/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/04/23/#snappy.txt

=== mcphail_ is now known as mcphail
=== chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk
mcphailOn 16.04 desktop, can snaps only be installed locally (using "snap install blah") rather than from the store (using "snappy install blah")?08:12
* mcphail wants a neat way to install kyrofa's owncloud snap08:15
thomas25Hi13:53
thomas25I download a snappy image from here http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/all-snaps/13:53
thomas25But i'm a little stuck then.13:54
thomas25I would like to clone snapcraft repo13:54
thomas25However I need git13:54
thomas25Since I can't use apt-get install and "snap find" has a limited number of snaps I'm not sure how I can do anything.13:55
thomas25maybe i missed something ?13:55
oparozthomas25, see if you can enable classic mode13:56
oparozthat gives you a shell with access to standard tools13:56
thomas25So today I can't have a minimum ubuntu core 'working' ?13:57
thomas25With read only partition and no use of apt-get.13:58
ali1234thomas25: such a thing wouldn't make any sense... how you going to use git when it is sandboxed?14:06
ali1234classic mode exists specifically for doing development because you can't do development when each of your tools is in it's own sandbox14:06
ali1234i could be wrong but i think classic mode is more or less just a snap that has everything (via apt) inside one sandbox14:07
thomas25ali1234: That makes sense ^^. Thank you14:08
thomas25How do you enter classic mode ?14:09
thomas25I'm not sure my image give me that possibility.14:11
ali1234not sure14:11
oparozsnappy enable-classic14:11
ali1234let me read my logs14:12
oparozif that still works, then you can do snappy shell classic14:12
thomas25No binary "snappy" only "snap" on my image, and no such option as described here https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy-dev-website/blob/master/src/versioned/guides-and-reference/release/build-apps/setup.md14:13
oparoztry with snap then?14:14
oparozIt's been renamed14:14
ali1234looks like the old classic mode was removed14:14
ali1234will be replaced by an actual snap one day?14:15
thomas25So for now, no "developer mode" ?14:16
ali1234yeah looks like it14:16
ali1234seems like classic-mode wasn't actually a snap, it used most of the same tech but could not be updated like one14:17
oparozWell it depends, if it's for a personal project, you can use older images14:17
ali1234so i guess they want to turn it into a proper snap14:18
oparozthe images in the obsolete folder still have classic14:18
thomas25oparoz: Yeah it is just to understand and discover snappy.14:18
thomas25oparoz: ok thanks, i'll try it then.14:19
oparozthomas25, use the old images then, but other things have also changed, such as how to set up policies14:19
ali1234the older images have different problems though14:19
thomas25Do you know if an alpha release or something is planned ?14:23
ali1234i dont see anything on the mailing list about it14:23
oparozThey're hard at work trying to release something, yes14:23
oparozBest to come during business hours to get some answers I think14:24
thomas25yeah probably ^^14:24
thomas25I will see next week. Thanks for the replies.14:25
oparoz👍14:25
thomas25An other question, how the configuration file are handled ?15:01
thomas25If it is in the snap it would be read only.15:02
thomas25So how to modify it ?15:02
thomas25I heard about hard link however I tried the "mosquitto" snap present in the snapcraft repository, but it seems there are no writable file available for "mosquitto.conf".15:19
ovalseven8Hello - heard of the new "Snap package". Which packages are available? Is there an official Ubuntu repository?15:49
thomas25If you just want to test the snap packages, you should try the ubuntu 16.04 lts but there are not a lot of packages by default however.15:50
thomas25But you can build some with snapcraft.15:51
ovalseven8thomas25: Yes. My question is - which packages can you install by default? Will there come new packages or how does it work15:51
ovalseven8If I create a snap for a software, how can I make it that normal people can install it on 16.04?15:52
thomas25Using "snap find" you have 14 snaps available15:55
thomas25Like "ubuntu-clock-app"15:55
ovalseven8thomas25: Yes, but how can I add new snap software?15:56
thomas25There is a store where you can probably find more package (you need authentication)15:56
thomas25But not sure , I never tried15:56
thomas25But I don't know when more package will be added to the 'default' ones15:57
thomas25See https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/tree/master/examples15:58
thomas25You can build snap using these examples15:59
thomas25It is very easy15:59
thomas25Just run "snapcraft" in "webchat" for example15:59
thomas25Then "snap install" will do the job.16:00
ovalseven8thomas25: I am just curious how the distribution of snap software will work16:00
ovalseven8Who decides which snap apps will be available by default and so on16:00
thomas25If your asking if canonical will check every snap I don't know.16:02
thomas25Since it is "contained" I don't think so16:02
thomas25But I really don't know.16:02
ovalseven8thomas25: I see, thanks anyway!16:03
thomas25Come asking again Monday you will probably have more and better answers16:04
dakerovalseven8: a snap is checked via automated checks once you upload it to the store16:08
ovalseven8daker: Do you have a link to the store?16:08
dakersome checks needs manuals checking16:08
dakerhttps://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/16:09
ovalseven8daker: And everybody with 16.04 installed will have access to the uploaded packages?16:09
dakerovalseven8: yes16:10
dakerapproved packages16:10
thomas25daker: Do you know what kind of tests are performed ?16:12
dakerthomas25: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~click-reviewers/click-reviewers-tools/trunk/files/head:/clickreviews/16:14
thomas25daker: Thanks16:15
thomas25daker: Do you know how configuration files are handled ?16:17
ovalseven8What about snap security? Is there an automatic check if they are signed or how will be checked that everything that is downloaded (for example github) is ok?16:19
dakerovalseven8: i guess snappy takes care of that16:25
dakerovalseven8: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/blob/master/store/snap_remote_repo.go#L5316:28
ovalseven8daker: Mh, I don't really understand16:29
dakerthe store provides the checksum of the snap you uploaded, then snappy performs a checksum of the downloaded snap somewhere in the code to compare if nothing happened16:30
ovalseven8daker: But I don't see the point. If I can manipulate the download, I can also manipulate the checksum check, no?16:32
dakerovalseven8: maybe try to make a POC for that :)16:39
ovalseven8Snap packages seems to be interesting. But I guess I will deal with it when more time is passed and I have more time16:40
ovalseven8It will be very time consuming if you deal with it the very first time, I guess16:41
ovalseven8Additionally, there will be more documentation in the future, I hope. At the moment, there is not too much info16:41
ogra_As long as you use snapcraft, the lerning curve is pretty low imho16:44
ovalseven8ogra_: There is only snapcraft?16:45
ogra_That is what you should use, yeah16:46
ogra_Packaging means to create a single yaml file once... The rest is done fully automatic16:47
ovalseven8ogra_: The .snap package contains the binary, right?16:48
ogra_A snap package is a readonly squashfs file that contains all binaries of your project, yes16:49
dakerogra_: hi, did you have chance to work on the wifi firmware for the rpi ?16:50
ovalseven8ogra_: So, everythign will be statically linked, right?16:50
ogra_daker, nope, had to do some disaster recovery on release day16:51
ogra_ovalsend, no, why would it ?16:51
dakerogra_: it doesn't work on the rpi3 too ?16:52
ogra_you indeed *can* statically link if you feel like... Up to you... by defaukt snapcraft just pulls deb packages from the archive for the defined dependencies.16:52
ogra_(and puts them inside your snap)16:53
ovalseven8ogra_: I don't understand the concept completely yet, sorry16:53
ogra_daker too ?16:53
dakeri mean the wifi :)16:54
ogra_there is no wifi on the pi2 ;)16:54
ogra_the pi3 firmware will be added with an SRU and eventually end up in the kernel snap16:55
dakerogra_: i use the wifi dongle but it's didn't managed to get it detected16:55
dakera*16:55
dakeri see you were talking about the pi3 when speaking about the firmware16:56
ogra_Well, we install the normal linux-firmware package16:56
ogra_and the sub drivers should all be enabled16:57
ogra_usb16:57
dakerthe same wifi dongle works with raspibian and other distros16:57
ogra_I.e. it should not work any different from any Ubuntu desktop install16:58
ogra_if it works on desktop but not on the pi2 thats a snappy bug indeed, else just an Ubuntu one..16:58
dakerit works on Ubuntu16:59
ogra_Well, then file a bug please16:59
ogra_(I know that raspbian patches a lot of non free ralink stuff into their kernel, so thats not really a metric)17:00
ogra_... but if it works on desktop thats clearly a bug17:01
dakerBus 002 Device 004: ID 148f:2070 Ralink Technology, Corp. RT2070 Wireless Adapter17:01
ogra_and you are sure that works on desktop ?17:05
ogra_(the ralink statically devices are definitely shaky without the driver from the ralink site)17:05
ogra_s/statically/sta/17:06
ogra_(silly autocompletion on the tablet)17:06
dakerogra_: well it gets the wifi networks17:10
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
dakerwell it works17:13
dakerit connects to the wifi but i am seeing timeouts17:16
dakerieee80211 phy1: rt2800usb_entry_txstatus_timeout: Warning - TX status timeout for entry 7 in queue 217:17
ovalseven8Hi again. Question: A statically linked .snap package makes sense but I don't see a reason for dynamically linked binaries17:35
ovalseven8The advantage of dynamic linking is less disk space. But because snap distributes every single dependency, this is not an advantage anymore17:36
ogra_daker, yeah thats what I mean, the in-kernel driver usually isn't stable17:36
ovalseven8Can someone explain me, please?17:36
mcphailovalseven8: it is usually easier to create dynamically linked apps, particularly if you're just pulling pre-built dependencies17:37
ogra_you can use statically linked libs if you feel like17:37
ogra_but as daker said... It is easier to just use existing binaries17:37
ogra_err... *as mcphail said... Sorry17:40
daker:D17:41
ovalseven8Which dependencies have I add to? Even packages that are installed on Ubuntu by default?17:41
ogra_Whatever your binary needs17:41
ovalseven8And if a dependency will change (security update), will I have to upload the new .snap package?17:42
* ogra_ would suggest to just install snapcraft and the snapcraft-examples packages and play with the examples17:42
ogra_yes17:42
ovalseven8Oh my god. So, a program with Qt5 and such dependencies will need an update very often17:43
ogra_as often as the packages in the archive get security updates17:44
ogra_for qt thats probably rather rare17:44
ogra_(and if your app is confined some security issues are actually irrelevant, really depends what issues get fixed17:46
ogra_)17:46
ogra_(and how your app is run)17:46
ali1234ogra_: what's the deal with classic mode on 16.04? is it planned to convert it into a normal snap?17:48
ogra_I don't think so17:49
ali1234so it's just gone forever?17:49
ogra_nah17:49
ovalseven8I mean, creating a .snap for a big gui desktop application will be very complicated17:49
ogra_only temporary... Like snap config17:49
ali1234why can't it be implemented as a normal snap btw?17:50
ogra_ovalseven8, well, fir fox will most likely switch completely to snap17:50
ogra_*firefox17:50
ogra_ali1234, because yo want everything o be rw17:51
ali1234okay but snaps must support rw to some extent. like what if i make a ftp server where people can upload things... you want that to be rw too17:51
ogra_The point of classic is to have a rw playground for apt... shipping that as ro squashfs makes no sense17:52
ovalseven8Unfortunately, the examples for snapcraft on GitHub are just very easy programs :/17:52
ali1234it would make more sense on a filesystem that supports snapshots17:53
ali1234hmm SNAPshots17:53
ogra_snaps have a rw dir... Installing an apt chroot/container would mean to copy the whole ro snap into the rw dir17:53
ogra_that would be totally wasteful17:53
ogra_what we really only want is to have the container ship the bits we removed...as rw overlay17:54
ali1234yes.. overlay filesystem backed by a ro snapshot17:55
ogra_not over rlay fs17:55
ovalseven8The snapcraft docs are poor at the moment17:55
ali1234no, overlayfs sucks17:55
ali1234but maybe btrfs17:55
ogra_Nah17:55
ali1234zfs?17:56
thomas25probably17:56
ogra_btrfs sucks even most more :p17:56
ogra_-most17:56
ogra_silly autocomplete17:56
ogra_zfs on embedded ?17:56
ali1234sure why not17:56
thomas25Canonical is targeting "big" embedded device17:57
ali1234embedded is meaningless when you talk about running ubuntu on it, it's already many times bigger than a real embedded system17:57
ogra_dunno, I wouldn't want to give half my ram to a feature that I can also get cheaper in other ways17:57
ogra_snappy is focused on embedded17:57
ogra_it is designed for it17:57
dakerogra_: Sagem XG-76NA 802.11bg doesn't work on snappy :/17:58
ogra_daker but on desktop ?17:58
ovalseven8Am I right that I have to add parts step by step in snapcraft? So, compile part1 that is needed for part2 and so on?18:00
thomas25About zfs/ubuntu http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-is-delighted-to-collaborate-with-nexenta-on-optimizing-zfs-for-ubuntu-502806.shtml18:00
dakerit works18:00
ogra_daker, file bugs :)18:00
dakerogra_: against what ?18:00
ogra_ovalseven8 NT necessarily18:01
ogra_not18:01
ogra_daker see topic ;)18:01
dakerok18:01
ogra_feel free to assign to me, I'll get it in the right hands then18:02
ogra_(if you can)18:02
ogra_ovalseven8, if you need an order you can define one, but I guests the majority of snaps don't need it18:03
ogra_guess18:03
dakerogra_: i can't assign it (bug 1574075)18:17
ubottubug 1574075 in Snappy "Snappy does not detect Sagem wifi dongle" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157407518:17
ogra_Thanks18:18
ali1234so how do i get started with snappy 2.0?18:19
ogra_easiest is to have a denial desktop install ;)18:20
ogra_xenial18:20
ali1234my app only runs on raspberry pi18:21
ogra_then you can grab an experimental image from mvos all-snaps dir18:21
ali1234is the partition expansion fixed?18:21
ogra_since ages :)18:21
ali1234okay. does it work on pi 3 yet?18:22
ogra_yep, but we don have a dedicated image yet18:22
ali1234what does that mean?18:22
ali1234why do you need a dedicated image if it works?18:22
ogra_that you nedd to build it yourself18:23
ali1234i see, so ubuntu-device-flash?18:23
ogra_Yes, the latest one from mvo18:23
ogra_with the canonical-pi3 gadget18:23
ogra_(from the store)18:23
ali1234the store?18:24
ogra_Yes18:25
ali1234what store?18:28
ogra_snap store.... Where u-d-f pulls its. Snaps18:29
ali1234expected a gadget snaps: snap not found18:30
* ogra_ needs to rush out18:31
ogra_I guess your command is wrong then...18:32
ali1234i copied it from the shell script :)18:32
ogra_The options changed slightly18:32
ali1234make-rpi2-all-snap.sh18:32
ogra_series is 16 now instead of rolling18:32
ogra_No idea what that is18:32
ali1234okay it's doing something18:32
ali1234http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/all-snaps/make-rpi2-all-snap.sh18:33
ogra_Ah, never seen that18:33
ogra_anyway... Out18:33
dduffeyI have a snappy 16 image I made last week.  Now when I boot with that image (even fresh) I'm not able to do a snappy search18:43
dduffeyit says "no such command"18:43
dduffeysorry "Unknown command"18:43
dduffeywililupy, ^^^18:46
ali1234it's called snap now19:18
ali1234and snappy automatically updates itself19:18
dduffeyali1234, thanks, how do I snap install webdm?19:31
ali1234no idea19:31
dduffeyeven "snap install" says "Unkown command" install|search19:32
ali1234i haven't even managed to make an image that boots yet19:35
ogra_ali1234, whats the issue with booting ?19:47
ogra_(note that serial output is currently not available on pi2)19:48
ogra_will be fixed on monday19:48
ali1234i don't know what the issue is19:49
ali1234because it doesn't boot19:49
ali1234maybe i am trying the wrong ip address19:50
ogra_defintely boots here...19:51
ogra_on both pi's19:51
ali1234okay i am in19:51
ogra_good19:51
ali1234why is the led blinking constantly?19:51
ogra_heartbeat...19:52
ali1234they are backwards19:52
ogra_shows you the system is alive19:52
ali1234disk activity makes the power led blink19:52
ali1234heartbeat is on the disk activity led19:52
ogra_worth a bug I guess19:53
ali1234i actually asked the foundation developers if this was possible once and they said no19:53
ali1234https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/157410319:57
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1574103 in Snappy "Raspberry Pi 2 image LEDs are swapped." [Undecided,New]19:57
ali1234so now what? install snapcraft on my desktop?19:59
ogra_To build for arm ?20:00
ogra_No20:00
ali1234yes20:00
ogra_only native20:00
ali1234oh.20:00
ali1234what if i install ubuntu-mate on my other raspberry pi and then install snapcraft on that?20:01
ogra_scp an ubuntu-core (not snappy) tarball to the device and use it as chroot20:02
ogra_Yeah, mate works too indeed20:02
ali1234 /home = /wrtable/user-data?20:10
ogra_Kind of, yeah20:13
ali1234okay i chrooted. apt can't find snapcraft20:16
ogra_copied resolv.conf ?20:17
ali1234yes20:17
ogra_universe enabled ?20:17
ali1234no20:17
ogra_there you go20:17
ali1234debconf is unhappy because it cannot show a dialog20:21
ogra_It only tells you the frontend isn't installed, doesn't mean it would use it ;)20:29
ali1234okay i have a snapcraft.yaml20:30
ali1234it's downloading cmake stuff...20:32
ali1234it failed to build because no C++ compiler20:34
ali1234is it a problem that i am running snapcraft as root?20:36
ali1234okay it still didn't work because no pkg-config20:38
ali1234why do some snaps put build-packages in the top level, but others put it under parts:20:39
ali1234i wish debs would have consistent names20:47
ali1234why is it libgstreamer1.0-dev but libgstrtspserver-1.0-dev20:47
ali1234wow it actually attempted to compile a source file that time20:53
ali1234/root/piroverd/parts/daemon/src/i2cdevice.cpp:38:43: error: ‘ioctl’ was not declared in this scope20:53
ali1234seriously?20:53
ali1234how do i make snapcraft redownload the git repository after i made changes?20:58
ali1234i found the repo and pulled manually20:59
ali1234okay now i got /root/piroverd/parts/daemon/src/i2cdevice.cpp:54:58: error: ‘i2c_smbus_read_byte_data’ was not declared in this scope21:00
ali1234this is that thing where's there's two different versions of linux/i2c-dev.h21:01
ali1234finally it built21:06
ali1234now i get "make: *** No rule to make target 'install'.  Stop."21:06
ali1234this is what i've got so far http://paste.ubuntu.com/16015163/21:09
ali1234let's see if it can build gst-rpicamsrc21:12
ali1234configure: error: Raspberry Pi files not found in /opt/vc/include21:13
ali1234nope21:14
ali1234well, i give up21:14
ali1234all of my software uses the videocore libraries heavily21:15
DomiHello, where do I get the latest builds for rpi 3?21:18
ali1234you have to build the image yourself for rpi321:18
ali1234http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/all-snaps/ubuntu-device-flash21:18
ali1234then do something like this:21:19
ali1234sudo ./ubuntu-device-flash --verbose core 16 -o  rpi2-all-snap.img --channel stable --enable-ssh --gadget canonical-pi3  --kernel canonical-pi3-linux --os ubuntu-core21:19
ali1234except that doesn't work... snap not found21:20
Domithank you. Is there any documentation on this?21:21
ali1234nope21:21
ali1234https://www.mail-archive.com/snappy-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01307.html21:21
ali1234that looks out of date21:22
ali1234earlier ogra told me to use canonical-pi3 gadget21:23
Domihttp://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/all-snaps/rpi3/ what is with this images?21:23
ali1234i dunno21:23
ali1234earlier ogra told me there are no images :)21:23
ali1234i wouldn't trust that to actually work21:23
Domiok is there anyone who is able to help me? Or can i ask someone?21:25
ali1234ogra :)21:25
ali1234but i think he's hiding21:25
ali1234i'd help you if i could, but i have abslutely no idea what i am doing21:26
ali1234this channel has more activity during european business hours21:27
Domiok thank you for your help I will try it tomorrow.21:46
=== oparoz_ is now known as oparoz
oparozIs there a deb we can use to include extra dynamic linkers?22:39
oparozI've got an arm binary using the wrong one and symlinking works, but that's not possible in Snappy22:39

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