=== meetingology` is now known as meetingology
flocculantevening all17:37
ochosievening flocculant 18:04
flocculanthi ochosi :)18:05
ochosi!team | anybody here for the meeting? :) we'll start in about 25!20:04
ubottuanybody here for the meeting? :) we'll start in about 25!: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit19320:04
* flocculant was waiting about for utc to catch up :)20:05
flocculanthi pleia2 :)20:06
pleia2hey there flocculant 20:06
* flocculant waits patiently 20:09
knomeochosi, yep20:27
flocculantochosi run off :p20:31
ochositoo late20:31
knomegood plan20:31
ochosi#startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting20:31
meetingologyMeeting started Fri May 20 20:31:59 2016 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.20:31
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick20:31
ochosi!team | alright, let the games begin20:32
ubottualright, let the games begin: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit19320:32
flocculantmmm games20:32
knomewow, the bubblehead from theme park20:32
knometheme hospital20:32
ochosilet's walk through...20:32
ochosi#topic Open Action Items20:33
ochosiare there any?20:33
knomewell, the one there is was cancelled20:33
knomenot enough time20:33
ochosiwhat was it?20:33
knomedkessel's mail about the pi testing20:33
flocculantnot enough time - or not enough people to actually do something about it? 20:34
knomehe said he didn't have enough time to carry out the testing and stuff itself, so no reason to send a mail20:34
knomethere was another mail on the ML about the same thing20:34
ochosilet's move on then...20:34
flocculantread that20:34
knomewhere i replied that if we get enough interested parties...20:34
ochosi#topic Updates and Announcements20:34
ochosiany updates?20:34
flocculantquick one20:35
ochosi#info ochosi has started porting xfce4-clipman-plugin and gaston has ported some other small plugins to gtk320:35
flocculant#info all images currently fail with ubi-console error - though can be installed if ignored20:35
ochosi(we can discuss whether we want to integrate the plugins in the discussion section)20:35
* flocculant has question about ochosi's at some point :)20:35
knome#info knome has been working on a new tracker where all work items are tracked internally (eg. not in LP) - mails will follow when it's ready enough for others to test and evaluate whether we want to use that20:36
flocculant#info tracker now shows (more or less) a daily +/- on whether our image boots at least20:36
ochosi#info ochosi looked at what would be necessary for gtk3.20 support for greybird, and it's basically a rewrite (even though ubuntu doesn't seem to be likely to upgrade gtk3 this cycle as they're still looking for a new larsu, i'd rather get a head-start on this as soon as i can)20:36
flocculant#info unlikely that QA will run IRC sessions unless they get more positivity about them20:37
ochosi - k, that was it from my side20:37
ochosiflocculant: are there still plans for a community-driven jenkins?20:38
flocculantochosi: well20:38
ochosii vaguely remember some automated testing stuff from past months20:38
flocculantdo we have the time in a meeting? 20:38
ochosiflocculant: depends... :)20:38
flocculantafaik - it's still in plan, but I am the eternal ... 20:38
flocculantand nothing happened for us pre LTS so I see no reason why it'd not suddenly happen post LTS20:39
flocculantand also20:39
ochosijust wondering whether at least the downloading and installing the iso part could be automated so that we could get some feedback on whether that part works and you don't have to do that manually20:39
flocculantgiven that just because autotest passed/failed it seemed to make no difference at all to whether *we* could boot or use that image20:40
flocculantseems rather pointless to carry on hoping imo20:40
flocculantI got images to build much earlier20:40
flocculantI zsync locally20:40
knomeand balloons is not working with QA stuff any more20:40
knomethey are looking for a replacement20:40
flocculantI update our tracker status tab20:40
knomegetting help and push from that person would be vital imo20:41
flocculantwhen I see build fail - I check that20:41
flocculantthen rinse repeat20:41
ochosii'll keep this in the back of my mind, but maybe i can think of a way to automatically dl, install and run the ISO and report the results with jenkins20:41
flocculantknome: if you ask me then any replacement is likely to be more *ubuntu* 20:41
ochosimain issue is likely automating the installer20:42
knomeflocculant, likely so20:42
ochosiok, anyway, so not too much hope on that front20:42
ochosigood to have cleared it up still20:42
ochosiany other updates?20:42
ochosior can we move to the discussion part20:42
flocculantochosi: davmor2 gave me a script that grabbed iso and synced it - maybe look into that together ish? 20:42
ochosiflocculant: sure, pastebin it20:43
ochosiso no more updates though?20:43
flocculantochosi: ^^20:43
knomei'm fine20:43
flocculantobviosuly that's ubuntu centric20:43
ochosioh ok20:43
ochosiwell this is just the zsyncing part20:43
ochosii was more thinking about automating the complete install process of ISO20:44
flocculantochosi: I have some kvm commands that work locally 20:44
knomethe download/sync part is the easy one20:44
flocculantknome: well20:44
ochosianyhoo, let's not drag this on too much longer, the discussion needs time20:44
ochosi#topic Discussion20:44
flocculantochosi: perhaps an ACTION20:44
ochosiwhat action?20:45
meetingologyRemoving item from minutes: TOPIC20:45
ochosigo ahead then20:45
flocculanton the auto stuff20:45
ochosi#action ochosi will see whether he can come up with ways to automate the ISO installing with jenkins20:45
meetingologyACTION: ochosi will see whether he can come up with ways to automate the ISO installing with jenkins20:45
ochosi#topic Discussion20:45
ochosi#subtopic Xubuntu Council20:46
ochosiso i guess i posted most of my thoughts on the ML20:46
knomeand me20:47
knomeand flocculant 20:47
knomeso anyone else around? :P20:47
pleia2ML or team email?20:47
flocculantpleia2: both afaik20:47
ochosiwell, some initial discussion was on team mail20:47
pleia2ah yes, knome's thread20:48
ochosibut the proposal was on the ML20:48
knomei think the ML thread has all the information we need to get the discussion here done now20:48
pleia2#link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-May/011167.html20:48
knomei mean, it has the actual proposition based on the discussion with the team20:48
ochosiyeah, so basically i see all my points resolved20:48
ochosii'm good with the proposal as is20:49
pleia2me too20:49
knomeit still needs to be fixed into a XSD section20:49
knomeso some supporting words20:49
knomenot too many20:49
ochosithere are maybe some small details we still need to flesh out (like whether the council can autonomously decide to split the chair), but other than that it's good20:49
flocculantit still needs to be ratified by team20:49
knomeso i'd say voting is next20:50
slickymasterI also favour a three members council proposal20:50
knomeshould we vote on the baseline now (eg. anything that's written on the proposal)20:50
slickymasterI'd say yes knome 20:50
knomeand then when the XSD stuff is written, vote again to approve the details20:50
flocculantknome: I would think so 20:50
slickymastereveryone had time to read now20:50
ochosisounds good to me20:50
ochosiare we enough for a quorum though?20:50
flocculantas long as it goes to M/L for vote20:50
knomeafter that's done, then send the section to community council20:50
ochosior anyway, yeah, the ML20:51
flocculantochosi: don't think so 20:51
knomeyeah, i'd suggest a mailing list (only) vote20:51
ochosiok great20:51
flocculantregardless - I think this should go to M/L 20:51
knomegets archived too20:51
ochosiknome: wanna set up the vote, since it was "your" thread? :)20:51
knome#action knome to initialize voting on the council proposal on devel ML20:51
meetingologyACTION: knome to initialize voting on the council proposal on devel ML20:51
flocculant2 ticks20:51
knome^ there's your answer20:51
flocculantcan we word it so that people can 'ahem' before voting20:52
knomegive them more time to react?20:52
flocculantbecause currently we have 2 or 3 voices in that thread20:52
flocculantand this isn't something like 'let's get rid of gmb' 20:52
knomewell the thread is 1 week old20:52
knomedo we want more?20:52
flocculantwell 20:53
flocculantwe're giving the council 2 to postpone :p20:53
ochosii'd say if the voting results in a discussion we can stop/inhibit the voting20:53
ochosibut maybe starting a vote is a good trigger for getting more feedback20:53
ochosiotherwise the thread might just sit there for another week20:53
flocculantI would say - we're voting - 2 weeks, react to previous thread to stop vote - or something20:53
knomevoting should be 1 week20:54
knomeif we want to give people more time to react, let's postpone the start of voting20:54
flocculantwe have to have some sort of deadline - and ochosi is not XPL in 6 ish weeks20:54
ochosii'd say "if you have serious doubts regarding the proposal either vote against it or ask for postponing the vote and reopening the discussion"20:54
flocculantknome: ok - so do a thread, 1 week, then vote thread20:54
knomei can send a reminder mail to reply to the thread before X if there is anything anybody wants to change, and also note that voting will start on X20:55
knomeochosi, can you #undo20:55
flocculantknome: ack that 20:55
meetingologyRemoving item from minutes: ACTION20:55
knome#action knome to send a reminder mail to reply to the council proposal within a week20:55
meetingologyACTION: knome to send a reminder mail to reply to the council proposal within a week20:55
flocculantI just want this to be done as *right* as the group of us can manage20:55
knome#action knome to initialize voting on the council proposal on devel ML (week from now)20:55
meetingologyACTION: knome to initialize voting on the council proposal on devel ML (week from now)20:55
ochosiok, sounds good to me20:56
knomeso another thing that kind of overlaps with this20:56
flocculantknome: thanks 20:56
ochosieverybody fine with this so we can move on to the next subtopic?20:56
flocculantI am20:56
knomehow do we deal with people who have appeared to be more or less inactive in the team for an extended period - namely, jackson and micah20:56
flocculantknome: I would say that the 6 month ish thing should affect that20:57
knomei think it's fair for the future of the project and others involved that inactive members do not affect the council election at least20:57
knomeunless they (plan to) become active again20:57
slickymasterthe strategy document states that if anyone is away for more than a cycle he/she gets removed from team20:57
pleia2but first step for anything here should be reaching out to them to talk about their involvement20:58
ochosislickymaster: yeah, in practice we didnt execute it that strict (as i implied on the ML), i usually got in contact with team members and discussed before removing anyone20:58
knome"nyone with no contributions for more than a complete cycle (6 months) should deactivate themself from the team as well as all subteams and reapply if/when they are willing to rejoin. The team administrators should purge people with no contributions in more than 6 months from the teams occasionally."20:58
slickymasterwhich is fair ochosi 20:58
flocculantpleia2: how much more reaching out - the discussion has been on either team mail or -devel20:58
knomeyeah, i kind of agree with flocculant 20:58
pleia2flocculant: a direct friendly email20:59
ochosii mean i can send out one last email20:59
ochosiit doesn't hurt too much20:59
knomeochosi, since you are the incumbent XPL, i'd appreciate if you did that20:59
ochosibut knome's point is different i guess, cause it would imply that even if they plan to contribute again they would not be able to vote20:59
flocculantso 21:00
knomeochosi, well there are two things i'm after:21:00
ochosiknome: yeah sure, if we reach the conclusion that this is what we wanna do, i'm gonna send the mail21:00
flocculanthow about ochosi do final mail, THEN we start the ACTION's ? 21:00
flocculant3 weeks21:00
knomeochosi, if they plan to be active again, then they can be nominated or nominate themself21:00
knomeochosi, whether they get elected is a different thing21:00
knomeochosi, and the other thing is that if you suddenly start being active before the vote, sure you can vote21:00
ochosiflocculant: no, i wouldn't postpone the vote tbh21:00
knomeflocculant, my first mail and ochosi's mails can happen paralllel21:01
flocculantjust being soft :p21:01
* flocculant is happy with that21:01
knomeochosi, so as long as you send the mails today or tomorrow, they have a week to react to your mail and at the same time, my mail21:01
ochosiproposal: i send out an email to micah and jackson asking them whether they plan to continue being part of the team and contributing since we're about to have this important vote and if not i would kindly ask them to lay down their membership and abstain from voting21:01
knomeochosi, and we can either keep them or dump them just before the vote21:02
knomewell no need to mention abstain from voting - that's implied with "leave the team"21:02
knomeand i don't want to leave the impression they can stay in the team if they simply abstain from the voting :P 21:02
ochosipleia2, Unit193: thoughts?21:02
flocculantslickymaster: ^^21:02
pleia2ochosi: that's fine21:03
slickymasterthe best plan in my pov is ochosi mail them tomorrow and give them one week to decide until knome's mail21:04
knomeochosi, i'll make sure i don't send the vote email before at least 2 weeks (literally by the minute) has passed since the first mail21:04
knomeslickymaster, i'm going to send two mails21:04
knomeslickymaster, the first one is a reminder to take part in the discussion; the other is "voting starts now"21:04
flocculantslickymaster: not sure I'd agree *assuming* knome and ochosi mail in parallel21:04
slickymasterI was referring to your first mail, knome 21:04
flocculantnothing here is actually new21:05
slickymasterno it isn't21:05
knomeslickymaster, why would they need one week to think whether they want to comment on something?21:05
knomeslickymaster, as far as i'm concerned, they can comment and give feedback on the thread *ALREADY*21:05
slickymasterI don't see it as a decision period knome 21:06
slickymastermore like a gracefull one21:06
knomeyeah, but they aren't declined any action21:06
knomeuntil one week21:06
knomeso they will have one week of decision period21:06
flocculantsame as the rest of us21:06
knomenote that the thread has been going on for one week21:07
slickymasterI know21:07
flocculantthe original team one almost 4 weeks21:07
knomeif they haven't seen it at all, then i don't think it's likely they will suddenly want to contribute21:07
* slickymaster hasn't provided any input in that thread also21:07
knomeif they have seen it, but ignored it, they have got their thinking time21:07
slickymasterbut will do this weekend21:07
knomeslickymaster, ultimately, we can't babysit everybody, so that's your loss ;)21:07
flocculantslickymaster: but if you had major issues - would you still have not replied? 21:08
flocculantassuming you read them 21:08
slickymasterI'd have flocculant 21:08
slickymasterwas going to do it this weekend anyway21:08
knomei think enough of us agree that we (me and ochosi) can send the first mails in parallel21:08
slickymasters/anyway/either way21:08
flocculantknome: ack21:08
knomeif either of them needs more thinking time, they can respond to ochosi saying they'd want to postpone the voting21:09
knomewhich i think is very unlikely21:09
ochosiyup, i think that's ok21:09
knomewe're flexible - we'll bend but not break21:09
slickymaster* wfm21:09
knomeochosi, so just make sure your mail gets out before Sat 22:58 UTC21:09
knomeochosi, you have about 26 hours21:10
ochosi#action ochosi to send mail to micah and jackson about their membership and the upcoming council vote21:10
meetingologyACTION: ochosi to send mail to micah and jackson about their membership and the upcoming council vote21:10
pleia2thanks ochosi 21:10
ochosilet's move on?21:10
ochosipleia2: np :)21:10
knomeyeah, move on21:10
ochosi#subtopic User Team Lead21:10
flocculantso basically this is something I wanted to bring up - and is likely to take some time to sort out if we want to21:12
flocculantbut to start with, given we say we're a Community flavour21:12
flocculantperhaps with the advent of Council we should spend some time thinking about a Team position for a User 'representative'21:13
flocculantI've no real concrete proof this would help21:13
knomeone question i have (which i haven't brought up yet) is that how much would the tasks the lead would take overlap with the tasks of the marketing lead?21:13
flocculantany concrete idea about how to do this21:13
flocculantknome: no21:14
flocculantso my initial thinking is 21:14
pleia2I think a good first step would be noting out what we already do to interact with the community21:14
flocculantonce we have some 'rules' 21:14
pleia2we have a user mailing list, #xubuntu, and I interact with people a lot on social media (though not as much as I'd like, because I am spread thin)21:14
knomei guess one of the main points (which i have also pointed out in the ML) is that the community representative would bring up the voice of the community21:14
flocculantwould be to let the whole of the LP user team vote on them21:14
flocculantknome: yes21:14
knomebut what are the actionable items from that21:15
knomeor is it just floating everywhere and repeating what people say about xubuntu21:15
flocculantI'm happy to spend some time working on this - assuming that we will actually do something positive at the end21:15
flocculantknome: well 21:15
flocculantI don't know21:15
knomeone task that would overlap with the marketing lead at least is filling the "in press" page21:16
flocculantit's rather nebulous 21:16
pleia2yeah, I feel like I do a lot of this already21:16
flocculantpleia2: ok 21:16
knomebecause the things we link from there kind of is the content that lead would be looking after21:16
pleia2but I'm happy to clarify exactly what I do in an etherpad21:16
pleia2and where I need help :)21:16
flocculantso if I was the community 'rep' I would be jumping up and down on the intel/suspend issue 21:16
knomepleia2, would you be fine to clarify that in a docbook format at some point (potentially)21:17
flocculantthere's no 'communal voice'21:17
flocculantjust disaprate groups saying things21:17
knomeanother question is:21:17
ochosiflocculant: to what end would you jump up and down on that?21:17
pleia2I do try to speak up when issues come up and I've seen people talking about it on social media21:17
knomewould there be something that we are missing currently that the user lead would find out byt their actions?21:17
pleia2but again, could use help keeping an eye on this21:18
Unit193As far as "Community flavor", that means *we're* the community, the Xubuntu team. :P21:18
knomeif something affects many people, it'll show up on places like #xubuntu and the social media21:18
knomebut so far, nothing we didn't already know has been "trending" anywhere21:18
flocculantUnit193: yes - but Xubuntu Users is part of that surely21:18
knomeso it leads me to ask whether there is anything else to "find"21:18
flocculantwho knows - do we ask? 21:19
knomewe don't21:19
flocculantfor instance21:19
knomeand don't get me wrong - i'm not saying i'm against the idea21:19
flocculanttake the wallpaper for xenial21:19
ochosi(just a sidenote, i really have to take off at 23:30 local time, which is in about 10mins, if you want to continue the meeting i can hand over the chair to someone else ofc)21:19
flocculantochosi: let's shuffle this on to m/l and move on21:20
knomeochosi, you can #chair me if you want21:20
flocculantbecause the 5 of us will go in circles21:20
ochosi#chair ochosi knome21:20
meetingologyCurrent chairs: knome ochosi21:20
knomeor we can continue after the other discussion points21:20
pleia2flocculant: I am interested in where you feel there are concerns here21:20
knomebecause irc != ML21:20
flocculantshuffle my last 2 forward while ochosi is here21:20
ochosiso thunar and cursor bug?21:21
flocculantthe first will be quick :)21:21
ochosiand skip the wiki part?21:21
knomeyeah, can skip wiki21:21
ochosi#subtopic Thunar21:21
flocculantcurrently my problem is a carry on - but we're 2 months or so from .1 for 14.04 upgrades21:22
flocculantwe've got some patches - we still have bugs21:22
flocculantwill the pacthed thunar SRU to 16.04.1?21:22
ochosidoes thunar have the same crashes in 14.04 that it has in 16.04?21:22
flocculantochosi: don't believe so - they are more recent than that21:22
ochosiyeah, what i thought21:23
ochosijust wanted to make sure to not misunderstand your reference21:23
flocculantthe bigger question here though is if Thunar is not actively maintained we really need to seriously think about it's inclusion21:23
ochosiso the question would actually go to bluesabre (and Unit193?) - afaik they were looking at packaging another patch for thunar21:23
knomedo we have a patched thunar that fixes the issues?21:23
ochosiknome: not completely21:24
ochosii think it makes it less bad21:24
flocculantochosi: I know you don't like the idea - neither do I - but I don't much like what we have either :)21:24
knomecan we start with that for .1?21:24
flocculantknome: I can still crash thunar more at less at will 21:24
ochosiknome: yeah, i think that's the plan21:24
knomeflocculant, that's not my problem, my problem is that it'll crash without my will21:24
knomewhat kind of resources could we gather for finding a patch that fixes the crashes completely?21:25
* flocculant has the position that if maintenance is 'slow' then we should look to replacing it21:25
knomedo we know if it's thunar or glib or their combination?21:25
ochosiit's changes in glib afaik21:25
* flocculant also is completely aware that he can't help :(21:25
ochosii talked to hjudt about it when i met him some weeks ago21:25
flocculantochosi: ack - that's my understanding21:26
knomeochosi, can you lock him in a basement?21:26
ochosigenerally speaking i'm against dropping thunar for two reasons: 1) we're replacing a core xfce/desktop component, which makes us less xfce and 2) we give less incentive to (actual and potential) thunar devs to fix the issue21:26
flocculantI don't know that we need to take up more time tonight - I just wanted 'team' to be up to date21:26
ochosiknome: i dont think so21:26
knomeyep, i'm leaning to ochosi's side21:26
knomeand also, the replacement should be really good..21:27
flocculantochosi: I understand that - but if people start *shrugging* and moving on - what have we accomplished? 21:27
ochosiflocculant: ok if it was just an update does that mean we move to the cursor bug for the last 2mins? :)21:27
flocculantochosi: yep :D21:27
ochosiwell we have to motivate someone to dig into thunar21:28
flocculantyea 21:28
ochosithat's basically it21:28
ochosianyway, let's move on21:28
ochosi#subtopic Cursor bug21:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]21:28
knomei think i've hit that21:28
ochosiyeah, that one is annoying and i've been seeing it too21:28
knomeand for me, moving the cursor in light-locker before logging in is a workaround21:28
ochosinot much fun, thanks intel!21:28
flocculanthas the debbug as fix released, freedesktop as confirmed21:28
flocculantheat is 72221:28
knomeso, a fix is landing for .1?21:29
flocculantanyone suspending with intel will hit it21:29
knomei don't suspend21:29
knomebut i guess the fix is a fix for both situations21:29
flocculantI don't know - don't understand the relationships - which is why I wanted to bring it up21:29
ochosiwhat relationship?21:29
flocculantknome: actually /s/suspend/lock I think21:29
knomeflocculant, ...i don't lock21:29
knomei just log in21:30
flocculantochosi: between this upstream issues and getting it down here? 21:30
flocculantlike an update to the packages - so at least we can test it 21:30
flocculantanother I understand ... 21:30
ochosii guess our debian liaison can explain that :)21:31
flocculantthat it's not *us* but we are out there :D21:31
ochosiUnit193: ^21:31
flocculantknome: then I don't know - and you're completely different than all the other reports 21:31
flocculantunsurprisingly :p21:31
knomei'm always very different21:31
ochosiwell as far as i can tell there's not too much we can actually do as the intel driver is not under our control, we can only forward and highlight the issue to ubuntu devs21:32
Unit193ochosi: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=815135#3021:32
ochosior to someone who can package the changes/fixes for ubuntu so we can test21:32
ubottuDebian bug 815135 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "No cursor displayed" [Normal,Open]21:32
knomeochosi, like Unit193?21:32
flocculantochosi: yep - I know that, I just wanted to be bring these things up in meeting - being the one who feels the blame/heat :)21:32
flocculantI can at least test it if we can get something I can install somehow21:33
aaronraimistI would also love to test this!21:33
ochosianyway, i gotta run21:33
Unit193ochosi: So in regards to your idea of GTK3 Xfce in Yakkety, what were you thinking here?  Surely we don't want to be shipping git snapshots of random (not main) git repos.21:33
flocculantochosi: thanks :)21:33
ochosifeel free to work through the other issues without me21:34
knome#subtopic Back to User Team Lead21:34
ochosiUnit193: i was thinking: wait for gaston and others to release the plugins and then include them21:34
ochosiUnit193: no snapshots21:34
knomewhere were we21:34
Unit193Yeah I certainly don't want snapshots.21:34
slickymasterI have to go also21:34
flocculantaaronraimist: if we get something to test - it'll end up shouted out on the dev list and social media21:34
slickymasterlittle one hasn't eat yet and it's way past dinner time21:34
knomeflocculant, you we're starting a wallpaper example 21:34
flocculantoh yea21:35
Unit193ochosi: I have a tiny tracking page on some of that, want me to move it to the Xubuntu wiki so you can update it too?21:35
ochosiUnit193: yeah pls!21:35
ochosiok, gotta go now, have a good one21:35
* flocculant is interested in that stuff too21:35
knomethanks ochosi, ttyl21:35
ochosiknome: can you also put up the minutes?21:35
flocculantcya ochosi 21:35
knomeochosi, sure21:35
ochosiok, thanks everyone and catchy'all later21:35
ochosiknome: ty21:35
flocculantknome: ok so back to user lead thing and wallpaper example21:36
flocculantso we did that21:36
flocculantamongst the 12 of us21:36
flocculantwe should have done that much earlier and included the community - likely wouldn't have made much difference - but, it would have included them21:37
flocculantand saying21:37
flocculant'they could have had submissions' 21:37
flocculantis not the same thing21:37
knomehow would the user team lead have changed the situation?21:38
flocculanta User Team Lead would likely have been more proactive at putting that side21:38
knomeyeah, but the schedule was what it was21:38
flocculantsimply because 'job'21:38
flocculantthen the schedule fails21:38
knomewe've acknowledged that and are preparing to involve the community the next time21:38
flocculantyes I know that :)21:38
flocculantI'm just putting forward the idea that we'd not lose by having a User Team Lead 21:39
knomei'm playing the opposition and asking: what do we gain by having one?21:39
knomeand realistically, who would be up for that?21:39
flocculantthey'd be 1/14th of team - but it's a positive inclusion of the people we aim to please21:39
pleia2that's an example we know about and have already made efforts to improve in the future, do you have other concerns?21:40
flocculantoh sigh21:40
flocculantit's not about concerns :)21:40
pleia2sorry, I'm just trying to square this role with what I'm already trying to do in my marketing role21:40
flocculantit's about Xubuntu being more :)21:40
flocculantpleia2: marketing is something else entirely different - unless we have some different definition of marketing :)21:41
pleia2flocculant: apparently we do21:41
knomeflocculant, what she's saying is that she's working on the tasks that have been brought up already21:41
pleia2for example, I do a lot of this kind of thing: https://twitter.com/ManishChaks/status/72453140005407129621:41
flocculantmarketing is NOT the guy next door who has no voice21:41
knome- whether it's pure marketing or not21:41
pleia2also on facebook, g+21:41
pleia2I'd love to do more, since people talk about xubuntu a lot more than I can reply to21:42
flocculantpleia2: yes I see some of those things - not twitter though21:42
pleia2so I'm wondering, would a user team be responsible for keeping an eye on this and responding too? or just be more active in bringing things to the attention of the dev team? or..?21:43
flocculantpleia2: perhaps both? 21:44
flocculantI don't know :)21:44
flocculantI'm just not willing to spend time looking into it if all that's going to happen is a handful of *shrug* :)21:45
pleia2shall I create an etherpad where we start drafting "what we do now" and "what you want to see" ideas?21:45
knomeis there anything else apart from what has been raised up that the user team lead would do?21:45
flocculantpleia2: works for me 21:45
knomepleia2, ++21:45
pleia2ok, will do momentarily21:45
knomeplease action unless you do it right now, in that case #link21:45
flocculantknome: not a clue until it starts getting written down :)21:46
pleia2will link, sec21:46
pleia2#link http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-team-proposal21:46
* flocculant has just been be *thinking* 21:46
flocculantcya knome ?21:46
flocculantbest chair someone else before you go :)21:47
knomei was just thanking pleia2 :D21:47
knomedo want to talk about the wiki?21:47
knomeor in other words, was there anything else except an update on the situation?21:48
flocculantI think that's dealt with isn't it? 21:48
flocculantother than update 21:48
knomelet's skip it21:48
knomeand do next time if needed21:48
knome#topic Schedule next meeting21:48
* flocculant shuts eyes21:49
knome#info Debian Liaison Unit193 to schedule next meeting21:49
meetingologyMeeting ended Fri May 20 21:49:21 2016 UTC.  21:49
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-05-20-20.31.moin.txt21:49
flocculantshutting eyes works :p21:49
flocculantthanks all 21:49
knomei will put the minutes up later21:49
knomeflocculant, two more people between you and Unit193 :P21:49
flocculantat this rate I can do meeting in Zachary Zebuu21:50
Unit193ochosi,flocculant: http://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/gtk3 is the wikiified page of my doc. :P21:51
flocculantUnit193: thanks21:54
flocculantUnit193: you might be able to help me, grabbed the clipman from git, built it, installed it21:55
flocculantbut if I add clipman to panel I get the normal one it seems21:56
flocculantwhat did I do wrong :p21:56
Unit193Mhmm, the panel is looking in the system installed location, not /usr/local/ (IIRC)21:56
Unit193gtk+3.0 3.20.5-1 uploaded to Debian.22:43
Unit193flocculant: Oh, I kind of dropped that.  I could likely add it to the wiki and also package it up.22:44
flocculantUnit193: I'd be happy enough to add *the whole shebang* locally ofc22:45
Unit193flocculant: Because I'm mildly lazy, can you cd to the git dir, make sure it's up to date and clean, then   make distcheck and give me the tarball? :P22:45
flocculantha ha ha 22:46
flocculantwhat? 22:46
flocculantI can do those things - but how :p22:47
Unit193Whereever you cloned the git repo to, just go in there, `git pull`, `git clean -fd`, and then  `./autogen.sh && make distcheck` ?22:48
flocculantwhat's the backtick for? 22:49
flocculantcos it just > on me ... 22:49
knomeit's just a quote22:49
knomedon't type them :P22:49
flocculantnvm only had the end one22:49
flocculantmeh error22:50
flocculanthow come it built for me - or is this something else ?22:51
flocculant../../../tests/test_targets.c:34:66: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ‘GtkSelectionData {aka struct _GtkSelectionData}’22:52
Unit193You didn't run tests.22:52
flocculantheh heh22:53
flocculant[23:45:51] <Unit193> flocculant: Because I'm mildly lazy, can you cd to the git dir, make sure it's up to date and clean, then   make distcheck and give me the tarball? :P22:53
flocculant[23:48:13] <Unit193> Whereever you cloned the git repo to, just go in there, `git pull`, `git clean -fd`, and then  `./autogen.sh && make distcheck` ?22:53
Unit193flocculant: Where's the git repo?23:07
flocculantUnit193: oh good lord :P - ochosi, bluesabre and you were talking about it the other night 23:10
flocculantdid I grab the wring thing? 23:10
Unit193Not sure I was actually talking about clipman at any point. :D23:13
flocculantaah - you didn't bluesabre and ochosi :)23:14
Unit193flocculant: FWIW, I actually tried and yeah distcheck fails for certain.23:44
flocculantoh good :)23:44
flocculantnot me then \o/23:44

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