/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/04/15/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

sakrecoerit's probably too late, but i remmbered one thing i miss from the older desktop: a button to hide everything from the desktop.08:00
sakrecoermaybe it is somewhere?08:00
sakrecoerit used to be in the hiding panel i think...08:01
sakrecoeroh, it is available in "add ne items" of course :) good enough for me :)08:02
sakrecoeranyone else has got the default wallpaper displayed twice in settings=>desktop ? i have it once as ubuntustudio-default.png and once as 1604_ghostcolor.png...08:34
sakrecoerbut i just tried to install xubuntu-wallpaper and wonder if it might be due to that....?08:35
sakrecoersudo apt-get purge xubuntu-wallpaper did remove hte package allright, but the pictures are still available in settings=>desktop... maybe its expected?08:40
zequencesakrecoer: The default wallpaper will always be displayed twice from now on, because of the link12:03
zequence..unless we start putting the default wallpaper somewhere else, like /usr/share/ubuntustudio/default-wallpaper.png12:04
zequence..and link from there12:04
autumna2 questions12:08
autumna1) is openvpn something that is supposed to be part of the default package set? (I can't remember if 14.04 came with it) and is there a list of features somewhere. 12:09
autumna2) are bugs meant to be filed under ubuntu studio or ubuntu? ubuntu-bug seems to redirect everything to the main ubuntu project so I am a bit confused. :) 12:10
zequenceautumna: Only if you do not know which package to report agains should you use ubuntustudo12:13
zequenceOtherwise, always report against the package12:13
zequenceUbuntu Studio is a part of the whole. We share the infrastructure with all the other flavors. Including bug management12:14
zequenceBugs are usually fixed by the package maintainer12:14
zequenceautumna: The DE setup is synced with Xubuntu, so whatever we have that comes with the -desktop package you should talk about with Xubuntu devs12:15
zequenceWe just sync and forget at this point. There are plans to go desktop agnostic in the future. And since no one has been interested in maintaining our own DE setup, this is how we do things right now12:16
zequenceWell, bugs can be fixed by anyone. And, most packages in universe are actually directly imported from Debian, which means there is no Ubuntu maintainer for them12:17
zequenceBy "Ubuntu", I mean any flavor of Ubuntu12:17
zequenceIn the case of nvidia drivers, I think Canonical packages those12:18
autumnaI see. the reason I asked is because there are issues with a certain package, but workarounds involve using another package instead. (e.g. default display setting has no mirroring option for 2 displays. workaround is simply using ARandR) so. I wasn't sure if this was something you needed to know or not.12:18
zequenceNot much they can do with the source code, but if it's a packaging problem, they could be able to solve it. OTherwise, it's in the hands of Nvidia12:18
zequenceautumna: 2 displays with which drivers?12:19
zequenceWe useds to keep ARandR since the default screen settings did not do everything, but it should be good enough for that sort of thing now12:20
autumnaI honestly don't remember at which stage I tried it. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1497806 is the bug I am referring to.12:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1497806 in xfce4-settings "Mirrored display broken in Xubuntu" [Medium,Confirmed]12:21
autumna(in case of the brightness bug (I am not certain what is wrong with that still) I'll just redirect it to xubuntu project then. thanks for explaining. 12:28
zequenceautumna: The nvidia problem is for Canonical to solve. It's proprietary code. No one has access to the source.12:32
zequenceautumna: But, maybe it can be done in packaging. I don't know12:32
zequenceautumna: There's a bit of a difference if the bug is because of proprietary software. 1) people tend not to care to fix it 2) even if they wanted to, they can't most often, because it's closed source12:33
zequenceSo, make sure first that the bug is because of nvidia or not12:33
zequenceMirroring displays with nvidia drivers is done with a nvidia gui tool usually12:34
autumnaI am not sure how to proceed with the brightness setup bug, to pinpoint the problem. (if it is nvidia side or something that can be fixed on this side) as for mirroring displays. brb to check if the problem persists with nouveau. 12:37
zequenceautumna: The nvidia bug is out of your hands until a maintainer appears with comments, or someone else with ideas on how to fix it12:38
zequenceautumna: The important thing is that the bug is now pointed towards the correct package12:38
zequenceautumna: Are you using the nvidia control panel? If not, that is what you should be using with nvidia drivers12:39
autumnaI don't normally. I am currently using 14.04 as my main system, and use ArandR for everything so I didn't think of using nvidia control panel for it tbh12:40
autumnalogging out to switch to the iso to check these. brb.12:42
sakrecoerzequence: putting it /us/share/ubuntustudio/default-walpaper.png is a good idea. the way it is now, is a minor thing, but i can't help anticipate someone thinking they will do us good by repporting the double, effectively waisting there time (and potentialy ours if we respond)13:20
sakrecoerbut again, it really is a minor thing. i'll put it in the list of things to look at for 16.1013:21
OvenWerksautumna: the xfce "Display" setting applet should be able to do Mirror. If it doesn't it should be fixed.13:29
OvenWerksarandr does not auto save and the save it does do is not restored at login.13:29
autumnajust finished checking. mirroring problem in xfce is independent from driver and is related to xfce. on nvidia, you can set it with nvidia controls, in nouveau there is no way to do it other than installing ARanR. but yeah. it is a known bug on xfce side. :(13:30
OvenWerksbasically Disply uses the same commands as arandr. Both are guis for xrandr (which we do ship)13:31
zequenceOvenWerks: Not entirely sure that works as well with nvidia drivers though13:32
zequencenouveau, yes, but not nvidia13:32
autumnazequence: xrandr? I never had issues with it when using it with nvidia. 13:33
OvenWerkszequence: I understand that part, but Display and arandr "should" work the same.13:34
OvenWerksmirror is default with two displays (the most useless mode in my opinion)13:35
OvenWerks :)13:35
autumnait looks to me (as a user) that there seems to be a design decision. display doesn't allow screens overlapping each other. Arandr does. (so it is not that there is really a mirroring, but when you overlap, it ends up being the same result, or better, in cases where screen resolutions differ)13:35
OvenWerksautumna: Ah, that is different yes.13:36
OvenWerksarandr allows setting exact position of screens13:36
OvenWerksDisplay is just left of, right of, top of, below13:37
OvenWerksThat is not a bug with Display it is as you say, a design decision13:38
autumna*nods* sorry I guess I shouldn't have been calling it mirroring, now that i think of it. 13:38
autumnawell.. independently there is a "mirror" button on Display that is grayed out. :)13:38
OvenWerksI don't have that, mirror always works here, but the video driver may override xrandr and so it is greyed out.13:40
* OvenWerks has an Intel GPU13:40
autumnaits disabled both with nouveau and nvidia.13:40
OvenWerksautumna: interesting. I will take a look at my son's machine later when he has gone to school.13:41
OvenWerksautumna: free placement of screens is not that common in display utiliies.13:43
autumnaoverwerks: awesome. I am going to add nouveau and nvidia to the packages of existing bug interim. :)13:43
autumnaoverwerks: it is not, but it is useful. (I am mostly using 2-screen for my cintiq, so non-warped overlap is great). 13:44
* OvenWerks is goning to reboot to confirm alsa-utils fix works... reboot13:45
OvenWerksautumna: yes when I was using a net book with extra monitor it was useful to keep the mouse from jumping :)13:46
zequenceThere's a slight chance ubiquity won't be updated with our changes before release. No activity there for many days13:50
zequenceAnd, we are in Final Freeze now13:50
autumnawhen is the distros being released again? 13:51
autumna(I have to say, US 16.04 is looking amazing and thank you) 13:52
sakrecoerautumna: thursday next week :) thank YOU for stopping by and involving yourself!13:57
OvenWerkszequence: alsa-utils fix confirmed.13:57
sakrecoerOvenWerks: \o/13:57
autumna:)13:59
OvenWerksautumna: how are you setting the screen brightness? (keyboard, applet?) I can't find any way of changing my brightness.14:05
* OvenWerks has an old xt/at keyboard.14:06
autumnanew power applet (new for me ;) 16.04) has a slider, but before then.. I install xbacklight14:07
autumnaand put 2 custom application icons to toolbar that does xbacklight -dec 10   xbacklight -inc 10 (or you can make a drop down by - set 10, set 20, set 30 etc) 14:08
autumnayou can add a default to start menu too to begin at a certain brightness at login, beyond that.. I haven't found a neat way to set up brightness based on power settings if default power settings doesn't work. 14:09
OvenWerksMy power manager has only time values no brightness.14:10
OvenWerks$ xbacklight14:15
OvenWerksNo outputs have backlight property14:15
autumnaoh... yeah my 14.04  install has the same problem I do that, and also map some keys (keyboard shortcuts doesn't work either unfortunately) 14:15
OvenWerksHuh, ok I guess I don't see the brightness slider because my GPU doesn't support it14:16
OvenWerksThis is 16.0414:16
autumnatry doing xbacklight -get ?14:16
OvenWerksNo outputs have backlight property14:17
autumna*blinks*14:17
OvenWerkscould be my cheap monitors too.14:17
autumnayou'd think even cheapest monitor would have it.. 14:18
autumnasorry no clue14:18
OvenWerksno complaints either. This is a desktop and so I can change brightness on the monitor anyway.14:19
autumnaaaaah14:19
OvenWerksthis is much more important on a laptop when used in dim venues.14:19
OvenWerks(and where SW is the only way of controling brightness)14:20
autumnathe latter I think is the key point.14:20
OvenWerks:)14:20
autumnafull bright screen at night is painful, especially when your main occupation involves looking at graphics. (also terrible on battery)14:21
autumna:)14:22
OvenWerksAlso using for recording in a dim place where one needs their "night vision".14:22
autumnaoverwerks: true! 14:30
autumnaok xorg-video-nouveau is primary package for nouveau drivers right?14:31
OvenWerksmight be xserver-xorg-video-nouveau14:36
OvenWerks(thats about all that shows up in synaptic)14:36
autumnaok, thanks :) off to induce potential kernel panic in my install. brb in a few minutes. 14:43
sakrecoeri noticed that the powerindicator has a slider now for light dimming....14:49
sakrecoerre: laptop in dim venues..14:49
sakrecoer^ OvenWerks 14:49
sakrecoervery handy thing...14:49
autumnait does! (reboot)14:51
* sakrecoer hides, need to read better what you write about before i interact...14:52
OvenWerkszequence: with respect to the message in the list "lot of things wrong" (with Ardour) I suspect user error.15:08
zequenceOvenWerks: I have the same feeling. But, he's free to report any bugs, of course15:10
autumnaI'll happy to give it a look, later today. (although I am not very familiar with ardour. *prefers lmms and rosegarden*15:12
autumna1testing15:26
autumna1(ok works)15:26
zequenceautumna1: Hard to know exactly what did not work for Grant though.15:29
zequenceI use ardour myself in the studio. Not sure if it is the most recent version, haven't updated for a couple of months, but I think it is15:29
zequenceWorst that has happened so far were some random crashes in a project. After I did a "save ..as", it want a way.15:30
zequenceI've only used lv2 plugins. And, only recorded audio, so that is what I know works.15:31
OvenWerksI have at least recorded a MIDI track as well.15:31
OvenWerksThe version of calf is much better behaved.15:32
autumna1vsts is one place I would/will check15:32
zequenceNever used vst's on Linux. Never found a reason to15:34
autumna1I don't use them much anymore, but haven't found a good way to do microtuning of SF2s yet that doesn't involve one. 15:35
OvenWerksThere are some comercial Linux VSTs that do not come as LV2 anymore.15:35
zequenceOvenWerks: Which did before?15:37
OvenWerkshttp://www.overtonedsp.co.uk/15:37
OvenWerksI think the dev felt it was one less version to keep up... same code windows/linux15:39
zequenceBut, those are native VST's right?15:42
zequence..for Linux15:42
zequenceI got the Harrison Mixbus and a few LinuxDSP plugs a couple of years ago, just to try that out. Wasn't totally happy with the plugins.15:42
OvenWerksyes, but just a second compile, not a rewrite15:42
zequenceok15:42
zequenceAh, but overtonedsp is probably what I remember as linuxdsp15:43
zequenceThink that has broadened towards Windows/Mac more recently15:43
OvenWerksyes, I was thinking linuxdsp too, same guy.15:44
OvenWerksPianoteq is probably the very best piano plugin right now, also VST only for Linux.15:45
autumna1zequence would you mind if I used your email to thomas as a basis for a short blurb on how to submit a bug? The pages you linked are great as to how to do proper iso test, but is not exactly beginner friendly for a bug reporting user who has never done it before. :) 15:46
zequenceautumna1: YOu mean, should he contact me per email? Not sure what you mean.15:48
autumna1haha no. I meant can I write down something that can be later stuck into to the common questions here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio etc15:49
zequenceautumna1: Oh, now I understand. Sure, that is quite fine.15:51
autumna1cool15:51
zequenceautumna1: This is an old page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/ReportingBugs15:58
zequenceautumna1: If you like, just rewrite it from scratch, and add a link to it somewhere in the help wiki page15:59
zequenceand, if you have opinions about the help wiki, and its organization, don't be shy. No one has worked on that for quite a while15:59
autumna1I can just modify this15:59
zequenceautumna1: The information on that page is for reporting a bug to the Ubuntu Studio project. That is old. We use ubuntu-bug, but if we don't know which package we can use the launchpad project page instead16:00
zequenceSo, the content in that page could be used for the other alternative.16:00
autumna1I am thinking more of a starting point how to for people. 16:01
autumna1like for a user it is not clear what belongs to ubuntu studio and what belongs to normal ubuntu. (as you might have seen from me yesterday :) )16:01
zequenceautumna1: Absolutely. It's a good thing to develop. I can take a look at the page once you have edited it, and give you feedback.16:02
zequenceWe're planning to modify the web site shortly. One thing we could add is clearer support info16:03
autumna1*nods*16:04
autumna1I'll definitely try to help out at this stage too. 16:05
autumna1at that stage*16:08
zequenceautumna1: Good to know. There's no big rite of passage. Whatever you want to do, as long as it's not crazy, you are free to do it, and we'll give you access to what is needed16:08
autumna1thank you. just being cautious to not accidentally step on toes that's all. :)16:09
zequenceautumna1: Good to avoid breaking things, yes.16:10
autumna1okay. apparently there is such a thing as "immutable page". new page it is XD16:12
zequenceautumna1: Really?16:13
autumna1yep16:13
zequenceGoing to check16:13
zequenceHaven16:13
autumna1*laughs*16:13
zequenceHaven't seen that before among our pages16:13
zequenceAh, there seems to be a new system for wiki pages16:14
zequenceethernet-pad members and ubuntu memebers16:14
zequenceubuntu-etherpad, sorry16:14
zequenceLong time since I logged in16:14
autumna1ah well considering everybody ends up getting an ubuntu-one account at some point for some reason, it makes sense I guess?16:15
zequenceI'm able to edit, but I logged in as a Ubuntu member16:18
zequenceautumna1: Think it helps security. ubuntuforums was hacked a while back, and then switched to the unified account thing16:20
autumna1aah16:20
autumna1ok this is way too complicated (how to get editing access) I'll just focus on writing the doc first offline16:20
zequenceUnlike Debian, Ubuntu has some additional restrictions on things. Like certain mail lists. You can only post if you have access16:21
autumna1*nods*16:21
zequenceautumna1: Did you try loggin in?16:21
autumna1yes I did16:21
autumna1well16:21
autumna1actually16:21
autumna1the question is not if I did log in16:21
autumna1the question is what did I login WITH16:21
zequenceautumna1: ubuntu-etherpad should do it16:22
autumna1*blinks16:22
zequenceOk, dinner time. bbl16:22
autumna1I have an ubuntu-one account that open log-in into the wiki16:22
sakrecoerautumna: i used to get locked out from the wiki on a regular basis, until i joined the ether-pad team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad19:24
flocculantI think that the need to be in the etherpad team is still there to edit wiki 19:25
autumnaI see. ok19:25
flocculantoh19:25
* flocculant makes note to read further back ... I see zequence said that :p19:26
flocculantautumna: just join at the launchpad page - they get approved pretty quickly afaik19:26
autumnaok. *does so*19:27
sakrecoeri was about to ping you flocculant :)19:27
flocculantsakrecoer: no need now :)19:27
flocculantwell - you did actually ping me :p19:27
sakrecoerflocculant: who need wifi? :D19:28
flocculantthe cat 19:28
zequenceflocculant, sakrecoer; I was actually going to ask sakrecoer to tell us more about this problem, cause I remember him saying something about becoming an -etherpad member19:32
zequenceAt the time, i had no idea you needed that19:32
flocculantzequence: it turned up with the spam problem19:34
flocculantafaik it is still a requirement19:34
flocculantdeters the drive-by page edits I suppose19:37
flocculantprice to pay always :(19:37
zequenceEither spam is getting bigger, or Ubuntu is19:39
flocculantcycles19:39
flocculantthey find a way in and use it 19:41
autumnamy bet is on spam in this case. even when user base increases, documentation isn't what most people go for. 20:06
zequenceautumna: flocculant gave us some estimation on the amount of spam earlier on the #ubuntustudio-offtopic channel. Please join!20:08
flocculantautumna: yup it's just about getting google to see your link I guess 20:08
flocculanthardly likely to be anyone reading ubuntu wiki daft enough to do anything with a spam link 20:09
* autumna understands20:34
autumna*mistell20:34

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