| === bazhang__ is now known as bazhang | ||
| Tm_T | hello everyone | 05:52 |
|---|---|---|
| Tm_T | how are we on this fine thursday morning? | 05:52 |
| Unit193 | Silly Tm_T, it's nearly 2am, it's night. | 05:58 |
| Tm_T | Unit193: is it? that explains a lot | 05:59 |
| valorie | dark here as well | 06:00 |
| valorie | :-) | 06:00 |
| valorie | but good $timeofday to you, Tm_T | 06:01 |
| Tm_T | thursdays ♥ | 06:01 |
| Tm_T | it's been snowing here, spring clearly | 06:02 |
| valorie | we had a week of warm & sunny, lots of rain yesterday | 06:03 |
| valorie | weeds are soooo happy | 06:03 |
| === not_phunyguy is now known as phunyguy | ||
| valorie | what the heck, freenode | 06:09 |
| === mnepton is now known as mneptok | ||
| Myrtti | sorry! | 06:19 |
| elky | what blew up today? | 06:22 |
| dax | the internet | 06:23 |
| valorie | Myrtti: you broke freenode? | 06:26 |
| Myrtti | nope, but I feel responsible to say sorry, because I'm staff | 06:43 |
| valorie | ha | 06:43 |
| === FlannelKing is now known as Flannel | ||
| Flannel | It's OK Myrtti, you can admit that you broke freenode. | 07:49 |
| Myrtti | ;____; | 08:02 |
| srg2 | Spam on the Ubuntu Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gmail at the top. | 15:01 |
| Pici | srg2: thanks, we'll notify someone | 15:02 |
| srg2 | np | 15:02 |
| Myrtti | I reverted it but it's still on the history | 15:05 |
| Myrtti | "150927 < lotuspsychje> Myrtti: i dont feel like hunting and editing wiki's myself" | 15:09 |
| Myrtti | "thanks" | 15:09 |
| Pici | Myrtti: thanks :) | 15:12 |
| Pici | I'm stuck in a meeting here... and trying to actually pay attention :) | 15:13 |
| ubottu | BluesKaj called the ops in #kubuntu (Belzeboobs seems to be a bot) | 15:36 |
| Pici | we probably should get a handle on how snap support will work in #ubuntu come 16.04 | 19:15 |
| Pici | ikonia: ^ | 19:16 |
| ikonia | it looks worrying if what that chap is saying is correct | 19:16 |
| Unit193 | Hmm? | 19:29 |
| Pici | I read that as "Ham?" I think I'm still hungry from not having dinner last night. | 19:34 |
| popey | ikonia: that chap? | 20:02 |
| Pici | popey: MichaelTunnell in #kubuntu | 20:02 |
| popey | oh, not in there | 20:02 |
| * popey looks for logs | 20:03 | |
| popey | got it | 20:03 |
| popey | ok, read http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/04/14/%23kubuntu.html | 20:05 |
| popey | he's basically right | 20:05 |
| popey | snappy dramatically speeds up the turnaround time for getting updates to users | 20:06 |
| popey | (only read up to 19:06) | 20:06 |
| Pici | Is the approval process just a lintian-like test? | 20:07 |
| popey | It's a few things that speed things up | 20:08 |
| popey | The fact that you can bundle your own libs for one. | 20:08 |
| popey | So libfoo1.0 is in the archive, and myapp1.0 depends on it tightly in wily | 20:08 |
| popey | if I (as developer of myapp) want to update myapp to 2.0 with lots of shiny features, and a new dependency on libfoo 2.0, I'm somewhat knackered | 20:09 |
| popey | wily users will never see myapp 2.0, unless I put it in a ppa, which is no good for discovery | 20:09 |
| Pici | Right, I read through some of the docs on dev.u.c, that part seemed self-explanatory. | 20:09 |
| popey | however, in xenial, if I ship myapp1.0 with libfoo1.0 in a snap, then I can update myapp and libfoo together at once | 20:10 |
| popey | so rather than users of myapp1.0 having to wait up to six months (or 2 years for lts users), I can get it to them super fast | 20:10 |
| popey | even multiple updates a day if I wanted. | 20:10 |
| Unit193 | Pici: It's just the phone store, but open to desktop users too, basically. This replaces extras.ubuntu.com, specifically. | 20:10 |
| Pici | So basically we're trading disk space and bandwidth for package flexability? | 20:11 |
| popey | To some degree | 20:12 |
| Pici | I know theres a lot more to it than that ;) | 20:12 |
| popey | 😃 | 20:12 |
| ikonia | popey: where is the components of the snap coming from | 20:18 |
| popey | depends on the snap | 20:19 |
| popey | could be built from myapp.deb, or come from github.com/myapp.git or a tarball on my hard disk | 20:19 |
| ikonia | so basically anything you want | 20:19 |
| popey | could be made of many debs or many github branches | 20:19 |
| popey | yes | 20:19 |
| ikonia | I'll have to see how this pans out in practice, I don't like the concept | 20:20 |
| ikonia | but the reality could be quiet different | 20:20 |
| ikonia | quite too | 20:20 |
| popey | Which part are you uneasy about? | 20:20 |
| Unit193 | It seemed sane to me to support the core infra for it (snapd), but leave specific application support to whoever created it. No? | 20:20 |
| ikonia | pulling from anything | 20:20 |
| ikonia | by anyone | 20:20 |
| popey | that's already the case with PPAs | 20:20 |
| popey | which I know you're not a fan of :) | 20:21 |
| ikonia | it's basically the managed version of people doing ./configure && make && make install | 20:21 |
| popey | yes and no | 20:21 |
| ikonia | I actually am I a fan of the concept, and the well done PPA's | 20:21 |
| ikonia | I'm not a fan of letting anyone put anything up for anyone | 20:21 |
| popey | make install (or rather sudo make install) can be quite a problem | 20:21 |
| popey | snaps are confined | 20:21 |
| popey | It's pretty analagous (sp?) to the Android play store, iOS store, .. etc | 20:22 |
| ikonia | it's basically the puppet SFS approach, but more mature | 20:22 |
| ikonia | lets see how it works in reality, | 20:22 |
| popey | they all empower developers to ship their own stuff without distros getting in the way | 20:22 |
| popey | yeah | 20:22 |
| popey | it's early days | 20:22 |
| ikonia | thats half the problem | 20:22 |
| ikonia | developers focus on "their" little component | 20:22 |
| ikonia | distros pull it together as a working complete setup | 20:22 |
| popey | Why's that a problem? | 20:22 |
| popey | But only because they have to | 20:23 |
| ikonia | no they don't | 20:23 |
| popey | distros have to work hard to integrate these things | 20:23 |
| ikonia | they could make (for example) a great PPA | 20:23 |
| ikonia | that would be sane and no impact | 20:23 |
| popey | no, *they* in my mind was distros | 20:23 |
| popey | not developers | 20:23 |
| ikonia | distros do have to work hard, thats why we trust them | 20:23 |
| popey | we shouldn't | 20:23 |
| ikonia | they put in the effort to integrate, test and build | 20:23 |
| ikonia | I think you should | 20:23 |
| popey | debs have root on your computer | 20:23 |
| popey | that's scary | 20:23 |
| popey | no guarantee they were code reviewed | 20:24 |
| ikonia | not really | 20:24 |
| ikonia | as I trust where they come from | 20:24 |
| popey | then you're mad | 20:24 |
| ikonia | not at all | 20:24 |
| Pici | I'm interested in seeing to see what happens when some popular library needs a security update and happens to be in a bunch of snappy packags too. | 20:24 |
| * dax ponders chromium bundling libraries in its source archives and distros having to (or not bothering to) strip them out and use system libraries | 20:24 | |
| * dax ponders owncloud in general | 20:24 | |
| popey | yeah, lets say libssl needs updating | 20:24 |
| Unit193 | Pici: In the future, they'll have library snaps too. :P | 20:24 |
| popey | and there's 20+ apps built against it | 20:24 |
| Pici | right | 20:24 |
| popey | The question is, so what? | 20:25 |
| popey | The developer doesn't update their app? They look bad | 20:25 |
| Pici | So its up to the devs to push new packages? | 20:25 |
| popey | Time for developers to take ownership of their code. | 20:25 |
| popey | yes. | 20:25 |
| Pici | hrm... not sure I like that. but okay. | 20:25 |
| popey | not rely on distros fixing it for them | 20:25 |
| Unit193 | popey: BTW, have you looked at the packaging process in Debian? | 20:25 |
| ikonia | no, not for me | 20:25 |
| ikonia | but lets see the reality of the implementation | 20:25 |
| popey | Unit193: sure | 20:25 |
| === funkyHat_ is now known as funkyHat | ||
| ubottu | mekhami_ called the ops in #ubuntu () | 22:52 |
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