=== bazhang__ is now known as bazhang [05:52] hello everyone [05:52] how are we on this fine thursday morning? [05:58] Silly Tm_T, it's nearly 2am, it's night. [05:59] Unit193: is it? that explains a lot [06:00] dark here as well [06:00] :-) [06:01] but good $timeofday to you, Tm_T [06:01] thursdays ♥ [06:02] it's been snowing here, spring clearly [06:03] we had a week of warm & sunny, lots of rain yesterday [06:03] weeds are soooo happy === not_phunyguy is now known as phunyguy [06:09] what the heck, freenode === mnepton is now known as mneptok [06:19] sorry! [06:22] what blew up today? [06:23] the internet [06:26] Myrtti: you broke freenode? [06:43] nope, but I feel responsible to say sorry, because I'm staff [06:43] ha === FlannelKing is now known as Flannel [07:49] It's OK Myrtti, you can admit that you broke freenode. [08:02] ;____; [15:01] Spam on the Ubuntu Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gmail at the top. [15:02] srg2: thanks, we'll notify someone [15:02] np [15:05] I reverted it but it's still on the history [15:09] "150927 < lotuspsychje> Myrtti: i dont feel like hunting and editing wiki's myself" [15:09] "thanks" [15:12] Myrtti: thanks :) [15:13] I'm stuck in a meeting here... and trying to actually pay attention :) [15:36] BluesKaj called the ops in #kubuntu (Belzeboobs seems to be a bot) [19:15] we probably should get a handle on how snap support will work in #ubuntu come 16.04 [19:16] ikonia: ^ [19:16] it looks worrying if what that chap is saying is correct [19:29] Hmm? [19:34] I read that as "Ham?" I think I'm still hungry from not having dinner last night. [20:02] ikonia: that chap? [20:02] popey: MichaelTunnell in #kubuntu [20:02] oh, not in there [20:03] * popey looks for logs [20:03] got it [20:05] ok, read http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/04/14/%23kubuntu.html [20:05] he's basically right [20:06] snappy dramatically speeds up the turnaround time for getting updates to users [20:06] (only read up to 19:06) [20:07] Is the approval process just a lintian-like test? [20:08] It's a few things that speed things up [20:08] The fact that you can bundle your own libs for one. [20:08] So libfoo1.0 is in the archive, and myapp1.0 depends on it tightly in wily [20:09] if I (as developer of myapp) want to update myapp to 2.0 with lots of shiny features, and a new dependency on libfoo 2.0, I'm somewhat knackered [20:09] wily users will never see myapp 2.0, unless I put it in a ppa, which is no good for discovery [20:09] Right, I read through some of the docs on dev.u.c, that part seemed self-explanatory. [20:10] however, in xenial, if I ship myapp1.0 with libfoo1.0 in a snap, then I can update myapp and libfoo together at once [20:10] so rather than users of myapp1.0 having to wait up to six months (or 2 years for lts users), I can get it to them super fast [20:10] even multiple updates a day if I wanted. [20:10] Pici: It's just the phone store, but open to desktop users too, basically. This replaces extras.ubuntu.com, specifically. [20:11] So basically we're trading disk space and bandwidth for package flexability? [20:12] To some degree [20:12] I know theres a lot more to it than that ;) [20:12] 😃 [20:18] popey: where is the components of the snap coming from [20:19] depends on the snap [20:19] could be built from myapp.deb, or come from github.com/myapp.git or a tarball on my hard disk [20:19] so basically anything you want [20:19] could be made of many debs or many github branches [20:19] yes [20:20] I'll have to see how this pans out in practice, I don't like the concept [20:20] but the reality could be quiet different [20:20] quite too [20:20] Which part are you uneasy about? [20:20] It seemed sane to me to support the core infra for it (snapd), but leave specific application support to whoever created it. No? [20:20] pulling from anything [20:20] by anyone [20:20] that's already the case with PPAs [20:21] which I know you're not a fan of :) [20:21] it's basically the managed version of people doing ./configure && make && make install [20:21] yes and no [20:21] I actually am I a fan of the concept, and the well done PPA's [20:21] I'm not a fan of letting anyone put anything up for anyone [20:21] make install (or rather sudo make install) can be quite a problem [20:21] snaps are confined [20:22] It's pretty analagous (sp?) to the Android play store, iOS store, .. etc [20:22] it's basically the puppet SFS approach, but more mature [20:22] lets see how it works in reality, [20:22] they all empower developers to ship their own stuff without distros getting in the way [20:22] yeah [20:22] it's early days [20:22] thats half the problem [20:22] developers focus on "their" little component [20:22] distros pull it together as a working complete setup [20:22] Why's that a problem? [20:23] But only because they have to [20:23] no they don't [20:23] distros have to work hard to integrate these things [20:23] they could make (for example) a great PPA [20:23] that would be sane and no impact [20:23] no, *they* in my mind was distros [20:23] not developers [20:23] distros do have to work hard, thats why we trust them [20:23] we shouldn't [20:23] they put in the effort to integrate, test and build [20:23] I think you should [20:23] debs have root on your computer [20:23] that's scary [20:24] no guarantee they were code reviewed [20:24] not really [20:24] as I trust where they come from [20:24] then you're mad [20:24] not at all [20:24] I'm interested in seeing to see what happens when some popular library needs a security update and happens to be in a bunch of snappy packags too. [20:24] * dax ponders chromium bundling libraries in its source archives and distros having to (or not bothering to) strip them out and use system libraries [20:24] * dax ponders owncloud in general [20:24] yeah, lets say libssl needs updating [20:24] Pici: In the future, they'll have library snaps too. :P [20:24] and there's 20+ apps built against it [20:24] right [20:25] The question is, so what? [20:25] The developer doesn't update their app? They look bad [20:25] So its up to the devs to push new packages? [20:25] Time for developers to take ownership of their code. [20:25] yes. [20:25] hrm... not sure I like that. but okay. [20:25] not rely on distros fixing it for them [20:25] popey: BTW, have you looked at the packaging process in Debian? [20:25] no, not for me [20:25] but lets see the reality of the implementation [20:25] Unit193: sure === funkyHat_ is now known as funkyHat [22:52] mekhami_ called the ops in #ubuntu ()