| cmaloney | morning | 14:07 |
|---|---|---|
| Zimdale | Morning | 14:08 |
| cmaloney | 1001001 | 14:25 |
| mrgoodcat | 73? | 14:27 |
| cmaloney | mrgoodcat: Yeah, | 14:35 |
| cmaloney | Good afternoon and all that. | 18:20 |
| cmaloney | It's 14:20 | 18:20 |
| cmaloney | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/suns-jonathan-schwartz-at-trial-java-was-free-android-had-no-licensing-problem/ | 18:50 |
| mrgoodcat | my alexa came in today | 18:55 |
| cmaloney | nice! | 18:55 |
| cmaloney | I expect a fully dictated blog post on it by 5pm | 18:55 |
| mrgoodcat | haha | 18:57 |
| mrgoodcat | i wonder if i can dictate blog posts on it.... | 18:57 |
| cmaloney | Man I <3 Jonathan Schwartz | 19:05 |
| cmaloney | Even if he pretty much handed the keys to Sun to Oracle he's still a class act | 19:05 |
| jrwren | really? | 19:08 |
| jrwren | I thought he was a jerk. | 19:08 |
| cmaloney | how so? | 19:29 |
| jrwren | he ran sun into the ground. | 19:52 |
| jrwren | sun was pretty evil with java even before teh oracle acquisition | 19:53 |
| jrwren | I probably don't know what I'm talking about. | 19:53 |
| cmaloney | jrwren: I don't think anything could have saved Sun at that point | 19:56 |
| cmaloney | Linux took over the cheap servers | 19:57 |
| cmaloney | Java was not something that could be monetized | 19:57 |
| cmaloney | Sun's market was middle-tier servers and that market was evaporating | 19:57 |
| cmaloney | That and the dot-com boom was pretty much done | 19:58 |
| cmaloney | so they got disrupted on several fronts | 19:58 |
| cmaloney | and then the recession happened | 19:58 |
| jrwren | hrm. could be. | 19:59 |
| jrwren | it had already happened and nothing could be done? | 20:00 |
| jrwren | still, seems like they could have done better seeing it coming, moving into something else, etc. | 20:00 |
| jrwren | Those T1000, T2000 servers were damned sweet. | 20:00 |
| cmaloney | I'm not sure you can point to one thing and say "This is where he fucked up, and here's what they could have fixed" | 20:00 |
| jrwren | still have more cores than most intel chips, and that was 10yrs ago! | 20:00 |
| cmaloney | BFD | 20:00 |
| jrwren | I can ;] | 20:00 |
| cmaloney | cores schmores. | 20:00 |
| jrwren | They sued MSFT. That was a mistake. | 20:00 |
| cmaloney | They won vs. MS | 20:01 |
| jrwren | Actually... I take it back, suing them was not a mistake. | 20:01 |
| jrwren | right. | 20:01 |
| cmaloney | and then MS created .NET | 20:01 |
| jrwren | and then MSFT... exactly | 20:01 |
| jrwren | they should have forced MSFT to give them their extensions and put them into Java 1.3 | 20:01 |
| jrwren | but they didn't, cuz they are stupid. | 20:01 |
| cmaloney | That was a mistake | 20:01 |
| cmaloney | but it was also Gates /Ballmer era MSFT | 20:01 |
| cmaloney | so unlikely they would have cooperated | 20:02 |
| jrwren | yup | 20:02 |
| jrwren | still, they saw the changes, they could have implemented them themselves. | 20:02 |
| cmaloney | They'd sooner nuke the earth than cooperate | 20:02 |
| jrwren | and java would have been better for it. | 20:02 |
| cmaloney | True | 20:02 |
| cmaloney | Thing is Oracle is a more aggressive company | 20:04 |
| cmaloney | and has a "killer app" product | 20:04 |
| jrwren | yup | 20:04 |
| jrwren | its terrible. | 20:04 |
| jrwren | its sad. | 20:04 |
| cmaloney | Sun didn't have that | 20:04 |
| jrwren | i only want a better world. | 20:04 |
| cmaloney | Oh no doubt | 20:04 |
| jrwren | I think i was confusing Schwartz and McNealy | 20:04 |
| cmaloney | mcNealy was a jerk | 20:04 |
| jrwren | its McNealy and Barksdale who I find reprehensible | 20:04 |
| cmaloney | Schwartz was a nice guy | 20:05 |
| cmaloney | unfortunately he was a nice guy that got stood up to take the fall | 20:05 |
| cmaloney | but he's also a smart person | 20:05 |
| cmaloney | and the whole Oracle thing being blamed on him is (I think) not entirely accurate | 20:06 |
| cmaloney | The only saving grace is Sun had open licenses on the good bits | 20:06 |
| cmaloney | Virtualbox, OpenOffice, and MySQL (yeah even MySQL) | 20:07 |
| jrwren | just how open, we shall see. | 20:07 |
| cmaloney | Jonathan's testimony is gold | 20:07 |
| jrwren | I saw your link. I didn't click. | 20:07 |
| cmaloney | Basically "Google was well within their rights. Oracle has no case" | 20:07 |
| cmaloney | Sun would have liked to work more closely with Google, but it didn't pan out | 20:08 |
| cmaloney | also: for a CEO he knew his shit. | 20:08 |
| cmaloney | I think Schwartz was not CEO material; more CIO material. | 20:09 |
| cmaloney | but I'm grateful that he was so loose with the licensing | 20:09 |
| cmaloney | in retrospect it's kind of like the Open Gaming License that Wizards of the Coast generated that made something like Paizo possible | 20:10 |
| cmaloney | (which was engineered by the people at Paizo who knew their days at WotC were numbered) | 20:10 |
| Scary_Guy | Oracle is a mistake, one gigantic mistake | 20:16 |
| cmaloney | dressed in a 3 piece suit with a grin and a firm handshake | 20:16 |
| Scary_Guy | "Oh Java, OpenOffice.Org, and MySQL are all free, let's start charging for those!" Wooo, fragmentation! | 20:16 |
| cmaloney | I thought they had more trouble with outside contribution than charging | 20:17 |
| Scary_Guy | probably that too, but charging just pisses off GNU guys | 20:17 |
| cmaloney | Oh, other than the proprietary extensions to MySQL | 20:17 |
| cmaloney | https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2e2c1o/what_do_we_hate_oracle_for/ | 20:18 |
| cmaloney | God bless Reddit for a breakdown of how to hate. ;) | 20:18 |
| Scary_Guy | you'd think it would be 8chan | 20:18 |
| cmaloney | That's just blind hate | 20:18 |
| Scary_Guy | true | 20:19 |
| Scary_Guy | also, fuck, how did I forget Solaris? | 20:20 |
| cmaloney | Everyone on non-Sun hardware forgot Solaris | 20:21 |
| Scary_Guy | good point | 20:21 |
| jrwren | i want to forget solaris | 20:21 |
| cmaloney | jrwren: Heh | 20:21 |
| cmaloney | Solaris was good when compared with HP-UX, OSF/1 AIX | 20:22 |
| cmaloney | insert and in there | 20:22 |
| Scary_Guy | that would be a fun 15 minute presentaiton: "Why Oracle sucks" | 20:22 |
| cmaloney | but that's like saying you're the nicest dressed person in hell | 20:22 |
| Scary_Guy | http://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-Water-Cooler/ | 20:25 |
| jrwren | disagree. | 20:25 |
| jrwren | i prefered OSF/1 | 20:25 |
| cmaloney | OSF/1 was decent. It had its moments | 20:30 |
| cmaloney | The version of UNIX that DEC had before OSF/1 was pretty terrible. | 20:31 |
| jrwren | ultrix | 20:31 |
| jrwren | yes, aweful | 20:31 |
| cmaloney | God | 20:31 |
| jrwren | then osf1 became tru64, which was actually very nice. | 20:31 |
| cmaloney | I purged that from memory | 20:31 |
| cmaloney | Only reason AIX isn't purged from memory is because | 20:31 |
| cmaloney | friends still use AIX | 20:31 |
| jrwren | the advfs in osf1, digitalunix and tru64 was like zfs or btrfs light. | 20:32 |
| jrwren | really nice. | 20:32 |
| cmaloney | Never got that far into it | 20:32 |
| jrwren | add a partition to a fs, fs instantly grows | 20:33 |
| jrwren | nothing to it. | 20:33 |
| cmaloney | Ah, nice. | 20:34 |
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