/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/03/23/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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tsimonq2wxl, pleia2, daker: You were around for the last LoCo Portal Planning meeting, you around now for the meeting that's supposed to start in two minutes? :)20:58
tsimonq2#startmeeting LoCo Portal Planning Meeting21:00
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Mar 23 21:00:01 2016 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.21:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick21:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) | LoCo Portal Planning Meeting | Current
dakeryo21:00
tsimonq2hey daker :)21:00
tsimonq2so this is the second LoCo Portal planning meeting21:01
tsimonq2a little bit smaller than the last but I have some topics in mind21:01
tsimonq2even if it's just with daker, this will be valuable :)21:01
tsimonq2okay21:01
tsimonq2#topic Meeting Time21:01
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) | LoCo Portal Planning Meeting | Current
tsimonq2I sent out the reminder for this meeting a bit late, and daylight savings time messed things up again21:02
tsimonq2do we want to keep the time of 21 UTC or do we want to pull back to 20 UTC?21:02
tsimonq2daker: thoughts?21:02
daker21 is good21:03
dakerwell at least for me :)21:03
tsimonq2alright, I'll give until 21:05 for people to object, then we can move on :)21:03
tsimonq2so it seems that not many people are here21:05
superflyo/21:05
superflyI'm here :-)21:05
tsimonq2oh hello superfly :)21:05
tsimonq2daker: do you have the IS response nearby?21:05
tsimonq2#topic IS Response about the server21:06
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) | LoCo Portal Planning Meeting | Current
tsimonq2daker: I'm hunting it down now if you can't find it21:07
dakerhttps://paste.ubuntu.com/15482854/21:07
tsimonq2okay, cool, thanks daker :)21:08
dakerrecap : IS recommendation is to stick with 1.3.121:08
tsimonq2So I've read this a few times, here's my opinion21:09
tsimonq2I think that we test it and make sure it works on Trusty21:09
tsimonq2upgrade to Trusty21:09
superflyI agree with tsimonq221:09
tsimonq2then over the summer we test with Xenial and upgrade to Xenial21:09
dakertsimonq2: you can't upgrade :)21:09
tsimonq2well have IS do it21:09
tsimonq2daker: wait we can't upgrade releases?21:10
superflyalso, you can install Django, et al in a virtualenv, and then you don't need to worry about the version in Ubuntu21:10
tsimonq2^ good point21:10
dakertsimonq2: no, you can't just upgrade like that, the server was upgraded to precise in July 201521:11
dakerprecise :) 12.0421:11
tsimonq2daker: then what do we have to work with in that regard?21:11
tsimonq2Precise goes EOL next April, so we have about a year21:12
tsimonq2I would much rather do it sooner than later21:12
tsimonq2but we can only do what we can do :)21:12
dakerthe recommendation is to stick with 1.3.x if we want to stay like that21:12
tsimonq2daker: would it be possible to have IS upgrade the server to Trusty, or do we have to backport stuff?21:13
tewardtsimonq2: I would reread their email if I were you (apologies for appearing)21:13
dakerif we want to upgrade for Django for sure we need to write a juju charm21:13
tewardthe email as it is currently states this: For the moment, while the site is hosted on a precise server, I would recommend sticking with 1.3 and addressing problems exposed by the Ubuntu upgrade.   ...21:13
tewardwithout further knowledge, I'd interpret that to be "We don't want to upgrade this right now"21:14
dakerteward: yes21:14
tsimonq2ohhhhh I see21:14
tsimonq2sorry :)21:14
tewardand again, apologies for popping in, but I thought it would help to have the translation/interpretation made available :)21:14
dakerbecause they have planning on what to upgrades and when21:14
tewardtsimonq2: so, the email suggests:21:14
teward(1) sticking to precise21:15
tsimonq2totally okay teward :)21:15
teward(2) work with the existing system and resolve existing issues21:15
teward(3) possible-long-term: backport either trusty or xenial Django in a PPA, confirm it works, migrate site to that, show it works, and IS may consider using the PPA in that case21:15
tewardwhich is in the last paragraph of the email21:15
tewardwith the backport target being precise.21:16
tsimonq2well I see that, but I haven't been able to easily reproduce the server locally21:16
tsimonq2that's another problem I wanted to bring up21:16
tsimonq2it's a bit tricky21:16
tsimonq2knowing what cron jobs the server uses would be extremely useful21:16
dakertsimonq2: why ? it should work, we have fixed the issues21:16
dakertsimonq2: cronjob for the portal ?21:17
tsimonq2daker: well either the docs aren't there or the docs aren't obvious enough to locally set up a server with all of the functionality21:17
tsimonq2like, we can do the portal21:17
tsimonq2just stuff like the blog requires extra docs that I don't know about21:17
dakerok, i'll document that21:18
tsimonq2I think getting the cron jubs used on the server would be useful to document how it's updated21:18
tsimonq2*jobs21:18
tsimonq2okay, thank you daker :)21:18
tsimonq2daker: mind creating an actuion with meetingology?21:18
tsimonq2*action21:18
tsimonq2or I can do it :)21:19
dakeryou can do it for me :)21:19
tewardfyi: #action21:19
tsimonq2#action daker: better document local setup of the LoCo portal21:19
meetingologyACTION: daker: better document local setup of the LoCo portal21:19
tewardnow that'll show in the minutes21:19
tsimonq2knowing this would really speed up development, IMHO21:19
tsimonq2so I think that for now we can ensure it works, then when Xenial is released, imho, we should backport Django from Xenial21:21
tsimonq2daker: would that be reasonable to do?21:21
dakertsimonq2: i have absolutely no idea with packaging, and backporting means also handling security issues :)21:22
dakermy recommendation is to stick with 1.3 for now, deploy the cronjob fix21:23
dakerthen start writing a juju charm21:23
dakerwith the charm i guess that put the portal in a VM instead of the physical server21:24
tsimonq2so do you think the backport will be good at any point?21:24
tsimonq2or do you think that it will just give us more work?21:25
dakertsimonq2: i don't think so it will be good, it's a complicated work + packaging + handling django sec issues21:26
tsimonq2ahh okay21:26
tsimonq2so the current point we are at is to stick with 1.3.x, write a Juju charm for it, then make sure it works and maintain it?21:26
superflyWithout sounding like I'm harping on about the virtualenv... I reckon that using a virtualenv will be of more benefit in the long run. With a virtualenv you can set the version of Django that you're using. You're also isolating your version from the operating system, so that you can do things at your own pace if necessary.21:27
tsimonq2(just to make sure we are clear)21:27
superfly(and I'm presuming that you can do that in a Juju Charm too)21:27
tsimonq2superfly: but if we change Django versions, that's a whole other thing we need to support21:27
tsimonq2to clarify, Juju charms are justr for easy configuration21:27
tsimonq2*just21:28
tsimonq2(afair)21:28
superflytsimonq2: but you can change django versions when *you* want to, not when the operating system dictates21:28
tsimonq2I see21:28
tsimonq2daker: thoughts?21:28
tsimonq2teward: you have experience with packaging, feel free to interject at any point :)21:28
tewardsorry, was in the middle of something else for Server team21:29
* teward scrolls backwards21:29
dakersuperfly: i don't think IS likes handling stuff with virtualenv21:29
dakerif it was possible they will say it21:29
tsimonq2daker: could that question be asked?21:29
tewardtsimonq2: I would not be looking at the backport for now21:30
superflyThe biggest issue with backporting that you'll likely encounter is dependencies that you'd also have to backport21:30
dakertsimonq2: i'll ask if you want, even if the answer is clear21:30
tewardGiven that Precise EOLs in about a year, backporting will be a huge painful thing to do, as they suggested in the email may be a waste of time21:30
dakertsimonq2: they don't install modules from pypi only archive ;)21:30
dakerteward: +121:31
tewardfor all the reasons I have the same headaches with nginx in the Server side, or znc on my own third-party, having to adapt to the much older software in Precise21:31
tsimonq2ahh I see21:31
teward(especially ZNC, as I have to pull in the ubuntu-toolchain test repo to make that build for Precise)21:31
tsimonq2so should we continue to test to see if it works in Xenial and Trusty so when IS *does* upgrade, we have a plan?21:32
tewardtsimonq2: so, my recommendation would be to stick with 1.3, diagnose the cron issues, fix them as can be done, and not worry about the backport.21:32
tewardtsimonq2: correct.21:32
tsimonq2okay, we need regression tests then, if not already implemented21:32
tsimonq2that should be look at21:32
superflyThe age old tussel between devs and sysadmins...21:32
tsimonq2I'll make an action21:32
tsimonq2*looked21:32
tewardright, but note that IS alluded to this in their email - see lines 29 - 32 on your paste21:33
teward"Regarding the future of loco.ubuntu.com, I would recommend selecting an Ubuntu LTS release to target, ideally xenial (but trusty would be fine), porting the site to its supplied version of Django (1.8 or 1.6, depending) and writing a Juju charm or charms to deploy the new site."21:33
tewardrather than the backporting item, which they *suggest* may be a way around it, but they also suggest "waste of time" given Precise EOL date21:33
tsimonq2#action tsimonq2: Ensure regression tests are in place for the LoCo Portal21:33
meetingologyACTION: tsimonq2: Ensure regression tests are in place for the LoCo Portal21:33
superflySo basically get it working on Django-<version in xenial>, I think21:34
teward^ that21:34
tsimonq2!infor django xenial21:34
tewardtsimonq2: 1.821:34
tsimonq2!info django xenial21:34
ubottuPackage django does not exist in xenial21:34
tsimonq2lol21:34
teward!info python-django21:34
ubottupython-django (source: python-django): High-level Python web development framework (Python 2 version). In component main, is optional. Version 1.7.9-1ubuntu5.4 (wily), package size 952 kB, installed size 10793 kB21:34
teward!info python-django xenial21:34
ubottupython-django (source: python-django): High-level Python web development framework (Python 2 version). In component main, is optional. Version 1.8.7-1ubuntu4 (xenial), package size 842 kB, installed size 9075 kB21:34
tewardOr, from rmadison:21:34
teward python-django | 1.6.1-2           | trusty           | source, all21:35
teward python-django | 1.8.7-1ubuntu4    | xenial           | source, all21:35
tsimonq2okay, so we know what's going to happen going forward?21:35
teward(with other ubuntu spevcific changes in trusty-updates,-security)21:35
tsimonq2teward: or are you implying a different point here besides what's already been established?21:35
* tsimonq2 can't tell :)21:35
teward[2016-03-23 17:34:17] <superfly> So basically get it working on Django-<version in xenial>, I think21:36
tewardOR21:36
tewardDjango-<version in trusty>21:36
tewardIdeally, they want to put it on Xenial (read their email!), but would also settle for Trusty if need be21:36
tsimonq2so I think the priority would be Trusty because that's the next hop up, but Xenial is a priority as well :)21:37
superflyI'm not a Django person, but AFAIK, 1.8 is current-1, so that would be the best one to target21:37
tewardtsimonq2: let me rephrase: the IS team wants, ideally, to move to Xenial, not Trusty21:37
superflyI think both 1.6 and 1.7 are already put out to pasture21:37
tewardI would start by a port to Xenial's version, determine if it's feasible, and easily done21:37
tsimonq2mhm21:37
tsimonq2but I wouldn't forget Trusty21:38
tsimonq2I see what you are saying21:38
tsimonq2but just in case21:38
dakerso 1.8 is an LTS wich is good 1.6 is unsupported21:38
superflyI don't see the point of trusty. you're going to have a big jump, whether to move to trusty or xenial, I think it makes more sense to just jump to xenial. less effort21:38
tewardif not, then I would fall back to the version in Trusty, as a secondary solution21:39
tewardeither way there'll be headaches moving from (ancient) 1.3 to 1.6 (Trusty) or 1.8 (Xenial)21:39
tewardtsimonq2: start by targeting Xenial, though I doubt it'll be done until after Xenial releases.21:39
* teward makes a note to replace his wifi access point at a later time21:39
tewardwhat was my last message?21:39
tsimonq2superfly, teward: that's ultimately IS's decision, although we should prepare either way, let's consider Trusty and Xenial equal priority, just in case, although I get what you are saying :)21:39
tewardtsimonq2: i'd still target Xenial first (Django 1.8), before going to Trusty (Django 1.6)21:40
tewardthat's all :)21:40
dakertsimonq2: xenial21:40
tewardper IS's ideal situations21:40
daker1.6 is alreay outdated21:40
tewardindeed21:40
dakerand 1.8 is an LTS supported til 201821:40
tsimonq2alright, creating an action :)21:41
tewardalso note I don't know Django, so any part of that migration is not something I can assist with; though I'm happy to make suggestions and such when pinged for my input :)21:41
tsimonq2#action Ensure the LoCo Portal works with Xenial's version of Django21:41
meetingologyACTION: Ensure the LoCo Portal works with Xenial's version of Django21:41
tsimonq2so is that all we needed to talk about?21:42
tsimonq2#topic Misc.21:42
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) | LoCo Portal Planning Meeting | Current
tsimonq2I think we are good?21:42
dakerthe fix for the cronjob is here https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/loco-team-portal/fix.1542697/+merge/28958121:43
tsimonq2I saw :)21:43
* tsimonq2 is happy21:43
dakerand we are done ?21:44
tsimonq2I think so21:45
tsimonq2I'll leave this open until 22 UTC for people to jump in if desired21:45
tsimonq2if they are reading and don't understand something or have something to add :)21:45
* superfly has nothing further to say :-)21:45
tewardI don't think there's anything else, tsimonq2, perhaps #endmeeting is appropriate?21:51
teward(further points can be brought up outside the meeting if need be)21:51
tsimonq2#endmeeting21:54
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Mar 23 21:54:32 2016 UTC.21:54
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-23-21.00.moin.txt21:54
tsimonq2there :)21:54
tsimonq2thanks for your help teward :)21:54
tsimonq2and thanks again daker and superfly :)21:54
dakeryw21:55
tewardyep21:58
superflyyw21:59
=== teward changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology

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