[05:28] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:29] <Bashing-om> WB lotuspsychje .... Just like you left it .
[05:30] <lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om bumpy night?
[05:30] <Bashing-om> Nawww ,,, not to rough ..
[05:31] <lotuspsychje> great
[05:32] <Bashing-om> think'n bout time to hang out the 'done' sign . Think'n getting forced .
[05:33] <lotuspsychje> lol
[05:33] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: make sure tomorrow the sign 'alive' is back on your door :p
[05:34] <lotuspsychje> done sounds real final hehe
[05:35] <daftykins> >:)
[05:35] <daftykins> just for today i hope!
[05:35] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
[05:35] <daftykins> mornin' o/
[05:36] <lotuspsychje> yeah 8 hours pauze, we can 'live' with :p
[05:36] <Bashing-om> yeah .. I do think I done done it .. time to retire it for this session . Read yall later .
[05:43] <daftykins> phew :)
[05:48] <EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje daftykins
[05:48] <daftykins> \o
[05:48] <daftykins> my eyes are like @_@
[05:48] <lotuspsychje> hey morning EriC^^
[05:48] <lotuspsychje> lol
[05:48] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: watched triple 9 yet?
[05:48] <EriC^^> yeah
[05:48] <EriC^^> it was good
[05:49] <daftykins> wussat o0
[05:49] <EriC^^> volunteer down
[05:49] <EriC^^> :p
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> :p
[05:49] <daftykins> o0
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: new cool movie
[05:49] <daftykins> o rry
[05:49] <daftykins> who's the volunteer down? that was me! ;)
[05:50] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: kinda like heat
[05:50] <daftykins> is that a film?
[05:51] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: dont tell me you didnt see heat :p
[05:51] <daftykins> then i cannot type a response :D
[05:51] <lotuspsychje> with deniro & al paccino
[05:52] <daftykins> newp!
[05:52] <lotuspsychje> gotta see it mate, best movie ever
[05:52] <l0k1> ola algum brazuca?
[05:52] <lotuspsychje> if you like action that is
[05:52] <lotuspsychje> !english | l0k1
[05:53] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xbBLJ1WGwQ
[05:55] <EriC^^> i think i'm going to go to a place nearby and buy dvd's
[05:55] <EriC^^> my friend used to get them from there, they have like everything before it even comes in the theaters almost, movie for like $1 or $2
[05:56] <EriC^^> i saw like a ton of trailers on youtube last time and nothing on the torrent or other sites :/
[05:56] <lotuspsychje> regular or bluray?
[05:56] <EriC^^> regular :p
[05:57] <daftykins> dat 80s trailer
[05:58] <daftykins> er 90s i suppose :P
[05:58] <daftykins> EriC^^: how is that allowed to keep going?
[05:58] <daftykins> or do you have to say a code word then go into a back room ;)
[05:58] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: did you learn clutch very good yet?
[05:59] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: movie is much better then the 'old' trailer :p
[05:59] <EriC^^> hehe
[05:59] <daftykins> i'm just teasing :>
[05:59] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yes, its starting to come
[05:59] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but i will never be a real fan of it
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> when this car dead, i want automatic
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> i know its lame but..
[06:00] <EriC^^> to each their own
[06:01] <EriC^^> i was going to tell you to get that ticket to leb and come to drive my car and buy me stuff
[06:01] <EriC^^> lol
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> haha
[06:01] <EriC^^> fuck my laziness
[06:01] <daftykins> XD
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> a trunk full of blurays
[06:01] <daftykins> next you'll invite OerHeks and try to keep his dog Drabber to fetch you food from the kitchen
[06:02] <daftykins> !
[06:02] <EriC^^> i had it under control for a couple of days, i cleaned the car a bit, changed the fan clutch, fixed the tires and also tried to install the strut brace
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> we all need to win the lottery
[06:02] <EriC^^> the weather was too hot later, it reached 34'c O.o so i called it quits til it gets better
[06:02] <EriC^^> it usually barely reaches 34'c in the summer here
[06:02] <lotuspsychje> wow
[06:03] <lotuspsychje> we had 27 last week and its only may...
[06:03] <lotuspsychje> let the heat summer come :p
[06:03] <EriC^^> yeah it's odd
[06:03] <daftykins> hey waiddaminute there are TWO Tripolis!
[06:05] <lotuspsychje> trip what?
[06:05] <EriC^^> where is the second one? :o
[06:06] <daftykins> it's a city
[06:06] <lotuspsychje> oh
[06:06] <daftykins> one in north Lebanon, one in north-west Libya
[06:06] <EriC^^> tripoli is a city in lebanon, it's pretty remote from the main city beirut though
[06:06] <EriC^^> oh, not that remote really
[06:07] <EriC^^> i dunno why i was thinking saida
[06:07] <daftykins> EriC^^: you do all that funky right to left writing down there then? :>
[06:07] <EriC^^> haha yeah
[06:07] <daftykins> actually i don't know why i think it's right to left
[06:07] <EriC^^> i've not written in arabic in like ages probably
[06:08] <daftykins> hmm you can get away without?
[06:08] <EriC^^> yeah most everything is in english or french here too
[06:08] <EriC^^> i basically only used in arabic in arabic classes
[06:08] <lotuspsychje> cool so you speak french also?
[06:08] <EriC^^> lol no i was in an english educated school, i speak a little though
[06:08] <lotuspsychje> ah oui!
[06:09] <daftykins> :>
[06:09] <daftykins> EriC^^: does the country have many folks coming over from Syria?
[06:09] <EriC^^> yeah i think so
[06:09] <EriC^^> it's becoming a problem i think
[06:09] <daftykins> erk
[06:09] <EriC^^> i'm not much into politics, they all suck basically
[06:09] <EriC^^> everybody's a crook here in politics
[06:09] <daftykins> *nod* yeah i don't follow any
[06:10] <EriC^^> i have a sick idea for a youtube channel
[06:10] <EriC^^> it's kind of funny or silly i guess
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> youtube is gonna start paying services
[06:11] <EriC^^> paying what?
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> like netflix and such
[06:11] <EriC^^> it's really silly i think, i just typed it out and felt even more silly
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what would it be about?
[06:12] <EriC^^> basically i put a camera inside the car, and maybe a drone that can follow the car
[06:12] <EriC^^> well basically just going about lebanon driving and taking pics
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> sounds cool
[06:12] <EriC^^> and doing some sideway action and going up hill and stuff mountain roads
[06:13] <EriC^^> also i was thinking at night i could film races with people
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> a lebanon sightseeing channel
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:13] <EriC^^> yeah and at night i just drive around
[06:14] <EriC^^> and when somebody wants to have fun i can also film it
[06:14] <EriC^^> lol
[06:14] <lotuspsychje> then afterwards they all sue you for copyrights :p
[06:15] <EriC^^> i get a lot of people who want to have fun and stuff cause the car is pretty much a classic
[06:15] <EriC^^> and it has an engine swap, so it's pretty fast too, it can walk over the nissan 350z and stuff and give other cars a run for their money
[06:16] <EriC^^> it used to be twin turbo'd though before, and it was pretty sick, i wanted 600-ish hp from it and i only got to make it like 380bhp or so ( from 320bhp) so it was really low boost from the turbos
[06:16] <EriC^^> but it was pretty sick with the turbo's, the torque was insane
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> the streets are good to drive fast?
[06:17] <EriC^^> yeah the highways are pretty good
[06:17] <EriC^^> other streets as well
[06:17] <EriC^^> beirut is all good
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> mountains little rougher?
[06:18] <EriC^^> the main roads are pretty good they get tarmac'd every year or so
[06:18] <EriC^^> the old mountain stuff are rough though
[06:18] <EriC^^> like village stuff or places far that aren't main
[06:18] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[06:20] <EriC^^> those drones are pretty sick
[06:21] <daftykins> ooh it's raining just like the weather app predicted!
[06:21] <EriC^^> they shoot 4k and they can go for 4km and they can follow you around perfectly filming
[06:21] <EriC^^> obstacle avoidance and auto come back and land and stuff
[06:21] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah gonna rain here aswell later
[06:21] <EriC^^> costs $1400 though O.o
[06:21] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: i'll send it over with a note! :D
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: if one day a drone reaches my face, ill smack it down
[06:22] <EriC^^> would be so funny if it fell into some mountain side, no way
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> and take the hardware apart :p
[06:22] <EriC^^> lol
[06:22] <daftykins> i think you'd be too busy getting chewed up by rotor blades ;)
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> privacy man
[06:22] <EriC^^> yeah lol
[06:22] <EriC^^> you'll shoot arial shots and stuff
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> next drones will film us while naked baking in your own yard?
[06:23] <EriC^^> you bake naked in your yard?
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> no, but i could :p
[06:23] <EriC^^> lol
[06:23]  * EriC^^ note to never eat doughnuts at lotus's house
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> hahaha
[06:24] <EriC^^> lol
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> how about a hotdog?
[06:24] <daftykins> if you're offering
[06:24] <daftykins> bbq \o/
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> sure, or some tasty durum
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> nice we have google streeview to watch stuff around the world
[06:26] <daftykins> hehe except for over here ;)
[06:26] <daftykins> i think they came over and filmed, then our government said NEWP!
[06:26] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:26] <lotuspsychje> where is that again?
[06:27] <daftykins> Channel Islands :)
[06:29] <lotuspsychje> https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?t=k&oe=UTF8&msa=0&ie=UTF8&om=1&mid=1bSxM6h_SpUuDfNhFmOV0t3Oisg0
[06:29] <lotuspsychje> lol a part of a street oO
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> i wanna walk!
[06:30] <daftykins> nah wrong one
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> ah its aus?
[06:30] <daftykins> that's the only bigger one, look for the triangle :>
[06:30] <daftykins> nah correct area
[06:31] <lotuspsychje> jersey ok
[06:31] <daftykins> i live on Guernsey
[06:33] <daftykins> https://goo.gl/maps/1rRCqpcLoK62
[06:33] <daftykins> hey there's the cycle lane i ride :>
[06:34] <lotuspsychje> ah nice
[06:34] <lotuspsychje> streeview is so complicated grrr
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> wow the sea looks so nice
[06:39] <daftykins> it's a trap, even when it does it's cold as ice
[06:39] <daftykins> >:D
[06:39] <lotuspsychje> even is summer?
[06:39] <lotuspsychje> in
[06:40] <daftykins> hehe yeah last time i went to a nice bay it was
[06:40] <daftykins> like electric running up my leg!
[06:40] <daftykins> *TTZZZT*
[06:41] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:43] <EriC^^> there's a lot of nice pics of leb in google
[06:43] <EriC^^> https://www.google.com.lb/maps/place/Beirut/@33.8886289,35.4954794,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s-FEF_Xcs67GU%2FVqjTXo1WMmI%2FAAAAAAAAAZ4%2FM_cBDw8O3wEfyMtpUQZiYKu5nqwHk5q2g!2e4!3e12!6s%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2F-FEF_Xcs67GU%2FVqjTXo1WMmI%2FAAAAAAAAAZ4%2FM_cBDw8O3wEfyMtpUQZiYKu5nqwHk5q2g%2Fs203-k-no%2F!7i1024!8i683!4m5!3m4!1s0x151f17215880a78f:0x729182bae99836b4!8m2!3d33.8886575!4d35.4954529!6m1!1e1?hl=en
[06:44] <daftykins> :D
[06:45] <EriC^^> this ones pretty awesome https://www.google.com.lb/maps/place/Beirut/@33.8886289,35.4954794,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s-IHqMgnvFq3A%2FVqdsTYB79UI%2FAAAAAAAAAIE%2Fi8MoLl8MrFEFJHwU69Mui5nO8-k9uj8sQ!2e4!3e12!6s%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2F-IHqMgnvFq3A%2FVqdsTYB79UI%2FAAAAAAAAAIE%2Fi8MoLl8MrFEFJHwU69Mui5nO8-k9uj8sQ%2Fs218-k-no%2F!7i1920!8i880!4m5!3m4!1s0x151f17215880a78f:0x729182bae99836b4!8m2!3d33.8886575!4d35.4954529!6m1!1e1?hl=en
[06:45] <daftykins> ooh
[06:45] <EriC^^> i always feel like taking a camera and taking pics when i go out driving
[06:45] <daftykins> two tall buildings on the left look unfinished at the top :>
[06:45] <daftykins> do it :D be neat to see you guys areas
[06:45] <EriC^^> then i think it's kind of stupid cause you wont enjoy the view as much
[06:46] <lotuspsychje> nice
[06:46] <daftykins> that's why you take a tonne of pics and stitch 'em together :D
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> http://street360.net/#51.20936;3.22474;-111.72;4;1;7;1;h;0
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> this is where i live
[06:50] <EriC^^> you live in a souvenirs store? O.o
[06:51] <EriC^^> j/k
[06:51] <OerHeks> :-D
[06:51] <OerHeks> goodmeurning
[06:51] <EriC^^> good morning
[06:51] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i sell donuts :p
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
[06:52] <EriC^^> lol
[06:52] <EriC^^> at first i was scared it was a doughnuts shop
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: we are showing off street views of our city
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> giaqor: morning
[06:54] <OerHeks> nice site lotus, http://street360.net/#52.35605;4.65729;57.15;11.42;0.34;12;1;h;0 this is where i live
[06:54] <OerHeks> faster than google mups
[06:54] <daftykins> o/
[06:55] <daftykins> i choose to believe vlamingstraat is Flaming Street
[06:55] <OerHeks> EriC^^ is living in Beirut??
[06:55] <daftykins> lotus lives on flaming street, rawr
[06:55] <EriC^^> wow that's really cool
[06:55] <EriC^^> yeah OerHeks
[06:55] <OerHeks> vlamingstraat with childrenheads
[06:56] <daftykins> OerHeks: is the pedestrian crossing pole still leaning over drunk like that? :>
[06:56] <OerHeks> i would swear you live in England, nm
[06:57] <lotuspsychje> yeah better then google maps that site
[06:57] <OerHeks> still leaning over indeed
[06:59] <lotuspsychje> bbl guys breakfast :p
[06:59] <lotuspsychje> donuts :p
[06:59] <daftykins> !
[07:00] <OerHeks> vlamingstraat, that will be 1.5 day bicycling for donuts..
[07:01] <daftykins> maybe we should all turn up uninvited on the same day so lotus can order in 50 for us ;D
[07:01] <OerHeks> odd, 2 guys in #kubuntu, both cannot type the letter K in konsole..
[07:02] <OerHeks> yeah, surprice visit
[07:02] <daftykins> maybe they wore out the K from speaking about all the programs that start with K?
[07:02] <OerHeks> onsole?
[07:02] <OerHeks> daftyins
[07:03] <daftykins> XD
[07:04] <daftykins> onsole from the eyboard
[07:04] <OerHeks> he is still thinking about my advise: soap & water
[07:09] <EriC^^> i have a sticky "," key
[07:09] <EriC^^> the "l" was sticky i poured some "easy" window cleaner on it and it seems to have fixed it
[07:10] <EriC^^> that stuff is brutal, if you pour it on some plastic it it heats it up, but it cleans really well
[07:10] <daftykins> suddenly you were running windows ;D
[07:10] <daftykins> a 'clean' install :>
[07:10] <EriC^^> lol
[07:23] <EriC^^> wow the weather is perfect here today
[07:23] <OerHeks> here too, and someone sended me money, so i am singing
[07:24] <EriC^^> sun isn't hot, and the air feels clean and a light breeze and some white clouds
[07:24] <OerHeks> little cloudy, but nice temp
[07:39] <daftykins> then the doughnuts are on OerHeks! :D
[08:22] <OerHeks> !find donuts
[10:38] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[10:39]  * lotuspsychje sending his network-manager bug
[10:53] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1583114
[10:53] <lotuspsychje> there we go
[10:53] <lotuspsychje> anyone find a clue here, let me know :p
[10:58] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[10:58] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[10:59] <BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje, what's up today?
[10:59] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: just arrived, trying to solve my recent bug 1583114
[11:03] <lotuspsychje> hi there rilleh :p
[11:03] <lotuspsychje> and TJ-
[11:03] <rilleh> Whadapp
[11:03] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje:  this is on your laptop, right?  I have the dame BCM4313 on my lenovo, I just opened the network manager "edit connections" and deleted the ethernet connection. It reappears after a reboot but at leasr the annoyance is gone for the session
[11:04] <BluesKaj> dame=same
[11:04] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yep my netbook here
[11:05] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: but i also wanna use the ethernet at some times aswell
[11:05] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: did you notice that the wifi connection is called "Wired connection 2" ?
[11:05] <BluesKaj> yeah, it reappears after a reboot , not a fix but it's a workaround
[11:06] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: weird, in network connections/edit its named belkin7 1
  [1463567736.9384] device (wlp7s0): Activation: failed for connection 'Wired connection 2'
[11:07] <TJ-> i'd suggest deleting all the connections and recreating the Wifi connection first
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> ok lemme try that first
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> and reboot
[11:10] <BluesKaj> I think an upgrade eventually fixed it here, I haven't seen that problem since , actually
[11:12] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: lol wifi shows as cable arrows now
[11:12] <TJ-> that's the unity issue with NM and network-manager-gnome I guess
[11:13] <TJ-> but is it working correctly now? any more sign of the DHCP failing?
[11:13] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: well its hard to say, as this issue doesnt arise every boot
[11:13] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: ill keep an eye on it next few boots
[11:18] <lotuspsychje> ok, changed to ignore ipv6 and all users can connect to it
[11:18] <lotuspsychje> lets see what it does on reboot
[11:20] <lotuspsychje> wifi icon is back now
[11:22] <TJ-> it went out to lunch :)
[11:22] <lotuspsychje> lol
[11:22] <lotuspsychje> ill update the bug so far
[11:22] <lotuspsychje> and see what it does next reboots
[11:23] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: howto check if network names are good now?
[11:25] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: read syslog
[11:29] <lotuspsychje> not seeing connection2 anymore
[11:30] <lotuspsychje> belink7 1
[11:51] <lotuspsychje> rilleh: http://mixing.dj/2016/livesets/adam-beyer-drumcode-302-13-05-2016/
[12:11] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[12:12] <lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
[12:13] <pauljw> :)
[12:26] <brushdemon> elky: We need to talk
[13:47] <TJ-> !grub
[14:20] <OerHeks> nom nom nom http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10series/geforce-gtx-1070
[14:20] <OerHeks> daftykins ^^
[15:17] <lotuspsychje> hi de-facto
[15:46] <de-facto> Hey guys :)
[15:51] <lotuspsychje> hi there
[15:52] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/mark-shuttleworth-we-are-at-our-best-when-we-are-constantly-improving-504182.shtml
[15:56] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: good morning
[15:56] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/snappy-ubuntu-core-power-innovative-digital-signage
[15:57] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: a very good morning to you
[16:14] <lotuspsychje> man that curlyears found another trolling way again oO
[16:14] <nacc> lotuspsychje: :)
[16:14] <lotuspsychje> cant believe that guy is doing support also
[16:15] <TJ-> is that what you call it?
[16:15] <lotuspsychje> loll
[16:15] <lotuspsychje> ok 'trying' to do support
[16:16] <TJ-> pink noise?
[16:16] <lotuspsychje> he helped users for hours the other day
[16:16] <nacc> heh
[16:16] <lotuspsychje> god help em :
[16:16] <lotuspsychje> :p
[16:17] <TJ-> You know... 16.04's sheer number of bugs is exhausting me mentally
[16:17] <TJ-> Every day I aim to do something, I'm sidetracked dealing with yet more regressions that require diagnosing, isolating, and reporting.
[16:17] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i know its crazy
[16:17] <TJ-> this has to be the worst LTS ever
[16:18] <TJ-> and its not just in the fluffy stuff (GUI) its core stuff
[16:18] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: most tiring is the returning bugs, that actually should be solved and not return at all
[16:18] <TJ-> yes, regressions all over
[16:18] <nacc> are you seeing patterns at all? we could create rules for them, aiui, in launchpad
[16:19] <TJ-> the QA fell down on this one for sure. Dev's need to be tied to the unit-test chassis for all new code!
[16:19] <TJ-> nacc: no, it's literally across the entire code base. I think I reported/diagnosed (fixed a few) about 25 in the 1st week or so
[16:19] <nacc> TJ-: :/
[16:20] <TJ-> the common thread is the causes mostly feel "sloppy"
[16:20] <nacc> TJ-: yeah, i've fixed several,b ut mostly stuff i introduced because of the php7 transition :)
[16:20] <lotuspsychje> well i wouldnt call it the worst, as there is also good news really
[16:20] <lotuspsychje> but returning bugs on lts is not very pleasant
[16:21] <nacc> are they bugs with corresponding tests? that seems to be the biggest gap i've seen
[16:21] <nacc> things get fixed, but no autopkgtest for it gets written, so it can regress and no one will notice
[16:21] <lotuspsychje> kernel 4.6 also fixxes alot of xenial stuff
[16:21] <nacc> lotuspsychje: ack, esp. skylake stuff
[16:21] <TJ-> I was on a remote server support overnight, in a DC, 16.04 ubuntu-server ISO in 'expert' mode fails to install (configure) the kernel... why... because devtmpfs isn't mounted into /target/ so the root file-system's device cannot be located... why ... live-installer's postinst script comments out the step that mounts proc dev etc into the /target/ ... and no commit history, no changelog, as to why or
[16:21] <TJ-> when
[16:21] <nacc> intel found tons of bugs lately
[16:21] <lotuspsychje> nacc: yeah
[16:22] <TJ-> these 'little' things suck the time out of life
[16:22] <lotuspsychje> i agree, we should be able to focus on newer things then older bugs
[16:23] <TJ-> whilst doing that I also noticed the installer fails to reset the /dev/disk/by-uuid/ link names if installing to existing partitions but reformatting them, so UUID matching fails
[16:23] <TJ-> I think when we get to the 'Z' release we should suspend the next release for 12 months and have everyone focus on fixing the bugs
[16:24] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: ive been on xenial on the start fixing bugs
[16:24] <TJ-> we've got terrible documentation bitrot, we've lost the UDD so there's no fine-grained commit history for most packages, and its impossible to know where the source code for the package is being managed
[16:24] <nacc> TJ-: that's a kernel bug, no?
[16:24] <lotuspsychje> i wanna stick lts
[16:24] <nacc>   /dev/disk is managed by the kernel
[16:24] <TJ-> nacc: no, it's base-installer/debian-installer, failing to tell udev to redo the links
[16:24] <nacc> TJ-: ah
[16:25] <nacc> TJ-: for server side, we're working on it :)
[16:25] <TJ-> nacc: installer does a mkfs.XXXX /dev/sdaY but there's no event add/change event for udev to redo the links
[16:25] <nacc> TJ-: the "release" part of the server side is getting some more dedicated folks, it's a konwn issue
[16:25] <TJ-> nacc: it sure needs it, I'm getting tired!
[16:26] <nacc> TJ-: i'm one of those folks, if it matters :)
[16:26] <TJ-> there was a period when i actually felt proud of the new releases, but now I feel more like "uh-oh, brown stuff is about to hit the fan!"
[16:26] <nacc> TJ-: so while we may not have a perfect source solution going forward (ack on that sometimes being tricky), we are going to be introducing some git tracking for merges and fixes in the server-maintained pacakges
[16:27] <TJ-> nacc: well, if you need any more bodies that can fix stuff, shout me! anything to get these bugs cleared and a stable viable quality back
[16:27] <lotuspsychje> also ubuntu going the mobile way, its prudent not getting old bugs on new OTA's and stuff
[16:27] <TJ-> I've been working on Ubuntu since 2005 and its getting not to be fun
[16:27] <lotuspsychje> but so many things are changing here
[16:28] <nacc> TJ-: i think up to my joining the team, there was just 1 person on server for years just doing the maintenance, and it was going unnoticed :/
[16:29] <nacc> TJ-: i think the other issue is the 'ubuntu server' community (in my experience so far) is quite small and not very active in the fixing of bugs (beyond filing them :). We're now actively triaging again which will help
[16:29]  * TJ- shakes head ... too much chasing dreams instead of delivering quality
[16:29] <nacc> TJ-: 100%
[16:29] <lotuspsychje> agree
[16:30] <nacc> TJ-: for better or worse, they've realized it's a mistake now, at least
[16:30] <TJ-> nacc: it is pretty hard to miss :D
[16:30] <nacc> TJ-: you'd be surprisded (without going into the politics of it all)
[16:31] <TJ-> the 'pull things inside Canonical' approach that started back in about 2007 was the first sign I noticed when the creep started
[16:32] <TJ-> Let's hope that by the next 'A' release sanity has been restored
[16:32] <nacc> TJ-: i'm unfortunately ignorant of that stuff beyond being a user at the time (and not having any issues I couldn't solve myself)
[16:33] <nacc> TJ-: but i will work on continuing to champion for community interaction and involvement -- it seems a bit difficult to get htat going again at this point
[16:34] <TJ-> it was subtle, I only noticed it early because I was a member of the Ubuntu kernel team. without warning it suddenly became the "Canonical kernel team' with no notice or explanation; mailing-list content dropped off, visibility for the community was lost, and then I noticed it elsewhere
[16:34] <nacc> TJ-: sad.
[16:34] <TJ-> indeed, it's how to lose the dev community
[16:34] <nacc> absolutely
[16:35] <nacc> tbh, it's a control issue -- and i think canonical still doesn't fully know (not meant as a pejorative) how to manage both sides (still learning)
[16:36] <lotuspsychje> bbl
[16:36] <nacc> that's at least how it seems to me
[16:36] <nacc> i was at ibm before this and they had similar issues at the levels outside the linux division in terms of understanding the community 'cost' of doing enterprise work. you don't get it for free, in other words
[16:39] <TJ-> Yes, and I can understand it with IBM, but Canonical started from the community, employing the core Debian devs and so on, so it doesn't really have a great excuse... except the out-in-plain-sight joke-but-not-a-joke nickname of SADFL
[16:39] <nacc> TJ-: yeah, that part is sad
[16:40] <nacc> TJ-: if you have any great ideas on how to revitalize (in particular) the server community, i'd love to hear them :)
[16:41] <TJ-> I've worked full time on Ubuntu since 2005, but outside of Canonical's sphere, just to invest into the F/OSS community, so I guess I've got more exposure to it than most
[16:41] <TJ-> nacc: ship fantastic code and documentation - simple
[16:41] <nacc> TJ-: :)
[16:42] <TJ-> nacc: I used to run/own a group of IT businesses but sold out back in 2004, so I can pick and chose what I do now, and F/OSS is my 'work' I guess
[16:43] <TJ-> I prefer the tech to the C* roles
[16:44] <nacc> TJ-: it's a fair point, though -- i think i view it as a bit of chicken & egg. There aren't enough cnaonical folks to make "fantastic code and documentation" and add new features. And I doubt that there will ever be a release freeze (just my opinion) just to fix bugs. So the best way to improve code and documentation is to get more eyes and hands on it ... how to do that effectively is the question
[16:46] <TJ-> nacc: but there is an artificial 6 month 'sprint', rather than setting a quality deadline, its a calendar dealine regardless of quality
[16:46] <nacc> TJ-: ack i've noticed that too
[16:47] <TJ-> customers will forgive slipped deadlines; they won't long forgive shoddy buggy incomplete regressing code
[16:48] <nacc> that's what i would think too
[16:48] <nacc> i'm not privy to that level of discussion yet :)
[16:48] <TJ-> there's a reason RedHat turns over US$2bn
[16:49] <nacc> TJ-: yep
[16:49] <nacc> and why people are ok running RHEL5 still :)
[16:49] <TJ-> precisely :)
[16:50] <nacc> RHEL4 probably too (even if not really supported)
[16:51] <TJ-> nacc: 1 step on the road to improving server (shameless plug!) is to see bug 1582899 gets attention and the ISO images respun to contain the fix
[16:51] <TJ-> i pinged cyphermox about it earlier but didn't see a reply; cjwatson no longer deals with that; not sure who else other than those two (who have changelog entries)
[16:52] <nacc> TJ-: i'll do what i can to at least make it a release bug
[16:52] <nacc> TJ-: as presumably it's still borken in yakkety and then i'll help sru it
[16:52] <TJ-> nacc: the problem is because we have no reliable commit history I've no way of knowing who, or why, the bug was introduced ... so frustrating
[16:54] <nacc> TJ-: yep
[16:55] <TJ-> Another area that could do with attention is the Secure Boot + OS verification chain. Currently the Ubuntu specific GRUB patches adding certificate verification of kernel images will still load an unsigned vmlinuz image
[16:55] <nacc> ugh
[16:55] <nacc> yeah, i'm glad i've never touched secure boot
[16:55] <nacc> :)
[16:56] <TJ-> I've an interest in the crypto side, am writing code for GRUB mainline to add LUKS keyfile, detached header support, and working on U2F or challenge/response for Yubikey-like devices
[16:57] <nacc> nice!
[16:57] <TJ-> it would be nice to be able to secure the entire chain, starting from Secure Boot through kernel loading, and in addition have PID 1 provide hashes of all packaged executables (from /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.md5sums/shasums) to a (new) kernel module (which I'm designing and wull write) so the kernel can prevent any non-signed code being executed
[16:58] <nacc> that feels like it would have been the goal all along :)
[16:58] <TJ-> there's a big valuable market in secured systems now, both server and laptop
[16:58] <nacc> absolutely
[16:59] <TJ-> if someone would stop introducing bugs faster than I can fix them I might get time to write that code before 2020 :D
[16:59] <nacc> heh
[16:59] <nacc> TJ-: well, i thank you for all the assistance i've seen you provide on IRC and in bugs already
[17:01] <TJ-> that's my choice, a way to keep close to the fundamentals, no thanks required. Although, you could lock some of the Canonical decision makers in the ubuntu support channels for a week until they understand how much quality is suffering
[17:02] <TJ-> I used to make my directors spend 1 week every 4 months doing front line support; has a wonderful effect on quality and customer satisfaction
[17:04] <TJ-> (especially the Sales Director, to ensure he didn't oversell the promises, or undersell our capabilities)
[17:05] <nacc> heh, wish I had that kind of power
[17:05] <nacc> I'll just try to be noisier in meetings :)
[17:12] <TJ-> it's one of the perks of being the 'dictator' :D
[17:12] <nacc> TJ-: yeah :)
[17:21] <TJ-> oh, one thing about the online UDS format... make everything that is used F/OSS, drop the reliance on proprietary stuff that excludes anyone that doesn't use, for example, Google Hangouts
[17:21] <nacc> TJ-: yeah, i've wondered about that
[17:21] <TJ-> that was the stupidest decision ever for a F/OSS dev community
[17:22] <TJ-> gave me the same feeling as the kernel-team event
[17:22] <TJ-> a F/OSS distro company should be boasting and showcasing the open alternatives and dog-fooding them
[17:23] <nacc> agree
[19:03] <Bashing-om> Well, close to that time ( Howdy Doody time ) and here I am. Let's see what we can learn this day .
[19:17] <daftykins> >:)
[19:18] <OerHeks> :-D
[19:18] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Is alive and well ? Keeping all systems in the island ironed out .
[19:19] <pauljw> :)
[19:24] <daftykins> yes sir-ee, today i have glorious news for my subjections to windows 7 reinstalls
[19:24] <daftykins> right now they take a day to update, but yay! https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/windowsitpro/2016/05/17/simplifying-updates-for-windows-7-and-8-1/
[19:29] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Not looked but my solution to updating Windows a lot of years past ....... install ubuntu .
[19:31] <daftykins> ;)
[19:45] <OerHeks> fear of startbuttons, i suffer
[19:48] <Bashing-om> Acutely so when that buttton supposed to do Windows :)
[19:49] <daftykins> fun to be sat in cmd for the first time in ages
[20:05] <EriC^^> evening everyone
[20:09] <Bashing-om>  wb EriC^^ . Looks like a 'testy' time on the channel .
[20:09] <EriC^^> Bashing-om: thank you
[20:11] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Now that Spring is here . gainful employment opportunity arose ?
[20:11] <EriC^^> nah
[20:11] <EriC^^> not looking much my man
[20:13] <pauljw> hi EriC^^
[20:13] <Bashing-om> Peehaps for the best ? I happen to like not puncing someone else's clock :)
[20:13] <EriC^^> hi pauljw :)
[20:13] <pauljw> :)
[20:13] <EriC^^> yeah i dont like to work
[20:13] <EriC^^> i mean to have a 9-5 schedule and also a "boss"
[20:15] <EriC^^> maybe make money on my own somehow or a freelancing job
[20:15] <Bashing-om> Ah but the downside .. no ficial recompense. no can buy that new SSD that is so desired .
[20:18] <Bashing-om> Daughters 37 and 41 think I should continue to support them .. go back to a J O B ... My Heels are scooting !
[20:19] <EriC^^> 37 and 41 O.o
[20:20] <OerHeks> 78 together
[20:21] <EriC^^> wb daftykins
[20:21] <Bashing-om> Re-adjust their priorities .. They are raised and resposible for their own . huh ? Daddy not buying that new car .. when I want a 8 core Athlon system .
[20:22] <EriC^^> haha
[20:22] <daftykins> ty sir!
[20:22] <daftykins> note to self, never experiment from your own server
[20:23] <Bashing-om> daftykins: One of those times when " I think I can " ?
[20:23] <EriC^^> oh
[20:23] <EriC^^> doh
[20:23] <EriC^^> 37 and 41 ages
[20:23] <EriC^^> i thought numbers 37 and 41
[20:24] <Bashing-om> Now I would be prolific .. I do not evsn wish !  .. I do infer ages .... ages !
[20:24] <OerHeks> oh, not shoesize?
[20:24] <OerHeks> oke
[20:24] <EriC^^> lol i thought it was a joke or something
[20:26] <daftykins> nah i'm just integrating this update rollup into a windows 7 install image file, but to do so you have to mount the image first... then i got file locks trying to unmount it, so had to reboot my server
[20:26] <daftykins> and since this IRC client runs on a VM on that host, i had to come back ;)
[20:26] <daftykins> nothing but a learning experience! :)
[20:27] <Bashing-om> wharever does not kill the server .. just makes it stonger .,. yes ?
[20:27] <daftykins> very true! lives to die another day
[20:27] <Bashing-om> LOL
[20:29] <daftykins> cue James Bond theme ;)
[20:29] <daftykins> this is quite cringe, my win7 ISO contains all 4 flavours of win7, i have to apply the updates to _all 4_ to make this image install for each flavour
[20:29] <daftykins> quite a lot of work if i don't ever do any win7 installs again ;)
[20:30] <daftykins> a better person would have scripted this...
[20:33] <Bashing-om> daftykins: 3rd time around .. you will .
[20:36] <daftykins> actually i have begun immediately! buahahaha!
[20:36] <daftykins> "if not today, when?"
[20:37] <Bashing-om> Axiom ; Never do today, what you can put off 'til tomorrow - leaves more time for IRC .
[20:38] <daftykins> haha
[20:38] <daftykins> this is actually my idea of fun
[20:43] <Bashing-om> I relate to what is fun . I have begun the preliminaries to have 16.04 on a SSD .. planning the partitioning I will do this time around .
[20:45] <daftykins> excellent :D
[20:45] <daftykins> then it shall be welcome to the fast lane!
[20:47] <Bashing-om> And on the wish list is that nicer Nvidia Graphic's card .
[20:49] <daftykins> i'm itching for these new ones too so i can upgrade