[02:58] <mappps> mm what show to tart
[03:45] <daftykins> find something better to do with your time :P
[05:41] <knightwise> hey everyone
[05:42] <daftykins> \o
[05:52] <knightwise> hey dude :)
[05:52] <knightwise> hows it hangin
[05:52] <daftykins> all good here ta, and you? just been dreaming of the new graphics cards ;) http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Components/cat/Graphics-Cards-Nvidia/subcat/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1080
[05:53] <knightwise> :) i'm at the other end of the spectrum trying to get my machine to play classic arcade games
[05:56] <daftykins> hehe
[08:14] <directhex> all discussion of the new geforce must be accompanied by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ12rCD-Dkk
[08:21] <daftykins> =]
[08:25] <zmoylan-pi> games have come a long way... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAlhsAt1u1w
[08:36] <daftykins> that's some funny snowboarding :D
[08:47] <zmoylan-pi> horace goes skiing it is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0bctXFnw-Y
[08:48] <daftykins> zomg i had a Horace game on my Psion s3c! :D
[08:49] <daftykins> LOL ambulance fee $10!
[08:51] <directhex> i had hungry horace for dragon 32
[09:12] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:28] <daftykins> o/
[09:31] <brobostigon> o/
[09:39] <popey> o/
[09:50] <daftykins> ah sometimes i find myself wishing a task that's 'easy' under Linux could be so under Windows too :P
[09:51] <daftykins> xbox one game storage drives can be mounted under Linux with -o loop,offset=2048 - no idea in Windows :D
[09:51] <zmoylan-pi> when bash is more established on windows... :-)
[09:51] <daftykins> naw i think this one'd be too low level
[09:52] <zmoylan-pi> you could have a rasp pi beside your windows pc to do the hard/complicated stuff... :-)
[09:52] <daftykins> nah i need USB 3.0 to copy the content at speed, sometimes a game would be 60GB on there
[09:52] <daftykins> i just reboot my desktop into a live session :>
[09:53] <zmoylan-pi> so... not sending the file via ir... :-P
[09:53] <daftykins> XD
[09:53] <daftykins> i should do a bogroll post about this actually, doesn't seem to be common knowledge online
[09:54] <zmoylan-pi> i do remember once sending a few mp3s via ir to... ironically save time finding a cable and configuring a link... :-)
[09:55] <daftykins> haha, i've just pulled some hair out the times i've tried to go near, say, bluetooth
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> bt is a bit of a disaster. the having to authenticate while /right/ really slows things down
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> ir was just point and beam
[09:57] <zmoylan-pi> i find it quicker to generate a qr code and decode it on the mobile device with the camera than bt stuff across
[09:59] <daftykins> what kinds of things would that be?
[09:59] <zmoylan-pi> sending a wifi wep code, a few k of text the usual
[10:00] <daftykins> ah yeah
[10:00] <daftykins> must say i've thought of that method before but can't think there'd be an efficient way to get going on QR codes from Windows ;D
[10:01] <zmoylan-pi> a few web extensions for browsers for generating qr codes from text do the job for me
[10:01] <daftykins> ah that'd work
[10:01] <zmoylan-pi> tired of giant phones... :-P https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjDUENCXIAAKvOd.jpg:large
[10:02] <daftykins> i find this funny... i booted up 16.04 beta (outdated flash drive) on the macbook i have earlier... the touchpad works now compared to 14.04! :) thing got abandoned by Apple, but i may still sell it
[10:05] <daftykins> well it did work, just not with a finger tip :) oddest thing i've ever seen with a touchpad! required a full thumb segment to move the pointer
[10:07] <daftykins> reminds me, must update some of my flash drives
[10:08] <zmoylan-pi> i have seen that sort of before were an android phone ignored touch from fingers but when i tried a stylus it was ok with it.
[10:08] <daftykins> hrmm
[10:09] <zmoylan-pi> used the stylus to reset phone and then it recognised fingers again...
[10:10] <daftykins> any ideas on if it was an older model that was resistive vs. capacitive?
[10:10] <zmoylan-pi> cheap android phone from last year iirc
[10:12] <daftykins> hrmm
[10:12] <daftykins> i am greatly disappointed in the situation we have with phones, i've got maybe 6 lying around here that are old outdated models that are essentially useless from the perspective of being safe to use online
[10:13] <zmoylan-pi> use opera mini as the browser and it eliminates some of that risk?
[10:13] <zmoylan-pi> even if it's an acquired taste
[10:14] <daftykins> well, the things are even at risk from a malicious MMS now... granted you can often turn off auto download of them, but eh
[10:14] <zmoylan-pi> yeah, you'd have to kill the mms service by removing the connection details
[10:15] <zmoylan-pi> but do you often receive mms these days?
[10:16] <zmoylan-pi> one of the things i *LOVE* about my crappy nokia is that it _doesn't_ do emojii :-)
[10:16] <daftykins> :D yep, pretty much never - and when i do, i get a standard text linking me to a telco site with a PIN code to enter to see them
[10:17] <zmoylan-pi> when my nephew was born my brother sent everyone in his phonebook mms to first pic when mms and cameraphones were new and shiny. only 3 people managed to get the pic. vodafone made it so awkward
[10:18] <daftykins> XD
[10:18] <daftykins> here's something i find odd about ubuntu as a foreign observer... going to look at nearby wireless networks in a live session, my own is _always_ without fail off the end of the list under 'more'
[10:19] <daftykins> you'd think the strongest signal ones would be sorted to the top...
[10:19] <directhex> sorting lists? sounds hard
[10:19] <daftykins> :)
[10:19] <zmoylan-pi> you'd think is an assumption
[10:19] <zmoylan-pi> sorting lists _is_ hard as no matter what sort you chose will annoy someone
[10:19] <popey> there's a bug about that which I filed
[10:20] <popey> i got mail about it this weekend
[10:20] <daftykins> o rry
[10:20] <popey> the network list is alphabetically sorted
[10:20] <daftykins> *nod*
[10:20] <popey> well, it is to some degree anyway :)
[10:20] <popey> bug 366780
[10:20] <lubotu3`> bug 366780 in Network Manager Applet "Please provide a mechanism whereby Wi-Fi networks can be prioritized" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/366780
[10:21] <popey> only 7 years
[10:21] <daftykins> i shall refrain from cheeky comment ;D
[10:21] <daftykins> though i think the Guernsey getting the US keyboard layout one took a bit longer than that to sort...
[10:22] <mh> network list is alphabetically sorted rather than sorted by signal strength? never knew that
[10:22] <daftykins> mm, my network is far down the alphabet so without fail it's never seen on the NM menu
[10:23] <daftykins> well y'know, the initial one
[10:25] <mh> now i come to think of it, it's the same on os x here too
[10:25] <mh> i dont understand the logic :o
[10:26] <daftykins> mmm, i've seen that on macs too... shocking usability thing imo
[10:28] <mh> yeah i've never noticed that because everyone around here has a "SKYxxxx" router or a "TNCAPxxx" one, and coincidentally they sort the same alphabetically as they do by signal :P
[10:28] <daftykins> aww yis got a manual samba mount right first time \o/
[10:28] <popey> on osx you can drag/drop networks in the list
[10:31] <daftykins> can't think when that'd ever be useful
[10:31] <popey> if you move around between a bunch of places which have a ton of networks it is
[10:31] <popey> especially in a city
[10:31] <popey> as the list is truncated
[10:31] <daftykins> ah so it remembers the ordering preference for given locations?
[10:31] <popey> no
[10:32] <popey> but specific networks you prioritise will appear at the top when they're nearby
[10:32] <popey> e.g. if you're in a cafe and the starbucks network appears (or btcloud or whatever), you can push that to the top
[10:32] <daftykins> hmm, my thought there would be that surely once you've been somewhere once and connected to it, it'd be remembered most likely anyway
[10:32] <popey> so whenever you're near a starbucks you'll see that over the top of all the other non-useful networks
[10:33] <daftykins> mmm public less so i guess
[10:33] <daftykins> yeah
[10:34] <popey> looking at the source for nm-applet, it doesn't look hard to implement, wonder why they havent
[10:34] <daftykins> pretty clear signal variable and so on?
[10:34] <daftykins> mercy me gigabit LAN can feel so slow these days :P
[10:35] <daftykins> heh got that screen blinking effect with 16.04 desktop booted on my skylake Dell XPS 13 9350
[10:36] <daftykins> ah did it 3 or 4 times then se... nope didn't settle
[11:40] <Kkr> anyone
[11:41] <popey> anyone what?
[11:41] <Kkr> what is this group for
[11:42] <Kkr> like i wanted to know
[11:42] <Kkr> ubunto
[11:42] <Kkr> i hav heard a lot
[11:43] <popey> Kkr: this is a channel for discussing Ubuntu
[11:43] <popey> Mostly UK based people in here, but some from other parts of the world.
[11:43] <Kkr> yup
[11:43] <Kkr> Wait
[11:43] <Kkr> let me pm u
[11:49] <daftykins> might be better if you kept the chat in here :)
[12:33] <daftykins> penguin42: o/
[12:34] <penguin42> hey daftykins
[12:35] <daftykins> how's your Sunday going? :)
[12:35] <penguin42> well, I've had breakfast...
[12:36] <Kkr> mine is boring
[12:36] <daftykins> sounds like a good start :D
[12:37] <penguin42> yeh I guess I should get dressed, it's going on for 2pm
[12:37] <daftykins> it's leet o'clock
[12:44] <Switches> Afternoon all
[12:49] <penguin42> morning
[12:51] <Switches> lol https://twitter.com/AniqahC/status/733287462152343553/photo/1 best tweets ever!
[12:53] <Switches> Ohh Serious Sam 4 has been confirmed in development :o
[12:56] <daftykins> i didn't even touch the last one, impressive
[12:57] <Switches> All of them tbh are great, 2 is my personal fav, but 3 is great fun
[13:00] <daftykins> many a fond memory of playing them at LAN parties
[13:01] <daftykins> that is, assuming i managed to take my IT support hat off and my gamer hat on ;)
[13:01] <Switches> lol
[13:01] <Switches> Yeah I often hit that problem
[13:02] <Switches> Or well I used to when I was doing work in IT
[13:03] <Switches> Nowadays I get to be lazy and just break things :p
[13:04] <penguin42> breaking things is so much easier and less stressful than having to fix things
[13:04] <daftykins> :D
[13:06] <penguin42> you don't get teams of engineers camped outside with pitchforks complaining that you still haven't broken the server
[13:06] <Switches> Yep, totally agree penguin42
[13:12] <daftykins> very interesting firing up this old macbook i have here and being told chrome has dropped support for 10.6 through 10.8 - also Firefox will ditch those versions come August
[13:12] <daftykins> the times they are a-changin'!
[13:12] <Switches> Yep
[13:13] <daftykins> though Firefox 45 ESR will continue until sometime next year
[13:13] <daftykins> the only reason i care is i felt slightly immoral enough to begin with about trying to sell it given 10.8 is insecure and unsupported now, but these facts make it even worse
[13:14] <Switches> Get linux on it :p
[13:14] <daftykins> interestingly i did boot 16.04 earlier and it works better now, 14.04 required that you lay down an entire finger segment for the mouse pointer to move
[13:15] <daftykins> macs are a bit of a joke with *buntu though, you get the most functionality with vanilla unity, but being old it's a bit of a drag on it
[13:15] <Switches> Yeah it can be on some of the older hardware
[13:15] <daftykins> picking xubuntu for example won't even have an appropriate keyboard layout
[13:15] <SuperEngineer> daftykins:  sell it, take money [but make sure you got a good pair of running shoes]
[13:16] <daftykins> heh, yeah i am planning to ditch it but it has no battery or AC adapter right now
[13:16] <SuperEngineer> whoops, I meant to say you are highly immoral and should consider other options ;-)
[13:16] <Switches> :D
[13:16] <SuperEngineer> NAH!!!
[13:16] <daftykins> XD
[13:17] <SuperEngineer> [so tell them "you can can those "add-ons"... but it will cost them a bit more
[13:17] <daftykins> i'd be a bit iffy trying to sell it with Linux on because the fanboys that would likely go for such a machine would probably be after the normal experience
[13:17] <daftykins> i wouldn't fancy supporting a Linux distro :>
[13:19] <daftykins> i could do with a 2GB DDR2 533MHz SODIMM to chuck in so it's maxxed out at 4GB RAM
[13:19] <DJones> daftykins: I've tried that, just with family members who gave up on windows due to viruses, it hard work traying to get them through the different app's & software installations
[13:20] <daftykins> mm, the profit of sale would be lost on getting them going
[13:22] <DJones> Saying that, I was dealing with a 75 year old that was used to CP/M & coaxial cable networking
[13:22] <daftykins> aww yeah :D
[13:22] <DJones> and IBM DRS 50 mini computers
[13:23] <daftykins> i started with coax, swear it was down every time i tried to use it to copy a file
[13:23] <DJones> DRS 20 dumb terminals/DRS 50 mini computer server
[13:23]  * penguin42 takes daftykins terminator
[13:23] <daftykins> noooo
[13:23] <daftykins> penguin42 is... the terminator terminator
[13:25] <DJones> daftykins: Any idea what the data transfer rate was on coax cable compared to cat 5/cat 6
[13:26] <daftykins> well i had 10BaseT, so 1.25MB/sec maximum, but probably saw 500KB/sec between a Pentium 1 and a Pentium 3
[13:26] <penguin42> yeh that coax at the time was 10base-2 usually, so still 10Mbps
[13:26] <daftykins> half duplex, with collisions galore
[13:26] <daftykins> oh 2 not T, my mistake
[13:28] <popey> Speaking of old tech...
[13:28] <popey> I flew home from Austin yesterday, sat next to one of the BBC Micro creators :)
[13:28] <DJones> I think my dad & I used the 10BaseT (we both worked at the same place) but we were using dumb terminals http://america.pink/icl-drs_2036318.html back in around 1986/87 ish
[13:28] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: the word Two starts with a "T" - easy mistake
[13:28] <popey> Spent hours chatting about the BBC, Archemides, Doomsday disc..
[13:29] <penguin42> DJones: A lot of the specialist stuff was not 10Base-2/T - it was 'special'
[13:29] <daftykins> and you didn't get escorted away by airport security for doing a bomb impression after saying doomsday? impressive!
[13:29] <penguin42> popey: Which one?
[13:29] <Switches> Acorn was the best "old" tech :p
[13:30] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKHEsp8MYTM this guy
[13:30] <DJones> penguin42: This wasn't specialist stuff, just a chemical processing plant
[13:30] <popey> he was a super interesting guy to chat to
[13:30] <penguin42> DJones: Yeh but it was ICL so they like to be special
[13:30] <DJones> :)
[13:32] <DJones> Sheesh, this takes me back to my first paying programming work.....
[13:32] <SuperEngineer> Simplest job ever was being sent to site to see if their comms to outside world be restored.  Asked for access to comms room, reseated a couple of pluds in wall sockets and asked them if they tell their cleaners to be a bit more careful.
[13:33] <SuperEngineer> *plugs
[13:33] <penguin42> popey: Oh, that's one of the Acorn guys I've not heard much of at all
[13:34] <DJones> SuperEngineer: I thought you meant you'd reseated a couple of "pleb" cleaners by bashing them into the wall :)
[13:34] <Switches> That would work :p
[13:34] <popey> he's lovely chap
[13:34] <SuperEngineer> oooo... that would have been so tempting :-)
[13:41] <Switches> I need more coffee
[13:41] <Switches> Then I need to fix Gnome 3.20 on the testbench :(
[13:47] <DJones> Switches: https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13221589_10207673960666115_8454350921492499246_n.jpg?oh=69b12fe3c25acddcddd3190e49d94890&oe=57D87A79
[13:47] <Switches> Yep :) thats a good one
[13:47] <popey> penguin42: I asked him about Micro men, the BBC docu-drama thing. he was complimentary. Said they came and talked to the whole team and were mostly accurate
[13:48] <popey> even down to Chris Curry's XR2 :)
[14:43] <Switches> Ohh a new systemd release and mesa improvements for Skylake.
[14:45] <SuperEngineer> Tip of the day: s-t-o-p trimming toenails when you feel a sneeze coming on!  [I can currently prove how bad an idea it is to ignore that]  OUCH!
[14:46] <penguin42> ouch
[14:46] <SuperEngineer> enginner's plastet emergency time!  Kitchen roll & selotape ;-)
[14:46] <penguin42> ouch^2
[14:48] <SuperEngineer> yeah, "ouch" is similar to what I said... same number of letters but different spelling
[14:48] <Switches> lol
[18:18] <diddledan> lol, the X11 deadkey for the hammer and sickle: ☭ is alt+c, c, c, p
[18:19] <diddledan> i.e. cccp
[18:19] <penguin42> haha
[18:19] <penguin42> how do you trigger that?
[18:19] <diddledan> I found it in here: https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libX11/tree/nls/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.pre?id=3129c757f9da8586ab8b8654a56c8f687cc9ef5c
[18:20] <diddledan> I'm gonna have to try it out
[18:20]  * diddledan downloads an iso
[18:21] <diddledan> and the pile of poo is alt+p, o, o
[18:22] <diddledan> and the finger is alt+F, U
[18:37] <diddledan> I'm having a twitdebate about what to name the act of creating a password hash, where hash and encrypt can't be used due to being overloaded
[18:38] <daftykins> thrashing
[18:38] <daftykins> ;D
[18:40] <zmoylan-pi> in 140 characters so one hand tied behind your back... :-)
[18:43] <diddledan> aye
[18:43] <diddledan> I've just suggested "repeatably and verifiably obliterate" :-D
[18:44] <daftykins> oh i've got it...
[18:44] <daftykins> "Ripley'd"
[18:44] <diddledan> lol
[19:35] <diddledan> ok, for those funky character compositions, in ubuntu you first need to go to keyboard settings and set your compose key to right-alt (even though right-alt does stuff already, it's not actually defined as the compose key in the en_GB locale)
[19:35] <diddledan> poo doesn't work in 16.03
[19:35] <diddledan> 16.04
[19:35] <diddledan> not does FU
[19:35] <diddledan> ☭ (CCCP) does
[19:36] <diddledan> that's ALT+C+C+C+P
[19:36] <diddledan> ♥ (ALT+<+3)
[19:42] <popey> ☭
[19:42] <popey> don't need to set that, it's default Shift+AltGr
[19:43] <popey> Ⓒ
[19:44] <daftykins> then add the number you first thought of
[19:44] <daftykins> ;D
[19:44] <popey> http://kryogenix.org/random/compose/
[19:44] <popey> that's fun
[19:51] <diddledan> popey: me like
[19:54] <popey> :)
[20:11]  * penguin42 doesn't quite understand this
[20:11] <penguin42> if I'm using ffmpeg to convert from an rtmp h264 stream to mp4, mp4 is just a container of h264 - so why am I seeing ffmpeg spending time in idct?
[20:12] <brobostigon> has anyone been to a carluccios before?
[20:13]  * penguin42 has only ogled at their goods
[20:14] <daftykins> seems to be talk online of telling it to skip IDCT o0
[20:14] <daftykins> can you snag some raw and look at detailed info with 'mediainfo' ?
[20:15] <penguin42> daftykins: How would I snag that?
[20:15] <brobostigon> anniversary treat planning. :)
[20:15] <daftykins> hrmm i've not played with rtmp
[20:55] <penguin42> daftykins: -c:v copy  says furq on #ffmpeg - seems to do the trick
[22:14] <sebsebseb> hi
[22:16] <Switches> heya sebsebseb
[22:16] <sebsebseb> Switches: hi
[22:16] <Switches> Hows you mate?
[22:17] <sebsebseb> Switches: ok been to a festival yesterday and today
[22:17] <Switches> Ohh nice
[22:17]  * sebsebseb spent quite a lot of money really, but that's how it goes at places like that
[22:17] <Switches> lol yeah aint it just
[22:17] <sebsebseb> Switches: yeah £4:50 here and there
[22:18] <sebsebseb> £5 pounds etc
[22:18] <sebsebseb> everything adds up in the end
[22:18] <sebsebseb> want a t-shirt that's uhmm £!5 or more uh
[22:18] <sebsebseb> etc
[22:18] <sebsebseb> Switches: I think I didn't get round to it all it's massive
[22:18] <sebsebseb> it was massive
[22:18] <sebsebseb> think I might have missed a section some where
[22:19] <Switches> :D
[22:19] <sebsebseb> Switches: seems veganism is becoming a thing in Bristol, or starting to be yep
[22:19] <Switches> Still aslong as you had fun, that's what matters
[22:20] <Switches> Wouldn't know tbh don't follow the trends in Bristol much (living here is enough for me) lol
[22:20] <sebsebseb> Switches: even entertainment was bad on both evenings I thought, didn't like music etc
[22:20] <sebsebseb> but still stayed
[22:20] <Switches> Aww
[22:20] <sebsebseb> Switches: well there are like three or four vegan cafes etc  for a start there
[22:20] <Switches> Well if it was pop or that I would have hated it
[22:20] <sebsebseb> Switches: well yeah pop or not quite, but
[22:20] <sebsebseb> yeah house music the first night hmm
[22:21] <Switches> ewww
[22:21]  * penguin42 thinks there are 2 or 3 in and around Manchester
[22:21] <sebsebseb> Switches: and then electronic earlier
[22:21] <sebsebseb> Switches: the guy from the band was good at drawing attention I thought, but the music s ucked
[22:21] <sebsebseb> penguin42: yes theres going to be a vegan fest up in the mid lands later on in the year as well
[22:21] <Switches> >.< I would have been walking round with headphones and my music blasting so I didn't hear it
[22:21] <sebsebseb> and Scoltand as well
[22:21] <sebsebseb> Switches: then you see people dancing to this sucky music
[22:22] <sebsebseb> Switches: and I think like why?
[22:22] <penguin42> sebsebseb: They're probably out of their skulls on something unspeakable
[22:22] <Switches> sebsebseb: I'd be the same.. I'd probably ask when the decent music was going to start.
[22:22] <sebsebseb> penguin42: h eh what you mean exactly by that?
[22:22] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I wouldn't like to say, I mean it's unspeakable
[22:23] <sebsebseb> penguin42: as in bad yeah?
[22:23] <sebsebseb> or uh was that techno on the first night to
[22:23] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Yes
[22:23] <sebsebseb> well either way music wass bad both evenings
[22:23] <sebsebseb> on main stage, then they had like a small stage with also bad music and people jugglling fire on both evenings
[22:24] <sebsebseb> watching someone juggling fire gets boring after not that long as well
[22:24] <penguin42> unless they drop it and set someone alight
[22:24] <Switches> xD
[22:24] <sebsebseb> penguin42: indeed
[22:24] <sebsebseb> the event had good stalls, but  most suff at a cost so uhmm
[22:25]  * sebsebseb has new vegan food to try
[22:25] <sebsebseb> no I didn't go vegan, vegetarian though yes
[22:25] <penguin42> sebsebseb: So you paid money to be at a place where you could spend more money and listen to bad music?
[22:25] <sebsebseb> vegan is interesting though, since there are various food products for that etc, plus it all  tastes uhmm differnet form usaul food, well most of it
[22:25] <sebsebseb> penguin42: yep basically
[22:26] <sebsebseb> penguin42: didn't pre book tickets in advanced, which also meant paying on both days at the door the £8
[22:26] <penguin42> oh not a vast amount
[22:26] <sebsebseb> penguin42: £8 seemed a bit steep to me for entry
[22:26] <sebsebseb> penguin42: plus my bus has gone up in price!
[22:27] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Well, I do seem to have designed a chocolate sorbet that is free of anything animal (mostly by accident but hey it works)
[22:27] <sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah and ve gan chocoate isn't just dark  choclate or mostly as some people may think, I got some intersting uhmm falvours,  not tried yet
[22:27] <sebsebseb> there was one like a proper milk altenratibe one etc
[22:28] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Oh well this is mostly just dark :-)   I did try adding a tin of pears today and I'll see how that comes out tomorrow - it's tricky to get it soft without the milk fat though
[22:28] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches I had vegan fish and chips earlier now that was something!
[22:28] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches  altough kind of wonder where they got the thing from, when he's like chinese market!
[22:28] <Switches> Sounds interesting..
[22:29] <Switches> Although I wouldn't be brave enough to ask exactly it was made with lol
[22:29] <penguin42> sebsebseb: hmm, what was the fish ?
[22:29] <sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42 it really did taste like well cod from what I remember.  probably about a year and a half ago now since having actsual fish and chips
[22:29] <sebsebseb> penguin42: well it was made using vegan ingrediants and then in a factory
[22:30] <sebsebseb> unless that really was a fish and they sold it as vegan, but probably not
[22:30] <Switches> lol
[22:30] <sebsebseb> Switches: I wondered with a veggie susage roll I got like last week
[22:30] <sebsebseb> Switches: from a local normal place
[22:30] <Switches> :D
[22:30] <sebsebseb> tasted so much like a real susuage roll from what I remember
[22:31] <sebsebseb> so I went back and  she's like,  oh we get that at times, it's quorn mince though
[22:31] <Switches> Well I'll stick to me full english breakfasts with black pudding, thanks :P
[22:31] <sebsebseb> checking with her colleage, and geting a bit uh at me,  since they were on the verge of closing and she had been there many hours, h eh
[22:31] <sebsebseb> Switches: You bad boy/!
[22:32] <Switches> >:)
[22:32] <sebsebseb> Switches: h eh oh and if you can be ethical about software, which I assume you are, or why you using Linux etc :d..  why not over animal  cruelty stuff enough to be mostly ve getarian at least anyway :d,  just a thought :)
[22:32] <sebsebseb> same to other omnivores in here I guess h eh
[22:32] <Switches> lol
[22:33] <sebsebseb> Switches: being etchical over animals, more so than software, is more real :d
[22:33] <sebsebseb> software is this uhmm virtual cyber thing that runs lots of technology that is used today, but
[22:34] <sebsebseb> where in reality not actsaully tat many people who even know about opensource/freesoftware care enough about the ethics of  it, and enough,  except for Stallman and such
[22:34] <Switches> Well animal cruelty depends on how much you are willing to "accept" as normal. As far as software goes I use Linux because of it being open source, not really the "ethics" side I'm not a GNU fan
[22:34] <sebsebseb> in the real world as some peple would say, using their saying,  it woudn't matter that much, if it's free or non free
[22:35] <sebsebseb> going back to veganism  dependding on perosn can be a bit exteme there's a like extreme end of it all with certain people, same for opensource/freesoftware
[22:35] <Switches> I have a big dislike for RMS tbh, especially when he uses the GPL to try and control projects. But that's a whole other discussion
[22:35] <sebsebseb> Switches: I did see him talk in Bath before, and talked to him very breifuly after, was interesting
[22:35] <Switches> Yeah I sit somewhere in the grey area on most of it
[22:36] <sebsebseb> but yes he's in the extreame end of software freedom
[22:36] <sebsebseb> the prime example of that
[22:36] <sebsebseb> Switches: I think he uses non free software in the planes he travels in :d
[22:36] <sebsebseb> around the world
[22:36] <Switches> xD
[22:37] <sebsebseb> and in microwaves and such.  I  think someone asked him once,  what about a microwave? and he was like  it's just a device so eh
[22:37] <Switches> Guess that's one way of looking at it
[22:37] <sebsebseb> Switches: yep in a plane, and it's fly8ing, probably indirectly using free software
[22:37] <sebsebseb> the thing your in is using non free software though
[22:38] <sebsebseb> Switches: animal cruely  depending on how much  to accept as normal what did you  mean by that just now?
[22:38] <Switches> Tbh opensource has enough of a job on its own, being under the "umbrella" of FSF isn't always a bad thing but at times I think it can be detremental
[22:39] <sebsebseb> Switches: as a side thing there's also death, going to be dead like the meat one day, and then what hmmm,  now that bothers me since I am not sure what I belive really when it comes to things like that
[22:40] <sebsebseb> Switches: not very nice having animals kiled though just for mostly a taste etc, that's how I see it now
[22:41] <Switches> Depends on which way you see it I guess. I don't like animals being mistreated, but at the same time I don't exactly feel obligated to protect them.
[22:42] <sebsebseb> Switches: yeah I am not into that stuff enough, to be like a activist for that
[22:42] <sebsebseb> Switches: but enough to think about it, and be well veggie now :)
[22:42] <Switches> If it wasn't me eating them (which tbh most the meat you eat are bred for) they would only be killed in the wild anyways
[22:42] <sebsebseb> Switches: yes debateably eggs are bad since.... and milk too since... and  even honey!
[22:42] <Switches> Always something bigger and more dangerous about
[22:43] <sebsebseb> Switches: however as someone basically said at a veggie vegan meal I went to, got to draw a lilne some where and decide how far or not you want to go
[22:43] <Switches> Imo man only survives because its at the top of the food chain as it were. Look at us physically compared to some of the stuff on this planet, we only win by brains and numbers, not strength.
[22:44] <sebsebseb> Switches: pescetarian  where vegetarian but eating fish sometiems still, to adctsaul vegatarian ok.  however I had never intended to be a vegan before,  like my milk shakes and such to much for  that for now etc.  but I think from a ethical point of view being vegetarian is much better than being a meat etc eater
[22:45] <sebsebseb> might go ve gan once more into cooking and baking myself :)  oh  I bought one or two or so recipe books at event
[22:45]  * penguin42 doesn't really see the ethical problems with milk or perhaps even eggs
[22:45] <Switches> I can see the point to it, and praise people who can be vegan or veggie. That's the whole point in having free will as it were
[22:46] <Switches> But for me, I couldn't be a vegan or vegetarian. Just not my style personally
[22:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42: well the males may get killed
[22:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42: for example
[22:47] <sebsebseb> since can't produce eggs or milk
[22:47] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches I came across this quite recently, but for India there's like two food labeling,s green and brown I think itw as yeah.  green so vegeterian stuff
[22:48] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches brown things that arent vegetarian so meat for example, but here's the thing also eggs
[22:48] <sebsebseb> eggs why? since it seems to be there's this idea that a egg is a bit like eating a whole chicken or kind of
[22:48] <Switches> I guess a lot comes down to culture aswell
[22:48] <sebsebseb> that a egg is well something that is meant to give life etc so, eating that uhmm
[22:49] <sebsebseb> and then this was goign by a indian guy in person who I am starting to know a bit from something, but if I remember corredctly he said milk on theo ther hand they  would be more ok with since  it's not   like a thing that's meant tobe alive basidally
[22:49] <zmoylan-pi> and that an egg comes from a chickens bum...
[22:50] <popey> cloaca
[22:50] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: even alley gator eggs?
[22:50] <sebsebseb> Switches: yeah culture indeed, but in the UK  egg and milk is under vegatarian  but not veganism yep
[22:50] <popey> chickens have cloacas
[22:50] <Switches> Heya popey, diddledan
[22:50] <popey> yo
[22:51] <sebsebseb> Switches: real vegans have issues with honey too though! I read some webpageabout that before, since it's freom bees uhmm.  uhmm right well I like occasiaonl honey  as a treat,  so uhmm no veganism for me then I guess
[22:51] <sebsebseb> or soon
[22:51] <popey> diddledan: yes
[22:51] <Switches> Well I think the UK is a bit weird when you compare us to most places.. I mean our main "liked" foods aren't even from the UK most the time :p
[22:51] <sebsebseb> popey: for some reason I was thinking you might have been sleeping, even though USA is behind uh, time one stuff, like you hadn't adjusged back h eh, but I guess you been back most of the week actsaully now h eh
[22:52] <sebsebseb> popey: how was the wild wide west, well uhmm Texas?
[22:52] <popey> sebsebseb: i'm back in the uk
[22:52] <popey> Texas was excellent
[22:52] <popey> want to go back to Austin sometime
[22:52]  * Switches hates adverts on youtube spoiling my music..
[22:52] <sebsebseb> how was it excellent?
[22:52] <diddledan> popey: alley gator eggs come from a chicken's bum/cloaca?
[22:53] <popey> diddledan: well done
[22:53] <popey> sebsebseb: got lots done, met fine people, had great food
[22:53]  * diddledan wonders whether the alley gators would eat the chicken that laid them
[22:53] <Switches> It was "excellent" because popey got beat by an AI robot at Rock/Paper/Scissors!
[22:53] <popey> there was that
[22:53] <zmoylan-pi> should have played spock instead...
[22:53]  * sebsebseb should probably eat some of that vegan food, such as the uhmm  hmm
[22:54] <popey> we had some nice vegan food in Austin
[22:54] <popey> I had vegan pizza on last day
[22:54] <sebsebseb> popey: what kind of food I was going to ast?
[22:54] <sebsebseb> say
[22:54] <popey> had some nice asian food too
[22:54] <popey> i have marked all the places we went on google maps
[22:55] <popey> so if i go again, i can remember where to do
[22:55] <Switches> Found that funny when you bought it up in Ubuntu-on-air :p
[22:55] <popey> go
[22:55] <popey> :)
[22:55] <penguin42> I've heard it said Austin is very unlike the rest of Texas
[22:55] <Switches> everyone like "oh yeah sure, see ya guys"
[22:55] <sebsebseb> popey: vegan pizza, so just well pizza wihtout cheese?  or was it with vegan cheese?
[22:56] <Switches> Pizza without cheese is blasphemy!
[22:56]  * sebsebseb could have had  vegan pizza at the event earlier or maybe if enough cash left, but no I think the food I got instead was better mostly :)
[22:56] <sebsebseb> ok maybe not that paella to begin with though,but eh
[22:56] <sebsebseb> annoyingly I had ran out of cash the first evening so coudn't even get food then uh
[22:56] <sebsebseb> on the first day
[22:56] <Switches> :(
[22:56] <sebsebseb> Switches: yeah what you get for uhmm
[22:57] <Switches> Next time take more dosh
[22:57] <sebsebseb> Switches: thinking you got lots of money
[22:57] <sebsebseb> Switches: buying something else in town first, clothes wise
[22:57] <sebsebseb> and paying   well in cash and then card
[22:57] <sebsebseb> Switches: I did  this second day
[22:57] <sebsebseb> mad sure I had more etc
[22:57] <Switches> :D
[22:57] <sebsebseb> Switches: but guess what, I have spent most of it, and uhmm that was quite a bit really
[22:57] <sebsebseb> or maybe not actsauly in reality when everything is expensive at events that is for sale as I was trying to say earlier
[22:58] <Switches> I used to like going to the Computer Fair in Bristol, but never took enough money...
[22:58] <sebsebseb> everything adds up
[22:58] <sebsebseb> £100 for example is not much, once you start buying things!
[22:58] <Switches> Yeah it kinda runs out fast
[22:59] <sebsebseb> Switches: indeed
[22:59] <sebsebseb> usually £100 is a fair bit etc,  but for events not anymore it seems most events anyway
[23:00] <Switches> Yeah, everything seems to be so expensive now when it comes to any show/event
[23:00] <sebsebseb> Switches: or  is that just UK ones mainly
[23:00] <sebsebseb> Brussels FOSDEM is great :d
[23:00] <sebsebseb> get a lot of freebies :)
[23:00] <Switches> :D
[23:00] <sebsebseb> and  at 15 ueros  a t-shirt  for example for most stands, that doens't seem so bad
[23:00] <sebsebseb> at the time
[23:01] <sebsebseb> Switches: I did get one or two well there things for free the first day though, that otherwise would have been sold to  people
[23:01] <sebsebseb> four maybe acsaully
[23:01] <Switches> Tbh i never travel out of the country anymore (well actually very rarely travel out of my house lol) used to like going to Italy on my motorbike or Germany in the car :p
[23:02] <sebsebseb> Switches: yeh
[23:02] <sebsebseb> well expensive to travel to
[23:02]  * penguin42 hasn't been to Bristol - it's a pain to get down there from Manc
[23:02] <sebsebseb> unless your someone like popey and at times can get your company ( Canonical ) to pay for you to go somewhere good, oh isn't he lucky h eh, USA on the company :D
[23:02] <sebsebseb> penguin42: well it is and isn't
[23:02] <Switches> Yeah, but tbh if you take your own vehicle it comes in pretty cheap for a trip to Italy
[23:03] <sebsebseb> penguin42: I belve the train for example is rather direct
[23:03] <Switches> penguin42: Yeah I bet
[23:03] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Liverpool is like three hours away in car or via trains from here though,
[23:03] <Switches> The motorways up there are enough to put people off for life xD
[23:04] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Well we're OK Man->London on west coast main line, but as soon as you go off the west coast mainline it gets slow
[23:05] <sebsebseb> penguin42:  for Liverpool I had to change train, since otherwise well that ones go to Mancheser the first
[23:05] <sebsebseb> penguin42: that one would go through Birmingahm New Street sure and out again, but  would just stay on :d
[23:06] <sebsebseb> so that's what I meant by direct really
[23:06] <sebsebseb> no change of train
[23:06] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Manc-Liverpool is really fast/easy - although it depends which train station you happen to be in
[23:06] <diddledan> penguin42: london on the west coast mainline?
[23:06] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh
[23:06] <diddledan> isn't london on the east?
[23:06] <penguin42> diddledan: End up in the concretey depths of Euston
[23:06] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Bristol to Manchester is just one train it seems
[23:06] <sebsebseb> penguin42: so not so bad
[23:06] <sebsebseb> Switches: oh what you doing next Saturday?
[23:07] <Switches> Hmm probably the same as I do every Saturday, nothing but sit around having a can of fosters
[23:07] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Yeh I guess just over 3h - not too bad - except for the cost
[23:07] <sebsebseb> Switches: ok but you could have a pint of fosters or something better to drink, at the LUG ????
[23:08] <sebsebseb> penguin42: indeed cost would be about £70 I guess
[23:08] <Switches> I would mate, but I aint really the sociable type. Hence why I stay in my house a lot lol
[23:08] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Looking closer to 80 one way
[23:08]  * sebsebseb woudn't mind meeting Switches :)
[23:09] <sebsebseb> Switches: doesn't matter
[23:09] <sebsebseb> Switches: some of them aren't  that sociable I guess, and also old h eh
[23:09] <sebsebseb> Switches: I mean old as in yes old
[23:09] <Switches> I have a pub literally over the back of me and wont use that either :p
[23:09] <sebsebseb> Switches: oh which pub?
[23:09] <Switches> Na mine is more health related :p
[23:10] <sebsebseb> Switches: you  are sort of sociable I guess
[23:10] <Switches> Fulford Inn
[23:10] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I often just go to Liverpool for an afternoon - it's only 30-45mins away by train
[23:10] <sebsebseb> Switches:   IRC is sort of sociable
[23:10] <Switches> Infront of a comp yeah :p
[23:10] <sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah I know they are quite near
[23:11] <sebsebseb> penguin42: been to Manchester airport before with  my Dad and one of my brothers, but never been to actsual Manchester
[23:11] <Switches> I suffer from depression and anxiety disorders, hence why I spend a lot of time infront of a PC rather than out and about.
[23:11]  * popey goes to bed dreaming of his meizu pro 5 which arrives tomorrow
[23:11] <sebsebseb> penguin42: plus there's a uhmm free software  fanatic  that I could meet up with theer if I was going to Manchester hmm
[23:11] <penguin42> sebsebseb: the airport is a bit out of the way relative to the city
[23:11] <sebsebseb> popey: : ok nice :) or today even sinc after mid night
[23:11] <Switches> Ohh nice popey, nn mate sleep well
[23:11] <sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah I know it's like on the out skirts or soething
[23:12] <sebsebseb> popey: just uhmm don't sit on that  phone or something like that :d
[23:15] <sebsebseb> Switches: pm or here whatever, your choice, anxiety how?
[23:15] <sebsebseb> depression why?
[23:18] <penguin42> it's just the way brains work
[23:19] <sebsebseb> penguin42: everyone is differnet
[23:19] <penguin42> right
[23:20] <zmoylan-pi> i'm not... :-)
[23:26] <Switches> zmoylan-pi: You're not different to everyone else?
[23:27]  * Switches runs away from zmoylan-pi HE's A CLONE!!
[23:28] <zmoylan-pi> the correct term is doppleganger... :-P
[23:28] <Switches> lol
[23:29] <Switches> But who's?!
[23:29] <zmoylan-pi> mine
[23:29] <Switches> :o
[23:29]  * Switches runs
[23:29] <Switches> I need more coffee.. again
[23:29] <zmoylan-pi> at this time of night?
[23:30] <Switches> I drink a lot of coffee, it actually helps me relax and sleep (I know stupid or what)
[23:33]  * penguin42 sticks to the very dark chocolate
[23:35] <Switches> Ahh coffee
[23:37] <sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42  a point I should have put earlier to or could have but I'l ldo it now i
[23:37] <sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42 vegan is also becoming like a thing really!
[23:37] <sebsebseb> as for shown to me by that event ,but not just that, in general it's becoming more of a thing
[23:38] <sebsebseb> just got on some link talking about Americans even
[23:38] <sebsebseb> wanting  vegan products meat eaters, vegetairns ,vegans
[23:38] <Switches> Well I guess its always been a "thing" but imo it's like early Linux :p not for the mainstream xD
[23:39] <sebsebseb> Switches: but it's becoming more main stremae  going by the link I just tgot on anwyy
[23:39] <Switches> Yeah I think it's pretty big in certain parts
[23:39] <sebsebseb> Switches: an American linik, but for the UK same kind of thing I guess: http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Markets/Vegan-is-going-mainstream-trend-data-suggests
[23:40] <sebsebseb> Switches: I know of and have been to four,  Vegan cafes in Bristol that sell yep you guessed it vegan food!
[23:41] <sebsebseb> well I guess one of them is more like a resturant really or is a resturant really, well two really
[23:41] <Switches> I should hope they did.. not much point being a restaurant for vegans then selling burger and chips :p
[23:41] <penguin42> sebsebseb: vegan has been a thing for a long long time - one of my uncles is
[23:42] <Switches> Yeah I think he's more saying it's becoming "widespread" with all the "healthy" eating plans and such
[23:42] <sebsebseb> Switches: Briistol is alright for vegan/veggie then since those places
[23:43] <Switches> Yeah, always good to have a choice
[23:43] <sebsebseb> Switches: however I remember going at the wrong time of year to Bristol hoping to eat in one of the three places with someone, and all three were shut!
[23:43] <sebsebseb> the fancy place another part so wasn't going to that one.  three of the four are in the same kind of bigish area
[23:44] <sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42 yep more widespread that's what I meant
[23:44] <Switches> Well there are probably even more popping up nowadays. Park Street and maybe erm.. cant remember the name of the road.. Oh yeah Whiteladies road
[23:44]  * sebsebseb remembers when he used to be unsure about vegatiran and vegan, and think that generally that would be seen as a like bad thing by most people
[23:44] <sebsebseb> etc
[23:44] <sebsebseb> ,but no it's awesome really stuff like that  :), if can do it I mean :)
[23:44] <sebsebseb> now I know :)
[23:45] <sebsebseb> Switches: penguin42 it's ashame though that I can't buy any of the products except for the basic stuff
[23:45] <sebsebseb> the very basic stuff ike Soya milk and yeah
[23:45] <sebsebseb> where I actusally live
[23:45] <penguin42> sebsebseb: What type of stuff are you after?
[23:45] <Switches> Tbh a lot of thing's have became the "norm" as it were for Bristol, I mean we have a lot of places around cater to all different types of people
[23:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42:  well there's a whole world of interesting vegan products out there now!
[23:46] <sebsebseb> I been buying some more of that this weekend, things I haven't had before,  time to eat some of that soon :d
[23:46] <penguin42> sebsebseb: It's certainly hard to find things like agar-agar in the shop
[23:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42: I haven't paid that much attention to the actsal prdocuts that were availale etc etc,  and not quite sure what really is, I  just know there are lots of them.  so uhmm what's agar-agar?
[23:47] <penguin42> sebsebseb: It's a seaweed derived gelling agent
[23:47] <Switches> You would probably find some shops like that up towards Clifton, but yeah they aren't very mainstream
[23:47] <sebsebseb> Switches: the Italian place near hte bus station is a good one that trys to cater to everyone
[23:47] <sebsebseb> Switches: in it's menu as well, it had a thing about vegaterian, vegan, and meat eating
[23:48] <sebsebseb> penguin42:  Switches yes there's that to,, the vegan cosmetics
[23:48] <Switches> ahh the one that used to be a beafeaters, yeah I have heard about them, my aunt eats there a lot with her friends
[23:48] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches there's been some or more of that at teh event  this weekend to but I didn't buy any of that
[23:48] <penguin42> sebsebseb: It works in recipies where you might otherwise use gelatine
[23:49] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Switches oh  you put getlign agent so I was thinking  theo ther thing, but ok your on about the food thing ok
[23:49]  * sebsebseb thinks of gel has bieing like shower gel etc, but that's not always what it means
[23:51] <penguin42> sebsebseb: There are quite a few gelling agents that get used both in food and in cosmetics etc - very difficult to get on the high street