/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/05/01/#xubuntu-devel.txt

flocculantbluesabre: can you have a look at http://pad.ubuntu.com/thunar please - made a start, really think we should get this moving along :)08:55
flocculantas soon as you're ok - I'll get the testcase on the tracker and then calls out 08:55
flocculantknome: going to do an mp for our cd build times - so whichever way we end up going - if indeed we do - the builds are done really early UTC11:39
flocculantor at least I think I've found the right thing to do mp for :D11:40
knome:)11:56
flocculantakxwi-dave: so quite quickly then - release notes19:14
flocculantrenamed it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/ReleaseNote19:15
akxwi-dave:-)19:15
flocculantplanning to make that a 'rolling' thing19:15
akxwi-davesounds good19:15
flocculantthat takes more than 1 person getting fed up with it :D19:16
akxwi-davewell 2 of usat least19:16
flocculantif at least a couple of us could take it in turns - kind of week on week off - to try our best to keep it current19:16
flocculantthat would be awesome19:17
akxwi-daveas picard would say.. "make it so"19:17
flocculantI would like to be able to ping the url to testers/tracker 19:17
flocculantso that they know what's up19:17
flocculantthen - at release - we can just copy current testing to that name - ie yakkety19:18
akxwi-davesound sensible19:18
flocculantmostly - the important thing is - if you change the rolling one - change the date in the 'wiki warning' 19:19
flocculantCurrent edit state - 26.04.201619:19
flocculantthing ^^19:19
akxwi-davekk19:19
flocculantin English ... 19:19
flocculant:p19:19
akxwi-daveyes sir o719:20
akxwi-dave:-)19:20
flocculantakxwi-dave: irc sessions looks as full as last cycle ... 19:20
flocculantwon't do that unless we have a few say yay :)19:20
akxwi-dave2 or 3 then19:20
flocculantyea19:21
flocculantI would rather 20 turn up and say sod all and read things to be honest19:21
akxwi-davethats one of the reasons i thought of the small vids.. for those that may not be comfatable with irc19:22
flocculantakxwi-dave: also - unlikely I'll bother setting up trello given little package setting up and no b119:22
flocculantakxwi-dave: yup - that's a nicely positive thing for sure :)19:22
flocculantmight be worth you and I having a 1 to 1 on that before you do it - I can mail or pm phone number if you like19:23
flocculantor we can vid or pad or ... 19:24
flocculantor you can pm me your number - whatever :~)19:24
akxwi-daveyep no prob mate..19:24
flocculant:)19:25
flocculantsee pm then19:25
flocculantno rush on that 19:26
akxwi-davesorry had dog jumping on me.. sill thing shouldn't be jumping she has an op on her leg19:27
flocculantakxwi-dave: re release note - I'll not be doing anything to changelogs till the last minute19:27
flocculantI'm also going to run through the contr docs to make sure nothing says 'we WILL do'19:28
flocculantakxwi-dave: last thing - wiki - xubuntu one19:29
flocculantI have draft http://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/isotesting19:29
flocculantwhich I believe covers that simply19:29
flocculantanything else you can think of which would help - put it on the blueprint as a task19:30
akxwi-davethats very nice  :-)19:30
akxwi-daveso much more simple for peeps19:30
flocculantI'd like for us to have a set of basic pages there for testers19:30
flocculantand on x.org wiki - we have some control :)19:31
akxwi-davethat always helps :-)19:31
flocculantgiven that you're brave enough to do the vids - least I can do is make wiki pages from notes - so use the ubuntu.pad thing and I will do that :D19:32
flocculantyea :)19:32
akxwi-davedeffo.. will do .... started on that need to type up,,19:33
flocculant\o/19:33
flocculantshould have #startmeeting for this :p19:33
flocculantalso get knome to do me a !qateam factoid to ping people :D19:34
akxwi-davei'm gunna copy an paste it to g docs for me .:-)19:34
flocculantwell - in my logs now :D19:34
flocculantthanks Dave :)19:34
flocculantakxwi-dave: one more thing19:35
akxwi-daveyep19:35
flocculantstarted trying to sort our 'extra' thunar testcase before I do the deal and shout out - have a butchers at http://pad.ubuntu.com/thunar19:36
flocculantmostly notes amongst instructions - if you can see where I'm going   - try and fiddle a bit for bluesabre (sean) 19:37
flocculantit's really easy to write these things when it is in your head 19:37
flocculantshame ali1234 isn't here to look19:38
flocculantkrytarik or Unit193 could though :p19:38
akxwi-daveaye.. got a fresh install onb real hardware to do testing.. will bash it about19:41
* flocculant has gone to kvm - some vbox update killed vbox19:42
akxwi-daveouch19:43
flocculantyup19:44
flocculantdone for me :D19:44
flocculantalso been looking at the gnome tool 19:45
flocculantfor a simple test - as long as we work out where to remove the ~/home file from19:45
flocculantsomething really simple for a drive by tester19:46
flocculantkind of a " do this rm path" deal19:46
flocculantBUT really need to be sure that krytarik doesn't trash his ~home :p19:47
flocculantso plans19:47
flocculant:)19:47
akxwi-daveunlike the webmaster that deleted all the sites his company hosted..19:48
knomeflocculant, PM me what you want in the factoid20:19
nairwolfflocculant: I think transform the release notes to a 'rolling' thing could be great ;)20:20
flocculantnairwolf: then I assume you're happy to help make that happen20:24
flocculanteveryone thinks that everything is a great idea - unfortunately 99% of people assume that they can just wait for things to happen20:24
knome!qateam | flocculant 20:27
ubottuflocculant: akxwi-dave, slickymaster, flocculant, knome20:27
nairwolfYes, I think I would be able to help20:27
nairwolfActually, you want to update the release notes every week, right ? If it's possible to create a task planning to do that, that would be great20:27
nairwolfThis week, I will be in holidays, so away from the computer, and I will not be able to follow new bugs or other things. 20:28
flocculantknome: \o/20:31
flocculantthanks :)20:31
knomenp20:32
flocculantnairwolf: not possible to plan it - depends on what turns up on 1 - tracker, 2 - the other tracker or 3 - bug reports :)20:32
knomeand naturally, PM me again if you want changes to it20:32
flocculantit's a WIP thing20:32
nairwolfok, flocculant. this will be discussed tomorrow during the meeting, right ? 20:32
flocculantknome: ack - unless you happen to see changes :D20:32
knomeflocculant, yep, on channel is good too20:32
flocculantyep20:36
flocculantnairwolf: nope - not on agenda20:36
flocculantits' really a QA issue - which QA will decide on outside of any meeting20:36
flocculantpeople reading the list will become aware of that 20:37
nairwolfok, so I will be informed of that20:37
nairwolfMost of time, I don't really have any opinion. I'm just observing and trying to do the most I can. 20:38
flocculantnairwolf: yup :)20:39
flocculantwhen it's a discussion thing - add your points for sure20:39
flocculantonly time it is a team thing we tend to [TEAM] in topic20:40
nairwolfYes, if it's relevant, I will do it. If it's something I don't have any experience, it's difficult to know which is the best choice. 20:40
flocculantyep20:40
flocculantbasically20:40
flocculantif it = work20:41
nairwolfYes, I've already seen that when you discussed about the media manager20:41
flocculantonly say it's a really good idea when will to do the work :)20:41
nairwolfsorry ? 20:42
nairwolfand by thay, the list you talked was xubuntu-devel, right ? 20:42
flocculantnairwolf: aah s/will/willing20:42
nairwolfs/thay/the way20:42
flocculantyea - dev list20:42
nairwolfok20:43
flocculanthttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-April/011145.html20:43
flocculantfor instance - happy to get 1000's of ideas20:44
flocculant13 people get to decide20:44
nairwolfonly knome has answered to this mail. Maybe you've discussed about that here (#xubuntu-devel), but I wasn't here. 20:46
nairwolfSometimes I think it's pretty hard to follow each discussion and ideas if it's mixed between email and irc. I suppose I should read irclogs each day in order to follow the development ? 20:47
nairwolfs/the development/discussions20:47
flocculantnairwolf: only other comment was on IRC from bluesabre - 'yup - that's fine with me'20:48
flocculantparaphrasing20:48
nairwolfOk, I suppose it will be more developed tomorrow during the meeting. 20:49
nairwolfDon't worry20:50
flocculantnairwolf: no20:53
flocculantit's not even on the agenda - I *might* mention it - but it's not a discussion item :)20:53
nairwolf"milestone participation" is written at : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/20:55
flocculantnairwolf: mea culpa20:58
flocculantish20:59
flocculantnairwolf: no - it's under announcements :D20:59
flocculantcos I am bad man ;)21:01
flocculanthello aaronraimist 21:01
nairwolfhehe, now I see that ;)21:03
aaronraimisthello  flocculant! Do you know what the status of this bug is? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/156860421:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]21:03
nairwolfaaronraimist: It's still present on my system21:04
flocculantaaronraimist: it's still an issue 21:05
flocculantand not really something we can actually fix afaik - 21:06
flocculantthough we can SRU the fix21:06
nairwolfflocculant: what is SRU ?21:07
flocculantstable release update21:07
flocculantnairwolf: if the fix showed up at the end of the wily cycle - we'd do nothing21:08
flocculantif the fix shows up for the xenial cycle - it will likely land21:09
flocculantsame as the thunar issues21:09
nairwolfyes, but we still need to fix it21:09
nairwolfbluesabre told me it's specific to Xubuntu21:09
flocculantaaronraimist: assume you are with intel driver then21:10
aaronraimistflocculant: yes21:10
flocculantnairwolf: yes - but if the problem was during a 9 month cycle - fixing it does not mean the fix would land for that release21:10
flocculant!sru21:10
ubottuStable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates21:10
flocculanthoping :)21:10
nairwolfok, thanks ;)21:12
nairwolfthanks flocculant ;)21:12
knomenairwolf, we're aware certain bugs need fixing - repeating it won't make them fixed21:12
flocculantaaronraimist: sorry - left channel then ... so best thing you can do here is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604/+affectsmetoo21:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]21:13
flocculantand make sure you are subscribed to it - when something is around which fixes the issue - then it'll get a specfic tag added - proposed-fix or something21:14
aaronraimistflocculant: Yeah I already have done that, I just didn't know if there was anything else I could do. Who is responsible for fixing that issue?21:14
flocculantat that point there is a fix in -proposed which you can try21:15
flocculantthis confirms fixes for everyone21:15
flocculantaaronraimist: it's upstream - we think it is with xserver - or at least I do21:15
flocculantI'm on yakkety - so am watching updates - I'll move my laptop over to yakkety - then talk to our tech team21:16
flocculantit's not forgotten :)21:16
flocculantknome: not sure that nairwolf was talking about more than the mechanics of getting a fix landed there :)21:17
nairwolfyes, that's right, flocculant explained what I said correctly. Thank you21:25
flocculantaaronraimist: as far as your bug comment goes - http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/x/xserver-xorg-video-intel/xserver-xorg-video-intel_2.99.917+git20160325-1ubuntu1/changelog we appeared to start seeing the issue after beginning of March21:28
nairwolfflocculant: the link you gave me is really interesting ;)21:28
flocculantnairwolf: sru one ?21:28
nairwolfyes, sru one21:28
flocculantack21:28
flocculantbasically in a normal cycle now - 9 months - unlikely to see vague fixes landing21:29
flocculantaaronraimist: and the last lightlocker change was december - so applying a bit of logic and hope ...21:30
flocculantaaronraimist: if you feel adventurous enough - I actually confirmed locally that setting intel to use uxa instead of sna stopped the problem21:32
nairwolfI've never used a non-LTS version, I've started to 14.04 and now, I'm one 16.0421:33
nairwolfBut, I will move to Yakkety when it will be released21:33
nairwolfFor a non-LTS version, if there is a security issue, I suppose it's something updated, right ? 21:34
flocculanthttps://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=815135#30 and http://askubuntu.com/questions/225356/how-can-i-enable-the-sna-acceleration-method-for-intel-cards-under-ubuntu-12-04 I just changed sna to uxa in the file instead21:34
ubottuDebian bug 815135 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "No cursor displayed" [Normal,Open]21:34
flocculantnairwolf: well - I'd not move from an LTS to a normal if I ran LTS as production - I'd just have a testing partition21:35
flocculantI'm on yakkety already obviously21:35
aaronraimistflocculant: That does appear to fix it for me too21:41
nairwolfI used LTS as production because it was the first time I used Linux. But now, I think I can follow normal releases. 21:42
nairwolfor, I can use yakkety like you maybe21:43
flocculantaaronraimist: awesome - nice to get some confirmation of that - can you post to the LP bug again21:43
flocculantI can confirm that uxa thing21:43
flocculantnairwolf: ok - well what you need to bear in mind here is that in 2 or 3 months I'll have a xenial, broken yak, another broken yak and the one I'm using as installs :p21:44
flocculantaaronraimist: thanks for looking into this btw :)21:45
nairwolfflocculant: you use them in different partitions ? 21:46
flocculantnairwolf: the way I work doesn't really work well if you need PC to actually do things for a job :)21:46
flocculantall I NEED is music and vids mounted :p21:46
flocculantnairwolf: I have *just* today cleared 4 broken installs/partitions21:47
nairwolfI do not use my personal computer for a job, but I want something stable. Or without annoying bug. I do not have enough memory to use different partition for 2 os. So, I'm testing with VM or with my second computer. The second computer isn't used, so it's just something to test distribution on real hardware.  21:54
nairwolfSee you tomorrow for the meeting, I'm gonna sleep soon. 21:54
flocculantnairwolf: hdd or memory is the problem?21:55
knomeflocculant, let's do it here then..21:59
flocculantyup21:59
knomeso you'd like to see results from the QA tracker, right?22:00
flocculantknome: so we know what we both want to achieve I Think22:00
flocculantI would prefer to see tracker result22:00
knomethe QA tracker xmlrpc interface needs work :|22:00
flocculantassuming I get the mp sorted - *I* or !qa would know that the image actually does boot22:01
knomebefore that is done, i don't think it's sensible to pull out the data from that22:01
flocculantthose auto tests are cool - but22:01
flocculantI have booted and installed from an image the autotest has failed22:01
flocculantI trust them not22:02
flocculantso - if !qa isn't convinced of that  - my position would be a real sync and install22:02
flocculantI can commit to doing that22:03
knomeright22:03
flocculantpersonally22:03
knomewell,22:03
knomewe can show the build result anyway22:03
flocculantyup22:03
knomeif we want22:03
knomethat is trivial enough22:03
knomebut getting data out of the QA tracker... oh my..22:03
flocculantknome: generally in my experience if file size is <190kb something is wring22:03
flocculants/wring/wrong22:04
knomeheh22:04
knomeright22:04
knomeprobably, less line22:04
knome+s22:04
flocculantyea22:04
flocculantkrytarik - got anything to add to buildlog sizes? 22:04
flocculantknome: I thought getting tracker info might be pants ... :(22:05
knomelet's put it this way22:05
knomeworking with the xmlrpc backend code isn't horribly hard22:05
knomebut it's not something i want to dig into22:05
flocculant:)22:05
flocculantfair enough22:06
knomeif we could get somebody from the general QA community at least a bit interested in that...22:06
flocculantyea 22:06
knomethe last time i worked with that, it was like22:06
flocculantknome: ok so how about this then22:06
knomedo one request22:06
knomeyou get information bit A22:06
knomethen do another request with that bit22:06
knomeand you get information bit B22:06
flocculant*we* have a file somewhere that !qa can access22:07
knomethen repeat until you get your information bit K22:07
flocculant*we* set yay or nay22:07
knomehmm...22:07
flocculantdev.tracker reads that? 22:07
knomewe can integrate that directly to dev.22:07
knomewould it be true/false/null for each day?22:07
flocculantif yay+yay=gree,. yay+nay=amber, nay+nay=red22:08
flocculantgreen22:08
knomeoh right, multiple votes22:08
flocculantor nay+yay22:08
knomeor do you mean the other would be the build log?22:08
flocculantknome: forget logs22:08
knomeok22:08
knomeso what are the two different things?22:09
flocculantif that was simpler - then as long as I can mp the cron22:09
flocculantI can commit to booting and installing while the kettle blois22:09
knomeas i said, the build log is tricial22:09
flocculantboils22:09
knome*trivial22:09
knomethat's not a/the problem22:10
knomeiso tracker stuff is22:10
flocculantno need if we go this way22:10
knomeok22:10
knomethen explain: you said yay+yay22:10
knomewhat are the data points?22:10
flocculantall we would need to do is commit to editing a file (or even leaving it as it is)22:10
flocculantknome: moving to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntuqa-y-cycle22:11
knomek22:11
flocculantright at the bottom22:11
knomeoh right, the two images22:12
knome>__<22:12
knomewould something like "always light green until confirmed, after which green/red/orange" ?22:12
knomeresetting at midnight22:13
knomeor should the default assumption be the status of the previous day?22:13
flocculantmy mp does 1am for daily/2am for trusty22:13
knomewell think midnight as build time22:13
knomeforget the time thing for now22:14
knomewe can set the cron on dev. to anything22:14
flocculantso if we commit to updating file by 8am ish - by 10 am the tracker will be current - just about the same time as current build time22:14
flocculantknome: ftr any cron I talk about will be cd build (for logs)22:15
flocculantwe just need to make the *file* both -website and -qa writable22:16
flocculantis that a simpler method? 22:16
knomethe simplest method for me - considering we want some data shown on dev - is that we create an UI where you change the stuff you want to show22:17
knomeat this point, it would be touchable by anyone who has a password22:17
flocculantwfm22:17
knomespecifically when we do that, dev. doesn't need to poke any external source22:18
flocculantthat's better imo22:18
knomeit has the status on its database, so it doesn't need any cron22:18
knomeexcept the resetting stuff22:18
knomewell, which is automatic too22:18
flocculantwe have the control then22:18
knome(it just checks if there is a status for today)22:19
flocculantmy cron *issue* is making sure I can sync locally when I get up22:19
flocculantwhich is a seperate issue from -team's22:19
knomebut that's not dev.'s issue?22:19
flocculantnope22:20
knomeack22:20
knomedon't get me wrong... i want to support stuff as good as i can22:20
knomebut i'm mostly only worried about the work i need to do :D22:20
flocculantI'll do the mp - then talk to adam conrad22:20
knomei'll try to get this implemented early next week22:20
flocculantknome: yup :)22:20
flocculantyou are in !qa 22:20
flocculant:p22:20
knomeor tomorrow if i'm productive22:20
flocculantnow22:20
knomesure, but that's a different worry :P22:20
flocculantthis you do have a worry over :)22:21
knomeof course i always have worries over many things :P22:21
knomebut related to this specific issue, my main concern is to get the dev. code in order22:21
flocculanthttp://i.imgur.com/IHJvTWr.png22:22
knomeyeah?22:22
flocculantI'd REALLY like it in that line :~)22:22
knomeindeed, it will be there22:22
flocculant\o/22:22
knomeor do you mean the status itself?22:22
nairwolfflocculant: I have ssd so I don't have so much space. But maybe I should be able to reserve some place in the second ssd I have, I'll see22:22
flocculantknome: 64:green/amber/red 32:green/amber/red22:23
flocculantis my vision22:23
knomeok, what's amber?22:23
flocculantknome: one arch failed22:23
knomebut... 64 is one arch22:24
knomeso why 64 would have amber if 32 failed?22:24
flocculantbecause 1 failed22:24
knome(since you can see that 32 is red)22:24
flocculantoh yea22:24
knome:D22:24
flocculantmmm22:24
knomeso my vision is22:24
flocculantso green/red then :)22:24
knomelight green -> unconfirmed status (from last confirmed status)22:25
knomegreen -> confirmed pass22:25
knomelight red -> unconfirmed fail22:25
knomered -> confirmed fail22:25
knomethat for both of the arches separately22:25
knomeand unconfirmed is automatic, so you only have two statuses to worry about in the UI22:25
flocculantknome: brb22:26
knomemhm22:26
flocculantknome: ok 22:33
flocculantso then unless *someone*edits file to equal something other than pass - icons are both green?22:34
nairwolfsee you tomorrow, good night22:34
flocculantis that what you're saying?22:34
knomeflocculant, unless nobody edits, then the icons are light green/red, based on the last confirmed status22:34
knomeso if you confirmed pass today, tomorrow it'd be light green until you confirm anything22:35
knome(=assuming same status)22:35
flocculantthen darker?22:35
knomedarker when confirmed22:36
flocculantok22:36
knomeso think light as in 0.5 opacity (or so)22:36
flocculant- so just to tie this up now22:36
flocculantassuming build 22:36
flocculantassuming pas22:36
flocculantdark colour22:36
knomeno22:36
knome:D22:36
* flocculant pours beer22:37
knomei'll write something on the pad22:37
flocculantknome: you write stuff on pad22:37
flocculantha ha 22:37
knomeok, there's all the alternatives now22:39
flocculantyup there now22:39
knomeassuming it's "tuesday" now22:39
flocculantyep22:39
knomeand "always assume build is up"22:40
knomeunless you want to do something else22:40
flocculantknome: that looks good to me - thanks for working through what we can do in-house here :)22:43
flocculantand tia for getting it on the tracker :p22:43
knomesure22:43
knomeand we can do more22:43
knomein certain limits22:43
knomebut let's get this done first..22:43
flocculantmeh22:45
knomewhat? :D22:46
flocculanthow the hell did I manage to find this to pull from lol 22:46
knomethis? :P22:46
flocculantthe cron thingy22:46
flocculant:D22:46
knome;)22:46
flocculantoh meh - this is just a maze in launchpad ... 22:49
knome:)22:50
* flocculant just ask infinity where to pull from :p22:50
knomeda finger :P22:50
flocculantanyway - once that's done all we should really worry about is dev daily - so shouldn't make any difference to the bones of what we talked about22:54
flocculantjust means that at some point - hiccup22:54
knome:)22:57
flocculantknome: ok mp done, hopefully desc of change makes some sense https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/ubuntu-cdimage/x-build-time/+merge/29348923:31
knomeflocculant, looks good enough23:35
flocculant:)23:36
flocculantcan do no more I suppose 23:36
knomeindeed23:36
flocculantknome: I assume that this doesn't stop us proving 23:38
knomeno23:38
flocculantassumed not - stupid question really :)23:39
flocculantand only slickymaster and akxwi to tell for the time being23:40
flocculantwhen live23:41

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