[09:41] <sakrecoer> i don't feel it is particularily important to ship a menu editor. Installing one is a matter of clicking in gnome software or edit the file manualy. it's not like we break user space by not providing a tool for editing the menu, shipping a menu editor that breaks the menu is breaking userspace...
[09:45] <sakrecoer> but since whisker was integrated i rarly use the menu tbh, so i don't know. on the other hand i sort of feel that if one is unhappy with the way the ubuntustudio is made, they should edit it of course, but i find it hard to see where our responsability is for that. then again, it becomes our responsability if the editor we provide is broken...
[09:46] <sakrecoer> i would think of it differently, if not shipping a menu editor would render the menu uneditable.
[09:46] <sakrecoer> ^ OvenWerks autumna 
[09:47] <sakrecoer> at the end of the day, we are supposed to provide a multimedia produciton tool. we do not specialize in desktop environement production so to speak...
[09:59] <sakrecoer> so i'd rather see us focusing on our menu, than on tools to change the menu we focused on doing :D
[10:01] <sakrecoer> so unless menulibre is being fixed in time for next release, i'm in favour of removing it. spending time on finding an alternative is imho a waste of our time.
[11:11] <autumna> sakrecoer (and OvenWerks) my main concern was the fact that we will get help requests either way, but I definitely agree thinking over. (menulibre is badly breaking the menu as it stands) and I think OvenWerks totally did look for all possible alternatives, there currently isn't any
[12:15] <sakrecoer> autumna: i think we would get way less helprequest about the menu if we don't ship an editor. if we don't we can link to documentation about how to do it, and recommend/warn about existing apps for the purpose.
[12:16] <sakrecoer> if we ship a menu editor, the users will rightfully think we _should_ support them for the troubles they get with it
[12:17] <sakrecoer> not that i have been here very very long, but i never saw a techsupport request for menu editing until that bug surfaced...
[12:18] <sakrecoer> a few suggestions and requests about how the menu should be organized are probably more of a regular thing.
[12:18] <sakrecoer> obviousy, having an editor would remove those, but yeah, seems we all agree having a broken editor is just bad :D
[12:19] <sakrecoer> and removing it from our distro isn't going to stop people from installing one or edit manualy..
[13:31] <autumna> sakrecoer: believe me I know. :D and as for support requests, back when I was a boring old user, and trying to edit my menu, I remember there was other people asking the same question. but was this in ubuntu studio package or elsewhere? who knows, but anyway. as I said I agree with both of you that removing it is probably the best solution right now
[13:31] <autumna> unless it gets fixed. :D
[14:49] <OvenWerks> I would suggest it will never be fixed.
[14:51] <OvenWerks> It would be possible to fix alacart. Alacart really only lacks some functionallity. menulibre on the other hand is based (in my opinion) on a wrong way of doing things in the first place. Menu libre would require A total rewrite.
[15:00] <OvenWerks> In other words, even if menulibre was to fix the starting point of where it got it's menu spec from... basically redoing the whole menu in user space means that new changes to the system menu will not show up as they should.
[15:00] <OvenWerks> really, writing a menu editor is far from trivial.
[19:34] <geirdal> I will need some specs for background images!
[20:41] <OvenWerks> geirdal: there are two kinds of backdrops: 1) Default ISO, Needs to neutral enough that a business (like a portait shop) can use it where customers can see it. 2) Included extra choices, no sex based or copyrighted material... pretty much anything else is fine.
[20:57] <sakrecoer> geirdal: you mean for the website right? 
[20:58] <sakrecoer> anyways, like OvenWerks says: "no sex based or copyrighted material" 
[20:58] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Ahh, I hadn't thought about the website :)
[20:58] <sakrecoer> then, like the emails says: "something that illustrates the workflow, while it lets the text-content
[20:58] <sakrecoer> be easily readable"
[20:59] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: i think it was easy to get confused there.
[21:00] <sakrecoer> geirdal: 3 images. 1 for graphics workflow, 1 for audio workflow, 1 for video workflow.
[21:00] <sakrecoer> geirdal: if you have more questions about that, you are very welcome to ask on the mailing list, so we can all be on the same page.
[21:07] <sakrecoer> geirdal: don't worry if you don't feel inspired. as long as you let us know in good time that you're not feeling it. i'd like to have the content ready for week 9 in this schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
[21:08] <sakrecoer> (that is june 23rd)
[21:09] <sakrecoer> g'night y'all! read you tomorrow :)