[04:23] <CheeryLee> Yep, cm 12 is android 5
[04:23] <CheeryLee> But in fact I have 3.0 kernel, not 3.4
[05:20] <CheeryLee> So does it means that I can't porting UT on my device with 3.0 kernel?
[09:47] <AuroraAvenue> https://redd.it/4hjrcr $250 bounty.
[10:02] <mcphail> Interesting. The bq 4.5 running Android has a few similar network issues to the bq 4.5 running Ubuntu. I wonder if they are hardware related rather than software?
[11:25] <cc> is there anyone using ubuntu phone?i want to know how many applications can be used on it
[11:26] <cc> weechat,qq,msn,irc,alipay
[11:29] <davmor2> cc: you can go to https://uappexplorer.com/ a lot will be webapps of some sort, chatter is irc client though
[11:30] <cc> davmor2 thanks
[12:22] <CheeryLee> Is there anyone who can help with porting?
[12:45] <lotuspsychje> CheeryLee: there's a porting guide in topic, and the XDA forums might be usefull for existing projects aswell
[12:46] <CheeryLee> No, my porting process ended successfully
[12:46] <CheeryLee> But now the system doesn't want to start, because my kernel too old!
[12:47] <lotuspsychje> CheeryLee: wich kernel is that
[12:47] <CheeryLee> 3.0.101
[12:47] <CheeryLee> And I have no newer version
[12:50] <lotuspsychje> not sure whats recommended
[12:51] <CheeryLee> Yesterday I got answer that I should use 3.4.
[13:05] <matv1> kyleN https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-scopes-project/+bug/1577767
[13:05] <matv1> hope that's usefull as a starting point
[13:29] <SanderKSmit> is it possible to remove the phone and SMS app on the M10 tablet?
[13:30] <ogra_> SanderKSmit, they will vanish in the next OTA
[13:30] <ogra_> (there is a tracking bug somewhere)
[13:31] <SanderKSmit> great! thanx for the reply ogra_
[13:32] <SanderKSmit> how can i contribute to the development by eg submitting testresults and problems/wishes?
[13:35] <CheeryLee> Does it turns out that I can't run UT without kernel version 3.4?
[13:37] <ogra_> you need the apparmor patches, else you wont be able to execute any apps
[13:37] <ogra_> and you need a good bunch of config options enabled ... might be that some of them are not available with any kernels smaller than 3.4
[13:38] <CheeryLee> No-no-no, I know this. My kernel panics after initrd
[13:38] <CheeryLee> It says FATAL: kernel too old
[13:38] <ogra_> interesting, i wonder where that message comes from
[13:38] <ogra_> l(most likely not from any ubuntu bits)
[13:38] <dobey> i am incredibly surprised that an android 5 tree would have a 3.0 kernel
[13:40] <ogra_> SanderKSmit, see the "Bug filing" link in the channel topic ... "whishes2 would just be bugs marked as wishlist
[13:40] <CheeryLee> No, not Android. It's just custom build that uses 3.0 kernel, because there is no other version
[13:41] <CheeryLee> Samsung officially KitKat build based on 3.0 too
[13:41] <dobey> CheeryLee: cm12 is based on android 5, no?
[13:41] <dobey> yes, kitkat is too old though
[13:41] <CheeryLee> Yep, CM 12 is based on it.
[13:41] <dobey> err, wait
[13:41] <dobey> now i'm confused
[13:42] <CheeryLee> Let me explain
[13:42] <ogra_> "now"
[13:42] <ogra_> ?
[13:42] <embrik> is it possible to watch netflix on ubuntu phone?
[13:42] <ogra_> embrik, i doubt that ... since it needs DRM support from the browser ...
[13:42] <dobey> well, or an app from netflix
[13:43] <ogra_> which would be a browser/webview with adeed DRM support :)
[13:43] <dobey> well, a custom build of chrome probably
[13:43] <embrik> ogra_: and dobey : ok, thanks, better watch films on ipad then :-(
[13:44] <ogra_> you could perhaps steam binary bits from chromeos :)
[13:44] <embrik> dobey: but chrome isn't avaliable is it?
[13:44] <CheeryLee> dobey, Samsung released 3.0 version on smdk 4412 as last version. No updates from 2012. This kernel is used by CyanogenMod images from 4.4 to 6.0.
[13:44] <ogra_> and glue something together yourself with duct tape
[13:44] <dobey> embrik: there isn't a general chrome build of arm, no
[13:45] <CheeryLee> CM works fine with it
[13:45] <ogra_> dobey, well, there is an arm OS built around it :)
[13:46] <dobey> ogra_: yes, but you can't go to download an armhf.deb of chrome
[13:46] <CheeryLee> I recently looked at Ubuntu Touch tarball and noticed that some programs requires 3.2 kernel.
[13:46] <ogra_> no, but you can for example install an ubuntu on a chromebook and mangle the pepper plugin into your ubuntu chromium to have full flash support
[13:47]  * ogra_ did that before ... 
[13:47] <dobey> ogra_: yes, but that doesn't help anyone use chrome on an ubuntu phone ;)
[13:47] <dobey> and iirc, netflix isn't using flash
[13:47] <ogra_> indeed
[13:47] <ogra_> that was just an example
[13:48] <CheeryLee> My situation is very surprising. :D
[13:48] <ogra_> i assume there are hacks you could use to make it work ... by stealing chromeOS nbinary blobs
[13:48] <dobey> ogra_: sure. but chrome is on android too and that's arm :)
[13:48] <ogra_> thats android :P
[13:48] <ogra_> bionic world ...
[13:49] <ogra_> doesnt help much on actual linux userspace
[13:49] <dobey> ogra_: maybe. but not sure if oxide does enough to use them
[13:49] <ogra_> most likely not ...
[13:49] <ogra_> but hey, the oxide source is out there :)
[13:49] <dobey> ogra_: and "buy a chromebook then try to find the pieces to copy off and then hope they would work" is not a good answer to "can i watch netflix on ubuntu phone" :)
[13:50] <ogra_> just saying ... it is surely not impossible ... but a LOT** of work
[13:51] <CheeryLee> Guys, maybe I need update kernel source tree or the game not worth the candles?
[13:52] <dobey> well, and advising people to buy another $200+ device and steal proprietary binaries off it, is not nice, regardless of possibility :)
[13:52] <dobey> CheeryLee: right, it sounds like your kernel is too old :)
[13:52] <ogra_> yeah, try getting 3.4 or newer
[13:52] <dobey> not sure what requires at least 3.2 exactly
[13:53] <ogra_> udev perhaps ... or upstart
[13:53] <dobey> but cm12 should be 3.10 anyway
[13:53] <ogra_> yeah
[13:53] <CheeryLee> No, upstart requires at least 2.6
[13:54] <ogra_> there might be options it uses from newer kernels
[13:54] <CheeryLee> Mount, for example
[13:54] <CheeryLee> It want 3.2
[13:54] <ogra_> mount ??
[13:54] <CheeryLee> Wants*
[13:54] <CheeryLee> Yep
[13:54] <dobey> seccomp requires newer kernel for sure
[13:54] <ogra_> mount shouldnt care about the kernel version ...
[13:55] <CheeryLee> Justed watched
[13:55] <CheeryLee> Just*
[13:55] <ogra_> (perhaps some options in fstab ... but definitely not mount itself)
[13:55] <CheeryLee> for GNU/Linux 3.2.0
[13:55] <CheeryLee> STOP
[13:56] <CheeryLee> All programs that requires 3.2 kernel are available from boot.img!
[13:56] <CheeryLee> What a hell?
[13:56] <lotuspsychje> CheeryLee: calm down please
[13:57] <CheeryLee> Sorry
[13:57] <lotuspsychje> CheeryLee: they trying to help you here
[13:58] <CheeryLee> Why I can't replace tarball programms with progtamms from boot initramfs?
[13:58] <dobey> like ogra_ said, i doubt mount itself requires 3.2, but some options might
[13:58] <CheeryLee> Interesting that mount from initramfs works fine
[13:59] <CheeryLee> What should be after touch script execution?
[14:00] <ogra_> yeah, rather a filesystem than a mount thing
[14:01] <ogra_> after the touch script assembled the rootfs with all its different mount layers the initrd calls run-init from klibc and switches to the rootfs
[14:01] <CheeryLee> Where is run-init located?
[14:03] <CheeryLee> Already found
[14:04] <CheeryLee> Err, run-init is a link to klibc, right?
[14:08] <ogra_> it is a binary
[14:09] <CheeryLee> Oh, really, I misunderstood
[14:10] <CheeryLee> In init script after exec run-init write panic "Could not execute run-init." Is it normal?
[14:13] <ogra_> well, that means that run-init couldnt be executed for some reason
[14:13] <ogra_> (most oftenn because you have a broken /dev/console in your kernel ... )
[14:14] <CheeryLee> No, you don't understand me. It writes in init script
[14:14] <CheeryLee> The last string
[14:19] <CheeryLee> By the way i have no /dev/console in my kernel
[14:20] <ogra_> fix that then, thats most likely the reason for your panic
[14:20] <CheeryLee> Err, previous build form another person has no it too
[14:20] <CheeryLee> And it works
[14:21] <ogra_> i doubt that
[14:21] <ogra_> run.init will not work if there isnt a proper console device
[14:24] <CheeryLee> Just rewatched
[14:25] <ogra_> it has to have some kind of console ..
[14:25] <CheeryLee> It's build has no /dev/console
[14:26] <cc> anyone use ubuntu phone now?
[14:27] <CheeryLee> Ohh, I think I will never be able to build UT successfully. :((
[14:31] <ogra_> CheeryLee, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ContainerArchitecture see the first paragraph .. there are links to hacks i used to get a console on a galaxy S2
[14:33] <sergiusens> oSoMoN I have on xenial the webbrowser-app as my main browser; if I use the webapp-container for anything else it opens as a tab in the main browser window. If I open a container instance first, opening the webbrowser app opens a new tab in the container instance. Is this known
[14:33] <sergiusens> I asked a week ago, but I guess it got lost in the pool of text :-)
[14:34] <ogra_> oSoMoN, that sounds like a really bad security bug
[14:36] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, huh, that’s unexpected indeed, would you mind filing a bug? I’ll look into it right away
[14:36] <oSoMoN> and yeah, that sounds like a bad one
[14:37] <sergiusens> oSoMoN sure
[14:37]  * sergiusens opens the onair video somewhere else
[14:40] <CheeryLee> So, /dev/console located in tarball, not in boot image
[14:44] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, how do you invoke the webapp container when it results in opening a new browser tab?
[14:44] <sergiusens> oSoMoN like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/+junk/slack-webapp/files
[14:45] <ogra_> CheeryLee, i'm not talking about whats in /dev but what your kernel does
[14:46] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, I can reproduce the issue here, and I think I know what’s going on, bug report welcome anyway, to track the issue
[14:46] <sergiusens> oSoMoN great, I will log it without a video then :-)
[14:49] <sergiusens> oSoMoN https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webbrowser-app/+bug/1577806
[14:50] <oSoMoN> thanks
[14:51] <sergiusens> mhall119 that is the question I asked that you asked me to explain more ^
[14:51] <CheeryLee> It's very intersting. Saucy has mount that requires 2.6 kernel
[14:53] <mhall119> sergiusens: ?
[14:53] <ogra_> the bug :)
[14:54] <sergiusens> mhall119 I asked you about webcontainer and webbrowser app instances a week ago or so ;-)
[14:55] <mhall119> if you say so
[14:56] <davmor2> mhall119: don't act like you've been alseep since then and have no idea what he is on about
[15:04] <mpt> My phone has been pretending to start up for the past ten minutes and now I am sad
[15:05] <mpt> It shows the “ubuntu” logo and moving dots and never gets beyond that. Any ideas?
[15:07] <ogra_> weas there an update you installed ?
[15:08] <ogra_> (it might be re-creating apparmor profiles ... that can take 10-20min depending on the amount of apps you have installed)
[15:12] <CheeryLee> It maybe stupid question, but if I change kernel version in Makefile... does the kernel run?
[15:13] <dobey> mpt: either it's just taking a while after applying a full update and regenerating the apparmor profiles and such, or something keeps crashing and won't let it boot
[15:13] <ogra_> dobey, well, then it would force-reboot itself ...
[15:13] <ogra_> not just hang
[15:14] <dobey> ogra_: not necessarily
[15:15] <dobey> ogra_: the force-reboot stuff is time based; if the crashes happen slowly enough to make the count not fulfill the requirement, the phone won't reboot
[15:15] <dobey> ogra_: apparmor constantly being run can cause the crashes to happen more slowly
[15:24] <mpt> ogra_, I didn’t install an update. Does that rule out apparmor profiles?
[15:25] <ogra_> kind of, yeah
[15:29] <mpt> ogra_, dobey: The only other clue is that at random intervals (~5 seconds, ~8s, ~27s, ~13s, ~62s…) the screen flashes black momentarily
[15:30] <ogra_> mpt, looks like Mir cant start then
[15:30] <mpt> aha
[15:35] <mpt> Same after a force-restart … guess I’ll have to reflash it
[15:36] <ogra_> well, grab john-mcaleely top tell you want logs he needs first :)
[15:39] <john-mcaleely> ?
[15:40] <ogra_> john-mcaleely, mpt is left with a non-booting phone ... seems Mir tries to start but fails in a loop
[15:40] <john-mcaleely> mir is not me :-)
[15:41] <ogra_> (i thought you might want him to grab some logs before re-flashing ... prehaps)
[15:41] <john-mcaleely> mpt, logs are only useful if you have only ever OTA updated, and never installed silos or other previews
[15:42] <mpt> john-mcaleely, I have never 0:-)
[15:42] <ogra_> sucha cute little halo :)
[15:42] <john-mcaleely> mpt, ok, logs & a bug would be very useful
[15:43] <mpt> john-mcaleely, happy to. Where may I find instructions understandable by a lowly designer?
[15:43] <mpt> (e.g. which files)
[15:43] <john-mcaleely> mpt, here's the gory details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Bugs
[15:44] <john-mcaleely> contents of /var/crash attached here with notes on how it happened:
[15:44] <john-mcaleely> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+filebug
[15:44] <john-mcaleely> thanks mpt
[15:55] <mpt> john-mcaleely, is it possible for “phablet-shell” to run when Mir hasn’t started?
[15:56] <mpt> It says “* daemon started successfully *” but never gives me a prompt
[15:56]  * mpt smells a catch-22
[15:57] <john-mcaleely> mpt, I don't think they are tied. try adb shell instread, but if it errors, lets stop going down the rabbit hole
[15:57] <john-mcaleely> mpt, oh
[15:57] <john-mcaleely> just retry
[15:57] <mpt> * daemon started successfully *
[15:57] <mpt> error: device not found
[15:57] <john-mcaleely> phablet-shell takes a few goes sometimes
[15:57] <mpt> ok
[15:57] <john-mcaleely> (it starts something, that takes time before it responds)
[15:58] <mpt> Unable to open MTP device '[usb:001,003]'
[15:58] <john-mcaleely> hmm. very borked
[15:59] <john-mcaleely> two options: hand device to ondra, and see if he has time to debug (maybe source a replacement)
[16:00] <john-mcaleely> or, walk away, and reflash to restore
[16:00] <john-mcaleely> mpt, ^
[16:00] <dobey> probably better to reboot to recovery and then grab logs from there over adb
[16:00] <john-mcaleely> dobey, yeah, but you need to flash a new recovery to get adb
[16:00] <john-mcaleely> so, quite complex
[16:00] <dobey> yes
[16:01] <davmor2> john-mcaleely, mpt: adb won't work you would need to drop into fastboot mode and flash recovery with adb
[16:01] <john-mcaleely> yup
[16:01] <dobey> but a continually crashing unity8 kills i/o, so it's basically impossible to shell into
[16:01] <jdstrand> ogra_: you keep saying 10-20 minutes. It isn't that long any more :) It should be <5 with a lot of apps installed (see previous email thread and bug report)
[16:01] <dobey> especially if developer mode wasn't enabled and the phone isn't required to allow adb without screen unlock
[16:02] <davmor2> john-mcaleely: because of the new way that ubuntu is enabling adb you need to be on the system first to enable adb to be able to access the system :(
[16:02] <dobey> plus, if it's a device where the key hasn't been accepted, you won't get the notification to accept the key :)
[16:03] <mpt> john-mcaleely, I took the first option :-)
[16:03] <john-mcaleely> mpt, very good!
[16:03] <john-mcaleely> thank you
[16:14] <ondra> john-mcaleely it was not issue with mir, mir was running fine
[16:15] <ondra> john-mcaleely there was pending OTA, which sorted boot issue
[16:15] <john-mcaleely> ondra, so the UI was a bit odd then
[16:16] <ondra> john-mcaleely it was stack in Ubuntu boot anim
[16:17] <john-mcaleely> odd
[16:17] <ondra> john-mcaleely yep
[16:51] <ogra_> I wonder why it blnked then
[16:52] <ogra_> jdstrand, indeed, my bad... that timing is stuck in my head
[16:58] <rvr> ogra_: I'm trying to get ubuntu touch to recognize an arduino. First thing I see is that lsusb doesn't show anything when I connect the device. And probably, ftdi kernel module is not avaible. Suggestions?
[16:59] <ogra_> Not really.... apart fem... Build that module and file a bug
[16:59] <ogra_> *from
[17:01] <dobey> rvr: usb-serial adapter drivers are indeed not built in the kernel
[17:01] <rvr> dobey: :(
[17:01] <dobey> rvr: indeed. i have need for ftdi and keyspan; but alas, no drivers
[17:01] <ogra_> at least for the M10 we should enable a good bunch of additional modules
[17:02] <dobey> why only for the m10?
[17:02] <dobey> can we build modules that aren't in the boot.img somehow?
[17:02] <ogra_> Because it is more a 1x1 laptop replacement than the phones
[17:03] <ogra_> Why not
[17:03] <ogra_> the source is there, you should always be able to insmod them
[17:03] <dobey> i don't know. i'm not an android-in-a-container expert
[17:03] <dobey> that's why i'm asking :)
[17:03] <ogra_> has nothing to do with containers
[17:04] <ogra_> Ubuntu runs natively on the kernel
[17:04] <dobey> and afaik, the boot.img has to be limited to a size
[17:04] <dobey> ogra_: right, but the kernel isn't built in the archive
[17:04] <dobey> ogra_: because yay proprietary kernel stuffs
[17:04] <ogra_> if you have a .ko you should be able to just insmod... If the symbols match
[17:05] <greyback> enabling loadable module support would at least allow it
[17:05] <ogra_> And a ko can just be built from the kernel source
[17:05] <dobey> so we'd need to build the modules, stick them in i guess the device tarball, and then unpack those into the root fs?
[17:05] <ogra_> greyback, it should be enabld
[17:05] <ogra_> iirc ufw requires even that we have  modules
[17:06] <greyback> ogra_: I've not checked M10. All our phone kernels have it disabled
[17:06] <ogra_> what ?!?!?!
[17:06] <ogra_> thats a serious bug then
[17:06] <jdstrand> /usr/share/ufw/check-requirements tells you what is missing for it to work
[17:07] <ogra_> dobey, nah, you can just insmod from ./
[17:07] <greyback> I hit that when trying to enable kernel & gpu profiling tooling
[17:07] <jdstrand> and it is a serious bug if we don't have netfilter configured for the kernel
[17:07] <dobey> ogra_: i presume we want udev modprobe magic to work though, no?
[17:07] <ogra_> jdstrand, we might... but seemingly not as modules
[17:07] <jdstrand> oh, some phone kernels have module loading disabled
[17:07] <jdstrand> but so long as netfilter is configured, that is ok
[17:07] <ogra_> jdstrand, seems all of them... Which is really bad
[17:08] <greyback> ogra_: I might be wrong about _all_
[17:08] <ogra_> I wonder who decided that
[17:08] <ogra_> it took us weeks to get the infrastructure for modules right in the device tarball
[17:08] <ogra_> odd that this isn't used
[17:09] <ogra_> but yeah, I don't see the bind mount in /lib/modules that should be there
[17:10] <dobey> anyway, break time; might as well use it for a break :)
[17:10] <ogra_> so there is no way to make attached usb devices work ever
[17:10] <ogra_> :((((
[17:10] <dobey> ogra_: my mp3 player works fine over otg :)
[17:10] <ogra_> Because it dosnt use a module
[17:11] <dobey> some devices work, most don't
[17:11] <ogra_> yeah
[17:11] <ogra_> really bad
[17:11] <rvr> The usb keyboard works
[17:11] <dobey> yeah it's not nice
[17:11] <davmor2> dobey: because it uses mtp I guess
[17:11] <ogra_> especially since it was designed differently
[17:11] <dobey> davmor2: no. it's just a disk
[17:12] <dobey> anyway, lunch break :)
[17:12] <ogra_> so just usb-storage
[17:12] <dobey> yeah
[17:12] <greyback> I doubt there's much real consistency between the kernel configs of the devices we ship tbh
[17:12] <ogra_> well, but there is infrastructure to support modules... We should really use it
[17:13] <greyback> +1
[17:13] <ogra_> we desigbed it mwith the guy who wants to load home built extra modules in mind back then
[17:14] <ogra_> like android lets you load modules at the bare minimum via insmod with a path
[17:15] <rvr> ogra_: Would be possible to ship modules on a click app?
[17:16] <rvr> I guess it would, but won't have the permissions to make the kernel load it
[17:18] <ogra_> Yeah
[17:18] <ogra_> you could ship it but not load
[17:40] <kurros_> does the browser use a different useragent on the m10/tablet vs the phones?
[17:42] <kurros> can't get plex to play video on the m10. it detects the session as Safari so I'm thinking its using some safari-ism that oxide doesn't like
[17:43] <kurros> but there is a webapp in the store so it ostensibly works on other devices
[18:05] <PaulfraOSAA> kurros: The browser used in click is qt webkit, since webkit is also used in safari it is assumed that it must be a safari browser
[18:06] <dobey> PaulfraOSAA: it is not qt webkit
[18:06] <dobey> it's oxide, which is based on chromium content api
[18:07] <PaulfraOSAA> ok, I stand corrected
[18:10] <pmcgowan> we specify the UA string and it is different on tablet kurros
[18:11] <kurros> is the list of quirk UAs in an editable file?
[18:17] <pmcgowan> kurros, let me look its in a js file somewhere
[18:19] <dobey> kurros: you can override it in a webapp
[18:19] <dobey> kurros: so if there is a webapp in the store, it might be doing that
[18:20] <kurros> yeah the app doesn't work either. good to know, though. i'll ping the guy and see if he can add a tablet UA override.
[18:20] <kurros> he's got a bunch of unfair 1 star reviews now
[18:22] <pmcgowan> yeah thats the best way
[19:31] <ahoneybun> mhall119 what is band aids for ubuntu on touch devices?
[19:39] <dobey> ahoneybun: similar to papercuts
[19:39] <dobey> ahoneybun: join the session :)
[19:39] <ahoneybun> the Ubuntu GNOME one is going on AT<
[19:39] <ahoneybun> ATM
[19:39] <ahoneybun> waiting for it dobey
[19:40] <dobey> oh
[19:41] <ahoneybun> would love for somemore work on tablet side :)
[19:41]  * ahoneybun has N7 
[19:50] <dobey> ahoneybun: is for general software issues, not device-spcific things though :)
[19:50] <ahoneybun> yea but helpful for us all
[20:23] <founderio> Anyone know if Canonical is aware of the disaster going on with the sale of Meizu Pro 5 Ubuntu Edition?
[20:23] <founderio> The announcement in the last ubuntu insights does not look like it..
[20:30] <JanC> founderio: what do you mean?
[20:31] <kurros> about JD only selling the gold version, maybe
[20:31] <founderio> Availability only in Gold... yep
[20:32] <founderio> and their.. very.. high quality support..
[20:33] <founderio> I mean.. the announcements are so positive and all -> then the disappointment when I look at the Q&A section
[20:35] <founderio> Also.. why gold.. Is that an official decision, or just JD doing weird stuff? (I'd say selling the black version probably reaches more customers...)
[20:37] <kurros> probably just JD. dunno why they are the only non-china distributor this time around
[20:37] <kurros> meizu probably doesn't care
[20:37] <founderio> as far as i understood it, the meizu pro 5 ubuntu is *exclusively* available from JD
[20:37] <founderio> and no, they don't care..
[20:37] <kurros> outside of china, yes
[20:37] <founderio> I already tried ubuntusales@meizu.com
[20:38] <founderio> no reply from them...
[20:38] <founderio> almost a week and not even a "we received your message"
[20:38] <kurros> they did a weird arrangement with the MX4 for europe, i guess it wasn't worth continuing that
[20:39] <kurros> i think the MX4 was the first time they sold anything outside of china
[20:39] <founderio> well all the "regular" current models are, as far as I can tell, available on amazon (.de)
[20:39] <founderio> Not all available yet, but still..
[20:40] <founderio> As stated above.. Does Canonical know? (or even care?) This hits the image of ubuntu quite a bit if I were to guess..
[20:43] <kurros> i think its out of their hands, unfortunately
[20:44] <founderio> I'll try to reach out to them.. If you want to follow a long / spread the word [or just laugh at the outcome ;)] feel free: https://twitter.com/founderio_dhx/status/727596128066260992
[20:44] <founderio> might be, but they still may care.. or try to prevent that in the future
[20:44] <kurros> maybe time for a flight to shanghai? :)
[20:45] <founderio> uhm.. sure.. you free on the weekend? ;)
[20:46] <kurros> hopefully other OEM/ODMs will take note
[20:46] <ogra_> The gold is a choice from meizu.... Canonical has no influence on that
[20:46] <kurros> i'd be happy for any official ubuntu phone that worked in the US at this point
[20:47] <k1l> "invest in gold" they said :)
[20:47] <ogra_> :)
[20:47] <founderio> doesn't it? "officially" it is "world wide" with "free shipping" aaaand advertised in black..
[20:47] <founderio> heh, yah..
[20:47] <kurros> yeah i think the problem is that canonical's blog posts and such have shown the black model
[20:48] <founderio> still, I need a new phone.. and since I am on this channel you probably know which system I'd like on that piece of tech..
[20:48] <founderio> and yes, would it be an agreed choice made between Meizu AND Canonical, my sentiments would be better I guess...
[20:49] <ogra_> Buy a gold one and get it painted  ;)
[20:49] <dobey> black spray paint: $3.99
[20:49] <kurros> hehe
[20:49] <founderio> you forget... new display without paint: $299 ;)
[20:49] <kurros> BeDazzle it
[20:50]  * ogra_ is sure there must be professional offers to get a good paint job for a phone
[20:50] <dobey> newspapers and paint are cheap. it's called masking :)
[20:52] <founderio> to be honest, the color is probably the least problem.. I just fear that this whole affair -> and the obviously "top notch" customer support "Thank you for your support for JD!" -> will cast a bad light on something that is already very dim lit (i.e. not known to many people).. And if ubuntu-touch is discontinued due to that bad light... back to Android? iOS? the dark side?
[21:00] <ogra_> Ubuntu on phones wont be discontinued
[21:01] <founderio> a) nobody can guarantee that
[21:01] <founderio> but b) I ceartainly hope so
[21:01] <dobey> a) it's open source
[21:01] <ogra_> It is just another formbfactor of the xesktop code
[21:01] <dobey> b) so it will only be "discontinued" if nobody ever builds any images for phones :)
[21:01] <ogra_> desktop
[21:02] <founderio> true..
[21:02] <founderio> agh.. frustrating
[21:04] <ogra_> there will definitely be images for a long time still ...
[21:05] <ogra_> it isnt the userbase that counts ... else we would have stopped doing desktop long ago :)
[21:06] <founderio> since we are already on this topic.. I've had a bit of a look around.. the info I found seems to indicate that installing ubuntu on - let's just say a nexus - is more like a dev-preview? or is that actually a full-fledged usable version now? (I don't care about fancy stuff.. Phone, wifi, contacts wokr as far as I have seen.. But what are the exact drawbacks?)
[21:06]  * founderio is considering just buying a compatible device with good specs
[21:06] <dobey> drawbacks?
[21:06] <ogra_> fully usable ... all devices use the exactly same rootfs
[21:07] <dobey> i've been using ubuntu on a nexus 5 as my phone for over 2 years
[21:07] <founderio> the page I read told something about "oem specific features"
[21:07] <ogra_> well, ports usually have limitations in HW support
[21:07] <founderio> yeah, but since I want to buy a new phone anyways -> I'll just pick one with the best mix of support & features ;)
[21:07] <ogra_> the N4 as a fully supported device doesnt ... the N5 has its (small) share of issues
[21:08]  * ogra_ would take a MX5pro then
[21:08] <ogra_> you wont find any petter HW ... with better support
[21:08] <ogra_> *better
[21:09] <dobey> would be nice to have a retail device that was snapdragon though
[21:09] <ogra_> the MX5 is
[21:09] <founderio> wait.. MX5 Pro or Pro 5? (there is both??)
[21:10] <ogra_> THE ONE YOU CAN BUY WITH UBUNTU :p
[21:10] <ogra_> EEK
[21:10] <dobey> ogra_: eh?
[21:10] <ralbo> anybody knows a way to have flash install in ubuntu touch?
[21:10] <troyready> Man, the N4 was something really great. The lack of LTE got me to move away from it, but in many ways I miss it
[21:10]  * ogra_ whacks his caps key
[21:10] <dobey> ralbo: adobe flash? no
[21:10] <ogra_> dobey: eh ? ?
[21:10] <ralbo> bummer ;(
[21:10]  * founderio is confused
[21:11] <ralbo> any other options?
[21:11] <dobey> don't use flash?
[21:11] <dobey> ogra_: the mx5 is what?
[21:11] <founderio> ralbo: configure your browser to pretend to be an iPad -> *ding* -> HTML5 Videos
[21:12] <ralbo> Im trying to use spotify web, I cannt becuse of flash, what can I use instead?
[21:12] <ogra_> dobey: oh, sorry, it is exynos ... i thought it was snapdragon
[21:12] <dobey> ogra_: that's samsung right?
[21:12] <ogra_> yep
[21:12] <ogra_> same as the S7 i think
[21:12] <ralbo> founderio: thanks!!
[21:13] <founderio> ralbo: just an idea.. might not work!
[21:13] <ogra_> usually does :)
[21:13] <founderio> it does work with various news sites
[21:13] <dobey> isn't there a spotify webapp in the store?
[21:13] <ogra_> many webapps use that trick too :)
[21:13] <founderio> hhehe
[21:13] <ralbo> yeah but you need to have the upgrade version
[21:13] <dobey> or there was some other qml app that did spotify i think
[21:13] <mariogrip> dobey: should i release the battery fix, or release the 5.1 in about a week (much better battery then 4.4)
[21:14] <ogra_> but it indeed depends on teh site ... and how hardcore safari teh features are they use
[21:14] <dobey> mariogrip: yes to both? ;)
[21:14] <ogra_> lol
[21:14] <ogra_> yeah, stop slacking ... do both :P
[21:14] <dobey> lol, i wonder what happened to my phone
[21:15] <dobey> obviously hasn't been an update in a few days, but for some reason my battery isn't almost dead today
[21:15] <dobey> still at ~77% after 8 hrs off the charger
[21:15] <ogra_> buy a new one, this is broken
[21:16] <mariogrip> dobey: I removed some part in android that had a wakelock + took battery
[21:16] <dobey> mariogrip: i guess you got 5.1 booted on a n5?
[21:16] <mariogrip> that was about a week ago
[21:16] <dobey> mariogrip: well, my phone has still been pretty bad with battery, so either that wasn't in an update or you're asking about releasing a different battery fix :)
[21:17] <mariogrip> dobey: yeah 5.1 it's running fine, but I have to test it more before release it on the server, I don't want to break devices or break some parts that they had before 5.1
[21:18] <mariogrip> dobey: no, the new battery fix is a new "updated" kernel
[21:18] <dobey> mariogrip: does 5.1 provide some better clues to bluetooth btw?
[21:18] <mariogrip> yes :)
[21:18] <dobey> yay!
[21:19] <dobey> mariogrip: yeah, if you have an updated kernel that fixes battery for 4.4, pushing it now would be good, and 5.1 in a week or so would be fine
[21:20]  * founderio just ordered Meizu PRO5SB32GB
[21:20] <mariogrip> sure, i can do that, but I need to add apparmor patch to the new kernel first
[21:20] <founderio> Now how to skip forward to Monday...
[21:20] <mariogrip> founderio: yey \o/
[21:21] <dobey> mariogrip: ok. thanks for all the work on it :)
[21:21] <mariogrip> founderio: download, libtimetravel and run that with skiptime.snap
[21:21] <mariogrip> dobey: np :)
[21:21] <dobey> time is an illusion
[21:21] <dobey> lunch time doubly so
[21:22] <founderio> mariogrip: aww dammit..
[21:22] <founderio> I'm still on 15.10 :(
[21:23] <ogra_> founderio: welcome to the club :)
[21:23] <founderio> tx
[21:24] <mariogrip> :P ogra_  has magic power, so he can probably teleport the device to you :) hehe :P
[21:24] <ogra_> (of meizu owners, not of 15.10 users)
[21:24] <founderio> guessed as much ;)
[21:24] <ogra_> mariogrip: you wish ... then i would have mine already
[21:24] <founderio> about time.. that iOS began bugging me to hell
[21:24]  * ogra_ ia also waiting
[21:24] <ogra_> *is
[21:24] <mariogrip> :)
[21:24] <ogra_> and flying to a snappy sprint on sunday ... i really hope i get it before
[21:25] <founderio> I even took the 32G version.. 64G was not available yet :D
[21:25] <ogra_> i doubt there will be any other offers then this one
[21:25] <founderio> the 64G IS listed on amazon.de
[21:25] <mariogrip> oneplus one :) hint hint
[21:25] <ogra_> at least this time around ... probably if meizu does some kind of re-fresh
[21:25] <founderio> just "not available yet"
[21:26] <ogra_> mariogrip: once you have all HW working ;)
[21:26] <founderio> but tbh -> my playlist isn't THAT big, so that should work ;)
[21:26] <founderio> more excited about the OS than about the free space
[21:26] <ogra_> SD cards are cheap
[21:26] <mariogrip> soon soon ogra_  :) 5.1 brings some fixes, just camera and bt left
[21:26] <founderio> also true -> I keep forgetting that.. iOS torture victim here...
[21:27] <mariogrip> I haven't tried iOS,  it seems to be too locked down for me
[21:28]  * ogra_ goes afk to do some non work evening stuff :)
[21:30] <mariogrip> founderio: spotify is coming to the music app, so you stream you playlist (if it was music that you was talking about) then you can save some space
[21:30] <founderio> yes, was talking about music.. but I don't like streaming -> too much hassly in my opinion..
[21:31] <founderio> I just want a music player that plays the music, can sync with ubuntu (rsync, duh.. ;) ) and does not bother me with Apple Music Advertisement EVERY GODDAMN TIME
[21:32] <founderio> so the issue is not really that iOS is too locked down, but rather that I am being treated like an idiot..
[21:36] <mariogrip> founderio: yeah, btw there is no advert on spotify (paid version). but how does iOS do that? is it like, "too simple"?
[21:37] <founderio> the streaming stuff is just my personal preference, I guess.. but thanks for the info.
[21:37] <founderio> iOS does that my assuming that the Apple Solution is the solution for every user
[21:38] <founderio> integration for third party apps is not good sometimes (or even impossible for some specific parts)
[21:38] <founderio> and the default apps do stuff a bit weird sometimes
[21:38] <mariogrip> oh, yeah I have heard that you need a mac to recovery it
[21:38] <founderio> nah, iTunes is enough
[21:38] <founderio> so Mac or Windows
[21:39] <mariogrip> oh, ok then.
[21:39] <founderio> for the regular user that may be enough, but for example the intrgration for caldav & carddav sync is a bit wobbly at times in the default apps
[21:40] <mariogrip> can you remove the default apps? that is something that is a bit annoying on android sometimes, you need root to remove the "bloatware"
[21:40] <founderio> nope
[21:40] <founderio> every iOS user has this folder called "Junk" on their home screen
[21:40] <founderio> with stuff like health, friends, stock info, etc..
[21:41] <founderio> and -> all installed apps are on the home screen, period. (several pages & folders though)
[21:42] <mariogrip> oh, there is no app list like android has right? is't just on the home screen
[21:42] <founderio> yes
[21:42] <founderio> also 1 app == 1 icon
[21:42] <founderio> although there seem to be plugins like adblockers since iOS 9, now.. never looked into it
[21:42] <mariogrip> what happens if you remove the icon (if it works)
[21:42] <popey> you cant
[21:42] <popey> there's a dozen or so you cannot remove
[21:43] <popey> technically you can't remove the default apps on ubuntu either
[21:43] <popey> you can remove the icon, but the partition is RO so the app stays
[21:43] <popey> just hidden
[21:43] <founderio> better than iOS in at least 1 point then ;)
[21:43] <founderio> I can live with hidden
[21:44] <mariogrip> you "can" removed them if you make the system rw, but as i understand you cannot set iOS in rw mode
[21:44] <founderio> and if I miss integration / cooperation between apps there is a good chance I could go ahead and implement it myself I guess...
[21:44] <founderio> well you can set it to rw...
[21:44] <founderio> that is called jailbreaking
[21:45] <founderio> and very much agains what the fruit company thinks "legal"
[21:45] <mariogrip> yeah like root on android, but on ubuntu it's just one command
[21:45] <founderio> well.. wouldn't be ubuntu if it weren't
[21:51] <founderio> I'll be off for today. 10 minutes to Wednesday here ;)
[21:51] <founderio> Good conversation & thanks to all for the help!
[21:51] <mariogrip> same timezone as me then :) thanks for your answer about iOS :)
[21:51] <founderio> anytime.
[21:52] <founderio> I guess I'll poke my head in here sometime.. see you around
[21:52] <mariogrip> see ya :)