[00:30] krytarik: I would think so, but it is not daily right now, so the question becomes when :) [00:57] OvenWerks: I guess if it didn't happen by morning UTC, we should have another run at it ourselves. :P [05:51] something awry with your build - log says it built 9/10 hours ago - tracker says it's rebuilding [05:52] as far as rebuilds go - if there's no-one about from your team to trigger it - I'm pretty sure I have perm to do so [07:58] Our ship seed may have caused it. Both cjwatson and infinity were poiking in our seeds yesterday [08:01] that sounds ... shady ... [08:04] cfhowlett: They were fixing our ISO build problem [08:05] infinty is the Ubuntu release manager and cjwatson is one of the original authors of a lot of stuff in the infrastructure [08:05] ..or at least maintainer, if not author. Think he did ubiquity. [08:06] Anyway, we are in safe hands :) [08:18] flocculant: How do you trigger it, if not from the qa page? [09:22] Anyone know if the iso will be built today? [09:28] cub: Hopefully it will build :) [09:33] cub: I'm poking people about it now. We can usually do rebuilds ourselves, but the qa site has hung after yesterdays failure [09:33] Looking at the time stamps on previous builds it seems it won't be until late afternoon/evening Swedish time [09:34] Aha or we can trigger a build at other times? [09:34] Yes, members of ubuntustudio-release have access to those controls at iso.qa.ubuntu.com [09:34] I was hoping to run an installation in the background while doing mindnumbing excel spreadsheet work [09:36] Wonder what actually caused the build failure though. Not because of any change we did. But, apparently our seeds included some old stuff that is not used anymore [09:36] I still have much to learn in that area myself [14:13] zequence: about the website code, do we have a coding style we are following or just writing for now? [14:15] autumna: Nope. I'm a beginner css and php hacker myself, and just try to follow the common standards [14:15] actually, need to remove some stuff that I realized we don't need anymore from functions.php [14:16] awesome ok. [14:36] sakrecoer: autumna: The feature definition page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial [14:37] Make additions or suggest changes [14:38] nice zequence! Tahnks! also, great to have you in the webteam autumna :) [14:41] nice to be here sakrecoer :) I'll poke at the css a bit later. (if I can figure out git in time) [14:43] :) autumna: to jsut clone it all you need to do is: clone git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-website [14:43] (i'm no way an epxert, but zequence pasted that command in OT [14:45] I know. will probably also need a xampp or something similar to view the pages through [14:47] autumna: I can give you your own WP installation if you want. I have loads of space. Just one click away [14:48] I might ask for it if I end up doing something more serious than poking at color scheme [14:48] alright [14:48] but I should really be good and learn to how to work with a proper workflow, instead of my usual habit of SSHing and changing things on spot [14:49] yeah, shouldn't we all learn that [14:49] The blueprints page https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/website-topic-x [14:49] zequence: "We are planning to update the website look and content for the release of 16.04." ehm... that would be this thursday right? [14:49] sakrecoer: Well, let's not be too pedantic about dates, shall we? [14:50] hehe ok :) [14:50] I should have said around the release of 16.04 [14:50] * sakrecoer puts an icecube under my shirt. [14:50] The blueprints are very simple. You can add tasks there, if they correspond with the feature definition [14:51] UNLESS you want to compare 2 designs side by side, in which case, give me my own stage away and I'll be happily lazy *snort* [14:51] Also, if you want to take on a task, just change [ubuntustudio-website] into your own LP nick, and TODO into INPROGRESS [14:51] autumna: sure [14:52] sakrecoer: So, this is the basics of how we should have done all the work this cycle - feature definitions -> blueprints -> code [14:53] :) [14:57] Feature definitions can be worked on for a good while during the initial part of the cycle, and that is translated into a blueprint. [14:57] Finally, the person responsible checks the blueprint for sanity, and marks it ready and approved [14:57] Then, everyone just follows the blueprint [14:58] Whenever you need changes to the blueprints - if it conflicts or changes something, it needs to be discussed first, and again, the person responsible needs to approve [14:58] This way we all know which way we are heading and people can work independently during the cycle [14:59] The person who approves can be either a team lead, or the project lead [15:00] Feature Definition Freeze means planning stops, and blueprints are cemented [15:00] But, we only follow that, if we want to. If we really want to be serious, we add the blueprints to the Ubuntu project, not to the UBuntu Studio one [15:01] We're such a small team usually, that the organization of blueprints usually is just work for nothing, as only one or two people are using them [15:01] Let's hope things are different the following two years [15:01] hmm... got a mail that i'm subsrcribed to the blueprint, but LP says i'm not... needs time to cron? [15:02] also i fail to understand how the dependency diagram is established [15:02] sakrecoer: If you're in the core team, you are subscribed to all sub teams [15:02] ok :) [15:02] sakrecoer: If you check the bottom of the page, you see the link "add dependencu" [15:02] "established" is the wrong word... [15:02] If you add a dependency to a blueprint, the dependency appears above that blueprint [15:03] And, you can add as many as you want. I've just simply put all blueprints as dependencies to the main topic blueprint [15:03] Actually, this blueprint is supposed to just be a topic, originally, so I should renambe it [15:03] ok, i'm starting to get it... i think :) [15:04] But, doesn't matter. It's the last blueprint for X. You can create your own thing for next release [15:04] Rosco2: Hi. We seem to have problems getting a new build [15:05] Just switched on to see if the build failure was still there [15:05] Rosco2: Can't even get a comment in the release channel as to why, but I'm not hounding people [15:05] seeds were changed, but I'm unsure if that is a fix [15:05] Yeah - I saw the changes [15:05] Wasn't sure it it was a fix - or the failure [15:06] It was only after those changes that the build failed [15:07] Really? [15:07] Ah, maybe only the first change did that [15:08] ..and the second one fixed it probably [15:09] I am not sure about the order of things [15:09] I was quickly scanning the emails this morning before I went off to work [15:09] Have we tried a rebuild recently? [15:10] Rosco2: both me and flocculant have asked about it on -release [15:11] Rosco2: You can give it a try, if you want :) [15:11] Just logging into the tracker now [15:13] Rosco2: I've tried to rebuild from there a couple of times, but it seems to have stuck [15:16] OK - I can see it still says rebuilding [15:17] Yep [15:17] I am not expecting that if I click on the same thing that I will have a different result :-) [15:18] I already tried canceling the build request as well. Nothing [15:21] Hmmm. 5:58 PM yesterday seeds changed by infinity. Build failed email 9:55 PM. Colin changed seeds 12:24 AM today [15:23] just saw stgrabers response on the release channel [15:25] Rosco2: Yep. hopefully infinity will work it out [15:27] Build seemed to crash after trying to fetch our seeds branch [15:27] Just did a bzr pull and it worked here [15:28] And I have one more revision than the log of the build failure [15:59] Rosco2: There are always a couple of seed pulls that don't work [15:59] Rosco2: But, I'm sure dropping our ship seed, when still keeping it in STRUCTURE was a bad idea [16:42] zequence: yeah - but the log didn't seem to get that far [16:42] It seemed to crash and stop [16:43] Anyway, I can still do some dist-upgrade tests while I wait [17:27] bug #1572249 [17:27] bug 1572249 in ubuntustudio-look (Ubuntu) "Errors in /usr/share/gnome-background-properties/ubuntustudio-wallpapers.xml : missing attributions erroneous file-path" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572249 [18:49] Judging from the communication in -release, I would say there will respins in a couple of hours [18:49] waiting :) [18:50] My upgrade from Trusty to Xenial still fails [18:50] Rosco2: I've never trusted those anyway [18:50] Rosco2: But, what is causing it? [18:51] If it's a change in one of our packages, we should probably take a look at that [18:52] bug #1572262 [18:52] bug 1561420 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1572262 Upgrade from Trusty to Xenial failed (Ubuntu Studio)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561420 [18:52] apt log shows lots of broken packages, but I haven't studied it yet [18:55] That's a lot of packages. I'm happy to stay out of that one. [18:57] Doesn't seem very Ubuntu Studio specific either [19:00] Rosco2: system service stuff? session startup? upstart to systemd maybe? [19:01] I nearly marked another bug report as duplicate [19:01] He wasn't on Studio [19:04] OvenWerks: I can see many old tricky transitions in there that affected most of the archive [19:05] Gnome guys report that machine doesn't start after the upgrade [19:05] O don't get that far :-) [19:08] Rosco2: The other problem for me is that my 14.04 is not in any way stock. I do development work on it too. so any upgrade script that handles only the applications/utilities on the ISO is likely to fail. [19:10] I am glad now that I followed every release since then [19:10] I normally reinstall and link in the folders on my old home. I end up reinstalling all the dev files etc. [19:11] upgrade is much more important with my server though. [19:12] (server is both upgrading and going from 32->64 bit :P [19:14] Losing my home directory on the Music Studio may not be a bad idea [19:14] There is some horrible music created on there [19:14] :-) [20:03] zequence: http://autumna.zequence.net/ you probably already know this, but you can do quite a bit with css. [20:18] autumna, instead of changing some of the basic structures of the theme, why don't you focus on how you would make a feature tour work with the theme? [20:19] oh, I think sakrecoer is working on the feature tour? [20:19] i don't know [20:20] from the original theme author POV, these kind of changes are not really what i'm expecting [20:20] the too much fun with css aside, the original background of the header chosen was making the text a bit hard to read, so I was trying to find a way to fix that without using another color. at least that is where I sidetracked ;D [20:21] you can change the color from the theme options [20:21] you don't need to apply any CSS yourself [20:22] yes, i am, but you are wellcome to help me autumna :) i'm commuting home right now, but i'll push it to some good place. maybe that way i can focus on the text and pictures. of course i will probably need feedback on that too.. [20:22] yeah but I couldn't find a way to make it transparent, which was what I was trying to do (originally) [20:23] why would you need to make it transparent? [20:23] sakrecoer just let me know which plugin you are using if you are using one, but yeah seeing the content would make it easier [20:23] to change the color without changing the color? [20:23] there is nothing in the background that would make the color change anyway [20:23] autumna: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/tour/ [20:23] no plugin, plain html... [20:24] there is the gray color. [20:24] and yes, if we did a flat color, I would eventually just get the midway color and use that, rather than using transparency [20:26] sakrecoer: i can take this and see if I can take this and stuff it into a plugin [20:26] if you want [20:27] that sounds AWESOME autumna!!! [20:28] instead of creating a plugin, why don't you create a page template in the child theme that allows the content area to span the whole window width? [20:29] knome: I was actually just thinking something along the same lines [20:29] and on the same breath, that's why i'm here to begin with [20:29] i have been asking how you want to do things X, Y, Z but haven't heard anything back [20:30] so ideally the page template could even be somehow integrated in the main theme [20:30] to make sure everything is done right... [20:30] I was poking into a child template actually that zequence created for us. [20:31] i know [20:32] i've talked with him about it [20:32] but if you want it in the main template.. if this is to be a permanent part of the main template... maybe it might be better to have multiple items [20:32] for each "Page" of the feature tour [20:32] that's related to content, not code [20:33] how so? [20:34] how is it related to code whether you present something in one or five pages? [20:34] or if you have one or five menu items for it? [20:35] knome: the layout of the feature tour is different from the blog roll [20:35] no what I meant wasn't having separate pages. [20:36] I meant the output would look a single page [20:36] sakrecoer, ack [20:36] sakrecoer, i'm getting that since day one.. [20:36] but when updating you would see different items [20:36] updating? [20:38] ok so basically, the way sakrecoer made the feature tour is 1 page, with different categories. intro, audio, video, graphics [20:38] each of these groupings have their own background image, title (I assume eventually) and content. [20:39] so in some ways these are all independent "pages". so the template should allow multiple items of this type, but when viewing, view them one under another. [20:40] knome: We're looking at doing exactly that - custom templates, but I haven't done that yet. Need to see how we can have custom css for those pages [20:40] Like full width for certain elements [20:40] its more modular, so the person doing the content entry doesn't have to play with the divs, and positioning background images, etc, - [20:41] hi zequence :) [20:41] autumna: Hi [20:41] zequence, the easiest way is to make sure the new page template has a specific body id/class, then in the css just do body#id/.class element { ... } [20:41] knome: Right [20:42] you want to keep the structure of the html as intact as possible so you can benfit all the things the theme is doing for you [20:45] I'm thinking inheritng most of the css for the new body#id, and just change the details that matter [20:45] Since I do this kind of work so seldom, I have a very poor experience in what strategy is the best [20:46] I mean, poor experience, not a poor experience [20:48] It's also a matter of which way is the simplest for us - do we do the whole page in code, or do we make a custom page which we fill with content from WP [20:49] It's a lot simpler to edit using WP, as otherwise we need to have Canonical admins upload our changes [20:49] Meaning, it's easier to do the content from WP, which we have access to. We don't have direct access to the WP installation itself. NO ftp access, in other words [20:51] zequence: re ease, do you plan to update content in this layout when 16.10 comes? or do we expect the website will change again? [20:51] autumna: I would expect the website to stay pretty much the same at least until next LTS [20:52] One of the main reasons to change this time, is to have the page being mobile friendly, but we might as well improve what else we can while doing it [20:53] *nods* yeah to me it seems there can be some use to making a template page, I mean what sakrecoer created here looks pretty modern and can be reused even by other groups if we created something that makes it possible. [20:53] the con is that I am not sure how difficult or easy it would be to create a template like that, I mean it is possible it isn't super complicated just.. I never did PHP development in WP. [20:54] also there IS a third option [20:54] that we just plug everything in now, to get things ready for thursday [20:55] then calmly make it into a custom page template later. ;D [20:55] autumna: Oh, but thursday is not the goal. We don't have time to meet that however we do it [20:55] but if as soon as possible after thursday is the goal [20:56] Sure. I mean, it shouldn't have to take longer than needed, so we can spend time on other things too. [20:56] i like the 3rd idea... :) but it would imply a blogpost for feature tour.. [20:56] If it happens to be next week or two months from now, I think is irrelevant [20:56] sakrecoer we probably at least will need to create a custom div style and make it 100% to put the whole thing in there [20:56] sakrecoer: Not a blog post. A page. Its' different [20:57] I think.. or as knome recommended, to have a different body type [20:57] the good thing about updating tge layout of website later is that we have a good reason to poke everyone on social media [20:57] so either way that is happening [20:57] There are some limitations as to what you can do in html from inside WP [20:57] *nods*. I think we can pull it off with the current layout [20:58] actually.. wait how do we create a custom page type? [20:58] ok, i thougt the onky diff between blogpost and page is that blogposts show up in the blogroll... [20:59] actually [20:59] I wonder if we can do it without it being a custom page, but just a page [20:59] sakrecoer: The editing between a page or post is no different, but how they are organized is [20:59] * autumna goes to try [21:00] autumna: We can't, if we want images to have full width, while text has adaptive width [21:00] There's no way to link the html from the page to a custom css. That's why we need a custom page [21:01] I see [21:01] There are plugins that allow you to create custom pages, and I suppose they create custom html elements, but I wouldn't want to mess too much with that [21:01] Let's sort out the elements we want, and see how we can best implement them [21:01] again, you only need a custom page template [21:02] knome: How do we do custom backgrounds for different divs in the content? [21:02] ..with a custom page template [21:02] you'll still need to control that separately [21:03] the template would allow you to have full-width content [21:03] But, let's focus on what we want to customize first, ok? [21:03] one option is to load the different "modules" as autumna described above, but i think that's a bit hacky [21:04] and my guess is that ultimately, you end up wanting to change more than you can with that kind of template and thus requiring code updates via IS [21:05] i imagine you ideally want to change the feature tour in a major way only every 2 years with a new LTS [21:05] it's not so bad to have to ask IS for updates once in two years [21:06] Yeah, if we only update certain pages that often, it would be no problem [21:06] Even once every 6 months is ok [21:06] indeed [21:06] in reality, i request for updates from IS to the xubuntu website maybe once a month or two [21:07] they are even really responsive as we track the code in bzr and keep the changes in relatively small batches [21:07] and they don't really need to do code review for CSS [21:07] but if you had a PHP template you needed to update... yeah, it would likely take longer [21:08] autumna: sakrecoer: The bottom of the feature page has bullets for things we want to customize. Please add new bullets if you think of any https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial#Things_we_want_to_be_able_to_do_in_our_custom_pages: [21:16] it does look like we need to be able to either layer divs on top of each other, or have a custom div type that we can put background in yes, but also style, margins etc.. again I might be stating the obvious. [21:17] (is anybody else getting 500s trying to login?) [21:19] autumna: Yes, that would be the technical solution side of it. I don't have a clear idea myself how to best do it, but some sort of custom divs will be needed [21:20] If using the WP page editor, the question is how we can do stuff like full width images from there. And, my first thought is adding a class to a html tag in the html editor [21:20] i'm worrying that you are overthinking it and that it'll end up being really wonky anyway [21:21] knome: If we do that, maybe you can help straighten us out once we know more exactly how we want to do things :) [21:21] let's see [21:22] i want to help, but if it's something completely custom, then i don't know if it's sensible for me to put a lot of work into it [21:23] No, and I wouldn't want to do that either myself [21:23] ok question. [21:23] will the backgrounds change? [21:23] autumna: Which backgrounds? [21:24] the backgrounds of the feature tour. unless we plan to use this custom page style for something else as well? [21:24] the feature tour sakrecoer is more of a mockup, where he used existing art [21:24] But, I say we keep what works [21:24] I know but the point is, there is 4 categories. intro, audio software, video software and graphic software [21:25] are we likely to add or remove categories from the page? [21:25] Nope [21:25] then what we basically need is 4 content areas [21:25] autumna: I was able to login to the wiki just now. Took a little while though [21:25] *tries again* [21:28] if we can have 4 content areas to edit ( a normal page just has one) then we are fine. it is also hacky but.. at least it doesn't go into plugin territory like the individual pages idea. the other option I can really think is the individual modules thing which is more like a modified blog really which is.. complicated [21:34] i think i'd better step back from here, not much i can do to help with wordspress except feeding back on results.. but if i had to do it myself, i'd host the feature tour in html in a subdomain pointing to some github pages,veffectively allowing us any shape or form without having to bother RT.. [21:35] i'l focus on the content instead :) texts and those icons [21:35] sakrecoer: We might customization on other pages as well, and be able to change them at any time [21:35] We can't have the whole site as subdomains [21:35] Particularly if we decide to have the feature tour as the front page [21:36] let me see if there is a plugin we can use, that will have the same result [21:36] makes sense... what would canonical think of us having the hole site on github? [21:37] There's still the option of having totally custom pages, not editable from WP, but without subdomains [21:37] Just need a little bit of php to work that out [21:37] But, nothing major [21:38] * zequence not knowing exactly how, but will find out [21:40] ok :) [21:40] or we could go into a different direction.. [21:40] https://wordpress.org/plugins/featured-pages-customizer/ and use something like this [21:40] *brainstorms* [21:41] shoot just shoot autumna [21:41] :) [21:43] autumna: You can always install them on your staging site and try to reproduce something similar to what sakrecoer did [21:43] *nods* [21:43] I might do that [21:43] Just as proof of concept [21:53] ok I think I found something [21:54] http://getonepager.com/ trying this now will report findings ;D [22:02] Seems respins are imminent, though will take some time to complete [22:02] So, tomorrow is ISO testing day [22:24] yay [22:29] cross fingers - here it comes [22:30] respins started [22:32] \o/ [23:04] zequence: sakrecoer ok this is not remotely done but: http://autumna.zequence.net/feature-tour just to give an idea of what we can do with a plugin. The default options are a bit limiting but it seems enough to get things done?