[07:06] <diplo> Morning all
[07:13] <MooDoo> morning
[07:24] <SuperMatt> good morning
[07:24] <SuperMatt> it's nice to see we have the good weather back
[07:24] <diplo> You do?!?!?!?!!?
[07:28] <SuperMatt> well, it's a lot better than the rest of the week
[07:29] <diplo> Its not raining here, that's about the most positive part I could say :)
[07:33] <knightwise> mornin peeps
[07:33] <knightwise> how are you doing this fine morning
[07:41] <Myrtti> tired
[07:48] <diplo> tired and sore! But at work, so alls good in the world :D
[07:56] <zmoylan-pi> it's thursday, arthur dent could never get the hang of thursdays...
[07:57] <zmoylan-pi> douglas adams dead 15 years yesterday...
[08:01] <SuperMatt> I always went past his grave in Highgate Cemetary, because there would be lots of pens stuck in the ground
[08:01] <SuperMatt> https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3406/4640037261_d0f1d5e6c6_z.jpg
[08:01] <SuperMatt> much like that
[08:02] <SuperMatt> though now the trend is to put them in a pot
[08:05] <zmoylan-pi> they could ask that people put coloured pencils into the pot which could then be donated to kids hospitals or something
[08:11] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:15] <SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
[08:16] <brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
[08:16] <SuperMatt> zmoylan-pi: that's a good idea, but they're left out quite regularly, so they'd be affected by the elements
[08:16] <SuperMatt> further more, childrens hospitals don't accept anything which cannot be washed with boiling water and sterilised - pencils and crayons would be right out
[08:16] <zmoylan-pi> in ireland a lot of the more popular graves are cleared every night
[08:17] <SuperMatt> I have ~3000 comics which I would *love* to donate to a children's hospital, but it's not allowed
[08:24] <davmor2> Morning all you Wednesday Survivors and Welcome to Thursday :D
[08:25] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Awareness Day!
[08:26] <JamesTait> Florence Nightingale's birthday, apparently.
[08:26] <JamesTait> http://www.may12th.org/
[08:26] <davmor2> JamesTait: got you covered bro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz64hWng2vM
[08:26] <JamesTait> Blimey, davmor2, am I that predictable?
[08:27] <davmor2> JamesTait: you're a bit early today actually :)
[08:27] <JamesTait> :-O
[08:28] <JamesTait> davmor2, you're right!  I should go back to bed!
[08:28] <Oli> I think the correct response is: A JamesTait is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
[08:29] <davmor2> and just because it's her birthday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiQhh1eT6b4
[08:30] <JamesTait> Or, since it's also Limerick Day: There once was a chap called JamesTait, Who was never early, nor late, He just came online at whatever time, And some days he just couldn't wait.
[08:30] <davmor2> JamesTait: you normally announce yourself around the start of my 10am meeting is the only reason I know so sometime I have to wait till the end of the meeting to grab the link for you :)
[08:32] <JamesTait> davmor2, I had planned to push on with my garage conversion first thing, but since it involves moving my desk to put down a damp-proof membrane and a sheet of plywood I thought I might have been over-optimistic.
[09:13] <zmoylan-pi> you need a floating desk suspended from hydrogen weather balloons... you will need a no smoking sign mind... :-)
[10:20] <davmor2> MooDoo: it's a weird playlist right :)
[10:40] <foobarry> !ping
[10:49] <czajkowski> Aloha
[10:50] <brobostigon> moin
[11:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: howdy stranger by the way your nick is wrong :P
[11:09] <czajkowski> davmor2: not changing that :)
[11:11] <davmor2> hahaha
[11:24] <knightwise> hey peeps
[11:27] <davmor2> knightwise: morning
[11:28] <knightwise> hey davmor2 , hows it hanging
[11:29] <davmor2> knightwise: I made it to Thursday only one more day to go ;)
[11:32] <knightwise> davmor2: yeah ! thank god for that. I'm in zombie mode today too
[11:32] <knightwise> have been giving talks in the evening after work for two days straight
[11:47] <popey> czajkowski: welcome back
[13:17] <czajkowski> popey: thanks
[14:33] <Switches> Well that sounds interesting http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMDGPU-Linux-4.7-Is-Big around 60,000 lines of code...
[14:53] <sebsebseb> hi
[14:53] <Switches> heya
[14:53] <sebsebseb> Switches: hi
[14:55] <davmor2> hello
[14:56] <sebsebseb> davmor2: hi
[15:11] <popey> hello
[15:15] <sebsebseb> popey: hi
[15:26] <sebsebseb> popey: what you been up to?
[15:26] <popey> just setup my bq m10 :)
[15:26] <sebsebseb> popey: oh right nice
[15:26] <sebsebseb> popey: and set up as in what?
[15:26] <sebsebseb> what did you put on it etc
[15:27] <sebsebseb> popey: now we need you to make say 50 more decent quality apps, to make Ubuntu touch as a platform better :d
[15:27] <sebsebseb> so yeah no web apps :)
[15:28] <diddledan> what's wrong with web apps?
[15:28] <popey> some webapps are okay
[15:28] <zmoylan-pi> don't work when web is not around?
[15:28] <sebsebseb> diddledan: they can be ok, but that's what the Ubuntu store mostly still has
[15:28] <popey> good way to keep data siloed from one another
[15:28] <davmor2> sebsebseb: that's not fair, web-apps have there place, for example, facebook twitter and google+ are all pointless apps if you are not on-line
[15:28] <diddledan> I consider cordova as webapp
[15:28] <popey> e.g. they can't track you with their fb cookie if you have a different cookie in each app
[15:29] <sebsebseb> need more native apps though
[15:30] <sebsebseb> things like uhmm well anything reallyk but worth installing :)
[15:30] <sebsebseb> from fun things, to more serious productivity type apps etc
[15:30] <popey> sure, i agree
[15:31] <popey> more apps is always nice
[15:31] <sebsebseb> altough once the convergence is sorted out more properly, I guess about 20 years or so worth of Desktop Linux programs will work nicely with Ubuntu Touch as well :d
[15:31] <diddledan> you can't just say "we need more apps" and expect it to magically be so though
[15:31] <sebsebseb> diddledan: yep
[15:31] <sebsebseb> diddledan: hence why I jokeinly said that popey should make say 50 more good quality native apps, since I have installed an app or two or three that it says was made by him
[15:32] <popey> I like that i can use an emoji for my users name http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/2016/device-2016-05-12-143253.png
[15:32] <sebsebseb> diddledan: plus actsaully since he works for Canonical he might have more interest in  improving the app situation, than certain other people.
[15:32] <popey> yeah
[15:32] <popey> fair point
[15:32]  * sebsebseb thinks popey should try and get Mark to pay him to make loads of Ubuntu touch apps of good quality maybe, he h h e h ( I half jokingly say that )
[15:32] <sebsebseb> fair point to my coment to diddledan ?
[15:35] <sebsebseb> popey: the OS itself is quite nice we know that,  and convergence  is interesting to, but one thing lets it down still lack of apps yep
[15:36]  * sebsebseb might regret not going to somethng tonight a bit
[15:37] <sebsebseb> hi switches
[15:37] <Switches> hey sebsebseb
[15:38] <sebsebseb> Switches: can I pm you?  its just I noticed something that's slightly interesting
[15:38] <Switches> Sure
[15:49] <daftykins> o0
[15:50] <sebsebseb> daftykins: yes me and Switches have this uhmm awesome chat going on that your not part of he h  h eh , isn't that right Switches he h h eh ?
[15:51] <daftykins> yesterday i almost thought Switches was you
[15:51] <daftykins> :P
[15:51] <sebsebseb> daftykins: oh why's that since the S ?
[15:51] <Switches> Na I'm me :p
[15:52] <Switches> Plus I just normally lurk around for a while
[15:53] <diddledan> blocked ear ftl
[15:54] <diddledan> tons of gooey earwax leaking ftw (yey for otex eardrops!)
[15:54] <Switches> lol
[15:54] <zmoylan-pi> save that up for candles... :-P
[15:54] <diddledan> lol
[15:54] <diddledan> I can hear at least today
[15:55] <daftykins> diddledan: ah that must be so satisfying, did you get the joyous moment it opened up again, or still waiting?
[15:56] <diddledan> oh I did. I rejoyced
[15:56] <diddledan> rejoiced?
[15:56] <diddledan> htf do you speel?
[15:56] <daftykins> yes!
[15:56] <daftykins> ;D
[15:56] <daftykins> you're British sir, you're not supposed to!
[15:57] <zmoylan-pi> he'll soon have some color in his cheeks...
[15:57] <diddledan> I wonder how difficult it will be to adjust in the channel islands if Britain decides to leave the EU
[15:57] <daftykins> what's this drama? http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2016/05/11/pausing-philws-involvement-in-ubuntu/
[15:57] <diddledan> same for gibraltar
[15:58] <daftykins> diddledan: we already get screwed, so just an extra level of i'd imagine :P
[15:58] <diddledan> wtf? that sounds serious (the philw thing)
[15:58] <daftykins> yeah doesn't sound too good
[16:00] <Switches> Something to do with his conduct I guess, breaching the CoC isn't really something they look kindly upon. Also stopped him having a position in ubuntuGNOME I think.
[16:01] <daftykins> well yes that's as much as can be assumed from the link, but more specifics is naturally what was sought
[16:01] <sebsebseb> Switches: daftykins uhmm seen it before with Jonhan Riddel
[16:01] <sebsebseb> that kiind of thing
[16:01] <sebsebseb> the Kubuntu guy yeah
[16:02] <daftykins> right but there were tonnes of write ups about that one
[16:02] <Switches> Well just my opinion but after the J Riddel crap I think it should be kept between those concerned and that post is more a "heads up" for the community
[16:02] <sebsebseb> there was that thing in the Linux media about that not so long ago
[16:02] <sebsebseb> also I hae actsaully mett Riddel in person the other year at FOSDEM, and then saw a talk he did this year
[16:03] <daftykins> ah so not just a gadget fanboy then ;)
[16:03] <diddledan> I think the council should explain their decisions rather than just saying "this is what we decided. live with it."
[16:03] <sebsebseb> daftykins: who me?
[16:03] <daftykins> yeah
[16:03] <sebsebseb> daftykins: no I started going to FOSDEM in 2012 since another distro. and one that isn't based on Ubuntu
[16:04] <daftykins> always healthy to see how the ubuntu crowd functions (and by that i mean, not healthy)
[16:04] <sebsebseb> daftykins: that also took me to the more Ubuntu focussed event OGG Camp as well though,  or well not quite, but yeah I went to that as well after FOSDEM, met popey h eh
[16:04] <daftykins> any troublemakers get ejected!
[16:04] <Switches> Well they have to cut it somewhere. Bringing up personal arguments and crap always gets twisted in the press and media. I think the council in this have done the right thing
[16:04] <zmoylan-pi> he doesn't know, he got kicked out... :-P
[16:04] <sebsebseb> daftykins: gadjet fa n boy not quite, I do see Ubuntu Touch at becoming more popular possibly though,  if well  the app situation is much more sorted out for a start :d and convegence as well
[16:04] <daftykins> Switches: you're talking about it as you know the details, but i was saying i have no idea - so it's a bit puzzling :P
[16:05] <diddledan> it's not transparent, which I feel is important for a community council to be
[16:06] <popey> not convicned
[16:06] <popey> would you fancy a blog post with your name on saying all the ways in which you suck?
[16:06] <Switches> Lets say I been following it a bit. I think a few have, but tbh it's just people being people, we have way better things to focus on than a few "hotheads" in the community
[16:06] <sebsebseb> I think all commnites etc, get drama at time!
[16:07] <Myrtti> popey: is the nickname really philw or is there a typo and it's phillw instead? just wondering, I don't think dholbach is online to check from
[16:08] <popey> good point
[16:08] <Switches> The way I see it is the council knows the whole story, its not one person making a decision its what 8 people or something? let them deal with it. we put them there.
[16:10] <diddledan> no. gossip isn't what I'm after, I think an explanation of the kind "diddledan and popey regularly argued about personal things which often descended into insults. it is therefore the council's decision that diddledan should leave the community for a period of 12 months so that all parties may cool-off"
[16:11] <diddledan> even if the council explained why they feel details should be retained behind closed-doors would be appropriate to satisfy my curiosity
[16:12] <diddledan> it's the nature I want to understand, not the details
[16:12] <daftykins> diddledan: agreed
[16:13] <daftykins> otherwise it just looks like strongarming by those in 'power'
[16:16] <Switches> You know when people say stuff like this I always wonder where the "voices" go when the matters are important to the community. No matter what the council says or does someone somewhere will find a way to pick it apart and take what they want from it, either to improve their own perceived standing or to get some more clicks.
[16:16] <Switches> I guess I'm just old... and not so inquisitive now lol
[16:16] <daftykins> i've no idea what you mean there
[16:18] <Switches> Which part, the part where I'm to old? or the bit with people trying to get the one up on someone else?
[16:18] <daftykins> the latter
[16:19] <daftykins> actually, maybe it's better to move on
[16:20] <Switches> Well look at news sites or the Linux media, they are always doing it. They try to move stuff in a direction that is so say neutral while back handedly slapping someone in the face.
[16:20] <daftykins> i don't follow any
[16:20] <sebsebseb> the Linux media likes some whining as well at itmes it seems
[16:21] <sebsebseb> polotics
[16:21] <sebsebseb> in fighthing etc
[16:21] <Switches> lol then lets leave it, I was pretty much talking about the whole council thing at the moment
[16:21] <daftykins> by that i meant Linux media, i don't visit or read any
[16:21] <sebsebseb> and councils don't always do the best thing for anything in general that has a council
[16:22] <Switches> I do as much as I can stomach. lol
[16:22] <Switches> That's very true seb but at the end of the day we are all human and without making mistakes at times we don't learn crap.
[16:22] <daftykins> from the outside though arguing and in-fighting seems to be the definition of open source :P
[16:23] <sebsebseb> daftykins: yep that sounds about right :D
[16:23] <Switches> At points from outside the community it does look like that daftykins
[16:23] <zmoylan-pi> it's what makes open source code good in some ways
[16:23] <sebsebseb> also means we get like three thousand distros too :d
[16:23] <zmoylan-pi> i don't like were you're taking this text editor so i'm going to write my own... :-)
[16:24] <Switches> It's actually imo one of it's strengths but also its Achilles heal
[16:24] <sebsebseb> I don't like the name of that program  since it's named after zmoylan-pi  so I am going to make a big fuss and get it re named or someone to fork it :d
[16:24] <Switches> yep spot on zmoylan-pi but sometimes it does lead to a lot of innovation and a fresh perspective
[16:25] <daftykins> surely at times it turns into a multiplication of workload, which the forking folks could have better used on working with the original project
[16:26] <zmoylan-pi> it's like all code.  at some points it comes time to scrap what you have and start fresh.  open source will always have someone ready at that time wanting to do that... :-)
[16:26] <Switches> For me atleast that's what ubuntu and its derivatives do the best, they push stuff to get better even if sometimes they get referred to as suffering from "NIH" syndrome (which imo is way off base)
[16:26] <daftykins> it's quite amusing reading about Mint dropping the inclusion of codecs from images, since it was often what a lot of Mint fans pointing to as being better than Ubuntu :D
[16:26] <daftykins> oops s/pointing/pointed/
[16:26] <sebsebseb> daftykins: yeah
[16:26] <zmoylan-pi> i didn't read on why mint decided to do that
[16:26] <zmoylan-pi> seems daft
[16:26] <sebsebseb> daftykins: I saw a comment to do with htat on omgubuntu where someone was like,  right well I'll just go back to Ubuntu then
[16:27] <Switches> Ain't got a clue tbh I try to stay away from Mint and Arch in general >.>
[16:27] <sebsebseb> daftykins: and someone else was like, really losing you since that?
[16:27] <sebsebseb> Switches: why's that?
[16:28] <Switches> Never liked Mints choices tbh (especially some of the keeping back security fixes) also Arch for me is just for users who can't use a Gentoo, Funtoo or LFS install
[16:29] <daftykins> well we saw users doing that about minor things in #ubuntu too, i think it's the more youthful folks who hop distro on a weekly basis because they have the time and impatience to hop.
[16:29] <sebsebseb> Switches: hmm maybe to the Arch thing, but  Arch is apparnatly so amazing
[16:29] <diddledan> I tried mint once. their custom builds of some packages conflicted with packages they relied on ubuntu repos for such as mod_php from ubuntu refusing to interact with mint's custom apache build
[16:29] <diddledan> I forget the specifics but that put me off for life
[16:29] <zmoylan-pi> i have mint on one system (the one i'm using at the moment) it's nice but i prefer xubuntu and will probably switch this machine to xubuntu at some point
[16:31] <Switches> So people say, all of Archs strengths are always referred to as AUR which is from the community and not actually Arch itself, It doesn't sell the Arch "way" to me, but then thats just me. I use Gentoo, Funtoo, Ubuntu and Fedora pretty much daily
[16:33] <Switches> Gentoo and Funtoo are a lot of work, building stuff from source for everything, but the performance you can get from it is impressive. Ubuntu and Fedora have basically the best Binary installs around with .deb (and now snappy for ubuntu) and .rpm plus copr for Fedora
[16:33] <daftykins> i dunno, i asked a longtime Gentoo user and they admitted it wasn't worth the effort at the end of the day
[16:34] <daftykins> life is too short for a distro like that :)
[16:34] <Switches> Tbh it depends a lot on what you run aswell, using a desktop processor to run the gentoo builds on is a waste of time imo, but you get a couple of xeons doing it with a stack of memory and it def shows what it can be capable of
[16:35] <daftykins> diddledan loves working with gentoo on servers ;D
[16:35] <Switches> :D
[16:35] <diddledan> I'm doing that right now
[16:36] <Switches> Well tbh people say its not "production" ready, but in all honesty it depends on how you build it and what flags you choose to use.
[16:36] <zmoylan-pi> it's the brag factor with gentoo... you're running the latest version?? just how much ram and cpu does that thing have?! :-)
[16:36] <daftykins> the sweet white flag of surrender
[16:36] <Switches> lol
[16:37] <Switches> Tbh the distro you use shouldn't really be a factor and tbh it kinda pisses me off that people make it such a big deal, at the end of the day Linux is Linux no matter what you choose to run, you're making a better decision than running Windows or OS-X
[16:38] <davmor2> daftykins: that was a great debut album for dido was the "of surrender" but the remix version?
[16:38] <daftykins> i don't like the use of the word 'better', it all has problems at the end of the day
[16:38] <daftykins> they all, rather (all OSs)
[16:38] <daftykins> davmor2: heh i have no idea about that
[16:39] <daftykins> good ol' depressing tunes Dido
[16:40] <Switches> Yeah they do, nothing is perfect. But for me you can customise Linux to be what you need, when you need it. Ubuntu, Fedora and Opensuse make it "easier" in the sense of fancy UI and stuff but underneath the power of them is all on par.
[16:41] <davmor2> daftykins: no depressing is evanescence, placibo etc :)
[16:41] <daftykins> hehe
[16:41] <Switches> rofl
[16:41] <Switches> evanescence isn't depressing!
[16:41] <diddledan> I love evanessence
[16:41] <Switches> placibo I gotta admit i agree there :p
[16:42] <daftykins> Switches: not everyone needs that though, i support folks but they stick to Windows land because they're mostly married to the experiences of e.g. MS Outlook for their email and can't be torn away, it's a shame to be that self restricted but in truth Linux just wouldn't work in their business travelling laptops and so on as i'd always seen battery life get trashed
[16:42] <davmor2> Switches: listen to the lyrics and the music separately I think you'll find that is exactly the tone they are going for ;)
[16:42] <daftykins> i really wouldn't push Linux onto people either, since i most likely couldn't resolve the kinds of problems they'd see
[16:43] <daftykins> or putting up with said users for coping with the change wouldn't be something i'm brave enough for :D
[16:43] <Switches> I don't push linux as imo it's not for "everybody", Windows is right for some people, Linux is right for others, Mac well we can just put that in the "do not touch" category
[16:44] <diddledan> davmor2: the lyrics of evanessence are dark/depressing I agree. I love it though
[16:44] <daftykins> Switches: :D agreed
[16:44] <diddledan> I'm a closet emo
[16:44] <davmor2> diddledan: hey I didn't say it was all good music :)
[16:44] <davmor2> wasn't even
[16:45] <zmoylan-pi> isn't a closet emo every emo ever? :-)
[16:45] <Switches> davmor2 if the music isn't loud enough to deafen you, you're not doing it right! that's why it sounds depressing xD
[16:45] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I don't draw the giant black tears or wear black with chains
[16:45] <davmor2> Switches: it's the same music loud or quiet :P
[16:46] <Switches> Na when its loud enough its nothing but a hum and big smashes xD
[16:46] <Switches> <-- is also a bit of a metalhead
[16:46] <davmor2> Switches: daftykins: I think designers and musicians would argue with you over the need for apple products
[16:47] <diddledan> I want a new mac
[16:47] <zmoylan-pi> but it's sunny weather and summer now
[16:47] <Switches> Yeah they would, because that is what they are accustomed to the same reason Linux users argue with other Linux users, doesn't always mean its the right thing for the job though :p
[16:47] <daftykins> actually, i think designers lock themselves into Apple as much as Windows users lock themselves into MS Office
[16:47] <daftykins> they haven't been restricted to mac for over 12 years, but they know it so they keep buying them - the industry doesn't lock them into their use
[16:48] <zmoylan-pi> well ibm stopped making thinkpads so apples it is
[16:48] <daftykins> music, probably - not familiar with that kind of work myself
[16:49] <Switches> Tbh people using Windows and Mac have their reasons, I just don't always agree with the outlook. Linux for the past 25 or so years has always done what I have asked of it (although Linux does suck at making coffee!!).
[16:49] <zmoylan-pi> you just need the right emacs extension for coffee
[16:49] <davmor2> daftykins: the industry does, because training for design happens on macs guess what you think you need to make it as a designer :D
[16:49] <daftykins> nah that's not true either
[16:50] <Switches> Well they have linux on cow milking machines, wonder when they will get it right on a coffee maker?
[16:50] <daftykins> sure they may push that way of thinking, but more often than not it's living in Adobe products which they can get on Windows too
[16:50] <diddledan> photoshop is the staple diet for for webdesigners
[16:50] <davmor2> daftykins: My friend is at Uni currently doing design and illustration they have the only computer lab that has macs in it, all the others have pc's so you were saying
[16:50]  * zmoylan-pi imagines the horror of a milking machine running windows...
[16:51] <Switches> rofl
[16:51] <zmoylan-pi> cows whizzing through the air like deflating balloons everywhere...
[16:51] <daftykins> davmor2: i'm not doubting that educational establishments would be fostering macs for those courses, but the idea they'd need to own one themselves is definitely dubious
[16:52] <Switches> Yeah you can just see that image in your head.. "OMG BSOD ON COW MILKER ONE! RUN FOR COVER!"
[16:52] <davmor2> daftykins: no they don't, but if they use them all day it becomes the thing they are used to so don't go for pc's because they can't use them as easily as macs
[16:52] <davmor2> and so on
[16:52] <daftykins> yeah, agreed - but that'll only be some of them
[16:53] <davmor2> daftykins: I bet it is more than you think
[16:53] <daftykins> it probably is fair to see creative types are going to be less understanding or interested in understanding the tools of their trade
[16:53] <daftykins> but what i mainly want to get at is dispelling this myth that it has to be macs to do the work :>
[16:54] <diddledan> creative types like the brand of apple because they're creative types
[16:55] <daftykins> "i enjoy buying a machine that can't be repaired or upgraded!"
[16:55] <daftykins> :D
[16:55] <Switches> People learn one thing and think that they have to stay in those confines, never realising half the great stuff they could do by just thinking outside the box
[16:57] <Switches> Doesn't help the companies pushing adverts everywhere you look "This is the ONLY product you will ever need (as long as you never want to do anything outside of the walled garden)"
[16:57] <davmor2> daftykins: and I agree but they won't they will find a million and one reasons why blender the gimp and scribus suck to hell and back
[16:58] <Switches> davamor2 the funny thing with that is mostly its because of the "plugins" they use and not the actual program itself
[16:59] <davmor2> Switches: probably
[16:59] <Switches> Its the "can you use this instead?", "yeah, sure I can but I cant use this extortionately priced plugin I've came to rely on"
[16:59] <daftykins> davmor2: oh i wasn't in any way saying they would go to Linux, but they can get the Adobe suite on Windows :>
[17:00] <Switches> If I'm totally honest.. I would rather have them use a PC than a Mac, but then I've had my time working with apple hardware... Apple X-servers yuck!
[17:01] <daftykins> haha, they've not even had those for years
[17:01] <Switches> Yep but my hate for Apple has lasted since then :p
[17:01] <daftykins> a mate of mine was working in Apple offices in London, no joke they had RAID arrays being attached to mac minis because they don't produce server kit anymore
[17:01] <daftykins> i say was, still is i think
[17:02] <Switches> well they did release that stupid mini server at one point..
[17:03] <daftykins> well it's a bit more concerning when they are phoning up the nearby retail store to go and buy their own hardware - and little toys to run a business :D
[17:03] <Switches> Back when it was PPC arch I could see some of the reasons for using macs, now its just a pc in a fancy case using hardware that worse than I use in my "used part" builds
[17:04] <daftykins> and you get to pay a premium for it :D
[17:04] <Switches> Yeah...
[17:04] <zmoylan-pi> the ppc systems were really nice
[17:04] <daftykins> oh and quirky EFIs that essentially stop you trying to do what you want
[17:04] <zmoylan-pi> i still have a ppc mac mini here somewhere in a box...
[17:04] <Switches> Hell yeah I loved PPC
[17:04] <zmoylan-pi> ran cool
[17:05] <daftykins> G4s didn't :>
[17:05] <Switches> lol G4s were known for being a little "warm"
[17:06] <zmoylan-pi> now i have to admit i was asked to install a hard drive into a g4.  i had never so muched as touched a mac before but the musician asked me as he trusted me.  the design INSIDE the case was beautiful
[17:06] <Switches> Guess that happens when you cram something like that inside a plastic case with little to no airflow or cooling :p
[17:06] <zmoylan-pi> it opened up in a way as to make servicing so easy and accessible
[17:07] <zmoylan-pi> drive slid in. screws needed to hold it were screwed into place ready for it
[17:07] <Switches> Oh yeah the case was well designed and a dream to work with, but my god you ever look where the fans were and how few of them there were :p
[17:07] <daftykins> mmm, was quite easy popping the can on a mid 2010 macbook pro also
[17:07] <daftykins> Switches: where?
[17:07] <daftykins> in the world?
[17:07] <zmoylan-pi> made more annoying as i had spent 3 hours that day installing an extra drive in a low profile ast and had cut my hands badly on all the sharp edges
[17:08] <daftykins> :S
[17:08] <Switches> Well the older G4s had two fans one in the power supply and one as an intake behind a 1/4" steel plate with no holes in it xD
[17:08] <daftykins> all this talk has had me boot my vmware VM of OS X 10.11
[17:09] <daftykins> not a fan of OS X in any edition :P
[17:10] <Switches> OS X isn't that bad tbh, but it doesn't run on anything but Apple which kinda sucks (unless you wanna build a hackintosh and voodoo magic to boot it)
[17:10] <daftykins> my VM gives me exposure when i need some first hand insight for a client
[17:10] <zmoylan-pi> and their push for an app store now on osx is not a nice direction
[17:10] <Switches> Best thing to do, I used to use Darwin a lot years ago in the early days of OS X
[17:15] <Switches> I really should try and find another G5 at some point to play around with Darwin and Darwine on (although Darwine hasn't been touched since like 2008 or something)
[17:16] <Switches> Or maybe just get one to run ubuntu on again, had fun with a G4 getting DRI running on it.
[17:16] <diddledan> darwine as in the wine emulator for Darwin?
[17:16] <Switches> yeah
[17:16] <daftykins> a lot of people are putting glass sheets over two and making attractive coffee tables from G5s now ;)
[17:16] <diddledan> meh, just use wine
[17:16] <Switches> Where's the fun in that :p
[17:17] <Switches> hmm G5 coffee table.. that sounds interesting...
[17:17] <diddledan> use the CD drives as real coffeecup holders
[17:17] <zmoylan-pi> i did see a nice g5 coffee table online recently.  a bit sad for such a powerful computer
[17:17] <Switches> Maybe someone should make a touch version of the G5 coffee table xD
[17:18] <daftykins> surely you mean 'once powerful' :)
[17:18] <zmoylan-pi> no you rig up the cd drive to push the cat away when it tries to jump onto the table
[17:19] <Switches> Tbh the chips in the G5 although compared to stuff like Haswell and Skylake are weak, against most chips they actually perform really well. But having said that they are PPC so no surprise really
[17:19] <daftykins> you do often get some diehards come into #ubuntu asking for help installing new releases on the things, can't say i took that seriously though
[17:20] <zmoylan-pi> the ppc platform never seemed to get fully going so it never seemed to reach its full potential
[17:20] <Switches> Well Ubuntu ran for years on my G4 and my old G5 but wasn't without a few hiccups
[17:20] <daftykins> i thought they reached a thermal ceiling too early, was a problem?
[17:21] <zmoylan-pi> i live in ireland... we'd never reach it's thermal ceiling... :-P
[17:22] <diddledan> that's the reason so many datacentres are in Ireland. you don't need air conditioning; just open a window and you're sety
[17:22] <Switches> rofl
[17:22] <daftykins> :>
[17:23]  * zmoylan-pi remembers the customer whos pc was in office built beside ice plant for fish shipping company... instructions even in summer. 1) turn on bottled gas heater 2) wait 30minutes 3) start cpm computer...
[17:23] <daftykins> :D
[17:23] <daftykins> i'll bet those were violated on occasion
[17:24] <zmoylan-pi> the air used to condense even then on the wall and fall like mist to the floor and flow out the door
[17:25] <Switches> Early stages of Water Cooling :p
[17:25] <zmoylan-pi> if the rules were disobeyed the motherboards cracked as going from -20 to 30c in 5 minutes was bad
[17:26] <zmoylan-pi> and then they'd have to wait 2-3 days till we found another sacrifical cpm computer to replace their dead one
[17:26] <Switches> Well they aren't exactly designed to have that wide a variance in temperature. I'm surprised they just cracked lol
[17:27] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: how often did that happen? :)
[17:27] <zmoylan-pi> 2-3 times in about 20 years of use? it would survive a fair few times till it had enough
[17:28] <daftykins> come to think of it in my youth, my dad has us wait plenty of time when the dan pentium 1 first showed up, to let it acclimatise to the temperature of the house vs. the shipping it'd just endured
[17:28] <Switches> meh no deliveries today, guess I'm waiting again for my little MATX build to come together
[17:28] <zmoylan-pi> those computers were very resillient
[17:28] <daftykins> i don't really wait to fire up anything when it's new now o0 probably should :D
[17:29] <Switches> Who does? You normally go into "New Toy!" mode well before you think about that :p
[17:29] <daftykins> haha indeed
[17:30] <daftykins> shiny shiny! aka crow mode, as i call it
[17:30] <Switches> Yep
[17:30] <zmoylan-pi> and why do they try and slow you down with these 'read me first' instructions!! :-)
[17:30] <Switches> Love getting new "shiny" stuff
[17:30] <daftykins> pff whoever learnt anything relevant from such paperwork :D
[17:30] <Switches> Or they make the packaging so damn hard to open!
[17:31] <zmoylan-pi> swiss army knife gets through all packaging
[17:31] <diddledan> the read me first is useful to figure out what you did wrong if you find it doesn't work ootb
[17:31] <zmoylan-pi> sometimes even the cables inside the package :-D
[17:31] <diddledan> obviously you don't read it first
[17:32] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I've damaged things like that before, too
[17:32] <Switches> lol
[17:32] <zmoylan-pi> then it's hunt around to find similar cable and nick it no a
[17:32] <zmoylan-pi> no matter what it's connected to at the time
[17:33] <zmoylan-pi> i swear if iron lung machines used usb there'd be a few incidents recorded... :-P
[17:33] <daftykins> i picked up a little portable cassette player as a kid, the guy in the shop spoke of how they often would snip the headphone cables by accident opening up the silly blister packs... when i took it home and did exactly that, i took it back and said it wasn't me 8D
[17:33] <Switches> Always keep spare cables around so I don't really get that problem.. although when you have a scsi lead that you have kept as a "spare" for over 10 yrs and don't even have an 40pin scsi drive anymore.... bit worrying i guess
[17:34] <daftykins> (they had to write something on the warranty cards)
[17:34] <daftykins> haha, i have those types of spares for PATA now - i keep 1 or 2 lying around but i'd be glad to never see any of that kit again
[17:35] <Switches> lol same here
[17:35] <zmoylan-pi> you keep the scsi cables around for whipping the bad hardware...
[17:35] <Switches> Well yeah it often works
[17:36] <diddledan> I've still got a scsi drive array full of scsi disks
[17:36] <zmoylan-pi> it relieves pressure and prevents you from breaking your foot kicking a full height server with redundant power supplies
[17:36] <diddledan> not powered-on
[17:36]  * SuperEngineer heard that even the UK government keep a spare Cable ;-)
[17:36] <Switches> I even have an old Dell 1600SC server here that I use... talk about being into "archaeology" lol
[17:36] <diddledan> SuperEngineer: Vince Cable?
[17:36] <SuperEngineer> yup
[17:36] <zmoylan-pi> my brother has had dealings with irish army.  they know how to store a few odds and sods for spares :-)
[17:37] <zmoylan-pi> huge warehouses just full of parts, pristine, untouched, perfect
[17:37] <daftykins> DOA in the packet - doh! ;)
[17:38] <diddledan> I've got a few of these in their rackmount form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_ztYj80HSY
[17:39] <Switches> holy crap.. aint seen one of those for years...
[17:40] <diddledan> I've got three
[17:41] <daftykins> nothing like a 3 day POST
[17:41] <Switches> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj76sLJO3PY there's the one I got lol
[17:42] <zmoylan-pi> ah the whine of a tape drive... promising so much backup and so seldom doing it...
[17:42] <diddledan> they're bleeding loud when all three are running
[17:42] <zmoylan-pi> not using ear protection?
[17:43] <Switches> I bet... must be like sitting next to a Boeing
[17:43] <zmoylan-pi> a boeing could sneak past when 3 of them are running i suspect...
[17:44] <Switches> Even my old Q6600 that I use daily is quieter than that!
[17:46] <daftykins> :) Q6600 is my desktop i just retired
[17:46] <daftykins> thinking of snagging a PSU for it though then giving it away
[17:46] <Switches> Ain't retired mine yet, probably wont for atleast another year lol
[17:47] <daftykins> my chipset was failing sadly, so it was time to go
[17:47] <Switches> Building a new used machine for myself then daughter will prob have the 6600
[17:49] <Switches> Well that should have been "new/used" machine.. as In some new parts with older motherboard/CPU combo
[17:49] <daftykins> ah not a victim to the apple camp then? ;) desiring the sleek identical look
[17:50] <Switches> Na, got a Bitfenix Phenom MATX case and a nice PGA1155 intel board with a e3 1230v2
[17:50] <daftykins> the daughter i meant there of course
[17:50] <Switches> Ohh right, na she likes the "vintage" stuff as she calls it
[17:51] <daftykins> haha
[17:51] <daftykins> it's an odd one on my Q6600's motherboard, some days it will just decide the primary SATA controller (first 2 ports) will say goodbye - so no devices are detected for a few power cycles, on those
[17:51] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uviwm78kqd30en/IMG_20160413_134814.jpg?dl=0
[17:51] <daftykins> that's it there
[17:52] <diddledan> daftykins: maybe capacitor failure?
[17:52] <Switches> nice, shame its dying..
[17:52] <daftykins> would it really go for weeks on end though without, if so?
[17:53] <daftykins> i'm assuming the SSD isn't to blame since popping it in port 3 it fired up fine
[17:53] <daftykins> ah well, glad i no longer have to put up with such quirks
[17:53] <Switches> The quirks are sometimes the best part
[17:54] <Switches> With one of mine at the mo it decides the USB ports aren't working and spits out a wonderful kernel panic when it does..
[17:54] <daftykins> erk!
[17:56] <Switches> Just the joys of using old hardware really. I kinda refuse to buy a new comp as they are way to expensive imo. Even the parts have gotten to be to much for very little increase in power
[17:56] <diddledan> daftykins: with dying caps they'll be fine when they're running but cold-start they may be flakey
[17:56] <daftykins> ah, yeah it was more the other way around then - took at least a couple of hours use, maybe a few
[17:57] <diddledan> that sounds more likely a component suffering when warm then
[17:57] <daftykins> Switches: well, i dropped £600 on the skylake setup - case, i7 6700, new M.2 PCIe SSD and 32GB RAM... super nice and efficient compared with the ol' core 2 quad build
[17:58] <diddledan> possibly your sata chip is on it's way out and it manifests due to heat
[17:58] <daftykins> yeah, though just the primary portion in the southbridge
[17:59] <Switches> Well that's not a bad price. I just enjoy Xeons so for me to get a "new-ish" one was around £1200 quid
[17:59] <diddledan> another possibility is the psu isn't providing enough on the 3v3 rail so the chip is sometimes not getting enough jews
[17:59] <Switches> And no way I'm paying that when I can get an older gen for around £200 lol
[18:00] <Switches> If I could have found a nice LGA1366 board I would have been set, I have two E5620 lying around doing jack.
[18:01] <daftykins> ah har
[18:01] <diddledan> is the 1366 the original i-cpu-series socket?
[18:02] <diddledan> e.g. the i7 920?
[18:02] <diddledan> I've got an i7 920 here unused
[18:02] <daftykins> yep
[18:02] <Switches> Yeah the board is the first gen
[18:03] <Switches> Couldn't find any boards with a respectable price on ebay or any of my local second hand shops, so I got a cheap 1155 for the other Xeon i had lying around.
[18:03] <Switches> brb need coffee
[18:04] <daftykins> too many sockets :(
[18:04] <diddledan> setec astronomy
[18:05] <diddledan> no, wait, that was "secrets"
[18:48] <Anarchy_> o/
[19:05] <Switches> Now that's some good news http://gpuopen.com/compressonator-is-going-open-source/
[19:27] <rubbercable> how do i get unity 3d games to work on 16.04?
[19:28] <daftykins> what've you tried / what happens?
[19:29] <daftykins> actually i don't even know about that ones availability under Linux
[19:29] <rubbercable> white screen on firefox - chnged my nividia to 3d accel already
[19:29] <rubbercable> fresh install, first time on ubuntu since 12.04
[19:36] <rubbercable> daftykins: I thought unity3d was native in ubuntu
[19:52] <daftykins> pass.
[19:52] <rubbercable> I think i might have confused myself between unity and unity3d(windows/mac only).
[19:52] <daftykins> experimental build since august of last year, mmk
[19:54] <rubbercable> nevermind  -  i really came back to ubuntu for juju/conjure-up/openstack&zfs anyway.
[19:56] <rubbercable> and maas :)
[19:56] <daftykins> https://fat.gfycat.com/HandmadeGivingAddax.webm new Uncharted game o0
[19:59] <popey> rubbercable: their web plugin doesn't work on linux
[20:01] <rubbercable> popey: unity3d?
[20:01] <popey> yes
[20:02] <popey> they have a new experimental webgl exporter
[20:02] <popey> and I see they're working on a pure SDL one
[20:02] <popey> but the web plugin is windows only i think
[20:03] <rubbercable> popey: nevermind:) probably would have lost weeks of productive time with that - it's probably for the best
[20:03] <popey> heh
[20:05] <diddledan> perhaps we need to, as nerds, teach the world a lesson that APIs need to be freely usable by turning off the internet: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/in-google-v-oracle-the-nerds-are-getting-owned
[20:07] <zmoylan-pi> they did that with sopa and turning off wikipedia and a few other sites for the day.  perhaps a yearly day of protest for that years biggest power grab in computing
[20:08] <diddledan> yeah we need to be bigger asses than that
[20:08] <diddledan> we need to turn off everything that uses a currently free api
[20:08] <zmoylan-pi> and make it april 1st so nerds can get rid of the bad jokes and do something useful
[20:09] <diddledan> no, we need it to be painful, not helpful
[20:09] <diddledan> we need to get the world to sit up and take notice
[20:09] <zmoylan-pi> it'll be painful to technots but useful to nerds
[20:15] <zmoylan-pi> the only way you could make it work is if you can get the googles, the ms's and apples on board as they're the only companies a lot of the non technical people have heard of
[21:10] <diddledan> chances this is a hoax? https://twitter.com/pjf/status/730215052750381056
[21:11] <diddledan> I know the name Paul Fenwick but can't remember why