[00:17] <bluesabre> evening all
[00:18] <bluesabre> knome: if you want to do the exception paperwork, I'll do the upload
[00:19] <bluesabre> flocculant: is that to say blueman is fixed?
[00:20] <bluesabre> ochosi: yup, crap png icon
[00:21] <bluesabre> ochosi: not sure about replacing the icons within ubuntu
[00:22] <knome> bluesabre, we still have a lot of time, but yeah, i can do that
[00:23] <bluesabre> knome: great
[00:24] <bluesabre> knome: how's it going?
[00:24] <knome> not too shabby
[00:25] <bluesabre> anything you need from me currently?
[00:26] <knome> don't think so
[00:27] <knome> well if you want to work on the cloud media player article...
[00:27] <knome> but i don't have a clear idea how to proceed with that
[00:27] <knome> or alternatively, if you want to start on the "other options" article
[00:30] <bluesabre> so, nothing immediately needed :)
[00:30] <knome> nope
[00:30] <bluesabre> I might work on a few bug fixes then
[00:30] <bluesabre> I see we got a few interesting submissions
[00:30] <knome> but time goes fast so before you notice, the deadlines are around the corner
[00:30] <bluesabre> yes
[00:30] <knome> i agree that it's better to work on bug fixes at the moment though
[00:30] <bluesabre> trying to do a better job of not losing track of time
[00:31] <knome> the burndown helps with that
[00:31] <bluesabre> yup
[00:32] <bluesabre> speaking of
[00:32] <knome> :D
[00:32] <bluesabre> should http://tracker.xubuntu.org/ redirect to dev?
[00:32] <knome> sooner or later, yes
[00:32] <bluesabre> ok
[00:32] <knome> i'll have to talk with pleia2 on how she wants to do it
[00:32] <knome> and that's the beginning of that conversation ^
[00:32] <bluesabre> :D
[00:33] <bluesabre> hi pleia2, glad we have at least one of you
[00:36] <knome> https://unsplash.com/photos/U9x5mG0pBiQ
[00:38] <bluesabre> that's nice looking
[00:39] <knome> yeah, if we want to propose some images from that site to the contest, then that might be a good candidate
[00:39] <knome> (i know ochosi already proposed one)
[00:49] <bluesabre> I wouldn't be opposed
[00:50] <bluesabre> we just have to be careful to not displace other community submissions with things we happen across
[00:50] <knome> i see nothing that stops from anybody sending anybody else's submissions
[01:15] <knome> another one i like: https://unsplash.com/photos/DMcI0cmYJYk
[01:31] <knome> bedtime, see you all later :)
[01:34] <pleia2> knome: since it's just us, I think we just drop t.x.o and do dev
[01:35] <pleia2> if someone wants to see it and doesn't know where it went, chances are they know who to ask :)
[07:30] <flocculant> bluesabre: no - that's to say it got reported upstream - but is still as annoying as ever
[07:37] <LibreSponge> flocculant: More reporting upstream is good - but how'doya do that ?
[07:37] <flocculant> find upstream's bug reporting mechanism - then report the bug :)
[07:38] <flocculant> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html#qa-bugs-upstream
[07:40] <dkessel> does http://contest.xubuntu.org/ redirect straight to http://xubuntu.org for anyone else?
[07:41] <flocculant> not for me 
[07:42] <dkessel> funny. well, from a VM it does, from another machine it does not
[07:49] <LibreSponge> dkessel: thought it was wpress thingy .. I don't wordpress so it's irrelevant to myself.
[07:54] <flocculant> dkessel: well vbox goes to contest site here
[07:56] <dkessel> maybe it is because i once was logged in to wp or launchpad or something
[07:58] <flocculant> *shrug*
[08:15] <flocculant> flexiondotorg: did you get mate to upgrade properly? 
[08:15] <flexiondotorg> From 15.10, yes.
[08:15] <flocculant> oh
[08:15] <flocculant> not awake - didn't notice which it was :p
[08:16] <flexiondotorg> I did try from 14.04 (unofficial) but my VM hung part way through.
[08:16] <flexiondotorg> I try that again today.
[08:16] <flocculant> flexiondotorg: of course you wouldn't have lts to lts - even more asleep :p
[08:17] <flocculant> flexiondotorg: yea - hangs - hard reboot - dpkg --configure -allofthethings :p
[09:50] <bluesabre> flocculant: gotcha, I'll see if I can fix it this weekend
[09:53] <ochosi> bluesabre: i know the suggestion to patch all packages in ubuntu is not ideal, however, even if i manage to update most of the crappy icons upstream, that'll take a while
[09:54] <bluesabre> ochosi: surprisingly, xfce4-notifyd is the only one that ships an icon too small
[10:00] <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, but still, the others are crap ;)
[13:07] <knome> pleia2, alright, i'll get that change done now and quickly mail the dev list
[13:07] <pleia2> knome: thanks
[13:13] <flocculant> bluesabre: might add a note to the release notes for all milestones from now on along the lines of 'The day after release - the image is out of date. Please use daily images.'
[13:14] <flocculant> might meaning unless you ask me not to - I'm going to :p
[13:14] <flocculant> hi knome pleia2 :)
[13:14] <knome> hello flocculant 
[13:27] <flocculant> knome: there might be ubuntu main release notes and bug listing - is the syntax <<Include(/path/to/the/notes#buglist)>> ?
[13:27] <knome> iirc, no
[13:28] <flocculant> ok - I'll dig it out from old notes if I need then
[13:28] <flocculant> bbl
[13:29] <knome> <<Include(QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/CommonInfrastructure, , from="^##StartQuantalReleaseNotesFeatures", to="##EndQuantalReleaseNotesFeatures")>>
[13:29] <knome> flocculant, ^
[13:29] <knome> so the included page needs to have some recognizable (comment) lines you can use with "from" and "to"
[13:30] <knome> unless you simply want to include the whole page, in which case the syntax you posted is fine (except that you shouldn't use a / at the beginning of the include path)
[13:33] <LibreSponge> knome, got the Y!ahoo eMail about moving from tracker to dev.xubuntu.org - You should've made more-demands in  an important eMail like that. Like checkout the dev. part of the wiki etc. But a good effort :)
[13:34] <knome> LibreSponge, hum?
[13:34] <LibreSponge> just sayin' got the eMail, is all.
[13:34] <knome> ..okay
[16:03] <flexiondotorg> flocculant, How goes Xubuntu testing?
[16:52] <ochosi_> bluesabre: i've contacted jeromeg about rerfeshing notifyd's icon upstream
[16:53] <ochosi_> bluesabre: i can meanwhile do something for ubuntu, so we can patch in the refreshed icon earlier than it lands upstream (i'm hoping he'll just be ok with it)
[18:00] <flocculant> flexiondotorg: as ever
[18:13] <flocculant> knome: thanks :)
[18:13] <flocculant> though given the hoohah in release I doubt they're be doing any release notes of any size :p
[18:14] <knome> :)
[18:42] <knome> ochosi, we should discuss who's eligible to vote anyway
[18:43] <ochosi> indeed
[18:43] <ochosi> how did we handle that last time?
[18:43] <ochosi> members of -team, right?
[18:43] <knome> you, me and pleia2 
[18:43] <knome> (artwork, marketing, project leads)
[18:43] <ochosi> ah ok
[18:43] <ochosi> i'm good with that too ;)
[18:43] <knome> hah
[18:44] <knome> flocculant has bringing up that we should let the community vote
[18:44] <knome> +been
[18:45] <ochosi> dunno, didn't feel like a good idea last time
[18:45] <ochosi> we can discuss it again though
[18:45] <knome> i don't have a strong opinion either way
[18:46] <ochosi> yeah
[18:46] <ochosi> i mean the system of "community-submitted team-picked" seemed to work ok last time
[18:47] <flocculant> worked as in 'we ended up with some images that 3 people picked' 
[18:47] <ochosi> dinner time, bbl
[18:47] <flocculant> ha ha ha 
[18:47] <knome> i think both ways have their pros and cons
[18:47] <flocculant> knome: what doesn't :p
[18:47] <knome> beer?
[18:48] <flocculant> that has pro's and con's :)
[18:48] <knome> hah
[18:48] <knome> anyway...
[18:48] <knome> sigh
[18:48] <knome> should debug the plugin
[18:48]  * flocculant is off into release note land once more - final time
[18:48] <flocculant> ish
[18:55] <knome> oh hah yeah
[18:55]  * knome facepalms
[19:06] <flocculant> knome: if you get 5 can you quickly check the release note for glaring errors - all that's left to remove is the DRAFT note at the top
[19:06] <flocculant> definitely added is the last paragraph above Known Issues - and the small Upgrade section (in known issues)
[19:23] <flocculant> knome: do we want the announce mail to link to wiki note or the site post? 
[19:23] <knome> that's a good question
[19:24] <knome> i guess we can't get both, so i'd probably go for website, as long as it has a link back to notes
[19:24] <flocculant> we only did last time because I wrote it :p
[19:24] <knome> hahah
[19:24] <flocculant> website links to release notes yep
[19:26] <flocculant> though if we're not sending people direct to release notes - maybe we should make it more obvious at the website that people should check them out
[19:26] <knome> yep
[19:29] <knome> flocculant, ok, i looked and did some format edits
[19:33] <flocculant> knome: to what? 
[19:33] <knome> flocculant, what did you ask me to look at??
[19:33] <knome> :)
[19:33] <flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta2/Xubuntu
[19:33] <flocculant> that
[19:33] <knome> yes, that
[19:33] <flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta2/Xubuntu?action=info
[19:34] <flocculant> what did you change then?
[19:34] <knome> yes
[19:34] <knome> shows four edits by me
[19:34] <knome> maybe you are hitting cache...
[19:34] <flocculant> yea ... 
[19:34] <knome> :)
[19:34] <knome> i'm not THAT silly
[19:36] <flocculant> :)
[19:37] <flocculant> anyway - I'm happy enough for us to link to website - as long as the release note reading before you try it gets more prominence somehow
[19:37] <knome> let's see..
[19:40] <knome> https://xubuntu.org/?p=3788&preview=true <-- better?
[19:42] <knome> ok, bbabl
[19:42] <flocculant> yea - better - maybe no need to url the notes twice though.
[19:42] <flocculant> cya later
[19:43] <knome> right, yeah
[19:43] <knome> in a normal situation the URL would be only mentioned once
[19:43] <knome> but maybe we can just link with "release notes" as the link text
[19:43]  * knome goes changes
[19:43] <knome> -s
[19:43] <knome> done
[19:44] <flocculant> ok thanks - when asked I'll link to there then
[19:44]  * knome bows
[19:44] <knome> (and ties)
[19:44] <knome> ttyl
[20:06] <wxl> flocculant, ochosi: please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta2 when you get a chance. thanks!
[20:12] <flocculant> wxl: all done
[20:12] <wxl> flocculant: thank you sir :)
[20:19] <ochosi> thanks flocculant :)
[20:21] <flocculant> ochosi: welcome :)
[21:09] <pavlushka> is there any specific channel for ubuntu translation support?
[21:09] <flocculant> can't get my head around the includes to ubuntu notes - so did it the simple way - just linked to it.
[21:10] <pavlushka> flocculant, are you talking to me??
[21:10] <flocculant> pavlushka: no
[21:10] <pavlushka> ok, ;)
[21:12] <pavlushka> btw, how are you, flocculant ?
[21:13] <pavlushka> flocculant, can you tell me, what is "Terve!"?
[21:13] <flocculant> pretty good thanks
[21:13] <flocculant> pavlushka: use google translate - I'd have to ... 
[21:14] <knome> "Hello!"
[21:14] <flocculant> hi
[21:14] <pavlushka> its from the ubiquity-slideshow translation., flocculant 
[21:14] <knome> you aren't supposed to translate those
[21:14] <pavlushka> Hi knome !!
[21:15] <flocculant> pavlushka: oh - as knome says - they are supposed to be in different languages
[21:15] <knome> i don't know why the notes aren't available there; maybe we need to make sure they aren't translated technically
[21:16] <pavlushka> knome, those means "Terve!"? or the slide show?
[21:16] <knome> they are greetings in different languages
[21:16] <knome> do not translate them
[21:16] <flocculant> bluesabre: so the wiki release notes got very long, very detailed, took ages ... thinking now of doing what Ubuntu do - not have milestone release notes - just a release note that we update during the cycle
[21:17] <pavlushka> got it, knome !
[21:25] <knome> ok, pushed a new revision in the main branch, and fixes the formatting too (ping: flocculant)
[21:26] <knome> apparently i had pushed that to a wrong branch before...
[21:32] <flocculant> knome: what are we talking about? 
[21:32] <knome> flocculant, the slideshow app slide not working... well it wasn't working as i didn't push the fix to the correct branch
[21:33] <flocculant> aah right - ok :)
[21:38] <bluesabre> evening all
[21:38] <knome> hullo
[21:39] <bluesabre> hey knome
[21:42] <flocculant> evening bluesabre :)
[21:43] <bluesabre> hey flocculant
[21:45] <flocculant> bluesabre: the wiki notes are complete now - all that will change between now and April is some updating as and when
[21:46] <bluesabre> flocculant: that's awesome
[22:25] <ochosi> evening all (again)
[22:26] <flocculant> hey ochosi :)
[22:31] <ochosi> flocculant: wanna briefly discuss your suggestion to let the community vote on the wallpaper submissions?
[22:32] <flocculant> ochosi: my point is basically - we should let them do so 
[22:32] <ochosi> ok
[22:32] <flocculant> discussed it a bit last night with knome 
[22:33] <ochosi> who are "they" though?
[22:33] <flocculant> -users
[22:33] <knome> anybody can now see the submissions at http://contest.xubuntu.org/submissions/
[22:34] <ochosi> ok, so at least a lp account and being part of the lp group then
[22:34] <flocculant> ochosi: but in short something like - they choose x from the pool, team choose y from the choices
[22:34] <flocculant> yea
[22:34] <flocculant> but then
[22:34] <flocculant> as was mooted last night
[22:34] <flocculant> if there's 150 submissions - nightmare to get them to vote 
[22:35] <ochosi> why?
[22:35] <knome> especially if it's a CIVS vote...
[22:35] <flocculant> depends on how
[22:35] <flocculant> ochosi: that ^^
[22:35] <flocculant> OR
[22:35] <ochosi> knome: what's a civs vote?
[22:35] <knome> http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/
[22:35] <knome> ochosi, basically, order of preference
[22:35] <flocculant> team chooses x - then community chooses from that smaller pool
[22:35] <knome> "Why rank choices? With CIVS, voters rank their choices rather than just picking their one favorite choice. Ranked-choice voting gives more accurate results because it collects more information from voters. It also helps avoid vote splitting and spoilers."
[22:36] <ochosi> yeah ok, so why is that a nightmare though?
[22:36] <knome> ochosi, because you could technically have 150 different ranks
[22:36] <bluesabre> I feel like the window is too small to allow the community to vote
[22:36] <flocculant> window? 
[22:36] <ochosi> knome: yeah, so what? we take the top 20
[22:36] <knome> and since the wallpapers aren't visible on the CIVS website, you technically need to have two tabs open at least, and it's hell to go back and forth
[22:36] <knome> ochosi, we were talking about "all"
[22:37] <bluesabre> the time frame we have between end of comp and gotta upload
[22:37] <knome> ochosi, if we pick top 20 for the community to vote, is it a community vote any more?
[22:37] <ochosi> knome: ok, going back and forth sounds terrible and like a no-go
[22:37] <knome> even doing the voting on the contest site with 150 submissiosn and users having to go through them all sounds like a no-go for me
[22:38] <ochosi> ok, if they can't vote through the website directly, it's a nightmare, i agree
[22:38] <knome> *i* will click either + or - 150 times, but i don't think many users would
[22:38] <ochosi> yeah, but 150 submissions is a nightmare for practically anyone
[22:38] <knome> yep.
[22:38] <flocculant> of course 
[22:38] <flocculant> we might have 30
[22:38] <ochosi> we can just limit the contest to the first 50 submissions ;D
[22:38] <knome> oh right
[22:38] <ochosi> wait, i meant (:
[22:39]  * knome submits 29 more quickly
[22:39] <knome> (:
[22:39] <ochosi> anyhoo, it would be great if we got such a big response, but i don't consider it very likely
[22:39] <ochosi> at least based on the previous contest
[22:39] <knome> ochosi, we currently have 21 submissions
[22:39] <knome> if it's at all in the same rate, we will end up with lots
[22:39] <ochosi> yeah, we had several in the previous one too, but like 70% of them were underwater shots
[22:40] <knome> that kind of proves there needs to be team moderation
[22:40] <knome> but if there is team moderation and users pick from moderated submissions, is it much different than the team just making the pick anyway?
[22:40] <flocculant> anyway - my point in general is that if we're a community flavour - we should give the community chance to do something
[22:40] <knome> ultimately, people can use any wallpaper they like
[22:41] <ochosi> flocculant: are we not by having a community contest?
[22:41] <knome> even the ones that didn't win the contest
[22:41] <ochosi> anybody in the community is free to contribute at any given time
[22:41] <flocculant> right
[22:41] <ochosi> so i don't see that as a strong selling point for who gets to vote
[22:41] <flocculant> anyway - I've said enough on this over the last couple of weeks
[22:42] <flocculant> I think we're wrong if we don't - nothing is going to be said which will change my mind on that
[22:42] <ochosi> right, i'm only readig about it now
[22:43] <ochosi> flocculant: srsly?
[22:43] <flocculant> seriously what? 
[22:43] <flocculant> not changing my mind? 
[22:44] <ochosi> yeah, well if there's nothing that would change your mind i guess all i could say is "thank you for your opinion, no need to further discuss with you"
[22:45] <ochosi> and i can't even say i've made up my mind yet
[22:45] <flocculant> no - not saying anyone has - I'm just saying that's my position :)
[22:46] <ochosi> maybe i was reading a passive-aggressive tone in your message that wasn't there
[22:46] <flocculant> nah not at all :)
[22:46] <flocculant> that's just my position is all :)
[22:46] <ochosi> okeydokey
[22:47] <flocculant> well release is looking like silly o'clock with a possible server respin
[22:48] <ochosi> well ok then, i can't say i've finally made up my mind yet, but for me the community contribution aspect is dealt with by having everyone submit whatever they want
[22:48] <knome> indeed, whatever they want :)
[22:48] <ochosi> whoever takes the pick of those submissions - i hope - would take their time with that
[22:48] <ochosi> (iirc it took us several hours last time)
[22:49] <knome> it will be faster now since there is no manual process involved
[22:49] <ochosi> (and by that i mean the discussions, not the individual sighting of the submissions)
[22:49] <knome> eg. everybody who is eligible to vote logs in to the site, and clicks + or - on each submission
[22:49] <knome> then we get the totals
[22:49] <ochosi> yeah
[22:49] <knome> at that point it's easy to fine-tune
[22:49] <ochosi> last time we actually discussed quite a bit
[22:49] <knome> yes
[22:49] <flocculant> and who is currently elgible to vote? 
[22:49] <flocculant> knome: ^^
[22:50] <ochosi> judging from the blog post it's -team
[22:50] <knome> flocculant, currently ~xubuntu-website but i can link any LP team to that by a few clicks
[22:50] <ochosi> or someone in team
[22:50] <knome> ^ technically
[22:50] <knome> if we want -users to vote, then i need to write a few lines of code and a few clicks
[22:50] <knome> (because we don't want to make users admins)
[22:50] <ochosi> good thinking!
[22:51] <ochosi> i dunno, personally i'm totally fine with a committee or some representatives of -team even to go and decide on this
[22:51] <ochosi> i don't even have to be part of that select group
[22:51] <ochosi> but anyway, the look and feel of xubuntu is currently in the hands of the artwork team
[22:52] <knome> letting all -team vote would mean more perspectives would likely be represented
[22:52] <ochosi> it's not really open to voting either
[22:52] <knome> (of course artwork/XPL has always a veto)
[22:52] <knome> ..not programming that in in the site
[22:53] <ochosi>  we can also vote on who gets to vote (:
[22:53] <knome> let's bury xubuntu in bureaucracy ;)
[22:53] <knome> (not)
[22:54] <knome> pleia2, as another old CC'er, what's your take on this?
[22:54] <flocculant> night all - if the beta get's released real late and no-one is about to publish I'll do it in the morning 
[22:55] <knome> flocculant, night and thanks for all the work so far :)
[22:55] <flocculant> if not - thanks who ever is awake to do it 
[22:57] <ochosi> flocculant: yup, thanks for the awesome work you did on the release notes!
[23:15] <pleia2> I wasn't paying attention
[23:15] <knome> again
[23:15] <pleia2> <3
[23:15] <knome> or during the whole CC term?
[23:15] <pleia2> for 6 years!
[23:15] <knome> yeah
[23:15] <pleia2> I like -team
[23:15] <knome> was discussion about who should vote for winners on the contest
[23:17] <pleia2> and I was serious about not voting because I submitted one
[23:17] <knome> you can just not vote on that
[23:17] <knome> soon everybody on the team is uneligible
[23:17] <pleia2> but I like it and want it to win :)
[23:17] <knome> you, me, ochosi, bluesabre, flocculant already
[23:17] <pleia2> hehe
[23:17] <knome> then vote for it
[23:17] <knome> i mean
[23:17] <knome> it's just one +1
[23:17] <knome> if nobody else likes it, it won't win anyway
[23:51] <bluesabre> hm?
[23:52] <knome> µw¿
[23:54] <bluesabre> :\
[23:58] <Unit193> bluesabre: Howdy.
[23:58] <knome> Unit193, or in other order, "Why do"
[23:58] <bluesabre> hey Unit193