[15:03] <knome-web> hello hello!
[15:05] <pleia2> ochosi, bluesabre - included you on an email with sabdfl re: snaps
[15:06] <knome-web> meh, i should remember to send that council thing email today
[15:06] <knome-web> i'm already a week and more late
[15:09] <ochosi> pleia2: thanks, will take a look when i'm home from work!
[15:09] <ochosi> knome-web: yes, you really should...
[15:09] <ochosi> or i'll end up being XPL for another cycle, and I guess nobody wants that :)
[15:09] <pleia2> lol
[15:09] <pleia2> ochosi4xpl
[15:10] <pleia2> ochosi jr for xpl?
[15:10] <pleia2> maybe knome jr
[15:11] <knome-web> ochosi: but me?
[15:11] <knome-web> :P
[15:11] <ochosi> :)
[15:12] <ochosi> pleia2: thanks, i'll forward your support to ochosi jr ;)
[15:12] <pleia2> :D
[15:13] <knome-web> and me to knome jr
[16:46] <bluesabre> pleia2: thanks
[16:46] <bluesabre> ochosi: ping
[16:46] <bluesabre> :)
[16:49] <ochosi> bluesabre: pong
[16:52] <ochosi> wat up?
[16:57] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[16:57] <bluesabre> see the email pleia2 mentioned yet?
[16:57] <ochosi> not yet
[16:57] <ochosi> just came home
[16:58] <ochosi> prepping dinner now
[16:58] <bluesabre> k
[16:58] <bluesabre> I'll give you a chance to review it before bugging you (I think you're more familiar with xfce internals than myself)
[17:18] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok will do (sorry, gotta get back to dinner ;))
[18:20] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok, now i've read up on it
[18:21] <ochosi> i'd say glib-dbus and gdbus, X11 signalling is all
[18:22] <ochosi> even xfconf relies on dbus, so there's nothing special i can think of
[18:23] <bluesabre> Yeah, that sounds right
[18:25] <ochosi> so yeah, x11 calls we'll have to get rid of anyway if we ever want to support wayland
[18:25] <ochosi> which leaves us basically with gdbus
[18:25] <ochosi> are you gonna reply or shall i?
[18:28] <bluesabre> Feel free to, I don't have anything to add to that... snaps work in xubuntu 16.04
[18:35] <ochosi> hadn't tested them yet, but that's good to know (couldn't think of a reason why they wouldn't)
[18:36] <ochosi> it's mostly a packaging issue to make our stuff snappy
[18:36] <ochosi> and i guess that's the main part
[18:36] <ochosi> we probably don't have the manpower
[18:36] <ochosi> (wrt our reply)
[18:36] <ochosi> bbabl
[20:44] <ochosi> bluesabre: anyway, lemme know when you're around again so we can finalize our reply to mark
[20:44] <ochosi> (alternatively i can also just go ahead and write it on my own, as you wish)
[21:12] <bluesabre> ochosi: sorry about that, took an allergy-induced nap
[21:12] <ochosi> oh ouch
[21:12] <ochosi> sorry to hear
[21:13] <bluesabre> ochosi: np :)
[21:15] <ochosi> have you looked into snappy packaging?
[21:16] <ochosi> from how i understand the use-case, there's little benefit for us
[21:16] <ochosi> especially since it's not like we roll out so many updates during a cycle
[21:16] <ochosi> we likely benefit more from staying in sync with debian
[21:17] <bluesabre> That's generally the case, we don't really benefit from utilizing it ourselves
[21:17] <ochosi> (is my crude initial analysis)
[21:17] <bluesabre> it's a good one
[21:17] <bluesabre> I think the main thing that mark is interested in is regarding integration with xfce/xubuntu
[21:18] <ochosi> like what? an installer?
[21:18] <ochosi> we're already going with gnome-software and that is supposed to have integration
[21:18] <bluesabre> As I understand it, snappy-packaged apps use a wrapper script to get things like fontconfig and other environment variables in place so the app can integrate well
[21:19] <bluesabre> Xfce doesn't do anything particularly special and should not need additional config to integrate
[21:20] <ochosi> i guess so
[21:20] <bluesabre> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/build-apps/metadata/
[21:20] <ochosi> Strong C/C++ experience, preferably with an open source project.
[21:20] <ochosi> whoops
[21:21]  * ochosi needs to get his mousepad under control
[21:21] <bluesabre> lol
[21:21] <ochosi> left-click != middle-click
[21:21] <bluesabre> ochosi is hiring xfce developers...
[21:21] <ochosi> lol
[21:26] <ochosi> so i dunno, i guess to some extent it might depend a little on the actual application that is snapped
[21:26] <ochosi> but in general i don't see any blockers with snap packages so far
[21:27] <ochosi> from the docs it's easy to see though that this is in an early stage, i would assume that things will change quite a bit in the future
[21:27] <bluesabre> yup, early stage, but functional
[21:28] <ochosi> have you tried any snap package so far?
[21:28] <bluesabre> I installed the notes snap when it first showed up
[21:28] <bluesabre> mhall119 has been snapping things up https://plus.google.com/+MichaelHall119
[21:29] <bluesabre> I've been watching other folks stay on top of it :D
[21:30] <bluesabre> notes app http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/sudo-snap-install-notes-app
[21:30] <bluesabre> telegram app http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/telegram-snap-package-ubuntu-16-04
[21:33] <ochosi> the article on telegram highlights some shortcomings that sound nasty to overcome in a generic and desktop-agnostic way
[21:34] <ochosi> holy moly, 60mb for a notes app...
[21:35] <ochosi> i guess they added a whole DE just to be sure it'll run
[21:36] <bluesabre> yep
[21:36] <ochosi> looks fairly bland also
[21:36] <ochosi> not sure what's really worth 40mb (sorry, misread before) in that app
[21:36] <ochosi> the gtk theme wasn't used in that app btw
[21:36] <ochosi> looked broken, using raleigh
[21:37] <bluesabre> and that's probably one of those highlighted issues, where the wrapper is failing to grab the default theme
[21:37] <bluesabre> that might be something the wrapper needs to communicate to xfce for
[21:38] <ochosi> hm, not sure. it's not really an xfce specific setting
[21:39] <ochosi> at least i think it isn't
[21:39] <bluesabre> kill xfsettingsd, everything goes raleigh
[21:39] <bluesabre> so it does something, somehow
[21:40] <bluesabre> I'm not entirely familar yet with how the apps figure that out
[21:40] <bluesabre> might be something I experiment with this week
[21:41] <ochosi> i thought it sets an x setting
[21:41] <ochosi> some daemon needs to set/provide that
[21:42] <bluesabre> but snap-packaged apps basically run in a clean environment, unless the wrapper script passes in those specific runtime parameters
[21:42] <bluesabre> (if I understand correctly)
[21:44] <ochosi> yeah, sounds a bit like another docker implementation to me (minus the chroot)
[21:53] <ochosi> bluesabre: so wait, do you want me to wait with the reply to mark?
[21:53] <ochosi> i mean, do you want to check the theming xfsettingsd thing somehow?
[21:53] <ochosi> i can also just mention this as a result of our first tests
[21:54] <ochosi> although it means we have to admit we don't know how xfce works :p
[21:55] <bluesabre> haha
[21:56] <bluesabre> xfce is an old project... we can't be familiar with it all, but happen to be some of the xfce+ubuntu devs
[21:57] <bluesabre> I'd just mention what we know, and keep it open for future conversation as we figure out more
[21:57] <ochosi> yup
[21:57] <ochosi> i'll ahead and reply then
[21:59] <bluesabre> great, thanks ochosi
[22:13] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok sent. i hope you're ok with my wording and content
[22:13] <ochosi> wait. i meant: i hope you're content with my wording
[22:13] <ochosi> ;)
[22:19] <bluesabre> :)
[22:19] <bluesabre> dinner time, bbl
[22:21] <ochosi> bed time, nighty ;)
[22:25] <knome> nighty ochosi 
[22:53] <bluesabre> ochosi: well said
[23:13] <mhall119> bluesabre: ochosi are there any xubuntu apps that you'd like to try snapping? We've done some examples for Gnome and KDE already, I'd be happy to help build one for Xubuntu/Xfce too