=== PaulW2U_ is now known as PaulW2U
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
[15:17] <agaida_> ianorlyn: the descision should be easy - maybe LXQt is ready for LTS with the next LTS release - and i would not write tests, just tracking the code: are there major changes in used libraries, are there blocker bugs in the bugtracker that are targeted for current version +1 or +2 - in that case i wouldn't change :)
[15:19] <agaida_> hmm - LXQt in debian stable without an exploding bugtracker might be a good indicator too
[15:21] <agaida_> last but not least i would prefer a version that begins with 1. instead 0. for a long term supported release
[15:48] <phillw> agaida_:  +1
[15:49] <agaida_> hiayas phillw - might sound strange for one thats known to run only sid, but i would call it common sense
[15:50] <teward> a follow up to that is whether it's on any of their install images
[15:50] <teward> and if it's not, how many people at Debian on Unstable are actually using/testing it
[15:50] <teward> (important questions heh)
[15:50] <phillw> agaida_: Julien has advised a hold for 'Y' and just test Xenial to bits until he has time to look into things.
[15:51] <phillw> As 'new' stuff comes in via Debian, it does make sense to keep an eye on that, as well as with what lubuntu specific things may be added (e.g. artwork - but I think Rafael is involved in debian as well?)
[15:52] <agaida_> teward: thats a completly different story i guess - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=814923
[15:52] <ubot93> Debian bug 814923 in tasksel "tasksel: Please add task-lxqt-desktop to tasksel" [Normal,Open]
[15:52] <agaida_> without tasksel changes no images :D
[15:52] <phillw> indeed.
[15:53] <teward> that then begs the question about how widely tested in Debian it is
[15:53] <teward> because if it's nowhere but unstable :P
[15:54] <agaida_> its in testing - there where it belongs to be :)
[15:55] <teward> same question - how much testing has it gone through :P
[15:55] <teward> sorry, i come from the dev side where I have to ask these questions :p
[15:56]  * agaida_ knows no one that is so crazy to use a untested DE as daily driver - really :D
=== agaida_ is now known as agaida
[15:56] <phillw> agaida: I'll spin up a VM for it :)
[15:57] <agaida> System:    Host razorbox Kernel 4.5.2-towo.1-siduction-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc 5.3.1)
[15:57] <agaida>            Desktop LXQt dm sddm,sddm Distro siduction 13.1.0 Firestarter - rqt - (201306021344)
[15:57] <agaida> :P
[15:57] <phillw> agaida: if you can provide something along the lines of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw/LXQt#Installing_LXQt_on_fresh_system
[15:58] <phillw> I'm happy to throw it at a VM and see how it behaves
[15:58] <agaida> normally i would say: apt install task-lxqt-desktop and be done
[15:58] <phillw> but, that is in the queue :)
[15:59] <agaida> and i would recommend to put a patched tasksel into the lxqt ppa
[15:59] <agaida> done :)
[16:00] <phillw> agaida: as always, try to pin down Julien for a chat .. he does read his emails :)
[16:02] <agaida> hey, i wrote the tasksel-patch and maintain the debian packages, that must be sufficient :)
[16:02] <agaida> so it is all there and tested, one has only to take it and put in in a repo
[16:03] <phillw> agaida: well as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw/LXQt#Installing_LXQt_on_fresh_system starts off with install ubuntu-xenial minimal ... having it install whichever Debian version you want to use would help, along with the ppa's :D :P
[16:04] <phillw> I'd love to see the similarities and differences in the two.
[16:05] <phillw> else we can use ubuntu-net boot (which is debian net-boot with the ubuntu tasksel bolted on)
[16:07] <agaida> phillw: the trick is the tasksel part - you should really have a look into - the most things i've prepared with derivatives in mind - so there are a lot of alternatives, that could be choosen - but without a patched tasksel that wouldn't fly
[16:08] <phillw> agaida: so, is it in a ppa yet?
[16:08] <agaida> no, why - there is this debian bug with a patch attached
[16:08] <agaida> so this part should be easy
[16:09] <agaida> apt source tasksel, put the patch into debian/patches, add it to the series, upload
[16:10] <agaida> given that one use debian/source/format 3.0 (quilt)
[16:10] <phillw> agaida: are you allowed to put that in a patch?.....
[16:10] <phillw> +# thank to debian-qt-kde and their sensible defaults we must explicit choose
[16:10] <phillw> +# a sddm theme, otherwise sddm would throw in half of kde
[16:10] <phillw> +# and the neighbors pets too:
[16:10] <phillw> lmfao
[16:11] <agaida> :)
[16:11] <phillw> But, yes, I do know what you mean!
[16:11] <agaida> its really that hard, breeze has a lot of kde dependencies
[16:12] <agaida> its up to debian-desktop - if they don't like the wording - its not my business anymore
[16:13] <agaida> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=800050
[16:13] <ubot93> Debian bug 800050 in src:sddm "sddm: Please use sensible dependencies for sddm" [Normal,Open]
[16:14] <phillw> yeah, we're not using sddm in lubuntu
[16:14] <agaida> so, i tried to be a nice guy that play nice and respectrul with others - it was worth a try
[16:14] <agaida> and thats why there is a sddm | $wmfoo in the dependencies
[16:16] <agaida> bah, dmfoo - so if you add lightdm to your packagelist lightdm fulfill this alternative
[16:16] <agaida> same for openbox | $wm
[16:16] <agaida> with openbox as default alternative
[16:16] <phillw> agaida: yeah.. this is the latest incarnation suggested .. http://pastebin.com/NRHRsW1U
[16:17] <phillw> may be worth a read and feel free to comment
[16:18] <agaida> i miss any kind of networkmanagement
[16:18] <agaida> ah - cmst
[16:19] <agaida> ok, wasn't sure if i let cmst depend on connman, but i do
[16:21] <phillw> It only got posted yesterday, I've not tried it yet :)
[16:21] <agaida> and i would suggest to take xfwm4 as default WM - but thats a matter of taste - otherwise this setup looks good
[16:21] <phillw> yeah, he mentions that as a choice :)
[16:21] <phillw> Jorn is a knowledgable guy :)
[16:22] <agaida> and to be true - only a matter of taste - i would leave vlc* out
[16:23] <phillw> I shall have a play later. Again, it is only suggestions and vlc handles all the codec stuff
[16:23] <agaida> and go with the gstreamer backends
[16:24] <agaida> trojita is an aweful state right now
[16:24] <agaida> juffed too - at least in debian
[16:25] <phillw> applications will come (we hope).. having a stable system for them to run on is nice :)
[16:25] <agaida> for siduction we go with smplayer/smtube/audacious
[16:26] <agaida> meanwhile in the kernel universe: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=822378
[16:26] <ubot93> Debian bug 822378 in src:linux,src:glibc "<linux/if.h> and <net/if.h> conflict needs to be resolved" [Serious,Open]
[16:27] <agaida> and this is really hard stuff to deal with distributionwise - i for myself handled it with local patched headers :D
[16:29] <phillw> I've no idea what 16.10 will run as kernel, the kernel team chose the lts 4.4 kernel for the ubuntu 16.04 lts.
[16:31] <agaida> and if one read kernel.org that was a wise descision
[16:32] <phillw> it arrived quite late in the cycle, but I heard no dissenting voices on us pressing on with the rest of testing / dev awaiting it to arrive.
[16:33] <agaida> i'm not that much into kernels - i'm interested in the brainfuck things - but they don't work well right now
[16:34] <agaida> so i lost the interest for now and run our normal distribution kernel
[16:35] <phillw> I trust the kernel team... actually teward helped me get a patch in from redhat into ubuntu kernel a few cycles ago... but I was mainly just being told how to format the request correctly :)
[16:35] <agaida> :)
[16:36] <agaida> a fast machine would help me - it isn't funny to build a kernel on a poor octacore
[16:36] <phillw> It did get in... so, with a lot of help... it can be done... Also, with a heck of a lot help I made a non-pae kernel for 14.04 and then with more help had it made able to run in LiveCD mode...
[16:36] <phillw> the 4.4 kernel does not need the add-ons to run in LiveCD mode.
[16:40] <agaida> i have a new toy - kernelwise it is horrible, the last known working kernel is from debian stable
[16:42] <agaida> a nice lenovo miix 2-10 with a failtrail processor and a 32bit UEFI :P
[16:42] <agaida> so if one like pain - i hereby recommend this tablet - works fine with windows 10 :)
[16:43] <phillw> agaida: well, if you ever want to have a play with kernel... this is the write up I had for making a kernel non-pae - but it does include all the tools etc....  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw/non-pae (I used to build on my server based in France on a VM allowed 2 of the 4 cores and not worry about the cpu's getting hot :P )
[16:44] <agaida> philw - i do our alternative kernel - but it isn't funny right now
[16:45] <agaida> i think i will base it in 4.4 longterm if i'm able to spend time on it
[16:45] <agaida> s/in/on
[16:49] <agaida> CPU~Quad core Intel Atom Z3745 (-MCP-) clocked at 1331 MHz OS~Microsoft Windows 10 Home (10.0.10586) RTM x86 Up~22:13 Mem~1541/1944 MB HDD~125 GB (20.1% used) Procs~94 Client~Quassel (Qt5) v0.12.3 (git-732615f) winxi~0.7.0
[16:49] <agaida> and a linux on this machine would be really nice
[17:10] <phillw> agaida: basing on 4.4 would make sense...
[17:14]  * teward was pinged?
[17:14] <phillw> just as a mention :)
[18:16] <joern_> hi @all
[18:18] <phillw> hi joern_ agaida are you still about?
[18:18] <agaida> hi joern_
[18:19] <wxl> joern_: !
[18:22] <joern_> how are you all?
[18:23] <agaida> phillw: i will never let go the chance to rant a little bit - so pasted the second part of out trojita discussion; http://paste.debian.net/446881/
[18:23] <wxl> good here. you joern_ ?
[18:24] <agaida> joern_: fine
[18:24] <phillw> agaida: he was c&p'd to joern_ :)
[18:24] <phillw> s/he/it/
[18:25] <joern_> tired, very tired
[18:25] <joern_> had a lot of work in the past weeks
[18:27] <phillw> agaida: it was enough to tempt him here to have a chat with you :)
[18:29] <agaida> :P
[18:31] <joern_> agaida: which mail provider?
[18:33] <agaida> tested with hetzner
[18:33] <agaida> its not possible to send any mail with recent builds - i know this was working some month ago
[18:41] <joern_> agaida: just tried it, Trojita still works for me
[18:41] <joern_> mail provider web.de, SMTP with STARTTLS
[18:42] <agaida> so it seems to depend on the mailserver behind
[18:43] <agaida> we should test some other providers and far more important, a standard set of things like dovecot, exim and so on
[18:44] <joern_> I think at my workplace, the server is running dovecot
[18:45] <agaida> as i'm not eager to have an bugtracker that explode - and the only thing i could do is forward this crap upstream
[18:45] <ianorlin> agaida, ouch
[18:47] <joern_> btw agaida, any kind of error message?
[18:47] <agaida> just a moment, have to install it again
[18:49] <agaida> http://paste.siduction.org/20160429184946.jpg
[18:57] <agaida> incoming mails will be handled just fine
[19:07] <joern_> I've found a bug report, but it is pretty old
[19:07] <joern_> http://trojita.flaska.narkive.com/PdngtIQ7/send-mail-from-courier-imap-ssl-using-trojita-e-mail-client
[19:44] <ianorlin> https://code.launchpad.net/~walterorlin/ubuntu-manual-tests/lxqt-panel/+merge/293435 yay one more testcase down but still have a long way to go
[19:55] <joern_> good night!
[20:30] <tsimonq2> thanks ianorlin :)
[20:31] <tsimonq2> (for people reading the logs: bug 1575933 )
[20:31] <ubot93> bug 1575933 in ubuntu-manual-tests "Test Case Needed lxqt-panel " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575933
[20:33] <phillw> hiyas tsimonq2 we've had a good chat about lxqt, what was on Fb is on pastebin and the chat in irc.oftc.net is also in a pastebin so people reading the logs can follow them :)
[20:33] <tsimonq2> phillw: what channel?
[20:34] <phillw> the debian-lxqt area.... where else would it be? :)
[20:34] <tsimonq2> phillw: just read it, why's it relevant? :)
[20:35] <phillw> the discussion re: trojita that was further discussed above between Jorn and A gaida :)
[20:36] <tsimonq2> ic :)
[20:37] <phillw> I got them both in one place..... Much easier that way :)
[21:20] <phillw> tsimonq2: follow this bug and find the dev humour!! https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=814923
[21:20] <ubot93> Debian bug 814923 in tasksel "tasksel: Please add task-lxqt-desktop to tasksel" [Normal,Open]
[21:22] <tsimonq2> phillw: I know a guy who has commit access, I'll bring this up to him
[21:23] <phillw> tsimonq2: you have failed to see what I asked.....
[21:23] <tsimonq2> phillw: well nvm he doesn't have commit access
[21:24] <tsimonq2> and what?
[21:24] <phillw> tsimonq2: I can assure you that agaida is quite capable of commits, I just enjoyed the comment... so read the bug carefully and follow the trail.
[21:25] <tsimonq2> phillw: I just don't know what you are saying
[21:25] <phillw> tsimonq2: follow the bug... a hint... read the attached patch.
[21:26] <tsimonq2> phillw: I still don
[21:26] <tsimonq2> *don't get it
[21:27] <phillw> tsimonq2: read [task-lxqt-desktop.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]
[21:27] <tsimonq2> phillw: I know, what's abnormal about it?
[21:29] <phillw> tsimonq2: .... did you not notice this??
[21:29] <phillw>  +# thank to debian-qt-kde and their sensible defaults we must explicit choose
[21:29] <phillw>  +# a sddm theme, otherwise sddm would throw in half of kde
[21:29] <phillw>  +# and the neighbors pets too:
[21:29] <phillw> 😜
[21:29] <tsimonq2> hahahahahah
[21:30] <phillw> do read bug reports and patches.... devs have humour
[21:33] <phillw> tsimonq2: there is a 2nd bug raised over that issue..
[21:36] <phillw> tsimonq2: As both jorn and a gaida seem content with list of things to add in, I will be adding that set to the lubuntu LXQt wiki page with the comments from both of them so people can see where things are up to and easily join in to discussions on what is a very important thing for lubuntu.
[21:37] <phillw> getting an lxqt tasksel into debian is pretty much a pre-requisite for us to have a variant in ubuntu for lubuntu to tune to our own needs.
[21:42] <phillw> tsimonq2: you okay to move Y stuff to a sub page for the time being?
[23:14] <tsimonq2> phillw: no, add it to the page if you need
[23:14] <tsimonq2> please :)
[23:17] <phillw> okies, but as it is debian-lxqt, lxde-lxqt and lubuntu-lxqt it will be going to the top of the page :) Oh, and there will shortly be a new Fb group for LXQt ... still chatting about how it should be structured and phrased.