=== mcphail_ is now known as mcphail === chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk [08:12] On 16.04 desktop, can snaps only be installed locally (using "snap install blah") rather than from the store (using "snappy install blah")? [08:15] * mcphail wants a neat way to install kyrofa's owncloud snap [13:53] Hi [13:53] I download a snappy image from here http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/all-snaps/ [13:54] But i'm a little stuck then. [13:54] I would like to clone snapcraft repo [13:54] However I need git [13:55] Since I can't use apt-get install and "snap find" has a limited number of snaps I'm not sure how I can do anything. [13:55] maybe i missed something ? [13:56] thomas25, see if you can enable classic mode [13:56] that gives you a shell with access to standard tools [13:57] So today I can't have a minimum ubuntu core 'working' ? [13:58] With read only partition and no use of apt-get. [14:06] thomas25: such a thing wouldn't make any sense... how you going to use git when it is sandboxed? [14:06] classic mode exists specifically for doing development because you can't do development when each of your tools is in it's own sandbox [14:07] i could be wrong but i think classic mode is more or less just a snap that has everything (via apt) inside one sandbox [14:08] ali1234: That makes sense ^^. Thank you [14:09] How do you enter classic mode ? [14:11] I'm not sure my image give me that possibility. [14:11] not sure [14:11] snappy enable-classic [14:12] let me read my logs [14:12] if that still works, then you can do snappy shell classic [14:13] No binary "snappy" only "snap" on my image, and no such option as described here https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy-dev-website/blob/master/src/versioned/guides-and-reference/release/build-apps/setup.md [14:14] try with snap then? [14:14] It's been renamed [14:14] looks like the old classic mode was removed [14:15] will be replaced by an actual snap one day? [14:16] So for now, no "developer mode" ? [14:16] yeah looks like it [14:17] seems like classic-mode wasn't actually a snap, it used most of the same tech but could not be updated like one [14:17] Well it depends, if it's for a personal project, you can use older images [14:18] so i guess they want to turn it into a proper snap [14:18] the images in the obsolete folder still have classic [14:18] oparoz: Yeah it is just to understand and discover snappy. [14:19] oparoz: ok thanks, i'll try it then. [14:19] thomas25, use the old images then, but other things have also changed, such as how to set up policies [14:19] the older images have different problems though [14:23] Do you know if an alpha release or something is planned ? [14:23] i dont see anything on the mailing list about it [14:23] They're hard at work trying to release something, yes [14:24] Best to come during business hours to get some answers I think [14:24] yeah probably ^^ [14:25] I will see next week. Thanks for the replies. [14:25] 👍 [15:01] An other question, how the configuration file are handled ? [15:02] If it is in the snap it would be read only. [15:02] So how to modify it ? [15:19] I heard about hard link however I tried the "mosquitto" snap present in the snapcraft repository, but it seems there are no writable file available for "mosquitto.conf". [15:49] Hello - heard of the new "Snap package". Which packages are available? Is there an official Ubuntu repository? [15:50] If you just want to test the snap packages, you should try the ubuntu 16.04 lts but there are not a lot of packages by default however. [15:51] But you can build some with snapcraft. [15:51] thomas25: Yes. My question is - which packages can you install by default? Will there come new packages or how does it work [15:52] If I create a snap for a software, how can I make it that normal people can install it on 16.04? [15:55] Using "snap find" you have 14 snaps available [15:55] Like "ubuntu-clock-app" [15:56] thomas25: Yes, but how can I add new snap software? [15:56] There is a store where you can probably find more package (you need authentication) [15:56] But not sure , I never tried [15:57] But I don't know when more package will be added to the 'default' ones [15:58] See https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/tree/master/examples [15:59] You can build snap using these examples [15:59] It is very easy [15:59] Just run "snapcraft" in "webchat" for example [16:00] Then "snap install" will do the job. [16:00] thomas25: I am just curious how the distribution of snap software will work [16:00] Who decides which snap apps will be available by default and so on [16:02] If your asking if canonical will check every snap I don't know. [16:02] Since it is "contained" I don't think so [16:02] But I really don't know. [16:03] thomas25: I see, thanks anyway! [16:04] Come asking again Monday you will probably have more and better answers [16:08] ovalseven8: a snap is checked via automated checks once you upload it to the store [16:08] daker: Do you have a link to the store? [16:08] some checks needs manuals checking [16:09] https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/ [16:09] daker: And everybody with 16.04 installed will have access to the uploaded packages? [16:10] ovalseven8: yes [16:10] approved packages [16:12] daker: Do you know what kind of tests are performed ? [16:14] thomas25: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~click-reviewers/click-reviewers-tools/trunk/files/head:/clickreviews/ [16:15] daker: Thanks [16:17] daker: Do you know how configuration files are handled ? [16:19] What about snap security? Is there an automatic check if they are signed or how will be checked that everything that is downloaded (for example github) is ok? [16:25] ovalseven8: i guess snappy takes care of that [16:28] ovalseven8: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/blob/master/store/snap_remote_repo.go#L53 [16:29] daker: Mh, I don't really understand [16:30] the store provides the checksum of the snap you uploaded, then snappy performs a checksum of the downloaded snap somewhere in the code to compare if nothing happened [16:32] daker: But I don't see the point. If I can manipulate the download, I can also manipulate the checksum check, no? [16:39] ovalseven8: maybe try to make a POC for that :) [16:40] Snap packages seems to be interesting. But I guess I will deal with it when more time is passed and I have more time [16:41] It will be very time consuming if you deal with it the very first time, I guess [16:41] Additionally, there will be more documentation in the future, I hope. At the moment, there is not too much info [16:44] As long as you use snapcraft, the lerning curve is pretty low imho [16:45] ogra_: There is only snapcraft? [16:46] That is what you should use, yeah [16:47] Packaging means to create a single yaml file once... The rest is done fully automatic [16:48] ogra_: The .snap package contains the binary, right? [16:49] A snap package is a readonly squashfs file that contains all binaries of your project, yes [16:50] ogra_: hi, did you have chance to work on the wifi firmware for the rpi ? [16:50] ogra_: So, everythign will be statically linked, right? [16:51] daker, nope, had to do some disaster recovery on release day [16:51] ovalsend, no, why would it ? [16:52] ogra_: it doesn't work on the rpi3 too ? [16:52] you indeed *can* statically link if you feel like... Up to you... by defaukt snapcraft just pulls deb packages from the archive for the defined dependencies. [16:53] (and puts them inside your snap) [16:53] ogra_: I don't understand the concept completely yet, sorry [16:53] daker too ? [16:54] i mean the wifi :) [16:54] there is no wifi on the pi2 ;) [16:55] the pi3 firmware will be added with an SRU and eventually end up in the kernel snap [16:55] ogra_: i use the wifi dongle but it's didn't managed to get it detected [16:55] a* [16:56] i see you were talking about the pi3 when speaking about the firmware [16:56] Well, we install the normal linux-firmware package [16:57] and the sub drivers should all be enabled [16:57] usb [16:57] the same wifi dongle works with raspibian and other distros [16:58] I.e. it should not work any different from any Ubuntu desktop install [16:58] if it works on desktop but not on the pi2 thats a snappy bug indeed, else just an Ubuntu one.. [16:59] it works on Ubuntu [16:59] Well, then file a bug please [17:00] (I know that raspbian patches a lot of non free ralink stuff into their kernel, so thats not really a metric) [17:01] ... but if it works on desktop thats clearly a bug [17:01] Bus 002 Device 004: ID 148f:2070 Ralink Technology, Corp. RT2070 Wireless Adapter [17:05] and you are sure that works on desktop ? [17:05] (the ralink statically devices are definitely shaky without the driver from the ralink site) [17:06] s/statically/sta/ [17:06] (silly autocompletion on the tablet) [17:10] ogra_: well it gets the wifi networks === JanC_ is now known as JanC [17:13] well it works [17:16] it connects to the wifi but i am seeing timeouts [17:17] ieee80211 phy1: rt2800usb_entry_txstatus_timeout: Warning - TX status timeout for entry 7 in queue 2 [17:35] Hi again. Question: A statically linked .snap package makes sense but I don't see a reason for dynamically linked binaries [17:36] The advantage of dynamic linking is less disk space. But because snap distributes every single dependency, this is not an advantage anymore [17:36] daker, yeah thats what I mean, the in-kernel driver usually isn't stable [17:36] Can someone explain me, please? [17:37] ovalseven8: it is usually easier to create dynamically linked apps, particularly if you're just pulling pre-built dependencies [17:37] you can use statically linked libs if you feel like [17:37] but as daker said... It is easier to just use existing binaries [17:40] err... *as mcphail said... Sorry [17:41] :D [17:41] Which dependencies have I add to? Even packages that are installed on Ubuntu by default? [17:41] Whatever your binary needs [17:42] And if a dependency will change (security update), will I have to upload the new .snap package? [17:42] * ogra_ would suggest to just install snapcraft and the snapcraft-examples packages and play with the examples [17:42] yes [17:43] Oh my god. So, a program with Qt5 and such dependencies will need an update very often [17:44] as often as the packages in the archive get security updates [17:44] for qt thats probably rather rare [17:46] (and if your app is confined some security issues are actually irrelevant, really depends what issues get fixed [17:46] ) [17:46] (and how your app is run) [17:48] ogra_: what's the deal with classic mode on 16.04? is it planned to convert it into a normal snap? [17:49] I don't think so [17:49] so it's just gone forever? [17:49] nah [17:49] I mean, creating a .snap for a big gui desktop application will be very complicated [17:49] only temporary... Like snap config [17:50] why can't it be implemented as a normal snap btw? [17:50] ovalseven8, well, fir fox will most likely switch completely to snap [17:50] *firefox [17:51] ali1234, because yo want everything o be rw [17:51] okay but snaps must support rw to some extent. like what if i make a ftp server where people can upload things... you want that to be rw too [17:52] The point of classic is to have a rw playground for apt... shipping that as ro squashfs makes no sense [17:52] Unfortunately, the examples for snapcraft on GitHub are just very easy programs :/ [17:53] it would make more sense on a filesystem that supports snapshots [17:53] hmm SNAPshots [17:53] snaps have a rw dir... Installing an apt chroot/container would mean to copy the whole ro snap into the rw dir [17:53] that would be totally wasteful [17:54] what we really only want is to have the container ship the bits we removed...as rw overlay [17:55] yes.. overlay filesystem backed by a ro snapshot [17:55] not over rlay fs [17:55] The snapcraft docs are poor at the moment [17:55] no, overlayfs sucks [17:55] but maybe btrfs [17:55] Nah [17:56] zfs? [17:56] probably [17:56] btrfs sucks even most more :p [17:56] -most [17:56] silly autocomplete [17:56] zfs on embedded ? [17:56] sure why not [17:57] Canonical is targeting "big" embedded device [17:57] embedded is meaningless when you talk about running ubuntu on it, it's already many times bigger than a real embedded system [17:57] dunno, I wouldn't want to give half my ram to a feature that I can also get cheaper in other ways [17:57] snappy is focused on embedded [17:57] it is designed for it [17:58] ogra_: Sagem XG-76NA 802.11bg doesn't work on snappy :/ [17:58] daker but on desktop ? [18:00] Am I right that I have to add parts step by step in snapcraft? So, compile part1 that is needed for part2 and so on? [18:00] About zfs/ubuntu http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-is-delighted-to-collaborate-with-nexenta-on-optimizing-zfs-for-ubuntu-502806.shtml [18:00] it works [18:00] daker, file bugs :) [18:00] ogra_: against what ? [18:01] ovalseven8 NT necessarily [18:01] not [18:01] daker see topic ;) [18:01] ok [18:02] feel free to assign to me, I'll get it in the right hands then [18:02] (if you can) [18:03] ovalseven8, if you need an order you can define one, but I guests the majority of snaps don't need it [18:03] guess [18:17] ogra_: i can't assign it (bug 1574075) [18:17] bug 1574075 in Snappy "Snappy does not detect Sagem wifi dongle" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574075 [18:18] Thanks [18:19] so how do i get started with snappy 2.0? [18:20] easiest is to have a denial desktop install ;) [18:20] xenial [18:21] my app only runs on raspberry pi [18:21] then you can grab an experimental image from mvos all-snaps dir [18:21] is the partition expansion fixed? [18:21] since ages :) [18:22] okay. does it work on pi 3 yet? [18:22] yep, but we don have a dedicated image yet [18:22] what does that mean? [18:22] why do you need a dedicated image if it works? [18:23] that you nedd to build it yourself [18:23] i see, so ubuntu-device-flash? [18:23] Yes, the latest one from mvo [18:23] with the canonical-pi3 gadget [18:23] (from the store) [18:24] the store? [18:25] Yes [18:28] what store? [18:29] snap store.... Where u-d-f pulls its. Snaps [18:30] expected a gadget snaps: snap not found [18:31] * ogra_ needs to rush out [18:32] I guess your command is wrong then... [18:32] i copied it from the shell script :) [18:32] The options changed slightly [18:32] make-rpi2-all-snap.sh [18:32] series is 16 now instead of rolling [18:32] No idea what that is [18:32] okay it's doing something [18:33] http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/all-snaps/make-rpi2-all-snap.sh [18:33] Ah, never seen that [18:33] anyway... Out [18:43] I have a snappy 16 image I made last week. Now when I boot with that image (even fresh) I'm not able to do a snappy search [18:43] it says "no such command" [18:43] sorry "Unknown command" [18:46] wililupy, ^^^ [19:18] it's called snap now [19:18] and snappy automatically updates itself [19:31] ali1234, thanks, how do I snap install webdm? [19:31] no idea [19:32] even "snap install" says "Unkown command" install|search [19:35] i haven't even managed to make an image that boots yet [19:47] ali1234, whats the issue with booting ? [19:48] (note that serial output is currently not available on pi2) [19:48] will be fixed on monday [19:49] i don't know what the issue is [19:49] because it doesn't boot [19:50] maybe i am trying the wrong ip address [19:51] defintely boots here... [19:51] on both pi's [19:51] okay i am in [19:51] good [19:51] why is the led blinking constantly? [19:52] heartbeat... [19:52] they are backwards [19:52] shows you the system is alive [19:52] disk activity makes the power led blink [19:52] heartbeat is on the disk activity led [19:53] worth a bug I guess [19:53] i actually asked the foundation developers if this was possible once and they said no [19:57] https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1574103 [19:57] Launchpad bug 1574103 in Snappy "Raspberry Pi 2 image LEDs are swapped." [Undecided,New] [19:59] so now what? install snapcraft on my desktop? [20:00] To build for arm ? [20:00] No [20:00] yes [20:00] only native [20:00] oh. [20:01] what if i install ubuntu-mate on my other raspberry pi and then install snapcraft on that? [20:02] scp an ubuntu-core (not snappy) tarball to the device and use it as chroot [20:02] Yeah, mate works too indeed [20:10] /home = /wrtable/user-data? [20:13] Kind of, yeah [20:16] okay i chrooted. apt can't find snapcraft [20:17] copied resolv.conf ? [20:17] yes [20:17] universe enabled ? [20:17] no [20:17] there you go [20:21] debconf is unhappy because it cannot show a dialog [20:29] It only tells you the frontend isn't installed, doesn't mean it would use it ;) [20:30] okay i have a snapcraft.yaml [20:32] it's downloading cmake stuff... [20:34] it failed to build because no C++ compiler [20:36] is it a problem that i am running snapcraft as root? [20:38] okay it still didn't work because no pkg-config [20:39] why do some snaps put build-packages in the top level, but others put it under parts: [20:47] i wish debs would have consistent names [20:47] why is it libgstreamer1.0-dev but libgstrtspserver-1.0-dev [20:53] wow it actually attempted to compile a source file that time [20:53] /root/piroverd/parts/daemon/src/i2cdevice.cpp:38:43: error: ‘ioctl’ was not declared in this scope [20:53] seriously? [20:58] how do i make snapcraft redownload the git repository after i made changes? [20:59] i found the repo and pulled manually [21:00] okay now i got /root/piroverd/parts/daemon/src/i2cdevice.cpp:54:58: error: ‘i2c_smbus_read_byte_data’ was not declared in this scope [21:01] this is that thing where's there's two different versions of linux/i2c-dev.h [21:06] finally it built [21:06] now i get "make: *** No rule to make target 'install'. Stop." [21:09] this is what i've got so far http://paste.ubuntu.com/16015163/ [21:12] let's see if it can build gst-rpicamsrc [21:13] configure: error: Raspberry Pi files not found in /opt/vc/include [21:14] nope [21:14] well, i give up [21:15] all of my software uses the videocore libraries heavily [21:18] Hello, where do I get the latest builds for rpi 3? [21:18] you have to build the image yourself for rpi3 [21:18] http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/all-snaps/ubuntu-device-flash [21:19] then do something like this: [21:19] sudo ./ubuntu-device-flash --verbose core 16 -o rpi2-all-snap.img --channel stable --enable-ssh --gadget canonical-pi3 --kernel canonical-pi3-linux --os ubuntu-core [21:20] except that doesn't work... snap not found [21:21] thank you. Is there any documentation on this? [21:21] nope [21:21] https://www.mail-archive.com/snappy-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01307.html [21:22] that looks out of date [21:23] earlier ogra told me to use canonical-pi3 gadget [21:23] http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/all-snaps/rpi3/ what is with this images? [21:23] i dunno [21:23] earlier ogra told me there are no images :) [21:23] i wouldn't trust that to actually work [21:25] ok is there anyone who is able to help me? Or can i ask someone? [21:25] ogra :) [21:25] but i think he's hiding [21:26] i'd help you if i could, but i have abslutely no idea what i am doing [21:27] this channel has more activity during european business hours [21:46] ok thank you for your help I will try it tomorrow. === oparoz_ is now known as oparoz [22:39] Is there a deb we can use to include extra dynamic linkers? [22:39] I've got an arm binary using the wrong one and symlinking works, but that's not possible in Snappy