[00:04] <TheMarius> ubuntu devs here? take a look at www.appimage.org .... something to integrade/cooperate with reg. snappy soon coming to ubuntu? and whoever came up with snappy packages deserves flowers from linux torvalds personally, its just what linux needs!
[00:12] <Bashing-om> WB EriC^^ :)
[00:13] <EriC^^> thanks Bashing-om :)
[00:15] <Bashing-om> I have allowed this to turn into a mad house .
[00:16] <EriC^^> hehe
[00:20] <EriC^^> what's the deal with sonic
[00:24] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: lightdm does not start .. 16.04. radeon driver . xorg and lshw show no problems .
[00:24] <EriC^^> oh
[00:27] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: sonic can not start any account from the login screen . yuk .
[02:58] <ibrumfield> GM lotus
[03:14] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[03:24] <Bashing-om> Oh lotuspsychje That time already ? Time flys as we have fun .
[03:25] <lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
[03:26] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: are you on xenial yourself?
[03:28] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Not yet .. going to get that SSD and install on it all fresh .
[03:28] <lotuspsychje> nice!
[03:34] <Bashing-om> At least it will be when I can make it happen . Lawn mowers, weed eaters, auto coolant .... groceries ... I got to squeeze in the monies somewhere for a SSD !
[03:35] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i always look around if i can re-sell something to make money
[03:36] <lotuspsychje> im pretty active on 2nd hand websites
[03:39] <Bashing-om> Well, I am of this mind ; If I did not want it, I would not have bought it .. I got nothing I want to sell .
[03:42] <lotuspsychje> ah,that sounds perfect minimalistic lifestyle :p
[03:42] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: sonic has a failure of lightdm to start .. messing about for several hours and I have no clue why .
[03:42] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: oh? ubuntu version? upgrade or clean install?
[03:45] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Clean install, 16.04 was good for a few days .. xorg log shows no problem  loading radeon . Not even able to start the GUI from TTY1 . Poster has no odea of what might have happened . Out of patience now and going for the nuclear solution . But I sure would like to learn the why .
[03:46] <ibrumfield> Bashing-om: thank god ssd's are cheap as hell now, only reason i have one
[03:47] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: thats weird it worked for a few days before, radeon driver should be pretty stable
[03:48] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: No doubt it is sometung in the UI . reconfigured the greeter and unity .. still no joy .
[03:48] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: tested the guest session?
[03:49] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: My 1st approach .. not even able to get the login screen to activate any account . yikes !
[03:49] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: could also be due to newer kernel recently
[03:49] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: make him load a previous one to test also
[03:50] <lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic
[03:50] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hey .. not that ^^ is an idea !
[03:50] <lotuspsychje> recent one here
[03:51] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: yeah some brands are rather cheap, but think Bashing-om wants a samsung
[03:52] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: Gotcha, i picked up a crucial cheap. dont know about the samsung ones
[03:52] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: alot of acpi issues we got solved in main, with updating to kernel 4.6 on xenial aswell
[03:52] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yakkety moving to 4.6 soon also
[03:53] <Bashing-om> I am going to buy into their spiel of " better technology ' in Samsung's controller .
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> samsung is the best
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> i have a friend with server company with only samsung pro ssd's
[03:53] <ibrumfield> Bashing-om: definitly get what you pay for
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> and he said he hammered them 24/7 and never got 1 fail yet
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: the 850 pro gets 10 years warranty imagine
[03:54] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: Im just using it in a thinpad so i dont need anything hardcore
[03:54] <Bashing-om> I think ' best ' for the money .  SSDs like graphic's cards .. the sky is the limit on cost .
[03:56] <Bashing-om> ( I have run this ole box for several years on a $15 ATI card ) .
[03:59] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: wow, those really arent priced bad at newegg
[04:03] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: i got the 850 pro 128gig for like 90$
[04:04] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: i might look into those, i need to pick one up for my desktop. Thanks
[04:06] <lotuspsychje> got one myself in netbook here
[04:06] <lotuspsychje> 8sec ubuntu boot, 3sec halt
[04:11] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I can beat that boot time here on spinners .. imagine no wait at all on a SSD .
[04:11] <lotuspsychje> yeah its only a netbook here
[04:12] <lotuspsychje> 4gig ram
[04:13] <Bashing-om> Now, If I were booting to a GUI .. I can accept that my boot time would be much greater .
[04:16] <ibrumfield> either of you know what the purpose of history-daemon is?
[04:18] <Bashing-om> ibrumfield: Rings no bells here .
[04:19] <ibrumfield> its constantly maxing out a core on my cpu.. Just started happening today out of nowhere.
[04:19] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: ubuntu version? upgrade or clean?
[04:20] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: 16.04 clean, been running for weeks with no problems until tonight.
[04:20] <lotuspsychje> hmmz
[04:21] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: you too try a previous kernel, see if that sorts
[04:21] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: sounds like a new !bug
[04:21] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: thanks man, i will
[04:24] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: any luck?
[04:26] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: im about to hit a warm steamy shower :p
[04:26] <lotuspsychje> have a good night if i dont see you anymore
[04:27] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: nope.. still just maxing out one core. weird
[04:27] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I meet ya here ... bout me getting off place .
[04:27] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: ok i advise a new bug mate
[04:28] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: explain the whole storry, add logs, saying tested several kernel, perhaps also try a 4.6 wily kernel
[04:28] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: to make the devs work easier
[04:29] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: thanks i will going to sudo chmod -x /usr/bin/history-daemon for now to disable it
[04:29] <lotuspsychje> dax: wich channel do factoid request spam in?
[04:30] <dax> lotuspsychje: I don't understand the question.
[04:30] <lotuspsychje> dax: if we request a factoid trigger, wich channel does the ops get messaged?
[04:31] <lotuspsychje> dax: just wondering cause we had 2 requests recently, if you guys received correctly
[04:31] <dax> if you submit a factoid suggestion, it goes to #ubuntu-ops if you talked to ubottu, or #ubuntu-irc for the ubot clones
[04:32] <lotuspsychje> dax: can you re-call those requests to see if received well?
[04:32] <lotuspsychje> or only live?
[04:32] <dax> it just echoes to channel, there's no further functionality
[04:32] <dax> both channels are publicly logged
[04:33] <lotuspsychje> dax: so if nobody was online at that time of request, they could be lost?
[04:33] <dax> if nobody reads scrollback, which at least one person makes a habit of doing
[04:33] <lotuspsychje> dax: can i test one with you right now?
[04:33] <dax> *shrug* sure
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> incomming
[04:34] <dax> 04:34 < ubottu/#ubuntu-ops> In ubottu, lotuspsychje said: !no, !apache2 <reply> Apache is the most commonly used Web server on Linux systems. See how to install on 16.04 : https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/httpd.html
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> great
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> would be nice if there was a callback system
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> i dont wanna end up spamming ops channel right :p
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> dax: ducasse had a recent zfs request also
[04:39] <dax> apache one done, I still know zero about zfs
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> cool
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> dax: ill let ducasse message you then when he's awake?
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> or highlight?
[04:41] <dax> < dax>  lotuspsychje: zfs stuff is probably best off going to another op, i don't know anything about it or support it :c
[04:41] <lotuspsychje> dax: ok, ill tell him to request on more active moment then
[04:43] <dax> *nod*. I just pulled it from my logs and reminded -ops about it also
[04:43] <lotuspsychje> great tnx!
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> dax: we still need a good !systemd replacement also, for users asking us for proper start/stop commands
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> dax: all around systemd usage
[04:45] <dax> systemctl start foo, systemctl stop foo, systemctl enable foo, systemctl disable foo
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> yep
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> dax: this any good? http://www.howtogeek.com/216454/how-to-manage-systemd-services-on-a-linux-system/
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> with handy pics
[04:50] <dax> it suffers from that silly wordpress behavior of converting -- to –
[04:50] <lotuspsychje> yeah with ads also
[04:51] <dax> the digitalocean one is fine imho
[04:51] <dax> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-systemctl-to-manage-systemd-services-and-units
[04:51] <lotuspsychje> dax: i think oerheks missed something on that one
[04:52] <dax> 2016-05-16 16:14:55     < OerHeks>      nice, but i miss systemd-analyze and the bootchart " systemd-analyze plot > filename.svg  "
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: you still got your url found
[04:52] <dax> meh, not gonna get the complete guide to everything systemd in one command
[04:52] <dax> for the people looking to do basic service management, the DO guide's plenty
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> ok ok
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> lets do the ocean one then
[04:53] <dax> !search systemd
[04:53]  * dax grins at the -ot one
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> lol
[04:53] <dax> !systemd-#ubuntu-offtopic
[04:53] <dax> anyways
[04:53] <dax> !systemd
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> this one is good for the converting from upstart
[04:54] <dax> !systemd
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> great!
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> thats gonna solve alot of trouble :p
[04:55] <dax> unfortunately, I learned systemd by reading every one of Lennart's "systemd for administrators" posts, which is quite a bit too much reading to suggest in #ubuntu :)
[04:55] <dax> anyways, be back in a bit
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> yeah, and i didnt came across a decent ubuntu wiki yet neither
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> kk tnx again
[04:58] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I have several links in respect to systemd . one in partitcular ? My memory is some kind of bad .. why I keep a data base .
[05:30] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: trigger got fixxed nvm mate :p
[05:32] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Ain't it wonderful when things get fixed :)
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[06:05] <Bashing-om> Eyes they be a crossin, time to call it ; Good nite .
[06:58] <ducasse> morning, all.
[10:49] <BluesKaj> howdy all
[10:57] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[10:58] <ducasse> afternoon :)
[10:59] <BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje, ducasse
[10:59] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj , ducasse
[10:59] <lotuspsychje> hi EriC^^
[11:00] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[11:00] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1583114
[11:00] <lotuspsychje> they ask me to put in upstream bug?
[11:01] <lotuspsychje> what has gnome have to do in this?
[11:02] <TJ-> Gnome is the host project for NetworkManager
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> ah
[11:02] <TJ-> Your bug will be good company with some of mine :D
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: so make the exact same bug to that gnome page?
[11:02] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: if you're being told its an upstream issue, yes.
[11:03] <lotuspsychje> kk
[11:06] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: wich categorie would nm fall in?
[11:07] <TJ-> NetworkManager :)
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> and subcategory?
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> api, distro specific?
[11:08] <TJ-> Product: NetworkManager Component: Wi-Fo
[11:08] <TJ-> Wi-Fo
[11:08] <TJ-> Wi-Fi !!
[11:11] <Switches> Wi-Fo sounds better though.
[11:12] <lotuspsychje> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=766786
[11:12] <lotuspsychje> there we go
[11:13] <EriC^^> TJ-: a real teaser norux's issue
[11:13] <lotuspsychje> lets hope my wifo gets fixxed soon
[11:14] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, if you have a problem with nm widget, just use "nmcli con up "
[11:14] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: what does that do?
[11:15] <BluesKaj> oops dunno if it works for wifi ,
[11:15] <lotuspsychje> well i dont have this every boot
[11:15] <lotuspsychje> weird situation
[11:16] <BluesKaj> i used it a while to connect via ethernet when the nm wasn't working/autoconnecting
[11:17] <BluesKaj> nmcli in the terminal was handy
[11:17] <lotuspsychje> this bug should even exist :p
[11:18] <lotuspsychje> should not
[11:29] <TJ-> BluesKaj: yes, nmcli does everything
[11:30] <TJ-> We've had to fall back to using it instead of nm-applet due to all the bugs that are yet to be fixed
[11:30] <TJ-> To get the list of wifi networks "nmcli device wifi list"
[11:31] <BluesKaj> yeah TJ- used to connect to vpn , with vpn server uuid , worked perfectly
[11:31] <BluesKaj> used it
[11:31] <TJ-> you can use the connection name with "... id "<name>"
[11:32] <TJ-> easier than typing uuids :)
[11:32] <BluesKaj> copy and paste works :-)
[11:32] <lotuspsychje> im gonna wait until this fixxes by itself tru update
[11:32] <TJ-> cheating :)
[11:32] <BluesKaj> just use nmcli com to list available connections
[11:33] <TJ-> I'm in a hotel right now, and use it to bring up the wifi and the vpn
[11:33] <BluesKaj> com=con
[11:33] <TJ-> the "nmcli device wifi list" is pretty colours ... even shows signal strength using ASCII blocks
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: dax requested your zfs trigger again to the other ops
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: requestes triggers dont get stored, is why
[11:35] <lotuspsychje> and we have 1 new: !apache2 for xenial and 1 edited !systemd
[11:38] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: ok, i'll try it again.
[11:38] <lotuspsychje> !zfs
[11:38] <lotuspsychje> !apache2
[11:38] <lotuspsychje> !systemd
[11:38] <BluesKaj> TJ-, my laptop uses only the 2.4 ghz band , does the wifi have better reach at the lower or higher end of that band,? ch 10 barely cuts it ifrom my patio in the back
[11:39] <TJ-> higher frequency, less obstacle penetration
[11:39] <ducasse> maybe i should rather add a small note on the zfs wiki regarding the zfs on / thing...
[11:39] <TJ-> but in the same band you shouldn't be able to notice a difference
[11:41] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah could be usefull more
[11:42] <BluesKaj> TJ-, yeah that's what I thought..maybe I'll drop the router to ch4 , ch6 is crowded due to the router default
[11:43] <TJ-> BluesKaj: in 2.4GHz band only (in North Amaerica) channels 1, 6 and 11 are non-overlapping (assuming standard 20MHz wide channels)
[11:43] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: ok, i'll join the wiki team and suggest an edit.
[11:44] <TJ-> BluesKaj: if 802.11gn is in use using HT channels, they're 40MHz wide, so there's even more collision
[11:56] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[11:59] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: nice!
[11:59] <lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
[12:03] <pauljw> hi lotuspsychje
[12:08] <EriC^^> hi pauljw
[12:08] <pauljw> hey EriC^^ , how are you today?
[12:08] <EriC^^> good thanks you?
[12:08] <pauljw> so far so good :)
[12:09] <EriC^^> :)
[12:41] <pauljw> brb
[14:53] <dax> any WinUSB alternatives for 16.04? http://onetransistor.blogspot.com/2016/04/install-winusb-on-ubuntu-1604-lts.html isn't supportable :(
[14:53] <dax> (as far as I know the answer is "no")
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> ouch
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> i didnt test winusb on xenial yet
[14:53] <dax> tl;dr: new wxwidgets breaks it
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> too bad winusb was neat for win iso's
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> there is also multisystem, but not sure it supports windows iso's
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/multiboot-create-a-multiboot-usb-from-linux/
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> dax: its official site shows win icons
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> but only tested ubuntu iso's myself
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> i had 6 iso's on 1 usb with multisystem pretty neat
[15:00] <dax> that installation script is quite something
[15:00] <lotuspsychje> yeah its a bit dirty i know
[15:06] <dax> it's getting to the point where I just wanna say "if you want to make a Windows LiveUSB, go find a Windows computer" and make this ##windows' problem :|
[15:08] <lotuspsychje> yeah i didnt use it for quiet a time winusb
[15:09] <lotuspsychje> but in some cases its handy of course
[17:27] <ducasse> ...and another spam source is born. *sigh*
[17:27] <nacc> just so i understand it, postfixadmin just provides an interface to administer postfix, right?
[17:28] <nacc> that's just the MTA part of it
[17:28] <daftykins> pass
[17:28] <daftykins> #ubuntu-server might respond
[17:28] <OerHeks> Now i understand he just wants a client on his server that fetches his gmail/whatevermail ?
[17:28] <ducasse> nacc: i think so, i always manage postfix with vi and postconf.
[17:28] <daftykins> the name is pretty suggestive though ;)
[17:29] <daftykins> !info postfixadmin
[17:29] <nacc> OerHeks: no he wants the whole thing, all running on his server
[17:29] <nacc> "whole thing" => full e-mail stack
[17:30] <OerHeks> oh, but we need more email-zombie servers .. no?
[17:30] <nacc> heh
[17:30] <ducasse> i wonder if it is really a good idea to tell these people about these tools.
[17:31] <ducasse> email admin'ing scares me :)
[17:31] <daftykins> not really, anything that makes learning to perform a server setup role properly is misleading users into thinking doing something is easier than it is
[17:31] <daftykins> er i failed big time on that sentence
[17:31] <daftykins> "hand holding programs are bad, mmk"
[17:32] <ducasse> "friends don't let friends use webmin"
[17:35] <daftykins> well you can't on debian distros anymore anyway, it's advised against due to not working with the package management setup
[17:36] <ducasse> good :)
[17:37] <daftykins> doesn't stop folks trying to run it :(
[17:39] <ducasse> you are probably right. at least it provides a learning experience when it breaks.
[17:39] <daftykins> only if they join the dots perhaps :)
[17:46] <DArqueBishop> ducasse: you wouldn't believe how many times I saw people coming into #squirrelmail or #roundcube with problems, and have to be told that a) their IMAP or SMTP server is throwing the error they're whining about, and b) despite was the vast majority of HOWTOs would tell you, setting up a properly configured mail server is arcane and difficult.
[17:46] <DArqueBishop> s/despite was/despite what/
[17:47] <ducasse> oh, i would :) admin'ing mail *properly* is probably one of the hardest services to run, imo.
[17:47] <daftykins> i tend to push people toward google apps or similar if they're thinking of going down the self-run route
[17:48] <DArqueBishop> Agreed wholeheartedly.
[17:48] <daftykins> life is too short to be dealing with that kind of stuff
[17:48] <DArqueBishop> I've been running my own personal mail environment for fifteen years or so, but it's not for the faint of heart (or those without a hint of masochism).
[17:50] <ducasse> ..or the totally paranoid. i kinda like control of my mail.
[17:50] <ducasse> (..or _for_ the...)
[17:51] <daftykins> how do you handle the moments of downtime required for rebooting etc?
[17:52] <ducasse> i have two :)
[17:53] <daftykins> heh
[17:54] <ducasse> it's not really a huge problem, it's soooo low traffic, and the dc the primary is in has good links to the outside world.
[17:55] <daftykins> ah ok
[17:56] <daftykins> i just sort of imagine the moments a machine is unavailable, someone sending an email and it being lost forever :)
[17:56] <DArqueBishop> daftykins: that's why you have a secondary MX somewhere. ;-)
[17:56] <ducasse> no, it goes to the secondary mx.
[17:56] <ducasse> ninja'd.
[17:56] <daftykins> that adds a bit more to your average first time user's plans
[17:57] <DArqueBishop> Even most MTAs will wait a specified amount of time (like a few days) before it gives up and marks a message as undeliverable.
[17:59] <ducasse> right, it tries the mx records in descending order and waits for a while before trying them again. and so on until the message times out.
[17:59] <ducasse> aiui.
[18:14] <ducasse> does anyone think there would be an interest in a yubikey page on the ubuntu wiki?
[18:16] <daftykins> can't hurt, there really nothing as-is?
[18:18] <ducasse> not on the wiki, the info that is relevant to ubuntu is scattered in a zillion blogs etc.
[18:18] <OerHeks> ducasse, yes, if it isn't there already
[18:18] <OerHeks> howto use, howto use with ubuntu=one atc
[18:19]  * OerHeks puts on reading glasses .. wait
[18:27] <ducasse> i've been setting mine up for ssh, gpg etc, and needed to piece together info from several places. just might be nice with one page that covers the basics, i thought.
[18:31] <OerHeks> ducasse, you know yubico team? https://launchpad.net/~yubico/+archive/ubuntu/stable  and https://developers.yubico.com/yubico-pam/Manuals/pam_yubico.8.html
[18:32] <OerHeks> ducasse, but there are many types of auth, Blue FIDO U2F and others
[18:34] <ducasse> yes, the yubikey supports a lot of different standards etc, it was a bit confusing at first figuring out what to use. still, some things like setting it up for ssh and gpg could be nice to have on the wiki.
[18:35] <OerHeks> linux action show jul 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3D1gqXPW98
[18:36] <OerHeks> and this url i have stored in my bookmarks http://seabre.github.io/blog/2015/10/17/local-two-factor-authentication-with-u2f-on-ubuntu-14-dot-04/ end.
[18:40] <ducasse> u2f is nice, hope firefox gets built-in support soon.
[18:41] <OerHeks> i would like to see a list on that wiki what service uses what auth version
[18:42] <OerHeks> oh, you did find https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSO/FAQs/2FA#Yubikey ?
[18:45] <ducasse> i hadn't noticed that you need to join a team to enable it, i'll do that tomorrow :)
[18:46] <ducasse> yubico has a list of various services and the protocols they support. most seem to use u2f now.
[18:47] <ducasse> a few, like lastpass, use the yubico otp, and there are otp or challenge-response plugins for some other password managers, like keepass.