[00:43] just ordered the tablet. Very much looking forward to getting it down here :) [00:44] can someone help me understand how ubuntu touch relates to ubuntu desktop? Is it the same base system, can I install normal desktop programs (ie libreoffice, firefox, terminal emulators, gvim, etc...), can you login to a different desktop environment, ? [00:50] swalladge 'regular' Ubuntu desktop runs the Unity7 desktop environment up till now. Ubuntu touch is about the same codebase but with Unity8. [00:51] the main difference is that they use different display servers [00:51] Unity7 uses goodold X server [00:51] Unity8 has Mir [00:52] Will 16.04 use Unity8? [00:52] not by default no [00:52] but you can choose to use it [00:53] Natively, or is that a hack? [00:54] depends what you call a hack :) I wouldnt call it that. [00:54] lol, understood [00:55] A manipulation [00:55] Unity8 will be the standard to come [00:55] just not in 16.04 [00:55] I'd like to get ubuntu working on a Nexus for my next phone [00:56] I got it running on my nexus 4. its quite an old phone but it runs really good [00:56] That means I should be able to pick one up for cheap, lol [00:57] Once you install ubuntu, do you have to go back and get it connected with your wireless provider? [00:57] yeah actualy I have 2. both i got second hand well under a 100 euro's [00:58] no it does that by itself. it just uses the info from the sim [00:59] unless you some kind of weird contract where the sim is linked to the phone, but i have not heard of that happen [01:01] good to know [01:01] So once it's connected, ubuntu just gets the info from that [01:02] yes. If you have a data contract, all you have to do is insert the sim, boot the phone [01:03] awesome [01:03] will have to look for one locally [01:04] EOBeav cool! hope you like it [01:21] matv1: cool [01:22] so how does installing regular programs work? [01:22] it looks like (based on my initial research) that the system is readonly or something [01:24] unity8 you mean? yes the phone releases are readonly for the base system yes [01:25] the next ota of ubuntu touch will have mir being able to run x-server dependent apps though [01:26] ok [01:27] so when they market firefox, dropbox, gimp, etc. (at http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/features), are they installed like selfcontained apps or as deb packages like on desktop? [01:29] swalladge: I think they're running in a hackish X11-on-Mir wrapper/container at present [01:31] yes thats about it. But I am no mir unity8 expert myself [01:32] but my understanding is that this way of wrapping x dependent apps in unity8 will be available to the user in just a couple of months [01:32] so that means you would be able to use that method to wrap any x-app for use in unity8/mir [01:33] nice [01:34] swalladge: I think there are still some very rough edges, with regards to confinement and data sharing for X apps. I suspect the end result isn't going to feel as slick as an X app running on X [01:37] swalladge yup I think so too. Thats probably why they dont ship unity 8 as default yet. [01:37] how does one install these though? (if the system is readonly) [01:38] i wouldn't call it "hackish" [01:38] same way one installs any app i guess. its just that the wrapper magic has to happen first [01:39] ah i will leabe you to the expert now :) [01:41] dobey is it best described as a fallback to x? or it is fully intergrated into mir now? [01:43] there is still some work to be done regarding installation and management of legacy apps on phone/tablet devices [01:44] dobey: I suspect you think I mean "hackish" pejoratively, which isn't the case. But it isn't as integrated as a native Mir solution [01:44] i would say that it might be a slightly degraded experience than you would get with the same app on a traditional PC install of Ubuntu [01:44] but i wouldn't say it is hackish [01:45] mcphail: "hackish" is derogatory, regardless of how you personally intend it to mean. intentions are not definitions :) [01:46] "hacking means exploring the limits of what is possible, in a spirit of playful cleverness" - RMS [01:46] good for RMS [01:46] RMS doesn't dictate what the expectations of humans are though [01:50] mcphail: between you and me, the term might be fine. but when describing the technology and level of support to persons who may not be as technologically inclined as we, such a term may be off-putting [01:53] swalladge: legacy (x11) apps are run in a container, and each within its own X server (Xmir), for security and such. there is currently an additonal scope and application for management of the container(s) and launching legacy applications, as i understand. as development continues though, various levels of integration and support will obvioulsy improve, of course [01:53] dobey: perhaps, on a technology focused IRC channel, we should use the correct definition (as per RFC 1392) rather than the false one? [01:54] mcphail: i think we should avoid the term "hack" [01:54] or any terms related [01:54] Fair enough [01:55] being a technology focuse channel, we are certainly capable of describing our features in a more precise manner than relegating them to non-descript vague terms such as "hack" [01:57] Persoanlly, I think the term is apposite here. But it is very late, I still have a couple of hours of work to do before bed, and I don't want to have a silly argument. I'll concede :) [02:00] I'm with mcphail :) [02:00] mcphail: well, i certainly am not trying to argue. just wanting to provide the best information possible regarding our devices, to those asking in here. :) [02:07] mhall119: ping [02:07] dobey: the n5 is the only device I might be upgrading to active, but since it missing bt i have waited [02:08] also manta [02:09] mariogrip: isn't bt the only thing missing on opo too? [02:09] dobey: no, voice call and headphones [02:10] oh [02:10] that will be fixed in 5.1, but that has some bad battery issues [02:10] (android 5.1 version) [02:10] sure [02:10] anyway, definitely time for me to slither off [02:11] I have to work late today, I have to clean up my todo list :P [02:14] mariogrip you are probably aware that devices.ubports.com is down right :) ? [02:14] just noticing [02:14] oh, im not, thanks for letting me know [02:15] ok np [02:17] now it's back up, thanks matv1 :) [02:18] awsum. thank you mariogrip === ubuntu is now known as Guest40856 === Guest40856 is now known as knightwise [07:27] hello, what was that command to change touch-channel on the phone? === marcusto_ is now known as marcustomlinson === MCMiic is now known as MCMic === chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun === chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [12:04] What might wake a device from sleep? I'm experiencing wakeup every 1 second. [12:04] My own port, LG L90 [12:17] peat-psuwit, does the syslog give any hit? the last time we saw this it was thermal events keeping the system awake [12:17] hint [12:21] pmcgowan: I really can't find any clue in syslog. Most of time, all I see is seem-to-be-normal suspend follow by seem-to-be-normal resume kernel text. [12:22] peat-psuwit, may need to instrument the kernel to see what device is doing it, ondra any ideas? === lotuspsychje_ is now known as lotuspsychje [12:54] mariogrip: pong [12:54] mhall119: have you got the fp device? [12:57] (the new fairphone device) [12:57] no, not yet === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [13:08] peat-psuwit yeah as pmcgowan said, kernel log and try to get logs from powerd as well [13:09] peat-psuwit observer messages on dbus [13:16] ondra: I'm not sure what to look for. If it's powerd, I should see powerd's message between suspend and resume in syslog. [13:16] peat-psuwit, what makes you think that ? if you are suspended syslog logging is indeed suspended too [13:19] ogra_: But powerd is suspended too? Also, AFAIK syslog will pick up whatever it missed when resume. [13:19] everything is suspended [13:19] peat-psuwit run some tool gathering dbus logs, that will show you if something is poking powerd to stay awake [13:19] except the modem [13:20] ondra: Like, dbus-monitor? [13:20] (if the HW suspends hard, there is no way for anything to gather logs ... ) [13:21] peat-psuwit bustle-pcap is one I used before [13:21] ogra_ you will get dbus message once something is waking system up [13:22] and how would that be logged if the system is asleep ? [13:22] ogra_ usually something will wake system on interrupt, that then poke on dbus powerd is it wants to keep system running [13:22] (if you run dbus-monitor you prevent the sleep altogether ... if dbus wakes it up there wont b an rsyslog listening yet) [13:23] you might be able to get some logging from stdout from powerd in the upstart job log though [13:23] ogra_ sure you will not catch things which are just consumed by driver, so interrupt will not wake system to handle itself [13:24] ogra_ bustle-pcap should not prevent system from suspending [13:24] k [13:24] ogra_ at least I remember using it, so hope it still works right way [13:25] ogra_ but it's a bit pain to debug, since you need to make sure ssh does not keep system awake either [13:25] yeah, i remember that [13:26] ogra_ rsalveti is master debugging power issues [13:26] yeah [13:27] now he is master of running 96boards :) [13:27] ogra_ :) [13:28] ogra_ BTW where can I find u-d-f code, non xenial [13:29] lp:goget-ubuntu-touch ? [13:30] ogra_ yeah but that is xenial one [13:30] i dont think we have any other branch ... probably in UDD [13:31] https://code.launchpad.net/goget-ubuntu-touch ... there are a few other branches [13:34] ogra_ yeah but those fail when you do bzr branch [13:35] ogra_ those branches show just in LP web, but can't branch code [13:35] kernel log should say it all [13:35] ogra_ and trunk had dependencies to packages version which only exists in xenial [13:35] the time it was actually suspended (if any) [13:35] and if there was any subsystem or wakelock blocking it [13:36] ogra_: germany x italy today, should be an interesting game to watch [13:36] rsalveti, yeah ... germany england was rather disappointing ... lets see if we got better now [13:42] rsalveti: I really can't find anything useful in kernel log. Could you please have a look? It's 2 suspend-resume cycles happen about 2 second apart. http://paste.ubuntu.com/15551755/ [13:44] sure [13:46] [16042.723319] 16042.723319 / 03-29 13:27:19.245] MSM Apps Watchdog resumed. [13:46] yeah, doesn't say much, have syslog in hands? [13:46] in the past we had both missing configs (to enable a more verbose suspend process) and also code changes that were removing them [13:47] it's not even printing anything related to wakelocks [13:56] rsalveti: In syslog, all it has is kernel message posted above and nothing else. [14:31] peat-psuwit: hm, nothing from powerd? [14:31] might be good to change the power init script to run with debug [14:36] rsalveti: How, please? === JMulholland_ is now known as JMulholland === dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk === shuduo-afk is now known as shuduo === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader === marcusto_ is now known as marcustomlinson === chihchunl is now known as chihchun === Stskeepz is now known as Stskeeps === attente_ is now known as attente === alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD [18:00] hey. any known issues when doing a first time install of ubuntu touch around now? I'm getting mystic lookup timeouts when trying to download the image via ubuntu-device-flash [18:08] Pastaman: helps to state which device, channel, and server, you are using [18:09] dobey: sorry, of course. but as expected, the error was on my end. firewall/NAT blocking the traffic [18:10] ok === ndec_ is now known as ndec === dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader