/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/04/14/#kubuntu.txt

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naught101Has anyone else had problems with sleeping after upgrading to xenial? My HP zbook locks up completely as soon as I press sleep - even magic keys don't work, and I have to hard-reset.02:37
naught101Not sure where to look in the logs for info..02:38
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pepeenaught101, what graphics card and system specs?03:31
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naught101pepee: 04:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Opal PRO [Radeon R7 M260] (rev ff),04:02
naught101pepee: the rest is basically the same as http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-zbook-14-mobile-workstation-%28energy-star%29, I think.04:03
naught101Oh, 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics (rev 09) too - not sure which one I'm using right now04:03
pepeenaught101, can't remember how to debug this kind of stuff, other than setting up netconsole and using and external machine to log messages04:09
pepeenaught101, there is a guide in the ubuntu wiki(?) IIRC04:10
naught101Yeah, ok. Just wanted to check whether it was a common thing.04:11
pepeenaught101, I'd ask both ##linux and #radeon (the last one just in case, your system is probably using the intel card... but #radeon could be of help)04:14
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BluesKajHeyas all10:51
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sithlord48g morning #kubuntu12:34
sithlord48i have a problem mounting nfs share on one machine on my network (6 others mount it fine)  one gives me "access denied by server while mountnng"  all machines have the same line added to fstab . the problem machine is 14.04 w/ only thrunderbird and nfs-common rpcbind installed after base install12:36
memphistowhat version is the nfs server12:41
memphistocan you try mount -t nfs -o nfsvers=version_of_the_nfs_you_have12:41
sithlord48memphisto: sorry was afk . its nfs4 , and hat give the same error12:54
sithlord48my fstab line is <IP>:/mnt/storage/data /mnt/data nfs _netdev,rw,sync,auto 0 012:56
sithlord48export is done w/ 192.168.0.1/24 , works on all other machines on the network not sure why its not mounting on this one12:57
memphistohow does the /etc/export look like13:08
sithlord48memphisto: /mnt/storage/data 192.168.1.1/24(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)13:09
memphistocould you try mounting it as nfs313:12
sithlord48SURE13:12
sithlord48weird that works ..13:13
sithlord48memphisto: how can i force nfs3 in fstab?13:14
sithlord48memphisto:  never mind  , thanks its working correctly now . i wonder why this one works as nfs3 when the rest are nfs413:15
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Mz11235I am very new to linux. I am using Kubuntu 15.10.  When I first installed Kubuntu 15.10, my sound was working, but right now (after one day of installing) sound is not working. It doesn't with speaker nor with headphones. And the volume control icon on the system tray is gone too.14:48
telegram<Sick_Rimmit>: Hi Mz11235 and welcome to Kubuntu14:49
telegram<Sick_Rimmit>: Sound managment controls can be found in the Systems Settings Control panel14:49
telegram<Sick_Rimmit>: There are lots of controls and selection choices14:50
Mz11235Thanks, Sick_Rimmit. I have just fixed the problem. Thanks a lot.14:56
AndrewMHello, all15:20
BelzeboobsHello loosers...15:21
AndrewMI'm upgrading from Kubuntu 15.04 to 15.10 and wondering if it's going okay...15:21
BelzeboobsAndrewM: I am huge.15:21
AndrewMThe upgrade window appears frozen...15:22
BelzeboobsHello loosers...15:22
BluesKajBelzeboobs, your insult is even spelled wrong15:22
BelzeboobsBluesKaj: I can't tell you, it's a secret.15:23
AndrewMAnyone able to help on an upgrade question?15:24
BelzeboobsAndrewM: Id give you a silly answer.15:24
AndrewMThe upgrade window is frozen, but I do see that process "wily" is doing something...15:25
BelzeboobsAndrewM: *facepalm*.15:25
BluesKajBelzeboobs, do you have a kubuntu support question?15:26
BelzeboobsBluesKaj: Nope!15:26
AndrewMDoes anyone know if that's normal? I don't want to reboot... but don't know how long to wait.15:27
BelzeboobsAndrewM: Yes.15:27
BluesKajAndrewM, how are you upgrading ?15:28
BelzeboobsBluesKaj: I'm good. What do you want to talk about?15:28
BluesKajBelzeboobs, I don't , I'm here to help with kubuntu , this is not a chit chat room15:29
BelzeboobsBluesKaj: From what?15:29
AndrewMBluesKaj: I used Muon to get everything up-to-date.  Then I rebooted. Then I went back to Muon and it said a new version was available.15:29
BelzeboobsAndrewM: I don't know TV's boring like that.15:29
AndrewMBluesKaj: So I selected the new version and followed the instructions.15:29
BelzeboobsAndrewM: Interesting.15:29
AndrewMBluesKaj: It downloaded everything and went to the "installing updates" part.15:30
BelzeboobsAndrewM: Hello.15:30
AndrewMIt stayed on 0% for a while, never moved off of there.15:30
BelzeboobsAndrewM: We haven't. It's nice to speak to you again.15:30
AndrewMBluesKaj: Then I minimzed the windows and brought them up.15:30
BelzeboobsAndrewM: Both.15:30
AndrewMThe update windoe doesn't refresh.  You know, it shows the desktop background instead of text or anything.15:30
BelzeboobsAndrewM: I is fierce.15:31
AndrewMI see in "top" that the "wily" process is using 2.3 - 2.7% of CPU...15:31
BelzeboobsAndrewM: I would suggest that the egg was first.15:31
sithlord48AndrewM:  try doing the upgrade from the teminal with the command "sudo do-release-upgrade"15:31
Belzeboobssithlord48: I will see my girlfriend.15:31
AndrewMsithlord48: Can I stop the current upgrade? How do I know what its doing?15:32
BelzeboobsAndrewM: Can't you see it's dying?15:32
BluesKajAndrewM, upgrqading from 15.04 is difficult since your packages all have to be up to date which is difficulr sinc ethe repos for 15.04 is no longer in service....I recommend a clean install of 15.10 or wait for 16.04 official release next thurs15:32
BelzeboobsBluesKaj: A long time.15:32
sithlord48AndrewM:  kill it and we will fix it using dpkg15:32
Belzeboobssithlord48: I will be drawing cartoons and comics. It will be the win.15:32
BluesKajsithlord48, this bezel person looks like a bot15:33
BelzeboobsBluesKaj: What do you think?15:33
sithlord48seams so15:33
Belzeboobssithlord48: Exactly, But thats the way I flip My eggs, Sir.15:33
sithlord48honestly AndrewM do you have a seperate home partition?15:33
Belzeboobssithlord48: 654.15:33
sithlord48if so i would just do a fresh install of 16.04 and keep your home partition15:33
BluesKajyup15:34
Belzeboobssithlord48: I would say nothing.15:34
BelzeboobsBluesKaj: Yes.15:34
BluesKajthat would the method to use15:34
BelzeboobsBluesKaj: You knew that?15:34
AndrewMOkay...15:35
BelzeboobsAndrewM: How smart are you?15:35
AndrewMShould wily end up popping back with an error message at some point?15:35
BelzeboobsAndrewM: Hey!15:35
sithlord48AndrewM:  maybe15:36
BluesKaj!ops | Belzeboobs seems to be a bot15:36
ubottuBelzeboobs seems to be a bot: Help! Channel Emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies!) yofel, ovidiu-florin, ahoneybun, Tm_T, Nalioth, Riddell, ryanakca, mneptok, PriceChild, tsimpson, jussi, Pici, ikonia, genii, Mamarok, claydoh, valorie, shadeslayer15:36
Belzeboobssithlord48: Annie are you okay? Annie are you ok? Are you okay annie?15:36
BelzeboobsBluesKaj: Do you enjoy having any emmotions.15:36
Belzeboobsubottu: What else would you like to talk about today.15:36
ubottuBelzeboobs: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)15:36
Belzeboobsubottu: Maybe.15:36
sithlord48AndrewM:  you killed it ? ?? if so be sure to kill all dpkg processes as well15:36
Belzeboobssithlord48: Nothing.15:36
AndrewMsithlord: No, no seperarate home partition...  Just googling that now.  Didn't know you could do that...15:37
BelzeboobsAndrewM: Neither, I prefer spectator.15:37
AndrewMsithlord48: No, I haven't killed anything.15:37
BelzeboobsAndrewM: There are lots of clouds in the sky today.15:37
sekriti like waffles15:37
Belzeboobssekrit: Yeah, waffles are awesome.15:37
sithlord48AndrewM:  back up your user data and do a fresh install w/ 3 partitions one / (no more then 30 GB ) swap that is 1.5x your ram and rest set to /home15:37
Belzeboobssithlord48: A penguin in a blender!15:37
AndrewMsithlord: Yeah, data is already backed up...15:39
AndrewMsithlord: So it's no longer possible to upgrade from 15.04 to 15.10?15:39
sithlord48then save yourself the headace and install a 16.04 daily15:39
sithlord48its not impossible its just alot of stuff plus systemd stuff  add its just a tricky upgrade15:40
Hask0.15:40
AndrewMDamn...15:40
sithlord48do you have alot of packages installed or something?15:40
AndrewMsithlord: Not really...15:40
BluesKajAndrewM, suggest you set up a separate / and /home partition , then you can just install to / and reatian lot of your settings and all your data15:41
sithlord48what BluesKaj said15:41
BluesKajretain even15:41
AndrewMsithlord: And the current Muon screen says I'm completely up-to-date on 15.04 patches/updates...15:41
sithlord48don't do upgrades like that in muon . its not helpful to see why things are taking time or if it fails .15:42
sithlord48instead use the cli program "do-release-uprade"15:42
AndrewMBluesKaj: Is setting up a separate / and /home partition something I can do with the installation DVD?15:42
sithlord48durring the partition step you can  choose manual partition15:42
AndrewMOkay...15:43
sithlord48you will make a / partition (using ext4) no bigger then 30 GB .15:43
sithlord48make a swap that is about 1.5x your ram (or don't i never do ..)15:43
sithlord48then the rest make a /home partiton using ext4 and the rest of your space15:43
AndrewMOkay, thanks...15:44
sithlord48AndrewM:  if your really gun ho on upgrading from 15.04 to 15.10 ill help you but its really faster to just install 16.0415:44
AndrewMNot exactly what to do at this point...  I don't think "wily" is doing anything...  I could kill it and try to CLI do-release-upgrade15:45
sithlord48sure15:45
AndrewMOr reboot rather than killing it...15:45
sithlord48kill it15:45
sithlord48just be warned depending on what it was doing it might not boot again...15:45
BluesKajAndrewM, I recommend using gparted live on cd or usb media15:45
AndrewMYep...15:45
AndrewMI have a complete backup...15:45
AndrewMOkay, I'll reboot.  Fingers crossed...15:46
sithlord48good luck15:46
AndrewMThanks...15:46
AndrewMIt complained that I had to kill the "top" process, but said nothing about "wily"...15:46
AndrewMSeems to have rebooted just fine...15:48
sithlord48ok step one15:49
sithlord48sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade15:49
sithlord48be sure your current realease is upto date before tryin to upgrade15:49
AndrewMWoah, now Muon has a huge number of updates.  It had none before...15:49
sithlord48your repo changed to wily ones i bet15:50
AndrewMYep. That's exactly what happened.15:50
AndrewMI'm trying to do sudo apt update15:51
sithlord48so do the full-upgrade and then you should run sudo apt-get autoremove to remove obsolete packaes15:51
AndrewMKeeps stopping with "dpkg15:51
AndrewM was interuppted"15:51
sithlord48ok weill lets fix that15:51
sithlord48sudo dpkg --configure -a15:52
sithlord48let dpkg finish what it was doing before15:52
AndrewMOkay...15:52
AndrewM"Modified since intallation"15:52
AndrewM"P{ackage distrubtor has shipped an updated version"15:52
sithlord48it it going or it stoped?15:53
AndrewMIt's asking :Install the package maintainer's version or keep the currently-install version?15:53
sithlord48well thats your hang right there from the gui failing to ask15:53
sithlord48what is the file ?15:53
AndrewMOh, it's just /etc/issue15:53
AndrewMDamn.15:53
AndrewMI'll keep the current version.  Makes no difference.15:54
AndrewMNow its going again...15:54
sithlord48yeah if you modified the setting then keep your version if not just use the package mainters version its a config should its not going to explode if you pick the wrong one15:54
sithlord48you might be asked a few times for different files15:55
AndrewMOkay, did the sudo apt update15:55
sithlord48no sudo apt full-upgrade15:55
sithlord48that will unlike regular "upgrade" also install new packages the system needs15:55
AndrewMOkay!15:56
AndrewMSeems to be going...15:56
AndrewMYeah, it's going through the packages now...15:57
sithlord48don't be shocked if it dies at some point and we have to manually run apt-get -f install15:57
AndrewMOkay...15:57
AndrewMYeah, even the status bar has moved to 1% now...15:58
sithlord48well im sure you have lots of upackages that need upgrade..15:58
AndrewMOh man, thank you, sithlord48 and BluesKaj....15:58
sithlord48AndrewM:  your welcome but i still think you should install with a seperate /home and 16.04 (we can upgrade to that next if your feeling lucky)15:59
AndrewMYep, it'll take a while...  But as long as I can see it progressing, I feel better...15:59
AndrewMShit, maybe I spoke too soon...15:59
BluesKajlet's wait til you have it fully upgraded before declaring success :-)15:59
AndrewMIt seem stuck now...15:59
AndrewMOh wait there it goes again...16:00
AndrewMMaybe I should quit looking at it...16:00
sithlord48my upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04 resulted in me installing over my install...16:00
sithlord48lol16:00
sithlord48it should be noted that do-release-upgrade -d does not show 16.04 from 14.04 so i had to do it the manual way..16:01
BluesKajan don't fret, the progressbar will stop intermittently while apt configures other related packages16:01
AndrewMYikes...16:01
BluesKajAndrewM,^16:01
AndrewMWoah, got a pop-up...16:02
AndrewM"Restart services during package upgrades without asking?"  Yes, I guess...  Why would anyone say no?16:02
sithlord48maybe your using that service..16:02
AndrewMUse the computer while upgrading it?  Who is that brave? :)16:03
sithlord48like when i upgrade remote machines via ssh i dont want tthat to restart on me16:03
sithlord48this is not windows you cna use it while it upgrades16:03
AndrewMsithlord: Oh good point about ssh...  Didn't think of that.16:04
sithlord4816.04 is working nicely so far.. btw16:05
BluesKaj16.04 is quite stable now16:06
sithlord48plasma 5.6 really makes the difference (eve on my arch machines it was a noticeable improvement)16:06
AndrewMYeah, this is my work machine...  They scanned it and said that 15.04 is not allowed on the network, so I have to go to 15.10 right away...16:06
AndrewMOtherwise I'd wait for 16.0416:06
BluesKaj15.04 is EOL16:06
sithlord48no need to wair16:06
sithlord48wiat16:07
sithlord48we can upgrade to 16.04 today16:07
AndrewMOh!16:07
BluesKajyup16:07
sithlord48but first you need to upgrade to 15.1016:07
AndrewMYeah, I'll go to 15.10 and then look at doing the partitions the way you mentioned...16:07
sithlord48i fyour gonna do that just stop now and dl the 16.04 iso16:08
sithlord48you are gonna need to do a fresh install anyway to re partition16:08
sithlord48well you don't have to but its easier16:08
sithlord48i suspose you could resize partitions and then change fix up the /etc/fstab afterwards16:09
AndrewMYeah, I don't have a lot of time at the moment...  But  probably next week I can do that...16:09
sithlord48if you see me and you need help just say my name and ill get a notification16:10
AndrewMThanks!  I really appreciate this.16:10
sithlord48your welcome . its good to help others you learn alot that way16:11
AndrewMI think this is the first time I've ever done a version upgrade in Kubuntu. I usually just put it off so long that I have no choice but to do a complete refresh install.16:22
AndrewMsithlord48: Interesting thing, so kded5 just popped up an error because it closed unexpectedly (so it was updated).  I can't close that popup because of that, and I can't put the focus back on the terminal window...  I can see the install is still going though...16:32
AndrewMBut if it prompts me for anything, I'm not sure how I'll respond...16:32
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AndrewMI can still SSH in though...16:35
AndrewMSo if it hangs or prompts me and I can't respond, can I SSH in and safely kill the update process and start it again?16:37
BluesKajupdate only lines up the packages that need upgrading, the upgrade command actually downloads and installs the packages, so one has to be specific about which stage of the proces is active16:41
BluesKajAndrewM, ^16:41
AndrewMBluesKaj: Yeah, that's what I was thinking... So if it's stuck on a prompt, it isn't really doing anything, so it should be okay to end the process?16:42
AndrewM(It hasn't happened yet, I'm just wondering what to do if it happens...)16:43
BluesKajwe'll be here and that depends on what part of the installation, usually you'll have an error about dependencies or some such16:45
AndrewMOkay, thanks!16:46
sithlord48AndrewM:  was afk, can you alt+tab to the konsole window?16:47
AndrewMsithlord48: No, I can only move the mouse, keyboard seems not responsive...16:48
sithlord48ah16:48
AndrewMI can move the mouse but clicking doesn't move the focus from the pop-up back to the terminal window...16:48
sithlord48is it still going?16:49
AndrewMYeah, it's still going...  At 53%...16:49
AndrewMDo you know if it prompts me at the end for something?16:49
sithlord48only if you have config questions.16:49
AndrewMI'm just thinking it may prompt me for something and I can't respond...16:49
AndrewMI can SSH in reboot or kill/restart the process...16:50
AndrewMto*16:50
sithlord48can you switch to a tty ? crtl+alt+F1?16:50
BluesKajonly if you have a script that changed some settings form the default etc16:50
AndrewMOh, I did the Crtl+alt+F1 but now I'm 100% commandline...16:51
sithlord48:D16:51
sithlord48so your keyboard is working..16:51
AndrewMHow do I get back?16:51
sithlord48crtl+alt+F716:51
AndrewMWhew!16:52
AndrewMYes, keyboard works. :)16:52
sithlord48so now no need to ssh if a question :D16:52
AndrewMIt's just the the window focus is on the popup telling me KDE restarted and I can't switch it to the terminal.16:52
AndrewMOh, true.16:53
sithlord48alt+tab16:53
AndrewMNo, Alt+tab and the focus is still on the popup I can't close...16:53
sithlord48alt+f2 bring up krunner?16:54
sithlord48if so try kwin_x11 --replace16:54
AndrewMNo... No krunner16:54
sithlord48you should be fine worst case we can restart the upgrade from a tty16:55
AndrewMsithlord48: Yeah, that's what I figured...  I figured that at a prompt it wouldn't actually be doing anything, so a kill/restart should hurt...16:55
sithlord48just login to the tty and do sudo reboot when the time comes..16:55
AndrewMSounds good...16:56
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AndrewMIt's finished and it didn't prompt me for anything...  I'll tty and reboot...17:14
AndrewMIt worked.  You guys are life-savers. Thank you, sithlord48 and BluesKaj!!!17:19
sithlord48sweet now wanna upgrade to 16.04 ???17:20
AndrewMhahahaha17:20
sithlord48if so try sudo do-release-upgrade -d17:20
AndrewMNext week, when I have more time...  I'm already behind on my work. :)17:20
AndrewMI'll make a note of that though.17:20
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* sick_rimmit Waves17:37
* BluesKaj waves tat sick_rimmit17:38
BluesKajto even17:38
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MichaelTunnellare there any plans for Kubuntu to use Snappy for say 16.10?18:31
MichaelTunnellI would assume 16.04 would be no since they haven't even made a stable release of snappy but just curious about future releases18:31
lordievaderI suppose if Ubuntu moves over to Snappy Kubuntu would eventually follow, but don't quote me on that.18:32
lordievaderyofel might be able to tell you more about that.18:32
ikoniakeep in mind kubuntu is splitting more and more from ubuntu18:41
ikoniaeg the display server debate18:42
ikoniait's pretty much getting to be the base ubuntu debs, and thats it18:42
ikoniaor even "the base ubuntu tool chain"18:42
MichaelTunnellyea I knew the mir vs wayland thing but so far Snappy looks pretty freaking cool :)18:43
EvilRoeyis the idea with Snappy that apps might elect to use either their own rolled-up libs or the system's stock libs?18:43
EvilRoeythat way they can use updated stock libraries as they get updated18:43
EvilRoeyof course stuff looks like it could get incompatible pretty quickly18:43
MichaelTunnellEvilRoey: Snappy is they bypass most system libs and sometimes not even install some libs on teh core18:44
EvilRoeyright18:44
EvilRoeyso let's say a vulnerability gets patched in one of those libs18:44
ikoniasnappy looks poor18:44
MichaelTunnelllike for example X would be a system global lib that an app can use but GTK for example would be bundled in a snap18:44
EvilRoeydoes everyone have to wait till that program gets updated?18:44
EvilRoeybefore the vulnerbaility is patched?18:44
MichaelTunnellEvilRoey: the developer of the snap would have to update the snap18:44
EvilRoeyyeah there we go18:45
EvilRoeyinstead of using standard libs18:45
EvilRoeystandard shared libs, rather.18:45
EvilRoeyMichaelTunnell:  so how has Canonicle proposed to solve this?18:45
MichaelTunnellyes, essentially. This is a pros vs cons debate.18:45
MichaelTunnellneither are correct methods18:46
EvilRoeysee what I mean.. so if a lib that was traditionally a stock shared library has a hole discovered in it, allllll the programs that use it will have to get updated18:46
EvilRoeyok18:46
ikoniano they don't18:46
EvilRoeyhow so18:46
EvilRoey?18:46
ikoniajust the library with the problem does18:46
EvilRoeybut programs ship as fat binaries so they have all the libraries rolled up together18:46
MichaelTunnellshared libs can result in code infecting an entire system. Snap method means that only that one snap would be infected.18:46
ikoniaeg; when ssl was a problem, ssh didn't get an update, libssl did18:46
EvilRoeythat's what my question about Snaps is.18:46
MichaelTunnellor vulnerable rather18:46
EvilRoeyMichaelTunnell:  one snap.  Or more, depending on how many snap packages roll that library up18:47
MichaelTunnellEvilRoey: yes but the snaps are created via snapcraft and can be updated in seconds using YAML files. Changing the version of a snap would take seconds not months like getting stuff updated in a repo.18:47
ikoniano they can't18:48
lordievaderI'd suppose applications will still be dynamically linked to libs.18:48
ikoniathey still have to have the packages built into the snap18:48
MichaelTunnelllordievader: in some cases yes, in others no18:48
ikoniaand it doesn't take months to get things into a repo18:48
EvilRoeythere is this constant, /constant/ shift back and forth called the Wheel of Reincarnation, and it applies to integration/de-integration of components (GPUs moving into CPU dies, then off-boarded again to discrete video cards),18:48
MichaelTunnelllordievader: kind of a hybrid18:48
ikoniaverifying the bug takes the time18:48
ikoniaand testing18:48
ikoniathat would still need to happen with snappy18:48
EvilRoeyand it's also present with virtualization (say, from the idea of virtualizing an entire system with VMWare to now virtualizing only some things but keeping everything on the same kernel, as with containers)18:49
EvilRoeyand there are always movements in both directions18:49
EvilRoeywith everything18:49
MichaelTunnellikonia: I was not referring to bugs with the month thing but any kind of app update. They all takes just a few seconds. Change the value of a parameter in a YAML file and new snap is made and pushed out to users.18:49
EvilRoeyso I see this pattern too with shared libraries, .debs and now snaps18:50
ikoniaerrr no18:50
ikoniathe fix would still need to be made that the snap is made from18:50
ikoniathe yaml just determains what software is built into the snap18:50
ikoniayou don't patch a library in the snap by changing the yaml18:50
ikoniathe library still needs to be updated18:50
ikoniaand it doesn't take months to get things into a repo18:50
ikoniait takes months to do the process of certain bug types18:50
MichaelTunnellikonia: I am not talking about how a bug is fixed . . . I am talking about how a snap would be updated to get said fix.18:50
ikoniaMichaelTunnell: it would be no quicker than a deb being updated18:51
ikoniaifact probably slower on paper18:51
ikoniaas the fix would need to be built then built into a snap then the snap distributed18:51
ikoniawhere as the fix would be in the deb and pushed into the repos18:51
MichaelTunnellikonia: for security bugs yes but for regular updates yea much faster18:51
ikoniano18:51
ikoniaexactly the same18:51
MichaelTunnellnot talking about the format vs format but the infrastructure.18:52
ikoniano different18:52
MichaelTunnellI disagree but alright. Impasse it is. :)18:53
ikoniahow is it different18:53
* BluesKaj sees pissholes in the snow written in yaml :-)18:55
MichaelTunnelllets take a basic app, not related to security holes. App-A wants to make an update to their app in Ubuntu's Repo. They have a 6 month window to get it submitted, tested, approved in order to get it in the repo for a particular Ubuntu release.18:58
MichaelTunnelland thats not a new app added to the repo . . . that's basic version updating.18:58
MichaelTunnellwith Snappy I go into the YAML file and tell it what is different, tell snapcraft to use that file and the source to create a new snap and bam. I'm done. It's available to users.18:59
lordievaderErr, without any testing?19:00
MichaelTunnelllordievader: this is not a "anyone can push code" thing.19:00
MichaelTunnellthere would be testing by the dev and there is automated testing in Snappy19:00
lordievaderThat doesn't mean it doesn't need testing.19:01
lordievaderHmm /me is not convinced.19:01
ikoniaMichaelTunnell: no you don't19:02
ikoniaMichaelTunnell: what you've just said is not true19:02
ikonia6 months window to get it submitted ?19:02
MichaelTunnellyes because they rarely if ever do backports for non"blessed apps.19:03
ikoniathey do back ports when there is a bug and reason19:03
MichaelTunnellexactly19:03
ikonia???19:04
MichaelTunnellhence the 6 months window. If I have a new version that works in 14.04 and I want to push it to the users in January 2015, that's impossible unless it is a significant usability bug.19:04
ikoniawhat ???19:05
ikoniapeople are not going to be bumping versions in snappy every 5 minutes19:05
ikoniathey don't bump versions because they can't they don't bump version numbers without a reason because of the policy19:05
ikoniasnappy won't change that policy19:05
MichaelTunnellOwnCloud tells people to never install the repo version of their app. This 6 month window structure is exactly why they say that.19:06
ikoniasnappy won't change that19:06
ikoniaas again - ubuntu won't just start bumping version numbers19:06
ikoniathey can bump version numbers just fine with debs - they don't because of hte policy19:06
ikoniasnappy won't change that policy19:06
MichaelTunnellthey wont be bumping version numbers because the same snap will work in 16.04 and 16.1019:07
ikoniawhat ?19:07
MichaelTunnellyou are making declarative statements of what will and wont work yet you dont know about the structure to make those statements19:07
ikoniawhat are you talking about19:07
MichaelTunnellwatch the Q&A they did this morning. I asked them about this and they said the same snap would work in both versions.19:08
MichaelTunnellso the 6 month window to getting app updates would be effective removed entirely19:08
ikonia???19:08
ikoniawhat are you talking about this 6 month window19:08
ikoniathat 6 month window is the change freeze19:09
ikoniathey are not going to drop a change freeze ?19:09
MichaelTunnellthe snaps bypass the freeze19:09
ikoniawhy ?19:09
MichaelTunnellthe core would have the freeze still but the snaps won't have to deal with it anymore19:09
MichaelTunnellbecause it's not a good idea to have apps out of date for 2 years19:09
ikonia????19:10
ikoniathat's not their policy though19:10
ikoniaif "its not a good idea" why are they not updating the debs19:10
MichaelTunnellthat is how it has always been structured . . .regardless of policy.19:10
* Pici blinks19:11
ikoniaright - so why would snappy change that policy ?19:11
MichaelTunnelldoes Debian Stable release updates to debs for application updates? Nope. same thing with Ubuntu releases19:11
ikoniaright, so why would they do this with snappy19:11
MichaelTunnellbecause people want apps that were made this year19:11
ikoniabut thats nothing to do with snappy19:11
MichaelTunnellhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHO8j8uo5Z419:11
MichaelTunnellenjoy19:12
ikoniathey "could" update a deb but they don't because of policy19:12
ikoniaso why would they update a snap19:12
MichaelTunnellbecause they aren't updating the snaps... devs control it19:12
ikoniaI thought popey was the community manager19:12
ikoniadevelopers control the debs though19:12
MichaelTunnellthere are multiple community managers19:12
PiciApp developers or19:12
PiciUbuntu developers?19:13
MichaelTunnellApp Devs control Snaps19:13
ikoniaI'm not seeing the logic of how it's different19:14
MichaelTunnellDebs you wait for Ubuntu devs and maintainers to update your app.19:14
MichaelTunnellSnaps you update it yourself.19:15
ikoniaso thats totally out of ubuntu's control then19:15
ikoniaand you're basically pulling in from 3rd parties19:15
ikoniapretty much like PPA's19:15
MichaelTunnellexcept they are vetted unlike PPAs19:15
MichaelTunnellbut effectively yes PPAs Improved19:15
EvilRoeythis will lead to decentralization of packages for sure19:19
EvilRoeyit's basically the same as PPAs19:19
EvilRoeyikonia:  agreed19:19
EvilRoeyAs an information security professional, I foresee that securing a snap system will be more difficult as a result19:20
EvilRoeysecuring and keeping secure *&19:20
EvilRoey*19:20
MichaelTunnellEvilRoey: Snaps are read only squashfs so security is addressed as well19:23
EvilRoeywell I can see how it would be difficult to write to a read-only system but what about vulnerabilities getting discovered as the months roll by19:24
MichaelTunnellit's kind of like hybrid of AppImage, DMGs, PPAs, and Puppy's layer system19:24
MichaelTunnellEvilRoey: the snaps can be replaced very easily . . . it doesnt even require the entire snap to be reinstalled. It works transactionally so only the pieces that need replacing are replaced yet at the same time it has rollback structure as well.19:25
EvilRoeyok19:26
EvilRoeyMichaelTunnell:  so patches to snaps can be replicated to all the installed packages that use that old snap code?19:26
MichaelTunnellas far as I understand it . . . which I admit I'm still trying to figure it out myself. Snaps wont use other snap code. Snaps are essentially independent from each other.19:28
MichaelTunnellthey are contained but not like containers as snaps have some exceptions like X19:29
alf_hi all, I'm running kubuntu with latest updates. with multi-clicking a window or anything fancy my kwin restarts19:35
alf_im using nvidia 650 with proprierty driver19:35
alf_any thoughts on when it will be fixed? (btw i had same problem on another distro running plasma)19:36
Smurphyalf_: Ask NVidia to get it fixed, or use the opensource drives if they work.19:37
ankithi19:40
=== ghostcube_ is now known as ghostcube
=== TheRedQueen is now known as Drone`
funkyjivehey guys ... I am looking to configure a second IP address for my server and I know you normally do that through the /etc/network/interfaces (or at least that used to be the place)  ... but I attempted to do that but it told me that em1 was not a recognized interface21:06
funkyjiveeven though em1 shows up in ifconfig21:06
funkyjiveusing advice similar to this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/547289/how-can-i-from-cli-assign-multiple-ip-addresses-to-one-interface21:07
funkyjivethe only thing in that file when I started was this:21:08
funkyjiveauto lo21:08
funkyjiveiface lo inet loopback21:08
funkyjivebut em1 is clearly initialized and functioning on my system.21:08
funkyjiveso I don't know where the magic is happening.21:08
ildefonsofunkyjive, most likely network-manager or similar process is handling that interface.21:19
funkyjiveildefonso: I just figured that out.21:19
funkyjiveI am going to purge it21:19
funkyjivebut is em1 still my interface or does it go back to eth0 like it used to be?21:19
funkyjiveI think you need a kernel parameter for that, I think.21:20
ildefonsodon't remember, I think it is udev who renames the interface.21:21
ildefonsocheck your udev rules.21:21
funkyjiveI think that worked.21:25
funkyjivewith nework manager gone where is the rest of the network configuration?   for instance, my system still knows the default gateway but I'd like to change it21:26
ildefonsofunkyjive, /etc/network/interfaces, but routing tables are static, so, if you just killed network-manager, it is possible that all the info is still there.21:31
ildefonsoafter reconfiguring a system, specially if you have console access, you should do a final reboot test, to be sure everything comes up as you intend when (in the future) you have to restart the server.21:31
ildefonsoalso, maybe, there is a dhclient process still running.21:32
funkyjiveI think I need to do that21:33
funkyjiveI think you are right.21:33
funkyjivethere is a dhclient running ... I better try a reboot.21:33
ildefonsokill the dhclient21:34
ildefonsokill PIDNumber21:34
ildefonsofunkyjive, you *do* have console access, right?21:34
ildefonsoafter you kill dhclient, you will likely lose network connectivity to/from that machine.21:34
funkyjiveyeah21:34
funkyjiveyeah I am using the machine.21:34
funkyjive:)21:34
funkyjivethat's why I lost connectivity earlier.21:35
funkyjiveI'll give it a go.21:35
funkyjiveI was looking at this:21:35
funkyjivehttp://askubuntu.com/questions/130452/how-do-i-add-a-dns-server-via-resolv-conf21:35
ildefonsoworst case, you can manually bring it back up with "dhclient interface"21:35
ildefonsoit will launch dhclient and configure the specified interface using dhcp.21:35
ildefonsobut, in general, you want to correctly set /etc/network/interfaces21:35
ildefonsoand do a "ifup em1" or whatever the interface name.21:36
funkyjiveif I have multiple IP addresses, can I have a dns-nameserver set for each of them?21:36
ildefonsoyou don't need it21:36
ildefonsojust set it for the main interface, say, eth021:36
ildefonsoyour additional interfaces would be something like: eth0:0, eth0:1, eth0:2 and so on.21:36
funkyjiveright, I have a local nameserver ... I have a VM that runs pfsense for my network21:36
funkyjiveand it serves as a name server but also a request forwarder21:37
funkyjivebut I want my system to be able to resolve names if that VM is down.21:37
ildefonsoyou want more than one nameserver added then21:39
funkyjiveright.21:39
ildefonsomost systems use two or three DNS servers.21:39
funkyjivedns-nameservers 192.168.0.1 8.8.8.8 8.8.4.421:39
ildefonsoand it has become widespread to use 8.8.8.821:39
ildefonsoexactly :P21:39
funkyjiveI f I put that in interfaces21:39
funkyjiveand 192.168.0.1 is down, it should fallback to 8.8.8.821:39
funkyjivebut if 192.168.0.1 is up will it always use it in that preference order?21:40
geniiIt uses them in the order they appear21:40
funkyjiveso if 192.168.0.1 is down, and it switches to 8.8.8.8 .... and then I bring up 192.168.0.1   -- will it automatically detect that and start preferring it?21:41
geniiYep21:41
funkyjiveI say this because 192.168.0.1 has the capacity to resolve names for my local network.21:41
funkyjivecool.21:41
funkyjiveI am going to give this a go.21:41
funkyjivethanks guys.21:41
funkyjiveI will likely lose connectivity :)21:41
funkyjiveI think I am configured the way I need.21:41
funkyjivebut need a reboot to know for sure.21:42
ildefonsogreat!21:47
funkyjivethat worked basically perfectly.22:13
funkyjiveare /dev /proc /run and /sys all in memory kernel file systems?22:47
ildefonsofunkyjive, usually yes.23:01
funkyjiveildefonso:  I am looking to move a software raid0 / to a new nvme23:01
ildefonsonvme?23:02
funkyjiveI have all the partitions and the data copied now23:02
funkyjivehttp://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Series-512GB-PCIe-NVMe/dp/B01639694M23:02
funkyjivenon volatile ram23:02
funkyjiveit is an SSD drive that plugs into a PCI express slot23:02
ildefonsoah23:02
funkyjiveI had 2 SATA3 ssds in a raid0, but now I have one of these things.23:03
funkyjiveand it is more than twice the speed (according to hdparm -Tt)23:03
ildefonsoraid0 is like multiplying by N  your failure probability :P23:03
ildefonsoafk for a while23:04
funkyjiveright23:04
funkyjiveI am just looking to do the right things to make the new partition bootable and stuff.23:04

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