[01:38] <jrwren> signal is pretty cool.
[04:54] <Scary_Guy> jrwren, yeah but it's linked to the play store, which I don't have and won't support.  fuck google/alphabet
[12:55] <jrwren> you can't get signal outside of play store?  really?  huh.
[14:03] <Scary_Guy> Yeah, people tried to get it on F-Droid and pissed Moxie off.  Here's a prety good rundown https://f-droid.org/forums/topic/redphone-and-textsecure/
[14:06] <Scary_Guy> Silence/SMSSecure is a fork of Singal/TextSecure before they required play services and they just kind of went their own way.  Now Singal doesn't even use SMS AFAIK
[14:07] <Scary_Guy> I get that, but everyone I talk to uses SMS so I need somthing that everyone can use.  The key system is annoying but better than nothing
[14:15] <jrwren> well, that is the difficulty of security right?
[14:16] <jrwren> the lowest common denominator is insecure
[14:17] <Scary_Guy> how so?  I always thought security through obscurity wasn't really secure either
[14:18] <Scary_Guy> as far as SMS goes it's insecure by design though
[14:23] <jrwren> you said you need something that everyone can use.
[14:23] <jrwren> you defined LCD. I pointed that out.
[14:23] <jrwren> given that requirement, you will always use something insecure.
[14:24] <Scary_Guy> I suppose, unless the phone companies implement better standards for SMS
[14:24] <Scary_Guy> https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/11493/how-hard-is-it-to-intercept-sms-two-factor-authentication
[14:25] <Scary_Guy> my big thing is I don't want to rely on the phone company for security either though since they have access to everything
[14:29] <ColonelPanic001> anyone happen to know of a non-crap free oracle client? 0xDBE was nice but isn't free anymore, and SQLDeveloper is kind of... well, I don't care for it.
[14:30] <jrwren> ColonelPanic001: I used to compile perl bindings and use bash and a perl script for my oracle queries. Not joking.
[14:30] <ColonelPanic001> nah, that's not unreasonably really, considering
[14:31] <ColonelPanic001> https://www.jetbrains.com/datagrip/
[14:31] <ColonelPanic001> this looks nice, and the betas I used were very nice, but not free, and I don't think I'd have an easy time getting my boss to pay for it, so meh
[14:32] <ColonelPanic001> I mean, SQLDeveloper works well enough that it's not like I don't have a client, it's just... ugh
[14:33] <ColonelPanic001> stupid ethics. It's free for students and teachers. I have a .edu email, but I'm neither of those.
[14:33] <_stink_> i ended up just using sqlplus
[14:33] <_stink_> but i know you like an IDE
[14:33] <ColonelPanic001> why the hell can something as common as oracle have such shit for clients?
[14:34] <ColonelPanic001> I would have thought it'd at least have something like MySQL Workbench or something
[14:37] <widox> ColonelPanic001: haha, Oracle tools suck all around
[14:37] <ColonelPanic001> they do :\
[14:37] <widox> I use sqldev / sqlplus
[14:37] <widox> sqldev freezes up at least once per day
[14:38] <ColonelPanic001> every 6 months or so I do this cycle of acceptance and eventually coming back to "well maybe if I just ask around again someone found something"
[14:38] <ColonelPanic001> so sometime in the fall expect this again :\
[14:38] <widox> :)
[14:38] <ColonelPanic001> fwiw Datagrip there, I liked.
[14:38] <ColonelPanic001> just not $200 liked
[14:38] <ColonelPanic001> if it were that or nothing I'd ask my boss about it, but meh
[14:39] <widox> ColonelPanic001: ah, someone on my team was using that for a bit (maybe it was a trial?) and it seemed pretty interesting
[14:39] <ColonelPanic001> yeah, I just used the trial
[14:39] <widox> didn't realize it was $200 though
[14:39] <ColonelPanic001> it was called 0xDBE then
[14:39] <ColonelPanic001> and yeah, I liked it
[14:40] <ColonelPanic001> still bloaty crappy java, but nice
[14:42] <widox> ColonelPanic001: not GUI, but have you tried sqlcl? http://www.thatjeffsmith.com/archive/2016/04/new-sqlcl-available-for-download/
[14:43] <widox> supposed to be a more user friendly sqlplus
[14:43] <ColonelPanic001> never heard about it, I'll poke at that
[14:43] <ColonelPanic001> thank you
[14:46] <widox> ColonelPanic001: yw. lmk if you try it, I haven't gotten around to it yet
[14:46] <ColonelPanic001> sure thing
[19:15] <ColonelPanic001> it's not bad
[19:16] <ColonelPanic001> I am a noob with oracle, but in as much as it is something I can do "sql me@PROD" and then just do "select * from things;", nice
[19:16] <ColonelPanic001> still playing around a little though