[14:07] <cmaloney> morning
[14:08] <Zimdale> Morning
[14:25] <cmaloney> 1001001
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> 73?
[14:35] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah,
[18:20] <cmaloney> Good afternoon and all that.
[18:20] <cmaloney> It's 14:20
[18:50] <cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/suns-jonathan-schwartz-at-trial-java-was-free-android-had-no-licensing-problem/
[18:55] <mrgoodcat> my alexa came in today
[18:55] <cmaloney> nice!
[18:55] <cmaloney> I expect a fully dictated blog post on it by 5pm
[18:57] <mrgoodcat> haha
[18:57] <mrgoodcat> i wonder if i can dictate blog posts on it....
[19:05] <cmaloney> Man I <3 Jonathan Schwartz
[19:05] <cmaloney> Even if he pretty much handed the keys to Sun to Oracle he's still a class act
[19:08] <jrwren> really?
[19:08] <jrwren> I thought he was a jerk.
[19:29] <cmaloney> how so?
[19:52] <jrwren> he ran sun into the ground.
[19:53] <jrwren> sun was pretty evil with java even before teh oracle acquisition
[19:53] <jrwren> I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
[19:56] <cmaloney> jrwren: I don't think anything could have saved Sun at that point
[19:57] <cmaloney> Linux took over the cheap servers
[19:57] <cmaloney> Java was not something that could be monetized
[19:57] <cmaloney> Sun's market was middle-tier servers and that market was evaporating
[19:58] <cmaloney> That and the dot-com boom was pretty much done
[19:58] <cmaloney> so they got disrupted on several fronts
[19:58] <cmaloney> and then the recession happened
[19:59] <jrwren> hrm. could be.
[20:00] <jrwren> it had already happened and nothing could be done?
[20:00] <jrwren> still, seems like they could have done better seeing it coming, moving into something else, etc.
[20:00] <jrwren> Those T1000, T2000 servers were damned sweet.
[20:00] <cmaloney> I'm not sure you can point to one thing and say "This is where he fucked up, and here's what they could have fixed"
[20:00] <jrwren> still have more cores than most intel chips, and that was 10yrs ago!
[20:00] <cmaloney> BFD
[20:00] <jrwren> I can ;]
[20:00] <cmaloney> cores schmores.
[20:00] <jrwren> They sued MSFT. That was a mistake.
[20:01] <cmaloney> They won vs. MS
[20:01] <jrwren> Actually... I take it back, suing them was not a mistake.
[20:01] <jrwren> right.
[20:01] <cmaloney> and then MS created .NET
[20:01] <jrwren> and then MSFT... exactly
[20:01] <jrwren> they should have forced MSFT to give them their extensions and put them into Java 1.3
[20:01] <jrwren> but they didn't, cuz they are stupid.
[20:01] <cmaloney> That was a mistake
[20:01] <cmaloney> but it was also Gates /Ballmer era MSFT
[20:02] <cmaloney> so unlikely they would have cooperated
[20:02] <jrwren> yup
[20:02] <jrwren> still, they saw the changes, they could have implemented them themselves.
[20:02] <cmaloney> They'd sooner nuke the earth than cooperate
[20:02] <jrwren> and java would have been better for it.
[20:02] <cmaloney> True
[20:04] <cmaloney> Thing is Oracle is a more aggressive company
[20:04] <cmaloney> and has a "killer app" product
[20:04] <jrwren> yup
[20:04] <jrwren> its terrible.
[20:04] <jrwren> its sad.
[20:04] <cmaloney> Sun didn't have that
[20:04] <jrwren> i only want a better world.
[20:04] <cmaloney> Oh no doubt
[20:04] <jrwren> I think i was confusing Schwartz and McNealy
[20:04] <cmaloney> mcNealy was a jerk
[20:04] <jrwren> its McNealy and Barksdale who I find reprehensible
[20:05] <cmaloney> Schwartz was a nice guy
[20:05] <cmaloney> unfortunately he was a nice guy that got stood up to take the fall
[20:05] <cmaloney> but he's also a smart person
[20:06] <cmaloney> and the whole Oracle thing being blamed on him is (I think) not entirely accurate
[20:06] <cmaloney> The only saving grace is Sun had open licenses on the good bits
[20:07] <cmaloney> Virtualbox, OpenOffice, and  MySQL (yeah even MySQL)
[20:07] <jrwren> just how open, we shall see.
[20:07] <cmaloney> Jonathan's testimony is gold
[20:07] <jrwren> I saw your link. I didn't click.
[20:07] <cmaloney> Basically "Google was well within their rights. Oracle has no case"
[20:08] <cmaloney> Sun would have liked to work more closely with Google, but it didn't pan out
[20:08] <cmaloney> also: for a CEO he knew his shit.
[20:09] <cmaloney> I think Schwartz was not CEO material; more CIO material.
[20:09] <cmaloney> but I'm grateful that he was so loose with the licensing
[20:10] <cmaloney> in retrospect it's kind of like the Open Gaming License that Wizards of the Coast generated that made something like Paizo possible
[20:10] <cmaloney> (which was engineered by the people at Paizo who knew their days at WotC were numbered)
[20:16] <Scary_Guy> Oracle is a mistake, one gigantic mistake
[20:16] <cmaloney> dressed in a 3 piece suit with a grin and a firm handshake
[20:16] <Scary_Guy> "Oh Java, OpenOffice.Org, and MySQL are all free, let's start charging for those!"  Wooo, fragmentation!
[20:17] <cmaloney> I thought they had more trouble with outside contribution than charging
[20:17] <Scary_Guy> probably that too, but charging just pisses off GNU guys
[20:17] <cmaloney> Oh, other than the proprietary extensions to MySQL
[20:18] <cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2e2c1o/what_do_we_hate_oracle_for/
[20:18] <cmaloney> God bless Reddit for a breakdown of how to hate. ;)
[20:18] <Scary_Guy> you'd think it would be 8chan
[20:18] <cmaloney> That's just blind hate
[20:19] <Scary_Guy> true
[20:20] <Scary_Guy> also, fuck, how did I forget Solaris?
[20:21] <cmaloney> Everyone on non-Sun hardware forgot Solaris
[20:21] <Scary_Guy> good point
[20:21] <jrwren> i want to forget solaris
[20:21] <cmaloney> jrwren: Heh
[20:22] <cmaloney> Solaris was good when compared with HP-UX, OSF/1 AIX
[20:22] <cmaloney> insert and in there
[20:22] <Scary_Guy> that would be a fun 15 minute presentaiton: "Why Oracle sucks"
[20:22] <cmaloney> but that's like saying you're the nicest dressed person in hell
[20:25] <Scary_Guy> http://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-Water-Cooler/
[20:25] <jrwren> disagree.
[20:25] <jrwren> i prefered OSF/1
[20:30] <cmaloney> OSF/1 was decent. It had its moments
[20:31] <cmaloney> The version of UNIX that DEC had before OSF/1 was pretty terrible.
[20:31] <jrwren> ultrix
[20:31] <jrwren> yes, aweful
[20:31] <cmaloney> God
[20:31] <jrwren> then osf1 became tru64, which was actually very nice.
[20:31] <cmaloney> I purged that from memory
[20:31] <cmaloney> Only reason AIX isn't purged from memory is because
[20:31] <cmaloney> friends still use AIX
[20:32] <jrwren> the advfs in osf1, digitalunix and tru64 was like zfs or btrfs light.
[20:32] <jrwren> really nice.
[20:32] <cmaloney> Never got that far into it
[20:33] <jrwren> add a partition to a fs, fs instantly grows
[20:33] <jrwren> nothing to it.
[20:34] <cmaloney> Ah, nice.