[00:30] <OvenWerks> krytarik: I would think so, but it is not daily right now, so the question becomes when :)
[00:57] <krytarik> OvenWerks: I guess if it didn't happen by morning UTC, we should have another run at it ourselves. :P
[05:51] <flocculant> something awry with your build - log says it built 9/10 hours ago - tracker says it's rebuilding
[05:52] <flocculant> as far as rebuilds go - if there's no-one about from your team to trigger it - I'm pretty sure I have perm to do so
[07:58] <zequence> Our ship seed may have caused it. Both cjwatson and infinity were poiking in our seeds yesterday
[08:01] <cfhowlett> that sounds ... shady ...
[08:04] <zequence> cfhowlett: They were fixing our ISO build problem
[08:05] <zequence> infinty is the Ubuntu release manager and cjwatson is one of the original authors of a lot of stuff in the infrastructure
[08:05] <zequence> ..or at least maintainer, if not author. Think he did ubiquity.
[08:06] <zequence> Anyway, we are in safe hands :)
[08:18] <zequence> flocculant: How do you trigger it, if not from the qa page?
[09:22] <cub> Anyone know if the iso will be built today?
[09:28] <zequence> cub: Hopefully it will build :)
[09:33] <zequence> cub: I'm poking people about it now. We can usually do rebuilds ourselves, but the qa site has hung after yesterdays failure
[09:33] <cub> Looking at the time stamps on previous builds it seems it won't be until late afternoon/evening Swedish time
[09:34] <cub> Aha or we can trigger a build at other times?
[09:34] <zequence> Yes, members of ubuntustudio-release have access to those controls at iso.qa.ubuntu.com
[09:34] <cub> I was hoping to run an installation in the background while doing mindnumbing excel spreadsheet work
[09:36] <zequence> Wonder what actually caused the build failure though. Not because of any change we did. But, apparently our seeds included some old stuff that is not used anymore
[09:36] <zequence> I still have much to learn in that area myself
[14:13] <autumna> zequence: about the website code, do we have a coding style we are following or just writing for now? 
[14:15] <zequence> autumna: Nope. I'm a beginner css and php hacker myself, and just try to follow the common standards
[14:15] <zequence> actually, need to remove some stuff that I realized we don't need anymore from functions.php
[14:16] <autumna> awesome ok. 
[14:36] <zequence> sakrecoer: autumna: The feature definition page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial
[14:37] <zequence> Make additions or suggest changes
[14:38] <sakrecoer> nice zequence! Tahnks! also, great to have you in the webteam autumna :)
[14:41] <autumna> nice to be here sakrecoer :) I'll poke at the css a bit later. (if I can figure out git in time) 
[14:43] <sakrecoer> :) autumna: to jsut clone it all you need to do is: clone git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-website
[14:43] <sakrecoer> (i'm no way an epxert, but zequence pasted that command in OT
[14:45] <autumna> I know. will probably also need a xampp or something similar to view the pages through
[14:47] <zequence> autumna: I can give you your own WP installation if you want. I have loads of space. Just one click away
[14:48] <autumna> I might ask for it if I end up doing something more serious than poking at color scheme
[14:48] <zequence> alright
[14:48] <autumna> but I should really be good and learn to how to work with a proper workflow, instead of my usual habit of SSHing and changing things on spot
[14:49] <zequence> yeah, shouldn't we all learn that
[14:49] <zequence> The blueprints page https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/website-topic-x
[14:49] <sakrecoer> zequence: "We are planning to update the website look and content for the release of 16.04." ehm... that would be this thursday right?
[14:49] <zequence> sakrecoer: Well, let's not be too pedantic about dates, shall we?
[14:50] <sakrecoer> hehe ok :)
[14:50] <zequence> I should have said around the release of 16.04
[14:50]  * sakrecoer puts an icecube under my shirt.
[14:50] <zequence> The blueprints are very simple. You can add tasks there, if they correspond with the feature definition
[14:51] <autumna> UNLESS you want to compare 2 designs side by side, in which case, give me my own stage away and I'll be happily lazy *snort*
[14:51] <zequence> Also, if you want to take on a task, just change [ubuntustudio-website] into your own LP nick, and TODO into INPROGRESS
[14:51] <zequence> autumna: sure
[14:52] <zequence> sakrecoer: So, this is the basics of how we should have done all the work this cycle - feature definitions -> blueprints -> code
[14:53] <sakrecoer> :)
[14:57] <zequence> Feature definitions can be worked on for a good while during the initial part of the cycle, and that is translated into a blueprint.
[14:57] <zequence> Finally, the person responsible checks the blueprint for sanity, and marks it ready and approved
[14:57] <zequence> Then, everyone just follows the blueprint
[14:58] <zequence> Whenever you need changes to the blueprints - if it conflicts or changes something, it needs to be discussed first, and again, the person responsible needs to approve
[14:58] <zequence> This way we all know which way we are heading and people can work independently during the cycle
[14:59] <zequence> The person who approves can be either a team lead, or the project lead
[15:00] <zequence> Feature Definition Freeze means planning stops, and blueprints are cemented
[15:00] <zequence> But, we only follow that, if we want to. If we really want to be serious, we add the blueprints to the Ubuntu project, not to the UBuntu Studio one
[15:01] <zequence> We're such a small team usually, that the organization of blueprints usually is just work for nothing, as only one or two people are using them
[15:01] <zequence> Let's hope things are different the following two years
[15:01] <sakrecoer> hmm... got a mail that i'm subsrcribed to the blueprint, but LP says i'm not... needs time to cron?
[15:02] <sakrecoer> also i fail to understand how the dependency diagram is established
[15:02] <zequence> sakrecoer: If you're in the core team, you are subscribed to all sub teams
[15:02] <sakrecoer> ok :)
[15:02] <zequence> sakrecoer: If you check the bottom of the page, you see the link "add dependencu"
[15:02] <sakrecoer> "established" is the wrong word...
[15:02] <zequence> If you add a dependency to a blueprint, the dependency appears above that blueprint
[15:03] <zequence> And, you can add as many as you want. I've just simply put all blueprints as dependencies to the main topic blueprint
[15:03] <zequence> Actually, this blueprint is supposed to just be a topic, originally, so I should renambe it
[15:03] <sakrecoer> ok, i'm starting to get it... i think :)
[15:04] <zequence> But, doesn't matter. It's the last blueprint for X. You can create your own thing for next release
[15:04] <zequence> Rosco2: Hi. We seem to have problems getting a new build
[15:05] <Rosco2> Just switched on to see if the build failure was still there
[15:05] <zequence> Rosco2: Can't even get a comment in the release channel as to why, but I'm not hounding people
[15:05] <zequence> seeds were changed, but I'm unsure if that is a fix
[15:05] <Rosco2> Yeah - I saw the changes
[15:05] <Rosco2> Wasn't sure it it was a fix - or the failure
[15:06] <Rosco2> It was only after those changes that the build failed
[15:07] <zequence> Really?
[15:07] <zequence> Ah, maybe only the first change did that
[15:08] <zequence> ..and the second one fixed it probably
[15:09] <Rosco2> I am not sure about the order of things
[15:09] <Rosco2> I was quickly scanning the emails this morning before I went off to work
[15:09] <Rosco2> Have we tried a rebuild recently?
[15:10] <zequence> Rosco2: both me and flocculant have asked about it on -release
[15:11] <zequence> Rosco2: You can give it a try, if you want :)
[15:11] <Rosco2> Just logging into the tracker now
[15:13] <zequence> Rosco2: I've tried to rebuild from there a couple of times, but it seems to have stuck
[15:16] <Rosco2> OK - I can see it still says rebuilding
[15:17] <zequence> Yep
[15:17] <Rosco2> I am not expecting that if I click on the same thing that I will have a different result :-)
[15:18] <zequence> I already tried canceling the build request as well. Nothing
[15:21] <Rosco2> Hmmm. 5:58 PM yesterday seeds changed by infinity. Build failed email 9:55 PM. Colin changed seeds 12:24 AM today
[15:23] <Rosco2> just saw stgrabers response on the release channel
[15:25] <zequence> Rosco2: Yep. hopefully infinity will work it out
[15:27] <Rosco2> Build seemed to crash after trying to fetch our seeds branch
[15:27] <Rosco2> Just did a bzr pull and it worked here
[15:28] <Rosco2> And I have one more revision than the log of the build failure
[15:59] <zequence> Rosco2: There are always a couple of seed pulls that don't work
[15:59] <zequence> Rosco2: But, I'm sure dropping our ship seed, when still keeping it in STRUCTURE was a bad idea
[16:42] <Rosco2> zequence: yeah - but the log didn't seem to get that far
[16:42] <Rosco2> It seemed to crash and stop
[16:43] <Rosco2> Anyway, I can still do some dist-upgrade tests while I wait
[17:27] <sakrecoer> bug #1572249
[18:49] <zequence> Judging from the communication in -release, I would say there will respins in a couple of hours
[18:49] <OvenWerks> waiting :)
[18:50] <Rosco2> My upgrade from Trusty to Xenial still fails
[18:50] <zequence> Rosco2: I've never trusted those anyway
[18:50] <zequence> Rosco2: But, what is causing it?
[18:51] <zequence> If it's a change in one of our packages, we should probably take a look at that
[18:52] <Rosco2> bug #1572262
[18:52] <Rosco2> apt log shows lots of broken packages, but I haven't studied it yet
[18:55] <zequence> That's a lot of packages. I'm happy to stay out of that one.
[18:57] <zequence> Doesn't seem very Ubuntu Studio specific either
[19:00] <OvenWerks> Rosco2: system service stuff? session startup? upstart to systemd maybe?
[19:01] <Rosco2> I nearly marked another bug report as duplicate
[19:01] <Rosco2> He wasn't on Studio
[19:04] <Rosco2> OvenWerks: I can see many old tricky transitions in there that affected most of the archive
[19:05] <Rosco2> Gnome guys report that machine doesn't start after the upgrade
[19:05] <Rosco2> O don't get that far :-)
[19:08] <OvenWerks> Rosco2: The other problem for me is that my 14.04 is not in any way stock. I do development work on it too. so any upgrade script that handles only the applications/utilities on the ISO is likely to fail.
[19:10] <Rosco2> I am glad now that I followed every release since then
[19:10] <OvenWerks> I normally reinstall and link in the folders on my old home. I end up reinstalling all the dev files etc.
[19:11] <OvenWerks> upgrade is much more important with my server though.
[19:12] <OvenWerks> (server is both upgrading and going from 32->64 bit :P
[19:14] <Rosco2> Losing my home directory on the Music Studio may not be a bad idea
[19:14] <Rosco2> There is some horrible music created on there
[19:14] <Rosco2> :-)
[20:03] <autumna> zequence: http://autumna.zequence.net/ you probably already know this, but you can do quite a bit with css. 
[20:18] <knome> autumna, instead of changing some of the basic structures of the theme, why don't you focus on how you would make a feature tour work with the theme?
[20:19] <autumna> oh, I think sakrecoer is working on the feature tour? 
[20:19] <knome> i don't know
[20:20] <knome> from the original theme author POV, these kind of changes are not really what i'm expecting
[20:20] <autumna> the too much fun with css aside, the original background of the header chosen was making the text a bit hard to read, so I was trying to find a way to fix that without using another color. at least that is where I sidetracked ;D
[20:21] <knome> you can change the color from the theme options
[20:21] <knome> you don't need to apply any CSS yourself
[20:22] <sakrecoer> yes, i am, but you are wellcome to help me autumna :) i'm commuting home right now, but i'll push it to some good place. maybe that way i can focus on the text and pictures. of course i will probably need feedback on that too..
[20:22] <autumna> yeah but I couldn't find a way to make it transparent, which was what I was trying to do (originally)
[20:23] <knome> why would you need to make it transparent?
[20:23] <autumna> sakrecoer just let me know which plugin you are using if you are using one, but yeah seeing the content would make it easier
[20:23] <autumna> to change the color without changing the color? 
[20:23] <knome> there is nothing in the background that would make the color change anyway
[20:23] <sakrecoer> autumna: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/tour/
[20:23] <sakrecoer> no plugin, plain html...
[20:24] <autumna> there is the gray color. 
[20:24] <autumna> and yes, if we did a flat color, I would eventually just get the midway color and use that, rather than using transparency
[20:26] <autumna> sakrecoer: i can take this and see if I can take this and stuff it into a plugin
[20:26] <autumna> if you want
[20:27] <sakrecoer> that sounds AWESOME autumna!!!
[20:28] <knome> instead of creating a plugin, why don't you create a page template in the child theme that allows the content area to span the whole window width?
[20:29] <autumna> knome: I was actually just thinking something along the same lines
[20:29] <knome> and on the same breath, that's why i'm here to begin with
[20:29] <knome> i have been asking how you want to do things X, Y, Z but haven't heard anything back
[20:30] <knome> so ideally the page template could even be somehow integrated in the main theme
[20:30] <knome> to make sure everything is done right...
[20:30] <autumna> I was poking into a child template actually that zequence created for us. 
[20:31] <knome> i know
[20:32] <knome> i've talked with him about it
[20:32] <autumna> but if you want it in the main template.. if this is to be a permanent part of the main template... maybe it might be better to have multiple items
[20:32] <autumna> for each "Page" of the feature tour
[20:32] <knome> that's related to content, not code
[20:33] <autumna> how so?
[20:34] <knome> how is it related to code whether you present something in one or five pages?
[20:34] <knome> or if you have one or five menu items for it?
[20:35] <sakrecoer> knome: the layout of the feature tour is different from the blog roll
[20:35] <autumna> no what I meant wasn't having separate pages. 
[20:36] <autumna> I meant the output would look a single page
[20:36] <knome> sakrecoer, ack
[20:36] <knome> sakrecoer, i'm getting that since day one..
[20:36] <autumna> but when updating you would see different items
[20:36] <knome> updating?
[20:38] <autumna> ok so basically, the way sakrecoer made the feature tour is 1 page, with different categories. intro, audio, video, graphics
[20:38] <autumna> each of these groupings have their own background image, title (I assume eventually) and content.
[20:39] <autumna> so in some ways these are all independent "pages". so the template should allow multiple items of this type, but when viewing, view them one under another. 
[20:40] <zequence> knome: We're looking at doing exactly that - custom templates, but I haven't done that yet. Need to see how we can have custom css for those pages
[20:40] <zequence> Like full width for certain elements
[20:40] <autumna> its more modular, so the person doing the content entry doesn't have to play with the divs, and positioning background images, etc, -
[20:41] <autumna> hi zequence :)
[20:41] <zequence> autumna: Hi
[20:41] <knome> zequence, the easiest way is to make sure the new page template has a specific body id/class, then in the css just do body#id/.class element { ... }
[20:41] <zequence> knome: Right
[20:42] <knome> you want to keep the structure of the html as intact as possible so you can benfit all the things the theme is doing for you
[20:45] <zequence> I'm thinking inheritng most of the css for the new body#id, and just change the details that matter
[20:45] <zequence> Since I do this kind of work so seldom, I have a very poor experience in what strategy is the best
[20:46] <zequence> I mean, poor experience, not a poor experience
[20:48] <zequence> It's also a matter of which way is the simplest for us - do we do the whole page in code, or do we make a custom page which we fill with content from WP
[20:49] <zequence> It's a lot simpler to edit using WP, as otherwise we need to have Canonical admins upload our changes
[20:49] <zequence> Meaning, it's easier to do the content from WP, which we have access to. We don't have direct access to the WP installation itself. NO ftp access, in other words
[20:51] <autumna> zequence: re ease, do you plan to update content in this layout when 16.10 comes? or do we expect the website will change again?
[20:51] <zequence> autumna: I would expect the website to stay pretty much the same at least until next LTS
[20:52] <zequence> One of the main reasons to change this time, is to have the page being mobile friendly, but we might as well improve what else we can while doing it
[20:53] <autumna> *nods* yeah to me it seems there can be some use to making a template page, I mean what sakrecoer created here looks pretty modern and can be reused even by other groups if we created something that makes it possible.
[20:53] <autumna> the con is that I am not sure how difficult or easy it would be to create a template like that, I mean it is possible it isn't super complicated just.. I never did PHP development in WP.
[20:54] <autumna> also there IS a third option
[20:54] <autumna> that we just plug everything in now, to get things ready for thursday
[20:55] <autumna> then calmly make it into a custom page template later. ;D
[20:55] <zequence> autumna: Oh, but thursday is not the goal. We don't have time to meet that however we do it
[20:55] <autumna> but if as soon as possible after thursday is the goal
[20:56] <zequence> Sure. I mean, it shouldn't have to take longer than needed, so we can spend time on other things too.
[20:56] <sakrecoer> i like the 3rd idea... :) but it would imply a blogpost for feature tour..
[20:56] <zequence> If it happens to be next week or two months from now, I think is irrelevant
[20:56] <autumna> sakrecoer we probably at least will need to create a custom div style and make it 100% to put the whole thing in there
[20:56] <zequence> sakrecoer: Not a blog post. A page. Its' different
[20:57] <autumna> I think.. or as knome recommended, to have a different body type
[20:57] <sakrecoer> the good thing about updating tge layout of website later is that we have a good reason to poke everyone on social media
[20:57] <autumna> so either way that is happening
[20:57] <zequence> There are some limitations as to what you can do in html from inside WP
[20:57] <autumna> *nods*. I think we can pull it off with the current layout
[20:58] <autumna> actually.. wait how do we create a custom page type?
[20:58] <sakrecoer> ok, i thougt the onky diff between blogpost and page is that blogposts show up in the blogroll...
[20:59] <autumna> actually
[20:59] <autumna> I wonder if we can do it without it being a custom page, but just a page
[20:59] <zequence> sakrecoer: The editing between a page or post is no different, but how they are organized is
[20:59]  * autumna goes to try
[21:00] <zequence> autumna: We can't, if we want images to have full width, while text has adaptive width
[21:00] <zequence> There's no way to link the html from the page to a custom css. That's why we need a custom page
[21:01] <autumna> I see
[21:01] <zequence> There are plugins that allow you to create custom pages, and I suppose they create custom html elements, but I wouldn't want to mess too much with that
[21:01] <zequence> Let's sort out the elements we want, and see how we can best implement them
[21:01] <knome> again, you only need a custom page template
[21:02] <zequence> knome: How do we do custom backgrounds for different divs in the content?
[21:02] <zequence> ..with a custom page template
[21:02] <knome> you'll still need to control that separately
[21:03] <knome> the template would allow you to have full-width content
[21:03] <zequence> But, let's focus on what we want to customize first, ok?
[21:03] <knome> one option is to load the different "modules" as autumna described above, but i think that's a bit hacky
[21:04] <knome> and my guess is that ultimately, you end up wanting to change more than you can with that kind of template and thus requiring code updates via IS
[21:05] <knome> i imagine you ideally want to change the feature tour in a major way only every 2 years with a new LTS
[21:05] <knome> it's not so bad to have to ask IS for updates once in two years
[21:06] <zequence> Yeah, if we only update certain pages that often, it would be no problem
[21:06] <zequence> Even once every 6 months is ok
[21:06] <knome> indeed
[21:06] <knome> in reality, i request for updates from IS to the xubuntu website maybe once a month or two
[21:07] <knome> they are even really responsive as we track the code in bzr and keep the changes in relatively small batches
[21:07] <knome> and they don't really need to do code review for CSS
[21:07] <knome> but if you had a PHP template you needed to update... yeah, it would likely take longer
[21:08] <zequence> autumna: sakrecoer: The bottom of the feature page has bullets for things we want to customize. Please add new bullets if you think of any https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial#Things_we_want_to_be_able_to_do_in_our_custom_pages:
[21:16] <autumna> it does look like we need to be able to either layer divs on top of each other, or have a custom div type that we can put background in yes, but also style, margins etc.. again I might be stating the obvious. 
[21:17] <autumna> (is anybody else getting 500s trying to login?) 
[21:19] <zequence> autumna: Yes, that would be the technical solution side of it. I don't have a clear idea myself how to best do it, but some sort of custom divs will be needed
[21:20] <zequence> If using the WP page editor, the question is how we can do stuff like full width images from there. And, my first thought is adding a class to a html tag in the html editor
[21:20] <knome> i'm worrying that you are overthinking it and that it'll end up being really wonky anyway
[21:21] <zequence> knome: If we do that, maybe you can help straighten us out once we know more exactly how we want to do things :)
[21:21] <knome> let's see
[21:22] <knome> i want to help, but if it's something completely custom, then i don't know if it's sensible for me to put a lot of work into it
[21:23] <zequence> No, and I wouldn't want to do that either myself
[21:23] <autumna> ok question. 
[21:23] <autumna> will the backgrounds change?
[21:23] <zequence> autumna: Which backgrounds?
[21:24] <autumna> the backgrounds of the feature tour. unless we plan to use this custom page style for something else as well?
[21:24] <zequence> the feature tour sakrecoer is more of a mockup, where he used existing art
[21:24] <zequence> But, I say we keep what works
[21:24] <autumna> I know but the point is, there is 4 categories. intro, audio software, video software and graphic software
[21:25] <autumna> are we likely to add or remove categories from the page?
[21:25] <zequence> Nope
[21:25] <autumna> then what we basically need is 4 content areas
[21:25] <zequence> autumna: I was able to login to the wiki just now. Took a little while though
[21:25] <autumna> *tries again*
[21:28] <autumna> if we can have 4 content areas to edit ( a normal page just has one) then we are fine. it is also hacky but.. at least it doesn't go into plugin territory like the individual pages idea. the other option I can really think is the individual modules thing which is more like a modified blog really which is.. complicated
[21:34] <sakrecoer> i think i'd better step back from here, not much i can do to help with wordspress except feeding back on results.. but if i had to do it myself, i'd host the feature tour in html in a subdomain pointing to some github pages,veffectively allowing us any shape or form without having to bother RT..
[21:35] <sakrecoer> i'l focus on the content instead :) texts and those icons
[21:35] <zequence> sakrecoer: We might customization on other pages as well, and be able to change them at any time
[21:35] <zequence> We can't have the whole site as subdomains
[21:35] <zequence> Particularly if we decide to have the feature tour as the front page
[21:36] <autumna> let me see if there is a plugin we can use, that will have the same result
[21:36] <sakrecoer> makes sense... what would canonical think of us having the hole site on github?
[21:37] <zequence> There's still the option of having totally custom pages, not editable from WP, but without subdomains
[21:37] <zequence> Just need a little bit of php to work that out
[21:37] <zequence> But, nothing major
[21:38]  * zequence not knowing exactly how, but will find out
[21:40] <sakrecoer> ok :)
[21:40] <autumna> or we could go into a different direction..
[21:40] <autumna> https://wordpress.org/plugins/featured-pages-customizer/ and use something like this
[21:40] <autumna> *brainstorms*
[21:41] <sakrecoer> shoot just shoot autumna 
[21:41] <sakrecoer> :)
[21:43] <zequence> autumna: You can always install them on your staging site and try to reproduce something similar to what sakrecoer did
[21:43] <autumna> *nods*
[21:43] <autumna> I might do that
[21:43] <zequence> Just as proof of concept
[21:53] <autumna> ok I think I found something 
[21:54] <autumna> http://getonepager.com/ trying this now will report findings ;D
[22:02] <zequence> Seems respins are imminent, though will take some time to complete
[22:02] <zequence> So, tomorrow is ISO testing day
[22:24] <autumna> yay
[22:29] <Rosco2> cross fingers - here it comes
[22:30] <Rosco2> respins started
[22:32] <sakrecoer> \o/
[23:04] <autumna> zequence: sakrecoer ok this is not remotely done but: http://autumna.zequence.net/feature-tour just to give an idea of what we can do with a plugin. The default options are a bit limiting but it seems enough to get things done?