| Kamilion | trying to get the webcam-webui example to work, had to apt install snapd, but I get an error when trying to snap install webcam-webui_1_amd64.snap: - Make snap "ubuntu-core" available to the system (can not set next boot: cannot determine bootloader) | 01:33 |
|---|---|---|
| caraka | While doing the 'build your first snap' tutorial, the 'snapcraft stage' command never sees/installs the stage-packages: -fswebcam portion of the yaml. Any ideas what I could be missing? | 10:01 |
| daker | ogra_: ping | 10:21 |
| daker | hi i am trying to install a snap using | 10:21 |
| daker | sudo snap install raspi2modulessyncup_4.4.0_armhf.snap | 10:21 |
| daker | a local snap, but snap is trying to download it from the store | 10:22 |
| daker | https://paste.ubuntu.com/16143215/ | 10:22 |
| caraka | dacker: I have no business offering advice here, but have you tried specifying the complete path the .snap file? | 11:03 |
| === yp is now known as ypwong | ||
| === daker_ is now known as daker | ||
| === rob-oi-ma_ is now known as rob-oi-ma | ||
| oparoz_ | Does snappy care about what's in the snap's /etc/init.d folder? | 14:42 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion did you install only snapd and not by any chance any deb you were not supposed to? Like ubuntu-snappy? | 14:48 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion log a bug just in case | 14:49 |
| === oparoz_ is now known as oparoz | ||
| oparoz | Is there an easy way to clean up all the garbage left over by snaps in /etc/systemd ? | 15:12 |
| slvn | oparoz, maybe the scripts from zyga, e.g. https://github.com/zyga/devtools/blob/master/reset-state | 17:50 |
| oparoz | Thanks slvn. I think that script goes too far as my system probably wouldn't boot any more :) | 17:51 |
| oparoz | But it could be altered | 17:51 |
| slvn | oparoz, I tried it to remove/clean-up all snaps installed on my system ... | 17:51 |
| oparoz | slvn, your system is probably desktop? | 17:52 |
| slvn | yes | 17:52 |
| oparoz | The problem with core is that some of these snaps are required to boot | 17:52 |
| oparoz | But that script still helps as it gives the location of files | 17:53 |
| slvn | oparoz, ok, then maybe don't use this script :) | 17:53 |
| slvn | btw, may I ask you what kind of platform do you use for this ? | 17:54 |
| oparoz | What do you mean by platform? | 17:54 |
| slvn | hardware ? I mean this is not a desktop ? | 17:55 |
| oparoz | I use a VM for amd64 stuff, otherwise it's a Pi2 | 17:55 |
| slvn | ok, I'm just curious | 17:56 |
| oparoz | Once Snappy core is GA, I'll probably use the desktop version | 17:57 |
| oparoz | Right now I just need something which matches the target | 17:58 |
| slvn | oparoz, but snappy is currently working on desktop, isn'it ? I mean, I just build and tested my first snap packages last week. Is this different for rpi2 ? | 18:00 |
| oparoz | Yes, it's different because the Pi2 uses Core which isn't ready yet | 18:00 |
| oparoz | Should take another month or 2 | 18:01 |
| slvn | ok | 18:02 |
| bumblehead | Hi I'm trying to run the webchat snap example. I was able to create the webchat snap package. I was able to install it. I'm not able to run it. | 19:47 |
| bumblehead | http://askubuntu.com/questions/765571/how-do-i-run-the-snapcraft-webchat-example | 19:47 |
| bumblehead | would someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? | 19:48 |
| bumblehead | should snappy still be considered to be in the "baking" stage? | 20:05 |
| Kamilion | bumblehead: sorry, just woke up a little while ago -- I had questions like yours too | 20:08 |
| bumblehead | Kamillion: were you able to find answers or help for the questions you had? | 20:09 |
| Kamilion | from what I understand, snappy moved beyond the initial baking stage with 16.04's release, supposed to include snapd/ubuntu-core-launcher on the install media of all of the different spins | 20:09 |
| Kamilion | unfortunately, lubuntu doesn't ship with snapd/ubuntu-core-launcher | 20:09 |
| bumblehead | Kamilion: do I need to install snapd/ubuntu-core-launcher? | 20:10 |
| Kamilion | <sergiusens> Kamilion did you install only snapd and not by any chance any deb you were not supposed to? Like ubuntu-snappy? <---- no, fresh lubuntu 16.04 64bit ISO, apt install snapd, snap install webcam-webui_1_amd64.snap | 20:10 |
| Kamilion | bumblehead: I don't know | 20:11 |
| Kamilion | are you using lubuntu? | 20:11 |
| Kamilion | do you have the 'snap' command available? | 20:11 |
| bumblehead | no regular ubuntu | 20:11 |
| bumblehead | I do have the snap command | 20:11 |
| Kamilion | when i tried to use the snap command I got this error | 20:11 |
| Kamilion | - Make snap "ubuntu-core" available to the system (can not set next boot: cannot determine bootloader) | 20:11 |
| Kamilion | in response to 'snap install webcam-webui_1_amd64.snap' | 20:11 |
| Kamilion | bumblehead: as far as I know, all of the other isos have snapd (and ubuntu-core-launcher is one of it's dependants) | 20:12 |
| Kamilion | once I actually installed the OS to a disk, I got past the strange bootloader error | 20:13 |
| bumblehead | i don't think this looks good when the examples don't run | 20:13 |
| Kamilion | but now I have the same problem as you | 20:13 |
| Kamilion | I built the webcam snap, and installed it, and have no idea how to launch it | 20:13 |
| bumblehead | it looks like a lot of the information out there is spread out and incomplete | 20:14 |
| bumblehead | despite the marketing around snap, official support snap may be shallow | 20:15 |
| Kamilion | correct, IMHO canonical has followed this plan before with a lot of their 'not-invented-here' alternatives to standard linux, such as the unity desktop, mir, 'click' packages, and a couple others I could name but decline to at this point | 20:15 |
| bumblehead | maybe they'll have some of the issues worked out in the next release | 20:15 |
| Kamilion | there's lots of news postings | 20:15 |
| Kamilion | and very little wiki/documentation | 20:15 |
| bumblehead | yeah some of the documentation just looks like it was created as a formality | 20:16 |
| Kamilion | and what documentation there is, seems targeted at either developers only, or "users, no developers, no admins" | 20:16 |
| bumblehead | what good is a howto document that doesn't show me how to run or test the app? | 20:16 |
| Kamilion | I'm very used to tools where the documentation is "read the comments in the source code", so i'm not TOO bothered | 20:16 |
| bumblehead | I'm using ubuntu touch --same situation there | 20:17 |
| bumblehead | stuff just languishing in a broken state for years | 20:17 |
| Kamilion | but this isn't a bashing session, just pointing out | 20:17 |
| * Kamilion laughs | 20:17 | |
| Kamilion | yeah, Upstart. | 20:17 |
| bumblehead | the ubuntu touch store also | 20:17 |
| Kamilion | The stories I could tell you about my adventures with upstart. *facepalm* | 20:17 |
| Kamilion | what about Ubuntu-One? Poof, gone, all my dotfiles and homedir neccessities... | 20:18 |
| Kamilion | I love that they try new things | 20:18 |
| Kamilion | but it's a double edged sword. | 20:18 |
| Kamilion | so I hope nobody mistakes this as "I hate canonical!" because that's just totally untrue. I have much <3 for them, I just don't agree with them all the time, that's all :D | 20:19 |
| bumblehead | its fair to observe flaws | 20:20 |
| Kamilion | anyway, snappy seems half-baked at the moment | 20:20 |
| bumblehead | there's always this persective 'its open source so you aren't in a position to complain and we're all busy and can't fix our broken stuff so live with it' | 20:20 |
| Kamilion | the idea is well thought out, but the implimentation is... uh... What's a word for 'disorganized and strewn about" ? | 20:21 |
| bumblehead | implementation is incomplete | 20:21 |
| bumblehead | and the pattern appears to be that once something gets released | 20:22 |
| Kamilion | eh, the ecosystem is incomplete; the core tool works at the moment | 20:22 |
| bumblehead | they stop improving it | 20:22 |
| Kamilion | *cough* ptrace in upstart... | 20:22 |
| Kamilion | yeah. | 20:22 |
| Kamilion | The one thing I wanted to do was launch the webserver... Oh, sorry, can't launch apache with upstart because upstart uses ptrace somewhere and apache really doesn't like that. | 20:23 |
| Kamilion | longstanding bugs, plans formed, and in the end? systemd swoops in and the whole problem evaporates. | 20:23 |
| Kamilion | I'm kind of afraid that's what's going to happen to Mir/Unity as well... | 20:24 |
| bumblehead | sounds like they need to figure out a way to do that with unity and ubuntu touch and snappy and the application store and the core ubuntu apps... | 20:24 |
| Kamilion | wayland will suddenly get a whole bunch of industry support (like the recent announcements that the new GL/Vulkan stuff was already wayland compatible) and then people will be left holding the ball trying to support what amounts to be a personal project | 20:25 |
| Kamilion | well, it seems to me that's exactly what snappy is | 20:25 |
| bumblehead | its too bad... | 20:25 |
| bumblehead | in theory the idea is really attractive | 20:25 |
| Kamilion | a way to ship a whole application bundle with it's libs and everything, as one package. | 20:25 |
| Kamilion | It will be GREAT for games. | 20:26 |
| bumblehead | is there an alternative to snappy that's supported by a responsible vendor? | 20:26 |
| Kamilion | no longer does it matter that this game needs qt4-something and I only have qt5-something | 20:26 |
| Kamilion | uhhh, honestly? Not that I know of. | 20:26 |
| Kamilion | I'm familiar with most of the distros and the package managers that run them | 20:26 |
| Kamilion | the only thing that I can think of that's similar is gentoo's overlay system for portage | 20:27 |
| Kamilion | Or, well, ubuntu's own PPA system if there's a metapackage in the PPA that 'grabs everything' | 20:27 |
| Kamilion | and that's one of the reasons why I'm still here | 20:28 |
| Kamilion | Canonical may be quirky and slow to support things.. but they *ARE* innovating greatly | 20:28 |
| sergiusens | bumblehead the snapcraft examples are meant to be examples; and fwiw, it is run on every commit of snapcraft it self | 20:29 |
| Kamilion | like the lxqt PPAs (there's an lxqt-metapackage in the PPA that will get the right bits from universe and from the ppa) | 20:29 |
| sergiusens | it is not a command line tool (the way the example is crafted at least). | 20:29 |
| sergiusens | and you have an answer http://askubuntu.com/questions/765571/how-do-i-run-the-snapcraft-webchat-example | 20:29 |
| Kamilion | http://puu.sh/oBzoy/7622f10efb.png <--- so it should be running on :3000 now? | 20:30 |
| Kamilion | *checks* | 20:30 |
| bumblehead | sergiusens: thank you that looks like the information I needed | 20:31 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion it should | 20:32 |
| sergiusens | I can't try right now; I'm on 3g | 20:32 |
| sergiusens | if you want a better node app; try shout. I am using it to write into right now | 20:33 |
| sergiusens | I'm really close to an electron app working as well | 20:33 |
| sergiusens | but it is the weekend after all | 20:33 |
| sergiusens | and not much free time to get to these things | 20:34 |
| bumblehead | seriusens: I want to package something with nw.js --if you finish packaging the electron app will you share the result somewhere? | 20:34 |
| bumblehead | sergiusens: I will try the shout example | 20:35 |
| Kamilion | sergiusens: are you one of the primary developers? | 20:35 |
| Kamilion | (it is not running on :3000 for me) | 20:36 |
| bumblehead | https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/blob/6685d6359887fbb7b1c35f3dce30bb70e7b06e8a/examples/shout/snapcraft.yaml | 20:36 |
| Kamilion | oh | 20:37 |
| Kamilion | I should point out -- you probably want The Lounge, not shout | 20:37 |
| Kamilion | https://github.com/thelounge/lounge | 20:37 |
| Kamilion | #thelounge here on freenode. It's a community fork of Shout, because the developer said that Shout is a personal project and he apparently wants to keep it that way | 20:38 |
| bumblehead | the should example does not build either | 20:40 |
| bumblehead | Issues while validating snapcraft.yaml: Additional properties are not allowed ('uses' was unexpected) | 20:40 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion it was already pointed out to me | 20:40 |
| sergiusens | bumblehead are you using master? | 20:40 |
| bumblehead | ah no | 20:40 |
| bumblehead | I will try the master example | 20:41 |
| sergiusens | bumblehead what are you using? | 20:41 |
| bumblehead | there is a 1.* branch that's what I was referencing | 20:41 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion https://github.com/sergiusens/shout/commit/899e61fa28fe6cb98a434123584a621c1d11ceb3#commitcomment-17313321 | 20:41 |
| sergiusens | even though shout is not really abandonded though | 20:41 |
| bumblehead | snap is building the shout package | 20:42 |
| Kamilion | Shout isn't *abandoned* | 20:42 |
| Kamilion | "We felt that the original Shout project "stagnated" a little because its original author wanted it to remain his pet project (which is a perfectly fine thing!). | 20:43 |
| Kamilion | A bunch of people, excited about doing things a bit differently than the upstream project forked it under a new name: “The Lounge”." | 20:43 |
| Kamilion | I've been hanging around the IRC channel for the past ~3-4 weeks, and development is extremely active right now | 20:43 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion yeah, "active" and wanting to use it for real makes me think I want the dust to settle a bit; but I haven't checked out yet to be certain of my initial thoughts | 20:44 |
| Kamilion | but that's also a good thing that Shout isn't hugely active, the snaps made from it probably won't be version-obsolete for a while. :) | 20:44 |
| Kamilion | sergiusens: I should mention -- right now Shout cannot handle getting disconnected, and has no idea when 'the server has gone away'. | 20:45 |
| bumblehead | i wish one of the examples was a nw.js/electron hello world app that runs from a shell or icon click | 20:45 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion I fully know about that :-) | 20:46 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion you may see me pinging ubottu to know if my connection is alive :-) | 20:46 |
| * Kamilion chuckles | 20:46 | |
| Kamilion | yeah, I do that to my supybot as well | 20:46 |
| Kamilion | although ours is the buddy/guy/friend/pal sequence from south park | 20:47 |
| Kamilion | trying to craft a snap from my old disker-gui package: https://github.com/kamilion/disker-gui | 20:47 |
| Kamilion | or at least, that is the plan. | 20:48 |
| Kamilion | sergiusens: do you know if snapd works on any of the other live ISOs, or if it's required to be an on-disk install with a 'normal' root filesystem? | 20:49 |
| Kamilion | I just can't seem to get snaps working on my most recent xenial spin, https://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-core/releases/tag/0.9.0-rc1 | 20:50 |
| bumblehead | sergiusens: do you recommend electron over nw.js? | 20:50 |
| Kamilion | I don't think it's enthused that my root filesystem is a squashfs. | 20:50 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion I don't know about installation requirements or not, sorry | 20:52 |
| sergiusens | bumblehead I'm not a nodejs person; but everything interesting is using electron | 20:52 |
| sergiusens | Kamilion a bug report against snapd might be handy | 20:53 |
| Kamilion | sergiusens: once I can figure out what needs to go in it, repros and data. | 21:00 |
| Kamilion | where should bug go? to the github issues, or launchpad on snapd? | 21:03 |
| Kamilion | ah, nevermind, answer's obvious if I look at the github -- no issue tracker. | 21:04 |
| Kamilion | just pull requests. | 21:04 |
| bumblehead | what does the yaml file look like for a tradional desktop style application which does not run as a service daemon? | 21:05 |
| caraka | noob question: While doing the 'build your first snap' tutorial, the 'snapcraft stage' command never sees/installs the stage-packages: -fswebcam portion of the yaml. Any ideas what I could be missing? | 21:06 |
| === not_phunyguy is now known as phunyguy | ||
| Kamilion | bumblehead: I'm looking through the examples tree, and I'm not seeing any desktop applications, but I would figure it would expose a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications or somewhere else that a desktop environment looks for .desktop files. | 21:06 |
| Kamilion | caraka: I had some trouble going thru the steps myself; but grabbing the final from the git repo and snapcraft snap worked. | 21:07 |
| Kamilion | https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/tree/master/examples | 21:07 |
| Kamilion | caraka: This is pretty much what I saw: http://puu.sh/oBzoy/7622f10efb.png | 21:08 |
| caraka | Thanks Kamilion. I haven't got that far because fswebcam isn't getting staged. I'll try cutting and pasting the complete example yaml again, but I'm not sure it's going to help. :P | 21:11 |
| Kamilion | I had some problems when it went to go update repos, I had keybase's deb repo enabled and it was very unhappy there was no Release file for xenial | 21:11 |
| Kamilion | caraka: there's a snapcraft-examples package you can install from apt | 21:11 |
| Kamilion | what I did was cp -R /usr/share/doc/snapcraft-examples/examples/webcam-webui ~/snapcrafty/webcam-webui | 21:12 |
| caraka | I shall try that, thanks. Would prefer to roll my own in order to learn the thng tho... | 21:13 |
| Kamilion | understood | 21:14 |
| caraka | all part of the learning curve. | 21:14 |
| Kamilion | I myself was just making sure everything was operating as intended before moving on to trying my own | 21:14 |
| Kamilion | yeah, I just started reading the docs myself yesterday | 21:15 |
| caraka | And of course I'll be having a go at a full desktop app before I'm ready. :P | 21:15 |
| Kamilion | someone linked them to me after I complained about the release notes pointing to a Marketing press release page that wasn't very helpful | 21:15 |
| Kamilion | then found out lubuntu somehow missed snapd in their 16.04 release | 21:16 |
| Kamilion | I was told it's supposed to be part of the platform seed, which all of the different spins inherit from | 21:16 |
| Kamilion | so in theory snapd should have been included with all of the 16.04 release ISOs. | 21:17 |
| caraka | I think it may have all hit the betas at a very late stage | 21:17 |
| Kamilion | but nobody tested before shipping, and #ubuntu-release was a madhouse during release week, so it doesn't suprise me it was overlooked or put off till 16.04.01's june point release | 21:17 |
| caraka | I thought I heard it skidding into the blocks on April 20th... | 21:18 |
| Kamilion | hahaha no wonder | 21:18 |
| Kamilion | meanwhile, I've been running xenial since november | 21:18 |
| Kamilion | got so many little papercut annoyances fixed between 15.04 and 16.04 | 21:19 |
| caraka | I waited. and mucked around with systemd and thoroughly barfed on my wily, so that I could erase it last week and start again | 21:19 |
| Kamilion | openvswitch is just so much happier now | 21:19 |
| Kamilion | xen and openvswitch play together nicely now too | 21:20 |
| Kamilion | and they barely caught the cusp of the ceph LTS release | 21:20 |
| Kamilion | I think they put one of the release candidates in the repo just before release and there's a SRU promised when the final lands. <3 | 21:21 |
| Kamilion | I really love that they loosened the SRU restrictions this LTS | 21:21 |
| Kamilion | because of it now we get nginx 1.10 | 21:21 |
| Kamilion | (that was a VERY pleasant suprise) | 21:21 |
| Kamilion | none of these ship on canonical ISOs, so they can all get updated in the archive without worry. | 21:22 |
| caraka | I never play with any of the infrastructure toys | 21:24 |
| Kamilion | all in all, 16.04 is gonna be a really solid platform that'll be well cared for till 2020ish for the server packages, and like 2018 for the desktop packages. | 21:24 |
| Kamilion | well, uh | 21:24 |
| Kamilion | till about 14.10 they were kinda sorta broken when just pulled in bare from the archives <.< | 21:25 |
| caraka | I hope so. canonical is mature enough to have made enough people grumpy. (and enough happy) | 21:25 |
| Kamilion | in 15.04 I complained enough so the defaults were sane but kind of poopy performance | 21:25 |
| === not_phunyguy is now known as phunyguy | ||
| Kamilion | in 15.10 I got the performance problems resolved with a lot of the defaults | 21:25 |
| caraka | and now you have an LTS you are happy with | 21:25 |
| Kamilion | and the openstack team has been doing GREAT work on papercut bugs too | 21:26 |
| Kamilion | well, now we have an LTS where everything works out of the box, at least. | 21:26 |
| caraka | ^^ | 21:26 |
| Kamilion | 14.04's point releases really helped too | 21:26 |
| Kamilion | and if you wanna play around with the fancy VM stuff | 21:27 |
| caraka | Well, we're onto our 6th LTS or so, so the pattern is set | 21:27 |
| Kamilion | https://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-core/releases/tag/0.9.0-rc1 <--- my appliance image USB stick is powered by ISOs and casper | 21:27 |
| Kamilion | TORAM=Yes is my bestest friend. | 21:28 |
| Kamilion | I steal a gigabyte of ram for a full desktop on top of xen/kvm, openvswitch, ceph, and python3 | 21:28 |
| Kamilion | "Don't mix your OS with your data" is a good way of describing it... Stick it on a slow USB stick, boot it into ram, unmount the slow usb stick, mount the user disks. | 21:29 |
| Kamilion | ubuntu-core's a different way of doing the same thing | 21:30 |
| caraka | thats some serious effort! | 21:31 |
| Kamilion | as an appliance, I expect to throw away 99.9% of runtime data when the machine shuts down. Anything the user cared about, they saved. (EG, logs and databases and such) | 21:31 |
| Kamilion | I stood on the shoulders of some pretty tall giants. :3 | 21:32 |
| caraka | Despite it being Sunday morning, I must go to work. Keep up the good work! | 21:32 |
| Kamilion | but yeah -- after three years, my goals and canonicals have somewhat aligned | 21:32 |
| Kamilion | thanks to openstack getting popular. | 21:32 |
| Kamilion | o/ | 21:32 |
| Kamilion | good luck with snapcraft! | 21:33 |
| caraka | o/ thanks, I'll need it! | 21:33 |
| bumblehead | howI installed the ubuntu-calculator-app with snap http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/ubuntu-calculator-app/snap-all-things/view/head:/snapcraft.yaml | 21:47 |
| bumblehead | how do I run the calculator from a shell? | 21:47 |
| bumblehead | ubuntu-caculator-app.start | 21:48 |
| bumblehead | command not found | 21:48 |
| sergiusens | bumblehead use autocomplete or ls /snaps/bin | 21:53 |
| sergiusens | err /snap/bin | 21:53 |
| bumblehead | sergiusens: thanks I'm able to run the calculator app | 21:59 |
| bumblehead | now I'm trying to run my nw.js application with snap but I think the npm command fails because it is not executed from the same location as the package.json | 22:00 |
| bumblehead | I'm using this command | 22:00 |
| bumblehead | `command: bin/npm run nw` | 22:01 |
| bumblehead | `nw` is defined in the script space of the package.json | 22:01 |
| bumblehead | relative to the snap root directory it is found in lib/node_modules/flashcards/package.json | 22:02 |
| bumblehead | I tried changing command to `cd lib/node_modules/flashcards/ && ../../../bin/npm run nw | 22:03 |
| bumblehead | but snapcraft says the cd command is not found | 22:03 |
| sergiusens | bumblehead you build using parts; `command` should hold the final application | 22:06 |
| sergiusens | so `apps` defines how the application is exposed within the snap to the outer world | 22:07 |
| sergiusens | and parts define how to build and/or lay it out in the snap | 22:07 |
| oparoz | Is it possible redirect calls going outside of a snap to an internal folder? Like when a binary only wants to create folders in /var/run | 22:10 |
| oparoz | Because even when compiled from source, we can't tell the binaries where the writable partition is | 22:12 |
| bumblehead | sergiusens: can you tell me how I would describe a build step in the parts section? for example running browserify? | 22:13 |
| bumblehead | it looks like I would need to write a plugin using python that would drive the node behaviour I need | 22:46 |
| bumblehead | I don't know where the best place would be to make possible suggestions | 22:49 |
| bumblehead | but I would suggest that the snappy plugin should use a special npm run command | 22:49 |
| bumblehead | that way people using node/npm would have an easy way to hook up functionality they need for setting up snap packages | 22:50 |
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