[00:01]  * ahoneybun goes back to making a chroot 
[00:01] <ahoneybun> mariogrip what was that package?
[00:02] <mariogrip> a browser, ill send it in soon
[00:04] <slangasek> ogra_: sure did
[00:07] <ahoneybun> ohhh
[00:18] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: https://reep.io/d/r7wsl29pzc
[00:19] <ahoneybun> downloaded going to install in a min
[00:19] <ahoneybun> the chroot is almost done
[00:20] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: thanks :D
[00:20]  * ahoneybun wonders what that is 
[00:22] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: it's an html browser :)
[00:22] <mariogrip> https://github.com/browserhtml/browserhtml/
[00:22] <ahoneybun> mm sounds simple
[00:23] <ahoneybun> that's a pretty crazy idea
[00:23] <mariogrip> yep :P but it works great
[00:24] <mariogrip> browser inside a browser :P
[00:24] <mariogrip> and that you can open a browser inside that
[00:24] <mariogrip> then*
[00:24] <ahoneybun> trhe heck
[00:25] <mariogrip> :P
[00:25] <ahoneybun> I did not see a browser in a browser
[00:25] <ahoneybun> mm
[00:25] <ahoneybun> on that page anyway
[00:26] <mariogrip> not there,  but i debug it with chrome
[00:26] <mariogrip> i start an nodejs server that serves this browser
[00:26] <ahoneybun> so it is hooking into yours?
[00:27] <mariogrip> no, only when i debug. it's an standalone app
[00:27] <ogra_> you should really put that into a container that you put in a click that you run in a snap
[00:27] <ogra_> (always that half breeded stuff ... tsk )
[00:29] <mariogrip> ogra_: yeah, i'll (try to) snapcraft it
[00:30] <ogra_> :)
[00:30] <ahoneybun> the heck
[00:30] <ahoneybun> mariogrip that worked
[00:30] <ahoneybun> well Bing loaded lol
[00:31] <mariogrip> google seems to block iframe
[00:31] <mariogrip> so, google does not work
[00:31] <ahoneybun> launchpad too?
[00:31] <mariogrip> i dunno, haven't tested
[00:32] <ahoneybun> I'm saying LP did not load
[00:32] <ahoneybun> duckduckgo did
[00:33] <mariogrip> oh, yeah it seems to be blocked that to
[00:33] <mariogrip> i dunno why they block it
[00:33] <ahoneybun> weird
[00:33] <ahoneybun> want screenshot?
[00:33] <mariogrip> yeah sure :)
[00:35] <ahoneybun> mariogrip https://www.flickr.com/photos/44748317@N08/26705786890/in/dateposted-public/
[00:36] <Acou_Bass> nice one :D
[00:36] <ahoneybun> lol
[00:36] <ahoneybun> Hangouts work in Convernge
[00:36] <Acou_Bass> does it work in mobile-mode?
[00:36] <ahoneybun> yea
[00:36] <ahoneybun> it did not loss the call when switching
[00:36] <Acou_Bass> i mean... im aware the hangouts.google.com site has the worlds worst mobile interface, but still
[00:36] <ahoneybun> which was amazing
[00:37] <ahoneybun> yea it does
[00:37] <ahoneybun> mariogrip https://www.flickr.com/photos/44748317@N08/26705786600/in/dateposted-public/
[00:37] <ahoneybun> here is the real one lol
[00:38] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: awesome :D
[00:38] <mariogrip> also awesome picture of me :P
[00:39] <mariogrip> oh? i didn't know you could change the background https://www.flickr.com/photos/44748317@N08/26825825372/in/dateposted-public/ ahoneybun
[00:39] <ahoneybun> it just changed it in the lock screen when mobile
[00:39] <ahoneybun> but when it is docked it is the background
[00:40] <mariogrip> oh, that's cool!
[00:40]  * Acou_Bass REALLY needs to get his slimport fixed
[00:40] <ahoneybun> yea but that wallpaper was the size for the tablet
[00:40] <Acou_Bass> i wanna test convergencey stuff moe
[00:40] <ahoneybun> I need a new better one
[00:40] <ahoneybun> and a real bluetooth mouse
[00:41] <Acou_Bass> its my phonet hats duff not the cable... USB port is fiddly
[00:41] <mariogrip> lol, do have a fake bluetooth mouse :P i didn't know they existed ahoneybun
[00:41] <mariogrip> do you ha...**
[00:41] <ahoneybun> mariogrip the one I got has BLE
[00:42] <ahoneybun> which does not work atm with Ubuntu
[00:42] <ahoneybun> even desktop for some reason
[00:42] <Acou_Bass> the cable on it is that invisible string you get on those fluffy worm toys so it looks wireless ;D
[00:42] <mariogrip> ahh, ok :P
[00:42] <ahoneybun> not sure if a bluez issue in Kubuntu as well
[00:52] <ahoneybun> mariogrip tempted to use that hangout screenshot on my LoCo twitter account lol
[00:54] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: sure, go ahead :P
[00:54] <ahoneybun> XD
[00:57] <ahoneybun> mariogrip https://twitter.com/ubuntufl/status/730924757483294720
[00:59] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: :P
[01:00]  * ahoneybun wonders who is MissyUbuntuCat 
[01:00] <ahoneybun> https://twitter.com/MissyUbuntuCat
[01:00] <mariogrip> it's an Norwegian hacker cat, that loves Ubuntu.
[01:01] <ahoneybun> I'm guessing you own the account
[01:01] <ahoneybun> lol
[01:02] <mariogrip> nah, it's my cats accout
[01:12] <mariogrip> here we go https://uappexplorer.com/app/browserhtml.mariogrip
[01:27] <ahoneybun> mariogrip you pushed it?
[01:27] <mariogrip> ahoneybun: yeah
[01:27] <ahoneybun> that was fast
[01:29] <mariogrip> :P
[07:41] <Awesomeslayerg> Hi all I'm wondering what Android version the latest Ubuntu touch phablet is based on?
[07:50] <Nyms> Hello
[07:51] <Nyms> I'm on a fresh ubuntu LTS install (16.04)
[07:52] <Nyms> And I would like to resume the dev' of my application
[07:52] <Nyms> It's used zbar for scanning barcode
[07:52] <Nyms> sudo apt-get install libjpeg-dev libzbar0 zbar-tools libzbar-dev libv4l-dev libqrencode-dev
[07:52] <Nyms> and I've this error : :-1: erreur : error: /usr/lib/libzbar.a: No such file or directory
[07:58] <popey> Nyms: odd, that works for me here
[07:58] <popey> oh, you get the error when you run your app?
[07:59] <popey> Nyms: maybe the app needs rebuilding?
[07:59] <popey> Nyms: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libzbar.a is where the file really is
[07:59] <popey> (on my 64-bit ubuntu install)
[08:04] <Nyms> You're right
[08:04] <Nyms> Thanks popey
[08:42] <brunch875> Am I the only one who wakes himself up by reading the mailing list in bed?
[08:52] <Smurphy> Yes... I read the Mailinglist in front of my coffe at breakfast ... :D
[08:53] <Smurphy> Talking about mailing-list. anyone got a good RSS newsfeed reader for ubuntu-touch ? the ones that are there are not yet what I really think is best TBH...
[08:56] <brunch875> I'm getting my hopes up for thunderbird to get to utouch
[08:56]  * mcphail chokes
[08:57] <mcphail> Surely thunderbird needs to be put out to pasture?
[08:57] <Smurphy> thunderbird ??? for mail ?
[08:57]  * brunch875 feels the peer pressure
[08:57] <mcphail> :)
[08:58] <brunch875> (: I suppose you're right
[08:58] <brunch875> better have multiple programs doing stuff right than one which does everything
[11:04] <brunch875> Man, pidgin is pretty sweet. I wonder if it'll reach utouch :)
[11:38] <Acou_Bass> brunch875: thats the one thing im waiting for on utouch, a multi-protocol IM program
[11:38] <Acou_Bass> sailfishOS has a super nice one, would love to see a similar thing
[11:39] <brunch875> let's STEAL it :Þ
[11:39] <Acou_Bass> wil sailfish apps run on utouch (assuming they are re-packaged correctly)?
[11:40] <Acou_Bass> i suppose if not, the best bet would be just to run pidgin in libertine for the time being ;D
[11:41] <mhall119> Acou_Bass: multi-protocol IM is planned, the developers are working on the backend stuff now to allow 3rd party plugins
[11:41] <Acou_Bass> ahhh sweet
[11:41] <brunch875> that's pretty fantastic news
[11:41] <Acou_Bass> is it going to be a seperate app? or will it be in the messaging app (or is it too eary to tell)
[11:41] <Acou_Bass> and is it using libpurple? telepathy?
[11:49] <mhall119> Acou_Bass: it's a bit more complicated because we want to ensure confinement, so your MSN plugin can't snoop on your GTalk conversations
[11:50] <Acou_Bass> ahhh true
[11:50] <JanC> doesn't the phone already use telepathy for some things?
[11:50] <mhall119> they will all be together in one app, but the framework will keep the actual code separate
[11:50] <Acou_Bass> yeah
[11:50] <mhall119> JanC: yes, the SMS app uses it
[11:51] <Acou_Bass> so visually, as far as me as joe average user can see, theyre all in one app, but under the hood, GTalk cant see MSN :D
[11:51] <mhall119> and I think the plan is for that app to become the multi-protocol app
[11:51] <mhall119> Acou_Bass: correct
[11:51] <Acou_Bass> thatd be great
[11:51] <mhall119> Acou_Bass: it all also hopefully be a simpler API than telepathy or libpurple, to make it easier to add services
[11:51] <Acou_Bass> this is a spot where i found android annoyingly lacking... and something i miss from my n900
[11:51] <JanC> will that also apply to the call app?
[11:52] <Acou_Bass> so would love to see it working on utouch ;D
[11:52] <mhall119> JanC: I'm not sure, I haven't heard of any plans for the phone app
[11:52] <JanC> would be nice to switch seamlessly between mobile calls & various VoIP
[11:52] <mhall119> Acou_Bass: tvoss might be able to tell you more about the current status and planned timeline for this
[11:53] <Acou_Bass> see, just as a non-dev i would love to see it using libpurple purely because the plugins are already there ready to be used, but i suppose as long as the biggies are implemented it doesnt matter toomuch
[11:54] <JanC> Acou_Bass: telepathy can already use libpurple to implement protocols
[11:54] <Acou_Bass> yeah but he said the new app isnt using either of them
[11:55] <JanC> well, it's already using telepathy for SMS
[11:55] <JanC> they just need to add some stuff to separate the processes that implement the protocols, I think?
[11:56] <Acou_Bass> no idea ;D either way, all sounds cool
[11:56] <JanC> well, "just"... it probably requires some work & testing to get that completely right  :)
[11:57] <Acou_Bass> anyhoo, gotta go worky :P thanks for the info mhall119
[11:57] <mhall119> np
[12:02] <JanC> I guess for text messages it would be possible to design a simpler API
[12:03] <JanC> (than telepathy/libpurple)
[12:09] <tvoss> JanC, telepathy is the underlying middleware tying things together, however, we are indeed going to offer an API that is (a.) aiming to ease backend development and (b.) allow us to alter/update/maintain telepathy without breaking existing backend implementations
[12:09] <JanC> ah, that makes sense
[12:53] <saavento> Hi
[12:54] <davmor2> saavento: hello
[12:54] <brunch875> haha
[13:39]  * lotuspsychje is running telegram snap from ubuntu-desktop
[13:40] <lotuspsychje> great work guys!!!
[17:37] <skay> hey, when I try to adb shell to my m10 should it pop up an authorization dialog? I'm not getting that
[17:44] <ogra_> skay, did you enable developer mode ?
[17:46] <skay> ogra_: yes
[17:47] <ogra_> then it should work (at least from a xenial install)
[17:47] <Funmungus> Is there any message on the client ssh'ing from?
[17:48] <ogra_> ondra, do you know if the M10 adbd is backwards compatible to older adb clients ?
[17:48]  * ogra_ always forgets 
[17:53] <skay> Funmungus: is there a verbose mode for adb for phablet-shell etc?
[17:54] <skay> ogra_: using xenial
[17:54] <ogra_> Funmungus, ssh is just a normal ssh as used anywhere else in ubuntu
[17:55] <ogra_> (the sshd on the devices has key authentication hardcoded though and password login disabled ... for obvious security reasons ... you need to put your key on the device first)
[17:58] <Funmungus> There is no verbose mode for adb, as I understand.  adb --help for list of commands
[17:59] <Funmungus> As for message, I meant what happens when you type "ssh phablet@ip" from your pc?
[17:59] <skay> Funmungus: yep, I checked -h
[17:59] <skay> Funmungus: I'm not actually using ssh, I was trying adb shell
[18:01] <Funmungus> sorry my misunderstanding.  try "adb kill-server" and then "sudo adb devices"
[18:01] <Funmungus> or "adb devices" and see if it says "connected" or "no permissions"
[18:01] <ogra_> Fumif you didnt enable ssh from the terminal or a formerly established adb connection it will simply refuse
[18:02] <skay> Funmungus: unauthorized
[18:02] <skay> great googlymoogly I got the prompt
[18:02] <Funmungus> k.  "adb kill-server" and restart as root
[18:02] <ogra_> (and if you didnt copy your key in place but ssh is running it will reject the auth attempt)
[18:02] <Funmungus> Yay prompt. grats
[18:03] <skay> Funmungus: after killing hte server, and then sudo-ing adb devices I got the prompt on the tablet. thanks :)
[18:03] <Funmungus> welcome
[18:03] <skay> I recently got the tablet and haven't gotten around to playing with it much beyond browsing and reading email
[18:04] <skay> just got a bt keyboard and mouse (connected the mouse yesterday, it's not discovering today)
[18:04] <skay> and it's not discovering the keyboard at all
[18:05] <ogra_> i think many BLE devices still have some issues ... it got a bit better with the first OTA but is surely far from perfect for that device class
[18:05] <Funmungus> I just ordered mine yesterday, so I do not know device-specific things yet
[18:08] <Funmungus> Might try removing remembered devices and reconnecting though.  On my PC the BT keyboard had some difficulties with entering randomized passkey on the keyboard.
[18:09] <ogra_> if it is discovered it usually works fine ... prob is the desicovey
[18:09] <ogra_> *discovery
[18:09] <skay> I'll forget and remember, and play around a bit
[18:09] <skay> my partner just told me that going to get coffee will also help. bbiab
[18:09] <skay> ogra_: Funmungus thanks for the help
[18:10] <skay> I'm a little happier
[18:10] <ogra_> np
[18:10] <Funmungus> Welcome
[18:20] <mimecar> good evening
[18:39] <ck_aut> Hi! I have a question. Is ist possible to get read write permission on touch with tje termibal only, or do i need the android-tool-dba?
[18:40] <ck_aut> Sry...small keypad
[19:07] <pmcgowan> ah he's gone
[20:18] <sebsebseb> hi
[20:24] <mimecar> hi sebsebseb
[20:37] <Funmungus> @ck_aut, yes. as root `mount -o rw,remount /`
[20:38] <ogra_> Funmungus, thats definitely the wrong answer ... (unless he is developing the system itself)
[20:38] <ogra_> (but he is gone anyway)
[21:02] <Funmungus> Thanks ogra_, now I have looked up android-gadget-service and learned the correct way.
[21:03] <ogra_> :)
[21:04] <ogra_> making the system writable is in 99% of the cases not the right answer ... finding what the issue is the person wants to solve and helping him/her to solve it without making the device writable is the right way usually ;)
[21:22] <nhaines> ogra_: you still around?  I have a libertine question.  :)
[21:22] <ogra_> i'm in your TZ, so indeed :)
[21:23] <nhaines> Oh really?  Nice.  Where's the sprint?  :)
[21:23] <ogra_> vancouver
[21:23] <ogra_> warm and sunny :)
[21:23] <nhaines> Ooh, nice.  I see it's a beautiful 20°!
[21:24] <ogra_> (or ... hot and snappy :) )
[21:24] <nhaines> It's a lovely 25° here, hehe.
[21:24] <nhaines> Okay, so I'm doing an Ubuntu 16.04 LTS presentation tomorrow and wanted to show off Unity 8.  Since it's not working on my desktop (again), it's Nexus 7 time!
[21:24] <nhaines> The recommended image doesn't appear to have Libertine installed.  The pd image has lots of fake desktop icons.
[21:25] <nhaines> What do you recommend is the best way to run desktop apps on a Nexus 7?
[21:25] <ogra_> libertine indeed
[21:25] <ogra_> i assume you have seen the gdoc ?
[21:25] <nhaines> (I did make the tablet r/w and install things and it ran really nicely, but now that we have OTA-11 RC things, it's reflash time.)
[21:25] <ogra_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
[21:26] <ogra_> (you might not need the first part, since that only exists when there is a container in the ro bit ... which ubuntu-pd doesnt have i think)
[21:26] <nhaines> Yes, but I don't have libertine.
[21:26] <ogra_> in -pd ?
[21:26] <ogra_> you should
[21:26] <nhaines> In stable/ubuntu
[21:26] <ogra_> ah
[21:27] <ogra_> well, you said you'd re-flash
[21:27] <ogra_> do that with -pd then
[21:27] <nhaines> Ha, yes, I just did (with stable/ubuntu, which I was using earlier).
[21:27] <nhaines> Okay, so re-reflash.
[21:27] <ogra_> pd and then just follow the gdoc and install your apps
[21:28] <ogra_> (and perhaps wipe the .desktop files for the non-existing apps in -pd)
[21:28] <nhaines> Can I remove the false icons?  Like, if I want to install GIMP?
[21:29] <ogra_> you need a new .desktop file anywaŷ for the new container ...
[21:29] <ogra_> you can use that one as input indeed
[21:29] <nhaines> What exactly was OTA-11 supposed to do to make managing Libertine more user-friendly, btw?  I haven't noticed any changes since OTA-10.  :)
[21:30] <SylvieLorxu> Is OTA-11 out?
[21:31] <nhaines> SylvieLorxu: probably week of the 16th.
[21:31] <SylvieLorxu> Oh cool
[21:31] <ogra_> nhaines, i think the libertine-scope will be pre-installed
[21:31] <ogra_> which willl give you a handfull of apps to install
[21:31] <nhaines> But I'm running the first "release candidate" image of OTA-10.  :)
[21:32] <nhaines> ogra_: Hmm, that'd be new, because it didn't a week ago.  :)
[21:32] <ogra_> (on -pd and the tablet images that is)
[21:32] <ogra_> but i am not sure
[21:32] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: Does it also move Firefox and so to "Legacy apps" so I know which apps need bluetooth keyboard? Because this way super confusing when I first got it :P
[21:32]  * SylvieLorxu read up a bit on Libertine
[21:32] <ogra_> (snappy kind of keeps me busy enough to not follow the phone/tablet development to 100% anymore)
[21:33] <ogra_> SylvieLorxu, i dont know whats fixed yet ... i know there is work going on to actually give you an OSK with these apps though ... but not sure thats OTA11 or 12
[21:33] <nhaines> Oh, I know the feeling.  Always kind of sad.  :)
[21:33] <nhaines> It must be OTA12.
[21:33] <ogra_> well, new duties ... it is how it is :)
[21:34] <SylvieLorxu> ogra_: Okay, thanks ayway
[21:34] <nhaines> Yup.  I've been having soooo much fun with lxd... trying to snappify software with snapcraft.  Haven't succeeded once so far, but at least I'm ruining container dev environments and not my shiny new 16.04 LTS install. ;)
[21:35] <ogra_> there will be new examples soon (the guys around me just work on them) ...
[21:35] <nhaines> In the bzr branch I hope.
[21:35] <ogra_> and new interfaces to give you more abilities
[21:35] <nhaines> I'm really eager to get Snappy 16 onto my RPi2.  :)
[21:35] <nhaines> Although technically if I install Ubuntu MATE...
[21:36] <ogra_> that will still take a while ... we only just re-defined the gadget and kernel snaps ...
[21:36] <ogra_> i'm waiting for zyga to develop the new "ubuntu-image" tool that will be able to handle them
[21:36] <ogra_> expect first experimental images in ~4 weeks
[21:36] <nhaines> Aww, I was expecting them in 1 or 2.
[21:37] <ogra_> well, re-doing stuff from scratch takes its time ... sadly
[21:37] <nhaines> It took long enough for me to grok lxc... It doesn't make sense for me to attempt snaps if everything I'm going to learn changes again so soon.  :)
[21:37] <ogra_> but you can use snps on your desktop meanwhile :)
[21:37] <ogra_> ***snaps
[21:38] <nhaines> Yes, but dpm gave me the RPi2 from the Ubuntu booth at SCALE and I promised him I'd put it to good use.  ;)
[21:38] <ogra_> and there should be tons of them soon
[21:38] <ogra_> sergiusens, released a telegram snap for the desktop yesterday ... try it ;)
[21:38] <nhaines> Still, I'm much happier that you guys got snapd into Ubuntu 16.04 LTS and are being careful to do things *right* on full-snap systems.
[21:38] <nhaines> Donno, not sure I can trust him. ;)
[21:39] <ogra_> *I* do ... so can you ;)
[21:39] <ogra_> trust me
[21:39] <ogra_> :P
[21:39] <nhaines> What I *really* want is the SDK app, not the repackaged desktop app.  Although the desktop app does in a pinch.
[21:39] <nhaines> Plus!  Now I don't have to file that bug about ubuntu.com advertising Telegram as a main feature of Ubuntu on the desktop and it's not available on the desktop.  :P
[21:40] <ogra_> over time everything will become a snap (i hope)
[21:40] <nhaines> I can very vividly imagine running Ubuntu 16.04 for the next 2 years because all the software I *need* to be newer is a snap.
[21:41] <nhaines> I mean, I won't, but I can't imagine it. ;)
[21:41] <nhaines> s/can't/can/
[21:42] <nhaines> But if I were running a small business (as opposed to sole proprietorship) there just wouldn't be any alternative.  It'd be the perfect thing!
[21:42] <nhaines> Which almost makes up for the Ubuntu Business Remix that was only around for 3 months in February 2012.  :P
[21:43] <nhaines> I want the phone/tablet welcome wizard on the desktop installer.  It's beautiful~~.
[21:49] <ogra_> it will be in the unity8 desktop images i supposed
[21:50] <ogra_> suppose
[21:50] <ogra_> .... eventually
[21:50] <bregma> for the record, the OSK in XApps may not show in in OTA-12 either, although it might
[21:51] <bregma> the libertine scope will not be pre-installed in OTA-11 but it will be available from the store just like any click -- but the changes so it will work will be included automatically in OTA-11
[21:51] <ogra_> you mean it wont magically implement itself ?
[21:52] <ogra_> you really need to put more AI into your prototype code in the future, so it adds such features on its own ;)
[21:53] <bregma> ogra_, of course it will just implement itself, we just need to feed it better craft beer
[21:53] <nhaines> bregma: so here's the question!  *when* does it hit the store?  :)
[21:53] <nhaines> (i.e., right now so it's in time for my demo tomorrow?)
[21:55] <bregma> it hits the store when OTA-11 comes out, otherwise it just won't work
[21:55] <ogra_> sergiusens, https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko
[21:56] <nhaines> Aw.  I thought the store filtered that automatically.  :)
[21:56] <bregma> nhaines, it might, but either way....
[22:15] <nhaines> Hmm, it looks like maybe the Google Doc won't work... the Exec= field says "/bin/true"
[22:15] <nhaines> Which I find suspicious.  :)
[22:16] <ogra_> no, thats fine
[22:16] <ogra_> dont touch the file content apart from Icon=
[22:16] <ogra_> the actual info is in the file name
[22:16] <nhaines> hax!
[22:17] <nhaines> Okay, I'll wait patiently for this installer to finish.
[22:17] <nhaines> Does this mean if I install LibreOffice and GIMP and GEdit, they'll just work?
[22:24] <Acou_Bass> bregma: does this mean i wont have to use ubuntu-pd images anymore?
[22:31] <bregma> Acou_Bass, only the -pd images have libertine-tools and XMir installed
[22:31] <bregma> for now...
[22:31] <nhaines> I suppose the next question is: when does that change?  :)
[22:32] <bregma> I can't say for sure, but if I had to guess (and I'm only guessing), maybe OTA-12
[22:32] <nhaines> I can see the OMGUbuntu article now.
[22:32] <Acou_Bass> yeah but i mean, if/when libertine scope hits the store (after OTA 11 stables?) will that OTA have the libertine tools?
[22:32] <nhaines> Acou_Bass: no, because that depends on the system image, and it's different for different devices.
[22:32] <Acou_Bass> ahhh
[22:32] <Acou_Bass> right
[22:33] <nhaines> Acou_Bass: so if you have an MX10 you *already* have the libertine tools.
[22:33] <bregma> yep
[22:33] <Acou_Bass> yah, i dont have an mx10, i have a nexus 4 hehe but i run -pd ;D
[22:33] <nhaines> Then likewise.
[22:34] <bregma> we went with a separate base image for two reasons:  (1) we needed to demo the Pocket Desktop and didn;t want to break shipping phones to do that, and (b) we didn't want to ship X11 on the phones at all
[22:34] <Acou_Bass> well yeah that was my query though - right now im using -pd builds, but would the libertine tools one day make it into non-pd images?
[22:34] <Acou_Bass> ahhh right ok
[22:34] <bregma> now that we proved our point, we want to go back to one single Ubuntu that rules them all and in the dark will bind them
[22:34] <Acou_Bass> yah
[22:35] <Acou_Bass> ;D
[22:35] <bregma> eventuall, extend that to the desktops
[22:35] <nhaines> bregma: so will 95% of everyone with Ubuntu devices just be angry when OTA-11 hits and there's a libertine scope in the store that doesn't do anything because they don't have a tablet?
[22:35] <bregma> all your base images are belong to us
[22:36] <bregma> nhaines, the scope requires a framework that is only on the -pd images, so it just shouldn't show up for other images
[22:36] <Acou_Bass> nhaines: but he said libertine will be in the store, not preinstalled
[22:36] <bregma> that is how I understand it
[22:36] <Acou_Bass> if it were preinstalled i imagine people would be angry, but if not (and if the scope doesnt even show up instore for us) then i guess wed have no reason to be angry :P
[22:37] <nhaines> Acou_Bass: no, just a scope to interact with Libertine software.  Libertine itself won't be in the stores.
[22:37] <Acou_Bass> yeah sorry i meant scope =)
[22:37] <nhaines> bregma: hmm, I'll be peering at the scope's click metafiles then, probably.  :)
[22:38] <bregma> our plan is to have the libertine scope on the image with OTA-12, and remove the build-in icons from the Dash so there is no duplication and they people don;t expect Xapps to run just like native Apps
[22:38] <nhaines> The fact that this container is still sitting around trying to update is just another reminder (that I didn't need) how nice image-based installs and updates are.  :P
[22:38] <bregma> but things may change, they usually do
[22:39] <nhaines> I think removing X apps from the launcher is a miscalculation.
[22:39] <nhaines> I'm also sort of curious what happens to user data when they upgrade and the puritine container is gone.
[22:40] <bregma> nhaines, eventually there will be an aggregating scope and they'll be back
[22:40] <bregma> hopefully they will work better by then
[22:41] <bregma> nhaines, your data is stored in bind-mounted directories under $HOME, they should be OK
[22:41] <bregma> *that* part has been tested
[22:41] <nhaines> bregma: that's good to hear!  :)
[22:41] <bregma> yes, my Steam games.....
[22:41] <nhaines> I wish the N7 -pd image had the puritine container baked in.
[22:42] <bregma> nhaines, there were partition size issues that prevented flashing from working
[22:42] <ogra_> no, you dont ... (fine for demos but really annoying when you want to remove bits)
[22:42] <nhaines> bregma: oh, doubtless.
[22:42] <sebsebseb> the google docs guide
[22:43] <sebsebseb> if doing it for  inkscape or whatever
[22:43] <ogra_> yeah
[22:43] <sebsebseb> woudn't really effect anything else?
[22:43] <nhaines> ogra_: yes, but it's demos I want.  ;)  Or at least a downloadable container.
[22:43] <sebsebseb> if I then factory re set tablet it's wel defaults again?
[22:43]  * bregma has to take off for the weekend
[22:43]  * ogra_ has scribus, inkscape, vlc, smplayer and a ton of stuff i forgot installed
[22:43] <nhaines> bregma: have a grat weekend.  :D
[22:43] <ogra_> bregma, enjoy
[22:43] <sebsebseb> ogra_: yeah I haven't tied yet
[22:43] <nhaines> s/grat/great/
[22:44] <sebsebseb> ogra_: still a bit hmm to it as well, like will it effect my OS install some how kind of  thing
[22:44] <sebsebseb> ogra_: I was thinking I could try a bit on tablet, I want to do a factory re set a bit later on anyway
[22:44] <ogra_> sebsebseb, no, it wont ... all stuff goes into your homedir
[22:44] <sebsebseb> oh ok
[22:44] <sebsebseb> also the guide is a bit confussing
[22:44] <ogra_> you can just blow away the container with libertine-container-manager and start over if you want
[22:44] <sebsebseb> how do you change the name of the program you want to install
[22:44] <sebsebseb> and  edit the icons?
[22:45] <sebsebseb> and I assume I got to do the guide using the terminal app as well
[22:45] <ogra_> well, the .desktop file stuff is still a bit fiddly
[22:45] <ogra_> but that also lives in your homedir
[22:45] <nhaines> Oh good, errors were encountered processing: "x11-common libxtst6:armhf libfakekey0:armhf isc-dhcp-client: matchbox-keyboard matchbox"
[22:45] <nhaines> I'm sure I don't need x11-common.
[22:45] <sebsebseb> yeah exactly how to change the icon when on that step
[22:45] <sebsebseb> it's not so clear from the guide
[22:46] <ogra_> you edit the .desktop file
[22:46] <ogra_> and point to an icon you provide
[22:46] <sebsebseb> and how does it actully apt-get in fact, it never actusally says apt-get  in any of the commands
[22:46] <sebsebseb> how do you edit the desktop file?
[22:46] <ogra_> (you can fish it out of the container or just use one you download from somewhere)
[22:46] <ogra_> editor ;)
[22:46] <nhaines> sebsebseb: apt is container magic!
[22:46] <sebsebseb> an editor that has to work in the termianl though for the guide/
[22:46] <sebsebseb> ?
[22:47] <ogra_> any editor that can access the files ... nano, vi whatever
[22:47] <nhaines> Speaking of which, I wonder if I can chroot into this container and fix things, because it looks like it froze at 97%.
[22:47]  * sebsebseb wasted the evening doing uh  well not much,  nearly mid night now. might try the tabet thing soon hmm
[22:47] <ogra_> check libertine-container-manager --help
[22:47] <ogra_> there is a command to exec commands inside the container
[22:47] <sebsebseb> ogra_: converged gedit could access the file?
[22:48] <ogra_> no
[22:48] <sebsebseb> yeah I was thinking such
[22:48] <sebsebseb> that no not that
[22:48] <sebsebseb> need something in terminal
[22:48] <ogra_> yeah
[22:48] <nhaines> sebsebseb: nano!  :)
[22:48] <ogra_> but nano is installed
[22:48] <ogra_> and vi
[22:48] <sebsebseb> I haven't really usded nano or hwawtever much
[22:48] <sebsebseb> so
[22:48] <sebsebseb> that's it's own experience tryiing to uh
[22:48] <ogra_> so you even have choice ;)
[22:48] <nhaines> There's nothing here about execing commands inside the container.
[22:48] <nhaines> sebsebseb: nano is easy.  :)
[22:49]  * ogra_ doesnt have the tablet handy atm, else i could tell you 
[22:49]  * sebsebseb tends to use Gedit or something else thats graphical maybe in normal Desktop LInux
[22:49] <sebsebseb> well mine is in the case in front of me...
[22:49]  * sebsebseb should probably try the guide really and stop being such a scardy cat?
[22:50] <ogra_> nhaines, you are looking for "exec" in the --help
[22:50] <nhaines> sebsebseb: nano is pretty simple.  Just Ctrl-o to save.
[22:50] <sebsebseb> Dr Pepper  what's the worst thing that could happen, when using the guide.  oh and sadly  the shops I was at earlier on today no Dr Pepper I wnted some of that
[22:51] <nhaines> ogra_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16399813/
[22:51] <sebsebseb> ogra_: still going to need a keyboad and mouse for certian programs I guess once on?
[22:51] <nhaines> sebsebseb: all programs.  :)
[22:52] <sebsebseb> ogra_: I wonder if I could play mealstrom for example :), old Astoridies like game
[22:52] <ogra_> nhaines, oh, that seems to be a different version
[22:52]  * ogra_ just grabbed hiw M10 ... 
[22:52] <ogra_> *his
[22:52] <sebsebseb> nhaines: have you done it? the guide?
[22:53] <ogra_> libertine-container-manager exec -i container -c bash
[22:53] <ogra_> that works here and gives me a shell
[22:53] <ogra_> ;)
[22:53] <nhaines> sebsebseb: no, and it's not looking so hopeful at the moment, either.
[22:53] <sebsebseb> ogra_: nhaines sounds like next week won't really need that guide anymore,  but  the fun would be using the guide I guess first :d right?
[22:53] <sebsebseb> nhaines: not looking hopeful why?
[22:53] <nhaines> Hmm, not sure if it worked or not.  Maybe.
[22:54] <nhaines> sebsebseb: because it won't get as far as building a new container.
[22:54] <sebsebseb> nhaines: oh I see your trying to do the guide now
[22:54] <nhaines> Yes, earlier this week I took the standard image and made it rw and installed libertine manually.
[22:55] <sebsebseb> ogra_: guide shouold work on the default verison of touch or the update? I haven't done the ota update that I know there is yet, I could do though
[22:55] <sebsebseb> nhaines: yeah I saw that earlier, that's the old thing, not needed anymre, since the guide
[22:55] <sebsebseb> nhaines: that could be your issue to, that  you made everything rewriteable and now tryiin g that guide and yeah
[22:56] <sebsebseb> the guide is for when everything isn't read write, I think
[22:56] <sebsebseb> ogra_: whats the link again?
[22:57] <sebsebseb> ogra_: I think I am going to try now yep
[22:57] <nhaines> sebsebseb: yes, but libertine won't create a working container, so the guide is useless until then.
[22:57] <sebsebseb> nhaines: but ogra did the guide I Think and had stuff working?
[22:57] <nhaines> sebsebseb: if there's a libertine container, it probably all just works.
[22:58] <sebsebseb> nhaines: yes you got to change purtine on the tablet that was my understanding
[22:58] <sebsebseb> purtine is the demo liberatin continer with FIrefox and what not
[22:58] <nhaines> I don't have puritine, so it doesn't apply.
[22:59] <sebsebseb> nhaines: you do if got the tablet
[22:59] <sebsebseb> or by default you did :d
[22:59] <ogra_> sebsebseb, always do the update !
[22:59] <sebsebseb> ogra_: normally I would I just hadn't with that yet
[22:59] <ogra_> sebsebseb, it isnt my guide :)
[22:59] <nhaines> sebsebseb: no, it's not available on the Nexus 7.
[22:59] <ogra_> i think it was done by mzanetti
[22:59] <sebsebseb> nhaines: yep no purtine then yep
[22:59] <ogra_> i just spread the link
[23:00] <sebsebseb> purtine is for tablet
[23:00] <sebsebseb> ogra_: yeah what's the  llink again I Will try :)
[23:01] <Acou_Bass> quick query... is there any way to fix overscan with utouch plugged into hdmi?
[23:01] <nhaines> Acou_Bass: don't I wish.
[23:02] <Acou_Bass> xD
[23:02] <Acou_Bass> shame
[23:02] <Acou_Bass> :P
[23:07] <nhaines> Ooh, now I need to find out where this telegram snap is saving all of my data.
[23:45] <sebsebseb> ogra_: nhaines Hmm well that's a good start (sarcasm), terminal app is just white
[23:46] <sebsebseb> can't put in commands
[23:46] <sebsebseb> I remember using that on a phone before and having to put in my pass code, can't do anything
[23:46] <sebsebseb> maybe there 7th May update doesn' work so well with the deafult tablet version of the OS hmm