[05:18] <magespawn> good morning
[05:29] <superfly> magespawn: o/
[05:29] <mazal> **sigh**
[05:29] <mazal> Morning
[05:44] <mazal> Morning Kilos , Cryterion 
[05:45] <Kilos> hi mazal Cryterion inetpro superfly and others
[05:45] <mazal> Hoe gaanit oom ?
[05:45] <Kilos> nog steeds die griep man
[05:46] <mazal> ai , dis sleg
[05:46] <Kilos> ek word amper nooit siek nie maar hierdie griep is kwaai
[05:46] <mazal> Ek is nog ok tot sover die jaar
[05:46] <Kilos> sjoe
[05:47] <mazal> Maar dit pla my dat die erge koue nog nie gekom het nie
[05:47] <mazal> Ons gaan weer winter in Oktober hê
[05:47] <Kilos> lyk my hierdie naweek begin die sneeu val
[05:47] <mazal> oi
[05:47] <mazal> Oorbenutting van binneshuise aktiwiteite dan
[05:48] <mazal> Op die Ubuntu front gaan dit nie goed nie , my install het skielik klomp system errors vanmôre :(
[05:48] <mazal> " system problem occured " , aanmekaar na startup
[05:49] <mazal> Ek raak nou moedeloos
[05:49] <Kilos> doen daai sudo touch /forcefsck en reboot
[05:50] <Kilos> is jou hardeskyf nie miskien ietwat oud nie?
[05:50] <mazal> Sal daai gou try en sien of hy iets kry
[05:53] <mazal> Daai het niks gedoen nie oom , hy het nie eers gecheck nie
[05:53] <Kilos> oh wag
[05:53] <Kilos> jy moet iets doen eers
[05:53] <Kilos> het dit nie eers probeer nie
[05:55] <Kilos> mazal ons kan by pro hoor later wat moet gedoen word om dit te activate, hy het die lienk
[05:55] <Kilos> myne werk net
[05:56] <mazal> Ek begin ook nou al wonder oor hardware , MAAR dan moet my huis pc nie selle issues hê nie. En hy het al dieselle KDE bugs as wat hier was
[05:56] <mazal> Daar is totaal ander hardeware
[05:56] <Kilos> of jy kan google hoe om forcefsck te activate
[05:57] <Kilos> ai!
[05:57] <Kilos> doen daai badblocks ding
[05:57] <Kilos> wag ek soek
[05:59] <Kilos> https://bin.snyman.info/mmmmfjv6
[06:00] <Kilos> maar ek sien gereeld hulle werk kwaai op xenial bugs
[06:01] <mazal> Ek run nou daai bad block test
[06:10] <Kilos> ai! so many emails daily
[06:12] <Kilos> mazal badblocks should give you feedback
[06:18] <mazal> 0 bad blocks found
[06:18] <Kilos> yay
[06:19] <mazal> Back to square one though
[06:19] <Kilos> al wat ek dan kan dink is om ubuntu-desktop to reinstall en kyk of dit data gaan haal
[06:20] <Kilos> kannie  verstaan hoe dit so baie moeite kan gee nie
[06:21] <zerlgi> Maybe just disable the "crashed application notifier"
[06:21]  * zerlgi ducks away againn
[06:21] <mazal> zerlgi, how
[06:22] <theblazehen> Hi Kilos, mazal, zerlgi
[06:22] <mazal> Hi theblazehen 
[06:24] <Kilos> hi theblazehen and zerlgi 
[06:24] <Kilos> hehe
[06:24] <anton_may> WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZUUUUUPPPPPPPP!!!!!!
[06:24] <Kilos> hi anton_may 
[06:24] <Kilos> you watch too much tv
[06:24] <anton_may> Had a Whipme breakfast so all is good :D
[06:25] <mazal> You lucky fish
[06:26] <Kilos> lol
[06:26] <anton_may> ;)
[06:28] <theblazehen> hey anton_may
[06:28] <theblazehen> Anyone else think of irl stuff like computer things?
[06:28] <anton_may> 0/ theblazehen
[06:28] <theblazehen> This morning I was taking dog out, but he ran to parents bed. So, my logic being that I "lost" the dog, I went to my parents and asked if they have a backup of /run, because well, that was what I needed.. They were like "what?" I was like, you know, the /run partition? Eventually I asked for the dog.. In my defense, I was really tired
[06:29] <anton_may> Only in my dreams, I wake in a cold sweat because my laptop got a virus, but then I realise I don't use Windoze and go back to sleep
[06:30] <zerlgi> theblazehen: you needed to use *bark*
[06:30] <zerlgi> Backup And Restore Kwickly
[06:30] <theblazehen> heh
[06:30] <Kilos> lol
[06:31] <andrewlsd> changing nicks moves me from near the bottom to the top of the user list :-P
[06:31] <theblazehen> anton_may: https://xkcd.com/272/
[06:32] <anton_may> lol yip
[06:33] <andrewlsd> nice one theblazehen 
[06:33] <andrewlsd> how to disable any start up application. 
[06:34] <andrewlsd> 1) unhide theme from the startup applications list:
[06:34] <andrewlsd> by
[06:35] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: sudo rm -f `which applicationName`
[06:35] <theblazehen> works too
[06:35] <andrewlsd> sudo sed -i 's/Nodisplay=true/Nodisplay=false/' /etc/xdg/autostart/*desktop
[06:35] <andrewlsd> then you can see them via your normal settings --> startup applications list
[06:35] <theblazehen> Or in .config/autostart/ IIRC
[06:36] <theblazehen> And that's if you're using a desktop environment :)
[06:36] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: most of the "system"-type apps aren't in .config/autostart
[06:36] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: what's a desktop environment ;-)
[06:37] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: Yeah, but that's the place for xdg autostart stuff
[06:37] <theblazehen> I mostly user systemd user thing
[06:37] <andrewlsd> never do this: unset VAR ; sudo rm -rf $VAR/
[06:37] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: you trying to start a systemd flame war this early?
[06:38] <theblazehen> Case in point: https://github.com/valvesoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671
[06:38] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: Yeah, why not :) I like it
[06:39] <andrewlsd> lol, i'd be pretty _steam_ed if that happened to me
[06:40]  * andrewlsd disappears to find coffee (not virtual coffee)
[06:40] <theblazehen> I don't like openshit :(
[06:41] <mazal> Does anybody know of a good app to manage startup services ?
[06:42] <mazal> For ubuntu
[06:42] <inetpro> goeie more
[06:43] <mazal> Môre inetpro 
[06:44] <Kilos> Môre inetpro 
[06:44] <Kilos> hehe
[06:47] <andrewlsd> I don't know of any GUI for systemd
[06:47] <andrewlsd> ... but I haven't looked for one
[06:48] <mazal> I tried bum , but there is few services it doesn't pickup properly
[06:49] <inetpro> theblazehen: I see you have had some very interesting experience with RAM and swap space 
[06:54] <andrewlsd> inetpro: theblazehen that sounds interesting
[06:57] <inetpro> talking about RAM I have a question
[06:57] <inetpro> if you want to make the most of RAM, does it make a difference to run services on VM guests on 32 bit vs 64 bit?
[06:59] <inetpro> andrewlsd: surely you should know the answer to that ^^ 
[06:59] <inetpro> zeorin: hmm... what happened with andrewlsd?
[07:00] <inetpro> oops... I mean zerlgi
[07:00] <andrewlsd> lol
[07:00] <andrewlsd> "still alive"
[07:00] <inetpro> ah...
[07:01] <andrewlsd> probably 32-bit guest would use less. But if you're really trying to get the most bang from your server, with some "virtualization" rather use LXD
[07:01] <andrewlsd> (linux containers)
[07:01] <theblazehen> inetpro: I'd say go x32 if you absolutely need the extra ram
[07:02] <andrewlsd> inetpro: what's the real answer
[07:02] <theblazehen> Gives you the benefits of x64 (more registers + extra instructions), with the 32 bit memory addressing
[07:09]  * andrewlsd lurks, mostly away from this screen.
[07:14] <anton_may> **Sigh** when I grow up --> https://system76.com/servers/jackal-pro-2u
[07:14]  * inetpro always trying to make the most of limited resources
[07:15] <anton_may> I think we all are inetpro
[07:17] <inetpro> anton_may: yeah, our currency is not helping us much to bring down pricing 
[07:17] <inetpro> theblazehen: I also noticed that swap is used way too easily these days
[07:18] <theblazehen> inetpro: Well, if you access the disk cache more often than you access the actual memory pages, then it makes sense to swap old application pages out
[07:18] <theblazehen> Otherwise just adjust vm.swappiness I think
[07:24] <inetpro> andrewlsd: I'm still experimenting with LXD and not quite ready to use it in production environment... wishing our days had more hours
[07:25] <theblazehen> inetpro: What problems are you seeing?
[07:25] <theblazehen> inetpro: Also have you or andrewlsd tested the migration feature?
[07:29] <inetpro> theblazehen: I still need to spend time analysing it more, but mostly on my laptops both at work and at home, when working on multiple stuff, firefox, chrome, krdc, thunderbird, konsole, LibreOffice... I often find at the end of the day that things started using swap
[07:30] <theblazehen> inetpro: yeah, but you'll probably find that the disk cache in ram is more helpfull (Unless on a ssd)
[07:30] <inetpro> and when swap is being used, things noticeably start slowing down
[07:31] <theblazehen> inetpro: What is your actual free memory?
[07:31] <theblazehen> Try set swappiness to 1 then
[07:31] <Kilos> i go sort sheep and fences
[07:31] <Kilos> Maaz watch them
[07:31] <Maaz> oh Kilos I will watch them no problem, but you better be back soon!
[07:35] <inetpro> Mem total: 7.7G used: 2.9G free: 964M 
[07:35] <inetpro> Swap total: 1.9G used: 3.8M free: 1.9G
[07:38] <inetpro> at the end of the day after closing most apps I often run the following as a matter of routine
[07:38] <inetpro> free && sudo swapoff -a && sudo swapon -a && free
[07:39] <MaNI> if you are using multiple VMs then KSM is well worth looking into
[07:40] <inetpro> oh and upgrading from 4GB of RAM to 8GB the other day made a huge difference
[07:41] <MaNI> I'm upgrading now from 16 to 32 - 16 used to be enough but web browsers have gotten really memory greedy so now I run into issues
[07:42] <inetpro> MaNI: KSM as in Kernel Samepage Merging?
[07:42] <MaNI> yes
[07:42] <inetpro> interesting, thanks
[07:42]  * theblazehen has 11/20 GB used on my desktop
[07:43] <MaNI> I've used that and zram before to get quite a bit more out of my ram than what I should be - though both come at some cpu cost - always a tradeoff :p
[07:44] <MaNI> assigning 3 of those 8 gbs to a zram swap could make a decent difference
[07:46] <theblazehen> Or upgrade to 16 GB :)
[07:49] <MaNI> yeah - I found 16gb for R800 on takealot - so figured it's time to get more ram :p - not sure if they made a pricing mistake or something thats almost half price
[07:56] <inetpro> MaNI: hmm... so you have to recompile the kernel for that?
[07:57] <MaNI> yeah probably - not sure if ubuntu has any kernels with it enabled or not
[07:58] <MaNI> KSM only helps if you have a lot of duplicate things running though - like if you run 4 different windows VMs at once for instance 
[07:59] <inetpro> makes sense
[08:00] <inetpro> found interesting article at: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2010/02/ksm-now-enabled-in-ubuntu-lucid.html
[08:02] <inetpro> looks like it is on by default these days
[08:03] <MaNI> oh okay, cool
[08:05] <inetpro> have 242386 pages shared on a machine here with qemu-kvm
[08:11] <magespawn> inetpro: webpages?
[08:11] <MaNI> memory pages
[08:24] <Kilos> hi  divansantana 
[08:25] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[08:47] <divansantana> Kilos: thanks. Been a long time since visiting here. 
[08:48] <Kilos> naughty
[12:00] <Kilos> power gone
[12:00] <Kilos> wbb
[12:27] <chesedo> afternoon all
[12:31] <theblazehen> hi chesedo
[14:35] <Kilos> hmm...
[14:56] <divansantana> Kilos: lol to power... -za channel for sure.
[14:57] <divansantana> chesedo: howdy
[14:58] <Kilos> lol
[14:58] <Kilos> hopefully they are fixing things
[14:59] <chesedo> hi divansantana, first time i've seen you here
[14:59] <Kilos> divansantana chesedo is our chairperson at monthly meetings
[15:00]  * chesedo always thought he was just one of the chairpersons
[15:02] <divansantana> chesedo: yes I visit *very* rarely...
[15:03] <divansantana> monthly meetings... Interesting. I'm more of an arch(/parabola) guy then ubuntu. Though I do prefer ubuntu/debian/devuan to RedHat based distros... Even for servers.
[15:05] <Kilos> THE chairperson
[15:05] <chesedo> divansantana: if you stay, then there is no need for visits :D
[15:05] <Kilos> dont think, bad for the head
[15:06] <Kilos> divansantana there are other arch users here as well
[15:06] <Kilos> and even centos
[15:06]  * Kilos peeks at theblazehen
[15:06] <chesedo> lol Kilos
[15:08] <Kilos> oh divansantana were you here last before our new site went up?
[15:13] <Kilos> hmm...
[16:06] <mazal> I am so done with Kubuntu
[16:07] <Kilos> lol
[16:08] <mazal> Oom Kilos , got home , start pc , junk don't even boot up
[16:08] <Kilos> you just installed unity yesterday
[16:08] <Kilos> ai!
[16:08] <mazal> So Kubuntu gone from home pc as well now
[16:08] <Kilos> what happened to plan c
[16:08] <mazal> And I literally didn't change a thing here at home yesterday. Just read mail and did some browsing
[16:09] <Kilos> go back to 14.04 man
[16:09] <mazal> Will never even concider Kubuntu again.
[16:09] <Kilos> you are really having lotsa probs
[16:09] <mazal> consider*
[16:09] <Kilos> eish
[16:09] <mazal> It's the Vista of linux
[16:09] <Kilos> nee man
[16:10] <Kilos> how come its only you having these hassles
[16:10] <mazal> So on Unity at home also now , will see if it's stable here or not. Hopefully it's better than at work
[16:15] <Kilos> wbb
[16:22] <magespawn> home time later all
[16:40] <inetpro> Kilos: should I kick him outta here?
[16:41] <Kilos> who is him?  inetpro 
[16:41] <inetpro> this dude called mazal, no respect for our distro
[16:41] <Kilos> hahahaha
[16:42] <Kilos> he just enjoys ranting
[16:42] <Kilos> i wonder why he is having so many hassles
[16:42] <inetpro> he just likes breaking things man
[16:43] <Kilos> if it wasnt for the data id install 16.04 to see if i have issues as well
[16:49] <theblazehen> mazal: Go Arch :)
[16:49] <Kilos> hahahahaha
[16:49] <Kilos> endless rants
[16:49] <theblazehen> LFS then :D
[16:51] <inetpro> ya mazal, do that ^^
[16:51] <Kilos> rofl
[16:51]  * theblazehen still has to do it
[16:52] <theblazehen> Do it with systemd too :D
[16:52] <inetpro> maybe he will gain respect again for *nix again
[16:52] <inetpro> s/again//
[16:52] <theblazehen> Speaking of which, I wanna try out a bsd
[16:53] <theblazehen> But I can't do dragonfly bsd on desktop, and don't wanna maintain too many distros in my config management
[17:02] <inetpro> theblazehen: DragonFly BSD is 64-bit only
[17:03] <pavlushka> Hello everyone!
[17:04] <inetpro> wb pavlushka
[17:04] <inetpro> dragonfly looks interesting
[17:04] <pavlushka> thank you inetpro !
[17:05] <mazal> Sure , blame the user for &^%& software
[17:08] <inetpro> mazal: haha, I'm sure you have some out of the ordinary things you do on your side
[17:09] <inetpro> or you have hardware that is completely different to what developers are using
[17:11] <mazal> inetpro, wrong on both
[17:13] <mazal> I install probably only 10% of the apps I used to and my hardware is fairly standard
[17:14] <chesedo> mazal: i used to install an ide (or something) that would bonger my system... only found out after the third or fourth re-install
[17:14] <chesedo> ...well actually it was the ppa
[17:28] <theblazehen> inetpro: All my stuff is 64 bit too
[17:37]  * theblazehen really wants HAMMERFS
[17:38] <Kilos> theblazehen you gonna send those drives?
[17:43] <theblazehen> Kilos: I wanna try seagate themselves first. Makro said no, but gave me details for a seagate place
[17:43] <Kilos> ok, good luck
[17:43] <theblazehen> ty
[17:57] <inetpro> theblazehen: have you played with ZFS?
[18:32] <theblazehen> inetpro: Briefly, a couple years ago
[18:33] <inetpro> why do you want HAMMERFS?
[18:44] <theblazehen> inetpro: Well, HAMMER2 more. Continous snapshotting (every 60s by default), built in being able to use ssds as cache, transparent compression, deduplication, built in network thing , encryption, automatic sparse files, and no need to fsck on a hard reboot. I know zfs does a bunch of this too, but IMO I want something that I just mkfs.hammer /dev/sda or whatever, and get an fs. No need to mess with zpools, whatever caches etc
[18:45]  * inetpro was just reading this: http://www.gluster.org/pipermail/gluster-users/2013-December/015459.html
[18:46] <inetpro> thing is HAMMER2 is not very widely in use
[18:46] <inetpro> at least not that I am aware of
[18:46] <theblazehen> Yeah, as I understand it HAMMER2 can function as  a distributed fs (Not 100% sure, can't recall which doc it was that I read)
[18:46] <theblazehen> Well, it's not quite production ready yet yeah
[18:47] <theblazehen> Still, even just HAMMERFS as it is seems decent
[18:47] <inetpro> does look good yet
[18:49] <theblazehen> The dragonfly swapcache feature seems neat too. Mix your swap and ssd disk cache. As I said to someone (you?) earlier, it can be good to page applications out to ram, if you'd get better overall performance by having some ram used by the disk cache. Afaik there are patch sets for the kernel to auto-adjust vm.swappiness
[18:59] <inetpro> unfortunately I don't have SSD drives to play with, yet
[19:05] <theblazehen> I have a 64GB, works well with bcache. Cheap too
[19:18] <theblazehen> hi divansantana
[19:25] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:35] <divansantana> chesedo: thanks. I'll be around more often. Need to get my IRC stuff sorted out better. And use something to keep my session alive.
[19:36] <divansantana> Though I've lightly used IRC here and there for years, I've barely used it much. Anyone have info on keeping IRC up and connected all the time? Think I need something like ZNC
[19:37] <theblazehen> divansantana: I use quassel. Works well
[19:37] <theblazehen> Nice mobile app too (android)
[19:37] <divansantana> theblazehen: and when you pack up your laptop?
[19:37] <theblazehen> and a web interface or desktop client
[19:37] <divansantana> theblazehen: or disconnect?
[19:37] <theblazehen> It runs on my server, and client connects to server
[19:37] <divansantana> theblazehen: cool
[19:38] <divansantana> theblazehen: ok I must look into that. Have a good server setup at home
[19:38] <divansantana> whois theblazehen 
[19:38] <divansantana> lol
[19:38] <theblazehen> Nice. Considering running weechat at home server too, I like some of it's features
[19:38] <divansantana> theblazehen: I'm using emacs and trying to use ERC
[19:39] <divansantana> weechat is nice.
[19:39] <theblazehen> vim master race. But lets not get into that :)
[19:40] <divansantana> lol. Yeah. I've never met a vim/linux user that knows how to use Emacs properly.
[19:40] <divansantana> though most linux users I've met don't know how to use vim properly either. lol
[19:40] <theblazehen> Truth
[19:41] <theblazehen> I *want* to use emacs, but it just doesn't feel right
[19:41] <divansantana> theblazehen: tried spacemacs?
[19:41] <divansantana> its emacs made pretty with all the bells and whistles in "evil-mode"
[19:41] <theblazehen> Yup :/
[19:41] <divansantana> so with vim keybindings
[19:42] <divansantana> I'm not too much of a fan of spacemacs tho
[19:42] <divansantana> I like emacs, just because of all the extra things you can do it in. And I like to do as many things in the same program as possible. Makes doing things quicker. And all via key bindings.
[19:42] <theblazehen> Okay. How well does emacs work over ssh?
[19:42] <divansantana> no mouse.
[19:43] <divansantana> I think pretty well. Though haven't looked into that. I use tramp mode which is to edit files remotely over ssh, even via sudo over ssh
[19:45] <theblazehen> Ah nice. I prefer to just ssh to  the dev server though, has config management set up there and all
[19:46] <divansantana> theblazehen: quassel does look cool. 
[20:02] <divansantana> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Znc looks like this will do the trick for me. Simple. And overdue.
[20:07] <theblazehen> Yeah. Or irssi/weechat in screen/tmux
[20:12] <divansantana> yeah even simpler.