[08:00] <sakrecoer> it's probably too late, but i remmbered one thing i miss from the older desktop: a button to hide everything from the desktop.
[08:00] <sakrecoer> maybe it is somewhere?
[08:01] <sakrecoer> it used to be in the hiding panel i think...
[08:02] <sakrecoer> oh, it is available in "add ne items" of course :) good enough for me :)
[08:34] <sakrecoer> anyone else has got the default wallpaper displayed twice in settings=>desktop ? i have it once as ubuntustudio-default.png and once as 1604_ghostcolor.png...
[08:35] <sakrecoer> but i just tried to install xubuntu-wallpaper and wonder if it might be due to that....?
[08:40] <sakrecoer> sudo apt-get purge xubuntu-wallpaper did remove hte package allright, but the pictures are still available in settings=>desktop... maybe its expected?
[12:03] <zequence> sakrecoer: The default wallpaper will always be displayed twice from now on, because of the link
[12:04] <zequence> ..unless we start putting the default wallpaper somewhere else, like /usr/share/ubuntustudio/default-wallpaper.png
[12:04] <zequence> ..and link from there
[12:08] <autumna> 2 questions
[12:09] <autumna> 1) is openvpn something that is supposed to be part of the default package set? (I can't remember if 14.04 came with it) and is there a list of features somewhere. 
[12:10] <autumna> 2) are bugs meant to be filed under ubuntu studio or ubuntu? ubuntu-bug seems to redirect everything to the main ubuntu project so I am a bit confused. :) 
[12:13] <zequence> autumna: Only if you do not know which package to report agains should you use ubuntustudo
[12:13] <zequence> Otherwise, always report against the package
[12:14] <zequence> Ubuntu Studio is a part of the whole. We share the infrastructure with all the other flavors. Including bug management
[12:14] <zequence> Bugs are usually fixed by the package maintainer
[12:15] <zequence> autumna: The DE setup is synced with Xubuntu, so whatever we have that comes with the -desktop package you should talk about with Xubuntu devs
[12:16] <zequence> We just sync and forget at this point. There are plans to go desktop agnostic in the future. And since no one has been interested in maintaining our own DE setup, this is how we do things right now
[12:17] <zequence> Well, bugs can be fixed by anyone. And, most packages in universe are actually directly imported from Debian, which means there is no Ubuntu maintainer for them
[12:17] <zequence> By "Ubuntu", I mean any flavor of Ubuntu
[12:18] <zequence> In the case of nvidia drivers, I think Canonical packages those
[12:18] <autumna> I see. the reason I asked is because there are issues with a certain package, but workarounds involve using another package instead. (e.g. default display setting has no mirroring option for 2 displays. workaround is simply using ARandR) so. I wasn't sure if this was something you needed to know or not.
[12:18] <zequence> Not much they can do with the source code, but if it's a packaging problem, they could be able to solve it. OTherwise, it's in the hands of Nvidia
[12:19] <zequence> autumna: 2 displays with which drivers?
[12:20] <zequence> We useds to keep ARandR since the default screen settings did not do everything, but it should be good enough for that sort of thing now
[12:21] <autumna> I honestly don't remember at which stage I tried it. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1497806 is the bug I am referring to.
[12:28] <autumna> (in case of the brightness bug (I am not certain what is wrong with that still) I'll just redirect it to xubuntu project then. thanks for explaining. 
[12:32] <zequence> autumna: The nvidia problem is for Canonical to solve. It's proprietary code. No one has access to the source.
[12:32] <zequence> autumna: But, maybe it can be done in packaging. I don't know
[12:33] <zequence> autumna: There's a bit of a difference if the bug is because of proprietary software. 1) people tend not to care to fix it 2) even if they wanted to, they can't most often, because it's closed source
[12:33] <zequence> So, make sure first that the bug is because of nvidia or not
[12:34] <zequence> Mirroring displays with nvidia drivers is done with a nvidia gui tool usually
[12:37] <autumna> I am not sure how to proceed with the brightness setup bug, to pinpoint the problem. (if it is nvidia side or something that can be fixed on this side) as for mirroring displays. brb to check if the problem persists with nouveau. 
[12:38] <zequence> autumna: The nvidia bug is out of your hands until a maintainer appears with comments, or someone else with ideas on how to fix it
[12:38] <zequence> autumna: The important thing is that the bug is now pointed towards the correct package
[12:39] <zequence> autumna: Are you using the nvidia control panel? If not, that is what you should be using with nvidia drivers
[12:40] <autumna> I don't normally. I am currently using 14.04 as my main system, and use ArandR for everything so I didn't think of using nvidia control panel for it tbh
[12:42] <autumna> logging out to switch to the iso to check these. brb.
[13:20] <sakrecoer> zequence: putting it /us/share/ubuntustudio/default-walpaper.png is a good idea. the way it is now, is a minor thing, but i can't help anticipate someone thinking they will do us good by repporting the double, effectively waisting there time (and potentialy ours if we respond)
[13:21] <sakrecoer> but again, it really is a minor thing. i'll put it in the list of things to look at for 16.10
[13:29] <OvenWerks> autumna: the xfce "Display" setting applet should be able to do Mirror. If it doesn't it should be fixed.
[13:29] <OvenWerks> arandr does not auto save and the save it does do is not restored at login.
[13:30] <autumna> just finished checking. mirroring problem in xfce is independent from driver and is related to xfce. on nvidia, you can set it with nvidia controls, in nouveau there is no way to do it other than installing ARanR. but yeah. it is a known bug on xfce side. :(
[13:31] <OvenWerks> basically Disply uses the same commands as arandr. Both are guis for xrandr (which we do ship)
[13:32] <zequence> OvenWerks: Not entirely sure that works as well with nvidia drivers though
[13:32] <zequence> nouveau, yes, but not nvidia
[13:33] <autumna> zequence: xrandr? I never had issues with it when using it with nvidia. 
[13:34] <OvenWerks> zequence: I understand that part, but Display and arandr "should" work the same.
[13:35] <OvenWerks> mirror is default with two displays (the most useless mode in my opinion)
[13:35] <OvenWerks>  :)
[13:35] <autumna> it looks to me (as a user) that there seems to be a design decision. display doesn't allow screens overlapping each other. Arandr does. (so it is not that there is really a mirroring, but when you overlap, it ends up being the same result, or better, in cases where screen resolutions differ)
[13:36] <OvenWerks> autumna: Ah, that is different yes.
[13:36] <OvenWerks> arandr allows setting exact position of screens
[13:37] <OvenWerks> Display is just left of, right of, top of, below
[13:38] <OvenWerks> That is not a bug with Display it is as you say, a design decision
[13:38] <autumna> *nods* sorry I guess I shouldn't have been calling it mirroring, now that i think of it. 
[13:38] <autumna> well.. independently there is a "mirror" button on Display that is grayed out. :)
[13:40] <OvenWerks> I don't have that, mirror always works here, but the video driver may override xrandr and so it is greyed out.
[13:40]  * OvenWerks has an Intel GPU
[13:40] <autumna> its disabled both with nouveau and nvidia.
[13:41] <OvenWerks> autumna: interesting. I will take a look at my son's machine later when he has gone to school.
[13:43] <OvenWerks> autumna: free placement of screens is not that common in display utiliies.
[13:43] <autumna> overwerks: awesome. I am going to add nouveau and nvidia to the packages of existing bug interim. :)
[13:44] <autumna> overwerks: it is not, but it is useful. (I am mostly using 2-screen for my cintiq, so non-warped overlap is great). 
[13:45]  * OvenWerks is goning to reboot to confirm alsa-utils fix works... reboot
[13:46] <OvenWerks> autumna: yes when I was using a net book with extra monitor it was useful to keep the mouse from jumping :)
[13:50] <zequence> There's a slight chance ubiquity won't be updated with our changes before release. No activity there for many days
[13:50] <zequence> And, we are in Final Freeze now
[13:51] <autumna> when is the distros being released again? 
[13:52] <autumna> (I have to say, US 16.04 is looking amazing and thank you) 
[13:57] <sakrecoer> autumna: thursday next week :) thank YOU for stopping by and involving yourself!
[13:57] <OvenWerks> zequence: alsa-utils fix confirmed.
[13:57] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: \o/
[13:59] <autumna> :)
[14:05] <OvenWerks> autumna: how are you setting the screen brightness? (keyboard, applet?) I can't find any way of changing my brightness.
[14:06]  * OvenWerks has an old xt/at keyboard.
[14:07] <autumna> new power applet (new for me ;) 16.04) has a slider, but before then.. I install xbacklight
[14:08] <autumna> and put 2 custom application icons to toolbar that does xbacklight -dec 10   xbacklight -inc 10 (or you can make a drop down by - set 10, set 20, set 30 etc) 
[14:09] <autumna> you can add a default to start menu too to begin at a certain brightness at login, beyond that.. I haven't found a neat way to set up brightness based on power settings if default power settings doesn't work. 
[14:10] <OvenWerks> My power manager has only time values no brightness.
[14:15] <OvenWerks> $ xbacklight
[14:15] <OvenWerks> No outputs have backlight property
[14:15] <autumna> oh... yeah my 14.04  install has the same problem I do that, and also map some keys (keyboard shortcuts doesn't work either unfortunately) 
[14:16] <OvenWerks> Huh, ok I guess I don't see the brightness slider because my GPU doesn't support it
[14:16] <OvenWerks> This is 16.04
[14:16] <autumna> try doing xbacklight -get ?
[14:17] <OvenWerks> No outputs have backlight property
[14:17] <autumna> *blinks*
[14:17] <OvenWerks> could be my cheap monitors too.
[14:18] <autumna> you'd think even cheapest monitor would have it.. 
[14:18] <autumna> sorry no clue
[14:19] <OvenWerks> no complaints either. This is a desktop and so I can change brightness on the monitor anyway.
[14:19] <autumna> aaaah
[14:19] <OvenWerks> this is much more important on a laptop when used in dim venues.
[14:20] <OvenWerks> (and where SW is the only way of controling brightness)
[14:20] <autumna> the latter I think is the key point.
[14:20] <OvenWerks> :)
[14:21] <autumna> full bright screen at night is painful, especially when your main occupation involves looking at graphics. (also terrible on battery)
[14:22] <autumna> :)
[14:22] <OvenWerks> Also using for recording in a dim place where one needs their "night vision".
[14:30] <autumna> overwerks: true! 
[14:31] <autumna> ok xorg-video-nouveau is primary package for nouveau drivers right?
[14:36] <OvenWerks> might be xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
[14:36] <OvenWerks> (thats about all that shows up in synaptic)
[14:43] <autumna> ok, thanks :) off to induce potential kernel panic in my install. brb in a few minutes. 
[14:49] <sakrecoer> i noticed that the powerindicator has a slider now for light dimming....
[14:49] <sakrecoer> re: laptop in dim venues..
[14:49] <sakrecoer> ^ OvenWerks 
[14:49] <sakrecoer> very handy thing...
[14:51] <autumna> it does! (reboot)
[14:52]  * sakrecoer hides, need to read better what you write about before i interact...
[15:08] <OvenWerks> zequence: with respect to the message in the list "lot of things wrong" (with Ardour) I suspect user error.
[15:10] <zequence> OvenWerks: I have the same feeling. But, he's free to report any bugs, of course
[15:12] <autumna> I'll happy to give it a look, later today. (although I am not very familiar with ardour. *prefers lmms and rosegarden*
[15:26] <autumna1> testing
[15:26] <autumna1> (ok works)
[15:29] <zequence> autumna1: Hard to know exactly what did not work for Grant though.
[15:29] <zequence> I use ardour myself in the studio. Not sure if it is the most recent version, haven't updated for a couple of months, but I think it is
[15:30] <zequence> Worst that has happened so far were some random crashes in a project. After I did a "save ..as", it want a way.
[15:31] <zequence> I've only used lv2 plugins. And, only recorded audio, so that is what I know works.
[15:31] <OvenWerks> I have at least recorded a MIDI track as well.
[15:32] <OvenWerks> The version of calf is much better behaved.
[15:32] <autumna1> vsts is one place I would/will check
[15:34] <zequence> Never used vst's on Linux. Never found a reason to
[15:35] <autumna1> I don't use them much anymore, but haven't found a good way to do microtuning of SF2s yet that doesn't involve one. 
[15:35] <OvenWerks> There are some comercial Linux VSTs that do not come as LV2 anymore.
[15:37] <zequence> OvenWerks: Which did before?
[15:37] <OvenWerks> http://www.overtonedsp.co.uk/
[15:39] <OvenWerks> I think the dev felt it was one less version to keep up... same code windows/linux
[15:42] <zequence> But, those are native VST's right?
[15:42] <zequence> ..for Linux
[15:42] <zequence> I got the Harrison Mixbus and a few LinuxDSP plugs a couple of years ago, just to try that out. Wasn't totally happy with the plugins.
[15:42] <OvenWerks> yes, but just a second compile, not a rewrite
[15:42] <zequence> ok
[15:43] <zequence> Ah, but overtonedsp is probably what I remember as linuxdsp
[15:43] <zequence> Think that has broadened towards Windows/Mac more recently
[15:44] <OvenWerks> yes, I was thinking linuxdsp too, same guy.
[15:45] <OvenWerks> Pianoteq is probably the very best piano plugin right now, also VST only for Linux.
[15:46] <autumna1> zequence would you mind if I used your email to thomas as a basis for a short blurb on how to submit a bug? The pages you linked are great as to how to do proper iso test, but is not exactly beginner friendly for a bug reporting user who has never done it before. :) 
[15:48] <zequence> autumna1: YOu mean, should he contact me per email? Not sure what you mean.
[15:49] <autumna1> haha no. I meant can I write down something that can be later stuck into to the common questions here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio etc
[15:51] <zequence> autumna1: Oh, now I understand. Sure, that is quite fine.
[15:51] <autumna1> cool
[15:58] <zequence> autumna1: This is an old page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/ReportingBugs
[15:59] <zequence> autumna1: If you like, just rewrite it from scratch, and add a link to it somewhere in the help wiki page
[15:59] <zequence> and, if you have opinions about the help wiki, and its organization, don't be shy. No one has worked on that for quite a while
[15:59] <autumna1> I can just modify this
[16:00] <zequence> autumna1: The information on that page is for reporting a bug to the Ubuntu Studio project. That is old. We use ubuntu-bug, but if we don't know which package we can use the launchpad project page instead
[16:00] <zequence> So, the content in that page could be used for the other alternative.
[16:01] <autumna1> I am thinking more of a starting point how to for people. 
[16:01] <autumna1> like for a user it is not clear what belongs to ubuntu studio and what belongs to normal ubuntu. (as you might have seen from me yesterday :) )
[16:02] <zequence> autumna1: Absolutely. It's a good thing to develop. I can take a look at the page once you have edited it, and give you feedback.
[16:03] <zequence> We're planning to modify the web site shortly. One thing we could add is clearer support info
[16:04] <autumna1> *nods*
[16:05] <autumna1> I'll definitely try to help out at this stage too. 
[16:08] <autumna1> at that stage*
[16:08] <zequence> autumna1: Good to know. There's no big rite of passage. Whatever you want to do, as long as it's not crazy, you are free to do it, and we'll give you access to what is needed
[16:09] <autumna1> thank you. just being cautious to not accidentally step on toes that's all. :)
[16:10] <zequence> autumna1: Good to avoid breaking things, yes.
[16:12] <autumna1> okay. apparently there is such a thing as "immutable page". new page it is XD
[16:13] <zequence> autumna1: Really?
[16:13] <autumna1> yep
[16:13] <zequence> Going to check
[16:13] <zequence> Haven
[16:13] <autumna1> *laughs*
[16:13] <zequence> Haven't seen that before among our pages
[16:14] <zequence> Ah, there seems to be a new system for wiki pages
[16:14] <zequence> ethernet-pad members and ubuntu memebers
[16:14] <zequence> ubuntu-etherpad, sorry
[16:14] <zequence> Long time since I logged in
[16:15] <autumna1> ah well considering everybody ends up getting an ubuntu-one account at some point for some reason, it makes sense I guess?
[16:18] <zequence> I'm able to edit, but I logged in as a Ubuntu member
[16:20] <zequence> autumna1: Think it helps security. ubuntuforums was hacked a while back, and then switched to the unified account thing
[16:20] <autumna1> aah
[16:20] <autumna1> ok this is way too complicated (how to get editing access) I'll just focus on writing the doc first offline
[16:21] <zequence> Unlike Debian, Ubuntu has some additional restrictions on things. Like certain mail lists. You can only post if you have access
[16:21] <autumna1> *nods*
[16:21] <zequence> autumna1: Did you try loggin in?
[16:21] <autumna1> yes I did
[16:21] <autumna1> well
[16:21] <autumna1> actually
[16:21] <autumna1> the question is not if I did log in
[16:21] <autumna1> the question is what did I login WITH
[16:22] <zequence> autumna1: ubuntu-etherpad should do it
[16:22] <autumna1> *blinks
[16:22] <zequence> Ok, dinner time. bbl
[16:22] <autumna1> I have an ubuntu-one account that open log-in into the wiki
[19:24] <sakrecoer> autumna: i used to get locked out from the wiki on a regular basis, until i joined the ether-pad team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
[19:25] <flocculant> I think that the need to be in the etherpad team is still there to edit wiki 
[19:25] <autumna> I see. ok
[19:25] <flocculant> oh
[19:26]  * flocculant makes note to read further back ... I see zequence said that :p
[19:26] <flocculant> autumna: just join at the launchpad page - they get approved pretty quickly afaik
[19:27] <autumna> ok. *does so*
[19:27] <sakrecoer> i was about to ping you flocculant :)
[19:27] <flocculant> sakrecoer: no need now :)
[19:27] <flocculant> well - you did actually ping me :p
[19:28] <sakrecoer> flocculant: who need wifi? :D
[19:28] <flocculant> the cat 
[19:32] <zequence> flocculant, sakrecoer; I was actually going to ask sakrecoer to tell us more about this problem, cause I remember him saying something about becoming an -etherpad member
[19:32] <zequence> At the time, i had no idea you needed that
[19:34] <flocculant> zequence: it turned up with the spam problem
[19:34] <flocculant> afaik it is still a requirement
[19:37] <flocculant> deters the drive-by page edits I suppose
[19:37] <flocculant> price to pay always :(
[19:39] <zequence> Either spam is getting bigger, or Ubuntu is
[19:39] <flocculant> cycles
[19:41] <flocculant> they find a way in and use it 
[20:06] <autumna> my bet is on spam in this case. even when user base increases, documentation isn't what most people go for. 
[20:08] <zequence> autumna: flocculant gave us some estimation on the amount of spam earlier on the #ubuntustudio-offtopic channel. Please join!
[20:08] <flocculant> autumna: yup it's just about getting google to see your link I guess 
[20:09] <flocculant> hardly likely to be anyone reading ubuntu wiki daft enough to do anything with a spam link 
[20:34]  * autumna understands
[20:34] <autumna> *mistell