[00:12] <terran> Hello?
[00:12] <daftykins> hi
[00:12] <terran> anybody out there? Oh, hello
[00:13] <daftykins> mornin'
[00:13] <terran> oh god, it IS the morning, lost track of time
[00:16] <m0nkey_> Monster hunter: http://imgur.com/0yYhBru
[00:17] <daftykins> digging the Cookie Monster's new hairdo
[00:22] <terran> did she kill the cookie monster and wear its skin!?
[00:23] <daftykins> yes ;_;
[01:05] <mappps> whys there no shop near me open
[01:06] <mappps> im hungry!
[01:06] <zmoylan-pi> no 24hour garages that sell food?
[01:06] <mappps> yea
[01:07] <mappps> but
[01:07] <mappps> its like 25min walk
[01:07] <mappps> i am tempted
[01:07] <zmoylan-pi> always fun to try and buy the biggest box of cornflakes to watch them fit the box through the tiny slot in armoured glass...
[01:07] <mappps> lol
[01:07] <mappps> i think he ctual building is open
[01:07] <mappps> here
[01:08] <zmoylan-pi> even tescos don't do 24hour here anymore.  they ended up a nice big place for drug deals and hookers to stay dry and warm
[01:10] <daftykins> :O
[01:10] <daftykins> did the managers wonder why there were so many folk just 'browsing' the shelves?
[01:11] <zmoylan-pi> i think it was the baby oil and condoms aisle got _really_ busy...
[01:11] <daftykins> surely such things don't go on in this modern world we live in, zmoylan-pi ?
[01:16] <zmoylan-pi> i think some take bitcoin now...
[01:16] <mappps> garages?
[01:16] <mappps> really?
[01:17] <zmoylan-pi> didn't some garage in usa offer teslas for bitcoin
[01:18] <mappps> is btc stable atm?
[01:18] <zmoylan-pi> hell no
[01:19] <ali1234> actually bitcoin has been boringly stable for months now
[01:19] <zmoylan-pi> makes the asyrian empire look stable...
[01:19] <zmoylan-pi> haven't there been ddos and shurdowns of exchanges?
[01:20] <ali1234> not recently
[01:20] <zmoylan-pi> *shutdowns
[01:20] <ali1234> not important ones
[01:20] <ali1234> cryptsy shutdown but they were altcoin exchange
[01:20] <daftykins> i thought that one guy said it had failed so everyone was going to slowly shut up shop
[01:21] <ali1234> me might be right
[01:21] <ali1234> but it will take a while before we find out
[01:21] <zmoylan-pi> i just see the headlines... coinkite?
[01:22] <ali1234> yeah no-one cares about them
[01:22] <zmoylan-pi> and bitquick?
[01:22] <daftykins> g'night all \o
[01:22]  * daftykins trots off
[01:22] <ali1234> never even heard of that one lol
[01:22] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[01:23] <ali1234> important exchanges/payment processors = bitstamp, coinbase, bitpay, huobi
[01:23] <zmoylan-pi> as i say, i just see the headlines. not following closely. so could well be mickey mouse operations who jumped on band wagon
[01:23] <ali1234> one of those goes down and you'll see proper price mvement
[01:24] <ali1234> kraken, bitfinex, btc-e are also fairly large
[01:25] <ali1234> btc-e is i think the only remaining exchange from sub-$10 times
[01:25] <zmoylan-pi> that's a lot better than it was... https://www.coinbase.com/charts
[01:26] <mappps> heres loads of other coins too
[01:26] <ali1234> altcoins, yes
[01:26] <zmoylan-pi> i wonder if been the preferred payment for ransomware helps stabilise things...
[01:26] <ali1234> as of yet, none of them is even close to the adoption that bitcoin has seen
[01:27] <ali1234> zmoylan-pi: no, stability comes from the ability to do more complex trading than market orders, believe it or not
[01:27] <mappps> i dont like the fact that it cant be recovered, so if i lost my wallet or whatever thats it tough
[01:27] <ali1234> even though margin trading looks like gambling, when a lot of people do it, it in fact stabilizes the price
[01:28] <ali1234> (and really it is gambling on an individual level)
[01:28] <zmoylan-pi> until someone panics and starts a chain reaction... :-)
[01:28] <ali1234> right
[01:28] <ali1234> but with margin trading the effects are limited
[01:29] <ali1234> and all that happens is the people doing it lose money
[01:29] <ali1234> while the people who bet the other way... they make money
[01:29] <ali1234> where as if you only have market orders, then everyone will try to dump at once
[01:33] <mappps> hmm morrisons opens 8am
[01:33] <mappps> think il ust go there at 8
[01:33] <mappps> petrol station too far;p
[01:34] <zmoylan-pi> wow most shops here open at 7
[01:34] <zmoylan-pi> of course you have to step over every delivery service stuffing the shelves
[02:04] <ali1234> hmm why doesn't lynx support <pre>
[02:05] <ali1234> links supports it, but it doesn't support unicode
[02:06] <ali1234> ah, elinks supports both
[02:10] <ali1234> w3m also works properly
[02:10] <zmoylan-pi> i thought elinks was dead at this point...
[02:10] <ali1234> no idea
[02:21] <zmoylan-pi> when i first set up the pi i looked at a few console based browsers and lynx was most updated iirc
[02:21] <zmoylan-pi> was a few years ago mind
[02:22] <ali1234> yeah. it ignored <pre> though
[02:22] <ali1234> which is kind of ironic
[02:34] <mappps> anyoe seen any good films recently?
[02:38] <zmoylan-1i> no, but i can list 3 ancient films you haven't seen that will make you laugh...
[02:40] <m0nkey_> go
[02:43] <m0nkey_> you have 30 seconds..
[02:43]  * m0nkey_ plays the countdown music
[02:43] <zmoylan-1i> malcolm, the gods must be crazy,
[02:44] <m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JVwo3D72cc
[02:45] <m0nkey_> BZZT. Time's up!
[02:48] <mappps> what fils zmoylan-1i
[02:54] <mappps> ?:)
[02:54] <mappps> films
[03:01] <zmoylan-1i> malcolm, the gods must be crazy, real genius
[03:18] <mappps> nevver heard of any of them!!
[03:18] <zmoylan-1i> and if you watch and don't laugh i owe you a pint
[03:19] <mappps> heh
[03:19] <mappps> il imdb them now
[03:58] <zmoylan-1i> the only weapon dumber than the nuclear bazooka... http://imgur.com/gallery/8SNK8nm
[04:23] <mappps> hmm
[04:24] <mappps> do you hae a tablet?
[04:24] <mappps> looking at getting a new android tab
[05:19] <MooDoo> morning all
[05:28] <zmoylan-pi> thank crunchie it's friday...
[05:32] <AuroraAvenue> Happy Apr1st However it's also World Back up day .. https://twitter.com/lifehacker/status/715709950681563137
[05:33] <AuroraAvenue> http://lifehacker.com/5961216/why-you-should-have-more-than-one-backup
[05:40] <MooDoo> oh yeah it's friday indeed, 1:45 finish today :D
[05:51] <zmoylan-pi> of course everything you read on line is automatically suspect due to it been 1st april
[05:53] <MooDoo> yes agreed
[05:59] <zmoylan-pi> and worse with all the timezones it lasts nearly 2 days
[06:00] <AuroraAvenue> Right that's it I'm not moving all day |  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3516515/Villager-rock-won-t-roll-11-000-year-old-boulder-middle-road-not-moved-highway-chiefs-ruled-not-traffic-hazard.html
[07:02] <MooDoo> :)
[07:54] <DJones> the strange thing is, that boulder story isn't an April fool, it's been around for a few days
[07:58] <MooDoo> yeah it's been sat there for years
[09:05] <foobarry> i saw a thomas the tank engine episode about that
[09:16] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:24] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Walk to Work Day! 😃
[09:47] <zmoylan-pi> i thought it was take your swan to work day... https://twitter.com/DLMarina_Dublin/status/715824196312555520/photo/1
[09:49] <MooDoo> walk walk?  are you mad/
[09:52] <bigcalm> I have a 1 hour drive to work. Not sure I would want to walk it
[09:52] <bigcalm> (on the motorway that is)
[09:52] <zmoylan-pi> we'd provide puppies to amuse you on your walk...
[09:58] <TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Obvious 'shop is obvious
[10:00] <zmoylan-pi> its supposed to be a little obvious on 1st apr
[10:01] <TwistedLucidity> I prefer the ones that are less obvious
[10:01] <diplo> Just had my first April fools joke played on me :)
[10:02] <TwistedLucidity> The proposed "Quantum Astrology" 2016 Christmas lecture did make me giggle though.
[10:02] <diplo> New girlfriend saying she was pregnant :P
[10:02] <TwistedLucidity> diplo: I hope you reacted in an acceptable manner. i.e. didn't run away screaming
[10:03] <diplo> I replied with Wooohoooo!!!!!
[10:04] <diplo> Not sure what was the funniest part, my reaction or her doing it, she wasn't ready for that :P
[10:06] <TwistedLucidity> If you'd thought fast you could have said "Cripes! Not another one...oh...whoopsie"
[10:06] <diplo> heh, I am not that quick :)
[10:06] <zmoylan-pi> or a comeback how you just found out that you were related... :-P
[10:07] <diplo> hah - I'll remember that for next time :)
[10:07] <zmoylan-pi> we'll call the child... flipper...
[10:19] <bigcalm> popey: love your rebuttal to Pete Cannon. No like button on email though
[10:20] <TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/3/31/1108
[10:20] <TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Pete been stirring again?
[10:21] <bigcalm> Wolvs LUG mailing list. A discussion about _Ubuntu_ on Windows
[10:21] <MooDoo> i'll be interested when it's windows on ubuntu ;)
[10:22]  * TwistedLucidity ambles off to see if list is public
[10:23] <MooDoo> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/wolves/
[10:24] <bigcalm> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/wolves/2016-March/thread.html
[10:24] <TwistedLucidity> That's exactly where I am now...
[10:24] <bigcalm> And today's is in the 2016-April archive
[10:25] <MooDoo> I'm just reading now
[10:25] <Myrtti> ahhahhaha
[10:25] <Myrtti> nice.
[10:28] <TwistedLucidity> It's not BASH but a BASH-a-like? That makes more sense.
[10:30] <TwistedLucidity> I'll probably end up using it at some point, but I'd prefer to use Ubuntu (or CentOS or...) and simply not have MS' toxicity in the mix.
[10:31] <TwistedLucidity> The remain hostile to F/OSS and any dealings with MS should be treat with utmost caution.
[10:54] <MooDoo> hopefully they will do a switcharoo and bring visual studio/xamarin to linux
[10:54] <MooDoo> instead of the visual studio code thing that's available
[10:59] <popey> :) bigcalm
[11:06] <TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Wasn't there some Xamarin announcement recently?
[11:07] <MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: yeah microsoft bought them, and xamarin just release all their toos for free either with or without visual studio
[11:08] <MooDoo> https://www.xamarin.com/platform - TwistedLucidity download now for free :)
[11:10] <mallard> >
[11:10] <mallard> Xamarin.Android uses just-in-time compilation for sophisticated runtime optimization of your app’s performance, meaning your app is a native Android APK.
[11:10] <mallard> Doesn't this mean that the APK files are going to be massive?
[11:11] <bashrc_> if ms bought xamarin does that mean they bought mono?
[11:11] <MooDoo> i'm guessing whatever xamarin own/created ms own now
[11:13] <bashrc_> if that's true then mono comes home at last
[11:13] <zmoylan-pi> i always thought mono was an unwanted orphan?
[11:16] <bashrc_> it was, pretty much
[11:16] <popey> I always thought it was very much a wanted orphan
[11:16] <popey> but the free software community had a wasp up it's collective arse about it
[11:16] <popey> no thanks to people like Roy on techrights
[11:17] <popey> People fought hard to push Mono out of Linux distros.
[11:17] <popey> Short sighted.
[11:17] <bashrc_> there were always doubts about mono, because its implementation went far beyond the ecma specification
[11:17] <bashrc_> so anyone distributing a mono app could have MS lawyers going after them
[11:18] <popey> oh please
[11:18] <popey> that was the story always spun by anti-mono brigade
[11:18] <popey> *nothing* ever happened
[11:18] <popey> and mono and things built with it, were Free Software
[11:18] <bashrc_> ms have done plenty of stuff in relation to patents
[11:18] <popey> yet the free software world didn't like it.
[11:18] <popey> not mono
[11:19] <bashrc_> for me it was just too entwined with microsoft. Too risky
[11:19] <zmoylan-pi> you don't have to do legal action to cause a dampening of enthusiasm... see ms android patents...
[11:20] <TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: Yes, the patent threat is probably the biggest risk in any dealing with MS. Some deptartments (e.g. Azure) might like F/OSS, but the company still has a massive anti-freedom culture
[11:22] <bashrc_> that said, as a technology I thought mono was ok
[11:22] <TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: "Java done a bit better"
[11:22] <bashrc_> yes, that kind of thing
[11:22] <zmoylan-pi> as a technology i heard some really nice things about it... but it felt... tainted...
[11:23] <bashrc_> indeed
[11:23] <bashrc_> like a trap :)
[11:23] <TwistedLucidity> Unless MS legal issued a notice that said "Mono is patent free and we will never sue" and I missed it, using it is a risk.
[11:23] <zmoylan-pi> i think they did that in the end... but it was too late by then
[11:24] <bashrc_> I think they did issue a promise at some point, but promises aren't legally enforcible
[11:27] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, back in 2009
[11:27] <zmoylan-pi> likewise i hope the ubuntu on windows doesn't hurt canonical as so many companies that do deals with ms get icky end of the stick
[11:28] <foobarry> is it a deal or just a project one guy did with an MS team?
[11:32] <TwistedLucidity> Found some stories about the whole patent promise thing. Yeah, seems like the concern was that Mono implemented some stuff that extended beyond the scope of said promise.
[11:35] <TwistedLucidity> So whilst MS did nothing, what they /could/ have done and could still do is the issue.
[11:36] <TwistedLucidity> Disclaimer: I am a pessimist
[11:38] <zmoylan-pi> and i think TwistedLucidity is an optimist... :-)
[12:14] <dwatkins> I was looking up the meaning of PGP's "Alien-level encryption", and Google told me that MartijnVdS talked about this on here a while ago. Hello folks, long time no see.
[12:14] <bashrc> I think the mono ship has already sailed. Fortunately, other languages are available.
[12:15] <bashrc> alien-level?
[12:16] <bashrc> does that mean I publish my public key to the mothership?
[12:16] <dwatkins> bashrc: yeah, I think PGP talks about 1024-bit keys as being really difficult to break, suggesting it would need very advanced technology
[12:16] <dwatkins> no, don't do that - someone might hack into it with an old Macbook.
[12:17] <bashrc> also depends on the algorithm. ECC has shorter key lengths
[12:21] <dwatkins> just had someone ask about using a 2048-bit key, which seemed excessive to me, but I guess it depends on all sorts of factors and how you're using it.
[12:22]  * dwatkins tries to get his head around Shibboleth
[12:23] <TwistedLucidity> 4096 key, 8192 key...they all fall with a hammer to the knee caps.
[12:23] <bashrc> For the last few years I've been using 4096bit RSA keys for PGP and general encryption (eg of backups)
[12:23] <dwatkins> ouch, yeah
[12:23] <zmoylan-pi> rot13 for durability... if it was good enough for caesar... :-)
[12:24] <dwatkins> double rot13 for extra encryption!
[12:24] <bashrc> caesar cypher :)
[12:24] <zmoylan-pi> exactly!!
[12:26] <bashrc> but I think most, if not all, the encryption we use today is vulnerable to any near future quantum cryptanalysis with enough qbits
[12:26] <dwatkins> I fixed the colours in xmountains, is there any point me submitting my fork to the repos, seeing as it uses an outdated method of drawing to the desktop in X11?
[12:27]  * zmoylan-pi parses all my important messages into ogham... :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
[12:28] <dwatkins> "The vast majority of the inscriptions consist of personal names." - so it was a language of graffiti
[12:28] <bashrc> killjoy woz here
[12:29] <dwatkins> sounds pretty neat to me, a language made up from people's names
[12:29] <dwatkins> "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra"
[12:32] <zmoylan-pi> there's a bit in turkey that says olaf was ere essentially iirc
[12:33] <zmoylan-pi> but you can scratch server passwords on case of pc and it just looks like scratches... :-)
[12:34] <zmoylan-pi> saves a fortune on post its...
[12:34] <dwatkins> nice idea, although you're a bit restricted in the character-set
[12:34] <dwatkins> no letter 'p' either
[12:35] <zmoylan-pi> irish works around lack of letters by substituting others
[12:35] <zmoylan-pi> it all makes sense when you hear irish place names been pronounced correctly
[14:05] <diddledan> http://www.samsung.com/uk/galaxy-ltd
[14:19] <diddledan> fun new apple music advert: https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/715880947195863040
[14:33] <daftykins> you can't put 'fun' and 'apple' in the same sentence!
[14:35] <diddledan> you can when it involves the tay
[14:57] <zmoylan-pi> that's just tacky... this gold plated... http://imgur.com/gallery/8SNK8nm
[14:57] <zmoylan-pi> whoops wrong channel....
[14:58] <diddledan> https://www.digitalocean.com/company/blog/introducing-cloudsound/
[14:58] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: even though it's the wrong channel it's still fun
[15:00] <diddledan> lol - just read the description talking about typo causing it to originally say termite cannon
[15:01] <daftykins> thermite indeed
[15:02] <daftykins> for about 2 seconds i was imagining termites being explosive ;D
[15:03] <daftykins> now i want a DO hoodie :<
[15:03] <diddledan> DO EET#
[15:04] <daftykins> i'm not sure you even can
[15:04] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ALySsPXt0
[15:04] <diddledan> I can't "even". does that count?
[15:04]  * daftykins blinks
[15:30] <bigcalm> "Maybe we should start a WLUG (not Wolves) But Windows and Linux user Group?"  -  most amusing thing I've read today :)
[15:32] <daftykins> would be nice if folk from both 'camps' could just get along, all the childish comments i see about Windows are quite tiresome
[15:54] <diddledan> daftykins: windows is a fisher-price OS
[15:54] <diddledan> :-p
[15:59] <daftykins> XP sure was ;)
[15:59] <diddledan> blue plastic!
[16:00] <daftykins> reet time to throw Kodi on this new Amazon FireTV :>
[16:00] <diddledan> \o/
[16:00] <daftykins> it's going in the clients' wee ones room
[16:00] <daftykins> his nanny went to play a DVD the other day and the unit had locked up! impressive for just a player
[16:44] <diddledan> why does every business have to write a clause into their digital usage policies that disclaim all liability to everything evar? surely it would be better for lawmakers to clarify what is and isn't applicable rather than every business employing liars to reinvent the wheel every time a new service starts
[16:46] <diddledan> the bbc store's is intriguing. they effectively state: "we won't pay nothing ever. oh, that is unless the law says we have to, in which case ignore the previous statement."
[16:47] <diddledan> they even have wording that says "we're not responsible! oh there's a law that says we can't say that... we're not responsible except for things that says we're not allowed to say we're not responsible for."
[16:48] <diddledan> that the law**
[16:48] <daftykins> BBC store? is that the bit that flogs bluray sets etc?
[16:48] <diddledan> no, it's a digital equiv tho
[16:48] <diddledan> they sell you a license rather than a disc
[16:49] <diddledan> complete with DRM
[16:49] <diddledan> https://store.bbc.com/
[16:49] <mappps> hi#
[16:59] <daftykins> diddledan: nasty
[16:59] <diddledan> so much for being a "public service broadcaster" :-p
[17:00] <diddledan> they'll even sell you stuff that is on the iplayer
[17:00] <zmoylan-pi> on the other hand they created the hitchhikers show as a comedy...
[18:07] <daftykins> diddledan: moar duck - https://i.imgur.com/89nBsPJ.jpg
[18:07] <diddledan> quack
[19:01] <ndf> So...
[19:01] <ndf> 'predictable interface names'
[19:01] <ndf> pff
[19:01] <ndf> EVERYTHING is predicting eth0, not en2984180502398uj
[19:02] <ndf> arf
[19:02] <ndf> and now... replace every hardcoded conf
[19:02] <ndf> >'predictable'
[19:02] <ndf> oh the irony
[19:03] <ndf> so annoyed
[19:03] <daftykins> isn't it fun
[19:04] <daftykins> not sure who had the bright idea there
[19:05] <ndf> well I can tell you it's not a bright one
[19:05] <daftykins> :>
[19:06] <ndf> here I was scratching my head
[19:07] <ndf> then all of a sudden ifconfig slapped me in the face with a "oh, wtf is this?"
[19:07] <daftykins> in fairness it's the ideal day of the year for it
[19:07] <daftykins> ;)
[19:07] <ndf> haha
[19:07] <ndf> well, they say it's bad luck after 12pm
[19:07] <ndf> joke shoulda been over hours ago
[19:07] <daftykins> that's true
[19:08] <ali1234> that the default on 16.04 then?
[19:08] <ndf> 15.10
[19:08] <ali1234> my eth0 is still called eth0
[19:09] <ndf> did you dist-upgrade from 15.04?
[19:09] <ali1234> yes
[19:10] <ndf> that'll probably be why then
[19:10] <ndf> you already had your NICs set up in 15.04 as per the old scheme
[19:12] <ali1234> i wish they'd make predictable v4l names
[19:13] <ali1234> its really annoying that all my devices get switched around on every reboot
[19:13] <ndf> if by predictable you mean enp0spoiqwjrf9uq23r then no, you don't
[19:13] <ali1234> that would suit me fine
[19:13] <ndf> you call that predictable, too?
[19:13] <ndf> jeeeez
[19:14] <ali1234> it never changes, that is the only property i require
[19:14] <ndf> I would much rather that my configs still knew what cards they were talking about
[19:14] <ali1234> yeah, that's what i want
[19:14] <ndf> so we want to go back to eth0/wlan0
[19:14] <ndf> that's what /I/ call predictable, anyway
[19:15] <ndf> by predictable I mean every config I ever had was already predicting that
[19:15] <ali1234> you can't pedect what the device node for my capture card will be after the next reboot. nobody can
[19:16] <ali1234> it will be /dev/video0 1 2 3 or 4
[19:16] <ali1234> completely at random
[19:16] <ndf> so now, do I try and find every config containing eth*/wlan* and edit them all? or do I find a way to rename the card back to eth0/wlan0?
[19:16] <daftykins> my understanding was that an upgrade from 15.04 -> 15.10 kept upstart no? so didn't change scheme
[19:16] <ali1234> you find a way to rename it back to eth0
[19:16] <ali1234> daftykins: no, it definitely installs systemd
[19:16] <ndf> daftykins: yeah he was saying his cards are still eth0...
[19:16] <ali1234> and uses it
[19:17] <daftykins> oh
[19:17] <ndf> hm
[19:17] <ndf> must be during setup then
[19:17] <daftykins> maybe i'm thinking 14.10 -> 15.04
[19:18] <daftykins> see now i'm banned from giving help i'm rusting :)
[19:18] <ali1234> 15.04 doesn't use systemd at all
[19:18] <ali1234> at least i don't think it does
[19:18] <ali1234> i fresh installed 15.04 anyway
[19:18] <ali1234> and upgraded to 15.10
[19:18] <ali1234> wait actually that might be wrong
[19:18] <ali1234> i think i upgraded from 14.04 to 15.04 and then did a fresh install of 15.10
[19:19] <ndf> well in that case your cads should be all enp0s*
[19:19] <ali1234> InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 15.04 "Vivid Vervet" - Release amd64 (20150422.1)
[19:19] <ali1234> so i did upgrade
[19:20] <ndf> I hope a lot of people sent that bright spark some emails saying "B-b-but... my configs! =("
[19:20] <ali1234> lennart gets more hate mail than anyone in FOSS so i'm sure they did
[19:21] <ali1234> (most of it well deserved)
[19:21] <ndf> well yeah, if this is the sort of thing he likes to do to all the poor devs
[19:22] <ali1234> i think systemd is great
[19:22] <ndf> it might be, but my configs!
[19:22] <ali1234> systemd vs wayland is a really interesting comparison
[19:23] <ali1234> they are both trying to fix years of technical debt
[19:23] <ali1234> systemd has been far more successful in a shorter amount of time
[19:23] <ali1234> that counts for a lot in my opinion
[19:24] <ndf> well the only thing I've noticed through the change is a massive negative in my opinion
[19:24] <ndf> I don't know what else it does except ruin my configs
[19:24] <ndf> lol
[19:24] <ali1234> the only change i noticed is that dmesg is now in colour
[19:24] <daftykins> change when it doesn't seem like it's necessary is always going to seem like a pig though, right?
[19:25] <ndf> i don't mind change as long as there are a list of good points to outweigh ruining my configs
[19:25] <daftykins> i thought a lot of folk suffered from interface ordering jumping about through upgrades, or such like
[19:25] <ndf> I just don't know what they are
[19:25] <ali1234> your configs suck
[19:25] <ali1234> sorry but they do
[19:25] <ndf> *OpenVPNs configs suck
[19:25] <ndf> I didn't make it
[19:25] <ali1234> if you have more than one interface and you are using  kernel device names, you are going to get burned eventually
[19:26] <ndf> hey tell that to the developers of all the configs I have looking for eth0/wlan0
[19:26] <ali1234> maybe you should tell them :)
[19:26] <ali1234> open a bug report if something doesn't work with systemd
[19:27] <ali1234> systemd devs aren't going to listen to random users. but they will listen to developers
[19:27] <ali1234> same goes for wayland
[19:27] <ndf> but the point is the system has changed but none of the other packages have
[19:28] <ndf> it's not a bug to file with systemd saying their system doesn't work
[19:28] <ndf> it's that the software running on it hasn't caught up
[19:28] <ali1234> it hasn't really changed if you did a fresh install
[19:28] <ndf> i.e: you're suggesting I submit a bug report about systemd to the developer of every software package that hasn't updated their configs to reflect that
[19:28] <ali1234> i can guarantee you that openvn or whatever will not get fixed nobody reports a bug
[19:29] <ali1234> no i am only sggesting you report it for the software that you actually use
[19:30] <ali1234> in any case, you can rename interfaces however you want now
[19:30] <ali1234> so just rename it to eth0 and everything will be fine
[19:32] <ndf> I just read that even if I disable the naming scheme on systemd I still can't use eth* it would have to be somethingelse*
[19:33] <ali1234> clearly not true since my eth0 is still called eth0
[19:33] <ali1234> i don't know how it works but it does
[19:33] <diddledan> lol.. I'm watching pixels - cubert is cute
[19:34] <ali1234> pls no
[19:34] <ndf> but if you just did a dist-upgrade from 15.04 you already had them named like that
[19:34] <ndf> mine have always been systemd names
[19:34] <ndf> fresh 15.10
[19:34] <ali1234> ndf: right. so it is possible to have your ethernet named eth0 under systemd
[19:59] <ndf> yes you're totally missing what I'm saying
[20:07] <ali1234> what exactly are you saying?
[20:08] <ali1234> it sounds like you are saying that you can't rename your network card to eth0
[20:10] <diddledan> if you have eth0 _before_ upgrading to an ubuntu which uses predictable network device names then it will remain eth0 after the upgrade
[20:10] <ali1234> correct
[20:11] <ali1234> thus proving that it is possible for the network card to be named eth0 under systemd
[20:11] <diddledan> I don't think it's related to systemd
[20:12] <diddledan> udev is the thing that renames them IIRC
[20:12] <ali1234> udev is part of systemd now
[20:12] <diddledan> oh
[20:12] <diddledan> meh
[20:12] <diddledan> so systemd actually _is_ turning into the BORG collective then? :-p
[20:12] <ali1234> yes?
[20:13] <diddledan> yey?
[20:13] <ali1234> at least it works
[20:13] <diddledan> true
[20:14] <ali1234> i very much doubt that systemd has built in code which detects if you upgrade from 15.04 to 15.10 and allows you to rename your network card as eth0 in only that specific circumstance
[20:14] <diddledan> no the upgrader sets udev rules telling it to rename
[20:15] <ali1234> right
[20:15] <ali1234> actually the udev rules come from the 15.04 installer, and they just continue to be honoured in 15.10
[20:15] <ali1234> so all you have to do is write a udev rule and you get eth0 back on a fresh install
[20:15] <diddledan> I _think_ that if you were to interrupt before udev rules get played then the kernel rules will take precedence which afaik are the predictable names
[20:16] <ali1234> that is what would happen on systemd/udev < 197
[20:16] <ali1234> on 197+ you get the new predictable name if you don't have any custom udev rules
[20:16] <ali1234> you can disable this behaviour with the kernel command line though
[20:17] <ali1234> or just write udev rules
[20:17] <diddledan> right, again I believe, the predictable names are a kernel feature but an uptodate udev can override to whatever you desire
[20:17] <ali1234> no they aren't a kernel feature, they come from systemd-udev
[20:17] <diddledan> ok
[20:18]  * diddledan tries to commit that to the memory banks so I sound more clever-git next time I try to waffle :-p
[20:18] <ali1234> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
[20:18] <diddledan> aah, good reference, thanks
[20:18] <ali1234> lists three different ways to stop it from happening too
[20:19] <diddledan> lol, I like that one of the fixes is to create a config file symlinked to /dev/null
[20:21] <ali1234> yeah not sure about that
[20:22] <ali1234> i wonder if just an empty file works
[20:28] <ali1234> i suppose the reason for linking to /dev/null is to prevent the file from accidentally getting created by a package manager or something
[20:29] <ali1234> so that's actually kind of sensible
[20:48] <mappps> hi
[21:43] <terran> aurghh can't get past the terms and conditions of teamspeak on the terminal! typing 'yes' doesnt do anything, it's rather strange
[22:28] <aruns> Hi.
[22:29] <aruns> Which IRC channel is best for asking questions about problems with a specific application that I am running on Ubuntu?
[22:29] <aruns> The application in question is AMPPS.
[22:41] <directhex> transferring data from old NAS to new one
[22:41] <directhex> 500GB down, 2.5TB to go...
[22:53] <daftykins> directhex: from one to the other or is a computer on the network handling it? :>
[22:54] <directhex> daftykins: i didn't see an option on the new one to do samba mounts... but there *is* on the old ARM based one
[22:54] <directhex> so the new NAS is mounted on the old one
[22:54] <directhex> & the copy is a background task on that
[22:54] <daftykins> ah har
[22:54] <daftykins> what type do you tend to go for?
[22:56] <directhex> i went from a 1-bay synology to a 4-bay qnap
[22:56] <daftykins> hmm, how does it compare? i've always gone synology and just updated a couple to DSM 6.0
[22:57] <directhex> ds112j -> ts453mini
[22:57] <directhex> i think synology has a slicker experience. lots of the functionality on the qnap feels a bit bolted on. like... dnla settings spawns a different webapp in a new tab. so does youtube downloads
[22:57] <directhex> but
[22:57] <directhex> functionality seems *crazy* more powerful
[22:57] <daftykins> o0
[22:58] <directhex> like... i can configure per-client auto-transcoding settings based on the client's MAC
[22:58] <directhex> (e.g. mp4 only for chromecast, mkv for xbone)
[22:58] <daftykins> hrmm
[22:58] <m0nkey_> heh, only a celeron for a nas?
[22:58] <daftykins> to be honest i'd never use any of that
[22:59] <directhex> m0nkey_: that is *crazy* powerful compared to the normal single-or-dual-core-ARMv5 found in NAS
[22:59] <daftykins> the celeron name has actually been attached to some quite capable chips (for some HTPC duties)
[22:59] <m0nkey_> directhex, you'll hate my nas then :)
[22:59] <directhex> daftykins: docker/kvm/lxc/xen management? :p
[22:59] <diddledan> m0nkey_: your nas is beastly
[22:59] <daftykins> hmm i think the RAM limitations would crop up too quickly
[22:59] <m0nkey_> >:)
[23:00] <daftykins> it's not a NAS if it's not an appliance really :P
[23:00] <daftykins> at least in my head
[23:00] <m0nkey_> I consider mine an appliance
[23:00] <daftykins> if it's got general purpose hardware, naaaaah
[23:00] <m0nkey_> That qnap is Intel.. it could be made to run Windows. Same concept. :)
[23:01] <directhex> actually, they support it
[23:01] <directhex> virtualised, but still
[23:01] <m0nkey_> http://imgur.com/a/Ed2Sg <-- the nas
[23:01] <directhex> https://www.qnap.com/event/qvpc/uk/
[23:02] <daftykins> why does my laptop think it's 11pm o0
[23:02]  * daftykins checks the island isn't floating away
[23:02] <directhex> daftykins: dual boot?
[23:02] <daftykins> nah
[23:02] <diddledan> daftykins: you're further east?
[23:02] <daftykins> no sir
[23:02] <diddledan> west*
[23:02] <diddledan> I suck at directions
[23:03] <m0nkey_> diddledan, I want to add more drives to my nas
[23:03] <m0nkey_> However, I'm low on SATA ports
[23:03] <diddledan> I always figure the planet is rotating in the opposite direction to facts
[23:03] <diddledan> :-(
[23:03] <directhex> m0nkey_: add a 12-bay USB 3 caddy!
[23:04] <daftykins> thunderbolt!
[23:04] <diddledan> e.g. I always think rockets launched on the east coast of merrycar go over the mainland, when they actually go over the puddle
[23:04] <m0nkey_> I'll most likely move it to this case: http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-q26/
[23:04] <daftykins> diddledan: never know, if they accepted the lowest bid... ;)
[23:04] <directhex> daftykins: lots of NAS appliances support external expansion packs. this one "only" supports 8-bay USB3 expansion
[23:05] <diddledan> blinkin nora, m0nkey_ , that's huge
[23:05] <directhex> daftykins: we have a synology at work with a many-bay Infiniband attached expansion
[23:05] <m0nkey_> it only takes a mini-itx board
[23:06] <directhex> when i were a wee lad i had a NAS in a http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2005/12/06/either_way_atx_or_btx_cases/stacker-for-back.jpg
[23:06] <directhex> 8 disk raid5!
[23:07]  * diddledan doesn't mention the shoving of disks into anyone's box
[23:07] <m0nkey_> Gah.
[23:07] <daftykins> directhex: i still do XD
[23:07] <m0nkey_> Nobody does RAID5 anymore
[23:07] <m0nkey_> That died when >1TB drives came out
[23:07] <daftykins> nah RAID6 minimum really
[23:07] <directhex> indeed
[23:07] <directhex> but we did in 2006
[23:08] <diddledan> I miss the days of nicely formed cases that have the sharp edges folded around and made safe
[23:08] <m0nkey_> I've got 4 drives in mine, RAIDZ2, that's RAID6.
[23:08] <daftykins> i'm still running a 6 disk RAID5 :P
[23:08] <directhex> i've done 4-disk RAID10 in the new NAS
[23:08] <m0nkey_> directhex, that's good for IO
[23:08] <m0nkey_> But I'm storing family photos, home movies of my kids, etc
[23:08] <directhex> i went way over-spec, as the old NAS has serious IO issues
[23:08] <m0nkey_> So I didn't want the wrong two drives in a pair going bad
[23:08] <directhex> like... i can't stream blu-ray rips realtime from it
[23:09] <daftykins> as in 1:1 from disc?
[23:09] <m0nkey_> Heh, my old Synology was nice, but yeah.. was slow. Some Marvell processor I recall.
[23:09] <directhex> so i went craaaaaaaaaazy over my needs, to guarantee lots and lots of slack
[23:09] <m0nkey_> directhex, I hear ya
[23:09] <diddledan> m0nkey_: biggest issue you'll have in adding disks will be the decision of how to organise them all - i.e. you can't change the dimensions of your current raidz so the advice is IIRC to duplicate it with an identically-shaped second raidz2
[23:09] <m0nkey_> My home built NAS is way overkill for my needs.
[23:09] <directhex> daftykins: right. old NAS seems to max out at around 15mbit/sec transfer rate for reading large sequential data
[23:09] <m0nkey_> diddledan, exactly
[23:09] <daftykins> directhex: wow
[23:10] <m0nkey_> 4 more drives in a vdev, then add extend the existing pool.
[23:10] <directhex> daftykins: 15mbit is not enough to watch a blu-ray, which can easily be several times higher
[23:10] <daftykins> might as well be sshfs mounts
[23:10] <m0nkey_> So, two RAIDZ2 vdevs in one pool
[23:10] <daftykins> directhex: you're doing that thing where you preach to the choir
[23:10] <directhex> daftykins: i believe that's called "manspaining" these days ;)
[23:10] <m0nkey_> Damn thing is fast :) Xeon rocks.
[23:10] <m0nkey_> But that's enough e-Penis waving.
[23:11] <daftykins> in a home box? lulwat
[23:11] <directhex> m0nkey_: i am fine with what i spent building this
[23:11] <m0nkey_> :)
[23:11] <directhex> m0nkey_: about £1100 total including 4 5GB 7200RPM NAS disks, and 8GB RAM
[23:11] <m0nkey_> Heh, Think mine came to just shy of $2000.
[23:12] <m0nkey_> But that was two years ago
[23:12] <directhex> right. gone midnight. BED.
[23:12] <directhex> this is not going to finish any time soon.
[23:12] <m0nkey_> A good NAS will be expensive, but it will last years. Mine has two years on the clock already, none of the disks are showing any signs of problems.
[23:13] <directhex> i had a DOA disk :'(
[23:13] <m0nkey_> :(
[23:13] <directhex> and qnap drop you in read-only as soon as your array isn't happy, so you can't start with pre-degraded RAID1
[23:14] <m0nkey_>   9 Power_On_Hours          -O--CK   075   075   000    -    18313
[23:14] <directhex> Linux prismo 3.12.6 #1 SMP Fri Mar 11 04:40:28 CST 2016 x86_64 unknown
[23:14] <directhex> BLEEDING EDGE
[23:14] <m0nkey_> They've been spinning 24x7 for 2.09 years
[23:14] <daftykins> XD
[23:15] <daftykins> i have a stack of 8 x 2TB WD RE2-GP's that've been spinning for 6 years solid, not sure what to even do with them now
[23:15] <daftykins> er at a clients* i forgot to add
[23:15] <diddledan> o/
[23:15] <daftykins> diddledan: you want some disks that'll last a week? :>
[23:15] <directhex> Power_On-Hours is....... 0xb!
[23:15] <diddledan> lol
[23:15] <directhex> so 11 hours!
[23:16] <directhex>  00:16:01 up 10:39, load average: 3.60, 2.98, 2.59
[23:16] <directhex> yup!
[23:17] <m0nkey_> [root@tardis] ~# uptime
[23:17] <m0nkey_>  7:17PM  up 8 days, 11:55, 1 user, load averages: 0.54, 0.49, 0.43
[23:17] <m0nkey_> but that's only because i rolled back an update
[23:17] <directhex> *BED*
[23:17] <m0nkey_> go