[03:18] <ahoneybun_> Testing chatter
[03:21] <Kimpunchyoung> Hey
[03:21] <ahoneybun_> Heyo
[03:25] <Kimpunchyoung> How do i install adblock in safari browser (Ubuntu Web Browser) on the ubuntu-touch tablet?
[03:33] <altker128> Hey guys.  Anyone a Meizu Pro 5?
[03:33] <altker128> err, anyone ^ get
[08:07] <iMiksu> anyone has tried ordering meizu pro 5 yet?
[08:08] <saavento> Hola
[08:09] <saavento> OTA 11 will be xenial or still vivid?
[08:13] <popey> saavento: vivid
[08:13] <saavento> oks
[11:05] <mardy> tvoss: hi! now that the debian/control and the -dev.install files are generated, should we remove them from bzr?
[11:08] <tvoss> mardy, we still need them to satisfy the dpkg tools
[11:08] <tvoss> mardy, tried to remove them
[11:33] <ahoneybun> mariogrip, the logo for the website or social media?
[11:33] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: both
[11:33] <ahoneybun> seeing as the website has none
[11:34] <ahoneybun> looking to follow the Ubuntu Icon design?
[11:36] <ahoneybun> heyo willcooke
[11:39] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: yeah, the ubuntu icon design is awesome
[11:39] <ahoneybun> trying to find some kits or something mar
[11:40] <ahoneybun> mariogrip,
[12:36] <gekl> are there already whatsapp users on ubuntu touch like on the bq hd5?
[12:37] <Mubun2bi> The guides on youtube looks so simple compared to this guide: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices      is there an easy guide?
[12:38] <popey> Mubun2bi: what device?
[12:38] <Mubun2bi> Aquaris M10, ubuntu.
[12:39] <popey> Surely it already has Ubuntu on it?
[12:40] <Mubun2bi> yes, but i would like reinstall it
[12:42] <mterry> tedg, the app in question is chatter.robert-ancell_chatter
[12:43] <Mubun2bi> It's does not feel like ubuntu does on desktop, so i would like to install the original androi version
[12:43] <popey> oh, you'd need to speak to bq, we don't provide android images
[12:44] <Mubun2bi> i will do that, but do you have an guide or a hint to google ?
[12:44] <ogra_> (and you likely need a flash tool that re-partitions the device, the ubuntu partitioning differs from the android one)
[12:45] <popey> yeah, speak to bq
[12:45] <ogra_> right
[12:45] <Mubun2bi> no guide or hint?
[12:45] <popey> guide to what?
[12:46] <popey> We tend to only work on ubuntu
[12:46] <popey> so flashing back to android isn't something we tend to do much
[12:46] <Mubun2bi> insalling ubuntu on android devices
[12:46] <popey> you said you wanted to install android?
[12:46] <Mubun2bi> no
[12:46] <Mubun2bi> lol
[12:47] <Mubun2bi> Reinstall ubuntu
[12:47] <ogra_> "<Mubun2bi> It's does not feel like ubuntu does on desktop, so i would like to install the original androi version"
[12:47] <ogra_> sounded like you want to install android :)
[12:47] <ogra_> especially the "so i would like to install the original androi version" part :)
[12:48] <Mubun2bi> I meant the linux ubuntu for android version :)
[12:48] <Mubun2bi> aka android tablets
[12:48] <popey> I don't know what that even means.
[12:48] <Mubun2bi> lol
[12:49] <ogra_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/602035/how-do-i-use-ubuntu-device-flash-with-the-bq-aquaris-e4-5-and-aquaris-e5/602037#602037
[12:49] <ogra_> that might help
[12:49] <Mubun2bi> Thanks
[12:49] <ogra_> but i dont know wherre the recovery.img you need does reside ...
[12:49] <popey> john-mcaleely: might
[12:50] <ogra_> yeah
[12:50] <john-mcaleely> all recoveries we know of: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[12:50] <john-mcaleely> popey, ^
[12:50] <ogra_> Mubun2bi, ^^ there you go
[12:51] <popey> kk
[12:51] <Mubun2bi> Alright, i will do some more research, contact bq and have a good time installing "the right image"
[12:52] <Mubun2bi> thanks for the short answers. :)
[12:52] <ogra_> oh, you also want a specific channel for the M10 ... not sure that is documented anywheer yet
[12:52] <ogra_> "ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris-pd.en"
[12:53] <Mubun2bi> Ok
[13:24] <tedg> mterry: Why do we want robertancell's apps to work? ;-)
[13:25] <mterry> tedg, heh
[13:25] <mterry> tedg, his other apps work!
[13:25] <tedg> mterry: Perhaps something in the desktop file?
[13:25] <tedg> mterry: There's the bug!
[13:25] <dobey> huh
[13:25] <dobey> so confused
[13:25] <mterry> tedg, so qtmir is asking UAL to find() "chatter.robert-ancell_chatter"
[13:25] <mterry> tedg, but UAL is giving back an empty appid object
[13:25] <mterry> tedg, as far as I can tell, it should be finding it
[13:26] <tedg> Hmm, okay. Let me check the regex.
[13:27] <tedg> Hmm, no. Was thinking perhaps the "-"
[13:27] <mterry> tedg, yeah I tried some similarly formatted apps and they seemed to work  :(
[13:28] <mterry> tedg, his desktop file is small, but seems ok?  I dunno
[13:28] <mterry> tedg, (and of course, this works using old UAL api)
[13:28] <tedg> mterry: Hmm, okay. Can you pastebin the desktop file?
[13:29] <mterry> working...
[13:30] <mterry> tedg, http://paste.ubuntu.com/16080104/
[13:30] <tedg> mterry: Cool, let me see if I can add it to the test suite and cause a failure.
[13:31] <tedg> BTW, I think keywords need to be separated by ";"
[13:31] <tedg> (probably not this issue)
[13:33] <mterry> tedg, yeah assuming keywords is a real string list, which I assume it is
[13:33] <dobey> yes
[13:33] <dobey> but should not be the issue
[13:34] <dobey> mterry: what is the .desktop in ~/.local/share/applications/ for chatter though
[13:35] <mterry> dobey, tedg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/16080247/
[13:36] <dobey> huh that looks ok
[13:37] <mterry> the paths seem to be correct
[13:37] <dobey> maybe UAL is expecting the version to contain a period?
[13:37] <dobey> ie, it doesn't like that it's '2'
[13:41] <mterry> dobey, no...  I just tried my lonewolf app and it launched with a version number of "17"
[13:42] <dobey> oh, hmm
[13:42] <mterry> tedg, I would like a way to tell UAL to spew debug output about what it's doing
[13:43] <mterry> tedg, I guess my next step might be to build it debug and step through
[13:43] <tedg> mterry: Yeah, generally you can turn on GLib debugging messages and that'll be a lot more output.
[13:44] <mterry> tedg, I haven't seen that many debug prints in UAL
[13:45] <tedg> mterry: Cool, I have a test that seems to fail here: lp:~ted/ubuntu-app-launch/chatter-test
[13:45] <mterry> tedg, ooooh
[13:46] <tedg> Hmm, but it might be my test. Failing to access the manifest...
[13:48] <tedg> Cool, fixed that and the test still fails! \o/
[13:49] <mterry> ysssss
[13:50]  * mterry hopes it really is that keywords use commas.  some real strict ual validation  :
[13:50] <mterry> :)
[13:50] <sergiusens> oSoMoN hey, out of the blue, do you think amazon music would work with the webbrowser?
[13:57] <ogra_> sergiusens, why not
[13:58] <cc> anybody know ubuntu phone?
[13:59] <cc> meizu pro 5 ubuntu
[13:59] <mterry> cc, yeah  :)  what's your question?
[13:59]  * ogra_ read about it *g*
[13:59] <cc> anybody?
[14:00] <ogra_> cc, just ask your question ... if someone knows the answer he/she will answer you
[14:00] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, no idea
[14:00] <cc> mterry something wrong with this phone
[14:00] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, I’d say like ogra: « why not? »
[14:00] <cc> meizu pro5 ubuntu
[14:01] <mterry> cc, OK give us more details
[14:01] <cc> Meizu is a chinese company，right? yeah,but why i cant buy it in china?!!!
[14:01] <cc> mterry really dont understand
[14:01] <cc> http://en.jd.com/1104324.html
[14:01] <ogra_> you ahev to ask meizu
[14:01] <cc> look at this
[14:01] <ogra_> *have to
[14:01] <cc> when i choose the cuntry,china
[14:01] <cc> it told me no carriers
[14:02] <cc> sorry to trouble you,mterry
[14:02] <mterry> cc, :(  I don't know.  That's up to Meizu
[14:02] <ogra_> cc, try asking ubuntusales@meizu.com via email, perhaps they can help you ...
[14:02] <mterry> cc, we just make the software here
[14:04] <mterry> tedg, so I should stop looking into this right?  You've got a repro test?
[14:04] <tedg> mterry: Yeah, I think it really is the version.
[14:04] <tedg> mterry: Not sure why yet.
[14:05] <cc> yeah
[14:05] <cc> i have asked
[14:05] <cc> they told me ,the meizu pro5 ubuntu cant sell in china
[14:05] <cc> and also i send email to ubuntusales@meizu.com
[14:06] <cc> but no answers
[14:06] <cc> mterry yeah,i know
[14:06] <cc> this place is just a place for software
[14:06] <cc> and i'm sorry to trouble you
[14:06] <mterry> cc, no worries!  And I agree it sucks they don't ship to China
[14:07] <mterry> cc, I'm still waiting for a phone that works with 4G in the US!  :P
[14:07] <mterry> cc, Europe gets all the fun toys
[14:07] <cc> :p
[14:07] <ogra_> :D
[14:07] <ogra_> just move here :)
[14:07] <cc> ah,i think you can buy it in US
[14:07] <cc> because i saw it
[14:07] <ogra_> you can ... but only a few bands are supported by the radio
[14:07] <mterry> cc, yeah but the US uses weird frequencies.  So I can buy it, but it will only do 2G
[14:08] <cc> i see
[14:10] <cc> i see the phone,it can use 4G in china
[14:11] <cc> but we cant buy it in china
[14:11] <cc> so stranage
[14:11] <cc> *strange
[14:19] <altker128> Anyone using the Meizu Ubuntu touch device?  Curious what impressions are.
[14:19] <altker128> I know the hardware will be quite nice, wondering if the lagging and lack of responsiveness have been dealt with
[14:24] <tedg> mterry: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/ubuntu-app-launch/chatter-test/+merge/293126
[14:26] <mterry> tedg, a one-character version wasn't working?
[14:27] <tedg> mterry: Yup, basically any other combination would :-)
[14:27] <tedg> 2.0, 12, 21, test2
[14:28] <mterry> tedg, that's annoying  :)  ok, adding to silo and testing, then will approve
[14:29] <mterry> tedg, why was that working with old api?
[14:31] <tedg> mterry: The old API was dumber and didn't use the regex's.
[14:31] <tedg> mterry: Upgrades! \o/ ;-)
[14:33] <tedg> And, all the tests had "complex" version numbers. There were no tests for a single digit.
[14:35] <mterry> tedg, got it
[15:07] <dobey> sergiusens: amazon music won't work in the phone browser, because it requires flash
[15:12] <sergiusens> dobey does it still?
[15:12] <sergiusens> I guess videos are delivered over flash as well
[15:14] <ogra_> are they ?
[15:14] <dobey> sergiusens: videos are silverlight i think
[15:14] <dobey> sergiusens: music is flash though
[15:15] <ogra_> i know they released a kodi plugin for the rpi2 ... thats definitely not flash
[15:15] <dobey> ?
[15:16] <dobey> amazon music streams are DRMed and there's no public API for doing streaming
[15:16] <ogra_> i think the videos are actual html5 ... with some drm crap sprinkled on top
[15:16] <dobey> the music store doesn't require flash to buy music or play the previews i don't think; but prime streaming and cloud player require flash
[15:17] <dobey> if i go to amazon in chromium and try to watch a video, it complains about silverlight
[15:17] <dobey> but sergiusens asked about music originally
[15:18] <ogra_> yeah
[15:18] <ogra_> well, i knmow the video stuff works on kodi on rpi ... and there is definitely no silverlight for that platform
[15:24] <mterry> tedg, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/256726011/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-arm64.ubuntu-app-launch_0.9+16.04.20160427-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[15:24] <dobey> lol
[15:24] <mterry> tedg, is that a new failure?
[15:25] <mterry> tedg, only fails in xenial, not vivid
[15:25] <tedg> mterry: Hmm I haven't seen that failure, probably not due to the regex change.
[15:26] <tedg> mterry: Guessing it's a timing issue, but curious.
[15:26] <mterry> tedg, will retry that build...
[15:28] <sergiusens> ogra_ dobey videos are not silverlight, or at least it is not the only delivery mechanism
[15:28] <ogra_> yeah, thats what i thought
[15:28] <ogra_> else that plugin wouldnt work
[15:28] <sergiusens> dobey it works fine on chrome fwiw
[15:28] <dobey> well how does the plug-in work?
[15:28] <dobey> sergiusens: well, sure; chrome is special
[15:29] <ogra_> dobey, no idea, never looked at the code https://github.com/XLordKX/kodi ... if you feel like
[15:29] <dobey> sergiusens: and regardless of whether video works fine on chrome or not, it has nothing to do with music :)
[15:30] <sergiusens> dobey music works fine in chrome too
[15:31] <dobey> sergiusens: chrome ships with flash, so yes
[15:31] <sergiusens> ogra_ does that kodi plugin work at all?
[15:32] <ogra_> sergiusens, no idea, i have no prime account .... the first thing it does when you fire it up is to ask you for login
[15:33] <ogra_> but i have seen it recommended in the kodi community a few times ... seems to work
[15:33] <dobey> sergiusens: it might; it looks like it does a funky proxy client thing which hacks around the stream
[15:40] <mterry> tedg, failed again
[15:40] <tedg> mterry: Hmm, okay.
[15:40] <mterry> tedg, in a new and interesting way (one test segfaulted instead of 2 failing checks)
[15:40] <mterry> tedg, retrying again
[15:41] <tedg> :-(
[15:41] <tedg> Odd that the C one is passing too, but not the CPP one.
[15:47] <SylvieLorxu> mcphail: So, err, about Syncthing for Ubuntu Touch... Are there instructions anywhere on how to, like... save files? Because I just get "permission denied" everywhere
[15:47] <SylvieLorxu> Oh
[15:48] <SylvieLorxu> Nevermind, it says so in the store description
[15:48] <SylvieLorxu> But the Ubuntu Touch app listing is just really dumb and doesn't show the store description unless I open it from the store
[15:50] <tedg> Oh, wait, the C one failed too.
[15:50] <mterry> tedg, build worked on third time
[15:50] <mterry> tedg, so...  ::shrug::
[15:50] <mterry> tedg, might want to grab an arm64 porter and iterate the tests a few times to try and see how likely the failure is
[15:51] <tedg> mterry: Yeah, I tried under valgrind to see if slowing it down helps.
[15:51] <mterry> tedg, confirmed chatter can launch with your fix!  Will approve
[15:51] <tedg> Woot!
[15:51] <tedg> At least that is good.
[15:51] <mterry> tedg, oh charles got it
[15:52] <tedg> He is fast today, clearly the Czech beer is helping.
[15:54] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: eh? re: app description
[15:54] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Long-pressing an installed app does not show the store description like opening the App store, then searching for the app and then tapping the result does
[15:55] <SylvieLorxu> Otherwise, the pages are exactly the same
[15:58] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: ah, it depends on the app. apps which have different descriptions defined in the store and in their .desktop file, will do this
[15:58] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: That's really confusing behaviour
[15:59] <SylvieLorxu> From a technical point of view it makes complete sense
[15:59] <SylvieLorxu> From an user experience point of view, not so much :P
[15:59] <ogra_> doesnt that only happen for sideloaded apps anyway ?
[16:00] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: It doesn't, "Syncthing" is without doubt in the Ubuntu Store
[16:00] <dobey> ogra_: no
[16:00] <ogra_> ah
[16:00]  * ogra_ always thought that was the reason
[16:00] <ogra_> probably because i never used syncthing :)
[16:01] <dobey> the reason is that the store UI and SDK don't play together, so you have to enter a description in the store UI and most people enter something different than what they put in the .desktop file
[16:01] <dobey> ogra_: the calendar app does the same thing :)
[16:02] <pstolowski> pitti, ping
[16:02] <ogra_> dobey, hmm, looks fine here ... i even have screenshots
[16:03]  * ogra_ really hates that vertical split we have on the tablet for the store pages btw ... 
[16:03] <dobey> ogra_: look at the text immediately under "Info" under the icon/name in the preview
[16:04] <SylvieLorxu> The Music app ignores symlinks :(
[16:04] <SylvieLorxu> Syncthing is useless on this device :(
[16:08] <SylvieLorxu> Can you remove a review in the Ubuntu Store?
[16:10] <ogra_> i dont think you can
[16:10] <dobey> you can edit, but we don't have deletion in the ui yet
[16:10] <ogra_> iirc editing was recently added though
[16:10] <SylvieLorxu> Ugh :(
[16:10] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: i put up the syncthing app to highlight the deficiencies of the platform. It causes me eternal frustration we don't have a useful sync option on Ubuntu
[16:10] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: Feel free to rate it badly ;)
[16:10] <dobey> meh, sync is totally the wrong "solution" anyway
[16:11] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Sorry but... what?
[16:11] <dobey> what do you mean what?
[16:11] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: If it is any consolation, someone has contacted me today about making a proper, more user-friendly version
[16:12] <SylvieLorxu> A statement like that definitely needs arguments as syncting is the most convenient thing I know and has saved me more hours than I can possibly count
[16:12] <SylvieLorxu> Except on Ubuntu Touch, where it's a hell :(
[16:13] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: it relies on a hideous hack to even _work_, and is then subject to the terrors of app confinement
[16:13] <dobey> i mean just what i said; syncing isn't a solution. it's a terminal compromise that we've forced ourselves into over and over again
[16:13] <ogra_> "the terrors" lol
[16:14] <dobey> also, phone/tablet are not traditional completely insecure PC systems like you are used to
[16:14] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: So what is the better way? Copying this new album I downloaded to all of my devices manually?
[16:14] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: there may be a "proper" version which goes into the Open Store, but, personally, I fell the platform should be sorted out first
[16:14] <ogra_> +1
[16:14] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: why do you need a copy of every album on every device?
[16:14] <SylvieLorxu> mcphail: There definitely are a lot of parts of Ubuntu Touch that need to be sorted out
[16:14] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: To listen to it no matter where I am and regardless of what device I'm using
[16:14] <ogra_> its a platform thing to provide account mgmt on the system level for sucgh stuff that apps can consume
[16:15] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: so what you want is access, not synchronization
[16:15] <ogra_> and system, services when needed
[16:15] <SylvieLorxu> And no, I'm not storing it "in the cloud", I want it to work without an Internet connection
[16:15] <SylvieLorxu> Sure, access, but seeing how there is no access but local access if there's no internet -> syncing
[16:18] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: I quite agree with you. File synchronisation is a perfectly valid ambition.
[16:18] <ogra_> SylvieLorxu, the point is that his should be a system level service that provides interfaces for apps to use, it is the only way to not harm security
[16:18] <dobey> all of my music won't even fit on my phone; so clearly blind sync is not the answer. you don't want all of your music on all devices, you want some of your music on some of your devices.
[16:18] <dobey> selective caching is not sync
[16:19] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: It fits on my devices thanks to the magic of lossy codecs. Some music on some devices is not a solution as that has a high potential of locking me out of the music I want to listen to at that moment and forces me to switch devices depending on what I want to listen to and thus is worse than syncing
[16:20] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: That is a fair point, Syncthing should not be able to just access any location, the confinement itself is great. However, I should be able to give it permission to store files in ~/Music/Synced/, for example, kinda like Android (but with more control than Android, not "Access all files or access none")
[16:20] <dobey> and then there are videos, and documents, and pictures, and who knows what else
[16:20] <mcphail> Don't even get me started on storage space for music. There is still no way for an unblessed app to access SD card storage
[16:21] <dobey> mcphail: even if they could, that doesn't help for devices without SD cards
[16:21] <mcphail> dobey: what does that matter?
[16:22] <ogra_> SylvieLorxu, right, but that requires some filesystem access service we dont have either yet ... that Music and Camera can access the folders on the SD is because they have been hacked up to circumvent any security ... which is fine because these apps are controlled by canonical ... you dont realyl want the same for a random app from the store
[16:22] <dobey> mcphail: it matters because "just use the SD card" doesn't work for everyone
[16:22] <ogra_> SylvieLorxu, there is a lot missing in the platform still
[16:22] <mcphail> dobey: my other "proof of concept" app on the store is Bladur's Gate. No way to access game files on SD card. No way to easily add game files to internal storage. A complete nightmare
[16:22] <mcphail> *Baldur's
[16:22] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: I assume they have been specifically whitelisted to allow that?
[16:22] <ogra_> SylvieLorxu, but there is also the opptortunty for you to add hacks ... since the platform is open enough to do that
[16:22] <ogra_> SylvieLorxu, right
[16:23] <dobey> mcphail: well, the problem there is that you don't have rights to distribute baldur's gate. otherwise the app would include the data it needs to play
[16:23] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: And yeah, the platform still needs improvement. However, the things that are there already are great, so I am hopeful
[16:23] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: I tried hacks, but a symlink in ~/Music didn't work unfortunately :P
[16:23] <ogra_> it will all fall into place over time
[16:23] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: I will trust it to, it is WAY further than Android was in the... 4.X days
[16:24] <mcphail> I really think the core platform needs more focus, before more developer time is taken on convergence, snappification and xenialisation
[16:24] <ogra_> (if i wanted to have some sync going on, i would script it ... and install the missing pieces i need to ~/bin or so)
[16:24]  * mcphail wants ogra_ back on phone dev :)
[16:24] <ogra_> like a simple rsync call over ssh with a wrapper script to hand over a file list (so i can have selective sync)
[16:24] <dobey> mcphail: developers really need to stop beating a dead horse (literally, because vivid is EOL for months now); so moving to xenial really should take priority over adding platform features, i think
[16:25] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: I'd like to use Syncthing because I have that up and running :P
[16:25] <ogra_> mcphail, who knows ... might happen one day ... snappy will fix that ;)
[16:25] <mcphail> Ha!
[16:25] <SylvieLorxu> lol, the .local/share stays after uninstall
[16:25] <SylvieLorxu> That should have a way to be cleaned up too :P
[16:25]  * SylvieLorxu manually removes the synced 4GB
[16:25] <ogra_> yeah, we had controversial discussions about that already
[16:26] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: that's by design
[16:26] <ogra_> the "keepers" won ;)
[16:26] <SylvieLorxu> mcphail: Whaaaaat
[16:26] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: yep - apt does that too
[16:26] <SylvieLorxu> How is it by design that I install an app and never get its space back
[16:26] <SylvieLorxu> That's not a good argument lol
[16:26] <dobey> deleting user data on app removal is awful
[16:26] <SylvieLorxu> s/install/uninstall/
[16:26] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Oh, definitely
[16:26] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: which is why we don't delete user data :)
[16:26] <SylvieLorxu> Yet, it should be possible to remove it WITHOUT manually unlocking full access in the file manager and so
[16:27] <ogra_> well, the "disk usage" thingie should get a button to delete old app data
[16:27] <ogra_> imho
[16:27] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: having the user data in a .dot directory is something I've moaned about for months
[16:27] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: And selecting from which apps, yes
[16:27] <dobey> ogra_: +1
[16:27] <dobey> ogra_: patches accepted :)
[16:27] <ogra_> heh
[16:27] <SylvieLorxu> mcphail: Well, in a way it is great, helps confinement
[16:27] <SylvieLorxu> Mixed blessing, tbh
[16:27] <mcphail> SylvieLorxu: it would be just as confined in a visble directory
[16:28] <SylvieLorxu> mcphail: But then app devs have to deal with idiots changing stuff :P
[16:28] <dobey> mcphail: the main problem isn't that it's "hidden" or "visible"
[16:28] <dobey> mcphail: the main issue is that app data is not exposed over MTP
[16:29] <mcphail> dobey: Oh, I agree with you there. But the having it in a .dot directory makes it even harder to access from the file manager app
[16:29] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: app devs should deal with people changing things anyway; if they don't, their app is broken :)
[16:29] <dobey> mcphail: well, since file manager app is not installed by default, meh
[16:30] <dobey> mcphail: but basically the same issue. that's not about the dot dir. filemanager app also only shows the special dirs by default, same as MTP
[16:31] <dobey> but then there's also the problem that everything isn't necessarily a file
[16:31] <mcphail> dobey: then please +1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-developer-experience/+bug/1521292
[16:32] <dobey> eh
[16:32] <ogra_> the filemanager has a toggle to show hidden files
[16:32] <dobey> i'm not sure that's the right solution to the problem with proprietary game data
[16:33] <mcphail> ogra_: yes - it is one of 7 steps required to access the directory
[16:33] <ogra_> i'm not saying that
[16:33] <mcphail> ogra_: the bug is for "arbitrary" data. Deosn't have to be game files
[16:34] <ogra_> mcphail, that was in response to " filemanager app also only shows the special dirs by default"
[16:34] <dobey> why does an app need "arbitrary" data
[16:34] <mcphail> dobey: a map app may need waypoint files etc
[16:34] <ogra_> while thats true, it offers a way around it
[16:34] <mcphail> dobey: a raw image processor may need .nef files
[16:36] <cheater_no1> guys, is there any difference between buying a Meizu Pro Ubuntu Edition and buying a *Non-Ubuntu* Edition and putting Ubuntu Touch myself? it is very hard to order the Ubuntu edition to Argentina...
[16:36] <dobey> mcphail: i mean thinking about these problems in terms of "need to place data somewhere on the filesystem" seems wrong to me, and only extends our dependence on archaic user interface designs revolving around file systems
[16:37] <dobey> cheater_no1: yes; the latter might not be doable; bootloader might be locked, and you need special tools from meizu to repartition the device, etc…
[16:37] <ogra_> cheater_no1, you would  need whatever flash tool meizu uses to partition the device for ubuntu (we use a different partitioning scheme)
[16:38] <ogra_> and a device with fully unlocked bootloader indeed
[16:38] <mcphail> dobey: then have a database instead, or whatever else you want to use. But the device currently thinks in terms of a conventional filesystem
[16:38] <ogra_> i know people did it with MX4 ... (though i think they lost things like IMEI and MAC addresses when doing it)
[16:39] <cheater_no1> ogra_: thanks. is it the same story with the BQ phones?
[16:39]  * ogra_ wonders if dobey has these sentences in an IRC makro or if he just got slower with the age
[16:39] <mcphail> cheater_no1: I've flashed back and forward from android to ubuntu on a bq device without losing IMEI
[16:39] <mcphail> cheater_no1: but ymmv
[16:39] <dobey> mcphail: the device is not sentient. it doesn't think :)
[16:40] <ogra_> cheater_no1, the re-partitioning is the same ... but bq has definitely always unlocked bootloaders (and i thinhk they provide the falsh tool too)
[16:40] <mcphail> dobey: conceded
[16:42] <cheater_no1> mcphail, ogra_: then I am going to order a BQ non ubuntu edition and rfm. thanks!
[16:43] <ogra_> note that you then have ugly useless buttons on the screen though :)
[16:43] <davmor2> dobey: that's just because you haven't programmed it correctly, why haven't you done that dude??? ;)
[16:44] <ogra_> (the bq ubuntu devices have different glass)
[16:44] <ogra_> davmor2, because you didnt tell him *how* !
[16:44] <mcphail> cheater_no1: I'd encourage you to try to buy the Ubuntu devices to support the cause! You can switch to android if you want
[16:44] <davmor2> ogra_: no I just tell him he broke it
[16:45] <ogra_> thats mean
[16:46] <dobey> davmor2: no no, i just haven't flipped the switch yet for the machine takeover of the planet
[16:46] <ogra_> hey, thats my domain !
[16:47] <cheater_no1> mcphail: I will be more than happy to buy the Ubuntu device the main reason being to escape from Android. The problem is that I am currently in Argentina and it seems that nobody wants to ship here.
[16:47] <mcphail> cheater_no1: aah
[16:47] <ogra_> sergiusens, ^^^ any pointers for cheater_no1 ?
[16:47] <dobey> cheater_no1: take the ferry to uruguay? :)
[16:48] <davmor2> dobey: yeah don't steal ogra_ blame, I have to blame him for the end of mankind ;)
[16:48] <dobey> ogra_: heh, "get hired by canonical" is a good way to get devices into .ar :P
[16:48] <ogra_> lol
[16:48] <dobey> davmor2: nah, it's a team effort
[16:49] <ogra_> davmor2, its not the end of mankind ... its the beginning of human androids !
[16:49] <ogra_> stop being so pessimistic !
[16:49]  * ogra_ unplugs the wire from the back of his head and ansp installs fresh.coffee
[16:50] <ogra_> *snap
[16:52] <dobey> well, really need to get lunch. bbiab
[16:54] <sergiusens> ogra_ I have non, I ship to a friend in Spain ( cheater_no1 )
[16:54] <sergiusens> cheater_no1 maybe use https://www.pybox.com/
[16:57] <Guest55092> where could i download ubuntu touch
[18:21] <clay> does ubuntu touch support encryption of user data or full disk encryption?
[18:21] <ogra_> not yet
[18:21] <clay> any eta?
[18:22] <clay> thanks for the info!
[18:24] <dobey> gah i wish people would stop calling it ubuntu touch
[18:25] <ogra_> why ? it is ubuntu and you can touch it :)
[18:26] <pesho> exit
[18:26] <ogra_> (and it also has this special ubuntu touch :) )
[18:26] <pesho> exit
[18:28] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Isn't it called Ubuntu Touch?
[18:28] <dobey> not really, no. it's just Ubuntu
[18:28] <SylvieLorxu> It behaves quite differently from the desktop Ubuntu
[18:28] <SylvieLorxu> Feels weird to call it Ubuntu
[18:29] <SylvieLorxu> But I see
[18:29] <ogra_> it will become the desktop ubuntu
[18:29] <ogra_> ubuntu touch was an internal project name when we started ...
[18:29] <ogra_> sadly it stuck
[18:29] <ogra_> (in peoples heads at least)
[18:30] <SylvieLorxu> Not just internal, it was commonly called Ubuntu Touch all over the tech news
[18:30] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: well, the server images don't install unity by default either
[18:30] <dobey> SylvieLorxu: and it's still just called ubuntu
[18:30] <SylvieLorxu> dobey: Well, most people refer to that as Ubuntu Server
[18:31] <SylvieLorxu> In fact, even the Ubuntu site does: http://www.ubuntu.com/server
[18:31] <dobey> well, most people just say they run ubuntu on their server or on their pc
[18:32] <SylvieLorxu> But okay, I guess I'll start naming it Ubuntu :P
[18:33] <AuroraAvenue> mariogrip: ping
[18:33]  * ogra_ pokes his mailserver with a ponity stick ... 
[18:33] <davmor2> rip mailserver
[18:33] <ogra_> yeah ...
[18:33] <ogra_> poor old thing ...
[18:34] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: I'm not saying sacrificing the blood of the unborn will fix it, but it's worth a try
[18:35] <ogra_> nah, i doubt it ... its a 128MB 600MHz single core laptop running off a 4200rpm HDD ... after boot the load goes to something around 3.00
[18:36] <ogra_> (i have new HW but wanted to run the new mailserver under snappy ... lacking a mailserver snap package still)
[18:37] <dobey> no dovecot.snap?
[18:37] <davmor2> ogra_: there is a docker mail package that you could drop in docker on snap
[18:38] <ogra_> dobey, needs to be more than dovecot ... and it needs some kind of user mgmt builtin
[18:38] <ogra_> davmor2, yeah, that kind of defeats the purpose of having an imap server snap :)
[18:39] <ogra_> (docker is just a chroot executed in different context :P )
[18:40] <davmor2> ogra_: but it would work and give you a snappy based mail server :P
[18:40] <ogra_> lol, yeah, something like that at least
[18:42] <AuroraAvenue> How do I get hold of mariogrip  ?
[18:42] <davmor2> ogra_: https://github.com/tomav/docker-mailserver think that was the one I as looking at :)
[18:43] <ogra_> davmor2, hmm, i might be able to steal some bits from there for my snap
[18:43] <ogra_> (a lot of pointless stuff in there i wouldnt use though)
[18:44] <AuroraAvenue> Is he ever on here ?
[18:44] <davmor2> AuroraAvenue: yes often
[18:48] <AuroraAvenue> well I support ubports on patreon, and I cannot for the life of me, get hold of him.
[18:49] <ogra_> he was around by ~12:00 UTC here
[18:59] <SylvieLorxu> Ah, Docker
[18:59] <SylvieLorxu> Because the best way to run software is in an outdated, insecure OS set up by someone else
[18:59] <ogra_> heh
[19:04] <dobey> ogra_: ugh, snaps
[19:05] <ogra_> the perfect server env :)
[19:05] <dobey> apparently not or you'd have installed dovecot.snap already ;)
[19:05] <ogra_> it wont be a dovecot snap :)
[19:06] <davmor2> ogra_: don't forget dovecot.sieve ;)
[19:06] <dobey> of course not. it'll have to include the rest of the OS too apparently :P
[19:06] <ogra_> it will be an "imap server" snap ... with some MTA inside, procmail for filtering, something doing the user mgmt **and** dovecot :)
[19:06] <dobey> but that's not an imap server. :P
[19:06] <dobey> that's a server that happens to also do imap
[19:07] <ogra_> ?
[19:07] <davmor2> ogra_: just call it mail_stack.snap and import the mail_stack package :)
[19:07] <ogra_> dobey, how do you mean that
[19:08] <ogra_> dobey, what else would the snap do if i only include postfix, procmail, spamassasin and dovecot in it ?
[19:08] <davmor2> ogra_: mail-stack-delivery/xenial,xenial 1:2.2.22-1ubuntu2 all
[19:08] <dobey> ogra_: i mean you're including an MTA, filtering, and user management too
[19:09] <dobey> and dovecot is more than an imap server anyway; but still
[19:09] <ogra_> well, i need to handle users somehow and i dont want to do that outside of the snap
[19:09] <ogra_> sure, it wouldnt be configured for more than imap though
[19:10] <dobey> so on a snappy system every snap has to have its own set of user management stuff?
[19:10] <ogra_> and incoming mails need to be delivered somehow to the dovecot mailbox ... so i need some MTA
[19:10] <ogra_> dobey, not what i said ... i want it in the snap :)
[19:10] <ogra_> decoupled from the system
[19:11] <davmor2> ogra_: I can point you again at the docker one that does all that for you :P
[19:11] <ogra_> davmor2, :P
[19:11] <dobey> davmor2: is it called "gmail" ? :P
[19:12] <davmor2> dobey: no docker-mail close though ;)
[20:57] <sergiusens> ogra_ is it known that I can authorize an adb connection while the device is locked?
[20:58] <ogra_> sergiusens, yeah, if you accepted the key you can always connect ... thats ondras new adb magic
[20:58] <sergiusens> ogra_ yeah, but being able to accept it while the device is locked beats some security purposes, does't it?
[20:58] <ogra_> oh, yeah
[20:58] <ogra_> you should need to unlock to accept it
[20:59] <sergiusens> ogra_ I was able to accept without unlocking
[20:59] <sergiusens> ogra_I plugged in a bit before unity8 was up
[20:59] <ogra_> thats definitely a bug ... not sure if known ... but i think i saw some discussion about it
[21:00] <sergiusens> I'll do something easy and just do this -> john-mcaleely ^^
[21:00] <sergiusens> there :-)
[21:00] <ogra_> yeah, i wanted to the the same with pmcgowan ... but he's gone :)
[21:03] <dobey> sergiusens, ogra_: the fix is already in a silo and waiting for qa, and i guess might be in 10.3 or something
[21:03] <ogra_> ah, cool ... i knew i saw someone talk about it
[21:19] <ahoneybun_> any news on the OPO mariogrip
[21:38] <eskizo> Hey, is there many m10 users here??
[21:38] <teetea> is ubuntu touch supported on Nexus 7 LTE (deb)?
[21:40] <teetea> I have tried the http://system-image.tasemnice.eu/ channel but I get the "you need to take your device to a pc manufacturer for service" error
[22:20] <eskizo> hey
[22:45] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: none yet, been busy with some exam an stuff.
[22:45] <ahoneybun> mariogrip of course, sorry lol
[22:46] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: no problem, i'll hopefully get done with the n5 this week then i will move over to the opo
[22:47] <ahoneybun> funny as the OPO just hit 2 years old recently and still actively developed
[22:48] <mariogrip> the n4 is even older :P
[22:48] <ahoneybun> almost 4 I think
[22:48] <ahoneybun> mm synegery is not working right
[22:48] <ahoneybun> *synergy
[22:49]  * ahoneybun 's N4 died... 
[22:49] <mariogrip> mm synergy?
[22:51] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: what's synergy?
[22:52] <ahoneybun> I can use 1 keyboard and mouse on many PCs
[22:52] <ahoneybun> Win, Mac, and Linux
[22:52] <ahoneybun> http://synergy-project.org/
[22:52]  * ahoneybun fixed it 
[22:53] <mariogrip> oh? well, I can move my mouse on all my screens native :P
[22:54] <ahoneybun> for us who use Wins for some things
[22:54]  * ahoneybun coughs *GAMES* 
[22:54]  * ahoneybun wants to install sshuttle on his Nexus 7 
[22:54]  * mariogrip got no time for games :P
[22:55]  * ahoneybun wonders if mariogrip can make sshuttle into a snap for him on his Nexus 7 
[22:55] <mariogrip> when i want to play, i open terminal and write python3
[22:55] <ahoneybun> XD
[22:55] <ahoneybun> I'm trying to make a app for Biking (motorcycle mostly)
[22:56] <mariogrip> snap? dont you mean click?
[22:56] <ahoneybun> as long as it works lol
[22:56] <mariogrip> oh, that would be cool, i'm missing a motocycle app for utouch
[22:57] <ahoneybun> checking for weather if you should ride or not
[22:57] <ahoneybun> need to know how to use a openweather api
[22:57] <mariogrip> yeah, that is needed here in norway lol :P
[22:57] <ahoneybun> I grabbed the weather app code from LP just a bit ahead for me
[22:58] <ahoneybun> working on getting a usable UI first
[22:58] <mariogrip> it would probably always say i cannot ride due to bad weather
[22:59] <ahoneybun> XD
[22:59] <mariogrip> btw, i have no idea how to make snaps or click.... all attems worked after 24H then they changed how snaps works ......
[22:59]  * ahoneybun needs a good name to upload to LP for now 
[23:00] <mariogrip> uCycle
[23:00] <mariogrip> :P
[23:02] <ahoneybun> XD
[23:02]  * ahoneybun it's BikingWeather for now 
[23:02] <mariogrip> do you have a bike ahoneybun? if yes what kind? I have an Honda nsr 125 and honda cbr 600
[23:03] <ahoneybun> still learning bzr
[23:03] <ahoneybun> mariogrip I have a Harly Davidson Iron 883
[23:03] <ahoneybun> Iron = all black, no chrome
[23:04] <mariogrip> gonna sell my 125 (highest cc for under 18 ) since i got my licencing upgrade, i have to wait until im 20 before i can buy more than 600
[23:05] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: awesome :D
[23:05] <mariogrip> damn Norwegian road rules makes me drive low cc bikes :P
[23:05] <ahoneybun> wow
[23:06] <mariogrip> it says 600 but it is set to lower effect due to laws...
[23:07] <ahoneybun> riding is fun but I think I would rather have the money from the payments more lol
[23:09] <mariogrip> yeah, but yolo i guess :P
[23:10] <ahoneybun> prehaps but I would be able to get a Ubuntu device easy
[23:10] <ahoneybun> lol
[23:10] <mariogrip> :P
[23:10] <ahoneybun> mm Ubuntu SDK failed at making a chroot
[23:10] <ahoneybun> for armhf
[23:11] <mariogrip> do you have space left? it's pretty big
[23:11] <ahoneybun> yea
[23:11] <ahoneybun> 110 gbs or so
[23:11] <mariogrip> try again maybe?
[23:12] <ahoneybun> yea doing that now after the SDK is running
[23:13] <ahoneybun> I tried during the setup
[23:15] <mariogrip> does it work no=
[23:15] <mariogrip> now?
[23:15] <ahoneybun> still running
[23:15] <ahoneybun> just uploaded my current code for uCycle
[23:15] <ahoneybun> lol
[23:15] <ahoneybun> https://launchpad.net/ucycle
[23:15] <mariogrip> lol, you took that name :D
[23:16] <ahoneybun> yep
[23:17] <ahoneybun> mariogrip new version of uBegginer: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginner
[23:17] <ahoneybun> 3.3 on the store now!
[23:17] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: that's awesome, i was missing a app like that
[23:18] <ahoneybun> I can't say for sure it will every work but I have use an app like it on Android
[23:18] <ahoneybun> so it would be handly for me
[23:18] <ahoneybun> plus API exp
[23:19] <mariogrip> speaking about android, i have something cool. Ubuntu + apk say no more :P
[23:19] <mariogrip> not done yet, but if it works i'll release it on the openstore
[23:21] <ahoneybun> mm sweet
[23:21] <ahoneybun> ubuntu-html5-container:armhf
[23:21] <ahoneybun> can't install that
[23:21] <ahoneybun> held broken packages
[23:21] <mariogrip> that is 15:04?
[23:21] <mariogrip> right?
[23:21] <ahoneybun> 15.04.4 stuff
[23:21] <ahoneybun> running on 16.04 now
[23:22] <ahoneybun> have it on my laptop with no issues
[23:22] <mariogrip> yeah, but the broken packages are in the chroot right?
[23:23] <mariogrip> i had that problem too a while ago, i just made a new one
[23:24] <ahoneybun> the chroot will not start
[23:24] <ahoneybun> updated the core OS and running again
[23:24] <ahoneybun> going to grab the full error this time
[23:26] <mariogrip> i have to go soon, it's pretty late here
[23:26] <ahoneybun> night mariogrip
[23:26] <ahoneybun> lol
[23:26] <ahoneybun> oh soon
[23:26] <mariogrip> :P
[23:27] <mariogrip> I just have to finish this build
[23:27] <ahoneybun> oh cool
[23:28] <mariogrip> btw, what i was saying about ubuntu + apk, allows you to run android apps on ubuntu touch, I don't know how well it will work yet
[23:28] <ahoneybun> that was never the plan though right?
[23:29] <mariogrip> wut?
[23:30] <ahoneybun> just to have native apps in QML or HTML5
[23:31] <ahoneybun> damn man thats the 3rd time the chroot needed a updatre
[23:31] <ahoneybun> today alone
[23:31] <mariogrip> I'm doing this just as proof of concept, i don't expect it to work as native apps
[23:32] <ahoneybun> no like they never wanted android apps on the platform at all
[23:33] <mariogrip> I dunno, but I guess having android apps would bring more users
[23:34] <Acou_Bass> will it though? do people really hop platforms because it can (badly) run the apps from their previous favourite platforms?
[23:34] <Acou_Bass> if they were that married to android apps they would stick to android and have a good android app experience :P
[23:35] <ahoneybun> as a concept it is cool
[23:35] <ahoneybun> and I don't mean to put it down mariogrip
[23:35] <Acou_Bass> me neither, i am 100% in favour of the idea, i just dont think its an idea that brings users over :P
[23:35] <ahoneybun> mariogrip pastebin.ubuntu.com/168089724
[23:36] <ahoneybun> opps
[23:36] <ahoneybun> 168089724
[23:36] <ahoneybun> what
[23:36] <ahoneybun> 16089724
[23:36] <ahoneybun> there
[23:38] <mariogrip> yeah, I dunno. but might help some people if there is just one app that's not on ubuntu, then they could download this and run it
[23:38] <mariogrip> I called the project for aine for now (aine is not an emulator) :P
[23:39] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: humm, i dunno how to fix that
[23:40] <ahoneybun> that's alrught for now, thanks mariogrip
[23:40] <mariogrip> well, the reason why i want aine, i miss one app on my phone :P
[23:41] <ahoneybun> mm how does one update a branch from lp?
[23:41] <mariogrip> bzr pull
[23:42] <ahoneybun> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/aaron/Projects/".
[23:42] <mariogrip> cd into the project first
[23:42] <ahoneybun> got it thanks
[23:44]  * mariogrip is going to sleep, night
[23:44] <ahoneybun> night