[00:04] <OerHeks> just a silly thought nhaines: is this any different than your command? pkcon install-local com.ubuntu.puritine_0.1.armhf.click\?noauth\=1
[00:11] <nhaines> OerHeks: yes in that it's not what I type.
[00:11] <nhaines> I don't know whether the effect of the commands would turn out differently.
[00:14] <OerHeks> your unsigned container should survive a boot .. should that be possible?
[00:14] <nhaines> The click package is a dummy package.  It survives a reboot.
[00:15] <nhaines> The problem is that there's a puritine-click Upstart job that destroys the libertine container if it finds one, unless there's a purtine click package installed.
[00:16] <nhaines> Except with less "unless" than I prefer.
[01:20] <ahoneybun> mm a clean install of the OTA11 for the N7 told be to long swipe for the Today Scope but it was not installed
[01:22] <nhaines> I feel like I should buy Homeworld.
[01:23] <ahoneybun> mm?
[01:24] <nhaines> Oops, mean that for -offtopic.  :)
[01:25] <ahoneybun> feels better with a clean install
[01:29] <alexspassworld> im in here now
[01:29] <alexspassworld> ive locked myself out of my phablet illogically
[01:30] <alexspassworld> no this is definitely what im paying my money for
[01:31] <alexspassworld> what do you guys use your phablets for anyway
[01:31] <alexspassworld> weather displacements
[01:32] <k1l> http://askubuntu.com/a/609944/31260  this should work on the tablet too
[01:35] <alexspassworld> shud  do ye wot if i run in to any trouble
[01:35] <alexspassworld> u was n the other chan and now ur in here i guess u did help tho1#
[01:37] <alexspassworld> im in fastboot mode watch me fly
[01:39] <alexspassworld> im guessing you can do custom boot roms for these things with all software preloaded
[01:39] <alexspassworld> anybody need a dollar
[01:40] <alexspassworld> ?
[01:42] <alexspassworld> i have a microsd card and requisite cable to hand...
[01:42] <alexspassworld> countdown timers at the ready
[01:43] <alexspassworld> officially its stuck in fastboot mode
[01:43] <alexspassworld> k1l: cant seem to getup the recovery menu as mentioned in the faq
[01:45] <alexspassworld> worst faq ever
[01:46] <alexspassworld> so do you guys do custom roms like they do on androids nowadays
[01:48] <alexspassworld> k1l: didn't work!!!
[01:51] <alexspassworld> shame no physical keyboard4
[01:51] <alexspassworld> ill be back
[01:51] <alexspassworld> laters
[03:03] <dobey> that was weird
[03:04] <nhaines> ChrisTownsend: hey, looks like everything's working now.  :D
[09:04] <mcphail> popey: did you ever get scummvm working?
[09:09] <popey> mcphail: not looked at it recently
[09:09] <popey> i got it to launch, play audio, but not take user input. And it didn't scale the screen properly.
[09:13] <peat-psuwit> On my device, unity8 process seems to consume more memory when the screen is rotated. Does it happen on other device?
[09:16] <mcphail> popey: hokay. Might have a look at it next week
[09:17] <popey> sweet!
[09:17] <popey> let me know if you need any help
[09:17] <mcphail> no doubt I will ;)
[10:30] <owaishanif786> hi
[10:40] <marklyford> looking forward to getting my first ubuntu phone coming that i brought on ebay just now :) I tried converting an old HTC desire i had lying around but gave up :)
[11:08] <teve> latest rc-propoced (vegetahd) broke terminal app osk :/
[11:09] <ogra_> works fine on turbo (pro5)
[11:13] <teve> hmm, it's broken for all apps. keyboard flashes and buttons disappear.
[11:14] <davmor2> popey: did you do a scummvm snap too?
[11:14] <popey> no, davidcalle did I think
[11:14] <davmor2> awesome
[11:19] <oftc_ftw> hey all. i know it's probably an old topic, but i only read about it just now: what does it mean that Canonical wants to "integrate these services within the system rather than with dedicated apps" (e.g. WhatsApp and Dropbox). Will Ubuntu touch force me to use it and won't I be able to uninstall proprietary software on a Linux distribution? Are there any more accurate plans on this?
[11:20] <popey> thats not what that means
[11:20] <oftc_ftw> I mean, I'm going to need WhatsApp at some point, but I don't want it to be part of the OS. I need to be able to "contain" this software, disallow the synchronizing of contacts for example.
[11:20] <popey> it means "not having to go and find and launch each and every app individually to access the data within"
[11:20] <oftc_ftw> popey: what does it mean then?
[11:20] <popey> I'm typing :)
[11:20] <oftc_ftw> sry :)
[11:21] <popey> it means that the data will be presented aggregated, so you could have one app or scope which has aggregated all your data, no matter where it lives
[11:21] <popey> so a messaging app which pulls data from multiple messaging platforms
[11:21] <popey> it doesn't mean non-optional baking in all these services you don't like
[11:23] <Acou_Bass> so, using your example, we wont need to download a 'whatsapp app' we just need to tap the 'messaging scope' and itll all be there, similar to how rigt now we tap the 'videos scope' and see content from youtube/vimeo etc
[11:24] <popey> that kind thing, yeah
[11:24] <popey> that's the goal
[11:24] <Acou_Bass> multi-platform messaging app is the 'killer app' for me... i really hope we get one at some point
[11:24] <Acou_Bass> XD
[11:24] <oftc_ftw> i see, that's a relief. but i find it hard to imagine that this is going to work too well for me. it's going to be difficult handling different services then, like maybe i want to sync my contacts to Telegram, but don't want to sync them to WhatsApp. I know, that's maybe a strange approach, but i do treat different apps differently.
[11:25] <Acou_Bass> its the reason i stuck with my n900 for so long, and is the reason i stuck with sailfishOS for a while before jumping to ubuntu
[11:25] <oftc_ftw> i only started using whatsapp since they integrated the encryption protocol. but i rather still don't trust them with my contacts...
[11:25] <ogra_> you are already able to select which service can access which data, it will just become more fine grained
[11:26] <davmor2> oftc_ftw: nope that is fine each app would have to ask for permission to access your contacts have a look at dekko as an example of how that works
[11:26] <ogra_> (i.e. currently only the messaging and phone apps can access the addressbook at all i belive)
[11:26] <oftc_ftw> yeah, but if all services are in one app, will i be able to disallow single services?
[11:26] <oftc_ftw> *distinct
[11:27] <ogra_> like you already are ...
[11:27] <oftc_ftw> i am?
[11:27] <ogra_> install an app that dies video conferencing ..
[11:27] <ogra_> it will ask you if you want to allow mic access ... then it asks you if you want to allow camera access ...
[11:28] <ogra_> a "whatsapp" (i doubt that will ever happen), would then also ask foraccess to the global addressbook
[11:28] <Acou_Bass> i think his point is, if all these mesaging services are all in a singular app
[11:28] <oftc_ftw> you got it wrong, it's the other way around. i want the app to ask me "allow whatsapp to read contacts" and "allow telegram to read contacts".
[11:29] <Acou_Bass> then that permission would be asked for the entire app, not individual accounts in said app
[11:29] <ogra_> by default all apps have to ask you on first access if you permit them to use a resource
[11:29] <Acou_Bass> (or would it?)
[11:29] <ogra_> and you can manage that in the system settings
[11:29] <oftc_ftw> Acou_Bass: you're right
[11:29] <Acou_Bass> so, his workflow of allowing eg. telegram and whatsapp to have seperate permissions within the same app
[11:29] <Acou_Bass> would that work? XD
[11:29] <ogra_> oftc_ftw, other way around ? nope, it is exactly that
[11:30] <ogra_> if you open your hypotethical whatsapp foor the first time it tries to access the addressbook ... and has to ask you
[11:30] <oftc_ftw> ogra_: but there is no whatsapp
[11:30] <oftc_ftw> there is only one app, handling all the services
[11:30] <ogra_> if you once permitted that access a scope that aggregates whatsapp data can make use of it though
[11:31] <Acou_Bass> ahhhh see, so theres a seperate 'whatsapp scope' thatll aggregate in the overall 'messaging scope', but that doesnt help the app, only the scope P
[11:31] <ogra_> sure, even then there will be a permission request
[11:31] <ogra_> Acou_Bass, that is how the aggregation scopes work today, yes
[11:31] <Acou_Bass> the point is, if we get a 'messaging app *not a scope*', with all these protocols in it at once
[11:31] <Acou_Bass> the app itself will ask for permission, not the protocols, yes?
[11:31] <ogra_> you have single scopes or apps that provide the aggregation data
[11:31] <ogra_> have a look at the settings of your today scope
[11:31] <Acou_Bass> yeah i know that
[11:32] <ogra_> you can en/disable the different aggregation services
[11:32] <oftc_ftw> let me check that out
[11:33] <popey> of course this is somewhat academic with no whatsapp on the phone :)
[11:33] <Acou_Bass> the scope aggregation is awesome, BUT, im not sure how it helps with a singular app with multiple protocols
[11:33] <Acou_Bass> unless the app will be an 'aggregator' too
[11:34] <ogra_> indeed :)
[11:34] <Acou_Bass> like... lets say we call it rockdove, to play on pidgin... we install rockdove, it asks for addressbook permissions... would that then give addressbook permissions to ALL the protocols in the app? or would the 'whatsapp protocol' plugin have to request seperately
[11:34] <ogra_> and if theer would ever be a whatsapp, i doubt it would be integrated like that but rather a standalone app
[11:35] <ogra_> (note that this is all completely hypothetical ... today only two apps can access the addessbook)
[11:35] <Acou_Bass> XD yeah this is true
[11:36] <Acou_Bass> suppose we wont know until we have the thing in place
[11:36] <ogra_> right ... but it wont be much different to the other security services we have
[11:36] <ogra_> i think thats a safe assumption
[11:36] <Acou_Bass> i mean i personally have no problem with all the protocols handling addressbook, if i didnt want those protocols handling my data i wouldnt install them in the first place
[11:36] <Acou_Bass> but its an interesting topic :D
[11:38] <oftc_ftw> ogra_: i just installed the today scope to check it out. you meant the settings like "enable location data" and "display results from telegram"?
[11:39] <Acou_Bass> the today scope can display results from loads of different scopes
[11:39] <Acou_Bass> like news, weather, messages/telegram/phone calls etc
[11:39] <Acou_Bass> presumably at some point the 'messaging' scope would be able to display messages from your whatsapp app or whatever
[11:39] <ogra_> oftc_ftw, the latter ... in the official today scope there are like 20 sources you can turn on/off
[11:40] <ogra_> (i think the one you can install from the store is more limited and likely misses all the other collection scopes)
[11:40] <Acou_Bass> is there like, a standard for making scopes able to plug into aggregators? ive noticed some news scopes dont actually aggregate into the news scopes?
[11:40] <ogra_> there surely is
[11:40]  * ogra_ never wrote a scope 
[11:41] <Acou_Bass> hehe
[11:41] <oftc_ftw> ogra_: i couldn't find any other today scope i think
[11:41] <ogra_> i know
[11:41] <ogra_> thats why i said that :)
[11:43] <oftc_ftw> so, what is the latest status on this topic anyway? it's been over a year and i couldn't find any news regarding whatsapp. did i miss it? or is it just not going to happen any time soon.
[11:43] <ogra_> ask facebook
[11:44] <ogra_> they dont allow third party apps ... so they are the only ones that could write and provide one
[11:44] <oftc_ftw> well, that's actually the only thing i found. some dude got banned from whatsapp for asking. :D
[11:44] <ogra_> right
[11:44] <s`> is silent mode working for you?
[11:44] <ogra_> very quietly
[11:44] <oftc_ftw> yeah, but if Canonical is asking, maybe they'd at least give a real answer.
[11:44] <ogra_> (most of the time)
[11:45] <s`> it's turned on, but i can still hear sounds from skype for web
[11:45] <ogra_> oftc_ftw, then the answer is "send $$$$$$$"
[11:45] <oftc_ftw> you think they need it?
[11:45] <ogra_> well, it costs developer time
[11:46] <oftc_ftw> sure, but i guess Canonical is happy to "donate" developer time
[11:47] <oftc_ftw> never mind though, i just thought there might be some follow-up news as there was no official result from those "talks with big services"
[11:47] <ogra_> well, after canonical paid, canonical devs are probably also allowed to work on it
[11:47] <ogra_> first of all they want you to pay for permissions ... and possibly sign an #NDA
[11:48] <ogra_> i highly doubt that will ever hapen though ...
[11:48] <ogra_> either they do it or it wont happen at all
[11:48] <ogra_> it isnt like canonical swims in spare money
[11:50] <oftc_ftw> ok, i see. maybe i'll have to convince people to ditch whatsapp after all.
[11:50] <ogra_> telegram is not a bad alternative
[11:50] <mcphail> s`: the volume control doesn't work for everything
[11:50] <ogra_> i think silent mode excludes media playback ...
[11:51] <ogra_> ... and webapps all use the madie role when playing sound
[11:51] <oftc_ftw> ogra_: it's the worst. they don't have mandatory encryption and make it extremely hard to use the encryption at all.
[11:51] <ogra_> well, they are very supportive to devs and dont ask for money to use their (open) API
[11:51] <oftc_ftw> ogra_: signal is not better, they force you to use goole push services. wtf?
[11:52] <ogra_> i know they iintegrated sevel fixes into their protocol annd server on request of the canonical telegram maintainer before ... and they also happily implemented ubuntu notification support on their side
[11:52] <ogra_> *several
[11:53] <oftc_ftw> ogra_: i'm not saying they're bad people! i'm just saying that there approach to security is rather foolish.
[11:53] <oftc_ftw> *their
[11:53] <ogra_> not sure you will find any other IM provider being that open to OSS devs
[11:54] <ogra_> and you think owhatsapp is any better with that ?
[11:55] <oftc_ftw> ogra_: well, at least they enforce encryption for both, chats and calls. i didn't talk about the stuff they do with the meta data. of course, i'd rather use telegram if it would works like whatsapp.
[11:55] <ogra_> (there is a signal client in the store btw)
[11:56] <oftc_ftw> there is? but it doesn't work for phone calls, does it?
[11:57] <oftc_ftw> oops, got to go. lectures starting in 3 minutes. bbl
[11:58] <oftc_ftw> anyway, are they using some sort of push services? i'm wondering because it's hard to even use signal without the google services on android.
[11:58] <oftc_ftw> there is an unofficial webapi client though
[11:59] <ogra_> oftc_ftw, https://github.com/janimo/textsecure-qml/wiki/Installation
[12:21] <peat-psuwit> On my device, unity8 process seems to consume more memory when the screen is rotated. Does it happen on other device?
[13:08] <tim241> anyone? is it possible to build ubuntu touch with only 22 GB free?
[13:09] <tim241> on my ubuntu PC
[13:12] <dobey> mardy: ping
[13:12] <mardy> dobey: pong
[13:16] <dobey> mardy: hey. so i am apparently able to log in, and errors are being propagated back up to the UI with my branch, but i can't seem to get the credentials to be stored in the db, or attached to the account object in the qml. i don't really understand how that is supposed to work exactly, without cheating and doing everything in the library itself.
[13:18] <mardy> dobey: you mean that the Signon::Identity is not getting created on the DB, or that the token is not getting stored?
[13:19] <dobey> mardy: i guess both. when i create an account, and then poke the signon-secrets.db with sqlite, the tables are still empty
[13:22] <mardy> dobey: and you are sure that you are calling Identity::store()?
[13:23] <dobey> mardy: was your code not doing that?
[13:23] <mardy> dobey: yes it was, but I understood that you were restarting from scratch?
[13:23] <mardy> dobey: can I see your branch?
[13:24]  * mardy brb
[13:24] <dobey> mardy: i mean, you were calling the previously existing hack in libu1 right, not storing the credentials yourself?
[13:24] <dobey> mardy: https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntuone-credentials/signon-plugin-part2/+merge/296716
[13:25] <tim241> anyone? is it possible to build ubuntu touch with only 22 GB free? otr not please answer
[13:25] <dobey> mardy: i'm trying to get rid of that hack
[13:26] <dobey> tim241: no idea, but i'd expect not as phablet-dev-bootstrap i think pulls down at least that much data in the tree
[13:26] <dobey> assuming you're talking about building the kernel for some device and porting to a new one
[13:26] <tim241> hmm ok
[13:28] <tim241> or is it possible to create everything on my network drive from 2 terabyte?
[13:29] <dobey> should be possible, but i don't know how well it will work
[13:29] <tim241> ok
[13:30] <tim241> it will prbably be a little bit slower to build everything
[13:46] <mardy> dobey: the identity was stored in Keyring::storeToken(), like before
[13:47] <mardy> dobey: I thought about removing that, but the only solutions which I could think of are either by adding new public APIs or by making the account plugin talk directly to signond
[13:49] <dobey> mardy: well how does it work for oauth? the Main.qml in any of the oauth plug-ins is obviously not talking directly to signond
[13:57] <mardy> dobey: they use the OAuth component, which does
[13:58] <mardy> dobey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~online-accounts/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts/trunk/view/head:/plugins/module/OAuth.qml
[13:59] <mardy> dobey: and this is my evil branch (requires a new accounts-qml-module, so you can't test it yet): http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mardy/ubuntuone-credentials/account-creation-plugin/view/head:/online-accounts-provider/NewAccount.qml
[13:59] <dobey> mardy: oh hmm. so i guess we need to do the same in u1?
[14:00] <oftc_ftw> ogra_: thanks for the link but reading through the issues reminded me of why signal/textsecure wont work for me: this moxie guy is such a bad person and it hurts me seeing him turning down fully working pull request from nice people offering nice solutions without even a single comment. and as if that weren't enough, he blocks commenting for everyone that doesn't agree 100% with him.
[14:01] <s`> mcphail: dang lol
[14:01] <dobey> mardy: btw, the account plug-in doesn't get loaded for existing accounts does it (ie, when i go into accounts list, and tap on an existing account and see the "Remove" button)?
[14:03] <mardy> dobey: no, that functionality got lost some time ago, and no one has been asking to get it back
[14:04] <dobey> mardy: ok. there's still some cruft in u1 for that which i could probably get rid of too, to simplify things
[14:05] <mardy> dobey: yep
[14:07] <dobey> mardy: why does this need a newer accounts-qml-module?
[14:10] <dobey> oh, i see the OAuthMain.qml still has the options cruft too
[14:13] <mardy> dobey: it needs a new accounts-qml-module because the existing one doesn't allow the client to specify the auth method/mechanism to use (it takes them from the .provider or .service file)
[14:13] <mardy> dobey: and in that branch I've added the account creation functionality as a separate mechanism of the signon plugin
[14:14] <dobey> oh
[14:15] <dobey> not sure we need to do that
[14:19] <mardy> dobey: it was to bypass the lib entirely
[14:20] <mardy> dobey: not needed, but otherwise I think we need to add new APIs to the lib (or keep the hack with storing the token in the secret)
[14:20] <dobey> why would we need new APIs?
[14:21] <mardy> dobey: because we probably don't want an account to be created everytime a client calls SsoService::login (it the account is not there yet)
[14:23] <dobey> mardy: i don't see why that would require new API
[14:23] <mardy> dobey: to be honest, I don't recall the exact details now, but I think that the question I couldn't answer was "how to have the account created by the account plugin, and not by another client"
[14:24] <mardy> dobey: well, indeed checking the QCoreApplication name would be a solution too, but still hacky
[14:25] <mardy> dobey: in the case of the account plugin we want to create an account, if one is not found, while for other clients we want to emit the credentialsNotFound signal
[14:25] <mardy> dobey: so that the client will invoke the account creation via the OnlineAccounts.Client API, like you are doing already now
[14:25] <dobey> mardy: maybe i just don't undersatnd, but doesn't online-accounts-service (or -ui) create the account and set that object on the plug-in?
[14:26] <mardy> dobey: it creates just the account object, in memory. The account is not stored on disk, and its credentials (Signon::Identity object) is not created at all
[14:27] <mardy> dobey: the OAuth module uses a Credentials object (which wraps Signon::Identity) to create the identity
[14:28] <mardy> dobey: https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/apps/qml/sdk-15.04.4/Ubuntu.OnlineAccounts.Credentials/
[14:29] <dobey> oh right, and that has always been our problem. that online-accounts is designed primarily around the needs of the oauth plug-in, and overengineered for anything else
[14:32] <mardy> dobey: not much, look at my class or at the owncloud plugin, it's not that horrible: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mardy/account-plugins/owncloud-1570986/view/head:/qml/owncloud/NewAccount.qml
[14:38] <dobey> mardy: but that's just using username/password, and using displayName to store the host name for the server.
[14:45] <mhall119> oSoMoN: did the webbrowser-app get it's own cursor theme?
[14:48] <mardy> dobey: yes, but my branch for the U1 plugin is not doing much more; it's just calling the authenticate() method, just like the OAuth plugins
[14:49] <dobey> but it has to reimplement all of what's in the lib
[14:50] <oSoMoN> mhall119, cursor theme? not that I know of, why do you ask?
[14:52] <mhall119> oSoMoN: the loading spinner is new, and pretty
[14:53] <oSoMoN> mhall119, that’s on desktop?
[14:53] <oSoMoN> under unity8
[14:53] <oSoMoN> ?
[14:59] <mhall119> no, Unity 7
[14:59] <mhall119> maybe it's a Qt thing?
[15:22] <davenull> What's the square wireless icon seen in this screenshot: https://unsee.cc/muribato/ ?
[15:22] <dobey> mardy: and we still need to use the lib for pay-ui anyway
[15:22] <davenull> Or what does it refer to?
[15:22] <dobey> davenull: probably ad-hoc networks
[15:23] <mardy> dobey: in the short term yes, but I understood that you were considering ditching it in a far future
[15:24] <davenull> dobey: Makes sense.  Thanks!
[15:24] <dobey> mardy: i'd rather avoid having to duplicate code, and i don't see how to not use the lib without duplicating code
[15:25] <dobey> davenull: it's not a 'square' exactly. it's supposed to look like a PC monitor i think, to indicate it's ad-hoc
[15:25] <mardy> dobey: I see your point, but the duplication (of functionality, not of code) is minimal, the signon plugin doesn't grow a lot with the register functionality added
[15:26] <dobey> mardy: i'm not talking about registraion, that's irrelevant. pay-ui doesn't handle registration
[15:26] <mardy> dobey: right, we could remove it from the lib once the plugin doesn't need it
[15:26] <davenull> dobey: Yeah, but it's more square than the triangle icon. ;-)
[15:26] <dobey> mardy: i'm talking about login(), the UI bits for it, and propagation of errors from the signon plug-in up to the UI
[15:27] <mardy> dobey: I don't see duplication there, login() is becoming just a tiny wrapper
[15:27] <dobey> and findToken()
[15:28] <mardy> dobey: no duplication there either, strictly speaking. Just wrapping, and that's the price we have to pay if we want to keep the API stable
[15:28] <dobey> mardy: of course it's wrapping. that's how you get rid of duplication, by wrapping things
[15:29] <dobey> and exposing the wrapper as API in a shared library
[15:29] <dobey> plus we need the Token() object to remain public API for signing things
[15:30] <mardy> dobey: yes... so what is there that you don't like? Or did I read a complaint which was not there? :-)
[15:30] <dobey> i don't like duplicating code
[15:31] <mardy> dobey: uh, I don't follow you; you just wrote that we are not duplicating code
[15:32] <dobey> mardy: no, what i said was that getting rid of the library would require duplicating code
[15:36] <dobey> in fact, we are currently duplicating some of the UI code in pay-ui, due to the way things are in ubuntuone-credentials; but i'd like to fix that in the future
[15:40] <mardy> dobey: well, if that's the case, we can make a version-2 of the lib, with just that code that would otherwise be duplicated
[15:41] <dobey> mardy: right. plan would be to break abi at some point, but want to get the current major things taken care of before doing that.
[15:47] <dobey> anyway, need to get lunch. later
[15:55] <patrice_> any know how I can mount ubuntu touch root file system onto my ubuntu desktop via usb?
[15:57] <ogra_> you cant
[15:57] <ogra_> it is only exported via MTP ... and that is limited to directories under your home
[15:58] <ogra_> you can enable ssh and mount the system via sshfs, that lets you browse the whole filesystem
[17:56] <walmdach> Any way to install iperf client on phone?  $dpkg --search iperf   return dpkg-query: No path found matching pattern *iperf*
[17:57] <dobey> you shouldn't use dpkg/apt to install things on the phone anyway. only in a chroot or libertine container
[17:57] <dobey> walmdach: https://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone/623311#623311
[17:59] <walmdach> dobey: Will have to read up on libertine.
[17:59] <walmdach> dobey: and chroot
[18:00] <s`> libertine wasnt usable for me
[18:00] <s`> i click on the container but nothing happens lol
[18:00] <s`> i think i'll try to destroy and create it again
[18:27] <ChrisTownsend> s`: What do you mean you "click on the container and it doesn't work"?  You mean click the container name in the Libertine GUI>
[18:27] <ChrisTownsend> ?
[18:28] <s`> yea
[18:31] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Ok, until recently, there wasn't a default action when tapping/clicking the container name.  You need to slide the container name to the left to get the actions.  But what you need to do is install some packages.  Then install the Libertine Scope from the Store to surface and launch apps.
[18:32] <s`> ChrisTownsend: i think i created a container and installed firefox (just for testing)
[18:32] <s`> but i went out for dinner and forgot it was installing things via ssh lol
[18:32] <s`> so it may be corrupted
[18:32] <s`> idk
[18:33] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Ok, so then you need the Libertine Scope.  The GUI is only for managing the containers, not launching X apps.
[18:33] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Sure, it's possible the container wasn't fully created either:)
[18:34] <s`> ChrisTownsend: ok thanks, i'll look for the scope, so the best way in that case would be destroy and create it again?
[18:34] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Yeah, I would start over given the state of the container is unknown.
[18:35] <s`> ChrisTownsend: just installed the scope and well, firefox started, it's very slow though lol
[18:36] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Ok, cool.  On an N4?
[18:36] <s`> meizu pro 5
[18:36] <s`> well not that slow, took a few secs
[18:36] <s`> at the beginning was a black screen
[18:36] <s`> then it slowly rendered
[18:37] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Yeah, it takes a bit to spin it all up.  And it's software rendered, so it's not going to be blazing fast.
[18:37] <s`> anyways, it's completely unusable from the device right?
[18:37] <s`> i mean, you can use libertibe apps only with mouse and keyboard and external screen right?
[18:38] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Well, I don't think the X apps are very useful in phone mode.  They are a bit better in a tablet w/ a larger screen.  But the best experience the keyboard/mouse and external monitor.
[18:39] <ChrisTownsend> s`: But nothing stops you from using the X apps in phone mode, except, well, your patience:)
[18:40] <s`> ChrisTownsend: ok, but if i click on the url bar, the keyboard doesnt even appear
[18:40] <dobey> yes, that's known and being worked on
[18:40] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Oh, right, that.  We are working on it right now:)
[18:40] <dobey> they are legacy apps for a reason
[18:40] <s`> very nice
[18:40] <s`> thanks for working on it
[18:41] <s`> anyways, yeah firefox's really slow
[18:41] <s`> :D
[18:42] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Sure, you're welcome.
[18:42] <dobey> firefox isn't exactly a speed demon, even with hardware accel on an i7 :)
[18:42] <s`> dobey: ikr :D
[18:46] <s`> ChrisTownsend, dobey sorry for this stupid question... i got into the libertine scope right after installing it from the store
[18:46] <s`> but where do i access it from normally?
[18:46] <s`> i cant find it
[18:47] <ChrisTownsend> s': There is the little Up arrow in the bottom of the Scopes.  Slide that up to Manage scopes. Then look for "XApps"
[18:47] <ChrisTownsend> s` ^^^^
[18:48] <ChrisTownsend> (backtick is throwing me off:)
[18:49] <s`> aaah now i got it
[18:50] <s`> i had this device for a while now and i didnt know how to activate scopes LOL
[18:50] <s`> i was installing them from the store
[18:50] <s`> but didnt know how to activate them
[18:50] <s`> :D
[18:50] <ChrisTownsend> Col
[18:50] <ChrisTownsend> Cool even
[18:51] <s`> ok now i have activated legacy apps and xapps
[18:51] <s`> scopes
[18:51] <s`> what's the difference? i can see firefox in both of them
[18:52] <dobey> you can favorite it
[18:52] <dobey> you have two different versions of libertine scope installed i guess
[18:54] <s`> uhm
[18:54] <s`> could have i installed it from apt?
[18:55] <s`> dobey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Libertine
[18:55] <s`> i run few days ago commands listed here
[18:55] <dobey> s`: what device are ou on?
[18:56] <s`> meizu pro 5
[18:56] <dobey> that is old, i don't think you need to change / to rw and install anything
[18:56] <s`> ah lol
[18:56] <s`> i executed all those commands
[18:56] <s`> ahahah
[18:56] <s`> so... is it safe to purge those packages?
[18:57] <dobey> well, libertine-scope should be fine to purge
[18:58] <dobey> ChrisTownsend: ^^ is that wiki page still relevant at all?
[18:59] <dobey> also the comment about confinement for terminal app is a bit odd, since it's unconfined
[18:59] <ChrisTownsend> dobey: Well, it's mostly relevant.  Need to remove the libertine-scope from that list and suggest using the Store for it.
[18:59] <ChrisTownsend> dobey: terminal-app is confined in some respect.
[19:00] <dobey> ChrisTownsend: ah, i guess -pd image is still a bit different than non-pd images?
[19:00] <ChrisTownsend> dobey: Yes, today.  We are merging the two very soon.
[19:00] <dobey> yeah. thought that was already done :)
[19:02] <ChrisTownsend> dobey: *something* when using terminal app redirects /tmp to /run/user/32100/tmp.blah and xserver does not like /tmp to be somewhere else.  And it being a chroot, xserver fails to install when using terminal-app.
[19:02] <s`> guys am i crazy to use pro5 as main device?
[19:02] <s`> i mean, it's actually my main device :\
[19:02] <dobey> ChrisTownsend: oh, weird
[19:03] <dobey> s`: i don't know what you're asking. i've been using ubuntu only on a phone for over 2 years
[19:03] <ChrisTownsend> s`: Personally, as a main device, I would probably leave it ro only and take stable updates.  But yeah, using Ubuntu on the phone works fine for my uses.
[19:03] <ChrisTownsend> dobey: It is weird.
[19:04] <s`> well it looks stable enough
[19:05] <dobey> heck, i didn't even have working GPS for 2 years, and still don't have bluetooth
[19:05] <s`> personally i'd need only support for audio/video calls
[19:05] <s`> dobey: same
[19:05] <s`> this is my first LTE capable device
[19:05] <s`> lol
[19:06] <s`> ok, i'll try to purge that deb
[19:06] <s`> let's see what happens
[19:07] <dobey> oh, i've had LTE working the whole time :)
[19:07] <dobey> i use a nexus 5
[19:07] <s`> cool
[19:07] <dobey> oh, and terrible battery life on a device that' not been officially supported :)
[19:08] <s`> legacy apps scope disappeared
[19:09] <s`> so, LXC is supported right? any plan to support docker too? :D
[20:12] <merpnderp> Is there an RDP client for ubuntu-touch, like rdesktop?
[20:15] <OerHeks> no rdp or vnc .. yet https://uappexplorer.com/apps?q=rdp&sort=relevance
[20:17] <s`> i wonder if you could install it inside a container, merpnderp have u tried?
[20:18] <merpnderp> s` no, don't have an ubuntu phone.
[20:18] <merpnderp> But if I could RDP into windows, I'd order All Teh Ubuntu Phonez!
[20:19] <s`> merpnderp: it should be possible to install it in a container, but then you would probably need a bluetooth mouse and keyboard
[20:19] <merpnderp> s` You're saying install RDP in a container? Like a virtual ARM windows install?
[20:21] <s`> merpnderp: in ubuntu touch you can create container (chroot or lxc based) where you can install x11-apps
[20:22] <merpnderp> s` oh wow. That would be perfect. Googling around I don't see that anyone has done that yet.
[20:22] <s`> merpnderp: u can have an idea looking at this page i think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Libertine
[20:22] <s`> but it needs to be updated
[20:23] <s`> because that was before libertine was officialy released i think
[20:23] <s`> someone corrects me if im wrong
[20:24] <s`> it says "Libertine is not currently available as a click package because it's a developer preview and not yet ready for general consumption."
[20:24] <s`> but now it is available actually
[20:25] <merpnderp> I'm not very familiar with ubuntu touch, but couldn't I just open a terminal in it and install from there?
[20:25] <s`> yeah, you can do that for term-based packages
[20:25] <s`> but they cant spawn an x11 session
[20:25] <s`> i think
[20:25] <bregma> merpnderp, nope, you need to set up a libertine container and install from there
[20:26] <s`> dont really know how it works
[20:26] <bregma> you can not install a deb package on Touch withut probably breaking your system
[20:26] <s`> yeah if you would to display x11 windows you will need to install them inside a container
[20:26] <dobey> merpnderp, s`: no, you shouldn't install additional packages into the base image
[20:26] <merpnderp> bregma: I'm confused because the videos show plugging in a HDMI cable and using the phone in desktop mode.
[20:26] <bregma> merpnderp, that has nothing to do with debs
[20:26] <merpnderp> oh, I see
[20:26] <s`> dobey: oh really? i installed the erlang virtual machine on my system :D
[20:27] <bregma> s`, it's  up to you if you want to risk breaking yuor system
[20:27] <dobey> s`: yes, you will break your system if you do. phones aren't PCs, even with convergence
[20:27] <bregma> we do not recommend it
[20:27] <s`> i see thanks
[20:27] <dobey> s`: see https://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone/623311#623311
[20:27] <s`> thank you
[20:28] <s`> ok so i just install them inside a chroot
[20:28] <s`> dobey: how exactly that can break my system? just curious
[20:28] <bregma> s`, that will work
[20:29] <dobey> s`: in a chroot is fine. rw / and installing there is not
[20:29] <s`> yeah i got that, but i mean, why
[20:29] <bregma> what dobey said
[20:29] <s`> what could happen?
[20:29] <dobey> s`: / is only 2 GB, so it will fill up very quickly if you start screwing with apt
[20:29] <dobey> s`: and when you install image updates, stuff can get uninstalled, but space remain consumed and such
[20:30] <dobey> there's a reason / is shipped read-only
[20:30] <s`> dobey: oh actually i compiled it from the sources under /userdata :P
[20:31] <s`> but i think i tried to use apt first
[20:31] <s`> lol
[20:31] <s`> oh dobey that happened to me
[20:31] <s`> like on the very first day
[20:32] <s`> i tried to mount bind a directory
[20:32] <s`> but when i rebooted the device the fstab resetted
[20:32] <s`> and i couldnt find my apps anymore
[20:32] <s`> so i had to manually delete the old files and reinstall from store
[20:32] <dobey> no idea what you did there
[20:33] <s`> ahaha no problem i figured it out :D
[20:33] <s`> thanks for the tips
[20:34] <s`> dobey: is systemd completely ported to ubuntu touch now?
[20:34] <dobey> no
[20:35] <dobey> and you got that backwards
[20:35] <s`> oh well, im happy with that
[20:35] <s`> i mean, i dont really want systemd
[20:35] <s`> :\
[20:37] <dobey> well you'll get it soon enough
[20:37] <dobey> and part of it is already there anyway
[20:37] <s`> yeah i saw
[20:38] <dobey> not sure why it matters
[20:38] <s`> dont want to start a flame :D
[20:38] <s`> ahah
[20:48] <Muldy> yay just resurected a nexus4 with a broken screen 8)
[20:48] <merpnderp> Does ubuntu-touch have some way of hooking up to mozilla's push notification server? Or does Ubuntu have one devs can use?
[20:49] <merpnderp> I guess that must already be working since twitter and facebook notifications are added.
[21:03] <dobey> merpnderp: twitter/fb/google notifications are not push. they're polled. ubuntu does have a push notifications API and server that can be used, but it requires server side integration for things like google/fb/twitter/etc
[21:04] <dobey> telegram has ubuntu push support
[21:04] <merpnderp> dobey: is anyone besides telegram using the push API?
[21:05] <merpnderp> Because for messaging, push is a must.
[21:05] <dobey> merpnderp: system update notifications are via push
[21:15] <merpnderp> I never saw which browser comes default. Firefox?
[21:17] <dobey> no, a browsesr based on cromium content api that is designed for ubuntu phones
[21:37] <merpnderp> dobey: so the Ubuntu JS engine is also V8?
[21:53] <merpnderp> I mean for Ubuntu Touch for the UI....although I guess this is all in the dev docs. I'll have to look through them after work.
[22:43] <ShaneQful> Hey just got the OTA update, any idea when the browser will be updated saw the unerlying engine has been updated in the repo, any idea when that'll reach the tablet ?
[22:44] <ShaneQful> Sites are started to block usage because the chrome version in the useragent is so old :(