[00:07] <tsimonq2> heheh popey :)
[00:08] <tsimonq2> jcastro: yeah my password has really special characters so I think that crashed it
[00:12] <mhall119> popey: jcastro: I'm telling you, we need a re-captcha that has people triage bugs before getting access, then let the spammers figure out how to do it
[00:16] <tsimonq2> heheh
[00:28] <popey> I would not trust these idiots to triage a bug
[00:29] <tsimonq2> hahahahahah true XD
[00:30] <jcastro> "I order to access this wiki you must create a parser to convert moin to mediawiki."
[00:30] <tsimonq2> even better
[00:30] <tsimonq2> because then NOBODY would be on the wiki
[00:30] <tsimonq2> because I tried that once for another project, really hard...
[06:53] <davidcalle> Morning o/
[07:08] <Kilos> hi davidcalle dholbach svij and others
[07:08] <svij> morning all
[07:08] <dholbach> hi Kilos, hey svij
[07:08] <dholbach> marcoceppi, how's the world of juju, layers and django? can we update ubucon-site again?
[14:06] <jcastro> popey: alan.
[14:06] <jcastro> watching apps going into the snappy store is kind of addicting
[14:08] <popey> hah
[14:09] <jcastro> Since 2.0.2 landed all my stuff works
[14:09] <jcastro> well, on this laptop anyway
[14:10] <jcastro> actually, I lie, the clock and calculator don't show up in the dash
[14:11] <popey> dpm: ^  😃
[14:11] <popey> same here
[14:12] <jcastro> you know what the best part is?
[14:12] <jcastro> we can fix it whenever we want
[14:12] <dpm> popey, jcastro, I don't know what's going on, they show up for me :/
[14:12] <jcastro> is there an equivalent of `dpkg -L` for snaps?
[14:13] <popey> find /snap/appname/current
[14:13] <popey> I guess you could mount the squashfs file and look at it, dunno
[14:13] <popey> dpm: you're on 2.0.1 though?
[14:14] <dpm> popey, I'm on 2.0.2 now
[14:15] <popey> hm
[14:17] <jcastro> actually I don't see any snap apps in my dash and they all have .desktop files
[14:17] <popey> jcastro: be interesting to see when number of snaps in the store overtakes number of clicks....
[14:17] <popey> http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph_clicks.png
[14:17] <popey> http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph_snaps.png
[14:17] <popey> especially given many clicks are "just" webapps
[14:17] <popey> which will be unlikely to happen with snaps
[14:18] <popey> snaps are more likely to be "just re-packaged debs" which is _fine_ by me :)
[14:18] <jcastro> I think snaps will be perfect for these electron webapps
[14:18] <popey> it's "just re-packaged debs which someone actually updates"
[14:18] <jcastro> things like slack, etc.
[14:18] <popey> yup
[14:18] <popey> agreed
[14:18] <jcastro> plus, there were a large swath of users who never got to use clicks, myself included
[14:19] <jcastro> not having to buy hw to use it will be nice.
[14:22] <dpm> jcastro, do you have any of these electron webapps in mind?
[14:23] <jcastro> yeah! I have a whole list:
[14:23] <jcastro> https://github.com/sindresorhus/awesome-electron
[14:24] <jcastro> atom, visual studio code,
[14:24] <jcastro> https://github.com/MarshallOfSound/Google-Play-Music-Desktop-Player-UNOFFICIAL-
[14:24] <jcastro> this one is quite awesome ^^^
[14:24] <jcastro> https://www.gitkraken.com/
[14:25] <jcastro> I use that for git, it's quite slick.
[14:25] <jcastro> oh, and simplenote is quite excellent, it was on omgubuntu the other day
[14:26] <dpm> popey, let's add those to our list! :-)
[14:26] <popey> yeah!
[14:27] <popey> and teach jcastro how to make them :)
[14:27]  * dpm high-fives popey :)
[14:28] <popey> the reason I added qtox was because it does secure voice and video chat  😃
[14:28] <popey> it's pretty awesome
[14:28] <popey> need more ways for jcastro to see my face
[14:28] <jcastro> I would like to try to do one
[14:29] <jcastro> popey: log out and back in
[14:29] <jcastro> see #ubuntu-desktop, it's an artifact of the snappy->snapd move without us logging out and back in
[14:29] <jcastro> icons work for me now
[14:30] <dpm> popey, jcastro, oh, also pretty good -> https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes, Qt-based, should be easy to snap
[14:30] <dpm> (famous last words)
[14:30] <jcastro> what is the best way of approaching snapping an electron app?
[14:30] <jcastro> converting the deb or doing it from scratch?
[14:31] <dpm> jcastro, incidentally, I was looking at it yesterday
[14:31] <dpm> disclaimer: I'm not an expert by any means, but I picked sergiusens' brain
[14:31] <jcastro> the nice thing about electron apps is that there's new energy there and they're all mostly cross platform
[14:31] <dpm> I was trying to snap atom
[14:31] <jcastro> but they wrap web services so they kind of need to be snaps because things change on the web so fast
[14:32] <dpm> atom uses a bit of a crazy build setup
[14:32] <dpm> so it's a bit difficult to abstract
[14:32] <jcastro> and nearly all of them just spit out debs that I have to manually update, and that gets old fast
[14:32] <popey> jcastro: thanks
[14:32] <dpm> deb first or upstream build has not a straight answer
[14:33] <dpm> in some cases snappyfying the .deb is a matter of 5 minutes
[14:33] <dpm> in others (i.e. Atom) it's best to do the build
[14:33] <popey> yeah, i have been creating two branches, get the deb working first, then do the upstream source build
[14:33] <dpm> snapcraft has this concept of plugins
[14:33] <popey> because with snap the problem for me has been more getting the thing running more than getting it built
[14:33] <popey> but that's because I chose easily built stuff :)
[14:34] <dpm> yeah, popey's is a good approach, but we've found out it does not always work to create the .deb first
[14:34] <dpm> so I was talking with sergiusens about having an electron plugin for snapcraft that could take care of the build
[14:34] <jcastro> an electron plugin would get us a bunch of apps we've never had before
[14:34] <dpm> however, that assumes that all electron webaps use the same, standardized build setup
[14:34] <jcastro> and are relatively good and exciting
[14:34] <dpm> yeah
[14:35] <dpm> so it might be a good thing to explore
[14:35] <jcastro> https://github.com/mawie81/whatsdesktop
[14:35] <jcastro> I use this, and it's quite good
[14:36] <jcastro> I mean, it's not a "native app" and people will be cynical about it.
[14:36] <jcastro> on the otherhand, whatsapp on ubuntu
[14:36] <dpm> jcastro, I actually use the whatsapp webapp on the Ubuntu phone, but it requires for me to walk around with an Android phone, as it keeps asking you to reconnect, which is not optimal
[14:37] <dpm> same as using whatsapp on your browser, it asks you to keep the connection alive
[14:37] <dpm> which to me makes it pointless to have on a desktop
[14:38] <jcastro> oh, lame. :/
[14:38] <dpm> yeah, it seems they also mention it on that app's README.md "Note: In order to use this app a WhatsApp Web compatible device is required."
[14:40] <jcastro> there's gotta be one good hero app that is better than xbomb that like makes it obvious that having it as a snap is a good idea
[14:40] <jcastro> I mean, other than the 100 Markdown editors, heh
[14:40] <popey> ffmpeg built from tip of trunk is handy :)
[14:41] <popey> but yes, we need things that people want the latest of, which is usually out of date in ubuntu after a few months
[14:41] <popey> and never gets updated other than in PPAs
[14:41] <popey> have a look and see which are the most popular webupd8 ppas :)
[14:43] <jcastro> let me check the webupd8 atom ppa
[14:43] <jcastro> atom - 1.7.1 -  xenial -   amd64 : 13134
[14:44] <jcastro> how does 13k downloads stack up vs. click dl numbers?
[14:44] <popey> that's quite a decent amount
[14:44] <popey> how did you get that number?
[14:44] <jcastro> I have a script
[14:45] <popey> give
[14:45] <popey> :)
[14:45] <jcastro> https://github.com/marcoceppi/gypsy-danger
[14:45] <popey> ta
[14:45] <jcastro> it's what I use to get the nvidia numbers
[14:45] <jcastro> the only caveat is it's cumulative
[14:46] <jcastro> so if version 1.0 has 100 downloads, and version 2.0 has 100 downloads it just means 100 people upgraded ... probably
[14:47] <jcastro> so 13,134 downloads of atom 1.7.1 happened, but those could be upgrades, and multilple installs, etc.
[14:47] <jcastro> tldr, use it as an indicator more than actual science
[14:48] <popey> sure
[14:49] <popey> thanks, very helpful
[14:49] <jcastro> oh man, youtube-dl would be a good one
[14:50] <popey> its done
[14:50] <popey> davidcalle did it
[14:50] <jcastro> oh!
[14:50] <jcastro> not in the store yet it seems
[14:50] <davidcalle> jcastro: it even works!
[14:50] <popey> Unfathomable!
[14:51] <davidcalle> jcastro: generate the snap yourself! ;)
[14:51] <davidcalle> I still need to get around the new store workflow, but yeah, next step would be to publish it
[14:52] <jcastro> https://github.com/unindented/electron-installer-debian
[14:52] <dpm> jcastro, check this out, it's even one of our examples -> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/desktop/examples/#snap-ubuntu :)
[14:52] <jcastro> so they have different ones, one for RH systems, one for windows
[14:52] <jcastro> electron-installer-snap so people can just consume it and then publish on their own would be a good long term thing
[14:53] <svij> dpm: that was a subtle way to say RTFM to jcastro ^^
[14:53] <jcastro> heh
[14:53] <jcastro> In my defense, none of this stuff worked for me until yesterday
[14:54] <jcastro> so I haven't been digging at all
[14:54] <dpm> svij, well, jcastro is correct in that not all was working until yesterday, which is when we published the docs as well :)
[14:54] <svij> good excuse. :)
[14:54] <dpm> and we've not widely publicised it for that reason too :)
[14:55] <svij> that's why I didn't look into playing with snaps yet ;)
[14:55] <dpm> that's why you haven't seen it on G+ and FB yet, but now you've heard of it, you've got no excuse ;)
[14:55] <svij> :D
[14:55] <jcastro> it's totally more motivational when you see the store yesterday, and then wake up this morning and there are 2 new apps
[14:55] <jcastro> I can literally be excited about apps every day instead of every 6 months
[14:56]  * svij has a todo list item to snappyfy his todo list manager…
[14:59] <jcastro> ok and for launchpad PPAs
[14:59] <jcastro> I see there's snap features in launchpad
[14:59] <jcastro> but is it as simple as a bunch of people just clicking a button?
[15:00] <dpm> jcastro, check out https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/desktop/get-started/#automating-snap-builds for the 30 seconds summary
[15:00] <jcastro> ta
[15:00] <jcastro> I should probably read all of this and stop wasting your time, heh
[15:01] <dpm> np, we spent quite a lot of time writing the docs, so it's actually rewarding to just have to hand over the links ;)
[15:01] <jcastro> oh so it builds but it appears it doesn't autopublish
[15:01] <dpm> jcastro, not yet, but it's on the LP roadmap IIRC. However, you can drive it with the LP API
[15:02] <dpm> ok, team call
[15:02] <jcastro> nod
[15:02] <jcastro> it'd be interesting to autopublish in the devel channel, but then the developer can bless builds for the stable release
[16:23]  * davidcalle eods. Have a nice evening o/
[16:25] <Kilos> you too davidcalle
[16:28] <davidcalle> Thanks Kilos :)
[16:28] <Kilos> :D
[16:40] <svij> https://plus.google.com/+Ubuntu/posts/fHX7NqQ2gQ1 the test of this posting is misleading…
[16:45] <dpm> indeed, I've just got into our G+ page and fixed it, thanks svij for the heads up
[16:47] <svij> dpm: thanks!
[16:57] <jcastro> jose: you did the askubuntu bot on #juju didn't you?
[16:58] <jose> what?
[16:58] <jose> askubuntu bot?
[16:59] <jcastro> yeah, when someone asks a question it puts it in the irc channel
[16:59] <jcastro> did you set that up? I guess not, heh
[17:01] <jose> hehehe nope, not me
[17:02] <jose> I have the ubuntuonair bot
[19:47] <pleia2> jcastro: any idea how long mitaka is supported on 14.04?
[19:49] <jcastro> pretty sure it's going to be the same way as we did for 14.04 and it's openstack release, lemme dig around
[19:51] <pleia2> thank you :)
[19:51] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/CloudArchive
[19:51] <jcastro> yeah, looks like it's the same
[19:51] <pleia2> oh, and I meant 14.04 specifically
[19:51] <pleia2> not 16.04
[19:51] <pleia2> 14.05 w/ cloud archive to use mitaka
[19:51] <pleia2> 14.04
[19:52] <jcastro> sudo add-apt-repository cloud-archive:mitaka
[19:52] <jcastro> according to that page
[19:52] <jcastro> I didn't realize that was working until just now
[19:52] <pleia2> "When 16.04's OpenStack version is released that will be added to the Cloud Archive with support for 3 years, i.e. until the end of the Ubuntu 14.04 LTS lifecycle."
[19:52] <pleia2> sweet
[19:52] <pleia2> so mitaka even on 14.04 will last 3 years, in theory
[19:54] <pleia2> and yeah, I've totally been using mitaka on 14.04 for the past month with the cloud archive, I just wasn't sure if it would be 18 months or 3 years
[19:54] <jcastro> so I guess theoretically you can skip an LTS and still never leave support
[19:55] <pleia2> the final manuscript for my book is due may 9th, there is no way I'm making the move to systemd and 16.04 at this point
[19:55] <pleia2> a little sad that it's going to be shipped with 14.04, but c'est la vie
[19:55] <pleia2> it's this or the book is never going to end
[19:55] <pleia2> always one more thing...
[19:56] <jcastro> heh
[19:56] <jcastro> 14.04 with the latest hwe kernel is still an awesome release
[19:56] <pleia2> yeah, it really is
[19:59] <pleia2> jcastro: do you get to visit austin next week?
[19:59] <jcastro> not I. :-/
[19:59] <jcastro> lemme see who's going
[19:59] <pleia2> sad
[20:00] <pleia2> maybe for the best, apparently there is flooding and it'll be rainy ;)
[20:01] <jcastro> yeah, I like austin too
[21:35] <popey> That moment when you accidentally click "allow" on a spammer then furiously click back and deactivate!
[21:36] <knome> makes for a whole week of excersize.
[21:36] <knome> or however it's spelled, too hard