| mrjoeyman | Does the latest version of Mate utilize Snap? | 02:21 |
|---|---|---|
| aym | HexChat: 2.9.6 ** OS: Linux 4.4.0-24-lowlatency x86_64 ** Distro: Debian jessie/sid ** CPU: 8 x AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (AuthenticAMD) @ 1,40GHz ** RAM: Physical: 15,6GB, 75,7% free ** Disk: Total: 2,9TB, 19,1% free ** VGA: NVIDIA Corporation GF110 [GeForce GTX 580] ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB1: USB-Audio - USB Device 0x46d:0x8252: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia3: Audigy2 - SB Audigy 2 ZS [SB0350a] * | 03:05 |
| aym | * Ethernet: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. CIe Gigabit Ethernet ** Uptime: 16h 19m 0s ** | 03:05 |
| === stooj_ is now known as stooj | ||
| fifty-sevenC_ | What's up people? | 04:57 |
| === fifty-sevenC_ is now known as fifty-sevenC | ||
| phoenixi | is ubuntu mate arm heavy for raspberry pi 3 | 06:34 |
| phoenixi | my pi seems a bit slower then raspbian | 06:34 |
| phoenixi | especially on the mozilla firefox browser | 06:34 |
| alkisg | Firefox on raspbian should be the same as firefox on mate... | 06:35 |
| alkisg | On the other hand, mate probably needs more RAM, more disk access etc, so a faster SD card or external disk would be better | 06:35 |
| phoenixi | its class 10 16gb | 06:36 |
| alkisg | And you think firefox is faster on raspbian vs mate? | 06:36 |
| phoenixi | no. I didn't really install firefox on raspbian | 06:37 |
| alkisg | (09:34:46 πμ) phoenixi: especially on the mozilla firefox browser | 06:37 |
| * alkisg shrugs... | 06:37 | |
| phoenixi | I just want to know if firefox is heavy on raspbian | 06:37 |
| alkisg | You should be asking on #raspbian then, no? | 06:37 |
| phoenixi | if yes then maybe I should checkout other browsers | 06:37 |
| alkisg | In general, rpi is 50 times slower than e.g. a core i3 | 06:38 |
| phoenixi | sorry, i meant mate* | 06:38 |
| alkisg | No it's not heavy, but rpi3 has a very slow cpu, so all things run slower there | 06:38 |
| phoenixi | alkisg, ok :+1: | 06:39 |
| alkisg | :) | 06:39 |
| phoenixi | Sorry, I didn't knew emojis don't work on irc :sweat_smile: :P | 06:39 |
| phoenixi | mate locks after some time of inactivity | 06:43 |
| phoenixi | after that time, will ssh work or not? | 06:44 |
| ouroumov | it will work | 06:44 |
| alkisg | If you mean the screensaver, sure, it will work | 06:44 |
| alkisg | If you mean that mate hangs, it's another question... | 06:44 |
| phoenixi | thanks ouroumov , alkisg | 06:45 |
| phoenixi | I mean the sceensaver alkisg | 06:45 |
| alkisg | OK | 06:45 |
| phoenixi | Why are some versions of software on `apt` not the latest versions | 06:49 |
| phoenixi | for instance, the version of vagrant on apt is 1.4.x and on the official website it is 1.9.x | 06:50 |
| phoenixi | That is a huge difference ,isn't it? | 06:50 |
| alkisg | Linux distributions freeze at the point of their release | 06:51 |
| alkisg | And the software needs to be tested before it's released there | 06:51 |
| alkisg | So they usually have the version of software that shipped up to 1 year before their release | 06:52 |
| ouroumov | !latest | phoenixi | 06:52 |
| ubottu | phoenixi: Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa. | 06:52 |
| alkisg | "Rolling" distributions have more up to date software, but they're more unstable as well. | 06:52 |
| guest-nkA7NX | hey | 06:53 |
| alkisg | Hi | 06:53 |
| guest-nkA7NX | are you single | 06:53 |
| alkisg | ...go chat elsewhere, this is a support channel | 06:54 |
| guest-nkA7NX | oh realy? SRRY MAN | 06:54 |
| === apessoa is now known as Guest11140 | ||
| WattisLove | Hi. Why does some packages want to uninstall ubuntu-mate-desktop? | 07:43 |
| alkisg | WattisLove: Which package specifically and what command? | 07:52 |
| WattisLove | libreoffice, vlc, firefox, many of them really. Happens both with "apt-get remove" and "apt-get purge" | 07:53 |
| WattisLove | alkisg ^ | 07:53 |
| alkisg | A desktop environment consists/depends on some packages | 07:54 |
| alkisg | Run this: apt show ubuntu-mate-desktop | 07:54 |
| alkisg | See the "Depends" line | 07:54 |
| WattisLove | but not the other way around, right? I'm only changing a program version. Why do I have to remove the whole desktop environment as well? | 07:54 |
| WattisLove | Depends line is very large | 07:55 |
| alkisg | If any of those packages is removed, then mate will be uninstalled too | 07:55 |
| alkisg | If that line was "Recommends:" instead, then you would be able to uninstall any of them without issues | 07:55 |
| WattisLove | So I can't change versions/replace programs/uninstall unwanted programs at all? | 07:56 |
| ouroumov | alkisg, I'm pretty sure those are meta-packages | 07:56 |
| ouroumov | And that they are safe to remove (read it on the forum on several threads) | 07:57 |
| alkisg | ouroumov, WattisLove, it depends | 07:57 |
| alkisg | If one installs mate, which then installs firefox etc, | 07:57 |
| alkisg | and then removes firefox, which then uninstalls the mate metapackage, | 07:57 |
| WattisLove | It wasn't like this in 14.04, I could uninstall programs right out of the box. BTW ouroumov you're brining back memories | 07:57 |
| alkisg | all is fine up to that point, | 07:57 |
| alkisg | *but* | 07:57 |
| alkisg | if after that, someone does: apt purge --auto-remove, to automatically clean packages, | 07:58 |
| alkisg | then all other packages in Depends will be uninstalled too | 07:58 |
| ouroumov | uh | 07:58 |
| alkisg | And that will be a big, unexpected mess | 07:58 |
| WattisLove | that sounds scary as hell | 07:58 |
| alkisg | So, what one can do, is mark all of them as manually installed | 07:58 |
| alkisg | I.e. `apt install firefox vlc etc etc` | 07:58 |
| alkisg | then autoremove won't remove them even if the metapackage is removed | 07:58 |
| WattisLove | If I apt-get install any of those packages I get "already newest version", does that count as marking them as menually installed? | 07:59 |
| alkisg | In previous versions, apt install marked the package as manually installed, | 08:00 |
| alkisg | I don't have time to check currently, if that's not the case anymore, some other command will be needed to mark them | 08:00 |
| WattisLove | ah, you're saying "apt install" not "apt-get install" alkisg ? | 08:00 |
| alkisg | It's the same now in 16.04 | 08:01 |
| WattisLove | alkisg, isn't this some sort of bug? I don't think they planned it to be this way (either the ubuntu or the mate devs) or did they? | 08:01 |
| alkisg | They did | 08:01 |
| alkisg | E.g. suppose you have lubuntu and you want to try mate | 08:01 |
| alkisg | You install the mate metapackage, then remove it, then autoremove packages, and you're left with what you had previously | 08:02 |
| alkisg | If autoremove didn't work that way, you would have a hard time uninstalling desktop environments | 08:02 |
| alkisg | What is debatable is "Depends" vs "Recommends" | 08:02 |
| WattisLove | But couldn't they make it different for those who downloaded the OS instead of instaling it on top of their current DE? | 08:02 |
| alkisg | If mate recommented firefox, then you would be able to uninstall it without also losing the metapackage | 08:02 |
| alkisg | No, it would be the same however the installed the DE | 08:03 |
| WattisLove | Isn't there some verified fix posted somewhere? I really need to downgrade libreoffice. What way should I take? | 08:03 |
| alkisg | You don't need to uninstall it in order to downgrade it | 08:04 |
| alkisg | You can just apt install libreoffice=specific-version | 08:04 |
| WattisLove | there are no other versions available | 08:04 |
| alkisg | That won't remove the metapackage | 08:04 |
| alkisg | How were you planning to install the previous version? | 08:04 |
| alkisg | Won't you use some ppa or .deb package? | 08:04 |
| WattisLove | exactly like you said above | 08:04 |
| alkisg | Then the apt line will still work without removing the metapackag | 08:05 |
| alkisg | e | 08:05 |
| alkisg | I.e. just don't run `apt remove` | 08:05 |
| alkisg | Install whatever you like, maybe even apt pin it, but don't remove it | 08:05 |
| WattisLove | I checked for other available versions with showpkg or something like that but there were none, actually there are no older versions for any other packages | 08:05 |
| WattisLove | So the only option is to manually download the older version, uninstall the current one and install the other, but I didn't expect these complications | 08:06 |
| alkisg | You can install a deb without removing the package first | 08:07 |
| alkisg | It will downgrade the package without removing the metapackage | 08:07 |
| alkisg | "uninstall the current one and install the other" ==> i.e. only do the "install the other" part | 08:07 |
| WattisLove | ok, that makes me really feel better. But what if I needed to replace libreoffice with openoffice? to avoid conflicts one has to be uninstalled. What would I do in that case? | 08:08 |
| alkisg | You could mark all packages as manually installed, or not ever run autoremove, or file a bug report to mate so that they're recommented and not depended upon | 08:09 |
| WattisLove | let me see, so if I mark all those Depends pkgs as Manually installed, I would be able to remove any of them, is that correct? | 08:10 |
| alkisg | Yes | 08:10 |
| WattisLove | ok, how do I quickly mark all of them as that? | 08:11 |
| alkisg | previously it was apt-get install packages | 08:11 |
| alkisg | I don't know if anything changed in 16.04, please google it, I don't have much time now, multitasking too much... :) | 08:11 |
| WattisLove | ok, thank you | 08:11 |
| alkisg | You're welcome | 08:13 |
| WattisLove | I think I'm gonna file that bug report anyway cause this is really grave. I was seconds away from screwing up my system like never before and I'm quite sure other newbies have suffered the consequences already. Where do I go to file it? | 08:13 |
| alkisg | !bug | 08:15 |
| ubottu | If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command « ubuntu-bug <package> » - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs. | 08:15 |
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: it's not a bug | 08:18 |
| WattisLove | a feature? | 08:19 |
| gordonjcp | well, it's a design decision | 08:19 |
| gordonjcp | there's no good reason to remove libreoffice | 08:19 |
| WattisLove | my reasons aren't good reasons? | 08:20 |
| gordonjcp | there are subtle distinctions between what would happen if it was in "Depends" or "Recommends" clause | 08:20 |
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: well, why do you want to remove it? | 08:20 |
| WattisLove | if I was to replace it with openoffice. Not only that, you should be able to remove software you don't use or replace it by your preferred programs | 08:21 |
| Switches | 'sudo apt remove libreoffice libreoffice-common' removes almost all of it bar for a few libs that other apps use (can't remember which ones they were though) | 08:23 |
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: you'd be able to use dpkg rather than apt to remove the specific package | 08:24 |
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: you may then need to create a dummy package to fix the dependency, which is a bit messy | 08:24 |
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: or you could modify your OpenOffice package to satisfy the LibreOffice dependency | 08:24 |
| WattisLove | what I can't do, shockingly, is uninstall packages like it's always been done | 08:26 |
| alkisg | https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html | 08:27 |
| alkisg | Recommends This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. | 08:27 |
| alkisg | I think that this matches quite well what libreoffice is for mate | 08:27 |
| alkisg | I.e. IMHO, it should be recommented, not depended upon | 08:27 |
| WattisLove | agreed | 08:28 |
| alkisg | Unfortunately there are some distros that don't respect that, or disable the installation of recommented packages by default (like mint), | 08:28 |
| alkisg | and thus the developers sometimes resort to "Depends" to solve those other issues | 08:28 |
| gordonjcp | alkisg: one of the Frequently Whined About Questions with Kicad is why doesn't it have any libraries | 08:28 |
| alkisg | I.e. apt install mate-desktop on mint, wouldn't install any of the recommented packages, because mint decided to use 'no-install-recommends' in apt | 08:29 |
| WattisLove | So marking them as recommended to avoid the mess isn't possible in Ubuntu16-based Mint distros? | 08:30 |
| alkisg | (so again IMHO, the mint distribution integration is really problematic) | 08:30 |
| alkisg | Another bug report would be needed there, in mint, to respect the debian policy and apt defaults | 08:30 |
| WattisLove | I'm so glad I didn't download mint 17.3 (the latest one) | 08:31 |
| alkisg | But mint uses custom scripts to generate the CDs anyway, so it would be easy to just install mate with --install-recommends on cd build time | 08:31 |
| gordonjcp | there are good arguments for *not* installing recommends, too | 08:34 |
| gordonjcp | there's good arguments either way | 08:34 |
| gordonjcp | it's fine if you know what you're doing | 08:35 |
| alkisg | debian policy, apt defaults, should be reflected in distros, and sysadmins/users should be able to override those that they're allowed to | 08:35 |
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: anyway to go back to what you wanted to do | 08:35 |
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: look at the Depends and Recommends for Libreoffice | 08:36 |
| === rw is now known as Guest98605 | ||
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: then use dpkg to remove them, instead of apt | 08:36 |
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: you can pass something like "--no-depends" to it, can't remember the exact syntax | 08:36 |
| alkisg | gordonjcp: running apt after using dpkg still has issues | 08:36 |
| alkisg | E.g. upgrading mate-desktop will force libreoffice reinstallation | 08:36 |
| WattisLove | I've never had success with dpkg, not once. I'll try marking pkgs as manually installed. I'm reading about this command "apt-mark" now | 08:37 |
| alkisg | Anyway, /me goes afk for a bit... | 08:37 |
| gordonjcp | alkisg: yeah, you need to install a dummy package | 08:37 |
| gordonjcp | I don't think there's any real downside to installing Libreoffice *and* OpenOffice | 08:38 |
| WattisLove | there's a problem with "soffice" | 08:38 |
| gordonjcp | WattisLove: what kind of problem? | 08:48 |
| WattisLove | link issues I think. | 08:50 |
| WattisLove | https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=62509 | 08:50 |
| WattisLove | "When installing, both programs write the soffice core program link in /usr/bin/. This conflict prevents both programs from installation in Ubuntu. You will get an error trying to overwrite /usr/bin/soffice." | 08:51 |
| gordonjcp | so you move /usr/bin/soffice | 08:58 |
| alkisg | If it's marked with dpkg, moving it won't help, dpkg-divert will be needed | 09:06 |
| WattisLove | I just don't like the word "conflict" | 09:07 |
| gordonjcp | alkisg: true | 09:11 |
| Casablanca | goodbye | 11:24 |
| dave30 | hi im looking for help with awk, any1? | 12:41 |
| alkisg | There's a dedicated #awk channel for that | 12:47 |
| dave30 | thanks :) | 12:50 |
| jeroen__ | Hello world :-) | 13:22 |
| jeroen__ | I am new to Linux and the ubuntu mate distribution. I just installed it and im having fun exploring the ins and outs. Is it possible to install office 365 applications on a ubuntu device? | 13:24 |
| ouroumov_ | No idea, but I doubt it | 13:24 |
| jeroen__ | ah ok, LibreOffice is the alternative? | 13:26 |
| ouroumov_ | yes | 13:26 |
| jeroen__ | ok thanks | 13:26 |
| sixwheeledbeast | LibreOffice works fine, if Office is necessary try running in Wine. Alternatively I believe Office 365 will work in most web browsers now. | 13:33 |
| Dummie_badger | Hi, could somebody help me a little bit with my mate, I can only run it on live, and it-s freaking me on. | 13:59 |
| Dummie_badger | thanks | 13:59 |
| ubuntu-mate_ | hi | 14:01 |
| Dummie_badger | wazzup,can you help me? | 14:01 |
| ubuntu-mate_ | I gess not, I have the same issue badger | 14:02 |
| WattisLove | Hey alkisg you there? | 14:17 |
| alkisg | Hi WattisLove | 14:17 |
| WattisLove | Hi. When you told me about metapackage problem earlier (or yesturday depending on where you are) you were talking about latest (16) version, right? | 14:18 |
| alkisg | Yes, but also in general | 14:19 |
| WattisLove | cause I tried removing the ubuntu-mate-core and ubuntu-mate-desktop metapackage to see if autoremove would list all those Depend's, and I didn't see any | 14:19 |
| WattisLove | Does it happen to you if you remove those packages? | 14:19 |
| alkisg | There's a possibility that `tasksel` was used to create the live cd, in which case the related packages were already marked as "manually installed" | 14:19 |
| alkisg | This isn't the case if `apt install mate-desktop` is used instead | 14:20 |
| alkisg | I haven't checked, I was speaking in general about metapackages | 14:20 |
| alkisg | You can just check if the packages are marked as manually installed or not | 14:20 |
| alkisg | If they're manually installed, they won't get autoremoved | 14:20 |
| alkisg | $ apt-mark showauto $(apt-cache show ubuntu-mate-desktop | grep Depends: | tr -d ,) | 14:26 |
| alkisg | WattisLove: this returns nothing on my 16.04, so they're marked as manually installed, by tasksel or something similar | 14:26 |
| alkisg | $ apt-mark showauto $(apt-cache show linux-generic | grep Depends: | tr -d ,) | 14:27 |
| alkisg | linux-headers-generic | 14:27 |
| alkisg | linux-image-generic | 14:27 |
| WattisLove | alkisg, so this does not only depend on the Depend list but also on how they're marked out of the box? | 14:27 |
| alkisg | On the other hand, removing for example the "linux-generic" metapackage, will later on auto-remove linux-headers-generic and linux-image-generic | 14:28 |
| alkisg | WattisLove: yes, it is possible to mark any package as manually installed, either by using apt-mark yourself, or by using tasksel, or whatever else the live cd mechanism uses | 14:28 |
| WattisLove | quick question: where and how did you learn so much linux? if you're a programmer/sysadmin don't answer | 14:30 |
| alkisg | Both :) | 14:31 |
| WattisLove | Just tell me something. The output from your last commands is from your computer and not mine. RIGHT? | 14:34 |
| alkisg | Haha, yes | 14:34 |
| WattisLove | phew | 14:34 |
| WattisLove | When I tried the apt-mark showmanual the list was so long I was esceptical it was showing me the real ammoung of manual pkgs | 14:34 |
| WattisLove | *ammount | 14:35 |
| __CoolGuy | Hi | 16:19 |
| __CoolGuy | The Thunar Windows manager doesn't work properly. It closes, and with no reason; when I press ctl+v to paste files. | 16:23 |
| __CoolGuy | Any suggestions other than using Caja? | 16:23 |
| Langley | Hello, how do I get rid of that damn "must restart to apply updates" nagging | 17:33 |
| teward | Langley: by restarting, or disabling automated updates - it's saying you have to restart so you can boot into updated kernels which received patches | 17:41 |
| Langley | There should be an option to disable it. It keeps nagging every 5 minutes | 17:44 |
| gthoo_ | Hello. I have an thinkpad 260 and my mouse pointer is jumping around sometimes if I leftclick , but it jumps back around where it was before i clicked. Does anyone know what I can do to fix it? | 18:00 |
| Nowayz | Hey guys | 18:32 |
| Nowayz | Quick question, I have "single" listed in the cmdline.txt which I thought was booting emergency.target, but my changes to emergency.service don't seem to be doing anything, anybody know what that flag does? | 18:33 |
| === Nowayz_ is now known as Nowayz | ||
| Nowayz | I'm booting with "single" argument in the kernel arguments which I thought was using emergency.target and emergency.service, but changes to emergency.service don't seem to be changing anything. Anybody know what target is booting with single in kernel arguments?? | 18:42 |
| Langley | Help, after updating my system now takes a billion year at that Plymouth loading screen, then goes to emergency mode | 19:10 |
| Nowayz | can you get out of emergency mode | 19:14 |
| Langley | How? | 19:17 |
| Langley | Oh I think I know... must be additions I made to fstab | 19:45 |
| Langley | But why... | 19:47 |
| Langley | Is there any other way to auto mount hard drives? | 19:50 |
| Langley | Oh I got it, I guess writing about it helps. Thanks | 19:53 |
| === apessoa is now known as Guest59840 | ||
| Erige | Hello everyone. I am currently on Xubuntu, wanting to jump over to mate the live cd seemed to be more of what I am looking for. Is there a way I can migrate over to Ubuntu Mate without causing to many isses or would installing from live usb be the better option | 22:58 |
| nomic | they are different OS s .. would think that the xubuntu filing system mounts from mate, I would make my xubuntu a small partition to (using gparted), squeeze it down | 23:15 |
| nomic | then install mate into the free space | 23:15 |
| nomic | so you still have your ubuntu running, & can access the files on it from mate | 23:15 |
| nomic | ok | 23:16 |
| nomic | left. | 23:16 |
| * nomic runs ubuntu/mate | 23:16 | |
| nomic | xubuntu /mate | 23:16 |
| rvazquez | are their keyboard shortcuts to move windows like in win8/10?? | 23:59 |
| ouroumov | hi RadioNic1 | 23:59 |
| ouroumov | hi rvazquez | 23:59 |
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