[01:38] <Bqm10man> Using the bq m10 right now. Has anybody else got theirs yet?
[01:39] <Bqm10man> \?
[02:02]  * ahoneybun wants this badly https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/rotate-dash/+merge/292377/+index?ss=1
[02:03] <ahoneybun> mzanetti, ^
[08:27] <mzanetti> ahoneybun, me too :)
[09:29] <matv1> hi still loving my M10 a lot after a week. Just one thing. After sidestage use, I keep getting the three finger hint. Which obviously should only run once
[09:29] <matv1> is there some kind of config file fix for this
[09:29] <matv1> its gets annoying :(
[09:37] <Smurphy> Is the M10 fast enough for general usage ??? I already got a BQ4.5 - but wonder if I get an M10 too ;}
[09:41] <matv1> Smurphy depends what you call fast and what you call general usage I guess :). If you plan to use it as a desktop, i would say. no. Too slow and too limited
[09:41] <matv1> as a tablet its not the fastest, but very usable
[09:43] <matv1> I also have the BQ4.5 but its unfortunately unasable now coz of a smashed screen. I have to say that the M10 performs smoother then the BQ4.5 when it was released
[09:46] <matv1> Soo is there anyone that can even confirm that Sidestage first-use hint that doesnt go away on the M10?
[09:47] <matv1> I assumed it was common but I cannot seem to find a Unity8 bug for it yet
[09:47] <Smurphy> matv1: Thx for the hints.
[09:48] <matv1> Smurphy np
[09:55] <matv1> I take it that all first run hints are indeed part of Unity8?
[10:45] <matv1> right. filed a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1573524
[10:45] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1573524 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "side stage first-use hint about 3-finger swipe does not stop (Frieza)" [Undecided,New]
[10:48]  * ogra_ confirms, thats an annoying one ... 
[10:49] <matv1> ogra_ yes thanks. On another note: my kid is very disappointed that your webapp port of the tower rush game doesnt run on the M10.
[10:50] <matv1> unfortunately he doesnt have a launchpad account :)
[10:50] <ogra_> matv1, yeah, i was already talking to oSoMoN about that ...
[10:50] <ogra_> something doesnt work with the browser/webapp container on that site
[10:51] <ogra_> tapping the play button isnt recognized
[10:51] <oSoMoN> ogra_, have you had a chance to do some debugging of what’s happening there?
[10:51] <ogra_> i promis i'll fix it if i found whats wrong :) (it is just that time is a bit limited on my side atm .. sanppy curse)
[10:52] <ogra_> oSoMoN, nothing helpful in the logs iirc
[10:52] <matv1> ah cool :) well I did notice some other app in the store that kinda did the same thing for another game from that site does work. if its any help.
[10:52] <matv1> except that didnt force a full screen
[10:53] <matv1> so that might be the difference. just a thought
[10:59] <ogra_> oSoMoN, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15979690/
[11:00] <ogra_> TouchEvent.initTouchEvent' is deprecated
[11:00] <ogra_> ?
[11:00] <ogra_> could it be that ?
[11:00] <oSoMoN> ogra_, it shouldn’t, because it’s only a deprecation warning, the feature is still there
[11:00] <ogra_> yeah
[11:01] <ogra_> talks about sept.
[11:01] <ogra_> it works fine on all my phones ... which is the weird bit
[11:08] <matv1> ogra_ oSoMoN might it have something to do with oriantation. I also notice that on Frieza, the webapp doesnt notice a portrait orientation
[11:10] <ogra_> i dont do anything to prevent rotation ...
[11:10] <ogra_> and here it rotates
[11:11] <ogra_> doesnt seem to make a difference if it is in portrait
[11:12] <matv1> yes but on the phones, the app does notice the wrong orientation and it tells you to rotate
[11:12] <ogra_> the day-d app ?
[11:12] <matv1> yes
[11:12] <ogra_> hmm
[11:14] <R0MN4G> Hi
[11:14] <matv1> the is some funky stuff going on with orientation anyway. My qml app does have a line to prevent orientation but after OTA 10.1, Unity isnt picking up on that any more.
[11:15] <matv1> ogra_ ofcourse that may be totally unrelated
[11:15] <R0MN4G> Does my tablet "Lenovo A10-70" support Ubuntu Touch?
[11:16] <R0MN4G> anyone?
[11:17] <davmor2> R0MN4G: you might be able to port it but it won't out of the box
[11:17] <R0MN4G> okey, thanks for the answer :P
[11:19] <ogra_> matv1, oSoMoN ... got it ... it needs a mobile UA, then it works
[11:20] <oSoMoN> d’oh, stupid websites which assume mobile == touch
[11:20] <ogra_> bah ... but then it doesnt draw the background ...
[11:20] <ogra_> i see all items, just not the wallpaper
[11:21] <R0MN4G> Sorry, I forgott to ask if my Huawei P8 Lite supports Ubuntu?
[11:22] <matv1> R0MN4G same answer as before :)
[11:23] <R0MN4G> :-/
[11:23] <R0MN4G> Is it possible reinstall Android after installing Ubuntu?
[11:23] <R0MN4G> If it would not work
[11:25] <matv1> R0MN4G yes if you take the right backup precautions
[11:26] <R0MN4G> oki
[11:46] <cariveri> Hi.
[11:48] <cariveri> my aquaris e5 crashed in a delicate way: 107 messages sent the clock reads and I could not turn the phone of with the power off button. the phone is a few days in my hands.
[11:50] <cariveri> I had to wait until the battry was as low as powering off by itself.
[11:50] <Smurphy> Reset it. I don't know what you did with it - by my BQ4.5 runs for quite a while without a crash now.
[11:51] <Smurphy> cariveri: http://askubuntu.com/questions/602834/how-to-reset-bq-ubuntu-phone-when-gui-is-inaccessible
[11:51] <mcphail> cariveri: hold the power button for 10 seconds longer than it takes for your finger to start aching
[11:53] <cariveri> mcphail: is there multiple length actions? I thought there is just block screen and power off, when pressed long.
[11:55] <mcphail> Holding it longer than you'd expect does a hard piwer off
[11:56] <cariveri> I see. perhaps I did not do it long enough. though Im tempted to send the device back for a replacement.
[11:56] <ogra_> not really, it does a reboot :)
[11:57] <mcphail> ogra_: aah. true
[12:11] <leousa> Hi all
[12:12] <leousa> Anyone here experiencing high battery consumption while idle on the BQ M10 tablet?
[12:12] <Smurphy> nope.
[12:12] <Smurphy> I don't have the tablet though. BQ4.5
[12:13] <leousa> Nah it doesn't happen on the BQ 4.5
[12:13] <leousa> only in the tablet
[12:14] <leousa> there is a kworker process constantly taking 17% of CPU
[12:14] <leousa> here is the launchpad link in case anyone interested https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1573469
[12:14] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1573469 in Canonical System Image "BQ M10 tablet kworker process constantly at 17% CPU" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[12:15] <leousa> yeah i reported that oen
[12:22] <matv1> leousa hmm i can't confirm that one. Top is telling me kworker is using between 1 and 2 % cpu
[12:23] <matv1> but I have to say that I just recently rebooted. Maybe there is an increase in time
[12:23] <matv1> i will keep an eye on that
[12:24] <leousa> interesting, i rebooted also and saw kworker jumping to 17% inmediately after reboot
[12:24] <matv1> thats weird indeed
[12:25] <leousa> it seems some other people also see battery drain of 50% overnight
[12:25] <ogra_> both are virgin devices ? no hackery or making anything writable you shouldnt ?
[12:25] <ogra_> my battery löasts easily 18h here
[12:25] <leousa> yeah virgin tablet here, only installed few apps from the store
[12:25] <matv1> yeah same here
[12:26] <leousa> 18h is fine, but 40-50% drain while doing nothing on a 7h period seems high to me
[12:26] <matv1> and mine is no tinkering straight up latest stable channel
[12:26] <ogra_> i did the OTA upgrade and did re-set the device when i got it though
[12:26] <ogra_> (i.e. i went through the setup wizard of the new OTA)
[12:26] <leousa> im on OTA 10.1 but did not reset after update
[12:27] <ogra_> the original image doesnt offer you to set a user name (for the lock screen)
[12:27]  * ogra_ didnt like to be "Ubuntu"
[12:28] <matv1> ogra_ thats an interesting idea. I didnt do that though. ie I am still Ubuntu :)
[12:29] <leousa> just checked again, kworker/1:1 at 16.2% :/
[12:29] <leousa> only terminal open
[12:31] <ogra_> never above 1.7/1.8 here
[12:31] <popey> pmcgowan: ^  😃
[12:31] <leousa> fresh reboot kworker/0:1 at 16.4 already
[12:31] <popey> pertinent to our email conversation
[12:33] <leousa> might try to reset device, unless u folks think that i can provide more info about this issue in the launchpad bug i reported
[12:35] <pmcgowan> popey, yeah I was just perusing the bug report and checking myself, I do not see kworker running
[12:36] <pmcgowan> popey, while thats concerning, I think the real issue is we must not be suspending the device properly
[12:37] <leousa> sorry im not an expert, but kworker also jumps inmediately after reboot, without suspending the device
[12:42] <pmcgowan> leousa, and it stays high or does it just spike?
[12:42] <leousa> it just stays high, fluctuates between 15.9 and 16.2 % all the time
[12:43] <pmcgowan> leousa, and have you run any applications yet?
[12:44] <leousa> not since last reboot
[12:44] <leousa> only terminal to run top
[12:44] <pmcgowan> leousa, ok and which scope is open, today?
[12:44] <leousa> pmcgowan right now im at the Apps scope
[12:45] <leousa> but i have today and nearby also
[12:46] <pmcgowan> ok I am unable to reproduce it so far
[12:46] <leousa> that is weird
[12:46] <pmcgowan> leousa, do you have bt and wifi on? I have both active
[12:47] <leousa> i have wifi active, not bt
[12:49] <leousa> pmcgowan, turning them all on or off doesnt change anything for me
[12:49] <pmcgowan> leousa, there are some good techniques at http://askubuntu.com/questions/33640/kworker-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-hogging-so-much-cpu for using perf to pinpoint the issue
[12:50] <leousa> pmcgowan, alright thanks, ill have a look
[12:50] <matv1> leousa just a thought: after the latest reboot, have you activated desktop mode ?
[12:51] <leousa> no I did not
[12:51] <PaulFraOSAA> Hi
[12:52] <leousa> reboot, launch terminal, kworker 16% already
[12:52] <PaulFraOSAA> Just got my new tablet, It's great
[12:52] <matv1> leousa ok nm then
[12:53] <PaulFraOSAA> Has anybody found a good (read installable) Qt/QML IRC client? Whenever I use any gnome stuff, the keyboard is wrong
[12:54] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, i use kiwiirc and just exclude it from suspending
[12:54] <ogra_> (from the store)
[12:55] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Thanks, I'll check that out
[12:55] <ogra_> gsettings set com.canonical.qtmir lifecycle-exempt-appids [com.ubuntu.music,com.ubuntu.developer.ogra.kiwi-irc]
[12:55] <ogra_> that would exclude it from app lifecycle mgmt
[12:56] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Seems I'll check it out some other time, It says download failed :(
[12:56] <ogra_> oh ?
[12:57] <ogra_> definitely works here ... i just did a fresh install of the app
[12:57] <leousa> launching a trace echo 1  > /proc/sysrq-trigger and then running dmesg gives me lots of kworker messages related  to [ALS/PS]
[12:57] <ogra_> is your U1 account set up properly ?
[12:58] <PaulFraOSAA> Yes I already downloaded a bunch of stuff. Nothing today though
[12:58] <ogra_> weird
[12:58] <leousa> pmcgowan, [ALS/PS] als_get_data 1962 : als_get_data *value =225, *status =2
[12:58] <ogra_> you didnt make the system writable or some such (and ran out of space or so)
[12:58] <ogra_> ?
[12:59] <PaulFraOSAA> Hmm I just tried to install the XKCD scope, that downloaded and failed installing as well.
[12:59] <leousa> pmcgowan, also [power/gpufreq] mt_gpufreq_volt_enable_estate ==0! return
[12:59] <ogra_> looks like some systemic issue
[12:59] <ogra_> is that an unhacked system ?
[13:00] <leousa> yeah, vanilla system
[13:00] <leousa> just upgraded to 10.1
[13:00] <pmcgowan> leousa, did you get the update
[13:00] <ogra_> leousa, heh, i meant PaulFraOSAA
[13:00] <pmcgowan> ah
[13:01] <leousa> oh sorry
[13:01] <ogra_> nah, sorry that i didnt highlight properly :)
[13:01] <PaulFraOSAA> Yes, I haven't even had it connected to my pc yet
[13:01] <ogra_> <- lazy bastard
[13:01] <PaulFraOSAA> > . <
[13:02] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, very weird ... i could imagine some issues if you made itr writable or some such ... but if it is untouched it should just work
[13:02] <PaulFraOSAA> Well if it installs in system i have about 500 M free
[13:02] <leousa> pmcgowan, yes upon first launch I updated to 10.1 when i got the device
[13:02] <pmcgowan> leousa, aha!
[13:02] <pmcgowan> leousa, its the automatic brightness control
[13:03] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, 500M ? that should be rather 9G
[13:03] <leousa> ohh really?
[13:03] <ogra_> in the writable space
[13:03] <pmcgowan> leousa, go to brightness and turn off auto
[13:03] <leousa> pmcgowan, actually i just enabled that last night
[13:03] <pmcgowan> bingo, bug
[13:03] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Thats what I have in the userdata part
[13:03] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, what do you mean by "installs in system" ? thats readonly and you really shouldnt make it writable
[13:04] <leousa> pmcwowan, holy cow you are right
[13:04] <ogra_> (that breaks a lot of stuff)
[13:04] <leousa> that's it
[13:04] <PaulFraOSAA> Well I just did a df -h so there is that
[13:04] <ogra_> (or *can* break, rather)
[13:04] <PaulFraOSAA> If it just installs in the userdata part I have about 9GB
[13:04] <leousa> pmcgowan kworker is back to normal when i deactivate automatic brightness control
[13:05] <pmcgowan> indeed
[13:05] <popey> Nice find!
[13:05] <pmcgowan> leousa, thanks I will have someone dig into it
[13:05] <leousa> yeah lol
[13:05] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, if you didnt do any "remount,rw" of anything ...
[13:05] <leousa> pmcgowan my pleaser
[13:05] <leousa> pleasure
[13:05] <leousa> pmcgowan thx for your amazing job folks
[13:06] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Nope, I tried to run apt-get, bug got stopped. I shouldn't have done anything too bad.
[13:06] <cariveri> Smurphy: did reset it. thanks. hope thatll work.
[13:07] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, if you want to run apt stuff, create a fresh container in /home/phablet ... and use libertine-container-manager to install apps
[13:07] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15980818/ is a script i use for X11 apps
[13:08] <PaulFraOSAA> Sorry, Fat fingers and such
[13:10] <leousa> alright, im out thanks folks
 PaulFraOSAA, if you want to run apt stuff, create a fresh container in /home/phablet ... and use libertine-container-manager to install apps
 http://paste.ubuntu.com/15980818/ is a script i use for X11 apps
[13:20] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Now that sounds interesting, where can I read more about that?
[13:20] <ogra_> i dont think there is a lot documentation yet ... i squeezed the info out of ChrisTownsend's brain :)
[13:21] <PaulFraOSAA> btw, I also have a couple of bugs I'd like to report (like the keyboard in gnome apps stuff) I couldn't find anything other than "Maybe you should report the bug upstream"
[13:21] <ogra_> the essential bit is to move .local/share/libertine/ContainersConfig.json out of the way ... since that links to a readonly space
[13:22] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, thats a well known one ... keyborad support for X11 apps is being worked on
[13:22] <PaulFraOSAA> Oh, well then I don't need to know where to submit bugs or search for if they are known then ;P
[13:23] <ogra_> for now they work with external keyboards only ...
[13:23] <ogra_> you would have filed it against libertine or putine i guess
[13:23] <ogra_> on launchpad
[13:29] <rbasak> Has anyone else noticed the phone and messaging apps hanging since the last OTA? Usually after I haven't touched them in a while (and the screen has been off).
[13:29] <rbasak> I keep having to kill (swipe up) and restart.
[13:29]  * ogra_ never keeps them on screen :)
[13:29] <rbasak> Even if not on the screen - just in the background.
[13:30] <rbasak> I switch back to them and the screen stays frozen (rather than waking up on app restart as used to be the case)
[13:30] <rbasak> I think the contacts app is affected too.
[13:30] <rbasak> Maybe an issue with the auto app restart after kill thing?
[13:31] <rbasak> I wonder if I can simulate an OOM kill to reproduce.
[13:31] <ogra_> yes, i mean i swipe the app away when i'm done with a call ;)
[13:31] <ogra_> i think the dialer doesnt get OOMed ...
[13:32] <pmcgowan> timp, is that the uitk issue? ^^
[13:32] <ogra_> (so it will instead hit a system OOM then ... which might confuse things)
[13:32] <ogra_> pmcgowan, qtmir if at all
[13:34] <timp> pmcgowan: I don't know about that bug. I did fix a bug where the app seemed to freeze, which was caused by a Dialog that did not close properly and blocked all the app input https://code.launchpad.net/~tpeeters/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/freeze/+merge/291814
[13:34] <timp> but if it hangs even in background I think it is not related to this
[13:35] <ogra_> yeah, i thinnk it is rather a confusion with the OOM scoring system
[13:35] <timp> I meant this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1568016 but it is different
[13:35] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1568016 in ubuntu-ui-toolkit (Ubuntu RTM) "Freezes in uitk" [Critical,Fix committed]
[13:38] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: I went windows on it and now I'm on kiwi
[13:38] <PaulFraOSAA> Not perfect but at least I don't have to do the capcta each time
[13:38] <ogra_> you mean you rebooted ?
[13:38] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Yep ;)
[13:38] <ogra_> heh
[13:40] <PaulFraOSAA> My thought for installing programs btw was to mount my SD-card on /usr/local since that is completely empty and is on the path. Now I just need to figure out how to launch them. The terminal program is't terribly helpfull for that it seems
[13:40] <PaulFraOSAA> I don't have an SD card right now, so I can't say if that is't what it does :)
[13:42] <PaulFraOSAA> By the way, Almost all "developer machine" pictures I have seen of the M10 features it running creator, Is that even possible? Or is it for an "opened" machine?
[13:46] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, you'll have to fiddle a lot ... by default the SD is only handled when vfat
[13:46] <ogra_> (so you need to manually mount it after reboot etc etc ...)
[13:46] <ogra_> (make it user owned to not hit potential permission issues)
[13:49] <Elleo> PaulFraOSAA: bzoltan has been working on a QtCreator click package, which runs pretty nicely now but doesn't yet support building/running apps, so isn't quite ready for real use yet: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg19919.html
[13:50]  * ogra_ guiesses you could run it in a local libertine container too though ... might need some fiddling 
[13:56] <PaulFraOSAA> Elleo: Ok, One thing that could possibly be done was to port QML Creator from Android, That would be awesome on the touch.
[13:57] <PaulFraOSAA> It's really been a good way for me into QML, (I'm mostry a C++ guy)
[13:59] <Elleo> PaulFraOSAA: have you played with Terrarium at all? that lets you write QML and view it live as you edit which is quite fun: https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.penk.playgrounds
[14:00] <PaulFraOSAA> Elleo: That sounds pretty much like QML Creator, I'll check it out
[14:05] <PaulFraOSAA> It looks really cool. But it also made me sad because it reminded me that the dead keys still don't work with an external keyboard along with AltGr keys
[16:25] <melvster> Looking at the ubuntu aquarium m10 tablet is says: OS Ubuntu 15.04
[16:25] <melvster> does anyone know if it upgrades easily to 16.04?
[16:26] <melvster> Im thinking about ordering one, but not sure whether to do it now, or wait for the OS to be bumped, or how long that might take ...
[16:26] <melvster> any ideas?
[16:26] <lotuspsychje> melvster: you can order safely, ubuntu-touch works otherwise
[16:26] <lotuspsychje> melvster: check topic: ota 10.1
[16:27] <lotuspsychje> thats latest
[16:28] <melvster> lotuspsycheje: thanks!  so looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes/OTA-10.1  I am guessing that the tablet will auto upgrade "over the air" to 16.04?
[16:29] <lotuspsychje> melvster: the ota's count, dont focus on the release too much :p
[16:30] <lotuspsychje> melvster: in system settings ota version will also show
[16:30] <melvster> lotuspsychje: ok thanks, sorry wasnt 100% sure the relationship to OTA and release cycle.  Maybe I'll try this out on my nexus 4 first, then order the tablet.  Im VERY tempted (even tho im unsure how well 2GB will be)
[16:30] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu 15.04(ota 10.1) on my phone
[16:31] <lotuspsychje> melvster: im sure the m10 is a bomb :p
[16:31] <melvster> oh interesting
[16:32] <melvster> will 15.04 / OTA cyle / 16.04 converge -- sorry if that's a noob question!
[16:32] <mcphail> melvster: eventually...
[16:33] <mcphail> melvster: just now the phone has 15.04 with various backports in a special PPA
[16:33] <melvster> ah ok
[16:33] <mcphail> melvster: I don't know if the 16.04 branch is even booting yet!
[16:36] <melvster> mcphail: thanks, that's great info.  So there's an advantage to waiting, but maybe I
[16:36] <melvster> 'll order one anyway
[16:37] <mcphail> melvster: I'm not sure there is an advantage to waiting. Development is very active on the 15.04 + PPA branch
[16:38] <mcphail> melvster: I haven't heard how good (or bad) the tablet is, yet. So be aware you will be an "early adopter" ;)
[16:39] <melvster> mchphail: thanks, yes im used to living on the bleeding edge :P  im pretty excited about where all this is at, I think I'll soon make the jump to becoming a developer on closely related projects.
[16:39] <mcphail> melvster: Good. It is an easy platform to develop for. And they need as many hands helping out as possible
[16:41] <melvster> mchpail: it's a great positive community too, that's important.  I'd like to bring closer together the best of the web and the best of ubuntu, so I think there's good overlap.
[16:42] <melvster> s/mchpail/mchphail
[16:42] <mcphail> ha!
[16:42] <mcphail> melvster: "tab" autocompletion for nicks works wonders
[16:42] <melvster> oh nice tip, thx!
[16:42] <mcphail> ;)
[17:16] <dobey> mariogrip: hey. how is the battery fix coming? ready to put in rc-proposed for hammerhead? :)
[17:19] <dobey> melvster: the phone images don't follow the normal ubuntu release schedule. that it's currently built on 15.04 base doesn't have much meaning, as the kernel is from the android tree, not the ubuntu archive, and the phone images still receive necessary security updates and get the new phone features
[17:50] <PaulFraOSAA> I just got the tablet the day before yesterday, my first impressions are a mixed bag: The tablet is a bit slow. Youtube is not really usable, but great for browsing and stuff like that. The convergence is not really happening since the X11 programs don't play too well with external keyboards and actually developing _on_ the tablet seems somewhat ou
[17:50] <PaulFraOSAA> t of the question for now.
[17:52] <troyready> What's the issue with external keyboards and X11 apps?
[17:52] <PaulFraOSAA> That being said, the tablet shows a lot of promise. I'm nowhere near sorry I bought it, Just stick to the QML stuff and you'll be fine. And there is a lot of space to develop applications there. Qt is a really great framework and I'm super psyced that ubuntu seems to be chosing it over gtk
[17:52] <ogra_> Whtas the issue with youtube ?
[17:53] <troyready> ogra_: it's too stuttery in playback to be enjoyable
[17:53] <dobey> troyready: probably AltGr for various layouts
[17:53] <PaulFraOSAA> troyready: I use a danish QWERTY keyboard but have set it up to be a danish dvorak, when I'm in an X11 app (at least libre office or firefox) it's suddenly qwerty again...
[17:54] <ogra_> huh?
[17:54] <ogra_> runs totally smooth here
[17:54] <ogra_> how do you use it?
[17:55] <PaulFraOSAA> The console application is in mer, so I can't change the X11 keyboard using the terminal either and I can't install programs because the filesystem is read only (that will have to change soon)
[17:55] <troyready> ogra_: interesting; I tried a couple videos yesterday in the default browser and it was not great. I'll try rebooting it and see if its the same
[17:55] <ogra_> X paps are more of a preview, don't expect much yet
[17:55] <ogra_> *apps
[17:55] <dobey> PaulFraOSAA: you can't install programs in /. you can install apps in the libertine container though
[17:55] <ogra_> silly autocomplete
[17:56] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Both using the browser and the scene for youtube makes it run horribly slow. How did you use it?
[17:56] <ogra_> in the browser app
[17:56] <PaulFraOSAA> On the plus side, I finally got an app for ello ;)
[17:56] <dobey> scene? scope? the scope just opens the browser afaik
[17:57] <PaulFraOSAA> dobey: yes, yes it does
[17:57] <ogra_> apaudio is a little off, but I have no stuttering
[18:04] <SylvieLorxu> Hey everyone, I just got my Bq tablet, but I'm unable to install any apps as I cannot log into Ubuntu One. It keeps saying "Network error - please retry." but Telegram and the browser work fine
[18:08] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Just tried firefox to compare. It's just as laggy
[18:10] <troyready> SylvieLorxu: interesting. Can't offer any suggestions for help, sorry, but can say that it did work for me
[18:11] <SylvieLorxu> I'm also wondering, is there any reason Firefox, GIMP and Xchat-GNOME are on the device seeing how they won't open the on-screen keyboard and thus are completely useless?
[18:12] <SylvieLorxu> I guess perhaps if you have a bluetooth keyboard, but still, it feels... bad to have apps act like this in the default configuration
[18:15] <PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: Well they are trying to sell the "convergence" idea, so I don't think It's too bad to have it in the default install. Rather, they should have a seperate "folder/launcher" for the x stuff
[18:15] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: are you using turkish language for the device?
[18:15] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Nope, British English
[18:16] <dobey> hmm
[18:20] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: i suspect a typo in your password perhaps then, if not in your e-mail address
[18:20] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Already retyped it :(
[18:20] <PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: Didn't you enter that stuff during first boot?
[18:20] <SylvieLorxu> But I'll do so again I guess
[18:21] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: or perhaps an issue with the account itself, can you log in at https://login.ubuntu.com/+applications ?
[18:21] <SylvieLorxu> PaulFraOSAA: It never asked me during first boot, probably because I pressed skip after connecting to a wifi network because it didn't do anything after that
[18:21] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Actually, you're right
[18:21] <SylvieLorxu> I typed my email wrong
[18:22] <SylvieLorxu> What a stupid error message
[18:22] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: yes, the error message is due to a bug in qt; it's fixed in the next update
[18:22] <SylvieLorxu> Yay \o/
[18:23]  * PaulFraOSAA congratulates SylvieLorxu with his new tablet that can now get even more interesting stuff on it
[18:23] <PaulFraOSAA> ;)
[18:24] <SylvieLorxu> s/his/her/
[18:24] <SylvieLorxu> But thanks :P
[18:24] <nim> hi
[18:24] <nim> I just bought an Ubuntu Table
[18:24] <ogra_> Yay
[18:24] <PaulFraOSAA> sry
[18:24] <SylvieLorxu> They sell tables too? ;)
[18:24] <nim> is there a way to play videos ?
[18:24] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: x11 apps without a bt kb/mouse is a bit of a preview still; i think in an update or three there will be some better keyboard integration
[18:24] <nim> yes
[18:25] <nim> a bq
[18:25] <dobey> i know it's one of the things being worked on
[18:25] <SylvieLorxu> I think you mean tablet :P
[18:25] <nim> jeje
[18:25] <nim> tablet
[18:25] <PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: No, some ppl are just accustomed to smaller tables;)
[18:25]  * mr_rcollins just unboxed his BQ M10...
[18:26] <ogra_> min, video playback should just work
[18:26] <SylvieLorxu> nim: I litterally just got mine, so no clue, but I have a guess it may be part of gallery because that's what Android always did
[18:26] <nim> me too a bq m10
[18:26] <ogra_> err nim
[18:26] <mr_rcollins> First question: Why does that Today scope thingy only do landscape?
[18:26] <SylvieLorxu> So, removed stupid Facebook bloat (thank God you can uninstall that) and installed Terminal
[18:26] <SylvieLorxu> It is now officially better than Android
[18:26] <ogra_> lol
[18:26] <PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: Mine does portrait also
[18:26] <SylvieLorxu> For my needs that is
[18:27] <dobey> must be DHL delivery hour in EU
[18:27]  * PaulFraOSAA agrees with SylvieLorxu wholeheartedly
[18:27] <SylvieLorxu> Then again, lack of Dvorak is a HUGE disappointment
[18:27] <SylvieLorxu> Hahaha it comes with vi
[18:27] <SylvieLorxu> Oh my God this is heaven
[18:27] <SylvieLorxu> I need to get myself a bluetooth keyboard
[18:27] <mr_rcollins> Hmm, mine doesn't want to switch.
[18:28] <mr_rcollins> I also have no keyboard in touch mode in Firefox, Xchat, Libreoffice...
[18:28] <PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: I don't really miss it, if you get an ext keyboard dvorak works a charm
[18:28] <ogra_> SylvieLorxu: time to start filing bugs then ;)
[18:28] <SylvieLorxu> Is there a way to make screenshots?
[18:28] <PaulFraOSAA> (exept if you need AltGr, then you are up sh** creek with no paddle)
[18:28] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: I actually already did :P
[18:28] <ogra_> mr_rcollins: yeahm these apps are more in a preview state still
[18:28] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: vol up/dn simultaneously
[18:29] <SylvieLorxu> Niiiice
[18:29] <SylvieLorxu> Much better than on Android as well
[18:29] <ogra_> mr_rcollins: also they are desktop apps ... they work fine with external kbd
[18:29] <mr_rcollins> Too bad.  I am disappointed that I can't officially use apt-get. I need mosh, git, and tmux!
[18:29] <mr_rcollins> I threw caution to the window, mounted / rw and went to town anyway. :-)
[18:29] <ogra_> use a chroot or libertine container
[18:29] <PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: That was my first disappointment as well, It seems it's a "security feature"
[18:30] <dobey> mr_rcollins: you can do it in the libertine container, or make a chroot
[18:30] <ogra_> dont make teh system rw
[18:30] <dobey> remounting / is bad
[18:30] <ogra_> it will end in tears
[18:30] <mr_rcollins> I used apt-get, then mounted / ro.
[18:30] <ogra_> yeah, next OTA will wipe that
[18:30] <ogra_> but wont free up teh space
[18:30] <dobey> yeah, bad idea
[18:30] <mr_rcollins> ogra_, chroot work?
[18:30] <ogra_> so you eventually run out of room
[18:30] <ogra_> yeah
[18:31] <dobey> https://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone/623311#623311
[18:31] <ogra_> chroot or create a libertine container
[18:31] <mr_rcollins> That's a good idea.
[18:31] <dobey> mr_rcollins: ^^
[18:31]  * mr_rcollins is reading...
[18:31] <ogra_> libertine is used to also run graphical apps (i,e, firefox)
[18:31] <dobey> libertine container is probably a better option on the tablet though
[18:31] <ogra_> yeah
[18:31] <ogra_> you just need to tinker a bit to create one
[18:31] <dobey> since you get a lot of nice integration already for it
[18:32] <SylvieLorxu> I wish I could filter the Ubuntu store on only FOSS
[18:32] <ogra_> teh container config is readonly ... needs to be writable
[18:32] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: the store doesn't really know anything about licenses
[18:33] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Except that it shows it on each app
[18:33] <dobey> ?
[18:33] <PaulFraOSAA> BTW what is this with a max SD card of 64GB, Is it a certain type or does it just not see the rest of the card or will it refuse to see it entirely?
[18:33] <SylvieLorxu> Tap an app and on the right you'll see "License: GNU GPL v3" and so
[18:33] <SylvieLorxu> Or otherwise "Proprietary"
[18:33] <SylvieLorxu> So it definitely knows
[18:33] <mr_rcollins> Would it be recommended to create the chroot on an SD card? Then I can wipe the tablet if need be but keep my chroot.
[18:33] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA: it is the sfae value that was tested by bq ...
[18:33] <ogra_> safe
[18:34] <ogra_> doesnt mean that bigger ones dont work :)
[18:34] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: well, it just says whatever the person that uploaded the app entered there
[18:34]  * ogra_ has a 128GB card in his bq phone ... works fine
[18:34] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: Cool, I'll try it out with the tablet then
[18:35] <ogra_> mr_rcollins: then you need to manually mount the card ... by default only vfat is supported
[18:35] <mr_rcollins> That works for me. :-)
[18:35] <ogra_> (ext4 means manual mount etc)
[18:36] <mr_rcollins> I'd only have to do that if I restart the tablet, right?
[18:36] <dobey> hmm
[18:36] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: The libertine howto starts off by mounting / rw...
[18:36] <mr_rcollins> I'm not familiar with Libertine at all.
[18:38] <mr_rcollins> Setting up Libertine sounds like a bunch of no nos. Adding a new repo to apt-get and installing apps with apt-get.
[18:39] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_:  How is that agreeable with "don't remount / rw, it'll only end in tears"?
[18:40] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: hrmm, i was going to suggest something to filter out licenses of Proprietary, but it doesn't seem to work.
[18:40] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Why doesn't it seem to work?
[18:40] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15988603/
[18:40] <ogra_> try that
[18:41] <ogra_> it creates the container in .cache/libertine-container/$containername
[18:41] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: probably because it's not indexed for search on the server
[18:41] <mr_rcollins> So libertine-container-manager is already on the device?
[18:41] <ogra_> thugh do it via adb or ssh ... i think the terminal blocks some stuff
[18:41] <ogra_> yeah
[18:41] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Oh, that's disappointing :(
[18:42] <mr_rcollins> PaulFraOSAA, that's what's wrong with the wiki, they're having you install the libertine stuff even though it already is.
[18:42] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: i'm seeing if we can get that changed, so it will work. might have to wait until monday though
[18:42] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Oh, there's no rush
[18:42] <ogra_> the wiki is outdated and for nexus phones :)
[18:42] <SylvieLorxu> It's already more usable than the Google Play store ever was
[18:42] <SylvieLorxu> I'd just like to use it like F-Droid :P
[18:43] <PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: Yes, I just figured as much
[18:43] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: thanks
[18:44] <ogra_> the only blocking part is the .local/share/libertine/ContainersConfig.json link into the readonly space ... if you sort that out you can just use libertime-container-manager without making anything writable
[18:44] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: if i can get the team that owns the server to index it, looks like my idea will work though :)
[18:44] <mr_rcollins> ogra_, thanks for the help!
[18:44] <ogra_> (well, and as i said, you might want to use ssh or adb to run it ... the terminal app crealy blocks chroot calls)
[18:44] <mr_rcollins> I probably can't modify /etc/fstab either?
[18:44] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: I would really love that change
[18:44] <dobey> ogra_: so just delete the link and make new containers?
[18:44] <ogra_> mr_rcollins, right, thats generated
[18:45] <SylvieLorxu> Especially because I wanted to try Ubuntu Touch because I don't find Android Free Software-friendly enough
[18:45] <ogra_> dobey, well, move the link in case you want to resore the original file
[18:45] <ogra_> dobey, see my paste above
[18:45] <dobey> ogra_: well i don't have an m10 :)
[18:45] <ogra_> yet ?
[18:45] <ogra_> :)
[18:46] <dobey> probably ever
[18:46] <ogra_> :(
[18:46] <dobey> i am not a tablet person
[18:46] <ogra_> use it as laptop ;)
[18:46] <ogra_> i heard sergiusens plans to do that
[18:46] <dobey> yeah no :)
[18:46] <dobey> -ENOTENOUGHPIXELS
[18:46] <mr_rcollins> Does ssh not offer external access?
[18:46] <ogra_> FHD on 10" ?
[18:46] <PaulFraOSAA> SylvieLorxu: About it coming with vi, sadly it does't come with vim, so using it for coding becomes even harder
[18:47] <ogra_> mr_rcollins, only key based ... you need to put the key in place via adb (or wget it if you have it on a server)
[18:47] <mr_rcollins> Ok.
[18:47] <mr_rcollins> Is all of this in the wiki? I'd hate to keep asking questions that are answered somewhere. :-)
[18:47] <ogra_> mr_rcollins, to enable ssh permanently: android-gadget-service-enable ssh
[18:48] <ogra_> no., it is sadly spread all over the internet ... much is on askubuntu
[18:48] <ogra_> oh
[18:48] <ogra_> android-gadget-service enable ssh
[18:48] <ogra_> no dash :)
[18:49] <mr_rcollins> not just service ssh start?
[18:49] <ogra_> nope
[18:49]  * mr_rcollins is currently scrounging through drawers trying to find a charger and a USB cable to charge his tablet.
[18:49] <ogra_> (i mean, yes, but that will be gone after reboot)
[18:49] <troyready> mr_rcollins I've been in the same boat, feeling kinda bad asking what are almost certainly the same n00b questinos that all the new m10 owners are going to just keep asking over and over
[18:49] <PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: it seems they seem
[18:49] <dobey> ogra_: plus, i'd have to carry a bunch of extra hardware, and it wouldn't be powerful enough, and can't use steam and such on it
[18:50] <PaulFraOSAA> sorry about that
[18:50] <ogra_> you use steam on a laptop ?
[18:50] <mr_rcollins> chroot or Libertine will solve my cli problems.
[18:50] <dobey> ogra_: i've been looking at maybe getting a new laptop recently, and i'm not interested in anything less than 4k, or over 13"
[18:50] <dobey> ogra_: yes, not all games require a GPU farm
[18:50] <ogra_> yeah, i'm pondering upgrading my XPS13 too
[18:51] <mr_rcollins> Oh, what about reverse direction scroll? Is there anyway to get the full Ubuntu system settings?
[18:51] <mr_rcollins> With the FHD tablet somethings are pretty small.
[18:51] <dobey> ogra_: also have a couple of things i have to run under wine, still
[18:51] <ogra_> only X11 apps :)
[18:52] <ogra_> there is wine for arm ... you just need to port the windows apps ;)
[18:52] <ogra_> trivial stuff *g*
[18:53] <PaulFraOSAA> Well, dosbox should take care of some of it
[18:53] <ogra_> heh, true
[18:53] <PaulFraOSAA> Ran Daggerfall off a Raspi :)
[18:53]  * ogra_ hasnt actually tried installing dosbox in libertine 
[18:53] <mr_rcollins> Is the lock screen supposed to rotate?
[18:53] <ogra_> nope
[18:53] <SylvieLorxu> Ugh, the store is SO SLOW
[18:53] <SylvieLorxu> It's like I'm running the actual Ubuntu 15.10 :P
[18:53] <ogra_> i think thats on the TODO ... but with low prio
[18:54] <mr_rcollins> So I just need to figure out why the Today Scope doesn't rotate.
[18:54] <ogra_> scopes are fixed currently ... for that there is a fix underway i heard
[18:55] <ogra_> (you can hack the unity8-dash .desktop file (will be overwritten on OTA though) to not lock it )
[18:56] <SylvieLorxu> Side stage is so disappointing
[18:56] <SylvieLorxu> I love the idea
[18:56] <ogra_> depends for what you use it :)
[18:56] <SylvieLorxu> But if it overlays the fullsize app on the left, it makes that app unusable
[18:56] <SylvieLorxu> If it wasn't for that I'm sure I'd use it all the time
[18:57] <ogra_> i'm currently chatting in kiwi-irc from the tablet ... havint a telegram instance in the sidestage ... that works pretty well
[18:58] <ogra_> *having
[18:58] <SylvieLorxu> Only if you don't need whatever is on the right side of the main app
[18:58] <ogra_> right
[18:58] <SylvieLorxu> I really wish it'd just resize the main app, so it never overlays :(
[18:58] <dobey> that seems like a bug
[18:59] <ogra_> mzanetti, ^^is there anything plannet to mke the sidestage actually a WM tile ?
[18:59] <ogra_> (so that the bg app resizes)
[18:59] <PaulFraOSAA> Sidestage?
[18:59]  * ogra_ guesses its to late for mzanetti on a friday :)
[19:00] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, grab the running app with three fingertips and drag it to the right side of the screen
[19:00] <ogra_> a grey window slides in where you can drop it
[19:00] <PaulFraOSAA> Wow, A manual would really be awesome
[19:01] <ogra_> surely would
[19:03] <PaulFraOSAA> Just realized I'm in desktop mode and can just restore the windows if I want to see more than one at a time XD
[19:03] <ogra_> heh
[19:04] <ogra_> there is a toggle switch to turn desktop mode on/off ... sometimes helpful :)
[19:04] <PaulFraOSAA> Now I just need a BT mouse so I can actually resize the windows
[19:04] <ogra_> you can resize them with a fingertip ... it is just very fiddly
[19:04] <PaulFraOSAA> Yeah, I found it. When I connected my keyboard it didn't automatically switch to desktop mode
[19:05] <ogra_> no, it only hides the OSK
[19:05] <ogra_> mouse is the bit that triggers desktop mode
[19:05] <SylvieLorxu> Desktop mode should tile
[19:05]  * SylvieLorxu installs i3 ;)
[19:05] <ogra_> lol
[19:06] <PaulFraOSAA> Not that bad with the fiddlyness
[19:06] <ogra_> true ... but you notice it is more designed for mice
[19:06] <SylvieLorxu> Mice are evil
[19:06] <ogra_> hitting the minimize button can also be tricky
[19:06] <PaulFraOSAA> Yes, but in desktop mode I'm really not too surprised.
[19:08] <PaulFraOSAA> Hitting any button can be tricky. Doing the browser based irc I logged off about 4 times trying to switch channels
[19:09] <dobey> trackballs forevar!
[19:10] <ogra_> nah ... mice are fine ... you can tain them with cheese ... with what do you train a trackball ?
[19:10] <ogra_> **train
[19:10] <dobey> gravity
[19:11] <ogra_> ok, the chances you have gravity with you are indeed bigger than having cheese with you ...
[19:11] <SylvieLorxu> You don't need to train a trackball
[19:11] <ogra_> you win :)
[19:11] <SylvieLorxu> It's always on the right track
[19:11] <ogra_> oh, indeed !
[19:11] <PaulFraOSAA> dobey: balls to that, I haven't found out how to connect my logitech USB reciever so that I can use it ;)
[19:12] <dobey> otg adapter, but it probably won't work, because kernel has very limited set of drivers enabled
[19:12] <dobey> pretty sure logitech unifying receivers are not supported by that kernel
[19:13] <PaulFraOSAA> dobey:  I think I need to install solaris as well...
[19:13] <dobey> i don't think the solaris kernel will run on the device
[19:13] <ogra_> dobey, the tablet uses the android 5.x kernel source ... might be that thats in the defconfig
[19:13] <dobey> ogra_: i doubt it
[19:14] <ogra_> external devices got better support in 5.x ...
[19:14] <dobey> ogra_: usb-serial adapters are not enabled either :-/
[19:14] <ogra_> bah
[19:14] <ogra_> we shoudl fix that ;)
[19:14] <ogra_> and send a patch ...
[19:14] <dobey> yes, alecu and i would much like to have at least a few of the most common usb-serial drivers enabled
[19:15]  * ogra_ would like usb-audio ... 
[19:15] <dobey> but then we need some way to also do confined access to serial ports for apps
[19:15] <dobey> and background processing
[19:15]  * PaulFraOSAA would like some serial stuff too... and a compiler...
[19:15] <ogra_> snappy will fix that ;)
[19:15] <dobey> i doubt it
[19:15] <ogra_> dont be so pessimistic
[19:16] <ogra_> you already can have your snaps talk to serial ports ... (that was about the first HW bit we implemented alonng with gpio access)
[19:16] <PaulFraOSAA> QtSerial is really cool. Would it be possible to implement it like with GPS and stuff like that?
[19:17] <ogra_> you'd have to use C++ and check if the interface is exposed in the SDK already
[19:17] <ogra_> (i doubt the latter)
[19:18] <dobey> yes, well, a raspberry pi is not a phone
[19:18] <ogra_> and ?
[19:18] <ogra_> snappy is snappy :P
[19:18] <ogra_> the base will be identical
[19:19] <dobey> somehow i don't think that's true
[19:19] <ogra_> i'm pretty sure it is/will be
[19:20] <dobey> ask 10 people what snappy is, get 10 different answers
[19:20] <ogra_> that will change
[19:21] <PaulFraOSAA> Only the sanctioned version of the truth will be accepted!
[19:21] <ogra_> lol
[19:21] <mr_rcollins> Will I be able to set up an SD card with ext4 in the tablet?
[19:22] <PaulFraOSAA> It seems you will, but you will need to mount it yourself every time
[19:22] <ogra_> you should be ... fdisk/sfdisk as well as mkfs.ext4 should be there
[19:22] <dobey> i think i need a beer
[19:23] <ogra_> +1
[19:23] <baum> by chance someone could link me to the official issue tracker?
[19:23] <ogra_> baum, see the channel topic
[19:24] <baum> oh, thanks :)
[19:24] <ogra_> :)
[19:26] <baum> another stupid question, which bootloader is the aquaris m10 using?
[19:26] <ogra_> whatever android has ...
[19:27] <ogra_> some fastboot thingie ...
[19:27] <ogra_> (thats actually an area that ubuntu never touches)
[19:28] <dobey> wow, this totally smells like cherry cola too
[19:28] <ogra_> how many %%% ?
[19:28] <ogra_> above 20 ?
[19:28] <baum> hmmm i see, thanks :)
[19:28] <dobey> 5.5
[19:29] <ogra_> then it shouldnt smell like cherry cola
[19:29] <mr_rcollins> What are Ubuntu Touch apps written in? It seems like most of the apps are just wrappers around a website (Pocket, for example).
[19:30] <dobey> ogra_: but it's a "best damn cherry cola"
[19:30] <ogra_> hah
[19:30] <ogra_> mr_rcollins, QML
[19:30] <ogra_> (and javacript for the plumbing)
[19:30] <ogra_> *javascript
[19:30] <dobey> mr_rcollins: depends on the app; webapps are just "apps" that run a website in a confined browser view.
[19:31] <mr_rcollins> What about games?
[19:31] <mr_rcollins> QML?
[19:31] <baum> one last question for now: i've seen a lot of promo about the social media integration, are these opt-in or out features?
[19:31] <ogra_> QML, SDL ... HTML
[19:31] <PaulFraOSAA> Well QML is the front end, anything you want done for reals is C++
[19:31] <ogra_> baum, heh, what kind of promo
[19:31] <dobey> well, not everything is qml
[19:32]  * mr_rcollins hopes he can get Atari800 running.
[19:32] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, i havent needed C++++ yet with any of my apps
[19:32] <dobey> baum: social media integration?
[19:32] <dobey> ogra_: you are all #teamgolang now right?
[19:32] <ogra_> nah
[19:32] <ogra_> for the phone i'm totally team javascript...
[19:33] <dobey> so you're not a true snappy developer then?
[19:33] <PaulFraOSAA> Okies, the reccomendation from Qt is to do anything with presentation in QML and anything else in C++ in order to get perforamance out of the device
[19:33] <ogra_> dobey, nah, just a plumbing joe that makes new HW work and catherds the images
[19:33] <baum> i read in variouse blogposts about this gamechanging system :p
[19:34] <mr_rcollins> PaulFraOSAA, from the AskUbuntu Site: https://it-bqcom15-media.s3.amazonaws.com/prod/resources/manual/Aquaris_M10_Ubuntu_Edition_Complete_User_Manual-1460548936.pdf
[19:34] <ogra_> i do go if i need to (i wrote some patches to u-d-f actually)
[19:34] <PaulFraOSAA> I'd hope most developers would follow that. I'd hate my tablet to get slowed down by JS
[19:34] <dobey> baum: i'm still not sure what you're talking about :)
[19:35] <dobey> did you find some blog posts from 2009?
[19:35] <ogra_> baum, you should perhaps expand on what you mean with "social media integration"
[19:35] <dobey> ogra_: remembeer "social from the start" ?
[19:35] <PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: I'm sorry I can't see that link "no application for that type of file" what is it?
[19:35] <baum> give me a sec - on my mobile
[19:35] <ogra_> there is a facebook, a twitter and a telegram app preinstalled
[19:36] <ogra_> you can uninstall all of them if desired
[19:36] <dobey> facebook and twitter are just web apps too
[19:36] <ogra_> right
[19:36] <mr_rcollins> PaulFraOSAA, try it from my dropbox: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/172539/Aquaris_M10_Ubuntu_Edition_Complete_User_Manual-1460548936.pdf It's just a pdf.
[19:36] <dobey> there's a twitter scope, but i don't think you can do much interactively with it, as it's a scope
[19:36] <ogra_> there are scopes that you can also use ... thats about it with "social media integration"
[19:36] <baum> ogra_:  thats exactly what i wanted to know thanks
[19:37]  * ogra_ suggestes PaulFraOSAA installs the document viewer app :) 
[19:38] <ogra_> its a pretty decent docviewer for a lot of formats ...
[19:38] <PaulFraOSAA> I have it, Just not from inside the KiwiIrc
[19:38] <baum> guess pre installed fb and twitter makes it a dealbreaker for me =/
[19:38] <ogra_> pmcgowan, why is the docviewer not preinstalled btw ? to big ?
[19:38] <ogra_> baum, huh ?
[19:39] <ogra_> baum, you dont need to use them
[19:39] <ogra_> and can even remove them
[19:39] <pmcgowan> ogra_, hmm, not sure
[19:41] <ogra_> baum, note that this isnt android :)
[19:41] <ogra_> (apps cant spy on you or anything)
[19:41] <baum> sure, but i dont want that stuff on my system in the first place, nore do i want to support practices like that. thanks for the information though :)
[19:42] <baum> i'm aware of that, i wouldn't use android either :)
[19:42] <ogra_> they are just little containerized browsers that open twitter.com or facebook.com mobile pages ...
[19:42] <dobey> baum: they are literally just bookmarks to the web sites
[19:43] <ogra_> well, they are a lot safer than a boookmark :)
[19:43] <dobey> well, a little bit, sure
[19:43] <ogra_> (since the borwser that gets spawned cant see anything of the system)
[19:43] <ogra_> (not even other browser data)
[19:44] <ogra_> anyway ... they are there because jow normaluser simply expects them
[19:44] <ogra_> *joe
[19:44] <dobey> baum: "practices like that" <- like what?
[19:45] <ogra_> but yeah, if two icons are an issue for you the system is probably not for you ... i think we evejn have them inteh developer images
[19:46] <dobey> just long press the icon and tap uninstall
[19:46] <dobey> and bam, out of sight, out of mind
[19:47] <baum> guess i'll run it in a vm and pass by tomorrow, sounds like i am quite a bit missinformed
[19:47] <dobey> one of the first things i did 2 years ago when i put ubuntu on my phone was to uninstall the fb and other webapps i don't use
[19:47] <baum> thanks for the headsup
[19:47] <dobey> sounds like you are making uninformed assumptions
[19:48] <ogra_> you cant run it in a vm (well there is an emulator that comes with the SDK but it functions rather badly)
[19:49] <ogra_> oh
[19:49] <baum> dobey: hope to see you online once i'm on a keyboard - quite handicapped atm
[19:49]  * ogra_ just noticed it is the day of the german Reinheitsgebot ...
[19:49] <mr_rcollins> Thanks for all the help! I'm heading home.
[19:49]  * ogra_ gets another beer to celebrate that :) 
[19:51] <dobey> heh
[19:51] <ogra_> 500 years even
[19:51] <dobey> german beer?
[19:51] <ogra_> the purity law for it
[19:52] <ogra_> german beer is probably 1000 years old :)
[19:52] <ogra_> or older
[19:52] <dobey> i mean, is the beer you're drinking, german? :)
[19:52] <ogra_> ah, yeah
[19:53] <ogra_> sadly i dont have any of https://fstatic2.mtb-news.de/f/k0/1f/k01f9pi2e02d/large_Fukking_Hell.jpg?0
[19:53] <dobey> ogra_: which beer is it?
[19:53] <dobey> heh
[19:53] <ogra_> that would be the proper celebration beer
[19:53] <dobey> indeed
[19:53] <ogra_> just a warsteiner ... nothing exciting
[19:53] <dobey> ah
[19:54] <ogra_> boring pils :)
[19:54] <dobey> lol, what is that piston holding up in the background
[19:54] <ogra_> he is cuddling with the devil
[19:55] <dobey> no no, behind the beer. there's a connecting rod and piston holding up some kind of shelf, on the desk or whatever
[19:55] <ogra_> oh... no idea ... thats a totally random pic
[19:55] <dobey> ah
[19:55] <ogra_> google search for "fucking hell bier"
[19:55] <dobey> i'll just add the beer to my wishlist on untappd :)
[19:56] <dobey> https://untappd.com/b/fucking-hell-gmbh-co-handels-kg-fucking-hell/133446
[19:57] <ogra_> it is funny how people rave about the taste there
[19:57] <ogra_> the highlight is the name stupid !
[19:57] <dobey> heh
[20:00] <dobey> aww
[20:00] <ogra_> ?
[20:01] <dobey> bottled instinct only has a day left on indiegogo and only at 1500/150K eur goal
[20:01] <ogra_> uuh
[20:02] <ogra_> they really let that in at indiegogo ?
[20:02] <dobey> they let anything in at indiegogo i think
[20:03] <dobey> lol
[20:03] <ogra_> i bet they have *some* kind of policy
[20:03] <dobey> the 10K eur "perk" is hilarious
[20:04] <ogra_> if i'd start a "kill $president_of_some_funny_country" caimpaingn to hire a sniper they surely wouldnt
[20:04] <PaulFraOSAA> mr_rcollins: Thanks for the link, I've been looking for that but couldn't find it
[20:05] <grouperguy> hey guys
[20:05] <dobey> hi
[20:06] <grouperguy> I have a nexus 7 (2012 grouper) does anyone know if there is still some ubuntu available for it?
[20:06] <dobey> there is not
[20:06] <ogra_> nope
[20:06] <PaulFraOSAA> ogra_: No, that's on darkgogo, you need to tor into that
[20:07] <grouperguy> what about this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation
[20:07] <dobey> that's incredibly close to "darph bobo"
[20:07] <ogra_> PaulFraOSAA, lol
[20:07] <grouperguy> its not maintained but does that mean its not wise to install?
[20:07] <ogra_> uh
[20:07] <ogra_> why was that page never deleted
[20:08] <grouperguy> you tell me
[20:08] <ogra_> that died when we started ubuntu touch
[20:08] <dobey> grouperguy: android doesn't even run well on the grouper :-/
[20:08] <ogra_> well, at least there is a red disclaimer at the top
[20:09] <ogra_> "we strongly urge users to re-flash to Raring 13.04"
[20:09]  * ogra_ grins
[20:09] <dobey> grouperguy: the hardware/drivers are not very good, at least for video, so it's not usable to attmpt getting ubuntu on it
[20:10] <grouperguy> ahh man ;_; what can I do with my grouper
[20:10] <ogra_> install an android image
[20:11] <ogra_> i guess thats about the only option
[20:11] <ogra_> or create something yourself ... from scratch
[20:11] <Guest22379> Hi all I've a driver question, should a Realtek usb gb ethernet adaptor work with Ubuntu Touch?
[20:11] <grouperguy> yeah I updated to the latest cyanogenmod but its super slow
[20:11] <dobey> grouperguy: use it to tan your chin
[20:12] <grouperguy> ok sorry for buggy you guys
[20:12] <dobey> grouperguy: i have a grouper too. yeah android is slow on it
[20:12] <grouperguy> dobey: hehe I first have to shave my neck
[20:12] <dobey> grouperguy: but ubuntu was much worse off at the time we stopped supporting it, after we switched to mir from surfaceflinger
[20:13] <dobey> Guest22379: probably not. there are very few drivers built into the kernel
[20:13] <grouperguy> so ubuntu touch was using mir?
[20:13] <dobey> yes, ubuntu uses mir on phones/tablets
[20:13] <Guest22379> Can i add some generic android driver?
[20:14] <grouperguy> any idea why they didnt implent it in 16.04?
[20:14] <dobey> grouperguy: implement what?
[20:14] <dobey> unity8 is not ready to replace unity7 on the standard PC ISO images
[20:14] <grouperguy> I mean add mir to 16.04 by default
[20:14] <grouperguy> ok
[20:14] <grouperguy> thanks dobey
[20:15] <dobey> Guest22379: no; you'd have to build a custom kernel probably
[20:15] <grouperguy> I will leave you guys and install some other buggy android on my grouper
[20:15] <grouperguy> bye
[20:18] <Guest22379> is there an outline anywhere of adding drivers to ubuntu touchM
[20:21] <dobey> Guest22379: porting guide in the topic describes how to build kernels and such
[20:21] <Guest22379> I saw a presentation slide-deck from a couple of years ago and it looked like the drivers where mostly in the lxe container pretending to be androidm or is that out of date?
[20:21] <dobey> Guest22379: you'd need to get the tree for your device, and change the kernel config for it, then rebuild
[20:22] <PaulFraOSAA> Why is it that every mir distrib must do their own QML library? I mean, I code in Qt for Linux, when running that on my android I can just run it, Jolla forced me to use QML, fair enough but they also wanted me to use their own (propriatary) stuff. Now Ubuntu touch has all these Ubuntu QML only libraries. IMHO it kinda defeats the whole point: that
[20:22] <PaulFraOSAA>  I can code once and distribute to all platforms with no difference in my code.
[20:23] <dobey> because then all the OSes would look the same and be ugly
[20:23] <dobey> what's the point of that
[20:26] <PaulFraOSAA> dobey: No, thats the point of QML (and Qt BTW) everyone can style their buttons so that windows buttons, mac buttons, android buttons, jolla "buttons" and ubuntu "buttons" would look different. Even KDE and Gnome buttons could be made to look different but in my QML file I'd only have to write "include QtQuick 2.0; Button..."
[20:26] <Guest22379> thanks dobey i'll give it a go, I imagine it'll invalidate my warranty :/
[20:26] <PaulFraOSAA> Well QtQuick.Controls 2.0 actually but still
[20:27] <ogra_> thats more about design princples though
[20:27] <dobey> PaulFraOSAA: it's not just about look. it's about interaction as well
[20:27] <ogra_> (teh ubuntu sauce on top)
[20:27] <dobey> and you can't "theme" interactions
[20:28] <PaulFraOSAA> No, but you _can_ layer that on top of a themed skin
[20:28] <dobey> sigh, i hate html/css/js
[20:28] <dobey> yes, you have to write new widgets
[20:28] <dobey> and then people have to use those widgets
[20:28] <dobey> :)
[20:29] <dobey> and well, the ubuntu bits are not proprietary. they are open source. so you could use them on android too i guess, if you ship them with your app there
[20:29] <PaulFraOSAA> If I'd want to use the drag-from-the-bottom menu from ubuntu or the drag-from-the-top menu from Jolla, I'd have to handle that, but I could still have a common part that was built up using just .Controls stuff
[20:29] <dobey> and you still can
[20:30] <ogra_> if you feel like you can
[20:30] <ogra_> (add a comma where appropriate)
[20:30] <dobey> that's what Loader{} is for, right?
[20:31] <PaulFraOSAA> Hmm, I might still be too disappointed with the Jolla stuff, haven't taken the ubuntu SDK for a spin yet to be honest, I was just seeing a trend...
[20:32] <PaulFraOSAA> Well tomorow is a latter day, maybe I'll fire up some hello worlds and see what it is al about
[20:52] <mzanetti> ogra_, yes
[20:52] <mzanetti> ogra_, can't give a time estimate though
[21:26] <mr_rcollins> Do SDL apps work in a chroot?
[21:29] <mcphail> mr_rcollins: sdl is tricky. SDL2 works with Mir, but the default version which ships with Ubuntu 15.04+PPA (i.e. on the phone) doesn't work properly
[21:29] <ngamradt> Hello, I just received my Ubuntu M10 tablet
[21:30] <mr_rcollins> That's too bad, I wanted to run Atari800 on my M10. :-)
[21:30] <ngamradt> I updated to the 10.1 version of the OTA
[21:30] <mr_rcollins> ngamradt, welcome to the club!
[21:30] <mr_rcollins> I'm still learning, got mine at lunchtime.
[21:31] <ngamradt> Thanks, mr_rcollins
[21:31] <ngamradt> I have some general questions
[21:31] <mcphail> mr_rcollins: if you pinch the verison of SDL2 from some of the apps on the store (such as my bg1 app) you might be able to coax an SDL2 app into working
[21:32]  * k1l gets jealous on all the guys with the m10
[21:32] <ngamradt> Do the phone/tablet releases come out at regular releases like desktop?
[21:33] <mr_rcollins> mcphail, I'll attempt it soon. Learning what all libertine is about.
[21:33] <mcphail> ngamradt: updated system release come out every few weeks
[21:33] <ngamradt> Also, for those with the M10. Did anyone else have trouble with the location services after the upgrade to 10.1?
[21:33] <mr_rcollins> I turned it off, it kept "flickering"
[21:34] <mcphail> mr_rcollins: I haven't explored libertine yet
[21:34] <troyready> I also had the flickering issue; seemed to go away after reboot
[21:34] <troyready> Then I just disabled gps
[21:35] <ngamradt> will there be a build based on 16.04 soon?
[21:36] <mr_rcollins> I had just restarted, and it does look like it's working now.
[21:36] <ngamradt> So it appears others are having the flickering issue too. Glad to know that it isn't just my hardware
[21:38] <ngamradt> Troyready: The flickering issue came back for me after  reboot, unfortunately.
[21:40] <ngamradt> I assume this is the best place to come to fir the latest phone/tablet news/questions?
[21:43] <ngamradt> I logged out by mistake.
[21:43] <mr_rcollins> :-)
[21:47] <ngamradt> Is there a feature roadmap for Ubuntu Touch somewhere
[21:52] <ngamradt> Okay, I have to sign off for now. Thanks for all the information so far.
[21:52] <mariogrip> dobey: They should be out later today or tomorrow :)
[22:54] <qorrect> just got me M10
[22:54] <qorrect> my*
[22:55] <qorrect> trying to figure out how to enable write mode so that I can download some development tools, but virtual box can't see my tablet for some reason, is there any other way to enable apt-get and friends ?
[22:55] <troyready> nice -- welcome qorrect
[22:55] <qorrect> thx! :D
[22:57] <troyready> qorrect: the better thing to look into is setting up a chroot and/or using libertine
[22:57] <qorrect> ok thanks I'll look at those
[22:58] <qorrect> gonna try a live cd and see if it will see the device, brb rebooting
[23:22] <bregma> I wouldn't use Libertine until after the OTA 11 update, it's still missing a few pieces to get it out of preview mode -- they're in the queue for OTA 11
[23:23] <Acou_Bass> bregma: will libertine actually be in OTA 11 then? on all builds or just -pd ones?
[23:58] <bregma> Acou_Bass, libertine is in the Ubuntu archives, we're targeting it to be in all builds at some point in the nearish future (including the desktop ISO), but I don't have an actual OTA when that will happen
[23:59] <bregma> probably not until after OTA 11
[23:59] <Acou_Bass> ahh cool