/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/04/19/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

OvenWerkskrytarik: I would think so, but it is not daily right now, so the question becomes when :)00:30
krytarikOvenWerks: I guess if it didn't happen by morning UTC, we should have another run at it ourselves. :P00:57
flocculantsomething awry with your build - log says it built 9/10 hours ago - tracker says it's rebuilding05:51
flocculantas far as rebuilds go - if there's no-one about from your team to trigger it - I'm pretty sure I have perm to do so05:52
zequenceOur ship seed may have caused it. Both cjwatson and infinity were poiking in our seeds yesterday07:58
cfhowlettthat sounds ... shady ...08:01
zequencecfhowlett: They were fixing our ISO build problem08:04
zequenceinfinty is the Ubuntu release manager and cjwatson is one of the original authors of a lot of stuff in the infrastructure08:05
zequence..or at least maintainer, if not author. Think he did ubiquity.08:05
zequenceAnyway, we are in safe hands :)08:06
zequenceflocculant: How do you trigger it, if not from the qa page?08:18
cubAnyone know if the iso will be built today?09:22
zequencecub: Hopefully it will build :)09:28
zequencecub: I'm poking people about it now. We can usually do rebuilds ourselves, but the qa site has hung after yesterdays failure09:33
cubLooking at the time stamps on previous builds it seems it won't be until late afternoon/evening Swedish time09:33
cubAha or we can trigger a build at other times?09:34
zequenceYes, members of ubuntustudio-release have access to those controls at iso.qa.ubuntu.com09:34
cubI was hoping to run an installation in the background while doing mindnumbing excel spreadsheet work09:34
zequenceWonder what actually caused the build failure though. Not because of any change we did. But, apparently our seeds included some old stuff that is not used anymore09:36
zequenceI still have much to learn in that area myself09:36
autumnazequence: about the website code, do we have a coding style we are following or just writing for now? 14:13
zequenceautumna: Nope. I'm a beginner css and php hacker myself, and just try to follow the common standards14:15
zequenceactually, need to remove some stuff that I realized we don't need anymore from functions.php14:15
autumnaawesome ok. 14:16
zequencesakrecoer: autumna: The feature definition page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial14:36
zequenceMake additions or suggest changes14:37
sakrecoernice zequence! Tahnks! also, great to have you in the webteam autumna :)14:38
autumnanice to be here sakrecoer :) I'll poke at the css a bit later. (if I can figure out git in time) 14:41
sakrecoer:) autumna: to jsut clone it all you need to do is: clone git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-website14:43
sakrecoer(i'm no way an epxert, but zequence pasted that command in OT14:43
autumnaI know. will probably also need a xampp or something similar to view the pages through14:45
zequenceautumna: I can give you your own WP installation if you want. I have loads of space. Just one click away14:47
autumnaI might ask for it if I end up doing something more serious than poking at color scheme14:48
zequencealright14:48
autumnabut I should really be good and learn to how to work with a proper workflow, instead of my usual habit of SSHing and changing things on spot14:48
zequenceyeah, shouldn't we all learn that14:49
zequenceThe blueprints page https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/website-topic-x14:49
sakrecoerzequence: "We are planning to update the website look and content for the release of 16.04." ehm... that would be this thursday right?14:49
zequencesakrecoer: Well, let's not be too pedantic about dates, shall we?14:49
sakrecoerhehe ok :)14:50
zequenceI should have said around the release of 16.0414:50
* sakrecoer puts an icecube under my shirt.14:50
zequenceThe blueprints are very simple. You can add tasks there, if they correspond with the feature definition14:50
autumnaUNLESS you want to compare 2 designs side by side, in which case, give me my own stage away and I'll be happily lazy *snort*14:51
zequenceAlso, if you want to take on a task, just change [ubuntustudio-website] into your own LP nick, and TODO into INPROGRESS14:51
zequenceautumna: sure14:51
zequencesakrecoer: So, this is the basics of how we should have done all the work this cycle - feature definitions -> blueprints -> code14:52
sakrecoer:)14:53
zequenceFeature definitions can be worked on for a good while during the initial part of the cycle, and that is translated into a blueprint.14:57
zequenceFinally, the person responsible checks the blueprint for sanity, and marks it ready and approved14:57
zequenceThen, everyone just follows the blueprint14:57
zequenceWhenever you need changes to the blueprints - if it conflicts or changes something, it needs to be discussed first, and again, the person responsible needs to approve14:58
zequenceThis way we all know which way we are heading and people can work independently during the cycle14:58
zequenceThe person who approves can be either a team lead, or the project lead14:59
zequenceFeature Definition Freeze means planning stops, and blueprints are cemented15:00
zequenceBut, we only follow that, if we want to. If we really want to be serious, we add the blueprints to the Ubuntu project, not to the UBuntu Studio one15:00
zequenceWe're such a small team usually, that the organization of blueprints usually is just work for nothing, as only one or two people are using them15:01
zequenceLet's hope things are different the following two years15:01
sakrecoerhmm... got a mail that i'm subsrcribed to the blueprint, but LP says i'm not... needs time to cron?15:01
sakrecoeralso i fail to understand how the dependency diagram is established15:02
zequencesakrecoer: If you're in the core team, you are subscribed to all sub teams15:02
sakrecoerok :)15:02
zequencesakrecoer: If you check the bottom of the page, you see the link "add dependencu"15:02
sakrecoer"established" is the wrong word...15:02
zequenceIf you add a dependency to a blueprint, the dependency appears above that blueprint15:02
zequenceAnd, you can add as many as you want. I've just simply put all blueprints as dependencies to the main topic blueprint15:03
zequenceActually, this blueprint is supposed to just be a topic, originally, so I should renambe it15:03
sakrecoerok, i'm starting to get it... i think :)15:03
zequenceBut, doesn't matter. It's the last blueprint for X. You can create your own thing for next release15:04
zequenceRosco2: Hi. We seem to have problems getting a new build15:04
Rosco2Just switched on to see if the build failure was still there15:05
zequenceRosco2: Can't even get a comment in the release channel as to why, but I'm not hounding people15:05
zequenceseeds were changed, but I'm unsure if that is a fix15:05
Rosco2Yeah - I saw the changes15:05
Rosco2Wasn't sure it it was a fix - or the failure15:05
Rosco2It was only after those changes that the build failed15:06
zequenceReally?15:07
zequenceAh, maybe only the first change did that15:07
zequence..and the second one fixed it probably15:08
Rosco2I am not sure about the order of things15:09
Rosco2I was quickly scanning the emails this morning before I went off to work15:09
Rosco2Have we tried a rebuild recently?15:09
zequenceRosco2: both me and flocculant have asked about it on -release15:10
zequenceRosco2: You can give it a try, if you want :)15:11
Rosco2Just logging into the tracker now15:11
zequenceRosco2: I've tried to rebuild from there a couple of times, but it seems to have stuck15:13
Rosco2OK - I can see it still says rebuilding15:16
zequenceYep15:17
Rosco2I am not expecting that if I click on the same thing that I will have a different result :-)15:17
zequenceI already tried canceling the build request as well. Nothing15:18
Rosco2Hmmm. 5:58 PM yesterday seeds changed by infinity. Build failed email 9:55 PM. Colin changed seeds 12:24 AM today15:21
Rosco2just saw stgrabers response on the release channel15:23
zequenceRosco2: Yep. hopefully infinity will work it out15:25
Rosco2Build seemed to crash after trying to fetch our seeds branch15:27
Rosco2Just did a bzr pull and it worked here15:27
Rosco2And I have one more revision than the log of the build failure15:28
zequenceRosco2: There are always a couple of seed pulls that don't work15:59
zequenceRosco2: But, I'm sure dropping our ship seed, when still keeping it in STRUCTURE was a bad idea15:59
Rosco2zequence: yeah - but the log didn't seem to get that far16:42
Rosco2It seemed to crash and stop16:42
Rosco2Anyway, I can still do some dist-upgrade tests while I wait16:43
sakrecoerbug #157224917:27
ubottubug 1572249 in ubuntustudio-look (Ubuntu) "Errors in /usr/share/gnome-background-properties/ubuntustudio-wallpapers.xml : missing attributions erroneous file-path" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157224917:27
zequenceJudging from the communication in -release, I would say there will respins in a couple of hours18:49
OvenWerkswaiting :)18:49
Rosco2My upgrade from Trusty to Xenial still fails18:50
zequenceRosco2: I've never trusted those anyway18:50
zequenceRosco2: But, what is causing it?18:50
zequenceIf it's a change in one of our packages, we should probably take a look at that18:51
Rosco2bug #157226218:52
ubottubug 1561420 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1572262 Upgrade from Trusty to Xenial failed (Ubuntu Studio)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156142018:52
Rosco2apt log shows lots of broken packages, but I haven't studied it yet18:52
zequenceThat's a lot of packages. I'm happy to stay out of that one.18:55
zequenceDoesn't seem very Ubuntu Studio specific either18:57
OvenWerksRosco2: system service stuff? session startup? upstart to systemd maybe?19:00
Rosco2I nearly marked another bug report as duplicate19:01
Rosco2He wasn't on Studio19:01
Rosco2OvenWerks: I can see many old tricky transitions in there that affected most of the archive19:04
Rosco2Gnome guys report that machine doesn't start after the upgrade19:05
Rosco2O don't get that far :-)19:05
OvenWerksRosco2: The other problem for me is that my 14.04 is not in any way stock. I do development work on it too. so any upgrade script that handles only the applications/utilities on the ISO is likely to fail.19:08
Rosco2I am glad now that I followed every release since then19:10
OvenWerksI normally reinstall and link in the folders on my old home. I end up reinstalling all the dev files etc.19:10
OvenWerksupgrade is much more important with my server though.19:11
OvenWerks(server is both upgrading and going from 32->64 bit :P19:12
Rosco2Losing my home directory on the Music Studio may not be a bad idea19:14
Rosco2There is some horrible music created on there19:14
Rosco2:-)19:14
autumnazequence: http://autumna.zequence.net/ you probably already know this, but you can do quite a bit with css. 20:03
knomeautumna, instead of changing some of the basic structures of the theme, why don't you focus on how you would make a feature tour work with the theme?20:18
autumnaoh, I think sakrecoer is working on the feature tour? 20:19
knomei don't know20:19
knomefrom the original theme author POV, these kind of changes are not really what i'm expecting20:20
autumnathe too much fun with css aside, the original background of the header chosen was making the text a bit hard to read, so I was trying to find a way to fix that without using another color. at least that is where I sidetracked ;D20:20
knomeyou can change the color from the theme options20:21
knomeyou don't need to apply any CSS yourself20:21
sakrecoeryes, i am, but you are wellcome to help me autumna :) i'm commuting home right now, but i'll push it to some good place. maybe that way i can focus on the text and pictures. of course i will probably need feedback on that too..20:22
autumnayeah but I couldn't find a way to make it transparent, which was what I was trying to do (originally)20:22
knomewhy would you need to make it transparent?20:23
autumnasakrecoer just let me know which plugin you are using if you are using one, but yeah seeing the content would make it easier20:23
autumnato change the color without changing the color? 20:23
knomethere is nothing in the background that would make the color change anyway20:23
sakrecoerautumna: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/tour/20:23
sakrecoerno plugin, plain html...20:23
autumnathere is the gray color. 20:24
autumnaand yes, if we did a flat color, I would eventually just get the midway color and use that, rather than using transparency20:24
autumnasakrecoer: i can take this and see if I can take this and stuff it into a plugin20:26
autumnaif you want20:26
sakrecoerthat sounds AWESOME autumna!!!20:27
knomeinstead of creating a plugin, why don't you create a page template in the child theme that allows the content area to span the whole window width?20:28
autumnaknome: I was actually just thinking something along the same lines20:29
knomeand on the same breath, that's why i'm here to begin with20:29
knomei have been asking how you want to do things X, Y, Z but haven't heard anything back20:29
knomeso ideally the page template could even be somehow integrated in the main theme20:30
knometo make sure everything is done right...20:30
autumnaI was poking into a child template actually that zequence created for us. 20:30
knomei know20:31
knomei've talked with him about it20:32
autumnabut if you want it in the main template.. if this is to be a permanent part of the main template... maybe it might be better to have multiple items20:32
autumnafor each "Page" of the feature tour20:32
knomethat's related to content, not code20:32
autumnahow so?20:33
knomehow is it related to code whether you present something in one or five pages?20:34
knomeor if you have one or five menu items for it?20:34
sakrecoerknome: the layout of the feature tour is different from the blog roll20:35
autumnano what I meant wasn't having separate pages. 20:35
autumnaI meant the output would look a single page20:36
knomesakrecoer, ack20:36
knomesakrecoer, i'm getting that since day one..20:36
autumnabut when updating you would see different items20:36
knomeupdating?20:36
autumnaok so basically, the way sakrecoer made the feature tour is 1 page, with different categories. intro, audio, video, graphics20:38
autumnaeach of these groupings have their own background image, title (I assume eventually) and content.20:38
autumnaso in some ways these are all independent "pages". so the template should allow multiple items of this type, but when viewing, view them one under another. 20:39
zequenceknome: We're looking at doing exactly that - custom templates, but I haven't done that yet. Need to see how we can have custom css for those pages20:40
zequenceLike full width for certain elements20:40
autumnaits more modular, so the person doing the content entry doesn't have to play with the divs, and positioning background images, etc, -20:40
autumnahi zequence :)20:41
zequenceautumna: Hi20:41
knomezequence, the easiest way is to make sure the new page template has a specific body id/class, then in the css just do body#id/.class element { ... }20:41
zequenceknome: Right20:41
knomeyou want to keep the structure of the html as intact as possible so you can benfit all the things the theme is doing for you20:42
zequenceI'm thinking inheritng most of the css for the new body#id, and just change the details that matter20:45
zequenceSince I do this kind of work so seldom, I have a very poor experience in what strategy is the best20:45
zequenceI mean, poor experience, not a poor experience20:46
zequenceIt's also a matter of which way is the simplest for us - do we do the whole page in code, or do we make a custom page which we fill with content from WP20:48
zequenceIt's a lot simpler to edit using WP, as otherwise we need to have Canonical admins upload our changes20:49
zequenceMeaning, it's easier to do the content from WP, which we have access to. We don't have direct access to the WP installation itself. NO ftp access, in other words20:49
autumnazequence: re ease, do you plan to update content in this layout when 16.10 comes? or do we expect the website will change again?20:51
zequenceautumna: I would expect the website to stay pretty much the same at least until next LTS20:51
zequenceOne of the main reasons to change this time, is to have the page being mobile friendly, but we might as well improve what else we can while doing it20:52
autumna*nods* yeah to me it seems there can be some use to making a template page, I mean what sakrecoer created here looks pretty modern and can be reused even by other groups if we created something that makes it possible.20:53
autumnathe con is that I am not sure how difficult or easy it would be to create a template like that, I mean it is possible it isn't super complicated just.. I never did PHP development in WP.20:53
autumnaalso there IS a third option20:54
autumnathat we just plug everything in now, to get things ready for thursday20:54
autumnathen calmly make it into a custom page template later. ;D20:55
zequenceautumna: Oh, but thursday is not the goal. We don't have time to meet that however we do it20:55
autumnabut if as soon as possible after thursday is the goal20:55
zequenceSure. I mean, it shouldn't have to take longer than needed, so we can spend time on other things too.20:56
sakrecoeri like the 3rd idea... :) but it would imply a blogpost for feature tour..20:56
zequenceIf it happens to be next week or two months from now, I think is irrelevant20:56
autumnasakrecoer we probably at least will need to create a custom div style and make it 100% to put the whole thing in there20:56
zequencesakrecoer: Not a blog post. A page. Its' different20:56
autumnaI think.. or as knome recommended, to have a different body type20:57
sakrecoerthe good thing about updating tge layout of website later is that we have a good reason to poke everyone on social media20:57
autumnaso either way that is happening20:57
zequenceThere are some limitations as to what you can do in html from inside WP20:57
autumna*nods*. I think we can pull it off with the current layout20:57
autumnaactually.. wait how do we create a custom page type?20:58
sakrecoerok, i thougt the onky diff between blogpost and page is that blogposts show up in the blogroll...20:58
autumnaactually20:59
autumnaI wonder if we can do it without it being a custom page, but just a page20:59
zequencesakrecoer: The editing between a page or post is no different, but how they are organized is20:59
* autumna goes to try20:59
zequenceautumna: We can't, if we want images to have full width, while text has adaptive width21:00
zequenceThere's no way to link the html from the page to a custom css. That's why we need a custom page21:00
autumnaI see21:01
zequenceThere are plugins that allow you to create custom pages, and I suppose they create custom html elements, but I wouldn't want to mess too much with that21:01
zequenceLet's sort out the elements we want, and see how we can best implement them21:01
knomeagain, you only need a custom page template21:01
zequenceknome: How do we do custom backgrounds for different divs in the content?21:02
zequence..with a custom page template21:02
knomeyou'll still need to control that separately21:02
knomethe template would allow you to have full-width content21:03
zequenceBut, let's focus on what we want to customize first, ok?21:03
knomeone option is to load the different "modules" as autumna described above, but i think that's a bit hacky21:03
knomeand my guess is that ultimately, you end up wanting to change more than you can with that kind of template and thus requiring code updates via IS21:04
knomei imagine you ideally want to change the feature tour in a major way only every 2 years with a new LTS21:05
knomeit's not so bad to have to ask IS for updates once in two years21:05
zequenceYeah, if we only update certain pages that often, it would be no problem21:06
zequenceEven once every 6 months is ok21:06
knomeindeed21:06
knomein reality, i request for updates from IS to the xubuntu website maybe once a month or two21:06
knomethey are even really responsive as we track the code in bzr and keep the changes in relatively small batches21:07
knomeand they don't really need to do code review for CSS21:07
knomebut if you had a PHP template you needed to update... yeah, it would likely take longer21:07
zequenceautumna: sakrecoer: The bottom of the feature page has bullets for things we want to customize. Please add new bullets if you think of any https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial#Things_we_want_to_be_able_to_do_in_our_custom_pages:21:08
autumnait does look like we need to be able to either layer divs on top of each other, or have a custom div type that we can put background in yes, but also style, margins etc.. again I might be stating the obvious. 21:16
autumna(is anybody else getting 500s trying to login?) 21:17
zequenceautumna: Yes, that would be the technical solution side of it. I don't have a clear idea myself how to best do it, but some sort of custom divs will be needed21:19
zequenceIf using the WP page editor, the question is how we can do stuff like full width images from there. And, my first thought is adding a class to a html tag in the html editor21:20
knomei'm worrying that you are overthinking it and that it'll end up being really wonky anyway21:20
zequenceknome: If we do that, maybe you can help straighten us out once we know more exactly how we want to do things :)21:21
knomelet's see21:21
knomei want to help, but if it's something completely custom, then i don't know if it's sensible for me to put a lot of work into it21:22
zequenceNo, and I wouldn't want to do that either myself21:23
autumnaok question. 21:23
autumnawill the backgrounds change?21:23
zequenceautumna: Which backgrounds?21:23
autumnathe backgrounds of the feature tour. unless we plan to use this custom page style for something else as well?21:24
zequencethe feature tour sakrecoer is more of a mockup, where he used existing art21:24
zequenceBut, I say we keep what works21:24
autumnaI know but the point is, there is 4 categories. intro, audio software, video software and graphic software21:24
autumnaare we likely to add or remove categories from the page?21:25
zequenceNope21:25
autumnathen what we basically need is 4 content areas21:25
zequenceautumna: I was able to login to the wiki just now. Took a little while though21:25
autumna*tries again*21:25
autumnaif we can have 4 content areas to edit ( a normal page just has one) then we are fine. it is also hacky but.. at least it doesn't go into plugin territory like the individual pages idea. the other option I can really think is the individual modules thing which is more like a modified blog really which is.. complicated21:28
sakrecoeri think i'd better step back from here, not much i can do to help with wordspress except feeding back on results.. but if i had to do it myself, i'd host the feature tour in html in a subdomain pointing to some github pages,veffectively allowing us any shape or form without having to bother RT..21:34
sakrecoeri'l focus on the content instead :) texts and those icons21:35
zequencesakrecoer: We might customization on other pages as well, and be able to change them at any time21:35
zequenceWe can't have the whole site as subdomains21:35
zequenceParticularly if we decide to have the feature tour as the front page21:35
autumnalet me see if there is a plugin we can use, that will have the same result21:36
sakrecoermakes sense... what would canonical think of us having the hole site on github?21:36
zequenceThere's still the option of having totally custom pages, not editable from WP, but without subdomains21:37
zequenceJust need a little bit of php to work that out21:37
zequenceBut, nothing major21:37
* zequence not knowing exactly how, but will find out21:38
sakrecoerok :)21:40
autumnaor we could go into a different direction..21:40
autumnahttps://wordpress.org/plugins/featured-pages-customizer/ and use something like this21:40
autumna*brainstorms*21:40
sakrecoershoot just shoot autumna 21:41
sakrecoer:)21:41
zequenceautumna: You can always install them on your staging site and try to reproduce something similar to what sakrecoer did21:43
autumna*nods*21:43
autumnaI might do that21:43
zequenceJust as proof of concept21:43
autumnaok I think I found something 21:53
autumnahttp://getonepager.com/ trying this now will report findings ;D21:54
zequenceSeems respins are imminent, though will take some time to complete22:02
zequenceSo, tomorrow is ISO testing day22:02
autumnayay22:24
Rosco2cross fingers - here it comes22:29
Rosco2respins started22:30
sakrecoer\o/22:32
autumnazequence: sakrecoer ok this is not remotely done but: http://autumna.zequence.net/feature-tour just to give an idea of what we can do with a plugin. The default options are a bit limiting but it seems enough to get things done? 23:04

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