[00:57] <PLA1> Hi. Trouble creating a Kit. I have tried on several machines 14.04, 15.10, 16.04. I have a BQ M10 tablet. The Kit creation fails with: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[00:57] <PLA1> ubuntu-sdk-libs:armhf : Depends: ubuntu-html5-container:armhf  Complete log here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15958310/ What is best route for getting the SDK up and running? TIA, PLA
[02:26] <Espionage724> hi; was wondering if Ubuntu Touch was getting a bump to 16.04 at the same time it releases on the desktop (tomorrow)?
[02:55] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: no I don't think so
[02:55] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: since Ubuntu Touch releases are done a bit differnetly
[02:55] <Espionage724> ah
[02:55] <sebsebseb> and there was just a major update OTA 10
[02:56] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: it will say like based on Ubuntu 15.04  0r 16.04 or whatever in the info, but
[02:56] <sebsebseb> it doesn't follow the desktop relase cycle I would say
[02:56] <sebsebseb> does it's own thing
[02:56] <sebsebseb> major updates every few months or so it seems
[02:56] <sebsebseb> proper over the air updates
[02:57] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: it's also quite differnet in a good way from Desktop Ubuntu :)
[02:57] <Espionage724> nice; thanks for the info
[02:57] <sebsebseb> altough now with the tablet can start installing DEsktop software on it to
[02:57] <sebsebseb> comes with things like FIrefox by default :)
[02:57] <sebsebseb> got mine what's now yesterday for me :)  well the cheaper one, I'l get the other later on.  but that was my 3rd Ubuntu touch device :D
[02:58] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: buy a tablet if you want something interesting with Ubuntu Touch
[02:58] <sebsebseb> the BQ M10 yes
[02:59] <Espionage724> I have a Nexus 4 currently; I started using Ubuntu Touch a few days ago and so far it's pretty nice
[02:59] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: yeah I think you can get some of the converged apps working on that to actsaully
[02:59] <sebsebseb> but the actsual Ubuntu devices are nice
[03:00] <Espionage724> ah
[03:00] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: I would of had a NExus a few years back, 2012 bu was sold out etc
[03:00] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: so no I don't have a NExus,  so far trying to buy all the Ubuntu touch devices though, but money doesn't quite align
[03:01] <sebsebseb> however three out of the currennt six not bad :d h e h
[03:01] <sebsebseb> or make that 7 even if the versions of  the Ubuntu tablet count as being differnet enough
[03:02] <Espionage724> ah; yeah I picked up a N4 back around launch and ended up selling it shortly aferwards; just recently I bought another for like $60 though
[03:02] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: wehre did you buy from?
[03:03] <sebsebseb> and yeah a NExus whatever only point really to buy enough would be to put other OSes on, not sure how to do that
[03:03] <sebsebseb> altough stock Android is meant to be quite nice too
[03:03] <sebsebseb> Espionage724: NExus 4 is the old one?
[03:03] <sebsebseb> the thing they started doing UBuntu touch with?
[03:03] <sebsebseb> I Think so?
[03:03] <Espionage724> eBay; won it in an auction but the average price is about $50-$80 depending on what size you get; yeah the N4 was the first Nexus to get Ubuntu Touch
[03:04] <Espionage724> the N7 2012 got a release for regular Ubuntu desktop first though, but I don't think it ever got updated to Touch
[04:11] <MarkusDB1> Hi, I'm looking for a really easy to install on android tablet. I know there is ready made tablets currently, but I want it cheaper. Is the nexus 7 (2013) a good option?
[04:11] <lotuspsychje> !devices | MarkusDB1
[04:11] <ubot5`> MarkusDB1: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[04:11] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: nexus7 wifi model works like a charm
[04:12] <MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: What I like is that it's from 2013 (plenty of full forums) and also is avaiable for about $100 on ebay currently.
[04:12] <lotuspsychje> yeppers
[04:13] <lotuspsychje> i bought me a new nexus7 specially for ubuntu touch
[04:13] <MarkusDB1> I'm about to get one
[04:13] <MarkusDB1> just realized that 1920x1200 tablets had gotten expensive
[04:13] <MarkusDB1> so the nexus 7 seems like a nice option
[04:14] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: or buy a BQ m10
[04:14] <MarkusDB1> google might have made too many, since there seems to be stockpiles being sold off.
[04:14] <kurros> how does recovery mode work on the M10 for ubuntu-device-flash touch? I got the recovery-frieza.img from http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/avila/ but can't figure out how to make ubuntu-device-flash happy. When i choose "reboot to bootloader" it sits at a black screen with "=> FASTBOOT mode..."
[04:14] <MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: yeah, I know that is about $100 more though
[04:16] <MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: if you're very used to linux and the command line, and no backups needed of tablet.. how long would you estimate it takes to install and get going on the nexus 7?
[04:16] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: 10min
[04:16] <MarkusDB1> ah great =)
[04:16] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: just follow the install wiki in topic
[04:17] <MarkusDB1> ah great
[04:17] <MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: thanks for your friendly support =)
[04:17] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: no sweat :p
[04:32] <MarkusDB1> Is it also possible to run "desktop" ubuntu on the nexus 7, or is that included in the touch version (like a mode)? I'm a total ubuntu touch noob, so trying to figure it all out.
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: ubuntu-desktop is for running on laptops, desktops and x86 tablets
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: ubuntu-touch is installed on specific devices, supported
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: with the new 16.04 and unity8, it will be able to run unity8 on x86 tablets aswell
[04:36] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: so you will have an ubuntu-touch feeling, on so many devices
[04:36] <MarkusDB1> I was wondering if I could get an experience similar to a laptop with ubuntu tough and an external usb-keyboard?
[04:36] <MarkusDB1> *ubuntu touch
[04:36] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: of course
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: both android and x86 devices with blutooth keyboards
[04:37] <MarkusDB1> any x86 device that is an easy install currently for 16.04?
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: but your choice if you will choose for an android like devices that supports touch, or buy an x86 tablet with unity8/16/04
[04:38] <MarkusDB1> I've seen microsoft is really pusing away those atom z bay trail tablets for cheap bundled with windows.
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> yeah, they recenlty sacked 10.000 workers at intel lol
[04:38] <MarkusDB1> lotuspsychje: what x86 tablet device should I look for?
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: well in theory, every tablet that can run windows8 could be installed ubuntu-desktop on
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: just keep in mind, some devices are harder to tweak
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> like custom kernels n such
[04:39] <MarkusDB1> I've understood that, but it there seems to be..  UEFI-locked??/DRM problems with some devices?
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> in some cases that could be
[04:40] <MarkusDB1> any x86 compatible device list yet?
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: hmm thats gonna be hard to find, as so much brands out there
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: best way is really install it, and see..
[04:41] <MarkusDB1> takes time to order though =)
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: wait the 16.04 release, and follow the unity8 development
[04:42] <MarkusDB1> Yeah I guess so
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: im sure youtube will hit much stuff pretty soon!
[04:42] <MarkusDB1> yeah I guess so
[04:42] <MarkusDB1> I think I get an ARM tablet now, and the x86 after the summer
[04:43] <MarkusDB1> since canonical is somewhat invested with the ARM too with the aquaris
[04:43] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: i think the goal will be able to install ubuntu on all devices
[04:44] <MarkusDB1> that is a great goal
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: i have already bq 4.4, nexus7,netbook and desktop all running ubuntu
[04:44] <MarkusDB1> great
[04:44] <MarkusDB1> I got a ton of machines running ubuntu, no tablets or phones yet though
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: experiment with unity8 yourself then on your machines?
[04:46] <MarkusDB1> Yeah I guess so. I got a pretty specific application for the tablet though.
[04:47] <MarkusDB1> so even if I can play around on my other machines, I doesn't really help me =)
[04:47] <lotuspsychje> ok
[04:47] <lotuspsychje> what kind of app is that MarkusDB1
[04:47] <MarkusDB1> it's a monitoring application
[04:47] <MarkusDB1> I want to monitor some stuff..  with the tablet
[04:47] <MarkusDB1> think.. "mini" digital signage
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: terminal based?
[04:48] <MarkusDB1> browser based.
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> cool
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> MarkusDB1: did you test it on webbrowser-app already?
[04:48] <MarkusDB1> yeah
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> great
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> well nexus7 is cheap indeed and working great on touch
[04:49] <MarkusDB1> I want ubuntu for ssh remote management amongst other stuff
[04:50] <MarkusDB1> btw.. speaking of intel.. they seem to be reconfiguring to mobile/vr.
[04:50] <MarkusDB1> and it seems rough going =)
[04:51] <lotuspsychje> :p
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> technology is caging mankind
[04:52] <MarkusDB1> overall I feel that cpus have stagnated, only benefit is great deals on ebay =)
[12:57] <bhdouglass> hey beuno, did your log searches bring up anything? It seems uApp Explorer was adding and removing apps again :(
[12:58] <beuno> bhdouglass, wes has been firefighting a bit today as welll
[12:59] <bhdouglass> oh no! I'm sorry guys, I hate it when that kind of stuff happens. I think I'll turn off the app parsing for now
[13:01] <bhdouglass> beuno / wesleymason if you guys don't mind, could you let me know when you get the fire out?
[13:05] <wesleymason> bhdouglass: for all intents and purposes the fire should be gone, we switched back to our old API instance, the disappearing/reappearing apps was probably during the fire
[13:06] <bhdouglass> wesleymason: thanks for the info, I'll leave uApp Explorer running and let you guys know if it runs into any problems again.
[13:06] <wesleymason> bhdouglass: ta!
[13:33] <peat-psuwit> abeato: I've sent a pull request for oFono. Could you please have a look? https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/pull/239
[14:11] <saavento> hi
[14:12] <saavento> is there anyway to install a media player on the tablet?
[14:12] <ogra_> there is one installed
[14:13] <saavento> yes
[14:13] <ogra_> (actually a media player and a music app)
[14:13] <saavento> but cannot reproduce streaming
[14:13] <saavento> or can it?
[14:13] <ogra_> yeah, thats on the TODO i think
[14:15] <peat-psuwit> abeato, awe_: I've sent a pull request for oFono, could you please have a look? https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/pull/239
[14:15]  * ogra_ blames jhodapp for only working 24h per day
[14:15] <abeato> peat-psuwit, we'll do, thanks
[14:15] <ogra_> you really need to double that !
[14:17] <jhodapp> ogra_, haha
[14:17] <jhodapp> ogra_, so we need to invent a time warping device so I can work more than 24h
[14:17] <jhodapp> saavento, what type of streaming?
[14:18] <Sleep_Walker> I'll buy it too, I can use it for sleep
[14:19]  * ogra_ would be happy with .m3u8 support :)
[14:19] <dobey> jhodapp: we have those; they're called amphetamines :P
[14:19] <jhodapp> dobey, ha!
[14:24] <saavento> jhodapp rmyp or rstp or even m3u8
[14:24] <jhodapp> saavento, yeah not set up to do any of those yet
[14:24] <saavento> typo: rmtp not rmyp
[14:24] <saavento> oks just asking
[14:25] <saavento> very happy with the tablet :)
[14:26] <ogra_> i got vlc running in a libertine container in /home/phablet here ...
[14:26] <ogra_> sadly it is useless due to X11 not being accelerated in any way
[14:27] <saavento> ogra_ did you have to change ro to wr on the partition?
[14:27] <ogra_> no
[14:27] <saavento> oks
[14:27] <ogra_> i have a hackish script to create a container in the writable space
[14:27] <saavento> :)
[14:28] <ogra_> that saves me from touching the readonly partition
[14:28] <saavento> yes i dont't want to mess with that
[14:29] <saavento> for the moment :)
[14:53] <_5a54a_> Hello
[14:54] <_5a54a_> Did receive my BQ Ubuntu tablet.
[14:54] <_5a54a_> (pre-order)
[14:54] <_5a54a_> I am not clear about some things on this tablet
[14:55] <_5a54a_> Is the bootloader locked? How to activate FDE? Is it save to use apt-get?
[14:56] <ogra_> the bootloader is never locked on any bq devices
[14:57] <ogra_> for full desktop experience you need to attach mouse and kbd ... or you can toggle the switch in the session indicator
[14:57] <ogra_> and no, apt-get on the normal system shouldnt be used, but you can create a libertine container to use it in for installing additional apps with it
[14:59] <_5a54a_> Thank you! Have you/anybody tried to change OS (from ubuntu to ubuntu-gnome or something else) on this tablet
[14:59] <ogra_> (why would i :) )
[15:00] <ogra_> if i want a laptop UI i use it on a laptop :)
[15:01] <_5a54a_> Okay. Fine. I am already using ubuntu-gnome on my laptops, but might also be a good experience on the tablet.
[15:01] <_5a54a_> FDE: I ws referring to full disk encryption
[15:02] <_5a54a_> Just wondering if the OS can be replaced easily.
[15:02] <dobey> _5a54a_: to use gnome you would need to build a whole new image and phone os built around gnome itself, for it to be particularly useful on a phone/tablet
[15:03] <ogra_> _5a54a_, lol
[15:03] <dobey> there is no disk encryption yet on the phone/tablet images
[15:03] <ogra_> _5a54a_, *that* FDE is on the roadmap ... but might probably wait til the phone and tablet switches to a snappy base
[15:03] <dobey> and yes, you can replace the OS easily, but it will probably be a poor experience if you do
[15:06] <_5a54a_> snappy base is on 16.04? So FDE will arrive soon :)
[15:06] <_5a54a_> Any how-to available to change to OS. Just to try.
[15:07] <_5a54a_> ?
[15:10] <dobey> 16.04 and snappy on the phone is probably a bit far from "soon"
[15:11] <dobey> i'm sure there's probably a "how to install a linux os on an android device" or 50, somewhere on the web
[15:12] <ogra_> yeah, perhaps a year out or so
[15:12] <ogra_> the phone uses its own archive and is still based on 15.04
[15:12] <ogra_> i.e. there is no systemd yet
[15:13] <popey> I just updated my rc-proposed e4.5 and the apps scope is blank
[15:14] <_5a54a_> Well, then I just have to wait for a year to see FDE. Will search on the how-to.
[15:15] <ogra_> i noticed it was a biot slow to refresh on my MX4 this morning when i upgraded
[15:15] <ogra_> popey, oh, refreshing it now gets me an empty one as well
[15:16] <ogra_> _5a54a_, the update mechanism kind of relies on being able to access the partitions ... if you tinker with it it will likely break ...
[15:18] <dobey> ogra_: i'm sure it will break anyway if one is attempting to install ubuntu-gnome on it
[15:18] <ogra_> heh, yeah
[15:19] <ogra_> popey, i wonder if it is a bandwith issue due to release day
[15:19] <ogra_> refreshing it now gets me icons again
[15:19] <dobey> you could probably do disk encryption then, but might end up impossible to type in the passphrase in the boot loader
[15:20] <dobey> ogra_: for the store maybe, but not for the local apps scope it wouldn't be a network issue
[15:20] <popey> ogra_: damn well shouldn't be
[15:20] <popey> seeing what apps I have locally shouldn't depend on anything online
[15:20] <dobey> local apps scope only hits the network when you open app previews
[15:20] <popey> IMHO
[15:20] <popey> now I refresh it works again
[15:20] <ogra_> dobey, doesnt it query the store on refresh ?
[15:21] <ogra_> k
[15:21] <dobey> ogra_: no, why would it? the apps are installed
[15:22] <_5a54a_> ok, doesn't sound to be easily to change OS to ubuntu-gnome. But if ubuntu-gnome is installed there is no need to update the ubuntu tablet edition anymore?
[15:22] <dobey> if it comes up blank then either it crashed, the query wasn't run, or something caused enough disk i/o that it couldn't read the .desktop files
[15:22] <_5a54a_> so, breaking it doesn't matter to me
[15:23] <_5a54a_> ..it seems..
[15:24] <dobey> ogra_, popey: hmm, worked just fine here, on both mako and hammerhead after today's update
[15:24] <ogra_> how would you run ubuntu-gnome ? there is no xserver for that HW available
[15:26] <_5a54a_> so, actually you can't run ubuntu-gnome on the tablet at all (as no xserver is available)? Then there is no point trying to.
[15:26] <ogra_> (you could run Mir and Xmir but i suspect thats horribly slow for a full DE )
[15:31] <dobey> _5a54a_: sure you can run it. but like i said, you have to build a whole new custom image built to run a regular ubuntu system, to do that
[15:31] <dobey> ogra_: you could presumably install a regular ubuntu arm build in the same way that one installs a regular ubuntu arm OS on a nexus tablet
[15:31] <dobey> it's really not worth the trouble to do so though
[15:32] <ogra_> dobey, and use xorg-fbdev ?
[15:33] <_5a54a_> it is probably me, but after 1 day or 2 of playing with the tablet, I just do not like the scope very much.
[15:33] <dobey> ogra_: i guess
[15:34] <ogra_> _5a54a_, time to write your own then .... one that you like to have as homescreen :)
[15:38] <_5a54a_> yeah...maybe that is the best solution :)
[18:02] <kurros> how does recovery mode work on the M10 for ubuntu-device-flash? I got the recovery-frieza.img from http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/avila/ but can't figure out how to make ubuntu-device-flash happy. When i choose "reboot to bootloader" in system recovery it sits at a black screen with "=> FASTBOOT mode..." but u-d-f still says waiting for bootloader
[18:05] <troyready> I was wondering about that too
[18:11] <kurros> I was trying to change to rc-proposed for something in stable-phone-overlay but have appear to made a $300 brick. doesn't boot past the BQ splash screen anymore
[18:35] <troyready> kurros: so you need to start the tablet in bootloader (fastboot) mode and reflash it right?
[18:36] <troyready> I'm curious in how it goes since I've been getting prepped to start hacking on mine and want to make sure I have a solid recovery plan just in case
[18:47] <kurros> that seems to be the plan i'm not sure how because I can't seem to make u-d-f get past "Expecting the device to be in the bootloader... waiting". on either the System Recovery screen or when I choose "reboot to bootloader" (which says fastboot mode but nothing happens there).
[18:48] <kurros> i'm not sure if adb is supposed to see the device at that point or not
[18:50] <dobey> there is no adb in fastboot
[18:51] <dobey> i'm not sure if the bq devices can be flashed in fastboot even (i don't have one myself though)
[18:52] <kurros> :(
[18:53] <moxie> hi all. is there a way to change the keyboard layout for X11/Xmir applications as well?
[18:53] <dobey> moxie: the keyboard indicator should do that i think
[18:54] <moxie> ah, i forgot to say that i meant an external bluetooth keyboard
[18:54] <kurros> guess I need to find out if BQ will help me if I ship it back
[18:55] <dobey> moxie: a keyboard is a keyboard
[18:55] <troyready> kurros: have you tried contacting them yet? There's got to be some way to flash it back without having to ship it back
[18:55] <dobey> keyboard indicator doesn't care if it's bt or usb or whatever
[18:56] <moxie> hmm, but what do you mean with the indicator applet? in the language settings i was able to define a layout for the external keyboard but it does not seem to apply for x11 applications
[18:56] <moxie> it works on touch apps like the touch terminal of course
[18:57] <moxie> i am on a bq tablet
[18:57] <dobey> moxie: i mean, is there not a keyboard indicator in the top panel when you pull down?
[18:57] <moxie> on regular ubuntu i guess so, but i cannot see it here
[18:58] <dobey> i don't have one, but i thought it was supposed to get an indicator too. maybe i'm wrong
[18:59] <moxie> i tried to use localectl but it does not work due to the read only fs
[19:00] <dobey> kurros, troyready: btw, you don't need to reflash to switch channels. you can do it directly on the device with "sudo system-image-cli -vvvv --switch $channel"
[19:02] <kissiel> Good evening!
[19:08] <moxie> does one know if there is a way to access the FF downloads folder from outside the application ?
[19:08] <moxie> it does not seem to make use of the regular download folder
[19:09] <kurros> troyready: i've opened a ticket. fingers crossed
[19:10] <kurros> dobey: i had tried that but got a python error. don't have the scrollback anymore. does that require a writable fs?
[19:11] <dobey> kurros: no
[19:11] <dobey> kurros: just requires network access
[19:12] <kurros> okay. will try again if I can get back to a bootable tablet :)
[19:13] <dobey> moxie: where did it download to?
[19:14] <kissiel> dobey: I guess that's what moxie is asking ;-)
[19:14] <dobey> moxie: legacy apps like firefox are run inside a container, and /home/phablet is not bind-mounted for security, afaik. so it's probably downloading files to some place inside the container and you will have to look inside it to find them
[19:44] <kissiel> what FS i should format my SD card to work with U-T?
[19:46] <ogra_> just format it in teh device
[19:46] <ogra_> with the Sd card management tool ...
[19:46] <troyready> kurros: cool, let me know what you hear. If there's anything I can help test (my m10 fhd is still completely stock) let me know
[19:46] <kissiel> ogra_: oh, it makes it a FAT
[19:46] <kissiel> ogra_: 4GiB limit is .... ugly as f*.*
[19:47] <kissiel> ogra_: I tried ext4, ntfs, vfat
[19:47] <ogra_> well, needs to be compatible with media players, cameras, mac and windows etc etc
[19:47] <kissiel> everytime I placed it in m10, it complained
[19:47] <kissiel> is there any way to make M10 understand exfat?
[19:48] <kissiel> as this is weapon of choice for most media today?
[19:48] <chch> maybe by paying the fee to microsoft
[19:48] <ogra_> not out of the box ... that would require hackery in the readonly bits of the system and likely break after an OTA
[19:50] <kissiel> ogra_: thanks man, and that makes me cringe a bit ...
[19:51] <dobey> do you have a 1TB sd card or something?
[19:51] <kissiel> 64G
[19:52] <kissiel> wanted to push some FHD content for a long flight
[19:52] <kissiel> I think I'll recode that to fit 4G limit
[19:52] <kissiel> but that's subperfect
[19:52] <dobey> vfat should surely work
[19:54] <dobey> the 32GB sd in my mp3 player is vfat anyway
[19:55] <dobey> oh, i guess you mean file size limit, not the partition size
[19:56] <ogra_> yeah
[19:56] <ogra_> for full hd movies thats kind of tight
[19:56] <kurros> does the touch media player support split files?
[19:56] <dobey> kurros: you could format it ext4 perhaps, but you have to mount it manually on the tablet
[19:57] <ogra_> and need to deal with permission issues etc etc
[19:57] <JanC> ogra_: why would the sd card in a phone/tablet necessarily have to be compatible with cameras, macs and windows?
[19:57] <dobey> permission issues?
[19:58] <ogra_> yeah ... you need to mount with uid option and such
[19:58] <ogra_> JanC: to share files ?
[19:58] <dobey> well, as long as all the files on the card are readable by everyone shouldn't be a problem
[19:59] <ogra_> supporting non vfat systems has a lot more complexity
[19:59] <kissiel> I don't care about mounting it on macs/win systems
[19:59] <ogra_> dobey: thats more about writing indeed :)
[19:59] <dobey> not really
[19:59] <kissiel> just want my content :(
[19:59] <JanC> ogra_: all my USB sticks & several SD cards are ext4 formatted, so bye bye compatibilty ;)
[19:59] <dobey> kissiel: format it ext4 and mount it manually on the phone
[19:59] <ogra_> and sharing it with other machines (where you woint even have the phablet uid)
[20:00] <ogra_> it is surely fine as a personal hack
[20:00] <ogra_> but for having something like ext4 supported by default there needs to go some work into the system
[20:01] <dobey> ogra_: well, there's really no good reason we shouldn't handle ext4-formatted sd cards as at least read-only things
[20:01] <ogra_> JanC: talking about your moms windows computer indeed ;)
[20:01] <dobey> and mount them automatically that way
[20:01] <kissiel> dobey: thx man, definitely will try it out, but I wanted to give this device to my SO so she can enjoy it; manually mounting FS
[20:01] <kissiel> kinda sucks
[20:01] <dobey> will make it easier for some people
[20:02] <ogra_> dobey: we dont support readonly, you woul dbreak things like the camera app ;)
[20:02] <JanC> my mom has a dumbphone that doesn't even have an sd card reader  ;)
[20:02] <ogra_> so thats the first thing you'd need to fix
[20:02] <kissiel> btw. gentlemen, why not exfat/
[20:02] <dobey> ogra_: why does camera app have to write stuff to the sd card?
[20:02] <kissiel> it's built for that kind of media
[20:02] <dobey> kissiel: ask MS why not exfat
[20:02] <troyready> kissiel: it's not freely licensed iirc
[20:02] <JanC> is exfat usable without patent-licenses nowadays?
[20:02] <ogra_> dobey: it doesnt have to, but it currently can
[20:02] <kissiel> ah, shit
[20:02] <kissiel> sorry for being ignorant
[20:03] <ogra_> dobey: if you enable that feature on a readonly target i doubt the app will be happy :)
[20:03] <kissiel> so what does android default to? (never had android device)
[20:04] <dobey> ogra_: has anyone even tested what happens when the sd card is mounted read-only? that clearly sounds like something that needs to be tested during qa
[20:04] <dobey> ogra_: ie, what happens when you flip the switch on the sd card to RO and then plug it in? :)
[20:04] <ogra_> dobey: no, nobody has tested it, thats my point
[20:04] <ogra_> i'm sure you will find a lot of interesting corner cases
[20:05] <ogra_> the camera is an obvious one
[20:05] <ogra_> in any case, there needs to be work done before we can support ext4 or readonly SDs
[20:06] <ogra_> (it should definitely happen ... but will take time and someone to do it)
[20:06] <kissiel> ogra_: are you suggesting that SD card is the only HW that can be r/o?
[20:07] <dobey> no
[20:07] <dobey> kissiel: he's saying that SD card is not currently handled as being RO
[20:07] <ogra_> no, i'm saying that ro mode will cause issues that nobody has thought of yet
[20:08] <ogra_> +and that will first need fixing before you could make such a thing a default option
[20:08] <kissiel> mkay, so what about just supporting 'normal' ext4 volumes?
[20:08] <kissiel> ah
[20:08] <dobey> because permissions problems
[20:09] <ogra_> *potential* permission probs :)
[20:09] <ogra_> back then we simply picked the most compatible option ... which was vfat for everything you can share with another machine
[20:09] <ogra_> it had been on our roadmap to extend that ...
[20:10] <ogra_> not sure what todays phone team plans for this though
[20:13] <kissiel> hmmm, from a user's point of view, that's a PITA (the 4GiB limit), from power-user's POV, that's circumventable
[20:13]  * ogra_ loves how scribus is installing in a libertine container in teh background while i IRC on the M10 ....
[20:14] <ogra_> kissiel: how about from your gandmas POV ?
[20:14] <kissiel> all grandmas dead
[20:14] <ogra_> she surely rather wants the SD to work between her camera and the tablet :)
[20:14] <dobey> ogra_: if the sd is exfat, it won't work :)
[20:15] <ogra_> so that she can look at th epics she took on teh bigger screen
[20:15] <ogra_> dobey: heh
[20:15] <kissiel> that's a good point, still, for me it's more about high-cap storage more than x-platformness
[20:15] <roadmr> kissiel: hey :)
[20:16] <ogra_> kissiel: but you are able to hack it :)
[20:16] <kissiel> roadmr: hey, I asked, as ogra_ was taking about vfat that you suggested I should try
[20:17] <roadmr> i see
[20:17] <JanC> IIRC Microsoft only sues device makers for exfat, so Ubuntu/Canonical would be fine, but I'm not sure if bq/Meizu would be
[20:18] <ogra_> they wouldnt ... it is also usually the device makers that are the ones that pay
[20:18] <kissiel> JanC: "only sues" seems so friendly ;)
[20:18] <JanC> well, it's possible they already pay
[20:18] <ogra_> indeed
[20:19] <JanC> pay without actually using it...
[20:19] <dobey> does android support exfat?
[20:20] <kissiel> ugh... I really wish that EU would stick more to low-level things like FSs than to android in general
[20:20] <JanC> it certainly can support it
[20:20] <dobey> well, so can my NES if i write a driver for it; but that wasn't the question
[20:20] <ogra_> ubuntu can certainly support it too
[20:20] <JanC> some Android devices certainly support it
[20:21] <ogra_> because the vendor paid
[20:22] <JanC> Ubuntu desktop/server have exfat support in universe  :)
[20:23] <kissiel> yeah, like exfat-{fuse,utils} is the one of the first pkgs I install
[20:23] <dobey> yeah, userland junk though
[20:23] <JanC> so is ntfs-3g
[20:24] <JanC> and it's not "junk"
[20:24] <dobey> do any android devices support exfat in kernel space?
[20:24] <JanC> it's based on the same codebase as the in-kernel drivers from the same vendor
[20:25] <dobey> my honda is based on the same physical principles that a ferrari is, but that doesn't make my honda a ferrari either :)
[20:25] <lam_> how can i update the nexus 10 to the newset version of ubuntu touch
[20:26] <dobey> lam_: ubports.com
[20:26] <lam_> dobey: i
[20:26] <lam_> dobey: i've tried that it causes boot issues
[20:27] <dobey> lam_: what channel?
[20:27] <dobey> lam_: rc-proposed is the latest stuff
[20:27] <JanC> dobey: http://www.tuxera.com/products/tuxera-exfat-embedded/
[20:27] <lam_> from ubports
[20:27] <lam_> ?
[20:27] <dobey> lam_: yes
[20:28] <lam_> i'll look into it
[20:28] <lam_> i was going from official servers
[20:29] <kissiel> JanC: thay wanted my money for ntfs support on a osx machine... I wonder how much of the earned money they pay back to ms
[20:29] <dobey> JanC: was that page supposed to tell me something useful?
[20:30] <JanC> they sell exfat to Android device makers
[20:30] <JanC> in-kernel exfat
[20:31] <dobey> but no mention of what makers and what devices have it
[20:33] <lam_> dobey: now after flashing from ubports i havean eprom with red cross in bacground
[20:33] <lam_> dobey: now after flashing from ubports i havean eprom with red cross in background
[20:33] <dobey> i don't know what that means or how you flashed
[20:34] <lam_> using ubuntu-device-flash
[20:35] <lam_> its says "this phone needs restoring from a pc"
[20:35] <dobey> ubuntu-device-flash has many options
[20:36] <dobey> and you can flash from fastboot or via developer mode or from recovery
[20:36] <lam_> sudo ubuntu-device-flash --server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable --device=manta --bootstrap
[20:38] <dobey> you don't need to run ubuntu-device-flash with sudo
[20:39] <dobey> unless perhaps you manually ran adb with sudo too or something weird like that
[20:39] <dobey> and you shouldn't need to pass --device either
[20:40] <dobey> i'd say reboot to the bootloader, and try again without the sudo and without the --device options
[20:42] <lam_> trying now
[20:44] <lam_> no luck spits out the same error "device needs to be restored from pc"
[20:46] <kurros> hahahaha
[20:47] <kurros> ubuntu-device-flash is working on the m10 now. it got past the "Expecting the device to be in the bootloader... waiting" when I used sudo
[20:47] <kurros> (i've never ran adb with sudo)
[20:48] <troyready> interesting -- udev issue maybe?
[20:48] <kurros> could be
[20:50] <troyready> Let me know where you end up -- I really want to be able to play around on mine with assurance that I can get back to stock
[20:54] <lam_> hmm seems to push files to the device while in recovery but on boot it refuses to flash them
[20:58] <kurros> troyready: yay she boots. back to stock. used the stable channel image for now. i've had enough stress for today.
[20:58] <troyready> Nice :)
[20:58] <lam_> dobey: does the Ubports install require you to be on a spesific version of android before flashing
[21:01] <dobey> lam_: what os was on the device when you tried to flash?
[21:04] <lam_> dobey: ubuntu touch devel v2 from ubuntu.com
[21:04] <akunz05> how do i put ubuntu touch on my nook color
[21:04] <dobey> akunz05: port it
[21:04] <akunz05> i need steps on how to do so
[21:05] <dobey> lam_: ok. go download the original 4.4.2 or 4.4.4 android images from google, flash it on using the included tool, let the device boot to the android welcome screen, reboot to the bootloader, and try to flash ubuntu again
[21:05] <dobey> akunz05: see the topic
[21:05] <akunz05> thank you
[21:06] <lam_> dobey: ok
[21:09] <lam_> dobey: no luck
[21:10] <kurros> now that i have bootstrapped with the proper recovery image for my BQ M10 do I need to use --recovery-image in the future every time or is it there for good now?
[21:11] <troyready> kurros: I was just reading about the adb enabled recovery images -- where did you get it for the m10?
[21:11] <dobey> lam_: you are not very forthcoming with information are you?
[21:11] <dobey> and i can't believe you did all of that in only 3 minutes
[21:12] <dobey> kurros: afaik you need to use it every time
[21:12] <kurros> troyready: i found it by poking around jhm's site with the E4.5/E5 images: http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/avila/
[21:12] <dobey> kurros: but really, you don't need to reflash the device to switch channels; you can do it on device just fine
[21:13] <kurros> dobey: yeah, i just did the system-image-cli --switch now, its doing its thing :)
[21:13] <lam_> dobey: error as before " you need to connect to a pc to restore"
[21:14] <dobey> lam_: ok, well either you are doing something wrong or something is wrong with your hardware (device, cable, usb port), but i can't help you any more.
[21:16] <troyready> kurros: cool, thanks
[21:17] <troyready> kurros: so your m10 is the non-fhd one right? I'm trying to figure out how different the fhd (codename 'cooler' if I've seen right) model is
[21:17] <troyready> Specifically if I can use the same recovery
[21:17] <kurros> hmm, no I have the FHD model
[21:18] <kurros> ive read the processor is clocked to a different speed by i don't know if its actually different
[21:19] <troyready> oh, ok sweet -- that's reassuring. Glad you verified the frieza recovery worked :)
[21:20] <troyready> It's interesting that they're separate product codes and images, but the About page on the device just lists it as frieza
[21:56] <derZar> hi, somebody there?
[22:08] <pmcgowan> lots of people may be here
[22:09] <ogra_> only 247
[22:10] <pmcgowan> ogra_, are you dyslexic? I see 274
[22:10] <ogra_> I so am!!
[22:11] <derZar> :o
[22:11] <derZar> so many people!
[22:12] <derZar> I've got a bq e5 few days ago
[22:12] <derZar> to improve my app developement skills and linux by itself
[22:13] <derZar> but the terminal and I...
[22:13] <derZar> we aren't friends atm
[22:14] <derZar> i want to install some extension packages to run some apps... and my question is how?
[22:15] <pmcgowan> derZar, the best way is to add a chroot, dobey  explained how to somewhere
[22:15] <ogra_> Use a chroot in /home/phablet
[22:15] <pmcgowan> ltr
[22:15] <ogra_> yeah, somewhere on askubuntu
[22:15] <derZar> ltr?
[22:17] <ogra_> http://askubuntu.com/a/623311
[22:19] <derZar> ye thats it
[22:19] <derZar> thx :)