[10:28] <sakrecoer> on the facebook-page, in the thread inviting to contribute to the feature-definition, quite a few people are saying that they miss synaptic and gparted.
[11:47] <autumna> sakrecoer: were they supposed to be there?
[13:26] <OvenWerks> autumna, sakrecoer: they used to be there yes. We lost them due to sync with xubuntu-desktop. May I suggest a ubuntustudio-utilities meta?
[13:27] <autumna> OvenWerks: what I meant was was the change intentional. and I think ubuntustudio-utilities wouldn't be a bad idea
[13:27] <OvenWerks> Note ubuntu (and perhaps debian) would really like to get rid of synaptic.... but I have not found any GUI that replaces it.
[13:28] <OvenWerks> synaptic is not snap aware...
[13:29] <OvenWerks> The desision to sync with xubuntu was intentional. The loss of these utilities was not. But being DE agnostic has been considered more important.
[13:39] <autumna> no its just.. at least gparted was on livecd but not in install
[13:39] <autumna> ergo I wasn't sure if the package was just missing accidentally or got removed by design so to speak :D 
[13:39] <autumna> but yeah
[13:40] <OvenWerks> gparted is used by the installer... so it is there as part of that and like the installer it is removed/not copied on install.
[13:41] <OvenWerks> gedit, gparted and synaptic were originally added by design after xubuntu stopped including them.
[13:41] <autumna> *listens*
[13:42] <OvenWerks> mousepad has come a long way since then and so gedit is probably not needed. The other two are applications I install pretty quick on my machine.
[13:44] <OvenWerks> In fact I install them just for testing a lot of the time. Synaptic in particular allows easy access to an application's depends and a list of installed files.
[13:45] <OvenWerks> This is more important to someone developing a distro than using the distro for sure though.
[13:46] <OvenWerks> One of the features of synaptic I consider very important is that it tells you what packages it is going to remove so it can install whatever it is you are thinking of installing.
[13:46] <OvenWerks> niether USC or Software do that.
[14:18] <autumna> OvenWerks: nah if you are a power user it does end up becoming handy too (synaptic) 
[14:18] <autumna> I have mixed feelings about gnome software. it feels a bit clunky right now. 
[15:20] <OvenWerks> autumna: gnome software is there so ubuntu can push commercial developers to use snap packages.
[15:20] <OvenWerks> Or perhaps this is at the request of these people.
[15:21] <OvenWerks> I think snap is diven by money interests rather than practical interests.
[15:22] <autumna> what is the advantage of snap for commercial developers?
[15:22] <OvenWerks> 1) it carries a specific version of libs with it.
[15:23] <OvenWerks> 2) I think there are some security things in there that help with code blobs
[15:23] <OvenWerks> 3) Something like synaptic will not tell the user what files are included :)
[15:24] <OvenWerks> perhaps others.
[15:24] <OvenWerks> Basically the packager has much more control and the user has less.
[15:28] <OvenWerks> synaptic seems to be in maintenance only... some bugs are fixed from time to time... there are 4 merge proposals waiting right now.
[15:28] <zequence> sakrecoer: I say we create a new meta package which is useful on all DE environments - and add synaptic and gparted to that meta
[15:28] <zequence> Neither of those are DE specific
[15:28] <OvenWerks> someone is trying to add snap packages to synaptic it seems
[15:34] <zequence> sakrecoer: OvenWerks: we were discussing the option of adding a new package called ubuntustudio-desktop-common, and seemingly we have two candidates for that new package
[15:34] <zequence> Two candidates for dependencies, that is - synaptic and gparted
[15:35] <OvenWerks> zequence: sounds good. Perhaps make a diff from 14.04 and 16.04 (-desktop) and see if there are any other differences that make sense. (some things are better to let go of, gedit is no longer needed)
[15:41] <OvenWerks> zequence: is desktop-core a part of desktop?
[15:52] <OvenWerks> Not so easy as I thought :P
[16:14] <zequence> OvenWerks: desktop-core is inherited into -desktop, so everything in -desktop-core is also in -desktop
[16:14] <zequence> This is done in the file STRUCTURE
[16:15] <zequence> OvenWerks: I'm pretty sure that most of the difference is of not matter - things that you can find on all DEs
[16:15] <zequence> A text editor, a browser, etc.
[16:16] <zequence> synaptic is no longer in any flavor, I think. gparted may be in some DEs
[16:16] <zequence> gparted is IMO a DE agnostic disk manager, and is probably not absolutely needed
[16:16] <zequence> ..since there are already disk management tools on all DEs
[16:17] <zequence> But, I guess you could say gparted is to disk management what synaptic is to package management - slightly more manual
[16:17] <zequence> ..and more advanced
[16:18] <zequence> OvenWerks: I didn't know about the problems with editing the menu, btw. It's too bad ours is broken by the existing tools
[16:19] <zequence> Wonder how much trouble it would be to fix those making them do things right
[16:29] <sakrecoer> zequence, OvenWerks : such a meta is a very good idea.
[19:10] <OvenWerks> zequence: Re: menu editors... No one is really interested in fixing things even with a merge or patch to do it for them. Even the opendesktop site says one thing in text and then the example menu layout goes against it. I put in patches for lxde, xfce, gnome, and xubuntu. The only one that was accepted was xubuntu.
[19:11] <OvenWerks> The truth is that DEs are moving away from menus as fast as they can and while there is still a system menu available in xfce's panel... no one wants to improve it.
[19:12] <OvenWerks> There are a lot of people who like the search style of application starting/finding.
[19:13]  * OvenWerks finds proof of dinasourism in himself ;)
[19:44] <autumna> yeah but one isn't a replacement for other.. 
[19:46] <OvenWerks> autumna: that is correct, I use the system menu. Someone using the pc for entertainment is probably not using UbuntuStudio.
[19:47] <autumna> well even if you are using the pc for entertainment. games, video players, other software, categorization never hurt anyone