| matv1 | just ordered the tablet. Very much looking forward to getting it down here :) | 00:43 |
|---|---|---|
| swalladge | can someone help me understand how ubuntu touch relates to ubuntu desktop? Is it the same base system, can I install normal desktop programs (ie libreoffice, firefox, terminal emulators, gvim, etc...), can you login to a different desktop environment, ? | 00:44 |
| matv1 | swalladge 'regular' Ubuntu desktop runs the Unity7 desktop environment up till now. Ubuntu touch is about the same codebase but with Unity8. | 00:50 |
| matv1 | the main difference is that they use different display servers | 00:51 |
| matv1 | Unity7 uses goodold X server | 00:51 |
| matv1 | Unity8 has Mir | 00:51 |
| EOBeav | Will 16.04 use Unity8? | 00:52 |
| matv1 | not by default no | 00:52 |
| matv1 | but you can choose to use it | 00:52 |
| EOBeav | Natively, or is that a hack? | 00:53 |
| matv1 | depends what you call a hack :) I wouldnt call it that. | 00:54 |
| EOBeav | lol, understood | 00:54 |
| EOBeav | A manipulation | 00:55 |
| matv1 | Unity8 will be the standard to come | 00:55 |
| matv1 | just not in 16.04 | 00:55 |
| EOBeav | I'd like to get ubuntu working on a Nexus for my next phone | 00:55 |
| matv1 | I got it running on my nexus 4. its quite an old phone but it runs really good | 00:56 |
| EOBeav | That means I should be able to pick one up for cheap, lol | 00:56 |
| EOBeav | Once you install ubuntu, do you have to go back and get it connected with your wireless provider? | 00:57 |
| matv1 | yeah actualy I have 2. both i got second hand well under a 100 euro's | 00:57 |
| matv1 | no it does that by itself. it just uses the info from the sim | 00:58 |
| matv1 | unless you some kind of weird contract where the sim is linked to the phone, but i have not heard of that happen | 00:59 |
| EOBeav | good to know | 01:01 |
| EOBeav | So once it's connected, ubuntu just gets the info from that | 01:01 |
| matv1 | yes. If you have a data contract, all you have to do is insert the sim, boot the phone | 01:02 |
| EOBeav | awesome | 01:03 |
| EOBeav | will have to look for one locally | 01:03 |
| matv1 | EOBeav cool! hope you like it | 01:04 |
| swalladge | matv1: cool | 01:21 |
| swalladge | so how does installing regular programs work? | 01:22 |
| swalladge | it looks like (based on my initial research) that the system is readonly or something | 01:22 |
| matv1 | unity8 you mean? yes the phone releases are readonly for the base system yes | 01:24 |
| matv1 | the next ota of ubuntu touch will have mir being able to run x-server dependent apps though | 01:25 |
| swalladge | ok | 01:26 |
| swalladge | so when they market firefox, dropbox, gimp, etc. (at http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features), are they installed like selfcontained apps or as deb packages like on desktop? | 01:27 |
| mcphail | swalladge: I think they're running in a hackish X11-on-Mir wrapper/container at present | 01:29 |
| matv1 | yes thats about it. But I am no mir unity8 expert myself | 01:31 |
| matv1 | but my understanding is that this way of wrapping x dependent apps in unity8 will be available to the user in just a couple of months | 01:32 |
| matv1 | so that means you would be able to use that method to wrap any x-app for use in unity8/mir | 01:32 |
| swalladge | nice | 01:33 |
| mcphail | swalladge: I think there are still some very rough edges, with regards to confinement and data sharing for X apps. I suspect the end result isn't going to feel as slick as an X app running on X | 01:34 |
| matv1 | swalladge yup I think so too. Thats probably why they dont ship unity 8 as default yet. | 01:37 |
| swalladge | how does one install these though? (if the system is readonly) | 01:37 |
| dobey | i wouldn't call it "hackish" | 01:38 |
| matv1 | same way one installs any app i guess. its just that the wrapper magic has to happen first | 01:38 |
| matv1 | ah i will leabe you to the expert now :) | 01:39 |
| matv1 | dobey is it best described as a fallback to x? or it is fully intergrated into mir now? | 01:41 |
| dobey | there is still some work to be done regarding installation and management of legacy apps on phone/tablet devices | 01:43 |
| mcphail | dobey: I suspect you think I mean "hackish" pejoratively, which isn't the case. But it isn't as integrated as a native Mir solution | 01:44 |
| dobey | i would say that it might be a slightly degraded experience than you would get with the same app on a traditional PC install of Ubuntu | 01:44 |
| dobey | but i wouldn't say it is hackish | 01:44 |
| dobey | mcphail: "hackish" is derogatory, regardless of how you personally intend it to mean. intentions are not definitions :) | 01:45 |
| mcphail | "hacking means exploring the limits of what is possible, in a spirit of playful cleverness" - RMS | 01:46 |
| dobey | good for RMS | 01:46 |
| dobey | RMS doesn't dictate what the expectations of humans are though | 01:46 |
| dobey | mcphail: between you and me, the term might be fine. but when describing the technology and level of support to persons who may not be as technologically inclined as we, such a term may be off-putting | 01:50 |
| dobey | swalladge: legacy (x11) apps are run in a container, and each within its own X server (Xmir), for security and such. there is currently an additonal scope and application for management of the container(s) and launching legacy applications, as i understand. as development continues though, various levels of integration and support will obvioulsy improve, of course | 01:53 |
| mcphail | dobey: perhaps, on a technology focused IRC channel, we should use the correct definition (as per RFC 1392) rather than the false one? | 01:53 |
| dobey | mcphail: i think we should avoid the term "hack" | 01:54 |
| dobey | or any terms related | 01:54 |
| mcphail | Fair enough | 01:54 |
| dobey | being a technology focuse channel, we are certainly capable of describing our features in a more precise manner than relegating them to non-descript vague terms such as "hack" | 01:55 |
| mcphail | Persoanlly, I think the term is apposite here. But it is very late, I still have a couple of hours of work to do before bed, and I don't want to have a silly argument. I'll concede :) | 01:57 |
| matv1 | I'm with mcphail :) | 02:00 |
| dobey | mcphail: well, i certainly am not trying to argue. just wanting to provide the best information possible regarding our devices, to those asking in here. :) | 02:00 |
| mariogrip | mhall119: ping | 02:07 |
| mariogrip | dobey: the n5 is the only device I might be upgrading to active, but since it missing bt i have waited | 02:07 |
| mariogrip | also manta | 02:08 |
| dobey | mariogrip: isn't bt the only thing missing on opo too? | 02:09 |
| mariogrip | dobey: no, voice call and headphones | 02:09 |
| dobey | oh | 02:10 |
| mariogrip | that will be fixed in 5.1, but that has some bad battery issues | 02:10 |
| mariogrip | (android 5.1 version) | 02:10 |
| dobey | sure | 02:10 |
| dobey | anyway, definitely time for me to slither off | 02:10 |
| mariogrip | I have to work late today, I have to clean up my todo list :P | 02:11 |
| matv1 | mariogrip you are probably aware that devices.ubports.com is down right :) ? | 02:14 |
| matv1 | just noticing | 02:14 |
| mariogrip | oh, im not, thanks for letting me know | 02:14 |
| matv1 | ok np | 02:15 |
| mariogrip | now it's back up, thanks matv1 :) | 02:17 |
| matv1 | awsum. thank you mariogrip | 02:18 |
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| tathhu | hello, what was that command to change touch-channel on the phone? | 07:27 |
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| peat-psuwit | What might wake a device from sleep? I'm experiencing wakeup every 1 second. | 12:04 |
| peat-psuwit | My own port, LG L90 | 12:04 |
| pmcgowan | peat-psuwit, does the syslog give any hit? the last time we saw this it was thermal events keeping the system awake | 12:17 |
| pmcgowan | hint | 12:17 |
| peat-psuwit | pmcgowan: I really can't find any clue in syslog. Most of time, all I see is seem-to-be-normal suspend follow by seem-to-be-normal resume kernel text. | 12:21 |
| pmcgowan | peat-psuwit, may need to instrument the kernel to see what device is doing it, ondra any ideas? | 12:22 |
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| mhall119 | mariogrip: pong | 12:54 |
| mariogrip | mhall119: have you got the fp device? | 12:54 |
| mariogrip | (the new fairphone device) | 12:57 |
| mhall119 | no, not yet | 12:57 |
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| ondra | peat-psuwit yeah as pmcgowan said, kernel log and try to get logs from powerd as well | 13:08 |
| ondra | peat-psuwit observer messages on dbus | 13:09 |
| peat-psuwit | ondra: I'm not sure what to look for. If it's powerd, I should see powerd's message between suspend and resume in syslog. | 13:16 |
| ogra_ | peat-psuwit, what makes you think that ? if you are suspended syslog logging is indeed suspended too | 13:16 |
| peat-psuwit | ogra_: But powerd is suspended too? Also, AFAIK syslog will pick up whatever it missed when resume. | 13:19 |
| ogra_ | everything is suspended | 13:19 |
| ondra | peat-psuwit run some tool gathering dbus logs, that will show you if something is poking powerd to stay awake | 13:19 |
| ogra_ | except the modem | 13:19 |
| peat-psuwit | ondra: Like, dbus-monitor? | 13:20 |
| ogra_ | (if the HW suspends hard, there is no way for anything to gather logs ... ) | 13:20 |
| ondra | peat-psuwit bustle-pcap is one I used before | 13:21 |
| ondra | ogra_ you will get dbus message once something is waking system up | 13:21 |
| ogra_ | and how would that be logged if the system is asleep ? | 13:22 |
| ondra | ogra_ usually something will wake system on interrupt, that then poke on dbus powerd is it wants to keep system running | 13:22 |
| ogra_ | (if you run dbus-monitor you prevent the sleep altogether ... if dbus wakes it up there wont b an rsyslog listening yet) | 13:22 |
| ogra_ | you might be able to get some logging from stdout from powerd in the upstart job log though | 13:23 |
| ondra | ogra_ sure you will not catch things which are just consumed by driver, so interrupt will not wake system to handle itself | 13:23 |
| ondra | ogra_ bustle-pcap should not prevent system from suspending | 13:24 |
| ogra_ | k | 13:24 |
| ondra | ogra_ at least I remember using it, so hope it still works right way | 13:24 |
| ondra | ogra_ but it's a bit pain to debug, since you need to make sure ssh does not keep system awake either | 13:25 |
| ogra_ | yeah, i remember that | 13:25 |
| ondra | ogra_ rsalveti is master debugging power issues | 13:26 |
| ogra_ | yeah | 13:26 |
| ogra_ | now he is master of running 96boards :) | 13:27 |
| ondra | ogra_ :) | 13:27 |
| ondra | ogra_ BTW where can I find u-d-f code, non xenial | 13:28 |
| ogra_ | lp:goget-ubuntu-touch ? | 13:29 |
| ondra | ogra_ yeah but that is xenial one | 13:30 |
| ogra_ | i dont think we have any other branch ... probably in UDD | 13:30 |
| ogra_ | https://code.launchpad.net/goget-ubuntu-touch ... there are a few other branches | 13:31 |
| ondra | ogra_ yeah but those fail when you do bzr branch | 13:34 |
| ondra | ogra_ those branches show just in LP web, but can't branch code | 13:35 |
| rsalveti | kernel log should say it all | 13:35 |
| ondra | ogra_ and trunk had dependencies to packages version which only exists in xenial | 13:35 |
| rsalveti | the time it was actually suspended (if any) | 13:35 |
| rsalveti | and if there was any subsystem or wakelock blocking it | 13:35 |
| rsalveti | ogra_: germany x italy today, should be an interesting game to watch | 13:36 |
| ogra_ | rsalveti, yeah ... germany england was rather disappointing ... lets see if we got better now | 13:36 |
| peat-psuwit | rsalveti: I really can't find anything useful in kernel log. Could you please have a look? It's 2 suspend-resume cycles happen about 2 second apart. http://paste.ubuntu.com/15551755/ | 13:42 |
| rsalveti | sure | 13:44 |
| rsalveti | [16042.723319] 16042.723319 / 03-29 13:27:19.245] MSM Apps Watchdog resumed. | 13:46 |
| rsalveti | yeah, doesn't say much, have syslog in hands? | 13:46 |
| rsalveti | in the past we had both missing configs (to enable a more verbose suspend process) and also code changes that were removing them | 13:46 |
| rsalveti | it's not even printing anything related to wakelocks | 13:47 |
| peat-psuwit | rsalveti: In syslog, all it has is kernel message posted above and nothing else. | 13:56 |
| rsalveti | peat-psuwit: hm, nothing from powerd? | 14:31 |
| rsalveti | might be good to change the power init script to run with debug | 14:31 |
| peat-psuwit | rsalveti: How, please? | 14:36 |
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| Pastaman | hey. any known issues when doing a first time install of ubuntu touch around now? I'm getting mystic lookup timeouts when trying to download the image via ubuntu-device-flash | 18:00 |
| dobey | Pastaman: helps to state which device, channel, and server, you are using | 18:08 |
| Pastaman | dobey: sorry, of course. but as expected, the error was on my end. firewall/NAT blocking the traffic | 18:09 |
| dobey | ok | 18:10 |
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