[06:13] <mapps> HI
[06:13] <mapps> ;]
[07:43] <diplo> Moaning all :)
[07:43] <SuperMatt> morning
[07:45] <diplo> How's the new job going SuperMatt ?
[07:46] <popey> new job?
[08:00] <SuperMatt> diplo: going well thank you
[08:00] <SuperMatt> though I'm a little miffed that I can't install Linux, though I may speak to my manager about that
[08:00] <SuperMatt> it's a bit odd being a linux tech that can't run raw linux
[08:01] <SuperMatt> popey: I'm now working for Sky
[08:01] <popey> ah, cool
[08:01] <SuperMatt> I'm hoping to get close enough to the boss to take him down
[08:01] <popey> in that there london?
[08:01] <SuperMatt> make it look like an age thing
[08:01] <SuperMatt> yeah\
[08:01] <popey> enjoying it?
[08:01] <SuperMatt> well... outskirts of london
[08:01] <SuperMatt> only my second day thus far
[08:02] <popey> i have a friend who does video edit / production for sky sports, he likes it
[08:02] <popey> people seem to like working there
[08:04] <SuperMatt> yeah, it's quite nice
[08:05] <SuperMatt> https://goo.gl/photos/89HsAz3xAtwA2PrN7
[08:05] <SuperMatt> this is my desk
[08:07] <TwistedLucidity> ENHANCE!
[08:11] <popey> thats not loonix
[08:16] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Chocolate Ice Cream Day! 😃  🍦 🍨
[08:19] <diplo> Well it may come in time SuperMatt, took years at my place too to get them to OK me running it
[08:21] <popey> ooh, my son will like that
[08:21] <popey> we have some chocolate ice cream in the fridge
[08:24] <SuperMatt> diplo: I hope I get something soon though, because macs are maddening
[08:24] <SuperMatt> no middle click paste
[08:24] <SuperMatt> non-native docker
[08:27] <diplo> Yeah, I've never got on with MACs, but tbh, I've not put a lot of effort in :P
[08:27] <dwatkins> I always found them hard to remember as they're so long.
[08:27] <TwistedLucidity> Bad-dum-tish
[08:28] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQCQnARnKbc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAxY3PBsb24
[08:28] <TwistedLucidity> G/F's Mac needs to go into a repair shop, I simply cannot get her WiFi to work. Really annoying.
[08:29] <TwistedLucidity> Everything else in the house (TVs, xbox, phones, GNU/Linux lappys) works fine. Her Mac? Not a bit of it.
[08:29] <TwistedLucidity> Probably sulking because I didn't spend the GDP of a small African nation on an Applie AirWotsit.
[08:30] <SuperMatt> thing is though, if I switch to mac, I might just go with Solus
[08:30] <SuperMatt> s/mac/linux
[08:30] <SuperMatt> stupid brain
[08:31] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, never trust Brian
[08:31] <SuperMatt> he's a bit of a loon
[08:32] <foobarry> what is solus USP
[08:32] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: He's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy
[08:32] <SuperMatt> foobarry: usp?
[08:32] <foobarry> unique selling point
[08:33] <foobarry> i looked on their site the other day, i couldn't see it
[08:33] <foobarry> or even a description of what it is
[08:33] <popey> SuperMatt: why solus?
[08:35] <TwistedLucidity> Looks OS X-like?
[08:38] <diplo> I use Budgie as my WM now :)
[08:51] <popey> ahh
[08:53] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:00] <SuperMatt> popey: they have cut back on a lot of what their desktop does (for now), and are also moving to a clean linux set up too, which interests me
[09:00] <SuperMatt> I haven't actually used ubuntu for a couple of years now
[09:06] <Switches> Solus isn't bad, but it been "reborn/reinvented" more times than anything.
[09:10] <Switches> Anyone know when/if ubuntuMATE is going to get the 1.14 update?
[09:31] <foobarry> elementary has been an excellent OS for productivity for last 4 yrs for me
[10:31] <halt> hi all, I have a question about the local dnsmasq, few years back ubunut changed to use a local dnsmasq instead of the dhcp provided dns server, and the network config just change the dnsmasq config, at least this is the idea, since then I had nothing just trouble with with, and my question is what was the original idea, I mean the must be a reason why this was implemented apart from making every sysadmin's live a living hell
[10:31] <halt> can anyone tell me what's the idea behind this ?
[10:40] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:40] <halt> Morning ? it's almost afternoon ( 20 min )
[10:41] <halt> 19
[10:41] <zmoylan-pi> a true geek doesn't get up until near noon... :-P
[10:41] <zmoylan-pi> all that late night hacking in the dark huddled over your laptop screen with your hoodie up... at leas the daily mail tells us... :-P
[10:42] <halt> yeah I know I should change work, here they expect me to show up around 9 ..
[10:42] <halt> s/work/job/
[10:43] <diplo> halt: Think yourself lucky, mine expects me in at 8!
[10:44] <halt> I had a question "early morning" for the ones who just joined, here is it again
[10:44] <halt> hi all, I have a question about the local dnsmasq, few years back Ubuntu changed to use a local dnsmasq instead of the dhcp provided dns server, and the network config just change the dnsmasq config, at least this is the idea, since then I had nothing just trouble with with, and my question is what was the original idea, I mean the must be a reason why this was implemented apart from making every sysadmin's live a living hell
[10:45] <halt> diplo: what they expect and what is the reality could be different ( for some time at least )
[10:54] <diplo> Yeah, sucks really. I also have issues with dnsmasq but never enough to look into it
[10:54] <diplo> Will listen in with bated breath
[11:11] <popey> halt: maybe you're asking in the wrong place. perhaps either #ubuntu or #ubuntu-devel would be better
[11:16] <davmor2> halt: it is always Morning on the Interwebz
[11:17] <zmoylan-pi> except april first when we all will for it to be post noon...
[11:17] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: Oh come on it's the best day to be on the internet then
[11:18] <zmoylan-pi> no, no it isn't... too many people trying to be funny and failing spectacularly...
[11:18] <zmoylan-pi> best april fool joke is still the british spaghetti harvest and no one else has come close to that level of classic
[11:48] <diddledan> +1
[11:48] <diddledan> I love that people fell for it
[11:49] <zmoylan-pi> and not even wikipedia for people to alter to make them believe...
[11:49] <zmoylan-pi> it was on the bbc... that was all that was needed
[11:50] <diddledan> owncloud seems to be trying to one-up the nextcloud gang: https://twitter.com/TheOnlyDoo/status/740115855686676480
[11:52] <zmoylan-pi> and not rearranging deck chairs and humming abide with me?
[11:52] <diddledan> this seems to be turning into quite a battle between "what's left" and "the new guys who are actually the original team of 'what's left'"
[11:53] <diddledan> management of owncloud must be widdled (piddled?)
[11:53] <diddledan> wee'd?
[11:54] <diddledan> urinated?
[11:54] <Laney> come on parcelforce
[11:54]  * Laney sets up a giant magnet
[11:54] <diddledan> Laney: shiny things?
[11:54] <Laney> new phone
[11:54] <diddledan> yey
[11:54] <zmoylan-pi> i think the approved method is a pit outside front door covered in leaves and brances
[11:54] <Laney> dropped the old one :(
[11:54] <diddledan> boo
[11:55] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: with sticky things in the bottom to poke holes in the driver?
[11:55] <Laney> pit sounds good
[11:55]  * Laney puts a sausage sandwich in it
[11:55] <zmoylan-pi> no sticky things... the postal worker must be freed and released back into the wild after you liberate your parcel
[11:56] <diddledan> aww, you're no fun
[11:56] <zmoylan-pi> doesn't rule out filling it with leeches
[11:56] <diddledan> I think there should be a youtube video of the releasing of a postal worker back into the wild set to the soundtrack of born-free
[11:57]  * zmoylan-pi types postal worker born free into search engine and immediately regrets it
[11:59] <diddledan> this is a new one on me: crying funky eyes ಥ_ಥ
[12:51] <ali1234> is it just me or is the internet a bit broken today?
[12:52] <popey> not that I've noticed
[12:52] <diddledan> me either
[12:53] <ali1234> hmmmm
[12:53] <zmoylan-pi> a few netsplits yesterday. i thought it was the lightning tbh...
[12:53] <zmoylan-pi> a bit laggy today
[12:53] <ali1234> probably my router needs rebooting or something
[12:54]  * brobostigon is having a dumb moment, he is trying to find his own phone number on touch. doh.
[13:02] <ali1234> so people are discussing DNS resolution again
[13:02] <ali1234> remind me again why we need any of that stuff?
[13:02] <zmoylan-pi> because systemd people seem to be clueless allegedly
[13:03] <ali1234> what about dnsmasq tho?
[13:03] <ali1234> why do we need that currently?
[13:04] <TwistedLucidity> On a router - name resolution for the LAN. On a PC, acts as a DNS cache. <- I think
[13:04] <ali1234> dnsmasq does, but resolved doesn't cache apparently
[13:05] <TwistedLucidity> Oh, is "resolved" more land-grab by thre systemd folks?
[13:05] <ali1234> yes
[13:05] <ali1234> but that's not important
[13:06] <zmoylan-pi> systemd seem to want in on the hated as much as oracle/ms/sco space
[13:06] <ali1234> i like systemd
[13:06] <TwistedLucidity> Meh, never really had to fiddle with dnsmasq other than on the router. On the PC/laptop is sits their quite happily and caches look-ups
[13:07] <TwistedLucidity> I like systemd too, but their actions are becoming increasingly vexatious
[13:07] <ali1234> not really
[13:07] <TwistedLucidity> "Hey tmux, we changed a thing. Please re-write your code to cope with that. kthanxbye"
[13:07] <ali1234> it's pretty constant
[13:07] <zmoylan-pi> they broke tmux....
[13:08] <ali1234> good
[13:08] <zmoylan-pi> if your code requires really old stable code to change.  then you broke something... bad...
[13:08] <ali1234> killing user processes when the session ends is the best thing ever
[13:09] <TwistedLucidity> Err...no
[13:09] <ali1234> there is far too much junk code that fails to exit properly
[13:09] <zmoylan-pi> on a desktop yes, on a server no
[13:09] <ali1234> even on a server
[13:09] <TwistedLucidity> No.
[13:09] <ali1234> users shouldn't even be logging in to a server
[13:09] <ali1234> everything should be daemon
[13:09] <zmoylan-pi> your right _and_ you are wrong
[13:09] <ali1234> heh
[13:09] <zmoylan-pi> because it's a funny world :-)
[13:10] <ali1234> i have a question about that actually
[13:10] <zmoylan-pi> it moves things towards an apple there is only one way to do things mentality that doesn't work for me
[13:11] <ali1234> does "bash -l" make a new systemd session?
[13:11] <ali1234> i know you can do it manually and that's the correct way to do it imo
[13:11] <ali1234> and no software should ever be patched to do it automatically
[13:12] <diddledan> afaict dnsmasq has caching turned-off anyway, so there's no reason to be running it at all
[13:12] <diddledan> so. dnsmasq or resolved, different solutions to the same non-problem
[13:16] <diddledan> anyone in the UK - the IPBill is being discussed today, so the open rights group have provided a quick-n-easy way to tweet your MP to tell them to attend the debate: https://www.snooperscharter.co.uk/#action
[13:17] <diddledan> IPBill = Intrusive or Inappropriate Probing
[13:28] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: You sure? I seem to be getting local resolution.
[13:30] <ali1234> where can i find the kernel git for utopic?
[13:31] <ali1234> nvm found it
[13:42] <diplo> diddledan: Did you see the amount of people in there? About 20-30
[13:43] <diddledan> aye, it sucks
[13:43] <diddledan> it's only the privacy of the population at stake
[13:50] <diddledan> a friend just facebooked me this related link: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/06/gchq_oversight/
[13:52] <popey> my MP wouldn't care
[13:52] <diddledan> nor mine: maria miller
[13:52] <popey> he's only interested in military things
[13:58] <diddledan> something funny for your tuesday afternoon: https://twitter.com/JoeSondow/status/734155782858539008
[14:02] <diddledan> owncloud summit cancelled: https://news.opensuse.org/2016/06/07/summit-at-opensuse-conference-cancelled/
[14:13] <diplo> popey: Mine doesn't either, tried already :/
[14:13] <diplo> useless
[14:17] <diddledan> someone in parliament just used the word "cyber"
[14:17] <diddledan> apparently bulk surveillance helps prevent "cyber attacks"
[14:33] <diplo> Are you actually watching it?!
[14:35] <TwistedLucidity> Bulk serveillance increases the size of the haystack. The number of needles remains constant
[14:36] <TwistedLucidity> Also if you don't want a situation that fosters terroriesm, don't use a foreign policy they encourages it. e.g. do not support brutal distactorships, destroy livelihoods, help kelptocrats etc
[14:37] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/snookca/status/740183413726928896
[14:39] <TwistedLucidity> diddledan: is Miller better/worse the Soubry? That's the reptile I have...
[14:40] <diddledan> donno. I had a letter from her about the last attempt at invasive penetration that I wrote to her about where she stated pretty much "I don't care what arguments you have, the government is right, you're wrong and you should feel bad for even attempting to suggest that surveillance en masse is a bad idea!"
[14:41] <TwistedLucidity> Sounds just like a Soub clone
[14:42] <popey> i like that diddledan
[15:23] <DJones> Finally got a Win 10 upgrade to work after about 10 failures by using seperate install media, what is this, the 1980's
[15:23] <zmoylan-pi> did you have to use 35 5.25" floppies? :-P
[15:24] <DJones> No, I used 8" floppies :)
[15:24] <zmoylan-pi> keeping them on hand in case you want to sneak a virus into the military early warning system? :-P
[15:25] <zmoylan-pi> just put the virus on 10 numbered disks and leave in car park...
[15:25] <DJones> Yep
[15:25] <zmoylan-pi> with install instructions...
[15:25] <DJones> Thats about it
[15:25] <zmoylan-pi> should work
[15:44] <TwistedLucidity> DJones: Now all your life belong Redmond
[15:47] <DJones> Nah, spare laptop, only use it for powerpoint at church, couple of hours a week at most
[15:49] <zmoylan-pi> a free bsd demon sticker on the lid should engender trust... :-P http://jithonline.com/wp-img/freebsd-logo.jpg
[15:50] <DJones> Will somebody turn the heat down
[15:50]  * zmoylan-pi has fan on setting 1... lovely stuff
[17:16] <diddledan> fans blow!
[18:02] <diddledan> isn't it telling that 20 people sit through the discussion and then 300 vote
[18:22] <diddledan> serverporn: https://www.ixsystems.com/blog/serverenvy-hard-drives-need-not-apply/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=serverenvy&utm_content=flash+jupiter
[18:41] <Switches> That's one hell of a monster server
[18:43] <zmoylan-pi> probably still crushed by chrome after 30 minutes... :-)
[19:17] <brobostigon> can i pick someone mind about why ubuntu touch fails to connect to my wifi, please.
[19:23] <zmoylan-pi> does it connect to any wifi or none?
[19:24] <zmoylan-pi> i've had both. the one that connected to none was too new a chipset for ubuntu.  works since. the wouldn't connect to one wifi ap was just the ap needed a reboot
[19:26] <brobostigon> it seems to connect to a random btwifi, but not our bthub*.
[19:28] <zmoylan-pi> new laptop?
[19:30] <brobostigon> ubuntu touch on nexus 4.
[19:31] <zmoylan-pi> my bad, missed the mention of touch earlier... ::goes to check it out::
[19:31] <diddledan> http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/why-do-only-some-people-get-skin-orgasms-listening-music/
[19:32] <brobostigon> i have my phone connected to my computer over adb to try and work iyut out.
[19:33] <diddledan> the star wars fan clip linked in that article does it for me. big time.
[19:39] <zmoylan-pi> brobostigon: are you using mac address filtering on the bthub? theren's mention of a bug in the mailing list that the mac address changes on ununtu touch for some a few months back
[19:40] <brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: i have no idea to be honest, not that i aware of.
[19:40] <zmoylan-pi> you'd know if you set it up i'm sure
[19:41] <brobostigon> ok, no i havent then.
[19:41] <zmoylan-pi> from all the mentions of wifi and ubuntu touch and nexus 4 it's suppsed to 'just work'
[19:41] <brobostigon> could there be some issue between 2.4/5 ghz wifi?
[19:42] <zmoylan-pi> considering the dispersal of the ubuntu touch user base.  it'd pop up quickly if it did?
[19:43] <brobostigon> ok, so where do i start? i thought od trying to use wpa-supplicant manually to see if its a gui issue?
[19:43] <zmoylan-pi> i'd restart the hub to set my mind at ease myself.
[19:44] <brobostigon> ok, good start, let me try.
[19:48] <brobostigon> same result, said hub shows as two entries, and doesnt remeber the key for said hub either when iselct to connect to.
[19:49] <zmoylan-pi> is there a wifi extenter in use?
[19:49] <brobostigon> no.
[19:49] <zmoylan-pi> i dunno...
[19:49] <brobostigon> me neither, thats why i am asking.
[19:49] <zmoylan-pi> and all the other devices about connect to the hub happily
[19:50] <brobostigon> including my dell with debian i am connected to right now, yes.
[19:50] <zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed someone reads the above and sees what we are missing...
[19:51] <brobostigon> i may as well try wpa-supplicant manually and see what happens.
[19:53] <brobostigon> problem is, it seems to connect to something thats non-encrypted, ie compared to said wpa hotspot.
[19:57] <zmoylan-pi> http://askubuntu.com/questions/586300/creating-a-wpa2-enterprise-connection-on-ubuntu-touch
[20:39] <diddledan> wpa-enterprise is a bit different to standard wpa iirc
[20:40] <diddledan> standard wpa = wpa-personal
[20:40] <diddledan> aka pre-shared key
[20:42] <zmoylan-pi> ah, i never use wpa
[20:43] <diddledan> really?
[20:43] <diddledan> what do you use then?
[20:43] <diddledan> don't say WEP
[20:43] <diddledan> !!
[20:43] <Switches> ...
[20:43] <Switches> If he is using WEP I suggest we all start running :p
[20:44] <zmoylan-pi> nope. in ireland wep default by eircom the main telecom was set up so badly i still use it.  http://www.bacik.ie/eircomwep/howto.html
[20:44] <diddledan> err
[20:45]  * Switches runs for his life
[20:45] <zmoylan-pi> you can still get free wifi everywhere because of it.. :-P
[20:45] <diddledan> I don't care if you can. it's broken
[20:45] <zmoylan-pi> my personal favourite was finding a wifi ap in central bank building using my then nokia 770 and it's insane wifi range
[20:48] <Switches> diddledan, When you ordering your monster "server porn" machine from ixsystems then ? :p
[20:51] <zmoylan-pi> when he returns all his empty bottles for their deposits
[20:55] <diddledan> I don't think we want to concern ourselves with server-deposits. if cats are anything to go by then they're stinky
[20:56] <zmoylan-pi> you use to get 10p back for every bottle you returned to bottle bank in 70s early 80s
[21:39] <user2635> hey
[21:40] <user2635> I'm using thunderbird at the moment
[21:40] <user2635> but it looks like Kontact and Evolution are more fully featured
[21:40] <user2635> has anyone used there and would I benefit more from these packages?
[21:44] <zmoylan-pi> if thunderbird works well enough for, why change?
[21:44] <zmoylan-pi> *for you
[21:46] <user2635> because i want to explore if the other ones have better features for address book management
[21:52] <brobostigon> well thunderbird with enigmail support openpgp smartcards.