[00:12] bluesabre, btw, if i didn't pass the info to you yet and you didn't catch it, we have an ACK for the community wallpaper upload without any extra paperwork as long as it lands before the final freeze [00:14] with that, i'm off for today [00:14] see you tomorrow [00:19] bluesabre: Can we keep -hinted too, please? :'( [00:26] bluesabre, this weekend doesn't look good for me, but I don't think I really need to be there. [00:35] krytarik: testing currently, hard to test without pushing directly to meta [00:35] krytarik: is -cjk not hinted? [00:35] jjfrv8: alrighty, np [00:53] bluesabre: The two cover different scripts, anyway. :D [00:59] ah, was under the impression that -cjk was just more unicode complete [01:07] I think it'd make sense at that point to add the whole 'fonts-noto' package, though. [01:14] ...Can we keep the huge ones out? :P [01:18] seemingly not [01:26] alrighty [01:26] so add * (fonts-noto-hinted) back to the seed and leave -default-settings as-is [01:26] should make everybody happy [01:28] krytarik, Unit193: sound agreeable? [01:28] Yeah. [01:29] Leaves out Mono, but oh well. :P [01:29] Presuming that leaves -hinted with x-d-s, yeah. Though I do like me some -noto-mono. :P [01:29] yeah, we don't use that though (for now) [01:29] yes [01:30] Yeah, Dejavu Mono. [01:30] Uhh.. Wow, that's so much worse than I remembered. >_< [01:30] After this operation, 115 MB of additional disk space will be used. [01:32] yup [01:32] but hey, build-essential is gone now :D [01:32] That's big enough to replace firefox. [01:32] "Committed revision 999." [01:32] oh boy [01:33] and running germinate [01:33] bbiab [01:36] Speaking of which, anyone else use thunar-dropbox-plugin? [09:11] knome, slickymaster: are -docs translations ready to upload? [09:14] bluesabre, both finnish and portuguese user-docs translations are at 100% [09:14] spanish is missing 16 strings [09:14] german 73 [09:15] french 274 [09:15] es.po 98.1714%, ru.po 91.8857%, de.po 91.6571% [09:15] oh right russian missing 71 [09:16] i guess the situation is what it is [09:16] bluesabre, so; ack from me for the upload [09:17] knome, how do i help in translation? [09:17] tracker9, https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs [09:18] Seems we need a bigger disclaimer that we can't approve strings. [09:18] tracker9, but you need to be a member of a translation team, and that's another question... [09:18] indeed [09:18] i'll send a reminder mail to dpm [09:18] sigh [09:18] knome, but can i make a suggestions in translation without being a member? [09:18] Amusingly, de and ru are in the lead with contributor docs. [09:20] Btw, which version of xserver is present in 16.04? [09:22] !info xorg xenial [09:22] xorg (source: xorg): X.Org X Window System. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.7+13ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 54 kB [09:23] !info xserver-xorg xenial [09:23] xserver-xorg (source: xorg): X.Org X server. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.7+13ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 55 kB, installed size 240 kB [09:24] Unit193, the same, the same :P [09:24] knome: Yeah, trying to hit another. It is 1.18.3 [09:24] 'xorg-server' is the source package.. [09:25] So it is bundled with the latest one? [10:37] !team | at any time you have some free time, please check out http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-cloud and add your comments about the cloud services [10:37] ubottu, ping [10:37] pong [10:37] pong! [10:37] oh right, url [10:38] !team | at any time you have some free time, please check out the ubuntu pad named "xubuntu-mm-cloud" and add your comments about the cloud services [10:38] at any time you have some free time, please check out the ubuntu pad named "xubuntu-mm-cloud" and add your comments about the cloud services: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193 [10:59] !team | Next community meeting is scheduled for Sunday, 10 April 2016 16:00 UTC [10:59] Next community meeting is scheduled for Sunday, 10 April 2016 16:00 UTC: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193 [10:59] * bluesabre did his part [10:59] :D [10:59] won't be able to be there :p [11:00] Likely not. [11:01] hard to accommodate all of us :D [11:06] knome: wasn't expecting to see changes in the docs other than translations - do we need a freeze exception? [11:22] bluesabre, what changes are there? [11:32] knome: changes to user and contributor docs [11:32] https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/revision/570 - https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/revision/571 - https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/revision/572 [11:33] time to head to work, more uploads tonight [11:34] flocculant: got some fixes in the pipeline for menulibre, probably be seeing those soon [11:35] bluesabre, hmm, indeed.. [11:36] i guess it would only need a string freeze exception, if any [11:37] yup, care to get that for me today, translation freeze is today [11:38] no exceptions required (see #ubuntu-release) [11:39] knome: great [11:39] Unit193: if you're bored and want an upload, you can tackle -docs today, or I'll get to it this evening [11:39] \o/ [11:39] -> [11:40] hooray for Unit193 doing the upload! [11:40] (: [11:46] bluesabre: nice and nice and nice :p [18:46] evening all [18:46] how're things? [18:48] hey ochosi - good break I hope :) [18:52] phew, quite a few submissions to vote on [18:53] seems so [18:56] and quite a few +5/-5 [19:00] knome: hm, i think i voted on all of them, but it seems i only have 91/92 [19:00] ochosi, now you found the last one [19:02] Unit193, around? [19:03] dkessel, very likely you aren't around, but ping? [19:07] ochosi, want to figure out what to do with the selection now? [20:11] knome: can do [20:12] knome: seems we have 10 submissions with 0 or more points [20:13] ok [20:13] so my suggestion is: [20:13] make any that has >0 autowin. [20:14] after that, from those which received a total of 0, select those that bring the winners to the most variable selection [20:14] in color, contrasts, subject etc [20:14] and maybe even - submitters [20:15] who decides that is a different question [20:15] of course another option is to set up a community poll to select N from the zeroes, but that would mean we should get it started NOW [20:17] is there really time though? [20:18] knome: Now, yes. [20:20] flocculant, i don't think so, which i've kind of feared the whole time [20:20] mmm [20:20] yeah, it's a bit late for a poll imo [20:20] we were too late doing something again [20:21] we were too late doing something again I guess [20:21] "make any that has >0 autowin." +1 [20:21] flocculant, stuff is ready for the next time now though :) [20:21] Unit193, have you voted on http://contest.xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/The_Sky_Is_The_Limit-1024x686.jpeg ? [20:21] that said if "10 submissions with 0 or more points" [20:21] what's the issue with using 10? [20:21] Unit193, it is missing one vote, either from you or dkessel [20:21] flocculant: yeah, i was thinking the same [20:21] i would just go with that actually [20:21] well, we said 6 [20:22] I thought so. [20:22] Unit193, can you double check? :) [20:22] oh ok then [20:22] well, obviously it won't create much fuss if we select 10 [20:22] well [20:22] we could change it :) [20:22] yeah, likely [20:22] knome: yea [20:22] Yes. [20:22] but then it's 10% of the submissions [20:23] (^ not an argument either way, just pointing out) [20:23] and tbh - if we had 20 with >0 then I could see a need to trim it [20:23] i'll let the XPL decide [20:23] after all, if all >=0 are selected, both of my submissions are through :P [20:24] mine too! :D [20:24] otoh, if only 6 are selected, only one of them could likely survive [20:24] ....which is why i think it would be fair to trim too. [20:24] well [20:24] the grab addresses from lp thingymajig still works :p [20:24] if it was trimmed to 6 and "only one winner per submitter", then it would be a task of voting 1 from 2 and 1 from 3 [20:25] so not a huge issue anyway [20:25] the biggest problem is coming up with a reasonable way of trimming [20:25] right, that would be an ok solution too [20:25] if we pick all then, then there are two winners with 2 submissions and one with 3 [20:25] but anyway, i think 10 images are fine too [20:25] which might not feel fair for other contestants [20:25] especially since 2 of those happen to be team members. [20:26] true, wouldn't be without precedent though (i think that was the case last time too) [20:26] ochosi, variety in selection [20:26] ^ for "a reasonable way of trimming" [20:26] or die roll. [20:26] :P [20:26] knome: perhaps so - but it's all of team voting - and I didn't take any notice of *where* something came from [20:27] flocculant, of course - you couldn't :) [20:27] and tbh, i didn't care about the origin either - one shouldn't [20:27] then the argument to not falls down [20:27] yeah, which is why i think it's even ok as it is [20:27] flocculant, not really, it might still feel unfair that first we say 6 submissions can win, then we expand to 10 and suddenly one contestant gets 3 submissions in [20:27] personally i wouldn't overthink this and say: these 10 came out on top, let's take them [20:28] well, let me give one more argument for stripping [20:28] alright then [20:28] if we strip to 6 without limiting the winning submissions a person can have, it's possible that the one with 3 winners (if all 10 are picked) doesn't get any in [20:29] not sure i get the argument part there [20:29] well [20:29] that just seems to be a fact [20:29] it's still about the subjective fairness [20:30] and what happens if only the *top* of any one submitters submissions get's through [20:30] flocculant, then we have 6 winners from the bunch of 10 [20:30] flocculant, well except that the "top 3" for the one that has 3 entries are all level [20:30] so there's necessarily not a difference [20:30] i think i'm the only submitter to whom that applies [20:30] yep [20:31] knome has two zeros and mike has three [20:31] (and no, i'm not trying to drop ochosi's other submission out) [20:31] personally I think we're in danger of getting our knickers in a twist over nothing here :) [20:31] knome: yeah, please don't coz it [20:31] 's perrty! [20:31] :) [20:31] let's put it this way: [20:31] i'd rather get one of my submissions dropped than winning with two [20:31] just because we decided to pick 66% more [20:31] let's put it this way: [20:31] you can always change your vote on one of them ;) [20:32] ochosi, let me change my votes so that i actually pick which one of the ten win... [20:32] we used to have gmb - now we don't - we changed our minds - not sure why it's an issue if we say 10 instead [20:32] we just changed our minds :) [20:32] flocculant, we didn't say "gmb will be the default player for 16.04" [20:33] didn't say we did [20:33] flocculant, we did say that "we will pick 6 winners" though [20:33] we can also just take 4 and have changed our minds [20:33] i think it's fair to pick 6 (and exactly 6) [20:33] knome: there could have been 100 nsfw things - we would have 0 [20:33] but yeah, i sort of agree with flocculant on the whole knickers topic [20:33] ha ha [20:33] ochosi, TMI [20:33] not sure I'll bring that up again :p [20:34] knome: https://xkcd.com/1369/ [20:34] knome: team could have all just voted for 3 [20:34] true [20:34] with everything else - [20:34] flocculant, of course. [20:34] how would we get 6 :) [20:35] we wouldn't. [20:35] that's not how this vote worked ;) [20:35] this vote worked like "upvote everything you want in" [20:35] :P [20:35] yup [20:35] and those with positive points have got more upvotes than not [20:35] yeah, it wasn't designed to get exactly 6 [20:35] and if all of had just upvoted 3 images [20:35] so they are definitely winners, we can't drop any of those [20:36] * ochosi goes to change all of his votes *now* [20:36] flocculant, then we would have went to the minuses :P [20:36] i still think we should pick exactly 6 [20:36] I still think - danger of exploding knickers [20:36] all positives, one 0 from me and one 0 from mike [20:36] this isn't even overthinking [20:37] it's just "one winner per contestant" [20:37] where contestant is submitter, not author [20:37] yes [20:37] indeed [20:37] which is where i feel that logic fails a little [20:37] well [20:37] who's mike anyway? [20:38] flocculant, somebody from the community :) [20:38] flocculant: mike's a winner baby ;) [20:38] oic [20:38] I thought I read they'd voted :p [20:38] that got past me ... [20:38] i don't think anybody knows him here [20:38] ochosi, in all truth, the next contest we run i will try to get a "only own work" policy in the terms... [20:39] that let's us skip this "it feels our logic fails" part [20:39] knome: sure, we sort of had that previously (implicitely at least) [20:39] because obviously mike could have told 10 of his friends to submit different work of his [20:39] yeah, so one per author then? [20:40] i'm fine with that too if it's 6 total. [20:40] well you know it isn't [20:40] and what if it's not? [20:40] ;'( [20:40] and as i said before, i don't think that it's that which counts [20:40] why 6 btw? [20:40] because we said we will pick 6... [20:40] arbitrary iirc [20:41] we picked 6 the last time. [20:41] could have been 5 or 7 [20:41] so it made sense to keep with that [20:41] until now ... [20:41] :p [20:41] quoting for truth: "After the submission deadline, the Xubuntu team picks 6 winners from all submissions which will get included on the Xubuntu ISO and available for all Xubuntu users." [20:41] :P [20:41] from http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-04-wallpaper-competition/ [20:42] we could have said "at least 6" if we wanted to make sure we can do whatever we want [20:42] i think 6 is also about the right amount [20:42] we're not voting on something liefe or death here [20:43] i don't remember the thinking process from the last time, but clearly we thought 6 was a good number back then too :) [20:43] flocculant, indeed not - so let's keep it as 6 as we said ;) [20:43] we can just say "Given the choices we had and the voting the team made, we ended up with 10 we couldn't easily decide between - so we've gone for 10' [20:43] we didn't even try to decide [20:43] perhaps before it was a space on iso thing [20:44] space issues are still space issues [20:44] granted, 4 wallpapers isn't a huge hit, but it's the small hit on top of everything else we have [20:44] and if we're not caring about 120Mb font packages that are only really useful for some people ... [20:45] well, that's a different discussion for other people to decide on [20:45] ok, partly the same people, but here, not me [20:46] anyway - whatever ochosi says is good to go works for me - because all 6 (or 10) will be a pointless bandwidth thing for me anyway :) [20:46] the more i think why i think it should be 6 and not 10, the more i feel like it's because it's fair there's can be only one winning submission per submitter [20:46] sry, was afk on baby duty [20:47] \o/ [20:47] :) [20:47] good man :p [20:47] i did my duties earlier in the day... [20:47] I did mine years ago [20:48] knome: the way i remember last time we had lots and lots of mediocre/bad submissions and we picked the 6 we felt we could actually ship... [20:48] and we had really long discussions about the results [20:48] ochosi, maybe [20:49] maybe? [20:49] i said earlier i don't remember [20:49] sounds like something I could say happened without being there :D [20:49] i don't think that one submission per submitter is "fair" in any sense of "fairer" than taking more of one [20:50] plus for me it's about *authors* if you wanna make it about fairnes [20:50] Hello ! I'm not a dev but can i See the ten wallpapers you like ? [20:50] s [20:50] if someone submits >1 good pics that are not by him why care? those are still good picks [20:50] ochosi: and enough -team agreed it was [20:51] yeah [20:52] Hoscko: so if you're not in Xubuntu Team - but have a vague idea what we're talking about - as someone from the community - would you care if we chose 10 instead of the 6 we said we would? [20:53] Hoscko: currently the wallpaper submissions aren't all publicly visible [20:54] Well I would say that people who choose to use Xubuntu would like to have more choice. But there is a space limit in the iso as I've understood ? [20:54] there is only a soft limit [20:54] we skipped the 1GB limit we previously had [20:55] but yeah, we try to stay as low as we reasonably can [20:55] And considering we hav -cjk, I don't think the limit matters. :/ [20:56] I said that sort of already :) [20:56] How much bigger are we actually even talking? [20:56] you mean for the wallpapers? [20:56] 4 images [20:56] around 6mb or so [20:56] (my guess) [20:57] depends if we push original size, or just 2560x1600 [20:57] if original, then likely more [20:57] If there's a soft limit, I would say let's go for ten, people just love having cool wallpapers. [20:58] pleia2, ping [20:59] knome: i'd go with 2560x1600 [20:59] Indeed. [21:00] I don't think there's a lot of people having bigger resolution [21:00] we're in a bit of a pickle either way, limiting the selection to 6 now might feel arbitrary to the ones who voted, "upgrading" to 10 might feel arbitrary to others (knome at least) [21:02] Let's go fully arbitrary, let's take 8 XD [21:02] Hoscko: we're considering that too (; [21:03] i'd say 7.5 would be the best [21:03] 9.5 [21:03] 9.1 [21:03] 7.7 [21:04] ochosi: you shouldn't be mucking about - we're waiting for you to close your eyes and type 6 or 10 :p [21:04] haha [21:05] if i knew the python random number generator generated *really* random numbers, i'd ask it [21:05] ubottu: random 6 10 [21:05] 6 [21:05] Unit193: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [21:05] ubottu is the best [21:05] knome: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [21:06] no, not intelligent, just the best [21:06] ubottu: random 6 10 [21:06] ochosi: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [21:06] Is there any way for me to see the selection ? Maybe some are similar ? [21:06] Unit193: you seem to be on better terms with him ;) [21:06] ubottu, random 6 6 [21:06] 6 [21:06] knome: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [21:06] !! [21:06] must be 6... [21:07] ochosi: Yeah, us bots, gotta stick together. [21:07] :D [21:08] us bots and knome [21:08] * ochosi feels sorry for european bots [21:08] and non-ubuntustudio bots too [21:09] ok, fine; i'm ok to include all 10 [21:09] who contacts the winners? [21:10] oh right, me [21:10] (: [21:10] knome: i'm ok with waiting for more team members to have their say too [21:10] as long as we don't wait too long (maybe a day or so) [21:10] if we're as split on this issue as we are on the "top 10" we can have yet another vote! :D [21:11] i'd like to hear pleia2's comments too, but as the decision is ultimately yours, i don't think it makes much difference if you don't think you can be convinced with 6 [21:11] \o/ [21:11] * ochosi waits for his time as the big tie-breaker [21:11] ochosi, start eating then [21:11] that was for the vote comment btw :p [21:11] can't be the big breaker if you aren't big [21:12] knome: waiting is ok, i'm open to 6 too. but as i said, with what we discussed so far i'm leaning to 10 [21:12] ochosi, i guess the other question is - when will you be around the next time? [21:12] tomorrow during the day [21:12] ok, then let's do so [21:12] around 9 to 4 or so (my time, that is) [21:12] i can even start an email thread where people can say what they think [21:12] sure, whichever way you see fit [21:12] not a vote or anything, just to gather feedback [21:12] as long as i don't have to read walls of text [21:13] ha ha ha [21:13] of course you have to (: [21:13] * ochosi facepalms [21:13] i can add a policy "no walls of text" [21:13] ochosi, team only? want to show the top 10 or not? [21:13] "your feedback is limited to *one* wall of text per submitter, not author." [21:14] ochosi, so i can send my mum's wall of text? [21:14] ochosi, i'll let you know you wouldn't want that. [21:14] ochosi, it's in finnish to begin with [21:14] i.e. feel free to send me your favorite wittgenstein quotes [21:14] ochosi, and not related to the contest [21:14] knome: yeah, the voters for now [21:14] those can see the results anyway [21:14] ochosi, so essentially one per submitted? :P [21:15] ochosi, nope, only -website actually [21:15] oh [21:15] hmm [21:15] though i can make -team admins now so everybody can see it [21:15] you can also attach a screenshot of the list ;) [21:15] or a list of winner urls [21:15] :P [21:15] yeah, any of that is fine [21:15] that's what i was asking [21:16] do we want to share that list with all or not? [21:16] all is public? [21:16] (in the sense that is it meaningful) [21:16] i would only share it with -team as i'd rather not create the illusion that it's a community vote/decision [21:17] (as we ruled that out before because of the timeline) [21:17] if you don't think the submitters/authors matter, then we can make team admins; if you think it matters; then not [21:17] sure, i'll send off any list [21:17] since the walls of text are too obvious if i send to list [21:17] since our discussion focused on submitters/authors it would seem strange to not share that information [21:17] oki [21:17] i'll make everybody admins then [21:18] k then [21:18] just a minute while i push the switch [21:18] thnks [21:18] and done [21:18] non -website -team members might need to reloing [21:18] relogin too [21:18]