[08:07] <davidcalle> Morning o/
[13:13] <czajkowski> jose: mail from you seems to have been eaten by the spam monster you may have to resend again
[13:30] <belkinsa> popey: That's what I saw.  But any news from M$ on using it for Bash on Windows?
[13:48] <jose> czajkowski: oh noes! I've gotten a reply or autoreply from most people :( I'll resend in a sec!
[13:57] <pleia2> sethj: sent an email to the community team mailing list about the general outstanding struggles of the doc team, and mentioned the wiki woes
[13:58] <pleia2> I'm sure it's incredibly frustrating for potential members to have folks encourage them to become members, only to find they can't even edit the wiki to create their pages
[13:58] <sethj> pleia2, thanks a lot! I'm thinking since members of ubuntu-members on LP, and previously etherpad memebers, were given access it wouldn't be too hard to create a team just for people seeking membership and give them write access. They'd still have to ask, but at least no more proxies. Dunno how hard that would actually be though.
[13:59] <pleia2> sethj: yeah, we could create a fully moderated team
[13:59] <sethj> Indeed. Is belkinsa aware of these issues? It might throw a wrench in her membership workshops :/
[13:59] <pleia2> no requests to join
[13:59] <pleia2> (since we get buried in spam that way)
[13:59] <sethj> do you? Wow.
[13:59] <pleia2> oh yeah
[14:00] <pleia2> like, non stop
[14:00] <sethj> I did not know O_O
[14:00] <pleia2> hundreds of requests to join
[14:00] <sethj> but that would work.
[14:00] <sethj> *still work
[14:00] <pleia2> spammers getting sneaky about making their profiles look real, some even signed the CoC
[14:00] <pleia2> it was crazy, and a huge time sink
[14:00] <sethj> Wow! That's a lot of work!
[14:00]  * pleia2 nods
[14:01] <pleia2> even with a moderated team, admins are probably going to get lots of direct emails from spammers who want to join
[14:01] <pleia2> so we'll need some volunteers who want to deal with that (not me again)
[14:01] <sethj> That's insane. I didn't know LP had so many spam issues.
[14:02] <pleia2> it's so bad that the OpenStack wiki is also on lockdown (we use Ubuntu SSO/lp)
[14:02] <pleia2> we're working to switch to a new auth mechanism because there seems to be no interest in solving the problem
[14:02] <nigelb> Oh man.
[14:02] <nigelb> THe spam requests are so createive.
[14:02] <nigelb> *creative
[14:03] <pleia2> nigelb: it was pretty impressive actually :)
[14:03] <pleia2> if they weren't evil...
[14:03] <sethj> that's a real bummer. Ubuntu SSO and LP are almost perfect for these things in other regards. What with teams and keys and stuff.
[14:03] <pleia2> sethj: yeah :\
[14:07] <mhall119> sethj: the problem is that Ubuntu SSO prevents bot spam, but there are all (very dedicated) humans
[14:09] <mhall119> it's not just us either, several people at CLS said they were having the same problem
[14:13] <sethj> pleia2, could I get him added to the etherpad instance users? Then I could copy the page to a pad and that would make editing much easier for him. and maybe allow him to ask for testimonials without having them go directly through me.
[14:13] <sethj> mhall119, sounds like a problem you would have period, then.
[14:14] <pleia2> sethj: yep, what's their lp id?
[14:14] <sethj> pleia2, https://launchpad.net/~fossfreedom
[14:15] <pleia2> sethj: done
[14:15] <pleia2> fossfreedom is already approved as a member of the team.
[14:15] <pleia2> huh
[14:16] <sethj> oh really? It wasn't showing on his wiki page.
[14:16] <sethj> Thanks again!
[14:16] <pleia2> sure
[14:16] <sethj> s/wiki/LP/
[14:16] <pleia2> it's on https://launchpad.net/~fossfreedom/+participation
[14:17] <mhall119> sethj: make sure he's checking the team box when he logs in via SSO
[14:17] <sethj> mhall199, yup. will do :)
[14:44] <czajkowski> jose: mail from you seems to have been eaten by the spam monster you may have to resend again
[14:44] <czajkowski> bah damn up tab
[14:52] <jose> czajkowski: again?!
[14:53] <czajkowski> nope got the last mail
[15:37] <belkinsa> It's a shame that nothing is getting done with the issues on hand.
[15:38] <belkinsa> sethj: I'm aware of the issues, but I forgotten to add it to my outline!
[15:39] <belkinsa> Oi!  The topic of this channel needs to be updated.  ;)
[15:41] <pleia2> belkinsa: anyone can change it :)
[15:42] <belkinsa> Really?
[15:42] <pleia2> yep
[15:43] <pleia2> no topic lock (+t) on the channel
[15:43] <pleia2> try it
[15:57] <sethj> belkinsa, oh okay. Good. I am going to email the docs team tomorrow and suggest that a special team be created with edit privs for the wiki to ease the editing process. I'm not sure how testimonials should be handled though..
[15:57] <sethj> Right now I have my friend routing them all into a Google doc and I will edit them into the wiki as they come in, but I'm not sure that would scale well (although we could try)
[16:03] <belkinsa> I feel like having a special team will get the spammers coming unless it's kept as a secret.
[16:06] <sethj> belkinsa, hm. do you have a better idea?
[16:06] <sethj> I guess what we did could work. etherpad with the template then a member edit it for them.
[16:09] <belkinsa> Does Etherpad get spam edits?
[16:09] <popey> no, because there's no value in doing it
[16:09] <belkinsa> Then it would work.
[16:10] <popey> if you make a new team, you will need to document it
[16:10] <popey> as soon as you document it, bad actors will find that
[16:10] <popey> and will abuse it
[16:10] <belkinsa> Yup.
[16:10] <belkinsa> Which will most likely happen if we doc the EtherPad.
[16:10] <popey> I'd be happy to be on a team admin as I am for etherpad
[16:10] <sethj> sounds like LP has some serious issues.
[16:10] <popey> I'm also looking at longer term what we do
[16:11] <popey> in terms of keeping the wiki or moving to something else
[16:11] <sethj> popey: migrate the wiki
[16:11] <popey> yes, I'm looking at that
[16:11] <sethj> moinmoin is obviously not working..
[16:12] <belkinsa> popey: are the suggested scripts from the MediaWiki's wiki not useful?
[16:13] <sethj> popey: you would need to approve members for the etherpad instance, right?
[16:14] <popey> belkinsa: I didn't say that
[16:14] <popey> belkinsa: they are one option
[16:14] <popey> sethj: i already do
[16:14] <belkinsa> I know, but did you look at them?  Because we at Linux Padawan found that none worked.
[16:14] <popey> sethj: so if there was an ~ubuntu-wikieditors too, I'd be happy to be an admin of that
[16:14] <popey> belkinsa: yes
[16:15] <belkinsa> Alright.
[16:15] <sethj> I thought you both just said an ~ubuntu-wikieditors would be a bad idea?
[16:16] <popey> I didnt
[16:16] <popey> just that it's not a panacea
[16:16] <popey> and will get us back where we were
[16:17]  * belkinsa did say it's a bad idea if docuemented
[16:17] <sethj> I see. Ok.
[16:17] <popey> I'm just more willing to take on some of the admin burden, rather than have community people burn out on it
[16:17] <pleia2> I think if there are at least 3 well-coordinated (who is replying to admin emails?) admins, it is a reasonable stopgap for now
[16:18] <sethj> I'm willing to help wherever I can, in my spare time, although it would probably be better people more familiar with the related teams and work do it.
[16:19] <PaulW2U> popey: re ~ubuntu-wikieditors, I would too. We seem to be avoiding the solution that might actually solve the problem.
[16:19] <popey> so for the short term, that might be the least worst option.
[16:23] <popey> so that would be 3 ACLs for the wiki, ~ubuntumembers, ~canonical and ~ubuntu-wikieditors ?
[16:23] <PaulW2U> Just giving access to that group to all known Ubuntu contributors would be a start. Admins would only then need to deal with *unknown*  users
[16:24] <popey> all non-canonical non-member contributors?
[16:24] <popey> not convinced that is a massive list, but it's certainly a list we could pre-load in the team, yes
[16:24] <popey> maybe collaborate on that list before adding en-masse?
[16:25] <PaulW2U> I'd be willing to help whatever the workload  :)
[16:28] <popey> next step would be to create a group, set the permissions on it and file an RT to get that added to the wikis ACLs
[16:34] <PaulW2U>  popey: sounds good to me
[16:39] <sethj> I guess I will forgo the email and let you guys do it then :)
[16:40] <popey> hah
[16:40] <popey> nicely done
[16:40] <popey> :)
[16:43] <PaulW2U> sethj: by all means send your email. not everyone is on IRC  :)
[20:11] <tsimonq2> the lack of a space was bugging me, I didn't change anything :P
[20:11] <tsimonq2> s/a space/spaces/g
[20:34] <tsimonq2> < pleia2> so we'll need some volunteers who want to deal with that (not me again) - I volunteer
[20:34] <tsimonq2> summer
[20:35] <tsimonq2> *summer's coming up and I'll have a significant amount of free time
[20:35]  * tsimonq2 kicks his Enter key
[21:00] <knome> tsimonq2, maybe kicking it is the cause for it not working properly...
[21:01] <tsimonq2> hahahahahahahaha
[21:01] <tsimonq2> no I accidentally pressed it