[00:43] <lotuspsychje> !flavors
[00:43] <ubot5`> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE
[00:43] <lotuspsychje> !mate
[00:43] <ubot5`> Ubuntu MATE is a supported !flavor of Ubuntu that uses MATE as the default desktop environment. It functions similarly to older versions of GNOME. For more information, see https://ubuntu-mate.org/
[00:44] <lotuspsychje> dax: +1 nice
[00:52] <daftykins> shame flavour is spelt funny ;)
[00:53] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: where?
[00:54] <daftykins> just teasing the US spelling :)
[00:54] <lotuspsychje> :p
[01:39] <DaniKitten> Hello?
[01:39] <DaniKitten> Who is using Ubuntu Precise Pangolin in 12.04?
[01:41] <lotuspsychje> im on trusty
[01:41] <lotuspsychje> and xenial
[01:42] <daftykins> very few good cases to still be on 12.04
[01:42] <DaniKitten> On my PC, Precise Pangolin is faster than Trusty Tahr
[01:42] <daftykins> i doubt that, unless it's a really terrible netbook
[01:43] <daftykins> it can also be said that 14.04 can have one of 4 different kernels, which would change a lot
[01:43] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: did you test 14.04 clean on your machine, or upgrade?
[01:44] <DaniKitten> My PC is an HP Mini 2140, with 1 GB RAM
[01:44] <DaniKitten> I just did a fresh install
[01:44] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: with 1gig ram, i would go for xubuntu/lubuntu
[01:45] <DaniKitten> Lightweight... yeah sure...
[01:45] <DaniKitten> sarcasm
[01:45] <lotuspsychje> ?
[01:46] <DaniKitten> But, why I want to use lubuntu?
[01:46] <DaniKitten> or why I need to use Lubuntu or Xubuntu?
[01:47] <EriC^^> 1gb ram
[01:47] <EriC^^> of course it's slow
[01:47] <DaniKitten> As I experienced, lightweight does not mean "stable, good and supported"
[01:47] <EriC^^> you must be swapping like crazy
[01:47] <Bashing-om> low end video card .
[01:47] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: lubuntu and xubuntu are rocksolid as other flavors, what are you talking about?
[01:48] <DaniKitten> Puppy Linux
[01:48] <EriC^^> that's a joke distro
[01:48] <DaniKitten> And, if something is running well, I will not fix it
[01:48] <DaniKitten> Windows 3.11
[01:48] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: sooner or later 12.04 also goes eol, youl need an alternative
[01:49] <DaniKitten> A year is a lot of time
[01:49] <lotuspsychje> lol sure, your the boss of your machine
[01:50] <DaniKitten> If you want to receive a billion dollar on a year, you will think that 365 days are a lot
[01:50] <daftykins> yeah that sounds like a netbook
[01:50] <daftykins> those things should be given up on and disposed of
[01:50] <DaniKitten> Is a notebook
[01:50] <DaniKitten> search on google "HP Mini Notebook 2140"
[01:50] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:50] <DaniKitten> That's my PC
[01:50] <daftykins> i don't need to.
[01:50] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: we know what a mini is
[01:51] <daftykins> those all became dire on newer kernels, but had rubbish specs to begin with
[01:51] <DaniKitten> Yeah... sure... you know...
[01:51] <daftykins> is there a particular reason you're unwilling to hear the truth?
[01:52] <DaniKitten> And.. why the "best" operating systems needs more specs (like more hard disk, more RAM, an x64 PC...)?
[01:52] <DaniKitten> hahahahahahahahahaha
[01:52] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: its not ubuntu's fault you have 1 gig ram right?
[01:52] <DaniKitten> No
[01:52] <DaniKitten> The 14.04 yes
[01:52] <DaniKitten> the 12.04 no
[01:53] <EriC^^> unity and 1 gb ram won't play well
[01:53] <EriC^^> try xubuntu 14.04 maybe
[01:54] <DaniKitten> Yeah... burn another DVD and waste more cash for burning the DVD... I will do
[01:55] <EriC^^> usb?
[01:55] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:55] <DaniKitten> Or the easiest way: burn an SD card as a CD and don't waste money
[01:56] <DaniKitten> Then you will cry: the SD will be hard to format again as a writable SD card
[01:56]  * lotuspsychje already cries
[01:57] <daftykins> if a blank disc is a large amount of money then none of us 3 might be used to thinking along the lines of your concerns...
[01:57] <DaniKitten> I'll use DOS utilities for formatting properly the hard disk, and swapping from DOS to Ubuntu is slow (but not hard at all)
[01:57] <DaniKitten> Well, I'll try anyway...
[01:58] <daftykins> command line Linux is not DOS.
[01:58] <DaniKitten> No
[01:59] <DaniKitten> But I'll REALLY reboot my computer to a bootable floppy and format the SD card as a writable disk
[01:59] <DaniKitten> And the floppy disk will have MS-DOS 6.22 (the SD card is 2 GB)
[02:00] <EriC^^> lol
[02:00] <lotuspsychje> oO
[02:00] <DaniKitten> why?
[02:00] <daftykins> i think only #ubuntu takes the trollworthy chats
[02:00] <lotuspsychje> lol
[02:01] <DaniKitten> But OK, I'll try anyway the Xubuntu
[02:01] <lotuspsychje> yes
[02:01] <lotuspsychje> that wil rocknroll
[02:02] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: youl be supported till 2019, and if you like can upgrade to 16.04 in few weeks
[02:02] <lotuspsychje> win=win situation
[02:02] <DaniKitten> I don't have that network for rich boy, so the ISO image download will take me about 3 hours depending of the lenght
[02:02] <DaniKitten> the size
[02:03] <DaniKitten> My laptop download the files about 90 or 100 KBps
[02:03] <DaniKitten> No faster
[02:03] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: once you got xubuntu 14.04 your good for years
[02:03] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: only updates download
[02:04] <DaniKitten> Someone said me that I don't want to hear the trust
[02:04] <DaniKitten> That's false, 'cause I have Ubuntu
[02:04] <DaniKitten> If true, I'll have Windows
[02:05] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: hi
[02:05] <l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: http://www.tuxedocomputers.com/index.php
[02:05] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: tnx mate ill have a look
[02:05] <DaniKitten> But I don't have problems with Ubuntu 12.04
[02:06] <l4m8d4> I don't know if their site has an english translation though, so I hope you understand german :D
[02:06] <DaniKitten> So I will not download or update anything
[02:06] <DaniKitten> The games runs well, the system runs well, the PC is fast
[02:07] <lotuspsychje> DaniKitten: ok..then stay on 12.04 until it goes eol...
[02:07] <DaniKitten> I known a very very lightweight operating system
[02:07] <DaniKitten> Even the first PC in the world must run it
[02:07] <l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: /buffer 7
[02:08] <l4m8d4> darn weechat
[02:08] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: looks interesting site, but ppa adding isnt a good idea
[02:09] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: users can get in trouble by this, ending up with scrambled system
[02:09] <l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: I understand your concern with ppas... I tend to avoid them, too, if I can, but I read that the notebook seems to be like 2/3 of the runtime without the ppas, so I just kept them and didn't reinstall
[02:11] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: save your ppa link somewhere, and try 16.04 clean mate
[02:11] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: as Jordan_U suggest it will probably support you out of the box
[02:13] <l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: Well, don't you think it is enough to disable the ppas and upgrade? If not, why? I've upgraded my debian testing box for 4 years and it is still going fine, why shouldn't I use the builtin release upgrade of ubuntu?
[02:14] <l4m8d4> And with disable and upgrade I mean, disable and leave them disabled after the upgrade
[02:14] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: sure you cna upgrade, but i would suggest waiting for final
[02:14] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: in this stage, things might bork your system
[02:15] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: make out for yourself if you want the risk or not
[02:15] <l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: Ok, I can wait for final, but doing a clean install would take me several days at this point sadly
[02:16] <l4m8d4> lotuspsychje: It's not like it's a big risk anyway. If something goes wrong, I reset to my btrfs snapshot I did before upgrading and am fine
[02:16] <lotuspsychje> l4m8d4: ok
[02:19] <lotuspsychje> dax: http://ubottu.com/y/shortcuts results in blank page from !hotkeys
[07:23] <lotuspsychje> morning
[12:22] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:59] <Hesulan> Hi all! So, about that Ubuntu/Windows10 thing... (http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-and-canonical-partner-to-bring-ubuntu-to-windows-10/)... thoughts? Personally, I'm fascinated by the long-term implications, while curious about the details.
[14:01] <ikonia> details.....it's all in the details
[14:01] <ikonia> why release details when a headline grabbing press release will do
[14:17] <popey> heh
[14:17] <ikonia> what do you know popey
[14:17] <popey> nothing
[14:18] <ikonia> ......I don't believe you
[14:18] <popey> Honestly.
[14:18] <ikonia> I do believe you now
[14:18] <popey> The first I knew was the news article from sjvn last night
[14:18] <ikonia> I know you'd say "I can't say" if you knew
[14:18] <popey> Same for last year when we saw MS demo VS Code on Ubuntu at BUILD
[14:18] <popey> Yeah, way above my pay grade :)
[14:18] <ikonia> doesn't stike me as joined up though
[14:19] <popey> Yeah, triggered all the "Microsoft will buy Canonical" rumours again
[14:19] <popey> which all stemmed from one comment on reddit
[14:19] <popey> All smells a bit off :)
[14:20] <ikonia> I love that, here is some information, MICROSOFT BUY CANONICAL FACT !!!!
[14:31] <DArqueBishop> ikonia: looks like someone already released the trolls.
[14:32] <BluesKaj> heard those rumours about redhat years agop
[14:32] <BluesKaj> ago
[14:34] <baizon> wont happen
[14:35] <baizon> microsoft will never buy a linux company
[14:35] <BluesKaj> looks MS is gonna buy Yahoo, ...not a good investment iMO, but silce it up and sell off the useless peices a la Ikahn is probly what they'll do
[14:35] <baizon> why should they buy canonical?
[14:42] <popey> well, we'll soon find out http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-build-2016-watch-it-live-here/
[14:49] <hobbily> someone care to explain how this is a good idea http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-and-canonical-partner-to-bring-ubuntu-to-windows-10/
[14:49] <baizon> microsoft is the worse company ever
[14:49] <hobbily> is this a hostile takeover from microsoft ?
[14:50] <baizon> no its not
[14:50] <baizon> microsoft is taking an advantage like for everything
[14:50] <baizon> that they can steal
[14:50] <hobbily> uhh
[14:50] <DArqueBishop> If you think Microsoft is the worst company ever, you don't have much experience in the IT field.
[14:50] <hobbily> the article says that canonical is working with microsoft on this
[14:51] <hobbily> DArqueBishop: ive been a penetration tester for 5 years
[14:51] <baizon> wait, let me post something
[14:51] <hobbily> i have lots of experience in IT
[14:51] <hobbily> and security
[14:51] <hobbily> and i have burning hatred towards microsoft
[14:51] <hobbily> and ive been microsoft free for 10 years
[14:51] <baizon> http://techrights.org/2015/10/01/microsoft-loves-linux-brainwash/
[14:51] <baizon> there you go
[14:52] <DArqueBishop> If you don't like Microsoft, that's fine, but to consider them the "worst company ever" is serious unneeded and inaccurate hyperbole.
[14:52] <hobbily> when did i say its the worst company ever
[14:52] <DArqueBishop> You didn't.
[14:52] <DArqueBishop> baizon did.
[14:53] <hobbily> well its partly true they have built the biggest botnet in the world and they datamine everyone
[14:53] <hobbily> they are worse then google
[14:53] <hobbily> at least end users benefit from googles datamining
[14:54] <hobbily> i was offered a job as a seniour security engineere at microsoft and i told them to fuck off
[14:54] <hobbily> cause morals yo
[14:54] <baizon> omg working for microsoft, i would die i think :D
[14:54] <baizon> i mean i dont have windows anywhere :D work = linux, home = linux :D
[14:54] <hobbily> anyways i will never touch ubuntu again if this happens
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> afternoon to all
[14:55] <baizon> hobbily: well ubuntu is open source ;)
[14:55] <baizon> hi lotuspsychje
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> hey baizon
[14:55] <hobbily> baizon: no shit
[14:55] <hobbily> but doesnt mean its free
[14:55] <baizon> i would say this can only end bad for canonical, not m$
[14:55] <hobbily> and if it builds a relationship with ms
[14:55] <hobbily> then i will boycott all canonical
[14:55] <baizon> hehe
[14:56] <hobbily> canonical is being bought out by ms or something
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> hobbily: MS tries all kinds of stuff bacause they getting skared of linux
[14:56] <baizon> ok :) at least with linux we have choice, m$ forces everyone to use windows 10 :D
[14:56] <hobbily> this goes against everything that gnu/linux stands for
[14:56] <hobbily> im deeply concerned
[14:56] <hobbily> and offended
[14:56] <hobbily> and outraged
[14:56] <baizon> everyone @work is scared when they have to switch to windows 10
[14:56] <hobbily> all at once
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> hobbily: dont take this too seriously
[14:57] <hobbily> baizon: windows 10 is more invassive then the malware i write
[14:57] <hobbily> hook up a windows 10 vm and proxy its traffic during an install and sniff it
[14:58] <hobbily> you will see
[14:58] <baizon> i know :D
[14:58] <baizon> i laugh my ass off when i did read that news :D
[14:58] <DArqueBishop> "m$ forces everyone to use windows 10 :D"
[14:59] <DArqueBishop> M$! Oooh, how edgy.
[14:59] <baizon> Micro$oft
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> its like the real world, good vs evil
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> opensource vs payed malware
[15:00] <DArqueBishop> Yes, Microsoft is being pushy and underhanded in its attempts to upgrade people to Windows 10, but you can't exactly call it "forcing" when the upgrade system can be turned off.
[15:00] <baizon> i knew something was fishy when they announced that windows 10 will be free
[15:00] <baizon> DArqueBishop: yes, and then after every "security update" release they enable it again ;)
[15:00] <DArqueBishop> Then you can disable it.
[15:01] <DArqueBishop> Besides, the "free upgrade" runs out in a few months anyway.
[15:01] <baizon> but you dont know that if you dont read news sites that tell it
[15:01] <hobbily> fuck windows
[15:01] <hobbily> gross
[15:01] <lotuspsychje> !language | hobbily
[15:01] <ubot5`> hobbily: The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
[15:01] <tgm4883> windows should be free
[15:01] <hobbily> windows shouldnt exist
[15:01] <baizon> it will be free one way or the other
[15:01] <hobbily> imagine a world with no ms
[15:02] <hobbily> it would be peaceful
[15:02] <hobbily> and beautiful
[15:02] <baizon> hobbily: then there would be apple :D
[15:02] <tgm4883> doubtful
[15:02] <baizon> they will sue everyone and everything :D
[15:02] <hobbily> osx > windows
[15:02] <hobbily> at least osx is unix
[15:02] <DArqueBishop> Okay, so, there's no MS. Who becomes the leader in desktop software?
[15:02] <hobbily> based
[15:02] <tgm4883> osx < windows
[15:02] <hobbily> :S
[15:02] <hobbily> no
[15:03] <tgm4883> DArqueBishop: you're making the assumption there needs to be a leader
[15:03] <DArqueBishop> No, I'm making the assumption that there needs to be a standard.
[15:03] <hobbily> how can a unix based system that runs off a BSD kernel and network stack pail in comparison to the fatty POS that windows is
[15:03] <hobbily> osx > windows
[15:04] <tgm4883> DArqueBishop: standards can't be a "Who"
[15:04] <baizon> DArqueBishop: standard - yes, closed source standard - no. Best example is DirectX
[15:05] <DArqueBishop> Funny you should mention DirectX.
[15:06] <DArqueBishop> DirectX is one of those standards that's so successful not because Microsoft pushes it, but because the OS community literally doesn't have something that does the job better.
[15:07] <baizon> well, vulcan will try that i guess
[15:07] <tgm4883> DArqueBishop: well there was opengl
[15:07] <dax> !hotkeys
[15:07] <ubot5`> Keyboard shortcuts can be set in System -> Preferences -> Keyboard Shortcuts. If your multimedia keys don't work with that, try the 'keytouch' package, explained at http://keytouch.sourceforge.net/ - See !Keyboard for changing layouts. A list of keyboard shortcuts for Unity is available at http://ubottu.com/y/shortcuts
[15:07] <dax> hrm
[15:07] <baizon> DArqueBishop: how is M$ not pushing it? 95% market share, then they force directx for games.
[15:08] <DArqueBishop> baizon: I didn't say they didn't push it. I said it was successful because the OS community doesn't have a better option.
[15:08] <DArqueBishop> OpenGL doesn't count because graphics is only one part of what DirectX handles.
[15:10] <lotuspsychje> dax: should forward to this? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KeyboardShortcuts
[15:10] <DArqueBishop> Again, you may not like Microsoft, and that's okay. They're FAR from the worst company out there when it comes to IT, and even then they're far better now than they have been in the past.
[15:10] <dax> lotuspsychje: not sure, the ubottu.com URL forwarder doesn't know anything at all about a /shortcuts. I was looking at that page though yeah
[15:10] <DArqueBishop> Some of their offerings are even better than what the OS community provides.
[15:11] <hobbily> DArqueBishop: the only thing MS is useful for is active directory
[15:11] <hobbily> else it sucks at everything
[15:11] <hobbily> is bloated
[15:11] <hobbily> is backdoored
[15:11] <DArqueBishop> ... but if you seriously believe they're the worst company out there, then you don't have much experience with dealing with software companies. Compared with some software packages and companies, dealing with Microsoft is a breeze.
[15:12] <tgm4883> hobbily: wait, we're praising MS for active directory
[15:12]  * tgm4883 has seen everything now
[15:12] <hobbily> DArqueBishop: i deal with fortune 1000 companies including MS with security consulting
[15:12] <hobbily> i hate microsoft
[15:12] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[15:12] <hobbily> fortune 500/100
[15:12] <hobbily> ***
[15:12] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[15:13] <DArqueBishop> That's nice, hobbily.
[15:13] <tgm4883> active directory is like the textbook definition of "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"
[15:13] <hobbily> tgm4883: ldap on steriods, usually it creates nice attack surface but still some pretty sweet things can be done with gpo's to lock down end users
[15:13] <hobbily> thats all i think ms is good for
[15:13] <le_pig> lol
[15:14] <hobbily> everything else sucks
[15:14] <tgm4883> what about onenote?
[15:14] <dax> lotuspsychje: "To find (and change) system-level keyboard shortcuts, one can (at least in later, GNOME-based distros, e.g. ubuntu karmic)" oh boy
[15:14] <hobbily> office is shit, exchange is shit, iis is shit, every version of windows is shit, their company is shit, everything microsoft is invasive
[15:15] <tgm4883> I didn't specify office, I said onenote
[15:15] <dax> lotuspsychje: maybe https://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts ?
[15:15] <le_pig> i remember my first beer..
[15:15] <hobbily> onenote sucks
[15:15]  * DArqueBishop chuckles politely.
[15:15] <tgm4883> What about microsoft bob?
[15:15] <hobbily> sucks
[15:15] <hobbily> ms sucks
[15:15] <hobbily> everything ms
[15:15] <hobbily> needs to burn in a fire
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> hobbily: stop your swearing please
[15:15] <tgm4883> hobbily: you're pretty negative. I bet next you are going to tell me you also hate clippy
[15:15] <dax> lotuspsychje: or just say "hold down Windows/Super" or however it is you do it
[15:15] <DArqueBishop> Office and Exchange are other examples of products that MS produces than the OS community does not have a better equivalent.
[15:16] <le_pig> hobbily: since you appear to be stuck in 1997, the proper nomenclature is "M$"
[15:16] <dax> there's a factoid for that :3
[15:16] <tgm4883> le_pig: NO, we just got him off of that....
[15:16] <dax> (the m$ thing)
[15:16] <le_pig> oh dear
[15:16] <lotuspsychje> dax: yeah the page should link to all shortcuts
[15:17] <hobbily> i love how when i start stating facts about ms peolpe take shots at me
[15:17] <hobbily> "you're negative", "you appear to be stuck in 1997" "derp"
[15:17] <dax> i love how when people ignore our IRC guidelines and we tell them not to do that they get prissy about it
[15:18] <hobbily> im outraged by canonicals newly formed relationship with ms
[15:18] <DArqueBishop> hobbily: you're stating opinions, not facts.
[15:18] <hobbily> no
[15:18] <tgm4883> hobbily: You might want to learn the difference between opinion and fact
[15:18] <hobbily> facts
[15:18] <dax> by "newly formed relaitonship" do you mean Canonical doing stuff with Azure
[15:18] <BluesKaj> hobbily, it's not a necessary characteristic to hate MS to be a linux user and part of the community
[15:18] <dax> because if so, lol
[15:18] <nicomachus> whoa... this channel is hoppin.
[15:18] <EriC^^> i love how when you do a i love how sentence is sounds so epic
[15:18] <lotuspsychje> nicomachus: lol
[15:18] <EriC^^> *it
[15:18] <lotuspsychje> dax: think its about that article ubuntu goes to windows 10..
[15:19] <dax> i didn't actually bother reading scrollback, i should do that huh
[15:19] <tgm4883> nah
[15:19] <lotuspsychje> http://fossbytes.com/microsoft-canonical-bring-ubuntu-linux-on-windows-10/
[15:19] <dax> "According to sources at Canonical, Ubuntu Linux's parent company, and Microsoft, you'll soon be able to run Ubuntu on Windows 10."
[15:19] <hobbily> DArqueBishop: fact, windows has a bloated messy kernel with undocumented functions that are left over from NT days
[15:19] <dax> oh boy
[15:20] <hobbily> also yeah thats what i was refereing to
[15:20] <hobbily> >.>
[15:20] <DArqueBishop> BluesKaj: indeed. A good chunk of my current work involves Linux and my home servers run Linux, and overall I prefer Linux. Still, I have no great hate for Microsoft and as I've stated they do some things better than the OS community.
[15:20] <dax> so a Canonical Not Invented Here version of cygwin is going to be the downfall of humanity as we know it then
[15:20] <hobbily> the only thing ms does well is voilat their customers privacy
[15:20] <hobbily> and help the NSA
[15:20] <hobbily> spy and datamine
[15:21] <hobbily> violate *
[15:21] <nicomachus> !fud
[15:21] <ubot5`> Please do not fall prey to, or spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) - it is not welcome here!  Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
[15:22] <dax> lotuspsychje: I like http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=2209015&seqNum=3 too
[15:22] <BluesKaj> DArqueBishop, yes I used MS on th ejob for yrs before I discovered linux after retirement, but I still have W7 on a small partition on my laptop just for fun :-)
[15:23] <lotuspsychje> dax: seems nice!
[15:23] <hobbily> gross
[15:24] <dax> lotuspsychje: alrighty, done'd
[15:24] <tgm4883> well this has been fun, but I should get back to work
[15:24] <lotuspsychje> !hotkeys
[15:24] <ubot5`> Keyboard shortcuts can be set in System -> Preferences -> Keyboard Shortcuts. If your multimedia keys don't work with that, try the 'keytouch' package, explained at http://keytouch.sourceforge.net/ - See !Keyboard for changing layouts. A list of keyboard shortcuts for Unity is available at http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=2209015&seqNum=3
[15:24] <lotuspsychje> dax: tnx mate
[15:24] <dax> huh, ubot5 updates faster than i expected
[15:24] <dax> lotuspsychje: no problem, keep 'em coming :)
[15:25] <lotuspsychje> dax: allrighty :p
[15:25]  * DArqueBishop chuckles.
[15:25] <DArqueBishop> Methinks hobbily doth protest too much.
[15:25] <EriC^^> dax: you know there's a vulnerability in those bots sending from outside the channel?
[15:25] <DArqueBishop> And with that said, back to lurking. ;-)
[15:25] <dax> EriC^^: hrm?
[15:26] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what kind of?
[15:26] <EriC^^> ah
 wants you to know: Package this-is-a-flood does not exist in wily
[15:27] <EriC^^> did it work?
[15:27] <lotuspsychje> yes
[15:27] <nicomachus> 10:26 < ubot5`> <EriC^^> wants you to know: Package this-is-a-flood does not
[15:27] <nicomachus>                 exist in wily
[15:27] <nicomachus> line break caused some weird spacing.
[15:27] <EriC^^> somebody could use the bots to flood the channel from outside
[15:28] <dax> EriC^^: what's the /msg ubot5` line to cause that behavior? i'll forward it on
[15:28] <dax> or PM me, either way
[15:28] <lotuspsychje> yeah this channel is logged
[15:29] <EriC^^> so i shouldn't paste here?
[15:29] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: pm him, or #ubuntu-ops?
[15:29] <dax> #ubuntu-ops is logged too :s
[15:29] <lotuspsychje> oh right
[15:29] <lotuspsychje> my bad
[15:29] <dax> just PM me, I'll let the non-logged ops channel know
[15:29] <EriC^^> ok
[15:30] <dax> well, non-publicly-logged*
[15:30] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: nice find by the way
[15:32] <dax> indeed, thank you :)
[15:33] <EriC^^> sure
[15:33] <lotuspsychje> dax: lol, found another one: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins dead on !factoids
[15:34] <dax> lotuspsychje: yeah, that one's known. the wiki didn't make it last time ubottu.com migrated hosts
[15:34] <lotuspsychje> kk
[15:35] <ikonia> dax: is it backed up anywhere ? is there any move to get it back there was some useful stuff there
[15:36] <dax> ikonia: it's on archive.org :s
[15:36] <dax> but that's probably a Piciquestion, I have no idea
[15:39] <ikonia> just wondering out loud
[16:00] <tgm4883> there's a non-logged ops channel?
[16:00]  * tgm4883 envisions it's #ubuntu-black-ops
[16:27] <popey> ikonia: so now we know :) http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html
[16:56] <dax> tgm4883: yep, #ubuntu-ops-team. it's for stuff that probably shouldn't be public to the universe, but is logged for the community council's reference (and there are CC people in there)
[16:57] <daftykins> tgm4883: how else would they gang up so effectively ;)
[16:57] <ikonia> thats hardly "ubuntu"
[16:58] <ikonia> it's just gnu bash/coreutils being put into cmd.exe
[16:58] <dax> isn't that already a thing
[16:58] <ikonia> pretty ballsy to call it ubuntu's bash
[16:58] <daftykins> nope
[16:58] <ikonia> infact, I think thats pretty rude
[16:58] <daftykins> well if it's Canonical's build of the binaries, then it is Ubuntu's
[16:59] <dax> ohhhhhhh i see
[16:59] <ikonia> it's not like they have just picked up pre-compiled binaries and dropped them into cmd.exe
[16:59] <dax> "Cygwin includes open source utilities are recompiled from source to run natively in Windows.  Here, we're talking about bit-for-bit, checksum-for-checksum Ubuntu ELF binaries running directly in Windows."
[16:59] <dax> that's pretty dang sweet
[17:00] <ikonia> I'm not impressed and to be honest, a little bit dissapointed with canonicals marketing machine (once again)
[17:00] <daftykins> you might relax when you remember how niche this really is
[17:00] <ikonia> I'm not bothered, no need to relax
[17:00] <ikonia> just once again dissapointed with they canonical markets
[17:01] <dax> popey: Windows 10 only, I guess? Now I have a reason to upgrade the work machine from 7 to 10
[17:02] <ikonia> makes no sense to invest time in developing for 7 or 8
[17:02] <dax> oh, Windows Insider, so yeah 10
[17:03] <daftykins> i'd say wait for the next release
[17:03] <daftykins> although 'summer' is quite vague
[17:07] <ikonia> it could be another product that doesn't turn up after the marketing machine says how good it is
[17:08] <popey> wat
[17:09] <dax> okay well i think syscall translation on Windows for Linux syscalls is pretty freaking cool
[17:09] <popey> 17:58 < ikonia> it's just gnu bash/coreutils being put into cmd.exe
[17:09] <popey> no, it isn't
[17:09] <ikonia> popey: go on.....
[17:09] <daftykins> the article covered that already
[17:09] <dax> ikonia: it literally addresses this in the blogpost
[17:09] <popey> indeed
[17:09] <ikonia> let me re-read
[17:10] <dax> i literally quoted the relevant bit, actually
[17:10] <dax> 16:59 < dax> "Cygwin includes open source utilities are recompiled from source to run natively in Windows.  Here, we're talking about bit-for-bit, checksum-for-checksum Ubuntu ELF binaries running directly in Windows."
[17:10] <dax> or, to put it another way (which the article also does): it's the mirror of WINE
[17:11] <dax> if it were just bash.exe, I'd be crapping on it for being an NIH of cygwin. it's not.
[17:12] <ikonia> I see, so it's basically a compatability layer
[17:12] <popey> I can see other Linux distros being interested in this - well, some people from some distros.
[17:12] <popey> Yeah, reverse WINE is a better way to make it layman-speak
[17:12] <ikonia> popey: what are you thinking
[17:12] <popey> Well, on stage, saying "Canonical" and "Ubuntu" is good for us, of course, and good for MS, as there is brand recognition
[17:13] <popey> But I imagine there are some developers who use RH / Centos
[17:13] <ikonia> I don't see the point of it, and I don't see why this is being supported to be honest, but I'm interested in where you see this going
[17:13] <popey> and so might want to mirror that on their dev machines
[17:13] <popey> well, if you're not target market, you might not see the use
[17:13] <ikonia> what is the target market in your view ?
[17:13] <popey> But if you are a developer who frequently works on Linux boxes with Linux tools like bash / awk / sed / tee / perl / php
[17:13] <daftykins> ^ as a Windows desktop user but Linux server user, i can see benefits
[17:14] <popey> it might be nice to have the exact same builds on your laptop
[17:14] <popey> like, exact same
[17:14] <popey> not some windows builds which have some of the features compiled in, because they make sense on windows
[17:14] <popey> but bona fide, the real binaries
[17:14] <popey> Hell, I'd use it
[17:14] <popey> On a windows machine if someone said "make a script to do fu" I'd reboot
[17:14] <dax> on the flip side, this will make my linux dual-boot on my work computer redundant
[17:15] <popey> but now, I might consider opening notepad and hacking away with the first line being #!/bin/bash
[17:15] <ikonia> lets see how this plays out then
[17:15] <popey> which is new and interesting for some people
[17:15] <ikonia> I assume this will be opensourced
[17:15] <popey> dax: that's a possible downside yeah
[17:15] <dax> but when I drive to work in the morning I put on my "practical" hat and I'm currently there, so i'll go with "yay"
[17:15] <popey> upside from MS pov :)
[17:15] <ikonia> in the longer term
[17:15] <DArqueBishop> I have a friend whose primary desktop OS is Windows but does a crapload of Perl development for use on Linux servers. I can't imagine he wouldn't welcome this development.
[17:15] <popey> ikonia: what will be open sourced?
[17:15] <popey> they're the binaries from the archive, they're already open source
[17:15] <ikonia> popey: no the compatability layer app that dustin has built
[17:15] <popey> if you mean the subsystem on windows then you may be smoking crack
[17:16] <daftykins> XD
[17:16] <popey> because if you think microsoft is going to open source a core part of windows... well.. history tells us not
[17:16] <ikonia> is it possible to put other things into that subsystem
[17:16] <popey> we can but be hopeful
[17:16] <popey> "other things"?
[17:16] <ikonia> as you said, centos for example
[17:16] <popey> Dunno.
[17:16] <popey> I'm sure someone will figure that out
[17:16] <popey> The runtime stuff sits in your home directory
[17:16] <daftykins> well it's just another set of binaries to grab, looks like they all need some element of work since - "My beloved byobu, screen, and tmux don't quite work yet, but they're getting close!"
[17:17] <ikonia> be nice to see Dustins work and documentation on it
[17:17] <popey> Yeah, I imagine there's API calls that screen etc uses which don't translate well
[17:17] <popey> just like WINE!
[17:17] <popey> It doesn't completely work :)
[17:17] <ikonia> be very interesting to see where this goes
[17:17] <popey> Yeah, maybe one of those things that's niche, that only a few enthusiasts use. Who knows.
[17:17] <dax> and I'd expect it to improve quicker than WINE given that, you know, Microsoft's helping
[17:18] <popey> heh
[17:18] <ikonia> it maybe useful to move somthing else forward
[17:18] <dax> so that will be nice
[17:18] <ikonia> but look at what happened to the POSIX subsystem
[17:18] <ikonia> that didn't exactly get maintained
[17:27] <dax> lol, the twitter account for the MSFT person Dustin was working with is full of people replying with "is this the secret thing you were alluding to the other day???"
[17:28] <daftykins> subtle :>
[17:28] <dax> hrm, that's a good point someone brought up. i wonder how it'll deal with file permissions
[17:29] <dax> i guess some sort of mapping from NTFS permissions to/from unix mode bits
[17:29] <EriC^^> interesting stuff
[17:30] <daftykins> i would think there's a lot that doesn't go both ways
[17:30] <daftykins> (file ownership and permissions wise)
[17:30] <dax> NTFS permissions are a lot more complicated than mode bits, so yeah
[17:30] <daftykins> *nod*
[17:30] <dax> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ is microsoft guy's blog. it's linked from dustin's, but the link there goes to the actual blog entry which isn't loading for me for some reason
[17:30] <EriC^^> it's pretty huge as a project
[17:31] <EriC^^> when will it be done?
[17:32] <daftykins> that link doesn't even work for me right now in any timely fashion, must be getting hammered :)
[17:33] <dax> the blog entry URL ends in .aspx, i found the problem :3
[17:34] <daftykins> things i'm glad i don't look after - #1
[17:37] <lotuspsychje> becomming world news :p http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/03/microsoft-brings-ubuntu-to-windows-10
[17:38] <DaniKitten> Hello
[17:38]  * lotuspsychje hides
[17:39]  * DaniKitten finds lotuspsychje 
[17:39] <dax> "First things first: breathe through your nose and out through your mouth. Don’t assume that this partnership is a portent of impending apocalypse."
[17:39] <dax> should have linked this to that one guy earlier
[17:39] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[17:39] <dax> except then we'd get to find out that omgubuntu is an inside job
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> lol
[17:42] <dax> ...
[17:42] <dax> ...
[17:42] <dax> if I use this, wouldn't that mean the FSF-compliant term for my OS would be GNU/Windows
[17:42] <DArqueBishop> No, it'd be GNU/Linux/MS/Windows.
[17:44] <dax> popey: my favorite uninformed reddit comment thusfar: "This is an attack on SteamOS and Valve."
[17:44] <lotuspsychje> lsb_release -a Description:	Windows 10.04.4 LTS
[17:52] <HamRadio> So what do you guys think of Canonical teaming up with Microsoft?
[17:53] <HamRadio> Putting ubuntu on top of windows 10?
[17:53] <EriC^^> illuminati confirmed
[17:53] <EriC^^> j/k
[17:54] <HamRadio> I'm not convinced it's a good thing
[17:55] <HamRadio> Ubuntu remains open-source, but the technology to be able to run ubuntu on top of windows 10 remains proprietary
[17:56] <popey> dax: haha
[17:56] <popey> the whole of windows is already proprietary!
[17:56] <HamRadio> Hi popey!
[17:56] <popey> what's one more dll :)
[18:30] <dax> looking at the bigger picture, I wonder if the target from Microsoft's point of view is developers who went with OS X instead of Windows because of the command-line tooling available in OS X
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> that would make sense
[18:31] <daftykins> probably, i often hear that as a dev argument to go mac - seems really weak though
[18:34] <lotuspsychje> dax: do we still recommend this one: !brokenflash ?
[18:34] <lotuspsychje> !brokenflash
[18:34] <ubot5`> The Flash plugin installation has been broken for some time. A fix has been released now. If the update fails to install Flash, try « sudo apt-get --purge remove flashplugin-nonfree ; sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree »
[18:34] <dax> !-brokenflash
[18:34] <ubot5`> brokenflash is <alias> flashissues - added by LjL on 2007-12-22 17:38:21
[18:34] <dax> lol
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:35] <dax> !info flashplugin-nonfree trusty
[18:35] <ubot5`> Package flashplugin-nonfree does not exist in trusty
[18:35] <dax> !forget brokenflash
[18:35] <dax> gdi
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[18:35] <dax> !-flashissues
[18:35] <ubot5`> flashissues aliases: flashissue - added by Mez on 2007-12-12 14:23:16 - last edited by LjL on 2008-02-24 03:21:43
[18:36] <dax> k, all dead
[18:36] <lotuspsychje> great
[18:37] <lotuspsychje> we have pepperflash, freshplayer plugin and html5 online anyway now
[18:37] <dax> there's flashplugin-installer, but meh. i'm pretty sure the problem we were using that command to fix isn't a problem for a while now anyway
[18:38] <EriC^^> does ubot5` have any easter eggs?
[18:38] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:38] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: we have cookies :p
[18:38] <dax> ubottu: moo-#ubuntu-offtopic
[18:38] <dax> ubot5`: : moo-#ubuntu-offtopic
[18:38] <ubot5`> There are no easter eggs in this bot.
[18:39] <dax> for some reason my brain just cannot keep straight that we have different ubots for different channels
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> well its doing a great job anyways
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> saves a lot of work for volunteers
[18:42] <EriC^^> !fan
[18:42] <ubot5`> fan is Control the fan  on/off  http://www.ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-12058.html
[18:42] <EriC^^> that needs updating
[18:42] <dax> okay that's gotta be ancient
[18:42] <dax> !-fan
[18:42] <ubot5`> fan has no aliases - added by ompaul on 2006-09-16 19:18:29
[18:43] <dax> 10 years!
[18:43] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> found one relevant for todays article :p
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> !windows
[18:44] <ubot5`> For discussion on Microsoft software, or help with same, please visit ##windows. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and /msg ubot5` equivalents
[18:44] <dax> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SensorInstallHowto I guess?
[18:44] <dax> !search sensor
[18:44] <ubot5`> Found: sensors@lm-sensors, testing, lmsensors@sensors, lm-sensors
[18:44] <dax> !lm-sensors
[18:44] <ubot5`> To access CPU temperature sensors and detect fan speeds, install the lm-sensors package. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SensorInstallHowto for installation and usage instructions.
[18:44] <dax> oh sweet
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> dax: yes, lmsensors is right
[18:45] <dax> !-lm-sensors
[18:45] <ubot5`> lm-sensors aliases: sensors - added by jrib on 2007-09-27 03:50:30 - last edited by jussi01 on 2009-03-12 10:20:42
[18:45] <dax> k, changed fan to an alias of ^
[18:46] <lotuspsychje> great
[18:47] <lotuspsychje> dax: bad domain on tux url on !fstab
[18:47] <daftykins> !amd
[18:47] <ubot5`> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
[18:48] <lotuspsychje> !fstab
[18:48] <ubot5`> The /etc/fstab file indicates how drive partitions are to be used or otherwise integrated into the file system. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab and http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/fstab.html and !Partitions
[18:48] <daftykins> glad that got added, however my suggested text was ignored - so we're still many years out of date calling them "Ati" cards
[18:48] <lotuspsychje> i still got an ati card :p
[18:48] <daftykins> ;)
[18:48] <daftykins> AMD :P
[18:49] <dax> lotuspsychje: looks like http://www.pclosmag.com/html/Issues/200709/page07.html is a mirror of the tuxfiles document, changing
[18:49] <daftykins> some journalists are even beginning to call them RTG now, for Radeon Technology Group
[18:49] <dax> !-amd
[18:49] <ubot5`> amd is <alias> ati - added by knome on 2015-08-03 19:17:31
[18:50] <dax> !-ati
[18:50] <ubot5`> ati is <alias> binarydriver - added by apokryphos on 2006-06-18 00:21:15
[18:50] <dax> jeez
[18:50] <dax> !-binarydriver
[18:50] <ubot5`> binarydriver aliases: nvidia, ati, fglrx, binarydrivers, binarydrivershowto, gatos, nv - added by Seveas on 2006-07-16 15:07:36 - last edited by ikonia on 2011-03-24 11:18:46
[18:50] <dax> daftykins: done: !binarydriver =~ s/Ati/AMD/
[18:50] <daftykins> i did bring up a lot of factoids once in -ops but it wasn't clear who could edit them, nor who actually wanted to
[18:51] <dax> bbiab, going back to work and I think I have a meeting
[18:52] <lotuspsychje> kk
[18:57] <lotuspsychje> dax: xs4all url dead on !undelete
[18:58] <dax> woo, meeting is an audioconference i just have to listen to
[18:59] <lotuspsychje> finding a treasure on very usefull triggers to use, i didnt know yet :p
[19:00] <dax> ugh, googled a sentence from the archive.org version of the xs4all URL and getting a bunch of blogspam
[19:00] <dax> https://web.archive.org/web/20110714020437/http://carlo17.home.xs4all.nl/howto/undelete_ext3.html
[19:00] <EriC^^> i wonder if there's a way to get the bot to ran arbitrary commands
[19:00] <dax> i think the scope there's a bit outside of #ubuntu tbh
[19:01] <dax> people in there *probably* don't care about the datastructure of ext3 superblocks
[19:01]  * EriC^^ tried a few times, to be honest :P
[19:01] <lotuspsychje> dax: we have photorec to recover stuff
[19:02] <dax> !search photorec
[19:02] <ubot5`> None found
[19:02] <dax> :[
[19:02] <lotuspsychje> !info testdisk
[19:02] <ubot5`> testdisk (source: testdisk): Partition scanner and disk recovery tool, and PhotoRec file recovery tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 6.14-3build2 (wily), package size 343 kB, installed size 1382 kB
[19:02] <dax> !search testdisk
[19:02] <lotuspsychje> photorec is inside testdisk
[19:02] <dax> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery looks promising
[19:02] <dax> !search DataRecovery
[19:02] <ubot5`> Found: undelete
[19:03] <dax> oh duh i skipped right over that when i was looking at that factoid
[19:03] <lotuspsychje> :p
[19:03] <lotuspsychje> dax: rute url dead on !docs
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> !docs
[19:04] <ubot5`> documentation is to be found at http://help.ubuntu.com and http://wiki.ubuntu.com - General linux documentation: http://www.tldp.org - http://rute.2038bug.com
[19:04] <dax> maybe just delete everything after that first URL on !undelete
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> dax: sure
[19:05] <dax> done
[19:05] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[19:07] <EriC^^> i almost thought i had it
[19:08] <dax> lotuspsychje: rute link fixed: !documentation =~ s,http://rute.2038bug.com,https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/95-799/rute.pdf,
[19:08] <lotuspsychje> dax: great
[19:08] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: had what mate?
[19:08] <dax> shell access I assume
[19:08] <EriC^^> sending a superlong string to ubot5` as a message to nickserv, <EriC^^> wants you to know: package very long string here..
[19:08] <EriC^^> i was hoping it would continue the rest of the string on a new line
[19:09] <EriC^^> so you could feed it any nickserv/chanserv command that it would run
[19:09] <EriC^^> it doesn't continue the line though, just stops in the middle of it
[19:10] <EriC^^> oh i think mine stopped and made it into 2 lines
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> dax: do we still need !classic ?
[19:11] <dax> reminds me, i was gonna see if the gnome fallback instructions are still right
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> dax: if im correct gnome fallback is just on ubuntu-gnome now?
[19:13] <dax> i mean personally if someone wanted old-style GNOME stuff i'd be pointing them at MATE instead of gnome fallback these days
[19:14] <lotuspsychje> good idea
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> !sorry
[19:15] <ubot5`> It's ok, I am only a bot so I cannot stay mad at you. For apologising to humans though, take a read of http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/07/20/on-apologies/
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> lollllll
[19:16] <dax> !-sorry
[19:16] <ubot5`> sorry has no aliases - added by Amaranth on 2007-08-10 23:05:06 - last edited by elky on 2009-07-27 10:07:37
[19:17] <lotuspsychje> never saw that1
[19:20] <lotuspsychje> dax: link dead on !icons
[19:20] <lotuspsychje> !icons
[19:20] <ubot5`> Want to see volume/trash icons on the desktop? Go to /apps/nautilus/desktop in gconf-editor (GNOME) or go to http://kudos.berlios.de/kf/kisimlar/tipsntrix.html#showtrash (KDE)
[19:22] <lotuspsychje> dax: link dead on !defrag
[19:23] <dax> i'd be suspicious that !icons is out of date anyway
[19:23] <dax> i don't use gnome but i'd expect nautilus to not be on gconf any more
[19:24] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[19:25] <dax> for defrag, perhaps !no, defrag is <reply> The default Ubuntu filesystem (ext4) is engineered to avoid fragmentation issues in most cases. However, there is an online defragmentation tool available if needed. For more information, see `man e4defrag`
[19:25] <lotuspsychje> ok
[19:25] <lotuspsychje> enough for today mate, sleep time :p
[19:26] <lotuspsychje> tnx for the adjusting
[19:26] <lotuspsychje> and nite nite to all
[21:11] <Bashing-om> !utopic
[21:11] <ubot5`> Ubuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) was the 21st release of Ubuntu.  Support ended on July 23rd, 2015. See !eol, !upgrade and http://ubottu.com/y/utopic