[14:07] morning [14:08] Morning [14:25] 1001001 [14:27] 73? [14:35] mrgoodcat: Yeah, [18:20] Good afternoon and all that. [18:20] It's 14:20 [18:50] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/suns-jonathan-schwartz-at-trial-java-was-free-android-had-no-licensing-problem/ [18:55] my alexa came in today [18:55] nice! [18:55] I expect a fully dictated blog post on it by 5pm [18:57] haha [18:57] i wonder if i can dictate blog posts on it.... [19:05] Man I <3 Jonathan Schwartz [19:05] Even if he pretty much handed the keys to Sun to Oracle he's still a class act [19:08] really? [19:08] I thought he was a jerk. [19:29] how so? [19:52] he ran sun into the ground. [19:53] sun was pretty evil with java even before teh oracle acquisition [19:53] I probably don't know what I'm talking about. [19:56] jrwren: I don't think anything could have saved Sun at that point [19:57] Linux took over the cheap servers [19:57] Java was not something that could be monetized [19:57] Sun's market was middle-tier servers and that market was evaporating [19:58] That and the dot-com boom was pretty much done [19:58] so they got disrupted on several fronts [19:58] and then the recession happened [19:59] hrm. could be. [20:00] it had already happened and nothing could be done? [20:00] still, seems like they could have done better seeing it coming, moving into something else, etc. [20:00] Those T1000, T2000 servers were damned sweet. [20:00] I'm not sure you can point to one thing and say "This is where he fucked up, and here's what they could have fixed" [20:00] still have more cores than most intel chips, and that was 10yrs ago! [20:00] BFD [20:00] I can ;] [20:00] cores schmores. [20:00] They sued MSFT. That was a mistake. [20:01] They won vs. MS [20:01] Actually... I take it back, suing them was not a mistake. [20:01] right. [20:01] and then MS created .NET [20:01] and then MSFT... exactly [20:01] they should have forced MSFT to give them their extensions and put them into Java 1.3 [20:01] but they didn't, cuz they are stupid. [20:01] That was a mistake [20:01] but it was also Gates /Ballmer era MSFT [20:02] so unlikely they would have cooperated [20:02] yup [20:02] still, they saw the changes, they could have implemented them themselves. [20:02] They'd sooner nuke the earth than cooperate [20:02] and java would have been better for it. [20:02] True [20:04] Thing is Oracle is a more aggressive company [20:04] and has a "killer app" product [20:04] yup [20:04] its terrible. [20:04] its sad. [20:04] Sun didn't have that [20:04] i only want a better world. [20:04] Oh no doubt [20:04] I think i was confusing Schwartz and McNealy [20:04] mcNealy was a jerk [20:04] its McNealy and Barksdale who I find reprehensible [20:05] Schwartz was a nice guy [20:05] unfortunately he was a nice guy that got stood up to take the fall [20:05] but he's also a smart person [20:06] and the whole Oracle thing being blamed on him is (I think) not entirely accurate [20:06] The only saving grace is Sun had open licenses on the good bits [20:07] Virtualbox, OpenOffice, and MySQL (yeah even MySQL) [20:07] just how open, we shall see. [20:07] Jonathan's testimony is gold [20:07] I saw your link. I didn't click. [20:07] Basically "Google was well within their rights. Oracle has no case" [20:08] Sun would have liked to work more closely with Google, but it didn't pan out [20:08] also: for a CEO he knew his shit. [20:09] I think Schwartz was not CEO material; more CIO material. [20:09] but I'm grateful that he was so loose with the licensing [20:10] in retrospect it's kind of like the Open Gaming License that Wizards of the Coast generated that made something like Paizo possible [20:10] (which was engineered by the people at Paizo who knew their days at WotC were numbered) [20:16] Oracle is a mistake, one gigantic mistake [20:16] dressed in a 3 piece suit with a grin and a firm handshake [20:16] "Oh Java, OpenOffice.Org, and MySQL are all free, let's start charging for those!" Wooo, fragmentation! [20:17] I thought they had more trouble with outside contribution than charging [20:17] probably that too, but charging just pisses off GNU guys [20:17] Oh, other than the proprietary extensions to MySQL [20:18] https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2e2c1o/what_do_we_hate_oracle_for/ [20:18] God bless Reddit for a breakdown of how to hate. ;) [20:18] you'd think it would be 8chan [20:18] That's just blind hate [20:19] true [20:20] also, fuck, how did I forget Solaris? [20:21] Everyone on non-Sun hardware forgot Solaris [20:21] good point [20:21] i want to forget solaris [20:21] jrwren: Heh [20:22] Solaris was good when compared with HP-UX, OSF/1 AIX [20:22] insert and in there [20:22] that would be a fun 15 minute presentaiton: "Why Oracle sucks" [20:22] but that's like saying you're the nicest dressed person in hell [20:25] http://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-Water-Cooler/ [20:25] disagree. [20:25] i prefered OSF/1 [20:30] OSF/1 was decent. It had its moments [20:31] The version of UNIX that DEC had before OSF/1 was pretty terrible. [20:31] ultrix [20:31] yes, aweful [20:31] God [20:31] then osf1 became tru64, which was actually very nice. [20:31] I purged that from memory [20:31] Only reason AIX isn't purged from memory is because [20:31] friends still use AIX [20:32] the advfs in osf1, digitalunix and tru64 was like zfs or btrfs light. [20:32] really nice. [20:32] Never got that far into it [20:33] add a partition to a fs, fs instantly grows [20:33] nothing to it. [20:34] Ah, nice.