=== Sergio is now known as Guest48638 [01:45] Hi everybody. I would like to install Ubuntu Touch on Asus Zenfone 2, could you help me? [05:26] Hallo There - this is my first time here - does somebody have experience with GPS Problems? I have aquaris 4.5 and for the last two days I have no GPS/location service. anyone experience this kind of a bug? many thanks [05:27] danwe: check our topic for existing bugs [05:27] danwe: if you cant find similar, we advise a new !bug [08:59] Hmmmm. If I don't get the bluetooth handsfree running in my car and my bike - I guess I'll have to revert my BQ4.5 to android :( [10:08] Smurphy: I wish there was more progress on the Bluetooth issues. === Phil is now known as Guest39480 [10:16] yes. Me too... [10:20] And bluez is so tersely documented it is hard to help out [10:40] hello [10:42] Hii [10:42] Good morning [10:42] I'm using chatter app on my ubuntu phone [10:42] And works good [10:44] I liked to know when we can use unity launcher on bottom ??? [10:47] Hii === Undertasker1 is now known as Undertasker [12:38] [13:25] Am I too optimistic to wish for steam + steam games to reach utouch? [13:25] gaben seems like a coolgui. Maybe he pushes it [13:36] Hi there, I recently bought a BQ Aquaris M10 Ubuntu Edition. With this I also bought a CSL Bluetooth Keyboard. I was able to connect it to the tablet. It works. But I have a german keyboard layout. Unfortunately I'm not able to put in the special (for german keyboard layout) charactes like the @ sign. Combination of the ALT key with the CTRL key doesn't work. Any help? [13:37] brunch875: would require the games to be recompiled for ARM. Not going to happen [13:37] hnnng but I believe in gabenn [13:38] games like half-life; it's from 1996 [13:38] sdl [13:38] sdl isn't magic [13:39] * brunch875 's dreams are crushed [13:40] you'll need to content yourself with baldur's gate, dosbox and (possibly) scummvm for now [13:43] talking about games [13:44] did any rougelikes hit the store? [16:01] mcphail: we have dosbox?/ [16:33] anyone here? [16:35] maybe [16:40] Acou_Bass: are the converged apps [16:40] the standard Ubuntu programs in normal Desktop Ubuntu? [16:40] or arm versions? [16:41] i believe there are x86 versions of the core apps yeah [16:41] i could be wrong [16:42] Acou_Bass: yeah that's what I thought [16:42] Acou_Bass: apparnatly can run loads of stuff on Android to via someting or the other hmm. full Debian even or pretty much, just someone saying something another channel [16:42] people there were also a bit like Ubuntu convergence is a bit pointesls since... [16:43] there are apps thatll install a full debian ARM image to android and chroot into it to run applications [16:43] Acou_Bass: yeah that's probably what he linked to [16:43] but ubuntu touch runs the apps right on the hardware and turns into a real desktop when plugged in [16:43] completely different setup hehe [16:43] seems can then run graphical progarms on Andorid via Debian as well [16:43] with basically no security [16:44] well, its chrooted... but thats about it [16:44] and afaik, that project is so far only actually built for nexus 5 on top of CM [16:44] Acou_Bass: dobey yeah I got linked to this: https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoDebianInAndroid [16:44] there are lots of projects that are all basically the same thing [16:44] debian chroot in android [16:44] https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoDebianInAndroid [16:44] sebsebseb: yeah, it's just a chroot though [16:44] usually either using an android port of Xorg, or a VNC server for display [16:44] dobey: seems it can run graphical progarms to though? [16:45] not withou an X server to display them on it can't [16:45] ful GNOME 3 even? [16:45] there is an Xorg server for android, but most of the apps just VNC into it [16:45] its a very hacky solution [16:45] oh [16:45] so Ubuntu convergence isn't pointless then :d as I thought [16:46] if it's on an external display, i presume it runs an X server on the HDMI connection, and not on the device itself [16:46] it also provides no real interaction between the two systems [16:46] i have no idea about how it works on external display [16:46] also I got the like, why would you want to run desktop programs designed for mouse nad keyboard on a phone or table etc from someone else [16:46] ive never tried that [16:46] why not just use a pc hting [16:46] h e h [16:46] well that person doesnt understand ubuntus convergence at all [16:46] I think we need to wait for another two or so ota updates going by my chat here the other day [16:47] because the apps have two seperate UIs, one for touch one for desktop and it automagically springs between them [16:47] ,but once that, I guess people will see the potential of Ubuntu convergence more then [16:47] it really is cool xD [16:47] the apps well via xmir get the two guis the two set ups? [16:47] nah xmir apps arent convergence-ready for the most part, only the actual uTouch apps hehe [16:47] right. running legacy x11 apps is basically orthogonal to the idea of convergence [16:48] basically just there for exactly that [16:48] LEGACY support [16:49] :P [16:49] because no one will ever want to use ubuntu on desktop if all their faovurite linuxey apps dont work on it [16:49] you mean on phone or tablet?? [16:49] well... ubuntu touch is eventually going to be 'normal' ubuntu [16:49] being able to run lots of standard Desktop Linux programs and properly, I see as a selling point, if it's not going to support say Andorid apps [16:49] so it needs legacy desktop app support [16:50] 20 years worth ( or for the most part) worth of Desktop Linux progarms [16:50] the native apps are still lacking [16:50] the good ones to [16:51] yaeh ive found that... theres a lot of webapps and not a whole lot of real native apps in the store [16:51] exactly which sucks really [16:51] ,but being able to run lots of Desktop LInux programs will be good :) [16:51] which would be awesome, if the webapps were as awesome as they used to be back in... 12.10 was it? when they had notification intergration and everything [16:51] web apps are generally seen as eh [16:51] need good naive apps [16:51] FWIW, i run a fair few desktop linx programs on my ubuntu touch phone and they work great [16:52] as in, 'legacy' ones hehe [16:52] Acou_Bass: yeah the guide way? [16:52] the what way? [16:52] the purtine hak? [16:52] hack [16:52] oh that's only on tablet [16:52] puritine isnt a hack, but yes [16:52] XD [16:52] there's a hack for purtine [16:52] to get other stuff running [16:52] but apparantly in about a week or two it should be easier to install stuff without that [16:52] its not really a hack... you just use the puritine app to install more programs.. [16:52] XD [16:53] ok so this debain for android thing [16:53] is uhmm [16:53] not so great? [16:53] https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoDebianInAndroid [16:53] Acou_Bass: popey has a build of dosbox. Don't think it is store-ready yet [16:53] thats awesome [16:53] i love dosbox [16:53] scummvm even more :D [16:53] mcphail: dosbox interesting [16:53] mcphail: I was actsaully thining about wine the other day and I guess today a bit to [16:53] if could run Wine on the tablet :D [16:53] broken sword and monkey island on utouch :D [16:54] sebsebseb: i dont think wine has an x86 to ARM translator... so probably not [16:54] scummvm is in progress [16:54] * sebsebseb hasn't done the purtine hack thing yet, but soon I guess [16:54] oh actsally [16:54] wait no now I Remember what it was [16:54] coooooool [16:54] so with the default installed version of Ubuntu touch [16:54] i love me some scummvm [16:54] that came with the hd tablet [16:54] the terminal app well is just white. that's it [16:54] doesn't work [16:54] I should probably OTA update and yeah yeah and I will sure, but what I just put [16:55] seems they updated it the other day the terminal app and I guess it broke that version of Ubuntu touch maybe? [16:55] mcphail: what's scumvm ? [16:55] what terminal app? [16:55] dobey: Ubuntu core developers? [16:55] I thought I needed to install a terminal to run the guide :d [16:55] afaik, no retail devices include a terminal app by default [16:56] sebsebseb: open source engine to run old point and click adventures [16:56] dobey: exactly so get one from the app store, then do the guide for purtine I was thinking :d [16:56] scummvm is a game engine (or collection of) emulator that runs awesome old-timey point 'n click games [16:56] its epic [16:56] how am I going to be able to run commands without a terminal :d ? [16:56] well, not sure what you are trying to do exactly [16:56] dobey: I wanted to follow the guide for purtine so I could try out other programs [16:57] so I installed the terminal from the app store and my above issue [16:57] dont you have the libertine scope/app? [16:57] i don't know what guide you're talking about [16:57] Acou_Bass: oh maybe I don't know [16:58] dobey: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit [16:58] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4 [16:58] Acou_Bass: you can't create new containers or install apps in the current container, on the shipped image, because stuff is installed in the read-only space, and there are symlinks to it [16:58] oh, didnt know that [16:58] im not using the tablet, im using the -pd builds on nexus 4 [16:58] so the container is in /home [16:58] yes with the tablet can use an unoffial guide to hack purtine [16:58] sebsebseb: well, the only reason i'd think you might need a terminal is to delete the symlink and copy the one file over, but i think you can do that with the file manager app too (though also not installed by default) :) [16:58] so it can have other stuff [16:59] Acou_Bass: right, because that doesn't ship with a pre-built container [16:59] dobey: well looks like need to run some commands for the guide [16:59] dobey: makes sense :D i dont know much about the tablet so forgive my ignorance ;D [17:00] so on tablet, the puritine container is in /opt or something? [17:00] sebsebseb: well if terminal app is giving you issues at the moment, you could use phablet-shell over usb or ssh in if you've enabled ssh, as a workaround [17:00] dobey: well terminal app could be having problems, since I haven't done a ota update I was thining [17:00] Acou_Bass: the retail image has it in /custom/ i think [17:00] and it seems it's been recently updated as well teh termianl app [17:00] ahh [17:00] fun [17:00] ;D [17:01] sebsebseb: no idea. i don't have any issues with terminal app on either of my nexus phones [17:01] * sebsebseb or I could wait a bit longer and install it in the what's coming way that was being chatted about here the other day, but want to try hack first really :d [17:01] dobey: it coulld break depeding on the version of touch installed? [17:01] it's not the latest version [17:02] when I tried it on bq and meizu phones in the past that worekd but there have been updates [17:02] sebsebseb: shouldn't. could be some issue with graphics on that device though perhaps [17:02] with graphics how so? [17:03] dobey: it is the tablet of the two with the apparantly not as good resolution or whatever it was tok, but uhmm [17:03] seems to have been ok for everything else I done with it so far [17:04] sebsebseb: i mean terminal app has some funky graphics features for the funky themes. it could be something in terminal app triggering a rendering issue perhaps. but that's just speculation [17:04] sebsebseb: like i said, i have no idea really. i don't have an m10 myself [17:04] oh ok [17:04] terminal app has themes?? [17:04] been using this thing for like 2 months andnever once noticed :D [17:04] dobey: well I'll do the ota update later on I guess, and then try the termianl app again [17:05] dobey: however you made it sound like I may not need the terminal app actsaully to follow the earlier linked to guide anyway? [17:05] Acou_Bass: yes [17:05] sebsebseb: right, if you have developer mode enabled, you can shell in over usb, or if you also enabled ssh, you can ssh to the device over wifi [17:05] hmm, doesnt seem to change it for me, wanted to try the coolr etro term theme ;( XD [17:06] dobey: nope no developer mode enabled I think at the moment [17:07] dobey: Acou_Bass going back to earlier berifly, what's better then :d or will be and why? Ubuntu convergence or that Debian for Android thing I linked to? [17:08] i reckon ubuntu by miles... purely because (unlss you run puritine apps) youre not having to faff around with weird crap like chroots and compatability layers [17:08] just plug your phone into a TV and boom, desktop [17:09] Acou_Bass: sure, but I meant for running the Desktop Linux programs :D [17:09] a real PC :) [17:09] but ubuntu touch apps *are* desktop programs :p [17:09] Acou_Bass: you know what I ment old stuff xorg [17:09] well eh [17:10] i would still say ubuntu because its still a lot less layering than the android thing [17:10] what you mean layering? [17:10] takes less to do it? [17:10] android is like... debian chroot -> chrooted xorg -> VNC -> android display server -> TV [17:10] i dunno [17:11] maybe for legacy applications, probably not much different [17:11] Acou_Bass: you also put earlier that Ubuntu touch will be Ubuntu eventually what so we should be able to change to other things that aren't Unity in the future then other de's etc? :d [17:11] i didnt quite mean that (though i hvae no idea) [17:11] i meant that desktop ubuntu will eventually be running exactly the same stuff as ubuntu phone [17:11] so unity 8 mir 'core apps' etc [17:11] yeah :) [17:12] the only difference will be arm vs. x86 and possibly whether its rootable easily? (and obviously physical size) :D [17:12] Acou_Bass: and yeah chroot's uhmm no thanks, just want the stuff to work, teriminal stuff editing files etc, no thanks, just want the stuff to work, like is the aim for convergence [17:13] well presumably once unity 8 hits desktop, youll still need the libertine chroot to run legacy apps? unless they give us a way to do it by just apt-getting on the rootfs [17:13] Acou_Bass: I think there's going to be a graphcal way even [17:13] a package manager [17:13] etc [17:13] I had a chat here the other day [17:13] (or, even better, if they convert all the .debs into .clicks with automagic xmir compatability in the click) [17:13] XD [17:14] there already is a GUI for libertine containers ;D thats how i do it on my nexus 4 hehe [17:14] Acou_Bass: that will be default in the next ota update I think or the one after [17:14] i just dont know if libertine will be a thing on desktop, or whether itll just all be doable with clicks [17:15] I think the next two ota updates should provide inteesrng things going by my chat here the other day [17:15] i think the most interesting developments will be coming in the next few ubuntu desktop releases [17:15] now the LTS is out the way, they can start experimenting [17:15] yeah [17:16] we already have clicks on desktop should you wish to try them... would like to see all the things converted to click packages and unity 8 become default (or at least a usable option without having to jump through PPA's) [17:16] there is no ubuntu touch. there is only ubuntu [17:16] Acou_Bass: dobey why t he interest in Ubuntu touch persoanlly for you I wonder :) ? [17:16] dobey: well Ubuntu Touch is currently based on standard Ubuntu or something like that [17:17] mostly because i was a hardcore nokia n900 user which was basically debian linux in a phone, and could run xorg apps with zero effort - and since losing that phone ive been pining for a real linux phone again [17:17] Acou_Bass: uhmm right but there's the Jolla phone [17:17] sebsebseb: i mean, it is jsut ubuntu. it's just device-specific image builds of ubuntu, with a few things that aren't in the archive, and a tiny container to run some android bits on top of the android kernel. it is however for all intents and purposes, just "Ubuntu" [17:17] which cant run xorg apps at all hehe [17:17] Acou_Bass: former Nokia people with yeah SalifshO [17:17] they aren't "Ubuntu Touch Phones"; they are just "Ubuntu Phones" [17:18] sailfishOS is even more proprietary than android is [17:18] and, while it is a SERIOUSLY nice phone OS, i cant in good conscience use it for that reason (not to mention that while it is linux underneath, i cant do anything linuxey on it) [17:18] whereas on ubuntut ouch i can use emacs, and libreoffice, and all those goodies [17:19] Acou_Bass: right, but can't you also use emacs etc, on that Debian for Androdi thing like that guy was basically trying to tell me earlier in another channel hmmn ? [17:19] probably [17:19] but then id have to use android [17:19] which i, excuse my french, F'ing hate [17:20] yes the Ubuntu kernel in Ubuntu touch has soe Android stuff or that stuff right [17:20] it's ok, android hates you too [17:20] plus there's someting propritary I belive to even get on moible networks [17:20] good, i hope it does [17:20] well yeah [17:20] the propritary thing may have come from Android to I don't know for networks [17:20] android hates everyone [17:20] but that's side stuff [17:20] to what I am about to ask :) [17:20] theres the android drivers/libhybris, and then the proprietary phone baseband blob that all phones have [17:20] other topics even not relivent for what I am about to ask Acou_Bass [17:20] go on? :P [17:21] Acou_Bass: Why don't you like Android? [17:21] what is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow? [17:21] urgh where to start [17:21] its bloated as hell, the apps are like 50mb apiece just for some basic crap, its a security hole waiting to happen, its rammed full of spyware [17:21] android covertly ignored my privacy for one [17:21] oh, but loads of people love Android! I mean it's apparently so amazing! [17:22] you need a £500 phone just to run android without lag, and even then it lags like hell after a few months of use [17:22] sebsebseb: i guess you should use windows and android then, since they're so amazing [17:22] dobey: he h I being not serious don't you see :D [17:22] and they both have like 85-90% market share [17:22] or just saying lilk the main stemae [17:22] etc [17:22] not to mention even if you buy a £500 android phone, itll be dead after 6 months because the manufacturer is too lazy to push updates to it [17:22] I have never been keen on Android [17:22] so you either have to manually flash cyannogenmod on it or stick with insecure rubbish [17:23] something I notced very soon when installin an app or two [17:23] was guess what? [17:23] Acou_Bass: eh? my nexus 5 wasn't that expensive, and it ran android fine, and still works :) [17:23] may not be Android's fault as an OS, but since it's popularity sure [17:23] adverts uh! [17:23] nexus's are a really great exception to a lot of my problems with android [17:23] yes Nexus is meant to be stock Android [17:23] nexus 4's when they came out were absolute show-stoppers [17:23] but still [17:23] spyware-laden [17:24] Acou_Bass: spyware laden how? [17:24] well, at least with lollipop i could make the phone respect my privacy [17:24] because google basically have a direct line rammed into the back [17:24] XD [17:24] but with marshmallow it's impossible [17:24] Spyware? You mean like Ubuntu's Amazon search? Here, take this: <°(((>< [17:24] :) [17:24] not to mention all the apps dont work if you dont enable their horrendously invasive permissions [17:24] uh 6.0 I thought apaprnatly had better privacy settings or something? [17:25] Acou_Bass: yes I didn't like that, apps wanted access to like nearly everything, most of htem [17:25] them [17:25] lol no [17:25] dasjoe: sure, that thing was just as bad spyware, but that was a single click to disable :P [17:25] 6.0 automatically uploaded all my contacts to google without my consent, as soon as i upgraded, and had no way to disable storing contacts on google [17:25] ok so we are using UBuntu touch, since for our own personal reasons we don't like Android? [17:25] in 5, i could at least disable the contacts sync and store contacts locally [17:25] no im using ubuntu touch because its awesome :P [17:26] and, right now, is the best phone OS for my needs [17:26] Acou_Bass: and you hate Android or strongly dislike [17:26] before ubuntu touch i ran firefoxOS [17:26] yeah I got a Firefox phone to [17:26] never did calls from it though or texts, [17:26] i'm using ubuntu because it's ubuntu and not android or ios, and hp killed webos, and well, developing it is also my job [17:26] dobey: oh you help develop Ubuntu touch? [17:26] sebsebseb: difficult to say... android in its consumer-buyable form, i HATE, but the more open forms like CM, i just merely dislike [17:27] there is no ubuntu touch. there is sonly ubuntu. :) [17:27] Acou_Bass: the consumer versions tend to come with some junkware sure, and why do you dislike CM? [17:27] dobey: that's not qujite true yet but I do see that in the future #ubuntu will be the like go to place for support with the phone and tablet to [17:27] mostly because its still just the same bloated mess and, a lot of the time needs the same spyware to go with it to install apps on (eg. googz play) [17:27] awesome https://code.launchpad.net/~andreas-pokorny/mir/fix-1580774 [17:28] it is true. this is mostly a development channel, not a support channel [17:28] dobey: for now yes [17:28] is there a seperate support channel? [17:28] dobey: and #ubuntu is for the desktop versions that are still in support for now [17:28] ive beenasking in here when i need hlep... XD [17:29] dobey: but start going on about touch lots there, and they will probably be liek go to #ubuntu-touch at the moment [17:30] Acou_Bass: bloaed as in what, spyware? bloated can mean diffenret htings [17:30] as in [17:30] not spyware... just heavy [17:30] far too big in size [17:30] apps are gigantic for what they do [17:30] Acou_Bass: apps come with adverstg and bad persmisoins to yeah [17:30] and it's hard to find th decent apps [17:30] since way too many in play really [17:31] even the ones that dont [17:31] theyre still massive [17:31] sebsebseb: #ubuntu is for all ubuntu [17:31] in a way that's a sort of advantage for Ubuntu touch to some extent [17:31] dobey: the topic doens't say touch :d [17:31] there [17:31] can go through the app store in not much for touch and get what is wanted [17:31] sebsebseb: like i said. there is no ubuntu touch. only ubuntu :) [17:31] but most of the native apps stuck for now [17:31] lets compare this [17:31] https://openrepos.net/content/accumulator/quickddit-0 [17:31] reddit app for sailfishOS [17:31] 240kb [17:32] https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.mhall119.ureadit [17:32] reddit app for ubuntu... 142kb [17:32] and the andoid one massive :D ? [17:32] well 100kb is not a particularly comparible difference [17:32] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.reddit.frontpage [17:32] reddit appp for android [17:32] also uappexpolorer is the unoffial thing [17:32] 6.6mb? [17:32] XD [17:33] Acou_Bass: yeah which isn't that much, but if you put on a lot of apps that are big [17:33] that 16gb or so space [17:33] can go hyeah [17:33] well, ureadit is a qml/js app. not a binary app [17:33] yeah [17:33] thats just a small example [17:33] and you are more likely to install lots of android apsp on android since you got play [17:33] reddit app on android is a compiled java app [17:33] ive had numerous android apps that are 50-100mb [17:33] text compresses much better than compiled binaries do [17:33] Acou_Bass: have you treid Remix OS that's nice :) [17:33] sure [17:34] Acou_Bass: Remix OS is a edited Android for x86 [17:34] and there will be plenty of such apps on ubuntu too [17:34] dobey: the technical reasons dont matter, fact is the android app is gigantic compared to utouch app hehe [17:34] presumably far less though? XD because most of them will be the same QML stuff [17:34] Acou_Bass: https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.docviewer -- 65 MB [17:34] hehe [17:34] point takne [17:34] :P [17:35] i expect anyone who wants to ship proprietary apps aren't going to ship them as qml [17:35] * Acou_Bass looks at how big the android equivelent is [17:35] Acou_Bass: Ubuntu touch has taken some stuff fomr Android, what you think of that? [17:35] stuff like what, the drivers/kernel? [17:35] yeah [17:35] necessary evil [17:35] im indifferent... XD doesnt really bother me either way [17:35] drivers are drivers [17:36] if they werent android, theyd stil be proprietary blobs [17:36] could have made own drivers :D ? he h [17:36] and own kernel that's android enoguh like h eh h [17:36] ? [17:36] obviously itd be better if they werent there... bt if they werent, we probably wouldnt have any ubuntu phones [17:36] instad of knicking things from android? h eh [17:36] Acou_Bass: telegramapp is 4.7MB on ubuntu [17:36] I mean it's meant to be it's own seperate OS right :) h eh [17:36] where does play store show app size? [17:37] on that app i linked it was in the 'read more' but [17:37] but weirdly a lot of apps dont show it [17:37] sebsebseb: 'nicking things from android' is inaccurate [17:37] dobey: I am saying a bit jokingly, but yes knicking/borrowing [17:38] sebsebseb: an extremely minor amount of binary bits which are required to make the hardware work [17:38] but yes it's mostly it's own OS completly, except for those few things I guess :D [17:38] sailfishOS uses the same bits too [17:38] but also has its own proprietary layer on top too (the GUI layer if i remember correctly) [17:38] actaully I don't know that much about that stuff, the kernel is open source I guess sure :d [17:39] but the drivers are not? [17:39] i guess depends on the drivers being used... i daresay some phones have some free drivers, but id imagine most have proprietary blobs [17:39] propribably blobs from the manufacture to work with Android? [17:39] there is a version of android that is 100% free/open source (analogous to the fully-free distros) but it runs on VERY select hardware [17:40] yeah there's a FSF one [17:40] yeah, the drivers and stuff [17:40] the hardware is only really [17:40] Apple or Android [17:40] fairphone i guess [17:41] hardware that's made for Apple or Android I mean [17:41] or maybe some intel devices [17:41] or windows [17:41] http://www.replicant.us/supported-devices.php [17:41] or Windows just about yeah [17:41] hardware made for WIndows just about [17:41] yep replicant that's the one [17:41]