[00:24] <dax> !no, neon is <reply> KDE Neon ( http://neon.kde.org/ ) is a KDE project to package the latest stable and development versions of KDE on top of an Ubuntu base. As it is not an official Ubuntu or Kubuntu project, please use #kde-neon for discussion and support.
[00:24] <dax> !no, neon is <reply> KDE Neon ( http://neon.kde.org/ ) is a KDE project to package the latest stable and development versions of KDE software on top of an Ubuntu base. As it is not an official Ubuntu or Kubuntu project, please use #kde-neon for discussion and support.
[00:25] <dax> saw the user edition packages for it started building today, good chance i'll be switching from stretch+KDE to them
[17:03] <popey> phanes_ seems to just want to sit and snark rather than actually fix his issue
[18:46] <hggdh> popey: known troll
[20:00] <phanes_> hello
[20:00] <phanes_> why was i just banned in #ubuntu?
[20:00] <ikonia> hello phanes_
[20:00] <ikonia> for refusing to drop a topic when asked multiple times
[20:01] <phanes_> you said it was offtopic-- it was not, and you are misinforming users
[20:01] <ikonia> so I forwarded you to this channel
[20:01] <phanes_> the topic is not adhoc defined by you
[20:01] <phanes_> if it is please correct me
[20:01] <ikonia> the topic is set in the /topic command
[20:01] <phanes_> correct
[20:01] <phanes_> can you point out where it says that's offtopic?
[20:01] <ikonia> (as in output)
[20:01] <ikonia> and in the IRC wiki pages, although they could do with a tidy up
[20:01] <phanes_> because i checked the topic
[20:01] <phanes_> and i checked the irc wiki
[20:01] <phanes_> and none of that says its offtopic
[20:02] <phanes_> particularly as you were discussing it in the context of providing support for #ubuntu
[20:02] <ikonia> phanes_: common sense, getting into a debate about safe compiling of kernels for a user who has zero idea about what the problem is, let alone how to fix it, is offtopic
[20:02] <ikonia> and not going to help anyone
[20:02] <phanes_> so in this case you have redefined the topic and are enforcing that redefinition with a ban
[20:02] <ikonia> which is why I said I'd be happy to discuss it in an offtopic channel, but not divert the channel from what he was working on
[20:02] <ikonia> no, I'm applying common sense
[20:02] <phanes_> thats a buzzword that doesn't actually mean anything
[20:02] <phanes_> you're using it to bend the rules
[20:03] <phanes_> please link me to where it says that it is offtopic
[20:03] <phanes_> because i just cant find it in the links in the topic
[20:03] <phanes_> you could always lift the ban and enforce the channel rules like you were brought here to do?
[20:04] <ikonia> it's not a buzz word at all
[20:04] <phanes_> and then we can talk about why you're wrong about this kernel thing
[20:04] <ikonia> a user who is struggling to even describe a problem should not be looking at kernel compiliation for no reason
[20:04] <ikonia> and discussing that in a busy channel infront of the user is not really going to help him is it
[20:04] <phanes_> is that offtopic?
[20:04] <phanes_> no
[20:04] <ikonia> hence why I offered to do this offtopic
[20:04] <phanes_> it is not offtopic though you just wanted to move it there
[20:04] <phanes_> and then you lied and called it offtopic
[20:04] <ikonia> I think I'll leave it here
[20:05] <ikonia> you seem to want to argue rather than add value
[20:05] <phanes_> no i want you to follow your own rules
[20:05] <ikonia> talk to one of the other ops - or part the channel
[20:05] <phanes_> and lift my ban
[20:05] <phanes_> this is ego
[20:05] <phanes_> i told you that you were wrong and misinforming users (and you are) and you banned me for it
[20:05] <phanes_> and you dont even know why compiling a kernel is dangerous, you're just saying that
[20:05] <ikonia> phanes_: ok - lets talk about how wrong I am
[20:06] <ikonia> are all kernels backward compatible with all underlying software components, eg: libc and compilers (for example)
[20:06] <phanes_> so, to start out, let's get it out -- i do this for a living
[20:06] <ikonia> are they all compatible ?
[20:07] <phanes_> in major release versions yes, for the most part -- if you cross major releases you might run into issues, but going from like 4.1.x to 4.3.x isn't going to be a huge issue and as long as you are compiling target and source in the same environment you'll be fine
[20:07] <ikonia> phanes_: are they all compatible ?
[20:07] <ikonia> yes or no
[20:08] <phanes_> i gave you your answer, and you're talking to someone who gets paid to do just this and probably knows more about it than you do, so you may want to adjust your tone unless you have any, any, any justification for saying what youre saying prior to lifting my ban and then un-misinforming that user
[20:08] <ikonia> are they all compatible, yes or no
[20:09] <phanes_> you can compile almost any kernel with a modern libc and compiler, if you're doing legacy environment work then you want to be more careful -- in the context of a modern distro the answer is no, in the context of a legacy environment the answer is yes
[20:09] <ikonia> are they all compatible, yes/no
[20:10] <ikonia> then lets go a step deeper
[20:10] <phanes_> i have answered your question
[20:10] <phanes_> thoroughly
[20:10] <ikonia> do they all work with all binary blob firmware components
[20:10] <ikonia> such as the network card you can't get working
[20:10] <ikonia> or the video card he can't get working
[20:10] <ikonia> is there a range of compatability there ?
[20:10] <ikonia> or is that open for all
[20:11] <phanes_> no but you'd run into that with precompiled kernels -- and you would with libc/gcc as well, your issue is not an issue specific to compilation of a kernel
[20:11] <ikonia> no you don't
[20:11] <ikonia> as ubuntu ships supported compatible components
[20:11] <ikonia> so the answer is "yes, there is a risk of incompatbilitu"
[20:12] <phanes_> if that were true neither he or i would be in that channel
[20:12] <phanes_> and i suspect you know this
[20:12] <ikonia> now - what about the risk to the ubuntu package manager packages and dependencies
[20:12] <ikonia> he doesn't know
[20:12] <ikonia> thats why he's asking
[20:12] <ikonia> he can't even describe his own problem, let alone compile a kernel
[20:12] <phanes_> wait.  he doesn't know that your issue is also applicable to precompiled kernels so that's why he's asking?  you should read what im saying more closely
[20:13] <ikonia> no, you should pay attention
[20:13] <ikonia> he has no idea what his problem is
[20:13] <ikonia> or what a solution is
[20:13] <phanes_> ok but that's not offtopic, and you should tell him not to compile a kernel, not misinform the whole channel and pretend its offtopic
[20:13] <ikonia> as I've just said - there are risks
[20:13] <ikonia> such as the ones I've mentioned, the package manager, the dependencies the support implications
[20:13] <phanes_> it wont break the package manager or dependencies
[20:14] <phanes_> it wont break support either
[20:14] <ikonia> it will as #ubuntu doesn't support custom kernels
[20:14] <ikonia> and it will put risk on the package manager
[20:14] <phanes_> there is no issue youve described not also applicable to distro-provided precompiled kernels
[20:14] <phanes_> what risk?
[20:14] <ikonia> espeically on the update-grub side of the install
[20:14] <phanes_> i suspect someone told you this and you dont know why
[20:14] <ikonia> and there isn't the risk as the distro packages provide compatability with each other
[20:14] <ikonia> I think you need to stop saying that
[20:14] <ikonia> and to be honest - I'm going to stop discussing this with you
[20:15] <ikonia> I've tried to explain in reasonable detail
[20:15] <ikonia> I tried multiple times to stop you in the channel before you want this route
[20:15] <phanes_> ah, so when someone notices that youre making things up, they get banned and lied to
[20:15] <ikonia> so I'll leave it there
[20:15] <ikonia> not making anything up - this is a logged channel so you can see what I've said and why
[20:15] <ikonia> and I'm pretty confident it stands up
[20:15] <phanes_> can we please get intervention from another operator?  this guy does not need to be in there
[20:15] <ikonia> I think thats a wise move, one of the other operators can assist you
[20:15] <ikonia> good evening
[20:16] <phanes_> he is misinforming users and banning people when they point it out
[20:16] <IdleOne> phanes_: You expect ikonia to take what you say for granted, that you know what you are talking about. The same respect should be given to ikonia. The ban stays.
[20:16] <IdleOne> Please part the channel now.
[20:16] <phanes_> what are you talking about i just explained that every issue he described is applicable to precompiled kernels
[20:17] <phanes_> i am fucking ceh and rhce certified i know wtf im talking about, there is no abi or dependency breakage from compiling a kernel
[20:17] <phanes_> in fact you get MORE breakage concerns from package-provided kernels because youre guessing at what libc version and gcc version was used to compile
[20:17] <phanes_> this is widely known and documented
[20:18] <phanes_> now, sorry for the expletives, but its extremely frustrating to have someoen correct you with known bad information and treat you like this
[20:18] <phanes_> please lift the ban or i will blatantly evade
[20:19] <phanes_> i have done nothing wrong but point out that he was misinforming users
[20:19] <phanes_> in a self-compiled kernel there can be no libc or gcc mismatch because you are literally using the system versions to do it
[20:20] <phanes_> in a precompiled kernel you're hoping they used your same versions.  this is entry-level linux
[20:20] <phanes_> it was also ontopic, which is what the ban was for
[20:21] <phanes_> now please, all of you, follow your own channel policies
[20:23] <phanes_> lift the ban
[20:23] <phanes_> read up on the kernel
[20:24] <phanes_> i really dont want to have to waste a vps just to access one channel just because your op can't follow the rules
[20:25] <phanes_> or do the ops not have to?
[20:27] <IdleOne> The ban is not going to be lifted anytime soon. Please part this channel.
[20:28] <phanes_> i have purchased a vPS for the purpose of evading the ban.  im already back in
[20:28] <phanes_> pleased educate yourselves on proper system administration
[20:28] <phanes_> this was stupid
[20:29] <phanes_> and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for treating your seniors like this
[20:29] <phanes_> and i am obviously a senior
[20:30] <phanes_> also, congratulations, this log is getting published
[20:30] <IdleOne> !logs
[20:41] <valorie> yowza
 i got banned in #ubuntu trying to find out so please go gentle
[21:41] <bazhang> from #x
[21:42] <k1l_> oh not that troll
[21:43] <IdleOne> As long as he is not a problem we should let him be
[21:43] <bazhang> yea
[21:45] <k1l_> i really dont like that "as long as he is not beeing a real pain in this channel it doesnt matter that he is insulting, threatening and plain just demotivating users and ops in other channels" policy.
[21:45] <k1l_> i really dont think that is CoC compliant
[21:47] <valorie> IF he is not a problem, k1l_
[21:50] <ikonia> the basic routing issue he has should be a doddle for an RHCE
[21:51] <Unit193> k1l_: "Don't fix what's not broken", tends to mean the line is quite tight on him, but if he doesn't do anything bad no point banning.
[21:53] <valorie> if he started any crap in #kubuntu I would mute him as soon as I noticed
[21:53] <valorie> that said, if he was polite and helpful, I would just let him be
[22:46] <hggdh> I wondered how it would take for him to go back to standard behaviour
[23:19] <ikonia> so it would appear he's still ranting on about this in other channels
[23:20] <ikonia> and doesn't understand basic networking such as the link-local address range and fall back
[23:20] <ikonia> I suspect pretty much everything he's saying is bluff
[23:21] <popey> i gave up when he couldn't do simple things like pastebin things
[23:21] <dax> which other channels?
[23:21] <ikonia> for someone as skilled, certified and experienced as he claims, he's lacking the basics in every department
[23:21] <ikonia> ##networking
[23:22] <dax> b/c i would not call his messages in #xubuntu ranting personally
[23:22] <dax> ah
[23:22] <ikonia> everytime someone asks a question he doesn't know the answer to, he blames ubuntu, the operators and the fact that I don't know how to compile a kernel
[23:22] <ikonia> despte the fact that I've never spoken
[23:22] <ikonia> so it would appear he's trying to provoke for sport
[23:22] <ikonia> and hide his lack of knowledge