[02:02] <pauljw> gnite everyone
[02:18] <LambdaComplex> Bashing-om: i can irc today. should i put that off until tomorrow?
[02:19] <daftykins> XD
[02:20] <Bashing-om> LambdaComplex: Ouch ... There is such a thing as sin ... Only you can answer for abstaining from IRC .
[02:21] <Bashing-om> WAIT .. Now how about those hundreds that await the words of wisdom ???
[02:38] <juanmapalad> !ping
[02:43] <nicomachus> !LTS
[02:43] <nicomachus> !xenial
[02:43] <nicomachus> !LTSupgrade
[04:04] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:04] <Bashing-om> o/ lotuspsychje
[04:05] <lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
[04:06] <Bashing-om> Been a good session .
[04:07] <lotuspsychje> great
[04:07] <lotuspsychje> ill start with cuppa tea
[04:11] <Bashing-om> Good way to start the day .
[04:11] <daftykins> \o
[04:11] <daftykins> o/
[04:12] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
[04:12] <daftykins> another day, another local unit of currency :)
[04:12] <lotuspsychje> :p
[04:18] <juanmapalad> hello
[04:18] <Ben64> another stuffed shirt with another white collar
[04:18] <lotuspsychje> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/
[04:18] <daftykins> Ben64: smart look today? :>
[04:19] <Ben64> going off your almost rhyme
[04:19] <lotuspsychje> hi juanmapalad
[04:19] <juanmapalad> sup
[04:20] <daftykins> i keep hearing it's already compromised (TOR)
[04:20] <daftykins> never used it though
[04:20] <lotuspsychje> same here
[04:21] <lotuspsychje> real anonymity is being john doe
[04:21] <lotuspsychje> not hiding with tools
[04:25] <lotuspsychje> http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-steal-25-billion-from-your-bank-with-a-few-clicks/#ftag=RSSbaffb68
[04:26] <lotuspsychje> this what happens when millions of people use the 'easy' banking apps
[04:27] <daftykins> mmm, mine pushes a smartphone app... i can't think of anything more ridiculous
[04:27] <daftykins> especially given how folks don't even secure their phones
[04:29] <lotuspsychje> what is a secure phone? :p
[04:32] <daftykins> certainly isn't one, but those that don't even have a lock screen pattern/PIN/pass
[04:34] <daftykins> not another one :/ http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/may/19/egyptair-plane-cairo-paris-live-updates
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> so weird this
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> do we have bermuda triangles in the sky now?
[04:36] <daftykins> https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ms804/#9c0b766 oy
[04:36] <daftykins> seems so
[04:36] <EriC^^> morning daftykins lotuspsychje
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> hey hey EriC^^
[04:37] <daftykins> heya \o
[04:39] <Bashing-om> OK, guys .. enough is enough .. calling it for this session .
[04:39] <daftykins> aww missed 'im
[04:41] <EriC^^> ps4 or xbox 360
[04:41] <daftykins> those are two different generations :)
[04:42] <EriC^^> oh
[04:42] <EriC^^> what's the new xbox
[04:43] <daftykins> xbox one!
[04:44] <EriC^^> aha
[04:44] <EriC^^> ps4 or xbox one?
[04:45]  * lotuspsychje takes out his comodore 64
[04:45] <daftykins> hehe
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> :p
[04:45] <daftykins> i think which camp you go for depends solely on which you like the games of
[04:45] <EriC^^> oh
[04:46] <EriC^^> i'm more of a nintendo guy
[04:46] <daftykins> those guys have a new console coming too!
[04:46] <EriC^^> i grew up playing golden eye, fox64, mario, stuff like that
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> all consoles had cool games
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> sega aswell
[04:47] <lotuspsychje> some games are real legendary right
[04:47] <EriC^^> nintendo64 had so many
[04:47] <lotuspsychje> mario bros,altered beast,street fighter,pit fighter
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> i like those oldskool luna park games :p
[04:48] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: yesterday i tried putting the 42" in the living room
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> oh?
[04:48] <EriC^^> it wasn't all that bad, you can still pass on both sides
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> great!
[04:48] <EriC^^> yeah i was pretty bummed, i cant stand the 32" i feel like punching it sometimes
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> full screen smplayer working nice?
[04:48] <EriC^^> should have gotten a 40" 1080
[04:49] <daftykins> all the peas! all the inches!
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> i got a 27" HP lcd for my desktop
[04:50] <lotuspsychje> full screen movies does the trick for me
[04:50] <EriC^^> 32" feels like you're watching a micro tv from a distance a little
[04:50] <EriC^^> like you're looking into something
[04:50] <EriC^^> 42" is like in your face watching something
[04:50] <lotuspsychje> depends how far you sit of course
[04:51] <EriC^^> 32" i feel like saying hi little guy how are you doing?
[04:51] <EriC^^> then maybe smack it with a baseball bat and put it out of its misery
[04:51] <EriC^^> lol
[04:51] <daftykins> :)
[04:51] <lotuspsychje> lol
[04:51] <daftykins> d'aww poor little TV, gift it to someone in need :P
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yeah man, sell it again, buy your wish
[04:52] <EriC^^> i really like the plasma though
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> dont you have a second hand website in lebanon?
[04:52] <EriC^^> there is but i dont think it'll sell for much
[04:52] <daftykins> i always found an idle buzz and too high power consumption in plasma
[04:52] <EriC^^> i got it for like $240
[04:52] <daftykins> old tech getting killed off now too
[04:52] <EriC^^> it'll sell maybe $100 i guess
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: screen wash, pût in original box and ask 200
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> how old is it?
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> months?
[04:53] <EriC^^> not worth it really, dunno what to do with it though, for the saloon i want to eventually maybe get a 55" , i can maybe put it on the closed balcony
[04:53] <EriC^^> yeah
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> so there's still 2 years warranty, for someones kitchen
[04:54] <EriC^^> daftykins: yeah it feels hot, yesterday it even made the living room kind of warm
[04:54] <daftykins> hehe
[04:54] <EriC^^> but i love how there's a glass at the front of the screen
[04:54] <daftykins> i've a 55 in my lounge
[04:55] <EriC^^> the 32" feels so cheap and odd
[04:55] <EriC^^> it's like plastic and very matte colored
[04:55] <EriC^^> the plasma feels more like an old fashioned tv somehow, and the picture feels more vibrant and warm at the same time
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> or...get real angry in the store and say you got wrongly informed lol
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> and ask another tv
[04:56] <EriC^^> lol
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> you said 32 was going big!
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> i need a 55!!
[04:56] <EriC^^> if i knew someone who worked there probably could get a sweet deal
[04:57] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: there's a dutch online store with a takeover formula for phones also
[04:57] <EriC^^> 55 is sick
[04:58] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: send back your 'older' smartphone and get a voucher for a new buy
[04:58] <EriC^^> i used a meter to see how big it would be
[04:58] <EriC^^> crazy
[04:58] <EriC^^> daftykins: it is a 55" 1080 samsung?
[04:58] <daftykins> yep, 2012 model
[04:58] <daftykins> UE55ES6800
[04:58] <EriC^^> sweet
[04:59] <lotuspsychje> i got UE8000 40" also from older year (1600$)
[04:59] <lotuspsychje> but the blurays playing flawless
[05:00] <lotuspsychje> with this mediaplayer: http://www.mede8er.eu/en/
[05:00] <lotuspsychje> plays all codecs and formats
[05:01] <lotuspsychje> up to 2TB hd you can place inside
[05:01] <daftykins> i remember the 8000 was the 2013 model with voice control and all the gimmicky stuff
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> i got only 3D and smarttv
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> but the smarttv feels old
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> newer models are faster, better
[05:02] <EriC^^> wow the amount of games exclusive to either ps4 or xbox one are massive
[05:02] <EriC^^> i thought it was just gran turismo for ps4 and a couple games for xbox
[05:03] <EriC^^> ps4 seems to have more exclusive games though
[05:03] <EriC^^> not sure of quality of them though
[05:03] <EriC^^> http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_Games_vs_Xbox_One_Games
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> i never liked xbox myself
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> ps4 or steambox
[05:04] <EriC^^> i only played it once
[05:04] <EriC^^> the new controller i saw looked a little like the sega dreamcast's controller a little also a little nintendo64-ish
[05:05] <EriC^^> i have a good idea
[05:06] <EriC^^> i'll go to the store that has those dvd's i was talking about yesterday
[05:06] <EriC^^> i remember they had a bunch of games too, i think xbox 360
[05:06] <EriC^^> if they have games for xbox one i'll get an xbox one
[05:07] <EriC^^> fuck gran turismo i'll get the gran turismo 6 for the ps3 if i want to play gran turismo style car
[05:07] <lotuspsychje> :p
[05:08] <EriC^^> we should sell games online
[05:08] <EriC^^> buy them from there for $5 or something
[05:08] <EriC^^> then rip them and upload them for a price
[05:08] <EriC^^> or make sketchy international orders
[05:08] <EriC^^> "used games for sale"
[05:09] <EriC^^> make a website for movies
[05:09] <EriC^^> the movienight.ws site got like 1mil for deadpool views
[05:09] <EriC^^> that's $2000-$3000 in ad revenue
[05:10] <lotuspsychje> thats gonna cost you copyrights
[05:10] <EriC^^> probably can put it on a local server here with some corporate line, i'll actually manually rip the dvd's
[05:10] <EriC^^> and nobody would care cause this is lebanon
[05:11] <lotuspsychje> risky idea :p
[05:11] <EriC^^> when i was like 14 i got the sega dreamcast
[05:11] <EriC^^> cause i heard you could rip games for it from online
[05:12] <lotuspsychje> alot of online services want this to happen, that users pay for recent movies/series
[05:12] <EriC^^> after like a dozen failed cd's it finally worked
[05:12] <EriC^^> i started selling them at highschool
[05:12] <EriC^^> made a shit ton of $$
[05:12] <lotuspsychje> lets use the other chan
[05:12] <EriC^^> well not a shit ton, but good for a 14 yr old
[05:19] <lotuspsychje> !info krita
[05:38] <lotuspsychje> bug 1583114
[05:39] <lotuspsychje> still stable for now..
[06:03] <brushdemon> wait, so what happens if the discover gets a response? It still loops?
[06:05] <lotuspsychje> after network-manager restart it just connects and stops looping
[06:05] <brushdemon> oh, I see
[06:10] <brushdemon> lotuspsychje: try setting your ipv6 to link local
[06:10] <lotuspsychje> i did
[06:11] <brushdemon> hmmm
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> now waiting for it to happen again
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> working now
[06:12] <brushdemon> ah I see, you actually get a link-local address assigned then it 'withdraws' it for "reason 'none'"
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> not sure why it does it
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> its not every boot neither
[06:13] <brushdemon> well, layer 1 seems to be fine if you can get it working at all, l2 is probably okay since the driver is working and your NIC seems to work
[06:14] <brushdemon> that's an interesting bug
[06:15] <brushdemon> lotuspsychje: have you tried disabling ipv6 completely?
[06:15] <brushdemon> unless you need to use ipv6 ofc
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> brushdemon: yes, its set to ignore now
[06:16] <daftykins> just the other day i tore out some notes i had on how to disable the ipv6 module, from when it was separate and not in the kernel :)
[06:16] <daftykins> 8.04!
[06:16] <brushdemon> hmmm, I'm honestly more concerned that it doesn't just fail after a few retries
[06:17] <brushdemon> old time :p
[06:17] <brushdemon> 8.04 was my very first clash with anything not windows
[06:17] <brushdemon> I'm not 100% sure on how ubuntu does it but I know that the ipv6 module in the kernel is well... a module
[06:17] <brushdemon> so you can technically blacklist it
[06:18] <brushdemon> I haven't took a look at the .config for the ubuntu kernel in a while
[06:18] <lotuspsychje> this isnt normal behaviour, devs should fix this by default
[06:19] <brushdemon> lotuspsychje: I'm aware, it should fail and not infinitely loop
[06:19] <daftykins> my ISP seems to have no plans to implement v6
[06:20] <Ben64> my isp can't get a patch out to fix ipv6 on my modem
[06:20] <brushdemon> ouch
[06:20] <Ben64> comcast released the patch october 2015
[06:20] <Ben64> :(
[06:23] <daftykins> but you don't want to use it, or?
[06:25] <brushdemon> lotuspsychje: I would honestly go to say that it's the dhcp implementation that's messing up here based on the logs. I'm not a dev though so we can see if I was right or not once they get around to it :)
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> brushdemon: ipv6 ignore fixxed this for now...lets see the next days if it occurs again
[06:26] <brushdemon> well, it's an okay work around
[06:26] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: does your ISP use v6?
[06:27] <daftykins> i tend to fully disable it on my Windows hosts since there's no reason to bother
[06:27] <brushdemon> I wonder if it's possible that it's failing with v6 due to one of v6's auto-allocation methods
[06:27] <daftykins> well you'd think that wouldn't be possible to fail
[06:27] <daftykins> link local v6 should surely just assign an address itself and be done
[06:27] <brushdemon> you also have stuff like slaac
[06:28] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: no
[06:28] <lotuspsychje> dont need ipv6 myself
[06:29] <brushdemon> but you are right, there should be priority with slaac and dhcp on the client side
[06:29] <brushdemon> this really shouldn't be an issue at all
[06:31] <lotuspsychje> true
[06:32] <de-facto> Morning Guys :)
[06:33] <lotuspsychje> hi de-facto
[06:36]  * daftykins stands to attention
[06:38] <de-facto> just found out t-mobile probably is the only mobile ISP in germany which gives you a public ip where you can open ports when you choose the correct APN (internet.t-d1.de) for auth. Also it seems both vodafone and o2 employees are astonishingly incompetent, they dont even know what a IP address is, leave alone NAT or ports :P
[06:38] <lotuspsychje> oO
[06:40] <lotuspsychje> ok breakfast guys
[06:40] <lotuspsychje> have a nice one!
[06:40] <de-facto> enjoy :)
[06:40] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[06:55] <brushdemon> but NAT is extremely old now by tech standards
[06:56] <daftykins> well sure, they are there to sell and let people text and call - they're not network admins
[06:59] <de-facto> they all permit outgoing connections, but usually you get a private ip in their cellular networks (like 10.x.z.z) and are with another ip in the internet (like 80.a.b.c), hence they use NAT in their APNs and you cant open ports (e.g. for reaching the endpoint via ssh or such).
[07:01] <Ben64> my cell phone gives me a real ipv4 and a real ipv6
[07:02] <Ben64> ooh maybe not
[07:02] <Ben64> looks real, but isnt
[07:02] <de-facto> some give you just a private ip behind a nat (O2), some a transparent public IP without NAT (I read vodafone with cda.vodafone.de), but block ports, others give you a public IP and let you open arbitrary ports (like internet.t-d1.de)
[07:02] <de-facto> that is in germany
[07:02] <Ben64> ipv6 is real
[07:02] <Ben64> ipv4 the phone has is 100.x.x.x, but when i go to my server, server sees 70.x.x.x
[07:03] <Ben64> can't traceroute the 100.x, it goes in circles
[07:03] <de-facto> can you reach a service on it (like ssh helper) when you open a port on your phone with that public ip from another computer (like your desktop )?
[07:03] <Ben64> NetName:        SHARED-ADDRESS-SPACE-RFCTBD-IANA-RESERVED
[07:04] <Ben64> ah, it's a small reserved section i didn't know about
[07:04] <Ben64> NetRange:       100.64.0.0 - 100.127.255.255
[07:04] <Ben64> de-facto: if i put it on ipv6 i bet it would work
[07:04] <daftykins> "my ip" in google also handily gives you your internet facing IP
[07:05] <Ben64> i have a server that is easier and lighter than that :D
[07:05] <Ben64> http://ben64.com/ip.php
[07:05] <de-facto> yeah no need for NAT with v6, but still i guess the ISPs dont want you to open ports and such, for whatever reason
[07:05] <daftykins> ah har
[07:06] <daftykins> wonder if there's a non-PHP way
[07:06] <Ben64> whats wrong with php
[07:06] <daftykins> nothing, just in case it's not on a given host is all
[07:08] <de-facto> webrtc with stun server?
[07:08] <Ben64> * Ace0 has quit (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
[07:08] <Ben64> :D
[07:09] <Ben64> warms my heart
[07:11] <daftykins> XD
[07:13] <de-facto> Ben64 http://pastebin.com/TWStyWve  :)
[07:13] <Ben64> ??
[07:14] <Ben64> <?php echo $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']; ?>
[07:14] <daftykins> XD
[07:15] <daftykins> one liner > essay
[07:15] <de-facto> half js with webrtc (to get private ip in wlan/lan), half php to reflect public ip and headers
[07:15] <daftykins> well the former is actually rude
[07:16] <de-facto> also you probably can use nginx with echo module or such if you dont want php
[07:19] <de-facto> daftykins why rude?
[07:20] <daftykins> they call them private IPs for a reason (:
[07:23] <de-facto> yeah, but its just displayed client side, so no leak (well except for the sdp request done in background)
[07:25] <daftykins> i wasn't looking at that code specifically
[08:12] <rilleh> I can't seem to get iTerm2 shell integrations to work in Ubuntu
[08:12] <daftykins> that sounds a bit like a support question
[08:12] <rilleh> You are correct :)
[08:12] <daftykins> ^_^
[08:37] <rilleh> Found out what the cause was: tmux
[10:23] <lotuspsychje> good noon to all
[10:24] <daftykins> \o
[10:24] <daftykins> how'd the dog walking go?
[10:37] <lotuspsychje> i dont have a dog :p
[10:38] <lotuspsychje> i got 4 russian puppies :p
[10:39] <lotuspsychje> hi TJ-
[10:40] <daftykins> :D
[10:40] <daftykins> morning TJ- o/
[10:51] <EriC^^> !iraq
[10:51] <EriC^^> !iran
[10:51] <EriC^^> !euthopia
[10:51] <EriC^^> !ethiopia
[10:52] <EriC^^> !afghanistan
[10:52] <lotuspsychje> bot is down :p
[10:52] <EriC^^> !turkmenistan
[10:52] <EriC^^> nah it's giving me pms
[10:52] <EriC^^> !sudan
[10:52] <EriC^^> !france
[10:52] <EriC^^> !french
[10:52] <EriC^^> i think it has me on ignore now
[10:52] <EriC^^> !info bla
[10:53] <EriC^^> !french
[10:53] <daftykins> pre menstrual strain? sorry to hear that eric
[10:53] <daftykins> feel better! :)
[10:53] <EriC^^> lol
[10:53] <EriC^^> did i typo somewhere
[10:53] <daftykins> nah just teasing pms, PMs
[10:53] <EriC^^> haha
[10:54] <EriC^^> lots of shit go over my head
[10:54] <EriC^^> the linguistic/cultural stuff
[10:54] <daftykins> you do better than i would!
[10:57] <EriC^^> oh man almost done with the spring cleaning
[10:57] <EriC^^> had mcdonalds for lunch, i feel wrecked now
[10:57] <EriC^^> still 2 rooms to clean and maybe the balcony, so many stuff to do
[10:58] <EriC^^> i'm thinking if i can muster enough strength to carry the 42" to the living room again and put san andreas to continue watching it
[10:58] <daftykins> what do you buy from mcds? :) we don't have any fast food places on the island
[10:58] <EriC^^> that thing is heavy as fuck it's unbelievably heavy
[10:58] <EriC^^> i usually get the double cheese burger meal and an oreo icecream thing
[10:59] <EriC^^> sometimes i get a big mac meal, i dont like tomatos in hamburgers and most of the rest all have tomatos basically
[11:00] <daftykins> do they do the gherkin thing over there? little slice as normal on top?
[11:01] <EriC^^> gherkin?
[11:02] <daftykins> pickle?
[11:02] <EriC^^> oh, yeah i love those
[11:02] <daftykins> first time i had one on the larger island near here, i thought wtf? but yeah i quite like it :D nice addition
[11:03] <EriC^^> yeah pickles are great
[11:03] <daftykins> sometimes i go and get a mcdonalds at London Gatwick airport when i pass through, i can do that at the start of June 'cause i'll be going down to Spain again
[11:03] <EriC^^> cool
[11:27] <crocodilehunter> hi there. who would like to discuss the state of ZFS?
[11:29] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[11:30] <crocodilehunter> hi
[11:30] <daftykins> not me!
[11:31] <crocodilehunter> i have spent all day trying to boot ubuntu 16.04 off ZFS root...
[11:31] <daftykins> such storage is better as solely storage, with an OS outside of it
[11:32] <daftykins> easier to fault find from and so on
[11:33] <crocodilehunter> yes. there has definitely been a learning curve..
[11:36] <crocodilehunter> the way people were talking about 16.04, i thought it was going to be an option in ubiquity
[11:36] <crocodilehunter> i'll just have to use it as a seperate storage for LXD...
[11:37] <lotuspsychje> crocodilehunter: talk to ducasse
[11:37] <ducasse> zfs on root is a nightmare right now.
[11:37] <crocodilehunter> what do people on this channel usually discuss? any dev stuff?
[11:37] <lotuspsychje> crocodilehunter: ubuntu stuff
[11:38] <crocodilehunter> is ZFS on the ubuntu roadmap for full integration?
[11:39] <daftykins> i thought the license hassle would prevent that ever being a thing
[11:39] <daftykins> you should move distro if you want that
[11:40] <crocodilehunter> do you think that we would be at a disadvantage not supporting a feature like ZFS?
[11:40] <daftykins> ZFS is niche
[11:40] <OerHeks> crocodilehunter, what guid did you follow?
[11:40] <OerHeks> https://github.com/zfsonlinux/pkg-zfs/wiki/HOWTO-install-Ubuntu-16.04-to-a-Native-ZFS-Root-Filesystem
[11:41] <crocodilehunter> move distros??
[11:43] <crocodilehunter> i tried all the guides including the one linked.. i guess it's not that important to boot of a ZFS /, but I was hoping to learn a repeatable method so i could contribute to documenting it...
[11:43] <daftykins> as i said, run a standard root and make a storage volume ZFS to tinker
[11:46] <crocodilehunter> i wouldn't move distros, i am a stakeholder in ubuntu just like you. what im trying to highlight is that storage is a pretty big component of an OS, and there's no denying that ZFS  is unrivalled when it comes to storage....
[11:47] <crocodilehunter> yes, i guess i will have to.
[11:48] <daftykins> stakeholder sounds like a financial connection :P
[11:48] <BluesKaj> or a serious dependency
[11:48] <daftykins> i think it's only justified based on your specific setup
[11:49] <daftykins> ZFS isn't for everybody
[11:49] <crocodilehunter> not stake doesn't mean financial, i guess 'vested interest' would be a more appropiate term...
[11:50] <daftykins> yeah
[11:50]  * BluesKaj has no desire to fooll with fringe filesystems just because theyre exotic and promise faster speeds etc
[11:51] <ducasse> zfs isn't really 'fringe'.
[11:51] <BluesKaj> to me it is :-)
[11:51] <crocodilehunter> i guess ZFS isnt for everybody, but i just thought withZFS being suggested to be used with LXD, that there would be more official docs...
[11:51] <daftykins> sorry but to claim otherwise you can't be considering home users in that
[11:52] <crocodilehunter> i would rather use zfs for /home than btrfs...
[11:52] <ducasse> crocodilehunter: second that, usage with lxd is poorly documented.
[11:52] <Ben64> i'd rather use ext4
[11:54] <crocodilehunter> considering i dont talk to much people these days i plan to hang out on irc more, and i happen to be an ubuntu user...
[11:54] <lotuspsychje> less hunt the crocodiles :p
[11:55] <BluesKaj> crocodilehunter:  what's so fascinating about zfs, anyway ..just curious
[11:56] <Ben64> it's got a z in it
[11:56] <crocodilehunter> it just happens to be what i've been working on. but i was hoping to learn myself so i could contribute to the docs....
[11:57] <lotuspsychje> !contribute
[11:59] <crocodilehunter> licensing aside, its more about LXD, than ZFS. i think LXD is a killer app that will put ubuntu even further in front....
[11:59] <daftykins> i'm not even aware what that is just by the letters :>
[11:59] <BluesKaj> oh the container thing
[12:00] <crocodilehunter> but like i said, im surprised because alot of the official ubuntu PR mentioned  native ZFS support and i thought there would of been more resources on it...
[12:02] <crocodilehunter> am i on the wrong channel? i want to contribute to ubuntu. is there another channel where they talk about projects and such?
[12:02] <daftykins> !channels
[12:02] <daftykins> hrmm.
[12:03] <daftykins> there's a list of the channels on the website
[12:03] <daftykins> i think the wiki could use some work everywhere :)
[12:03] <crocodilehunter> i'm concurrently on 5 ubuntu channels, but this channel is the only active one....
[12:04] <daftykins> well #ubuntu is the main support one, #ubuntu-server for server support... and so on
[12:04] <crocodilehunter> i want to get involved..
[12:04] <daftykins> those are the more active ones
[12:05] <crocodilehunter> thanks..
[12:06] <crocodilehunter> actually, i used to use centos, i tried to get involved on the forums, but i didnt find them to friendly..
[12:06] <daftykins> no idea on a more specific one though, it's not really the kind of thing i've tried to look for before
[12:07] <crocodilehunter> "i have a dream".... to contribute to linux...
[12:08] <daftykins> if the bot were working there'd be factoids i could trigger
[12:08] <daftykins> not quite sure what's up with that
[12:11] <BluesKaj> crocodilehunter: perhaps #ubuntu-devel might be right for you
[12:12] <crocodilehunter> i was just about to type that in... im a bit apprehensive about bothering them.. oh well, worth a shot
[12:14] <BluesKaj> well, if you want to get wet , the best way is to dive in , if it's too deep you'll find out soon enough :-)
[12:23] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: :p
[12:27] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje:  :-)
[12:30] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[12:30] <daftykins> hey sir o/
[12:31] <pauljw> :)
[12:32] <BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
[12:33] <pauljw> BluesKaj
[13:48] <TJ-> Unity is quickly pissing me off! It has no concept of maintaining user input focus in the correct control
[13:55] <BluesKaj> unityand gnome pissed me off a long time ago :-)
[13:58] <TJ-> I'm only using it because for 16.04 it has the only desktop that can correctly adjust pixel pitch on a high-DPI screen
[14:05] <BluesKaj> oh fancy, afraid my TV/monitor is only 1920x1080 capable, but it still looks quite good
[14:48] <JanC> TJ-: what do you mean with the user input focus?
[15:17] <TJ-> JanC: where a user-initiated action results in either 1) the launched application window being behind the 'current' window (example: using firefox, then go to System icon  > System Settings ... or Bluetooth icon  > Bluetooth settings...) or 2) using Thunderbird + Enigmail, have an encrypted email selected in the mail list, go to the Enigmail menu > Decrypt/Verify, Passphrase dialog opens on-top with
[15:17] <TJ-> highlighted focus in input text box, cursor flashing, but typing goes nowhere until actually interacting with the dialog with the pointer
[15:17] <TJ-> I'd say (1) happens about 75% of the time and (2) 100%
[15:19] <JanC> (1) happens when you click (or somehow otherwise focus) the current window after launching the other application
[15:25] <TJ-> that's what is supposed to happen, but I'm seeing the launched GUI appear in the launcher but behind everything else, without having moved the pointer or 'accidentally' pressed mouse buttons
[15:26] <TJ-> It seems to happen in fits and spurts, as in it will be fine then there'll be a period where it does it constantly, no matter what I launch. The only commonality is the applications are started from the iconic taskbar top-right
[15:29] <de-facto> yeah "fake focus" is quite annoying
[15:30] <de-facto> happens in gnome shell too
[15:30] <TJ-> so likely caused by the underlying Gnome then?
[15:31] <de-facto> good question, idk
[15:32] <TJ-> it's damned annoying when doing decryption and hitting the keys to type the secret passphrase and it goes someplace else; it could accidentally be delivered to chat for example, although I've never seen any process actual consume the typing - that's the other annoying part about it - does it just disappear, or is it being directed to another process
[15:32] <de-facto> it may depend on how you loose focus mabye?
[15:33] <TJ-> with the passphrase every visual indication is the dialog, and its text box, has got focus.. the I-beam cursor is flashing, the border is highlighted orange
[15:34] <de-facto> does it depend on where the real focus acutally sits? like another window or say unity somewhere?
[15:35] <TJ-> I don't think so, as in Thunderbird main window has focus, it's menu is stolen by Unity into the top bar, I click on Enigmail, sub-menu shows, I click on Decrypt/Verify, the passphrase dialog appears
[15:36] <TJ-> the common thread is unity menu/taskbar is involved
[15:36] <de-facto> i dont have thunderbird installed currently, so cant verify that on gnome shell
[15:38] <de-facto> for me it happens on firefox and chromium
[15:39] <de-facto> both arent quite native gtk apps i guess they implement their own way of focus somehow
[15:39] <TJ-> Yes, I've seen it there too but I probably don't have a workflow that provokes it so reliably
[15:39] <TJ-> and debugging GUI event/focus loops is not the easiest of jobs at the best of times so I'm gritting my teether, swearing, and getting on with fixing other bugs :)
[15:40] <de-facto> both move away from being native and implementing more and more their own ways i guess. same might apply to libre office maybe
[15:41] <de-facto> but thats just wild guesses
[15:42] <de-facto> maybe you can script a reliable way to reproduce with xdotool, but that might be overkill
[15:44] <TJ-> once I find time to figure out why the high-DPI scaling isn't working well in XFCE or LXDE I'll switch to one of those.
[15:45] <TJ-> I work at the CLI in tmux mostly, so apart from web access, I can do everything else in a terminal
[15:46] <de-facto> once i got used to gnome shell it became quite convenient for me, plus i like the extensions idea
[15:47] <de-facto> there are even some extensions for tiling support in gnome shell
[15:47] <de-facto> shellshape
[15:48] <TJ-> aha! just found another example! Using firefox and noticed an email notification in the taskbar, click on the mail icon that shows a sub-menu with 2 'folders' listed with new mail... click on one, the Thunderbird icon in the launcher 'wiggles' but doesn't come to the front
[15:50] <de-facto> maybe because the notification is not a "real window"? not sure...
[15:52] <de-facto> https://vimeo.com/25589480
[15:52] <de-facto> "shellshape demo"
[15:53] <de-facto> http://gfxmonk.net/shellshape/
[16:21] <JanC> TJ-: your (2) I didn't address because I don't use Thunderbird, but that _might_ be a Enigmail bug (e.g. setting focus to the dialog instead instead of to the entry box)
[16:22] <JanC> or some other Xul bug
[16:26] <JanC> one possibility is also that some of the focus stealing prevention is too aggressive
[16:43] <lotuspsychje> wb
[16:44] <lotuspsychje> you can smell when im online? telepathy? or i need a shower?
[16:47] <TJ-> JanC: the indicatations for the passphrase dialog is the text-box *has* the focus, as I said. Orange border, I-beam cursor blinking in it
[16:48] <lotuspsychje> bbl pizzatime!!
[16:48] <JanC> right, but that *could* be a/the bug also
[16:49] <JanC> it would be interesting to figure out where the actual focus is  :)
[16:49] <TJ-> Enigmail doesn't have control of *how* the focus point is indicated
[16:49] <JanC> TJ-: it has to some degree
[16:49] <TJ-> yes, I'd rather like to know that too :)
[16:50] <JanC> actually, applications can quite easily pretend to have focus when they don't  ;-)
[16:50] <TJ-> JanC: no, in GUIs you can do component.focus() to tell the toolkit to give it focus, the toolkit paints the indications and draws the input cursor if appropriate. If gnome is doing something else it's very broken
[16:51] <TJ-> I think it's the same issue as (1) but as the passphrase dialog is modal it is forced to be in front of everything else
[16:51] <JanC> TJ-: you can change the theme, you can create your own widgets for whatever reason, etc.
[16:53] <TJ-> it's as if the menu that launches it keeps the input focus. Maybe it captures it and doesn't release it appropriately, or releases too late. I know there are other event timing related issues in Unity so it wouldn't surprise me
[16:54] <JanC> and contrary to what you think, it's not always the toolkit painting that indication (and in case of Xul-based applications, you have something that tries to emulate another toolkit, but sometimes fails to do so :) )
[16:55] <TJ-> the well known Gnome Terminal minimize/maximize bug is due to event timing. I've seen the same thing using non XUL applications. I thought it was me glitching when I was using the System Settings applets just after installation, but I suspect that was the same lost-focus issue
[16:56] <TJ-> damned thing is so hard to capture debug data on, which makes it worse
[16:58] <TJ-> ahhh, and I recall something else that had this focus that isn't brought to the front issue - the on screen keyboard
[17:02] <JanC> there is a GNOME terminal minimize/maximize bug?
[17:04] <TJ-> yes, it is very popular :D
[17:05] <TJ-> I think lotuspsyche and others first told me about it, I had assumed it was normal behaviour
[17:05] <JanC> I've never had any focus issues with it?
[17:05] <JanC> so please explain?  :)
[17:06] <TJ-> no, it's an event timing bug. Start the terminal, change its size to be appreciably smaller than the screen. Maximize it. Now restore it
[17:06] <JanC> hm, never had any issues with that
[17:07] <JanC> which is possible with timing-related bugs, of course
[17:11] <TJ-> bug 1521302
[17:11] <TJ-> there's another bug affecting the greeter where it resizes the greeter unexpectedly
[17:12] <nicomachus> TJ-: had a guy on #ubuntu last night that was completely missing kernel/drivers/hwmon.
[17:13] <TJ-> nicomachus: how did you boot him? :p
[17:13] <nicomachus> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[17:13] <TJ-> bug 1571640
[17:14] <nicomachus> didn't realize until he started looking for cputemp modules and couldn't find the directory they were supposed to be in. but I don't think he ever fixed it
[17:14] <TJ-> nicomachus: had the user done a purge of the kernel packages then?
[17:15] <TJ-> all modules are at /lib/modules/<kernel-version>/
[17:15] <TJ-> linux-image-<version> installs /boot/vmlinuz-<version> and modules to /lib/modules/<version>/
[17:16] <TJ-> so the system was booted and then the running kernel's packages were removed
[17:16] <JanC> TJ-: I wonder where those gnome terminal windows are located on the screen & how big they are for the people who see that...
[17:18] <nicomachus> TJ-: he had upgraded from 14.04 to 16.04. :/
[17:22] <TJ-> JanC: can be anywhere, but always restores to a size a few pixels less than maximum
[17:22] <JanC> TJ-: so based on Marco's explanation, there actually is a bug in gnome-terminal and/or in Gtk3 ?
[17:22] <TJ-> Yes
[17:23] <TJ-> It happens 100% of the time for me; as I said, I assumed it was an annoying but intentional 'feature' since I've not used Unity in years
[17:23] <JanC> I've never seen that bug
[17:23] <JanC> I wonder if some Compiz/Unity settings make it better or worse
[17:24] <TJ-> Did you fresh install or upgrade? Maybe there's an inherited config value that prevents it. Mine was a fresh install from ISO
[17:24] <JanC> this was a fresh install
[17:25] <JanC> although I did move some config back (but no Compiz stuff, I think)
[17:26] <JanC> OTOH, I did change some settings right away...
[17:33] <TJ-> I've not touched anything except setting the Display scaling factor to 1.15 or so, since this thing has a 2560x1440 11" LCD
[17:33] <TJ-> Maybe it would trigger in a guest session?
[18:22] <nacc> sometimes i wish people would realize that doing something outside of a distribution's control implies you are supporting yourself...
[18:23] <OerHeks> -and i don't hear you-
[18:23] <OerHeks> grinn
[18:23] <nacc> :)
[18:24] <TJ-> nacc: I can tell you're new here :D
[18:25] <nacc> it's something i've thought so many times over the years
[18:25] <TJ-> 1/2 or more of support issues are due to that :D
[18:25] <nacc> it's a fool's hope, i know -- but a distribution is just that, a bundle of stuff that is supposed to go together
[18:25] <nacc> TJ-: 100% ack :)
[18:26] <TJ-> hahaha I'm going to print and frame that!
[18:26] <TJ-> "supposed to go together"
[18:29] <nacc> :)
[18:29] <nacc> i think there probably should be nested quotes around both 'supposed' and 'together'
[18:32] <TJ-> or great but tongue-in-cheek emoticon
[18:32] <TJ-> s/but/big/
[18:33] <nacc> heh
[18:33] <OerHeks> step 1 add any ppa from ... wait, http://www.dailyubuntu.com/ domain expired today :-D
[18:34] <TJ-> really?
[18:35] <TJ-> Expiration Date: 19-may-2017
[18:35] <TJ-> someone must have just renewed!
[18:37] <OerHeks> http://i.imgur.com/oYAE0xj.png i still see this
[18:38] <nacc> heh, they got stolen out and now are hax0rd?
[18:38] <TJ-> well the SOAs are still what looks like parking pages: Name Server: DNS3.PARKPAGE.FOUNDATIONAPI.COM
[18:39] <TJ-> there's a grace period after expiry before the domain can be taken over, so I doubt the ownership has changed.
[18:39] <nacc> TJ-: yeah it's weird, got a random bad popup page once, then a domain search page once
[18:39] <TJ-> (speaking as a domain registrar myself its generally 14 days grace or sometimes more, with plenty of reminder emails)
[18:39] <nacc> seems fishy at best
[20:27] <Bashing-om> !ltsupgrade