[07:26] <cub> I agree with zequence on the video thing. We want to reach new users, show there is another way than windows or mac os for creativity. Hiding the tutorials in an obscure place does not help that. If we want to reach people youtube is it. Maybe a far reach second Google + but I suppose Google will kill off that service soon enough.
[07:29] <cub> We could use both archive.org and youtube, unless it will provide double work as formats differ or something. If we choose only one, I think archive.org is the wrong way to go for our purpose.
[07:46] <sakrecoer> zequence, cub: i say we do both. archive.org is not an obscure place. its the last rampart of ethical free content hosting.
[07:47] <sakrecoer> i am very reluctant to let youtube aka google use ubuntu studio as a recruiting team for their services
[07:48] <sakrecoer> when people search for documentation, archive search results get higher up on every other serach engine then google.
[07:49] <cub> sakrecoer: i rest my case. ;) If the last rampart of ethical free content is not an obscure place, i don't know what is. Seriously though, if you are a new or potential user of linux and Ubuntu Studio. I think it's very unlikely someone will start looking at archive.org for help. Sure, if we link from the homepage but if they are anything like my friends they google or search on youtube.
[07:49] <sakrecoer> cub: n0b will first look at our website or a search engine. which renders the argument of "obscurity" obsolete
[07:49] <sakrecoer> the internet is an obscure place :)
[07:50] <sakrecoer> obvisouly, we we host it on both, youtube links will show first. way before our own website or wiki
[07:50] <sakrecoer> *if we host it o both youtube and archive
[07:50] <cub> I'm not so sure. my experience from customer service is that people try google before the actual site or help pages
[07:50] <sakrecoer> and google will tell them to go to archive
[07:50] <cub> yes, both we'll catch most
[07:50] <sakrecoer> unless we put it on youtube also
[07:51] <sakrecoer> then google will say: "come to me you little computer illetarate n00b, buy a chrome book!"
[07:51] <sakrecoer> :D
[07:51] <cub> but if only one, I think archive.org is a great idea but not so good for reaching people. Other than people who are already savvy enough to figure out stuff on their own, hence no need for tutorials.
[07:52] <sakrecoer> how is it harder to wathc a video on archive.org than youtube? :D
[07:54] <cub> it's hard to find and people are used to certain platforms
[07:55] <sakrecoer> i don't buy that argument, why is it harder to google archive.org than youtube? obviously, like i wrote: if we host the content on both youtube and archive, people will go to youtube, because google will prioritize it.
[07:56] <cub> No, people will you youtube because people are used to youtube. 
[07:56] <sakrecoer> youtube will also serve our users with a sweet windows10 commercial while they "wait" for their content to load :D it is up to us to make it easily reached.
[07:56] <cub> what's the issue with youtube? It's not like we force anyone to buy a chromebook or even register for an account?
[07:58] <sakrecoer> want to monetize the tutorials? that is my issue: commercials, very limited choice of licenses, bad ethics, evil cookies, tracking, population control database. is that something we want to promote? using youtube is promoting youtube
[07:58] <cub> There's a reason Gnu is not bigger today. It's called marketing.
[07:58] <sakrecoer> hahahaha
[07:58] <sakrecoer> not big? gnu? hehe... maybe stallman isn't very big, yes :D
[07:58] <cub> no we shouldn't monetize. I don't think we're even allowed to monteize anything related to the Ubuntu brand
[07:59] <cub> well promoting Ubuntu Studio on media noone uses is just waste of time imho
[08:00] <cub> In that case we should host all videos on our own site.
[08:01] <cub> and people will watch all un-official ubuntu studio videos on youtube instead.
[08:01] <sakrecoer> its not promoting it on media that nobody knows, its using a video host to inbed in our homepage
[08:01] <sakrecoer> also, if great marketing is putting windows10 commerial at the intro of our tutorials, then i'm sorry but i don't think it is that great
[08:02] <sakrecoer> fact is, we have 0 videos on youtube, but people are still using ubuntu studio
[08:02] <cub> but that's not the case.
[08:02] <sakrecoer> what is not the case cub?
[08:03] <cub> there will not be a win10 commercial at the beginning of every ubuntu studio video
[08:04] <cub> yes there are still people using ubuntu studio. But if there were more help availble where tutorials are a great way, there might be much more users. Or happier users.
[08:04] <sakrecoer> can you garantee that cub? also i think that it is the point with using creative common licenses: people can copy and redistribute. i'm way more comfortable with people uploading our videos to their channel then we doing it ourselves. or are we affraid of looosing a chance to get monetization on our tutorials? i realy don't get this eagerness of having stuff on youtube.
[08:04] <cub> and there are loads of other videos both using ubuntu studio or showing how to use Ardour or kdenlive
[08:05] <cub> sakrecoer: there is no chance of us monetizing on videos or anything related to the ubuntu studio brand. We are not allowed.
[08:06] <sakrecoer> it was a rethorical question. i know that. so what is the point? if people think they should be on youtube, believe me, theyw ill upload them. archive has a "download video button"
[08:06] <cub> I want stuff on youtube to reach users and potential users. Hiding it away on some maybe grand ethical place might feel good inside but my main point is to reach the actual users
[08:07] <sakrecoer> also, it WILL be windOSx commercial at the begning, unless we tag it with "cute cats, puppies, aget slim fast" then it will be commecrial for underware and whiskas :D
[08:07] <cub> that's why I said "do both"
[08:07] <sakrecoer> yeah, i say, both is good, but it will render the archive version obsolete.
[08:07] <cub> why?
[08:07] <cub> as you said, if they don't want cat commercials they can go to archive.org
[08:07] <sakrecoer> because google promotes itself first. i'm yet to read one tangible argument against using archive
[08:08] <cub> but your argument has been that the users would find the videos thorugh the us homepage
[08:08] <cub> and not using google.
[08:08] <cub> because google is evil.
[08:08] <sakrecoer> if they use google, they will find archive, unless the same video is on youtube
[08:09] <cub> if you don't think we have an oppotunity to reach more people by using youtube is a tangible argument, then I don't know how convice you.
[08:10] <sakrecoer> i say users will do that for us: put those tutorials on youtube. it will probably give us far more reach than we could by ourselves.
[08:11] <sakrecoer> we would reach 32 users on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntustudiotube
[08:11] <sakrecoer> i mean directly
[08:11] <sakrecoer> all those that aren't subscirbed will have to websearch
[08:12] <cub> subscribers doesn't equal viewers
[08:12] <sakrecoer> so say 8 then :D
[08:12] <cub> web search or youtube search or related videos
[08:12] <cub> do you only watch videos you have subscribed to?
[08:13] <cub> and if we actually posted some videos, both viewers and subscribers would go up
[08:13] <cub> having 32 subscribers to a dead account is quite good.
[08:13] <sakrecoer> go up for youtube, yes.
[08:14] <sakrecoer> anyways, if you guys all want to have stuff there, fine :) but i'm not posting it myself there :D
[08:14] <sakrecoer> also, the website should embed the archive version.
[08:14] <cub> it depends what our objective is
[08:15] <sakrecoer> our objective is amongst others to be an alternative.
[08:15] <cub> are we going more GNU, debian, Stallman or do we want to grow the community?
[08:17] <sakrecoer> haha! we keep going FOSS, just like we have all these years
[08:17] <sakrecoer> i find that question of yours to be both unfair and besides the point cub
[08:19] <sakrecoer> should i be ashamed to care about the integrity of our user base? i don't think using an alternative is risking our growth. on the contrary. most of our users come to us because they also want to break with the way things are taken for granted today, such as "you need facebook and youtube to exist in cyberspace"
[08:20] <sakrecoer> i understand it is hard to break with the for having been there...
[08:20] <sakrecoer> but someone has got to do it.
[08:22] <sakrecoer> using platforms with recomendation systems is actualy conterproductive. as you say, there will be recomended videos, and lots of distraction arround every video up there. including things that will carry our viewers away.
[08:23] <sakrecoer> consolidating our own channels is not = going dark. it is guiding the users on a red thread
[08:23] <sakrecoer> google search will not omit our archive videops just because we don't put them on youtube.
[08:23] <cub> I care about integrity. But I also compare what's really at stake and what is the gain.
[08:24] <sakrecoer> please do cub, i'm reading :)
[08:24] <sakrecoer> what is at stake? and what is the gain?
[08:24] <cub> I also think Ubuntu Studio would need a clear vision and purpose which should be revisited at least every year. If we try to be everything for everyone I think we will struggle.
[08:27] <sakrecoer> well... if something is everything for everyone (except that integrity detail) that would be youtube :D anyways, what is at stake and what is the gain?
[08:27] <cub> we are not putting users into any danger of their minds or computers by having videos on youtube. But we reach millions more. It's not like we would use a service which incorporated spyware when downloading the video, such as sourceforge
[08:28] <cub> nothing is at stake. That's my point. there is no danger with using youtube imho unless you're afraid they will start watching a tutorial on Ardour, see a win10 commercial and think Wait no I should by a new computer with windows 10 on it! I don't think that's really happening.
[08:29] <sakrecoer> well... i beg to differ, what do you think the cookie youtube puts in your browser is, if not spyware?
[08:29] <cub> Well this is Ubuntu Studio, not Tails Studio ...
[08:30] <sakrecoer> sure, but it is also an ethical alternative to everything that google, microsoft and apple stands for
[08:30] <cub> with your reasoning we should not be a part of the Ubuntu family at all, because Canonical is also evil
[08:30] <sakrecoer> why don't we put the videos on microsofts video platform too? i mean, i for one think we should either be on well thought channels or ALL of them
[08:30] <sakrecoer> that is you putting a reasoning in my head though, cub
[08:31] <cub> I don't know about a microsoft platform
[08:32] <cub> If we are going true ethical we need to re-evaluate a lot of the packages we include today.
[08:32] <sakrecoer> .... and then i am the extreme one ? :D it seems we talk besides eachothers point....
[08:33] <cub> which I think might be the wrong way to go. If it gets too hard to use people will revert to alternatives or back to windows and mac
[08:33] <sakrecoer> nobody is making it _harder_ because a video is not on youtube. that is the illusion that youtube and facebook thrives on: no hands no chocolate :D
[08:33] <sakrecoer> if someone misses the tutorials on youtube, they will put them there
[08:34] <sakrecoer> and it will have the same impact as if we did it ourselves.
[08:34] <cub> Well, I think it's a bit double-sided to argue ethical decisions on the one hand, but not on the other.
[08:34] <sakrecoer> but sure, go ahead and upload them.
[08:34] <sakrecoer> we should really be _creating_ those videos right now instead of having this conversation ;)
[08:35] <cub> I don't think it's the same thing to have a decidated Ubuntu Studio channel than if people upload US videos randomly
[08:35] <sakrecoer> cub, you are misseterpreting me to the fullest. i can't control what people do. if they want to see things on youtube sure! i do it too. i just think we should stay on the freeculture side of things
[08:35] <cub> well, at work I can use IRC while working. Creating a video is much harder.
[08:37] <sakrecoer> if something is working as we do, and really needs promotion, htat would be archive.org. that is all i say, except from what i wrote in those blueprints: that archive licensing model is far more flexible
[08:39] <sakrecoer> now, if anybody in the team thinks it is mportant to have them videos on youtube, please go ahead and take the intiativ and do it. i won't stop it, but neither will i assist in the process of promoting them, since i will be busy spreading the archive link instead :D
[08:47] <sakrecoer> autumna: i thought it would be easier to split up the "creating video tutorials" into the different tasks it actauly represents. but i'm open to suggestions as of how to put it otherwise.
[08:49] <sakrecoer> not open too long tho, sine feature freeze was yesterday :D
[08:55] <sakrecoer> autumna: oh... you are talking about the website blueprint? i didn't do that one actauly. just linked the old one to the new umbrella.
[08:56] <sakrecoer> not sure i get your point... the blueprints aren't supposed to be a howto do things afaik, they are just a list of the steps that need to be accomplished.
[08:56] <sakrecoer> autumna: but the whiteboard can host a more detailed description, idealy a link to a wiki page. let me put your excellent wiki page i there :)
[09:03] <sakrecoer> .. already there :)
[09:11] <sakrecoer> however autumna, you should be able to edit https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/website-overhaul-post-xenial since you are a member of ~ubuntustudio-website. at this point, preferably to assign yourself to any of the workitems or update the status. :)
[09:45] <autumna> sakrecoer: I wasn't sure if I should be touching it. my point is that steps for content needs to be determined based on how the content is shaped. E.g. will we really need a download page? maybe all the information of download will end up being in front page. etc
[09:45] <autumna> either way I'll tweak it a little later today
[09:50] <sakrecoer> autumna: nice. that blueprint has been there for a while, so it might need some updating yes, although it is kindof late. But go on :) i'm just mentioning time so that we don't end up tuning blueprints instead of actualy doing that website overhaul :D
[09:50] <autumna> no that's fair. its also that I am not certain if how important it will be to follow the blueprints
[09:54] <sakrecoer> autumna: its more of a formality i believe :) but it also serves to have everyone on the same page, that is why i'd rather not see it being edited for ever :D
[09:54] <autumna> sakrecoer: that's fair.
[09:56] <sakrecoer> :) anyways, we do have the "artisticaly inclined" card to pull
[09:57]  * sakrecoer wrote that right after pulling the http://www.soundarchive.online/whip-is-lashed-twice-2-1-10053-mp3-audio-sound-free-download-noises-activity/
[10:05] <sakrecoer> y'all: this https://bugs.launchpad.net/trusty-backports/+bug/1584930
[10:05] <sakrecoer> it is open to the team right?
[10:06] <sakrecoer> i'm thinking about firing an email to the devel-list to gather some testing, but maybe it is some other teams duty?
[10:07] <sakrecoer> i read it like an open invitation :)
[10:40] <sakrecoer> re: video channels. following the "lets gather people" logic, i think we should also have a vimeo channel
[10:40] <sakrecoer> ^^ zequence cub 
[10:44] <cub> Yeah, I agree.
[10:47]  * sakrecoer high-fives cub!
[10:47] <sakrecoer> lets be everywhere!
[10:48] <sakrecoer> i am creating a branch in ubuntusttudio-documentaiton for video tutorials
[10:49]  * sakrecoer hopes zequence wants to do a catchy well harmonically thought and put 3-4 second audio jingle for it
[11:02] <sakrecoer> https://vimeo.com/ubuntustudio
[11:28] <zequence> sakrecoer: You know that youtube videos will be Creative Commons, right?
[11:28] <zequence> If someone wants to post tutorial videos, they need to do it in all places.
[11:30] <zequence> I'm not against either archive.org, or vimeo.com
[11:30] <zequence> But, from my POW, youtube is where people are most likely to find our stuff, even if they aren't using Ubuntu Studio
[11:30] <zequence> So, at least there
[11:31] <zequence> Then, archive.org is a nice alternative to all those who want to be Richard Stallman strict
[11:31] <zequence> Beyond that, it starts to get a bit tedious having to do so many uploads and maintain so many places
[11:32] <zequence> sakrecoer: I was discussing with cfhowlett one day about maybe creating a user contest for the audio part
[11:51] <sakrecoer> zequence, cub: i realy don't want to read those "stallman" alegories no more, thank you. a part from that, yeah, POW is a POW. It is a fact that it "is most likely to be found on youtube", because everybody goes with that logic. you may compare me with a freesoftware taliban, i still wont believe in the logic behind the MS-networks: i'm too much of a countercurrent DIY guy :D they only work becuase people go there. doing diffrerently is a 
[12:02] <cub> sakrecoer: doing differently is a...?
[12:02] <sakrecoer> ..dirty job
[12:04] <cub> but yeah, if your reasoning is that google, youtube, MS, etc is evil and we should teach people better, then I will pull the Stallman card. I think there is way in the middle and being pragmatic.
[12:04] <sakrecoer> please cub.... stop simplifying my point to good vs. evil
[12:05] <sakrecoer> i can accept that i'm not expressing myself well, never the less, this discussion is meaningless
[12:05] <sakrecoer> lets create those tutorials, then we will advise
[12:06] <sakrecoer> i'll let anyone who wants upload wherever they want, heck: the one thing i will unnegiciable with is the mandatory creative common license
[12:09] <cub> you don't like creative commons?
[12:09] <sakrecoer> ..... do you realy think so? i love it. i say i wont let anyone upload it under another license then a creative common license...
[12:10] <sakrecoer> my point in this issue is: ubuntu promotes freeculture, youtbe dosen't, archive does.
[12:10] <sakrecoer> we are in a positino were we CAN make a difference, lets use it.
[12:11] <sakrecoer> now if nobody think that is good idea: fine. lets do it the mainstrream way. end of discussion
[12:12] <cub> I didn't understand "unnegiciable"
[12:12] <sakrecoer> i apologize, i ment unnegociable
[12:12] <sakrecoer> i wont negociate using another license then creative commons
[12:12] <cub> google thought so too...;)
[12:12] <sakrecoer> youtube offer such a license, so fine!
[12:15] <sakrecoer> yeah eventualy initialy they did, and we are ubuntu studio ;) i won't say no more than this: stallman is cool, google is dool
[13:16] <zequence> sakrecoer: I'm all for archive.org, not because of licensing, but because I know a few people will prefer to go there, and it's a good thing to promote
[13:17] <zequence> But, not being present on youtube is kind of counter productive for this OS
[13:17] <zequence> After all, the youtube videos will have a Creative Commons license
[13:17] <zequence> So, the videos themselves are free
[13:17] <zequence> I don't know much about the ads, since I never see them
[13:18] <zequence> Don't know how that works
[13:18] <zequence> I would rather they were not there, of course. And, I would rather most people were using something else
[13:18] <zequence> But, then what is the argument for using Vimeo?
[13:20] <sakrecoer> the same argument as for using youtube, minus the commercials...
[13:21] <sakrecoer> ^^ zequence
[13:21] <zequence> Don't think vimeo compares anywhere near Youtube, tbh.
[13:21] <zequence> I'm not against that either, just wondering what purpose it would fill to upload to both youtube and vimeo
[13:22] <sakrecoer> well, why only to youtube? :D its a moment 22 :D
[13:22] <zequence> No, that is not what I said
[13:22] <zequence> I said, why to vimeo, if we would already be uploading to both youtube and archive.org
[13:22] <sakrecoer> me neither...
[13:23] <sakrecoer> all i am saying is that archive is closer to ubuntu philopsphy than youtube
[13:23] <zequence> Sure
[13:23] <sakrecoer> but everyone keeps syaing that "if we don't have youtube we dissapear"
[13:23] <zequence> And, as we have already both agreed on, we can do both
[13:23] <zequence> But, why vimeo?
[13:23] <sakrecoer> why youtube?
[13:23] <sakrecoer> its the same question
[13:23] <sakrecoer> ask frenh people what video site they use the most for example.... it will probably be daily motion
[13:24] <sakrecoer> *french
[13:24] <sakrecoer> if all we want is  the youtube "commmunity" , why exclude the vimeo community?
[13:25] <sakrecoer> i mean, websearching is what it is...
[13:26] <sakrecoer> the argument in favour of youtube is: "we might benefit from the massive yet very random crowd to find us by well... random"
[13:26] <sakrecoer> so we should be everywhere really...
[13:26] <zequence> Well, because of the pretty much overwhelming usage that youtube has, it would be very foolish to not use that. We could use 10 different sites, but with this small team (and, yet no videos, but that will change) you just have to draw a line somewhere for practical purposes
[13:27] <autumna> archive.org is great for long term and backup and it is similar to our philosophy, (I am curious through how easy it is to update the videos). youtube is where a lot of the tutorials are so good for findability
[13:27] <autumna> vimeo is smaller, but is actually quite important to visual arts/film community, and there definitely are tutorials/etc there so it is relevant and a somewhat distinct community in our case
[13:28] <sakrecoer> autumna: very easy to update files in archive.
[13:28] <sakrecoer> no need to break the url like youtube
[13:28] <autumna> I would strongly suggest pulling the line there through. :D 3 is plenty. :D 
[13:28] <sakrecoer> me too, 3 is good
[13:28] <autumna> sakrecoer: that is great. I wasn't sure about that part. 
[13:28] <sakrecoer> and it is not that much work really... upload and copypaste the text we agree on
[13:30] <autumna> zequence: I assume that vimeo isn't as visible in the audio community? 
[13:30] <zequence> autumna: Maybe not in all. I have used it from time to time
[13:30] <sakrecoer> zequence: but regarding the relevancy of staying out of the youtube crowd: it is really a matter of luck. people searching for an ubuntustudio tutorial is alreeady an ubuntustudio user. i doubt someone looking for womething else would think "aha, this system is great", at best they will be interested about the software that the tutorial is covering
[13:31] <zequence> sakrecoer: Actually, I don't buy that at all. People will find our tutorials no matter if they know what Ubuntu Studio is
[13:31] <zequence> And, they will do it both from googling, and from searching on Youtube
[13:31] <sakrecoer> will they look at it?
[13:31] <autumna> sakrecoer: one idea is to have a wiki page of links so that we know what is uploaded where, and we can keep track of them. 
[13:31] <sakrecoer> autumna: good idea!
[13:31] <autumna> (and to use ubuntustudio accounts so that as new volunteers come and go, people can change items) 
[13:32] <zequence> Of course they will look at it, if they find something interesing in it. And, there are many reasons why they would want to be
[13:32] <sakrecoer> i see no specific reason why youtube or vimeo would be better suited to expand our userbase. but i'm not against using it
[13:32] <sakrecoer> i'd like you to explain to me, zequence, how youtube will make more people use ubuntu studio :D
[13:33] <sakrecoer> but another day really :) haha! sorry, i'm not buying the youtube is vital thing...
[13:33] <sakrecoer> and you guys don't seem to buy my "youtube is irrelevant" thing so...
[13:33] <zequence> sakrecoer: I will, some other time. Seems pretty self evident to me, but it will probably take too long time, if I really need to be thorough explaining why the most popular video site out there will be the most easy to use for the most people.
[13:34] <autumna> btw I do agree with zequence in that I have definitely found new software through tutorials for other software. having quality content can bring people to the platform. (this in our case is especially true since we talk about having tutorials on workflow using the software. so I cna imagine bringing people who use ardour but not ubuntu studio in :D)
[13:34]  * zequence is going back to studying for an exam on monday
[13:34] <sakrecoer> yeah, sure... i guess i thiknk "internet" where you guys think "specific network"
[13:34] <autumna> sakrecoer: yikes good luck zequence
[13:34] <autumna> errmt
[13:35] <autumna> sakrecoer: as I was trying to say as I got distracted ;D I do see what you say from a philosophy point of view, but it doesn't hurt to reach out to a wider range of people, and video hopping from video to video is definitely a way for Ubuntu studio to be discovered
[13:36] <autumna> :D
[13:36] <autumna> we can even clearly label youtube and vimeo as mirrors, linking people back to the website and archive org videos as first choice to subscribe
[13:36] <autumna> ;)
[13:37] <sakrecoer> :)
[13:37] <sakrecoer> good! can we all go back to creating the content now? :D
[13:38] <sakrecoer> <3 sorry if i get all excited. i'm burning for these questions :)
[13:38] <zequence> sakrecoer: Oh, just wanted to add one more thing. I mean, we could have archive.org as the first choice when linking to tutorials from our website. From there, it's nice to do that. The youtube channel will almost certainly live its own life anyway
[13:39] <sakrecoer> perfect middle ground autumna ! :)
[13:39] <zequence> Oh, autumna had the same idea there
[13:39] <autumna> I love these questions. <3 (and what zequence said as well. -lol)
[13:39] <sakrecoer> oh sorry! haha
[13:40] <sakrecoer> i ment great midle ground _zequence_
[13:40] <zequence> sakrecoer: No, autumna was first
[13:40] <autumna> it is actually safer to have subscription be through rss or our own systems when possible, because THERE the reliance issue becomes relevant. (e.g. what happens if the proprietary platform goes away). ;D
[13:40] <autumna> *snorts*
[13:40] <sakrecoer> oh, right, thats why i got mixed up :D
[13:40] <sakrecoer> you both rocks! 
[13:40] <autumna> <3
[13:41] <autumna> ok I am going to take a look at this blueprint then pick a few scenarios to focus on so that we can build the website around it
[13:43] <sakrecoer> i have to run away for an hour... if someone could have a look at this at some point? https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-documentation not sure i've done it right... https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-documentation/trunk
[15:10] <zequence> Alan Pope reached out to some of us about the snap packages. I haven't yet take a look at what it actually means in the whole infrastructure of things - how those work as a complement to debian packages
[15:11] <zequence> There is a chance those are a good option for much of our multimedia type of packages
[15:11] <zequence> But, IMO, it's important to also be able to control your updates, without sacrificing updates all together
[15:12] <zequence> If snap packages can be controlled, it would be a good option for pretty much all of our multimedia packages, especially the ones that are updated often
[15:12] <zequence> But, not for our own sources - except for a few, perhaps.
[15:37] <OvenWerks> No I would not use it for our own packages. I have asked about legacy packages also.
[17:11] <sakrecoer> well.. that took longer than expected and came with more... will be back sometime tomorrow afternoon! peace y'all and happy friday!