[05:21] <zequence> zsyncing the ISO now. Still no change to ubiquity
[05:39] <zequence> Seems to install, and seems like everything is where it's supposed to be
[05:52] <zequence> Just realized the slideshow was still saying we include shotwell, so removed that
[06:19] <zequence> I'm not going to bother with this, so if someone else would like to fix this, be my guest. I'm about done with this cycle now.
[06:19] <zequence> Bug 1569697
[08:57] <cub> What was the channel for off topic?
[09:32] <sakrecoer> cub: #ubuntustudio-offtopic
[09:33] <sakrecoer> my tired eyes red 'zequencing the iso now'
[09:34] <sakrecoer> i think kryten had a fix but i also know he is busy elsewhere atm... i'll see if i can reach out and let him radiocontrol me :D
[09:35] <sakrecoer> re: bug 1569697
[15:24] <sakrecoer> i've got a few very insightfull hints from krytarik about the lightdm issues, but he lacks time to assist me in doing it.. i understand about 77% of what needs to be done... anyone want to join me in squashing the bug? :)
[15:25] <krytarik> sakrecoer: Huh?  I said it's not about *my* time - doing it right now.
[15:32] <sakrecoer> oh.. sorry, i missunderstood... not sure i grasp the difference.. however, i didn't mean to put a wrongfull light on you...
[16:12] <OvenWerks> checking new alsa-utils package. Some new QT5 stuff too.
[16:28] <OvenWerks> zequence: despite your email, the list of updates in the past few days is quite long :)
[16:29] <OvenWerks> though I do expect our changes will be low.
[16:31] <zequence> OvenWerks: Right, there may be some changes to the base stuff
[16:32] <zequence> But, nothing in particular to the multimedia stuff, I would think, other than subsystems and pulseaudio
[16:37] <zequence> OvenWerks: Did the alsa-utils thing get fixed?
[16:39] <OvenWerks> zequence: not sure yet, have to reboot again. The /run/alsa directory is still not there, but there is not a message about alsa in dmesg this time.
[16:40] <OvenWerks> zequence: the plymouth theme is much nicer. But on boot it goes by so fast as not to be seen :)
[17:02] <OvenWerks> zequence: alsa-utils is still not working. /run/alsa still does not exist.
[17:23] <OvenWerks> zequence: but then it did not exist in older versions than x either. 
[17:26] <OvenWerks> zequence: alsa re/store has changed signifcantly from 14.04.
[17:29] <OvenWerks> even from early 16.04
[17:48] <OvenWerks> will try by manually creating /run/alsa.
[18:00] <OvenWerks> zequence: tried manually creating /run/alsa... vanishes on reboot.
[18:01] <sakrecoer> was about time i tried the gnome-software center :D completly passed me by somehow..
[18:09] <sakrecoer> (that would have been a good candidate for "favourites")
[18:09] <sakrecoer> good thing we kept greybird, the gnome window doesn't look to foreign next to it
[18:15] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: why would you put a software installer in favourites?
[18:17] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it gets high use... (well once use to install synaptic) right after install... after which it never gets used again.
[18:17] <zequence> Software should have been put in favorites. We could still do it, though it's not exactly a critical bugfix
[18:17] <OvenWerks> favourites should only have applications people use almost every time they use the computer
[18:18] <zequence> Well, software is likely one of those
[18:18] <zequence> ..not counting nerds like us
[18:18] <OvenWerks> not after the first few days.
[18:18] <zequence> People don't even know it's there
[18:19] <zequence> Two things I'm missing from favorites, just to simplify things for people - software and system settings
[18:19] <OvenWerks> zequence: there is truth in that. It's item lable in the desktp file doesn't help.
[18:19] <OvenWerks> settings has it's own icon already.
[18:19] <zequence> Also, qjackctl has some merit being there
[18:19] <zequence> Yep, but it's not self evident for non XFCE people
[18:19] <OvenWerks> qjckctl +1
[18:20] <zequence> I even didn't know right away where the logoff button was, not being used to Windows style
[18:20] <zequence> Used to having that in the top right corner with the system functions
[18:20] <OvenWerks> certainly settings in favourites would mirror the system appliactions menu.
[18:21] <OvenWerks> I think xubuntu has software in settings.
[18:21] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: settings is always visible
[18:22] <sakrecoer> it's got super-favourite status :)
[18:22] <zequence> I wouldnt' care too much about duplicating things. Better it is really simple to find the important stuff
[18:23] <sakrecoer> :) yeah :) i was reflecting about software because it took we a while to find it first, until i searched...
[18:23] <sakrecoer> it's got a new name appart from having a new icon
[18:23] <sakrecoer> s/we/me
[18:24] <zequence> Don't think a regular user appreciates the amount of difficulty a new user may have
[18:25] <OvenWerks> zequence: I was wrong, xuxbuntu has software in favourites.
[18:25] <OvenWerks> So we can follow that.
[18:25] <zequence> So, I would put those three there, actually. 1) qjackctl 2) software 3) system settings
[18:25] <sakrecoer> font manager? :p
[18:26] <zequence> Is that something one would use every day?
[18:26] <zequence> qjackctl is a really fundamental tool. You always start with that
[18:26] <OvenWerks> zequence: it is one right click to remove something from favourites after one gets tired of them :)
[18:26] <sakrecoer> if you work with graphcis, and have as many fonts as we distribute, you would use it a lot... but i'm not convinced it qualifies, so i'd say it doesn't
[18:27] <zequence> Also, should we disable the hover thing? Not sure how Xubuntu does that
[18:27] <OvenWerks> zequence: I like hover because it means less clicks to get somewhere.
[18:27] <sakrecoer> xubuntu has the hover off last time i checked... i for one would like it removed
[18:27] <OvenWerks> I think I added that. feel free to take it out.
[18:28] <OvenWerks> hover is sort fo second best to using the applications menu.
[18:29] <OvenWerks> The applications menu is faster than whisker. But if people like whisker that is fine too.
[18:29] <zequence> Ok, so I'll prepare two bug reports, just to be pedantic about the two changes that we are making
[18:29] <zequence> So, anyone disagree with adding the three favorites I mentioned?
[18:30] <sakrecoer> i'm in favour
[18:31] <OvenWerks> as discussed. my likes are not important I agree it will help newbys
[18:32]  * OvenWerks will not be using whisker as his daily application starter.
[18:32] <sakrecoer> your likes _are_ important OvenWerks :)
[18:32] <sakrecoer> but i get your point
[18:32] <zequence> Heck, I don't even use Ubuntu Studio as my daily system. But, I do use it in my studio
[18:32] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: to a point, but ease of use for first time users is more important.
[18:33] <zequence> First Bug 1570051
[18:34] <sakrecoer> i use ubuntustudio all day everyday :3
[18:34] <sakrecoer> i also happen to be the newbiest of us all :D
[18:34] <zequence> I'm a Debian/Gnome person myself
[18:35] <zequence> I do rather use Ubuntu Studio in the studio. It comes alive there
[18:35] <sakrecoer> nice diaporama fix zequence. maybe we could have made a new screenshot of "software" but it would also imply changing the text.. and it works as is..
[18:36] <OvenWerks> My personal desktop is US, but there is a server, two xubuntus and a kubuntu as well. (plus a raspian)
[18:36] <sakrecoer> ah, servers and rasps :p they work alone, if not they are badily configured :D
[18:36] <zequence> OvenWerks: What do you have on your server? ubuntu?
[18:37] <OvenWerks> zequence: yes. 14.04
[18:37] <zequence> I actually use Ubuntu for my Steam machine as well, but for servers, only Debian
[18:37] <sakrecoer> my servers also run ubuntu
[18:37] <sakrecoer> main one is still 12.04 tho. the 14.04 one is collecting dust on a shelf atm
[18:38] <OvenWerks> the server is headless and cli only.
[18:38] <zequence> I have one rasbian too
[18:38] <sakrecoer> i put osmc on my my rasp
[18:38] <zequence> Bug 1570052
[18:38] <OvenWerks> the RPi is going to be the brain for my HW control surface.
[18:39] <sakrecoer> nice OvenWerks ! :)
[18:39] <zequence> Oh, please confirm both bugs, just to be sure
[18:40] <OvenWerks> done, both confirmed
[18:41] <zequence> Thanks
[18:41] <OvenWerks> zequence: I will also add it to the iso tracker.
[18:44] <OvenWerks> zequence: I have added it to post install on the QA site so it will show in the "bugs to watch for" area.
[18:44] <zequence> OvenWerks: Ok, thanks.
[18:45] <zequence> I'll be making the changes right away and uploading. With a little luck, they will have passed through before tomorrows build
[18:45] <OvenWerks> good.
[18:45] <zequence> If anyone would like to take a look at the lightdm bug, pleas do
[18:45] <sakrecoer> it seems kryten is fixing the lightdm bug
[18:45] <zequence> Oh, nice
[18:45] <sakrecoer> yes! <3
[18:46] <zequence> krytarik: Is that true? Cause, then I'll wait with uploading until you're done
[18:46]  * OvenWerks didn't notice something wrong with lightdm.
[18:46] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: no background on first boot
[18:47] <sakrecoer> also the icon-theme is missing..
[18:47] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Ah, no default bg then.
[18:47] <sakrecoer> i should probably file a bug for that one...? because i think krytarik is fixing that too..
[18:48] <zequence> sakrecoer: That would be good, yeas
[18:48] <OvenWerks> I just wish it span screens though :)
[18:48] <sakrecoer> ok, going at it :)
[18:49] <zequence> sakrecoer: When I do these bug reports, I just go to http://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio and report it there. Then, I repurpose it for the package in question
[18:49] <zequence> If it were a linux bug, I would use the terminal, in comparison, to gather all the info about the system. Also
[18:50] <sakrecoer> ok, i'll do like that then :)
[18:50] <zequence> If I need a sponsor, I'm more particular with the bug reports
[18:50] <zequence> In this case, it's good to have bug reports so that the archive admin can see that I'm not uploading junk
[18:52] <sakrecoer> zequence: by "repurposing"... what do you mean? Changing the "Affects" field?
[18:53] <zequence> sakrecoer: Exactly
[18:53] <zequence> sakrecoer: Put the package name under "Package" and save
[18:53] <zequence> or, next to, to be more precise
[18:54] <sakrecoer> lightdm gives me loads of results ...
[18:54] <sakrecoer> but it is ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme right?
[18:55] <sakrecoer> or is it ubuntustudio-default-settings ?
[18:55] <zequence> sakrecoer: It's the theme, but, we seem to have somewhat duplicate stuff in -default-settings
[18:56] <zequence> So, I would use ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme in this case. If there are fixes in both packages, the bug will be mentioned in both
[18:56] <sakrecoer> ok thanks! :)
[18:56] <zequence> sakrecoer: Right, you could add more packages, if you want. But, I'm not sure if both are involved
[18:57] <sakrecoer> Bug #1570056
[18:58] <zequence> A worse problem, btw. Just noticed. The keyboard layout in lightdm is in English for me
[18:58] <sakrecoer> ooops..
[18:59] <zequence> We've had that in the past, but we fixed it by removing a package
[18:59] <zequence> I'll report that too. I wouldn't know right away how to fix it though
[19:01] <sakrecoer> zequence: you didn't change lightdm theme to numix it appears? i'm with it anyways, since we keep the greybird windows.
[19:01] <sakrecoer> i'm *fine with it
[19:03] <zequence> sakrecoer: No, I didn't. Next time maybe we can work out those details a little sooner. Felt like it wasn't worth stressing this time
[19:04] <zequence> Actually, I'll need to double check the keyboard layout
[19:05] <sakrecoer> i like it better likeit is now. i mean, i was out for "consistency" anyways :D
[19:05] <sakrecoer> doesn't make sense to have dark dialog boxes and bright app windows in my world :D better bright windows, period :)
[19:05] <zequence> Yep, the keyboard layout in my newly installed system is US English
[19:06] <zequence> Let's try to fix our own dark theme for next release, or at least before the next LTS
[19:07] <zequence> One thing I would like to get rolling is backports, so I will probably do that as a hobby this summer.
[19:07] <zequence> (though, I need to check what snappy means in the infrastructure of things first)
[19:10] <sakrecoer> zequence, i tried to create a new user with a password with characters that are different between swedish and english and i had no problem
[19:10] <sakrecoer> ah, but i see your chat now :)
[19:10] <zequence> sakrecoer: You should see the keyboard layout at the top bar
[19:10] <zequence> ..of the login window
[19:11] <zequence> Unless you changed it, it should be US English after a fresh install
[19:11] <zequence> If you haven't had that in an older installation, this may be due to a recent change
[19:11] <sakrecoer> i have it in swedish
[19:12] <zequence> We had this problem before. I'll need to look more into it, but don't have time more today.
[19:12] <zequence> Big 1570060
[19:12] <zequence> Bug 1570060
[19:12] <sakrecoer> but i picked swedish in the live-iso menu
[19:13] <sakrecoer> i realized that if i picked english, i had to set it appropriately when selecting the keyboard layout in the install dialogue when installing within a test-session
[19:13] <zequence> This is only in the login window. Not in the desktop session
[19:13] <sakrecoer> yes, yes
[19:13] <sakrecoer> it is in swedish here Sv_se
[19:14] <zequence> So, could be it is quite a recent change that does this then
[19:14] <zequence> Both my recent installs have this problem
[19:14] <sakrecoer> but like i said, if you pick english in the live-boot menu, you have to actively chose swedish layout in the install dialogue after
[19:14] <zequence> Yes, but that part works either way - the desktop gets the right keyboard layout
[19:14] <sakrecoer> i think it is in the order of input panels in the install dialogue
[19:15] <sakrecoer> no, it didn't 
[19:15] <zequence> I did that way too, for one of my installations. Didn't make any difference
[19:15] <sakrecoer> i rebooted, because i had first picked english, and i couldn't type "@" in a terminal
[19:15] <zequence> You're talking about the live ISO now. Not the installation
[19:15] <zequence> If you want to confirm, do a new installation today to find out
[19:15] <sakrecoer> the isntallation from live-boot
[19:16] <zequence> You're talking about the keyboard layout during installation, not after it
[19:16] <zequence> Anyway, I have some work to do now. bbl
[19:16] <sakrecoer> zequence: once installed, i have it in swedish
[19:17] <sakrecoer> but the hole system is in swedish
[19:18] <zequence> sakrecoer: Just do an install today to confirm, ok?
[19:18] <zequence> Otherwise, you are talking about something else
[19:19] <sakrecoer> i just did!
[19:19] <zequence> sakrecoer: You installed today, and the keyboard layout in the login window is in Swedish?
[19:20] <zequence> sakrecoer: Is your language also in Swedish? (mine isn't)
[19:20] <zequence> I have two recent installs with the same problem. One of them I did just a few hours ago
[19:21] <zequence> sakrecoer: Instead of rebooting next time, just go into system settings and change the keyboard layout there. Doing it in the boot menu will have no extra effect
[19:24] <sakrecoer> i installed it 20 minutes ago
[19:24] <sakrecoer> chosing swedish did affect my live-session, and then at install swedsih and swedish layout were already selected
[19:25] <zequence> the live session is irrelevant
[19:25] <sakrecoer> yes i know
[19:25] <zequence> sakrecoer: So, not only your keyboard layout is Swedish, but also the launguage setting, is that right?
[19:25] <sakrecoer> yes
[19:26] <zequence> Ok, so try using English language and Swedish keyboard layout
[19:26] <zequence> That at least gives a clue to the problem
[19:26] <zequence> ..when installing, that is
[19:26] <sakrecoer> ok i will try that
[19:48] <zequence> Probably whatever is selecting the keyboard layout is doing so based on language instead of keyboard layout
[20:49] <krytarik> zequence_, sakrecoer_: Done.
[20:56] <zequence_> krytarik: Ok, thanks. Will check it out
[20:59] <zequence> krytarik: Seems like you really cleaned up that package
[21:01] <zequence> krytarik: What does the option "keyboard=onboard" do?
[21:01] <krytarik> Yep, quite a bit. \o/
[21:01] <krytarik> Link the accessibility thingy to the already installed Onboard.
[21:02] <zequence> Ah, right. Accessibility.
[21:02] <zequence> Ok, going to upload both packages now.
[21:03] <zequence> Some kind of problem with the changelog. 
[21:03] <zequence> krytarik: Did you test build it?
[21:04] <zequence> krytarik: The other one was -default-settings
[21:05] <krytarik> Nope, didn't - no idea what that could be.
[21:07] <zequence> krytarik: April. On my Debian system, it needs to be abbreviated toApr
[21:07] <zequence> "Apr", that is
[21:07] <krytarik> Oh crap.
[21:08] <zequence> I'll fix it.
[21:08] <krytarik> Let me fix that.
[21:08] <zequence> I might as well, since I'm already doing it
[21:08] <zequence> Yep, that was it :)
[21:08] <krytarik> Nah, I want the history right.
[21:09] <zequence> Ok, be my guest then
[21:09] <zequence> krytarik: What are you using to edit the changelog. Not dch?
[21:10] <krytarik> Yeah, doing it manually still. :P
[21:46] <zequence> krytarik: Did you push yet?
[21:48] <krytarik> zequence: Yep, just. :P
[21:49] <krytarik> And sorry for the noise. :3
[21:50] <zequence> krytarik: No problem. But, I would probably start using dch, just to make my life easier :)
[21:51] <krytarik> Yeah, I figure as well - every time I fiddle with that line manually. :P
[21:57] <zequence> krytarik: Hmm, you overwrote the bzr branch. I suppose it is legit to do sometimes, but it means the one who pulls must do the same
[21:58] <zequence> Not exactly the like the linux kernel repo with huge amounts of activity, but could potentially cause some headache
[21:59] <krytarik> Yeah, I know. :3
[22:24] <sakrecoer_> \o/
[22:25] <sakrecoer_> :'3
[22:26] <sakrecoer_> what is "noise" in this context?
[22:27] <krytarik> sakrecoer_: That I had to fix the "April" one - and on top of that '--overwrite'. :P
[22:29] <sakrecoer_> ah, like side-effects, collateral damage to one's time? :D
[22:32] <krytarik> And possibly one's inbox, yes. :P
[22:34] <sakrecoer_> aah of course! collateral damage thing didn't quite sound right in the situation..
[22:37] <sakrecoer_> zsynch is giving me a 7.1% diff since i synched earlier this evening :D is it already uploaded and build?
[22:40] <zequence> sakrecoer_: usually builds at around 20.00
[22:40] <zequence> Or, before. I guess, UTC time. Not sure
[22:41] <zequence> There are rebuilds sometimes too
[22:41] <zequence> ..but not today
[23:31] <sakrecoer> get that weird bug again with the "download updates while installing" geryed out. Says "no internet available" but im writing this from that machine..
[23:32] <sakrecoer> bug 1561716
[23:41] <sakrecoer> hehe, earlier today failed to see shotwell is still in the slides... i guess the slides aren't uploaded yet, zequence ?
[23:53] <sakrecoer> zequence: confirming the keyboard layout bug. it set US english on the login screen.
[23:55] <sakrecoer> system is in english, and i specifically set the layout to swedish. once logged in its all good, but still, the password being hidden and all...