[00:11] <OvenWerks> downloading iso.
[00:30] <zequence> autumna: Not bad. Though, it would be nice to be able to include the main menu bar in that.
[00:30] <zequence> Couldn't keep away. Had to try the ISO
[00:31] <autumna> hahah
[00:31] <autumna> I am still awake
[00:31] <autumna> and I actually found another addon that while doesn't do wider pages, is a lot better
[00:31] <autumna> (and less hacky)
[00:31] <autumna> http://autumna.zequence.net/?page_id=16&forge_builder
[00:31] <autumna> err
[00:31] <autumna> that is the wrong link
[00:31] <autumna> http://autumna.zequence.net/?page_id=16
[00:34] <zequence> autumna: Did you publish the page yet?
[00:35] <autumna> I thought I did
[00:35] <autumna> I am going to disable the other plugin and try again, I think they might be breaking each other
[00:37] <autumna> try again
[00:37] <autumna> the previous plugin was breaking this one
[00:38] <autumna> oh god ok 
[00:38] <autumna> I think there is a cautionary tale somewhere here about not doing things when one should be sleeping: http://autumna.zequence.net/feature-tour-2/
[00:38] <autumna> 3rd time is the charm (I hope)
[00:42] <zequence> autumna: Ok, but this one is only customized within the content area
[00:42] <autumna> yeah.... but.. it allows you to put css classes into things. (well theorically it also allows you to put page wide css, but that is not working)
[00:42] <zequence> I think it would be great if we could keep the panel, but everything below was customizable. That for me would be the ultimate solution
[00:43] <zequence> ok
[00:43] <autumna> one thing we CAN do is that
[00:43] <autumna> we can have a customized template and this (if all else fails)
[00:43] <autumna> I doubt that will work through actually
[00:48] <autumna> *facepalm*
[00:50] <zequence> There are more choices now, so that's good
[01:05] <autumna> zequence: I think, from their documentation, that if we create a simple theme with 100% width of page content, we can use it, to modify the second plugin
[01:05] <autumna> http://cpothemes.com/docs/customize-page-templates
[01:05] <autumna> theme -> template
[05:34] <cub> Do we get to name the isos ourselves? As I often download several different distros during testing and ubuntu studio is called "xenial-dvd-amd64.iso" it doesn't stand out as "ubuntu-studio"
[05:36] <cub> Hmm the others are not better either. Most is called xenial-desktop without really specifying which flavour it is
[05:40] <krytarik> cub: Yup, that's the fun part of dealing with the dailies. :P
[05:42] <cub> hehe
[05:42] <cub> but aren't they named by a script?
[05:42] <cub> not that it is a major issue but if the solution is easy
[05:43] <cub> at least we can differentiate Ubuntu Studio as it seems to be the only one named -dvd- compared to -desktop- or -server- :P
[05:45] <krytarik> Only current one anyway, yes - Edubuntu was too.
[05:45] <krytarik> And I'd not think "easy" would cut it at that.
[06:37] <flocculant> cub: can't say that's ever caused me an issue - I end up with dailies from most flavours at some point - I use something called folders to keep them seperate :D
[06:37] <flocculant> zequence: thanks for the thanks :)
[07:59] <cub> Worked like charm to choose "Install Ubuntu Studio" directly now. 
[08:54] <sakrecoer> autumna: nice :) i think i prefere knome's head menu coloring, more accurate on a "corporateID" level. i look forwad to see it with full width, the frameing is what i am hopeing to escape really. not only because of taste, but also conceptualy: we are shipping tools for creatives, we should not frame creativity :)
[08:55] <sakrecoer> the paragraph text-size and line-height is perfect! easy on the eye and good size
[08:56] <sakrecoer> the woodmark, probably we should have a picture. the letter-spacing is off and i think that spacing may differ from browser to browser
[08:57] <sakrecoer> This said, to have to menu on that page is probably an excellent thing.
[08:58] <sakrecoer> oh, and the frameing thing, i'm just talking about the feature tour. the rest of pages should defenitly be framed. we want the about and the news to be reassuring
[09:04] <sakrecoer> good news with the iso
[10:33] <autumna> sakrecoer: that was me getting a bit sidetracked :) I'll try something more subtle later
[10:34] <knome> autumna, i still don't understand why you need to change the theme, even subtly
[10:36] <autumna> knome sakrecoer and zequence said that they want to keep the exact same shade of blue, but blue on white is a bit hard to read. I am looking to see if there is a way to use that color but have more contrast behind text. 
[10:36] <autumna> and morning
[10:39] <autumna> ok actually let me switch the header back for now so that we can see what we are dealing with as overall feature tour layout
[10:39] <knome> if you apply a shade, it's not the same blue anyway either, right?
[10:40] <knome> if you wanted to improve legibility, i would rather try some text-shadow
[10:43] <autumna> knome: I find it easier to change transparency to find that color, rather than copy the colors to gimp, change opacity there, get the combined color and copy it there each time. if we did a flat color I never intended to keep transparency on. :)
[10:43] <autumna> but text shadow is a great idea
[10:44] <autumna> let me try that
[11:02] <autumna> http://autumna.zequence.net/
[11:03] <autumna> ok text-shadow it is unless anyone has an objection
[11:10] <sakrecoer> autumna: shadow looks great!
[11:10] <autumna> :)
[11:10] <sakrecoer> autumna: in an early stage i prefere side tracking going too far.
[11:11] <autumna> thanks to knome for the idea. there :) 
[11:11] <sakrecoer> its easier to come back to a given point
[11:11] <sakrecoer> than to speculate about how it could have been with an extra mile
[11:11] <autumna> sakrecoer: exactly, that is also why I like having my own stage. we can compare and see where we begun more easily
[11:12] <autumna> I am going to try to create a wide template. try being an operative word here.. I THINK I know how to create a custom page. I THINK
[11:17] <sakrecoer> 'keeping it simple' might be usefull complementary sentence to that :) (at least i often need to remind it to myself:D)
[11:33] <zequence> autumna: Huge difference with the text shadow, all though very subtle
[11:33] <autumna> zequence: yes! also... 
[11:34] <autumna> http://autumna.zequence.net/feature-tour-2/ WIP wide page template with the second plugin
[11:37] <zequence> autumna: Alright. There is a problem graphically when mixing dark colors with the grey, so not sure what is the best approach there
[11:38] <zequence> White background solves a lot of problems, but I would hate to give up the idea of a dark theme
[11:38] <autumna> well, for the feature page at least
[11:38] <autumna> I assume that the background will not be seen at all
[11:39] <zequence> If that, then yes, that would work
[11:39] <autumna> I am trying to lose the title area
[11:40] <zequence> Right
[11:40] <autumna> knome mentioned using "body" ID and referring everything inside that way but I am not exactly sure of the syntax for referring that way. 
[11:41] <zequence> I haven't looked into that yet, but would need to be a custom page
[11:42] <zequence> I might not be doing any code for a few days now, so I can't be of much help
[11:42] <autumna> I have a custom page
[11:43] <autumna> I am just not sure of the css syntax. *tries*
[11:46] <zequence> autumna: I suppose a good way is to create a new css for that file, which inherits the other stuff, and just change some of the things
[11:46] <autumna> actually...
[11:47] <autumna> I just did the whole thing inside the same css. this goes into the easier than expected category
[11:47] <autumna> :)
[11:47] <zequence> nice
[11:49] <autumna> http://autumna.zequence.net/feature-tour-2/
[11:50] <autumna> I think (assuming our request for plugin gets accepted) we found our solution
[12:05] <sakrecoer> autumna: \o/ 
[12:05] <sakrecoer> it breaks on mobile.. but we can look into that later.
[12:05] <zequence> sakrecoer: Does it?
[12:06] <zequence> The image doesn't resize
[12:06] <sakrecoer> yeah, 'ubuntustudio' gets out of frame..
[12:06] <zequence> Yep
[12:06] <sakrecoer> and the image yes..
[12:06] <zequence> Need some image css in there, like what is in the community-theme
[12:06] <sakrecoer> just a matter of giving it an @media for smaller windows..
[12:07] <zequence> autumna: So, you did the content from WP. The images and the text?
[12:07] <autumna> yes
[12:07] <zequence> Cool
[12:07] <sakrecoer> you rock autumna \o/
[12:07] <autumna> hey I am not the person who wrote the plugin
[12:07] <autumna> ;)
[12:07] <autumna> just found it that's all
[12:08] <zequence> To find it is almost as great a feat as coding it
[12:08] <autumna> :)
[12:08] <sakrecoer> no but your the person who put down the effort
[12:08] <autumna> :)
[12:09] <sakrecoer> i hope to have the texts and icons finished this afternoon.. 
[12:09] <autumna> I need to eat some lunch, ut after that I'll try to see if I can get the same setup happening on the main stage
[12:09] <autumna> that way we can all work on it
[12:10] <sakrecoer> guten apetit!
[12:10] <autumna> or at least you can sakrecoer. :) 
[12:10] <autumna> thanks :D
[12:10] <sakrecoer> i can haz what?
[12:11] <autumna> you can put your feature tour content in, rather than doing 2 jobs
[12:11] <sakrecoer> ok :) thought you wanted me to set that template on the main thing..
[12:12] <autumna> I am going to upload the template to main stage, also to make sure nothing is breaking. because my installation is kind of broken right now
[12:12] <sakrecoer> aight! until then, then :)
[12:13] <cub> I prefer flat design over text-shadow...but I'm a bit late to the party.
[12:14] <autumna> cub I was hoping that it wasn't obvious there was a text shadow there. its just there to improve the readability, but always open to alternative ideas. 
[12:15] <sakrecoer> cub, your not late. if you have better idea on how to keep the color scheme while having contrast, please share :)
[12:15] <cub> No I think it was fine before so. :)
[12:17] <autumna> well I'll go with what everyone agrees with
[12:20] <zequence> I feel like it was an improvement, but perhaps one can try mildening it just a notch.
[12:20] <zequence> But, to me it doesn't seem probably anyone will notice it if not looking for it, as it is now
[12:21] <zequence> Almost like the sensation from looking into a bright light, you get a shadow in place of where the light was
[12:21] <cub> On this computer it's quite noticable, like a Windows 95 bevel button. But on my laptop it might not be visible.
[12:21] <zequence> Ok
[12:21] <zequence> Yeah, screens make a difference
[12:21] <zequence> I should try on one of our nicer screens at home
[12:22] <zequence> Does anyone here have a screen suitable for graphics work, anyway?
[12:22] <cub> Not really. Great monitors at work but not ones professional designer would use
[12:23] <cub> and noone (but me) does design work on a laptop screen.
[12:24] <autumna> errr
[12:24] <autumna> *raises hand*
[12:24] <autumna> actually
[12:24] <autumna> (lets just say cub that you are not the only one)
[12:25] <cub> yup
[12:25] <zequence> Ok. So, cub, your screen wasn't bought from TV Shop then?
[12:25] <zequence> Ah, I misunderstood
[12:25] <cub> Nope it was Webbhallen. :P
[12:26] <cub> Something about the "preferred monitor for [insert CS player here]"
[12:26] <zequence> We have a saying among my friends, that if something is not what it was promised to be, it's TV Shop
[12:26] <cub> ehhe
[12:28]  * autumna needs to now figure out which of these css changes are the ones that needs to be committed. 
[12:29] <cub> I a bit confused about release, I thought it was tomorrow but Twitter seems to agree upon it's only "hours away"
[12:30] <zequence> It should be tomorrow, yes
[12:30] <zequence> I suppose you could say it's only hours away, but so is the end of the universe, if you want to count it in hours
[12:31] <zequence> All releases happen on thursday
[12:31] <zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
[12:31] <cub> that's right
[12:32] <zequence> Maybe something to do with the differing calendars of varying countries
[12:32] <zequence> Just guessing
[12:32] <cub> Where is it Tuhrsday first, Asia right?
[12:33] <zequence> In the middle of the Pacific
[12:33] <zequence> Between Asia and America, quite exactly
[12:34] <zequence> http://www.worldtimezone.com/
[12:35] <zequence> Already thursday in New Zeeland
[12:35] <cub> There you go. So release today. ;)
[12:35] <zequence> But, no you're right. The eastern tip of Asia is correct
[12:37] <zequence> But, actually, it will be released in New Zeeland on friday
[12:38] <zequence> Usually during afternoon, evening our time (17.00-20.00)
[12:38] <zequence> UTC+1, that is
[12:38] <cub> yes every other time it's when it's morning in the US, which is about 1700 CEST
[12:40] <zequence> Ok, time to install on hardware :). Feels pretty solid so far.
[12:40] <cub> I was thinking that as well
[12:56] <zequence> Another gnome-software being released. Haven't looked at other packages, so there's a good chance there will be another respin before tomorrow
[12:57] <cub> oh
[13:09] <autumna> actually somebody installed a plugin to main stage that functions better than the one I found. ;) 
[13:10] <zequence> autumna: That might have been me
[13:11] <zequence> I was trying something out very quickly, but didn't have the time, at the time
[13:11] <autumna> the page editor you found is the one I was looking for actually, but somehow couldn't get through searching
[13:11] <autumna> it is much more stable, and doesn't break menu editing
[13:12] <zequence> One thing that concerns me a little bit is licenses. Haven't checked that at all yet
[13:13] <zequence> Some of the addons are pretty commercial with a free variant
[13:13] <zequence> Thought I'd first just get a feel for what is out there
[13:38] <zequence> Who else has installed on hardware with the latest ISO?
[13:39] <zequence> The only test result yet reported is with VirtualBox
[13:40] <zequence> I can't boot from USB stick
[13:40] <cub> only vbox here as well
[13:40] <zequence> But, it does work on VirtualBox
[13:40] <cub> so far
[13:41] <zequence> Going to change sticks and see if that helps
[13:44] <zequence> Takes a while to make these. This is a usb3 stick though, should be faster
[13:45] <zequence> One hour so far. Two tries on the same stick, so about 30min to create it and try a boot
[13:50] <zequence> If anyone else could test on hardware, that would be really nice
[13:51] <zequence> At least do a live boot
[13:51] <zequence> I'm going to try this other stick, and on two machines. If that fails, I need to create a stick on another machine to absolutely confirm, that either this thing is not booting, or I'm crazy
[13:54] <OvenWerks> live boot on stick works here
[13:55] <OvenWerks> installing to partition... Past all the usual fail points
[13:55] <zequence> OvenWerks: Ok. Just googled on the failure, and seems there are multiple possible causes
[13:55] <zequence> One being just some crappy problems with the filesystem
[13:55] <zequence> So, hopefully this stick will work
[13:56] <zequence> Happy to know it's just me then
[13:57] <zequence> This stick has been through a few boots, so perhaps it's getting old and senile
[13:58] <OvenWerks> zequence: I have trouble with my front of case USB ports, I think because the case is old and the wiring from MB to plug may not be shielded right. I need to get a USB3 hub...
[13:58] <zequence> OvenWerks: I see problems with that a lot, especially when kids are involved
[13:59] <zequence> But, only me is using these usb ports :). Could be they are getting worn, though
[13:59] <autumna> zequence: this one seems to be fully free, but I am not sure they are open source. :/
[14:00] <zequence> autumna: PRetty sure it's all open source - since it's in php :)
[14:01] <zequence> Unless it's possible to compile it - or something else that I don't know about
[14:01] <zequence> Success! Finally!
[14:02] <OvenWerks> \o/
[14:02] <autumna> zequence: heh. point taken. but yeah the one you found doesn't seem to have a pro version? although I haven't checked it in depth
[14:02] <zequence> autumna: That's good to hear
[14:03] <zequence> We don't seem to have a default background when choosing install, instead of trying the live version
[14:03] <zequence> Not the end of the world, but a little bit broken
[14:04] <OvenWerks> reboot
[14:04] <zequence> OvenWerks: You mean, it works for you?
[14:31] <sakrecoer> i see image magick remained in the menu. only one entry this time, but broken too
[14:32] <sakrecoer> phatch too
[14:34] <sakrecoer> zequence: i\m doing a hardware install now
[14:35] <zequence> Seems like the window theming is not working
[14:35] <zequence> I have adwaita theming again
[14:42] <OvenWerks> 64 bit install boots up nice
[14:46] <OvenWerks> I don't remember what theme was there when I booted :)  I changed it to Moheli so window with focus is easily visible and so there is enough border for easy window resize.
[14:46]  * OvenWerks is not suggesting his setup should be default 
[14:47] <zequence> Think it would be/win54
[14:47] <zequence> Oops
[14:54] <sakrecoer> fresh isntall booted fine here. not sure i see what is up with the window theming?
[14:55] <sakrecoer> 64-bit i tried..
[14:56] <sakrecoer> have greybird enabled, was so in the liveISO boot too.. 
[14:58] <zequence> Weird. Why is everything so weird here?
[14:59] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: never tried moheli before. very close to daloa. the nameing suggest its from the same author
[14:59] <sakrecoer> zequence: i dont even have adwaita to chose..
[14:59] <sakrecoer> :D
[14:59] <zequence> Ah, no it's the default
[14:59] <zequence> But, it looks like Adwaita
[15:00] <sakrecoer> what package is settings in ?
[15:00] <sakrecoer> display callibration is broken here...
[15:24] <sakrecoer> intersting, its seems to be "gcm-calibrate" if i can believe what is written in the menu item...
[15:24] <sakrecoer> but ubunt-bug says "The problem cannot be reported: The report belongs to a package that is not installed."
[15:26] <sakrecoer> i can run gcm-calibrate in  cli, but it says "no device was specified" and man is very minimal about it
[15:27] <sakrecoer> he.. actulay the man pages for gcm-calibrate are for gcm-import...
[15:27] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: what does gcm-calibrate do? as in what does it calibrate?
[15:27] <sakrecoer> screen colors
[15:28] <sakrecoer> i never used it tbh, but the icon is in settings, and it doesn't work
[15:28] <sakrecoer> in settings manager it is called "Display Calibration"
[15:28] <sakrecoer> i looked at it before, but i have no profile to use so never used it...
[15:29] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: did you read the tooltip?
[15:29] <sakrecoer> aaah haha...
[15:29]  * sakrecoer hides
[15:29]  * OvenWerks put that tool tip in there
[15:31] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: honestly, I don't think even that would work. We really need someone with a colorimeter to play with it and make it so it would work.
[15:31] <OvenWerks> running gcm-calibrate --help
[15:31] <OvenWerks> (which gives more info the the man page)
[15:32] <OvenWerks> the usage looks like:
[15:32] <OvenWerks> gcm-calibrate [OPTION...] gnome-color-manager calibration tool
[15:32] <OvenWerks> we don't have gnome-color-manager
[15:33] <krytarik> We have.
[15:33]  * OvenWerks instals synaptic
[15:34] <sakrecoer> krytarik: we do? under another name?
[15:34] <OvenWerks> krytarik: we do? typing gnome-<tab> does not show it.
[15:34] <krytarik> Nope, that's part of the package.
[15:35] <sakrecoer> b-b-but? so how do i start it? :p
[15:35] <OvenWerks> Yup, synaptic shows it as installed.
[15:37] <OvenWerks> gcm-calibrate /usr/lib/gnome-color-manager <device>?
[15:38] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: this is meant to be run from gnome-settings
[15:39] <OvenWerks> /usr/lib/gnome-color-manager seems to be a directory
[15:41] <sakrecoer> ok.. i don't really get it, i don't find gnome-settings :D but never mind, its probably not very important right now :) but thank you OvenWerks ! :)
[15:42] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: we don't have gnome-settings, because we do have xfce-settings
[15:43] <sakrecoer> ah :) of course, now i get it. thanks
[15:43] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: in other words we should be looking for another app that doesn't need gnome.
[15:45] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: dispcalgui?
[15:46] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: maybe. i mean, you do need a calibration device in order to create a calibration-profilce (ICC i think it is called). So its probably working, but i don't have a callibration device to try it...
[15:46] <zequence>  Opening Software, it's funny how all of the "Editor's picks" are all already installed :)
[15:46] <zequence> Ah, I haven't turned on the internet yet :)
[15:47] <sakrecoer> chatting from your brainwaves zequence ? :D
[15:47] <zequence> sakrecoer: No, just commenting on the applicaton "Software"
[15:48] <zequence> One, that probably few of us uses
[15:48] <sakrecoer> :) i was reffering to "I haven't turned on the internet yet" :D
[15:48] <zequence> Strictly speaking, I hadn't
[15:49] <OvenWerks> zequence: try using it to install libjack-dev
[15:49] <OvenWerks> see if it warns you that it is removing most of your audio SW
[15:50] <zequence> OvenWerks: Isn't it always going to anyway
[15:50] <zequence> ?
[15:50] <OvenWerks> zequence: To a new user who is trying to build something it could be a disaster.
[15:51] <zequence> Software is doing stuff in the background, somehow, as compared to Ubuntu Software Center
[15:51] <OvenWerks> if the installer doesn't warn you about what it is removing
[15:51] <zequence> OvenWerks: Well, that's in packaging, is it not?
[15:51] <OvenWerks> USC doesn't tell you what it is doing
[15:51] <zequence> It doesn't?
[15:51] <OvenWerks> Just progress line
[15:52] <OvenWerks> zequence: I guess we added libjack-jackd2-dev to the seeds so it shouldn't be a problem.
[15:53] <zequence> Ok, let's find out!
[15:53] <sakrecoer> hmm.. yeah, software is strange... it suddenly changed the layout. i had synaptic as 1st entry in "editor choice".. and *pof* all gone but scribus and a bunch of category buttons
[15:53] <zequence> Ubuntu Software Center always had one major bug - it didn't update apt. If you didn't update a lot, it would not install some packages
[15:54] <OvenWerks> zequence: I guess I didn't use it enough to notice :)
[15:54] <sakrecoer> hehe... pressing the category buttons give me empty screen... it defaults to "featured" but there is nothing featured :D
[15:54] <sakrecoer> ah piding is featured, in "internet"
[15:55] <zequence> Rosco2: Hi. Looking pretty well so far with the latest ISO?
[15:55] <Rosco2> Just looked at the tracker - and yes
[15:56] <Rosco2> Haven't started myself
[15:56] <Rosco2> I left my machines doing an upgrade from Wily & trusty this morning
[15:56] <zequence> Rosco2: I saw some new package uploads before, so could be we have another respin coming though
[15:56] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I would suggest removing gcm-calibrate and adding DisplayCAL (dispcalgui) for next cycle.
[15:56] <Rosco2> Looks like the upgrade issue was fixed
[15:57] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: i take note of that. we should perhaps ask arround a bit before we decide, it would be nice if at least one person with an actual callibration device could feed back on that..
[15:57] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I don't know how well it works with a real colorimeter, but at least it opens :)
[15:58] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: we may as well remove gcm-calibrate anyway. It seems from what I have read so far it is not usable.
[16:00] <zequence> Rosco2: Oh, cool. So, maybe it is viable then? I'll give it a go tonight
[16:00] <sakrecoer> hi Rosco2 ! :)
[16:01] <sakrecoer> i'll give a spin on upgrade later tonight also... until when can we do these tests?
[16:01] <sakrecoer> oh yay \o/ the parole controles are back in the indicator <3
[16:02] <sakrecoer> (gold while blendering:p)
[16:04] <Rosco2> I suppose tomorrow they will want us to mark the tracker as ready
[16:04] <Rosco2> As early as possible
[16:05] <sakrecoer> perfect! gives me time to test ffado later tonight
[16:05] <Rosco2> I will take the afternoon off work
[16:05] <sakrecoer> :) nice
[16:05] <Rosco2> Always nice to work on Ubuntu instead of what my boss wnats :-)
[16:06]  * sakrecoer high5's Rosco2 !
[16:06] <sakrecoer> agreed :D
[16:10] <sakrecoer> i don't understand gnome software... i have pressed the button on the top "available", yet i get nothing but the software i have installed...
[16:10] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: perhaps asking users to test display calibration... or what do you use (with list of packages to try) Not sure where to ask, maybe same places as the call for backdrops?
[16:10] <sakrecoer> oh.. is that what you ment by "not enabled internet" zequence ?
[16:11] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: good idea, could ask on all social networks realy...
[16:12] <cub> I saw that all test for 64 bit was done. I'm downloading i386 to do an HW installation later this evening
[16:12] <OvenWerks> in Software I get Synaptic, notes, HuginBatch, code blocks, Cairo dock, Virtual box and terminator.
[16:13] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: i got those a breif moment first start...
[16:13] <sakrecoer> but they vanished under my eyes..
[16:13] <sakrecoer> don't know how to get them back..
[16:13]  * OvenWerks installs cairo dock
[16:14] <sakrecoer> searching for synaptic gives me no result..
[16:14] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: right, going back from the install page just gives me scribus
[16:15] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: going to system->all just gives what is already installed
[16:17] <zequence> OvenWerks: Coming back to what things you can install with Software - only stuff that has .desktop files, basically - from what I can see
[16:17] <OvenWerks> zequence: makes sense
[16:19] <OvenWerks> sudo apt-get update and then software works again.
[16:20] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: didn't work for me (sudo apt-get update
[16:20] <sakrecoer> wait i did sudp apt update...
[16:20] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: did you exit software first?
[16:20] <zequence> I didn't do that - I just waited a while
[16:20] <sakrecoer> yupp
[16:21] <zequence> Software does an update by itself
[16:21] <sakrecoer> nope, didn't work-..
[16:21] <sakrecoer> a reboot did it..
[16:21] <sakrecoer> but as soon as i leave the first page, i can't find a way back
[16:21] <zequence> Just takes a certain amount of time, I would think
[16:21] <sakrecoer> all i get is software that is already installed
[16:21] <zequence> "All"?
[16:22]  * OvenWerks installs Hardware Lister
[16:22] <sakrecoer> zequence: yeah..
[16:23] <sakrecoer> oh... now i restarted it again but using the "quit" entry from the menu and everything is back...
[16:23] <OvenWerks> harder lister not worth the install
[16:24] <zequence> Software was getting an update today already
[16:25] <zequence> Could be getting more updates after release, quite probably
[16:25] <zequence> or, gnome-software, as the package is called
[16:25] <zequence> I heard the Canonical folks wanted to rename it
[16:25] <zequence> It
[16:26] <zequence> Think it's called "Ubuntu Software" in Unity, and they wanted also to rename the package
[16:26] <zequence> Details...
[16:26] <sakrecoer> the fonts are displaying oddly in software manager.. they have a colored edge like when there is a missmatch of rgb alignment
[16:26] <zequence> Software Manager?
[16:27] <sakrecoer> sorry. gnome software
[16:27] <zequence> Think it's either gnome-software, or "Software" :)
[16:27] <zequence> But, in Ubuntu, it may also be "Ubuntu Software"
[16:28] <zequence> Since everyone seems to be using it now, it should mature and get some nice features and bug fixes along the way
[16:28] <sakrecoer> odd, someone left a great review on phatch in march this year, claiming drag and drop works perfect..
[16:28] <zequence> Such a lier?!
[16:28] <sakrecoer> heheh :D
[16:29] <sakrecoer> well i for one whish i had the same success
[16:29] <zequence> Sorry 
[16:29] <zequence> Liar!?
[16:30] <sakrecoer> all he writes was true, when it worked :D maybe i'm unlucky but i think OvenWerks and Rosco2 tested it too...
[16:31] <zequence> I just like it when things don't match the way it was planned. And, it so often does not!
[16:31] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Dnd of what where?
[16:31] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: PHatCH
[16:32] <sakrecoer> now i have the big eye floating on my screen and i can't remember the name to use for killall :D
[16:32] <sakrecoer> ah, "phatch" :facepalm:
[16:34]  * OvenWerks just added Application Menu to his panel... whisker=fail
[16:34] <zequence> You guys run Ubuntu Studio for 5mins, and it just crashes and burns?
[16:35] <sakrecoer> :D
[16:35] <OvenWerks> no crash and burn.
[16:36] <OvenWerks> whisker cuts off the item descriptions if they are too long. The ones that are long are often that way because there are two entries with the first part the same
[16:39] <sakrecoer> gnome software got weird again
[16:40] <sakrecoer> it doesn't like to be shut down from the window X
[16:41] <OvenWerks> Ya, phatch image inspector doesn't deal with DnD here either any more. It accepts the filename, and clears it's window title, but then goes into wait forever.
[16:41] <OvenWerks> software works ok here, (closed by x, closed by exit)
[16:42] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: i don't think that is what makes it go bananas, but once it got bananas, quiting it from the menu seems to fix it
[16:43] <sakrecoer> it's like it loses contact with internet or something
[16:45] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: that is a possibility.... but inmo shows bad SW design
[16:45] <sakrecoer> yeah... when i go into update, press the litle circular refresh button, then when i go back to "All" the entries dissapear one after the other ...
[16:46] <sakrecoer> yeah... third time i reproduce it now..
[16:47] <sakrecoer> then if i close it with the window button, it wont come back, but closing it with "quit" in menu, fixes it
[16:47] <sakrecoer> i should file a bug repport...
[16:47]  * OvenWerks considers both USC and software bad design anyway...
[16:47] <zequence> Maybe the design idea is sound, but the implementation still needs to be fixed?
[16:47] <zequence> It's not for server admins, after all
[16:47] <sakrecoer> zequence: porbably. it does look good...
[16:48] <OvenWerks> zequence: anything that fails with network speed or wobble is a bod design.
[16:48] <OvenWerks> *bad
[16:49] <OvenWerks> test for internet connect, show stuff, when asked to install, test net again, if goood install.
[16:49]  * sakrecoer thinks what OvenWerks means by design is what zequence means by implementation
[16:49] <zequence> OvenWerks: But, there's cache too
[16:49] <zequence> The apt cache, I mean
[16:50] <zequence> Before it has internat at all, it will only show the installed packages, nothing else
[16:50] <OvenWerks> zequence: it seems they are monitoring the network all the time.
[16:50] <sakrecoer> zequence: but it starts fine with apps that aren't installed, then after "update" it removes all apps that aren't installed yet
[16:50] <OvenWerks> maybe even have an open connection to some server.
[16:51] <zequence> sakrecoer: Did you install without internet connection?
[16:51] <zequence> That is what I did
[16:51] <zequence> But, if update removes all apps from it's cache, then that would be weird
[16:52] <zequence> Or, it creates its own cache based on the apt cache each time
[16:53] <zequence> Seems like there's a lot of stress and activity going with the release side of things
[16:53] <OvenWerks> anyway, another reboot to make sure alsa restores
[16:53] <zequence> And, gnome-software is getting an update. What I don't know
[16:55]  * OvenWerks still likes cairo dock.... even if it is more candy than help :)
[16:55] <zequence> I used it a lot about 4-5 years ago
[16:55] <zequence> Haven't tried it since. Went over to Go Docker, or whatever it was called
[16:56] <zequence> But, since Gnome3, I haven't done any customization whatsoever
[16:56] <sakrecoer> bug #1572669
[16:56] <sakrecoer> zequence: i installed with internet connection
[16:57] <zequence> sakrecoer: Well, seems to be of no matter, since it does that also in between apt updates
[16:57] <OvenWerks> alsa remembers setting from boot to boot.
[16:58] <sakrecoer> wow... gnome-software --verbose :)
[16:58] <zequence> sakrecoer: Ah, the mafia method. Making it talk!
[16:59] <zequence> Our packages -sounds and -screensaver were just removed from the archive
[17:00] <OvenWerks> zequence: That sounds like a good thing ???
[17:00] <sakrecoer> verbose gives "Gs-DEBUG: app invalid as kind unknown" on EVERY app :D
[17:01] <zequence> OvenWerks: Yes, it was planned. Ross created the two bugs that did it
[17:02] <zequence> No one were using them, or maintaining them
[17:02] <sakrecoer> hahaha!! "mafia method" 
[17:05] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: it appears it tries to do a background update every once in a while that fails because it has a bad enetry in polkit
[17:05] <OvenWerks> (not registered)
[17:05] <sakrecoer> ye, they are probably still furbishing it :)
[17:05] <zequence> OvenWerks: Maybe that's the upcoming update?
[17:06] <OvenWerks> Possible.
[17:06] <sakrecoer> hope so :) 
[17:06] <sakrecoer> on a happy note, i'm super impressed with what has happened to "my paint"..
[17:07] <OvenWerks> Ok, plugging in a USB stick pops up a file manager window... we used to disable stuff like that. (can cause trouble if you happen to recording at the time.)
[17:09] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: taking note of that too OvenWerks 
[17:10] <OvenWerks> killing software after starting it from the terminal... the window vanishes, but the terminal does not show it exited
[17:10] <OvenWerks> gnome software continues to run in the background. That is also not acceptable for low latency work.
[17:12] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: ^^^ that may be why stopping and starting don't make much difference
[17:12] <zequence> Since we're syncing with Xubuntu, that is just the way things are right now
[17:13] <zequence> SOmeone needs to take command of maintaining our own DE setup, if we want our own stuff
[17:13] <zequence> There's much to do there, not just adding a few fixes now and then
[17:13] <OvenWerks> Right.
[17:14] <zequence> We could even have a DE lead
[17:14] <zequence> For us, that makes a lot more sense than for any other distro
[17:15] <zequence> ..since most of them are dealing mostly with that
[17:16] <zequence> OvenWerks: Might perhaps suit you?
[17:17] <zequence> Just thinking out loud - but you are one who does put most focus on that, from a functional POW
[17:17] <zequence> I'm not assigning any leads right now anyway - I just quit!
[17:18] <zequence> But, just as an idea
[17:19] <Rosco2> :-)
[17:19] <sakrecoer> I was thinking i wanted to learn how to make desktop themes this summer...
[17:20] <zequence> sakrecoer: That's just for the look of things. Pretty sure Len's less interested in that part
[17:21] <zequence> He does care more about how different process interact and how they may mess up your daily work, if you care about low latency
[17:21] <zequence> Also, he does care about the graphics stuff, but more from the view - does it work or not
[17:22] <sakrecoer> :) that would make us copmlementary. but we'll see.. i have to be carfeull right now about what i get invested in, since i'm going to have a new jobb soon (hopefully)
[17:23] <sakrecoer> i mean, a part from PL stuff...
[17:23] <sakrecoer> anyways, with a little luck autumna will stick arround for a while and might be interested in the graphic look of things :)
[17:24] <sakrecoer> i believe cub is happy with those things too, although not sure he will have more time this cycle
[17:25] <sakrecoer> guess i'm boiling down to: "yes, it would be nice with our own DE, unless we go DE-agnostic"
[17:29] <zequence> I'm not so much talking about the look of it, just that it works
[17:29] <zequence> the look is something that the art department should do, anyway
[17:33] <zequence> I do believe Len is usually looking out for the audio side of things, and that could break things for other users in some cases
[17:33] <zequence> So, before we Desktop Agnostic, that would be a bad thing
[17:34] <zequence> But, I'm sure he can work from a generic POW as well? Anyway, just me thinking loud.
[17:35] <OvenWerks> I have (in the past - with menus for example) tested things on more than one DE.
[17:38] <Rosco2> Some of the things we need to tweak for low latency apply on any DE
[17:39] <zequence> Yes, that is true. But, some things can't be changed on a full DE install, like Unity, or Gnome
[17:40] <zequence> We do have our own swappiness, and the audio group thing set for the first user
[17:56] <OvenWerks> Bug #1572681
[17:57] <OvenWerks> Not a show stopper for sure, but if anyone is ever dealing with a user trying to use a wiimote to control Ardour... it won't work.
[17:58] <OvenWerks> Though midikb can be used to make it workable  :)
[18:02] <zequence> Sounds like a nice SRU fix later on for who ever wants to do it :)
[18:08] <OvenWerks> dmesg is in pretty colours now
[18:09] <OvenWerks> printing 32bit ISO to USB
[18:12] <sakrecoer> while working on the new website, for this release, we just update this page: http://ubuntustudio.org/download/ right?
[18:19] <OvenWerks> reboot
[18:20] <Rosco2> sakrecoer, there is a sort of a checklist here
[18:20] <Rosco2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DevEvents/Release
[18:20] <sakrecoer> thanks Rosco2 !
[18:27] <OvenWerks> 32 bit live session is ok
[18:27] <OvenWerks> 32 bit installing ok so far
[18:29] <autumna> *tries to catch up to the backlog*
[18:37] <OvenWerks> reboot, 32 bit installed
[18:43] <autumna> sakrecoer yes I would definitely be happy to contribute to graphic side of things
[18:43] <autumna> *has totally tweaked her own custom window decorations*
[18:49] <autumna> Sakrecoer: btw I might have said this 3 hours ago too so apologies if this is double. I did manually copy the website tweaks in (I haven't committed them to git because still didn't learn that much git *chuckles*) and we do have necessary plugins to edit, you can start piling what you have into the feature tour page, or you can send them to the mailing list or something and I can put them in for you. Either way after we put the co
[18:52] <OvenWerks> gnome-software update available.
[18:58] <OvenWerks> gnome-software is still wonky. I think it does stuff in the background with out telling the user it is busy.
[19:00] <OvenWerks> anyway, 32 bit marked as passed
[19:02] <OvenWerks> I think gnome-software in ubuntu is different from upstream as it installs snap packages. (paid for SW)
[19:02] <sakrecoer> well... good thing you bring it up, i got all caught up in testing so i haven't written a line yet :|
[19:03] <sakrecoer> i'll write it as a draft in the main site tho (ubuntustudio.org)
[19:04] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: hehe... gnome-software update will not show up in gnome-software upon refreshing :D
[19:04] <OvenWerks> snap allows a dev to build and package sw in 16.01 and have it still work in 20.10 :P
[19:05] <OvenWerks> in other words people who want to paid for their work also do not want to keep the sw up to date
[19:05] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: i'll take that for granted when i see it in 2020 :D
[19:07]  * sakrecoer whips himself a little and logs off to write something for the release party
[19:08]  * OvenWerks goes back to 14.04 to get some "work" done.
[19:28] <cub> Just ran an installation of i386 on hw as well. confirmed the bugs OvenWerks had listed
[19:28] <cub> otherwise it went fine
[19:33] <cub> I was thinking about looking into creating desktop themes during summer...that was years ago. Maybe next summer...;)
[19:49] <autumna> cub: how about we will encourage each other to actually sit down and do it? 
[20:30] <Rosco2> so we have a respin!!
[20:33] <sakrecoer> autumna: can you login to http://ubuntustudio.org/wp-admin ?
[20:33] <autumna> yes..
[20:33] <autumna> or was able to 10 min ago
[20:34] <autumna> wait no
[20:34] <sakrecoer> you should find drafts in there you can use while its being finnished.
[20:34] <autumna> that's the stage. 
[20:34] <autumna> let me see if I can login
[20:34] <sakrecoer> ok, then i'l mail it to you as soon as i get home...
[20:34] <sakrecoer> yes try, i think you should be able being in the website team
[20:35] <autumna> yes I can login here
[20:35] <autumna> sorry my brain was completely elsewhere. 
[20:35] <sakrecoer> \o/
[20:45] <flocculant> Rosco2: I just a mail saying your build failed? 
[21:12] <OvenWerks> yes it looks like there was another spin... that failed. I guess that means more testing/late release?
[21:13] <zequence> OvenWerks: There was a late upload or something that borked it
[21:13] <zequence> They will do another respin soon
[22:11] <Rosco2> Walk away for a while and what happens?
[22:12] <zequence> Rosco2: Build failures and more respins?
[22:13] <zequence> New ones on the way in abuot 40min, perhaps
[22:13] <zequence> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/ubuntustudio
[22:13] <zequence> Probably more before they are published. Not sure
[22:14] <zequence> They are having quite party at the -release channel
[22:24] <sakrecoer> hmm... intalled along side but grub didn't do its job.
[22:24] <zequence> sakrecoer: What kind of problem?
[22:24] <sakrecoer> no entry for the new install the grub menu
[22:25] <sakrecoer> i''l try reboot a third time
[22:25] <zequence> sakrecoer: Sure you installed GRUB into the right drive?
[22:26] <zequence> Or, did you do a manual installation
[22:26] <zequence> I mean, "or did you do automatic partitioning"
[22:27] <sakrecoer> i think i did automatic partitioning..
[22:27] <sakrecoer> in ubiquity, i picked "install along side 14.04"
[22:29] <flocculant> sakrecoer: can I just say that atm the installer is a bit broke - best to wait till respins spin
[22:29] <sakrecoer> ok :) 
[22:29] <sakrecoer> thanks flocculant !
[22:29] <sakrecoer> it worked fine last time, but i guess i got less lucky this time
[22:29] <flocculant> and then let you know that by ~4pm they'll want some smoketests done and someone to tick the box
[22:30] <flocculant> not thanking me now ... 
[22:30] <sakrecoer> ..for the info :)
[22:30] <sakrecoer> 4pm... UTC?
[22:31] <flocculant> always UTC
[22:31] <sakrecoer> :)
[22:31] <flocculant> and guessing
[22:31] <flocculant> and care about Xubuntu at that point :)
[22:32] <flocculant> always about - but studio is 2nd for me ;)
[22:32] <zequence> There have been a couple of times where the testing was saved by non Ubuntu Studio members, such as flocculant 
[22:33] <flocculant> zequence: :)
[22:33] <flocculant> well - I'd much prefer you had a smaller download :p 
[22:33] <zequence> lol, yes
[22:34] <zequence> I remember once I was really stressed, at work, downloads took time, and then did an install on a usb stick, but it was only 8GB!!!!
[22:34] <zequence> Studio needs a bit more to just be able to install :D
[22:34] <flocculant> ha ha ha 
[22:35] <flocculant> I try to \zsync a few times pre panic
[22:35] <flocculant> sakrecoer: good luck :)
[22:35] <zequence> I didn't have any good medium to install to. Don't remember my VirtualBox situation at the time, but that's always a choice of course
[22:35] <zequence> Well, a devent one at least
[22:35] <flocculant> especially when that Xubuntu QA bloke's running the milestone
[22:36] <flocculant> he's nasty :D
[22:36] <zequence> haha
[22:36] <Rosco2> Build succeeded buy the looks
[22:37] <Rosco2> I'm zonked - read you all tomorrow
[22:37] <zequence> Rosco2: Sure thing
[22:37] <autumna> bye Rosco2
[22:37] <zequence> I will not do any more installs today either
[22:38] <flocculant> zequence: what about when you have respins ... 
[22:38]  * flocculant is refusing - will look tomorrow 
[22:38] <zequence> flocculant: I'm getting dizzy from all the spinning, so I better lie down for a while, I think
[22:39] <flocculant> zequence: I kind of gave up 
[22:39] <flocculant> respun for *&our* fixes - work
[22:39] <flocculant> smoketesting now ;)