[00:17] evening all [00:18] knome: if you want to do the exception paperwork, I'll do the upload [00:19] flocculant: is that to say blueman is fixed? [00:20] ochosi: yup, crap png icon [00:21] ochosi: not sure about replacing the icons within ubuntu [00:22] bluesabre, we still have a lot of time, but yeah, i can do that [00:23] knome: great [00:24] knome: how's it going? [00:24] not too shabby [00:25] anything you need from me currently? [00:26] don't think so [00:27] well if you want to work on the cloud media player article... [00:27] but i don't have a clear idea how to proceed with that [00:27] or alternatively, if you want to start on the "other options" article [00:30] so, nothing immediately needed :) [00:30] nope [00:30] I might work on a few bug fixes then [00:30] I see we got a few interesting submissions [00:30] but time goes fast so before you notice, the deadlines are around the corner [00:30] yes [00:30] i agree that it's better to work on bug fixes at the moment though [00:30] trying to do a better job of not losing track of time [00:31] the burndown helps with that [00:31] yup [00:32] speaking of [00:32] :D [00:32] should http://tracker.xubuntu.org/ redirect to dev? [00:32] sooner or later, yes [00:32] ok [00:32] i'll have to talk with pleia2 on how she wants to do it [00:32] and that's the beginning of that conversation ^ [00:32] :D [00:33] hi pleia2, glad we have at least one of you [00:36] https://unsplash.com/photos/U9x5mG0pBiQ [00:38] that's nice looking [00:39] yeah, if we want to propose some images from that site to the contest, then that might be a good candidate [00:39] (i know ochosi already proposed one) [00:49] I wouldn't be opposed [00:50] we just have to be careful to not displace other community submissions with things we happen across [00:50] i see nothing that stops from anybody sending anybody else's submissions [01:15] another one i like: https://unsplash.com/photos/DMcI0cmYJYk [01:31] bedtime, see you all later :) [01:34] knome: since it's just us, I think we just drop t.x.o and do dev [01:35] if someone wants to see it and doesn't know where it went, chances are they know who to ask :) [07:30] bluesabre: no - that's to say it got reported upstream - but is still as annoying as ever [07:37] flocculant: More reporting upstream is good - but how'doya do that ? [07:37] find upstream's bug reporting mechanism - then report the bug :) [07:38] http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html#qa-bugs-upstream [07:40] does http://contest.xubuntu.org/ redirect straight to http://xubuntu.org for anyone else? [07:41] not for me [07:42] funny. well, from a VM it does, from another machine it does not [07:49] dkessel: thought it was wpress thingy .. I don't wordpress so it's irrelevant to myself. [07:54] dkessel: well vbox goes to contest site here [07:56] maybe it is because i once was logged in to wp or launchpad or something [07:58] *shrug* [08:15] flexiondotorg: did you get mate to upgrade properly? [08:15] From 15.10, yes. [08:15] oh [08:15] not awake - didn't notice which it was :p [08:16] I did try from 14.04 (unofficial) but my VM hung part way through. [08:16] I try that again today. [08:16] flexiondotorg: of course you wouldn't have lts to lts - even more asleep :p [08:17] flexiondotorg: yea - hangs - hard reboot - dpkg --configure -allofthethings :p [09:50] flocculant: gotcha, I'll see if I can fix it this weekend [09:53] bluesabre: i know the suggestion to patch all packages in ubuntu is not ideal, however, even if i manage to update most of the crappy icons upstream, that'll take a while [09:54] ochosi: surprisingly, xfce4-notifyd is the only one that ships an icon too small [10:00] bluesabre: yeah, but still, the others are crap ;) [13:07] pleia2, alright, i'll get that change done now and quickly mail the dev list [13:07] knome: thanks [13:13] bluesabre: might add a note to the release notes for all milestones from now on along the lines of 'The day after release - the image is out of date. Please use daily images.' [13:14] might meaning unless you ask me not to - I'm going to :p [13:14] hi knome pleia2 :) [13:14] hello flocculant [13:27] knome: there might be ubuntu main release notes and bug listing - is the syntax <> ? [13:27] iirc, no [13:28] ok - I'll dig it out from old notes if I need then [13:28] bbl [13:29] <> [13:29] flocculant, ^ [13:29] so the included page needs to have some recognizable (comment) lines you can use with "from" and "to" [13:30] unless you simply want to include the whole page, in which case the syntax you posted is fine (except that you shouldn't use a / at the beginning of the include path) [13:33] knome, got the Y!ahoo eMail about moving from tracker to dev.xubuntu.org - You should've made more-demands in an important eMail like that. Like checkout the dev. part of the wiki etc. But a good effort :) [13:34] LibreSponge, hum? [13:34] just sayin' got the eMail, is all. [13:34] ..okay [16:03] flocculant, How goes Xubuntu testing? [16:52] bluesabre: i've contacted jeromeg about rerfeshing notifyd's icon upstream [16:53] bluesabre: i can meanwhile do something for ubuntu, so we can patch in the refreshed icon earlier than it lands upstream (i'm hoping he'll just be ok with it) === ochosi_ is now known as ochosi [18:00] flexiondotorg: as ever [18:13] knome: thanks :) [18:13] though given the hoohah in release I doubt they're be doing any release notes of any size :p [18:14] :) [18:42] ochosi, we should discuss who's eligible to vote anyway [18:43] indeed [18:43] how did we handle that last time? [18:43] members of -team, right? [18:43] you, me and pleia2 [18:43] (artwork, marketing, project leads) [18:43] ah ok [18:43] i'm good with that too ;) [18:43] hah [18:44] flocculant has bringing up that we should let the community vote [18:44] +been [18:45] dunno, didn't feel like a good idea last time [18:45] we can discuss it again though [18:45] i don't have a strong opinion either way [18:46] yeah [18:46] i mean the system of "community-submitted team-picked" seemed to work ok last time [18:47] worked as in 'we ended up with some images that 3 people picked' [18:47] dinner time, bbl [18:47] ha ha ha [18:47] i think both ways have their pros and cons [18:47] knome: what doesn't :p [18:47] beer? [18:48] that has pro's and con's :) [18:48] hah [18:48] anyway... [18:48] sigh [18:48] should debug the plugin [18:48] * flocculant is off into release note land once more - final time [18:48] ish [18:55] oh hah yeah [18:55] * knome facepalms [19:06] knome: if you get 5 can you quickly check the release note for glaring errors - all that's left to remove is the DRAFT note at the top [19:06] definitely added is the last paragraph above Known Issues - and the small Upgrade section (in known issues) [19:23] knome: do we want the announce mail to link to wiki note or the site post? [19:23] that's a good question [19:24] i guess we can't get both, so i'd probably go for website, as long as it has a link back to notes [19:24] we only did last time because I wrote it :p [19:24] hahah [19:24] website links to release notes yep [19:26] though if we're not sending people direct to release notes - maybe we should make it more obvious at the website that people should check them out [19:26] yep [19:29] flocculant, ok, i looked and did some format edits [19:33] knome: to what? [19:33] flocculant, what did you ask me to look at?? [19:33] :) [19:33] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta2/Xubuntu [19:33] that [19:33] yes, that [19:33] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta2/Xubuntu?action=info [19:34] what did you change then? [19:34] yes [19:34] shows four edits by me [19:34] maybe you are hitting cache... [19:34] yea ... [19:34] :) [19:34] i'm not THAT silly [19:36] :) [19:37] anyway - I'm happy enough for us to link to website - as long as the release note reading before you try it gets more prominence somehow [19:37] let's see.. [19:40] https://xubuntu.org/?p=3788&preview=true <-- better? [19:42] ok, bbabl [19:42] yea - better - maybe no need to url the notes twice though. [19:42] cya later [19:43] right, yeah [19:43] in a normal situation the URL would be only mentioned once [19:43] but maybe we can just link with "release notes" as the link text [19:43] * knome goes changes [19:43] -s [19:43] done [19:44] ok thanks - when asked I'll link to there then [19:44] * knome bows [19:44] (and ties) [19:44] ttyl [20:06] flocculant, ochosi: please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta2 when you get a chance. thanks! [20:12] wxl: all done [20:12] flocculant: thank you sir :) [20:19] thanks flocculant :) [20:21] ochosi: welcome :) [21:09] is there any specific channel for ubuntu translation support? [21:09] can't get my head around the includes to ubuntu notes - so did it the simple way - just linked to it. [21:10] flocculant, are you talking to me?? [21:10] pavlushka: no [21:10] ok, ;) [21:12] btw, how are you, flocculant ? [21:13] flocculant, can you tell me, what is "Terve!"? [21:13] pretty good thanks [21:13] pavlushka: use google translate - I'd have to ... [21:14] "Hello!" [21:14] hi [21:14] its from the ubiquity-slideshow translation., flocculant [21:14] you aren't supposed to translate those [21:14] Hi knome !! [21:15] pavlushka: oh - as knome says - they are supposed to be in different languages [21:15] i don't know why the notes aren't available there; maybe we need to make sure they aren't translated technically [21:16] knome, those means "Terve!"? or the slide show? [21:16] they are greetings in different languages [21:16] do not translate them [21:16] bluesabre: so the wiki release notes got very long, very detailed, took ages ... thinking now of doing what Ubuntu do - not have milestone release notes - just a release note that we update during the cycle [21:17] got it, knome ! [21:25] ok, pushed a new revision in the main branch, and fixes the formatting too (ping: flocculant) [21:26] apparently i had pushed that to a wrong branch before... [21:32] knome: what are we talking about? [21:32] flocculant, the slideshow app slide not working... well it wasn't working as i didn't push the fix to the correct branch [21:33] aah right - ok :) [21:38] evening all [21:38] hullo [21:39] hey knome [21:42] evening bluesabre :) [21:43] hey flocculant [21:45] bluesabre: the wiki notes are complete now - all that will change between now and April is some updating as and when [21:46] flocculant: that's awesome [22:25] evening all (again) [22:26] hey ochosi :) [22:31] flocculant: wanna briefly discuss your suggestion to let the community vote on the wallpaper submissions? [22:32] ochosi: my point is basically - we should let them do so [22:32] ok [22:32] discussed it a bit last night with knome [22:33] who are "they" though? [22:33] -users [22:33] anybody can now see the submissions at http://contest.xubuntu.org/submissions/ [22:34] ok, so at least a lp account and being part of the lp group then [22:34] ochosi: but in short something like - they choose x from the pool, team choose y from the choices [22:34] yea [22:34] but then [22:34] as was mooted last night [22:34] if there's 150 submissions - nightmare to get them to vote [22:35] why? [22:35] especially if it's a CIVS vote... [22:35] depends on how [22:35] ochosi: that ^^ [22:35] OR [22:35] knome: what's a civs vote? [22:35] http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/ [22:35] ochosi, basically, order of preference [22:35] team chooses x - then community chooses from that smaller pool [22:35] "Why rank choices? With CIVS, voters rank their choices rather than just picking their one favorite choice. Ranked-choice voting gives more accurate results because it collects more information from voters. It also helps avoid vote splitting and spoilers." [22:36] yeah ok, so why is that a nightmare though? [22:36] ochosi, because you could technically have 150 different ranks [22:36] I feel like the window is too small to allow the community to vote [22:36] window? [22:36] knome: yeah, so what? we take the top 20 [22:36] and since the wallpapers aren't visible on the CIVS website, you technically need to have two tabs open at least, and it's hell to go back and forth [22:36] ochosi, we were talking about "all" [22:37] the time frame we have between end of comp and gotta upload [22:37] ochosi, if we pick top 20 for the community to vote, is it a community vote any more? [22:37] knome: ok, going back and forth sounds terrible and like a no-go [22:37] even doing the voting on the contest site with 150 submissiosn and users having to go through them all sounds like a no-go for me [22:38] ok, if they can't vote through the website directly, it's a nightmare, i agree [22:38] *i* will click either + or - 150 times, but i don't think many users would [22:38] yeah, but 150 submissions is a nightmare for practically anyone [22:38] yep. [22:38] of course [22:38] we might have 30 [22:38] we can just limit the contest to the first 50 submissions ;D [22:38] oh right [22:38] wait, i meant (: [22:39] * knome submits 29 more quickly [22:39] (: [22:39] anyhoo, it would be great if we got such a big response, but i don't consider it very likely [22:39] at least based on the previous contest [22:39] ochosi, we currently have 21 submissions [22:39] if it's at all in the same rate, we will end up with lots [22:39] yeah, we had several in the previous one too, but like 70% of them were underwater shots [22:40] that kind of proves there needs to be team moderation [22:40] but if there is team moderation and users pick from moderated submissions, is it much different than the team just making the pick anyway? [22:40] anyway - my point in general is that if we're a community flavour - we should give the community chance to do something [22:40] ultimately, people can use any wallpaper they like [22:41] flocculant: are we not by having a community contest? [22:41] even the ones that didn't win the contest [22:41] anybody in the community is free to contribute at any given time [22:41] right [22:41] so i don't see that as a strong selling point for who gets to vote [22:41] anyway - I've said enough on this over the last couple of weeks [22:42] I think we're wrong if we don't - nothing is going to be said which will change my mind on that [22:42] right, i'm only readig about it now [22:43] flocculant: srsly? [22:43] seriously what? [22:43] not changing my mind? [22:44] yeah, well if there's nothing that would change your mind i guess all i could say is "thank you for your opinion, no need to further discuss with you" [22:45] and i can't even say i've made up my mind yet [22:45] no - not saying anyone has - I'm just saying that's my position :) [22:46] maybe i was reading a passive-aggressive tone in your message that wasn't there [22:46] nah not at all :) [22:46] that's just my position is all :) [22:46] okeydokey [22:47] well release is looking like silly o'clock with a possible server respin [22:48] well ok then, i can't say i've finally made up my mind yet, but for me the community contribution aspect is dealt with by having everyone submit whatever they want [22:48] indeed, whatever they want :) [22:48] whoever takes the pick of those submissions - i hope - would take their time with that [22:48] (iirc it took us several hours last time) [22:49] it will be faster now since there is no manual process involved [22:49] (and by that i mean the discussions, not the individual sighting of the submissions) [22:49] eg. everybody who is eligible to vote logs in to the site, and clicks + or - on each submission [22:49] then we get the totals [22:49] yeah [22:49] at that point it's easy to fine-tune [22:49] last time we actually discussed quite a bit [22:49] yes [22:49] and who is currently elgible to vote? [22:49] knome: ^^ [22:50] judging from the blog post it's -team [22:50] flocculant, currently ~xubuntu-website but i can link any LP team to that by a few clicks [22:50] or someone in team [22:50] ^ technically [22:50] if we want -users to vote, then i need to write a few lines of code and a few clicks [22:50] (because we don't want to make users admins) [22:50] good thinking! [22:51] i dunno, personally i'm totally fine with a committee or some representatives of -team even to go and decide on this [22:51] i don't even have to be part of that select group [22:51] but anyway, the look and feel of xubuntu is currently in the hands of the artwork team [22:52] letting all -team vote would mean more perspectives would likely be represented [22:52] it's not really open to voting either [22:52] (of course artwork/XPL has always a veto) [22:52] ..not programming that in in the site [22:53] we can also vote on who gets to vote (: [22:53] let's bury xubuntu in bureaucracy ;) [22:53] (not) [22:54] pleia2, as another old CC'er, what's your take on this? [22:54] night all - if the beta get's released real late and no-one is about to publish I'll do it in the morning [22:55] flocculant, night and thanks for all the work so far :) [22:55] if not - thanks who ever is awake to do it [22:57] flocculant: yup, thanks for the awesome work you did on the release notes! === davmor2 is now known as davmor2_HOLS [23:15] I wasn't paying attention [23:15] again [23:15] <3 [23:15] or during the whole CC term? [23:15] for 6 years! [23:15] yeah [23:15] I like -team [23:15] was discussion about who should vote for winners on the contest [23:17] and I was serious about not voting because I submitted one [23:17] you can just not vote on that [23:17] soon everybody on the team is uneligible [23:17] but I like it and want it to win :) [23:17] you, me, ochosi, bluesabre, flocculant already [23:17] hehe [23:17] then vote for it [23:17] i mean [23:17] it's just one +1 [23:17] if nobody else likes it, it won't win anyway [23:51] hm? [23:52] µw¿ [23:54] :\ [23:58] bluesabre: Howdy. [23:58] Unit193, or in other order, "Why do" [23:58] hey Unit193