| foobaz | Guys I want to port ubuntu touch for Moto G xt1033... any help | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| foobaz | I tried the official ubuntu guide but it was really blunt | 00:11 |
| foobaz | fucking dumbasses | 00:21 |
| k1l_ | :( | 00:22 |
| foobaz | k1l_: what? | 00:31 |
| k1l_ | your namecalling | 00:31 |
| foobaz | ok what should i call you idiots if im waiting for an hoour for answer | 00:34 |
| foobaz | if dont know say no. | 00:35 |
| k1l_ | stop calling names. | 00:35 |
| k1l_ | this channel is quite slow on europe nighttimes. and if you would actually name where exactly you are struggeling people would have an idea what to say. | 00:36 |
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| markit | hi, I've a PC with a touch screen, is there an ISO with ubuntu touch so I can have a virtual keyboard and use it without physical keyboard? | 09:20 |
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| tsdgeos | any idea why my wifi may have stopped connecting and how to debug it | 09:36 |
| tsdgeos | the other 2 phones connect fine | 09:36 |
| tsdgeos | but krillin fails to connect | 09:36 |
| tsdgeos | worked after a reflash | 09:49 |
| brunch875 | Grrr first they drop xmpp support and now this! I'm going to revise which contacts I can only reach through facebook and I'm going to close my account. | 10:00 |
| bregma | markit, there is no ISO for x86 with Unity 8 (it's a work in progress, hopefully soon) so the process is to install a regular Ubuntu ISO and then install the unity8-desktop-session-mir package on top, and only for open source video drivers | 10:29 |
| markit | bregma: will I have the virtual keyboard then that pops up everytime an application requires input? | 10:35 |
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| jibel | attente, kenvandine I failed silo 22 https://trello.com/c/tKn3jjbF/3315-1521-ubuntu-landing-022-ubuntu-system-settings-attente-kenvandine | 11:18 |
| jibel | attente, kenvandine with a comment | 11:18 |
| jibel | attente, kenvandine is there a design spec? | 11:18 |
| tboston | moin | 11:36 |
| tboston | are there any known issues with wifi connection on ota11? | 11:36 |
| tboston | I can not connect to our companys wifi | 11:36 |
| * brunch875 has no issues he's aware of with wifi | 11:41 | |
| tboston | found a bug report already | 11:44 |
| tboston | workaround is to copy and paste the password from another app like Notes | 11:44 |
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| markit | btw, I want to buy and ubuntu phone, but they are all "sold out", any idea? | 13:12 |
| dobey | markit: ebay or similar site for your region perhaps. or i'm not sure all the bq devices are sold out. | 13:14 |
| markit | dobey: I want to buy them officially, not of second hand. And not only the BQ are sold out, also the other brand. Isn't it strange? No official statement on it? | 13:15 |
| dobey | it's not strange. they are produced in limited quantities and they sold out fast. if you want an official statement on when hardware will be produced, you'll have to ask the manufacturers (bq and meizu) | 13:16 |
| markit | it can mean 2 things to me: a) the product is dead b) they are going to show a brand new line soon but have some production problem. a) seems more probable (why discontinue the old ones instead of wait for the new ones to arrive?) | 13:16 |
| markit | well, I think that is just a matter of "rom swap" to have and android OR a ubuntu phone, same hw AFAIR | 13:17 |
| popey | markit: not really, the android ones can be locked down | 13:18 |
| ogra_ | you could buy a tablet :) | 13:19 |
| dobey | well, we don't make the hardware in here, just the software. :) | 13:19 |
| ogra_ | markit, funnily i see the bq E5 in the german store ... but not in the global one https://store-de.bq.com/de/aquaris-e5s/ | 13:20 |
| ogra_ | so perpahs the out of stock thing is a store bug | 13:21 |
| ogra_ | ERRR | 13:22 |
| ogra_ | sorry ... wrong link | 13:22 |
| ogra_ | https://store-de.bq.com/de/ubuntu-edition-e5/ | 13:22 |
| OerHeks | demnächst verfügbar .. comming soon | 13:25 |
| OerHeks | we do have that E5 in stock ( netherlands ) https://www.afuture.nl/productview.php?productID=4188637 | 13:28 |
| popey | ooh | 13:35 |
| popey | that's the one device I'm missing | 13:35 |
| OerHeks | be quick, just one in stock | 13:35 |
| popey | :) | 13:36 |
| kenvandine | jibel, so i just tried it with my device in french, the confirmation dialog was in english but after reboot the device was still in french | 13:46 |
| kenvandine | attente, ^^ | 13:46 |
| kenvandine | so we need to fix that | 13:46 |
| jibel | kenvandine, not only the dialog, if you cancel the dialog system-settings is in english | 13:47 |
| kenvandine | ah | 13:47 |
| kenvandine | yeah, same problem | 13:48 |
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| kenvandine | but after reboot the display lang is still correct | 13:48 |
| jibel | kenvandine, also I think date time format and number are different things and should not be under language | 13:48 |
| kenvandine | so shouldn't be hard to fix | 13:48 |
| jibel | and not require a reboot | 13:48 |
| kenvandine | there was discussion on that in the bug | 13:48 |
| kenvandine | apparently we can't do it without a reboot | 13:48 |
| jibel | and not change the name of the day to english :) | 13:48 |
| kenvandine | the indicators won't get the change | 13:48 |
| jibel | kenvandine, on android I go to settings/date & time and there is a 24/12h switch | 13:50 |
| jibel | which seems natural | 13:50 |
| jibel | kenvandine, same on my desktop | 13:50 |
| kenvandine | yeah, i think it was decided that it wasn't that simple... i'd have to re-read the thread | 13:51 |
| kenvandine | attente, ^^ | 13:51 |
| jibel | kenvandine, maybe it is not simple but as it is implemented it is not a good user experience. It is not discoverable and it is not possible to only change the time format | 13:52 |
| dobey | omg i literally filed a bug about 12/24 switch over 2 years ago | 13:53 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, you cant change it independently? | 13:53 |
| dobey | pmcgowan: not on ubuntu phone atm | 13:54 |
| pmcgowan | I mean with the silo | 13:54 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, no you cannot | 13:54 |
| pmcgowan | oh | 13:54 |
| pmcgowan | I see | 13:54 |
| pmcgowan | you mean just the time and not other settings | 13:54 |
| dobey | and i guess even then it still needs a reboot | 13:54 |
| dobey | which it shouldn't need | 13:54 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, as it's implement I can change the locale for date and number, but not date *or* numbers and it affects everything | 13:55 |
| jibel | implemented* | 13:55 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, for example in the greater the name of the day is in english on a phone in french | 13:55 |
| kenvandine | i think what attente implemented was what was in comment 10 as requested by pmcgowan since we didn't have a design yet | 13:55 |
| * kenvandine re-reads | 13:55 | |
| pmcgowan | the bug was to set locale settings not just time format | 13:56 |
| pmcgowan | thats what was requested | 13:56 |
| kenvandine | yeah | 13:56 |
| kenvandine | which is what we have in silo 22 | 13:56 |
| dobey | pmcgowan: my bug from 2 years ago though, was just about time format | 13:57 |
| dobey | don't recall if it got marked a dup or what though | 13:57 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, so I am confused now, is it not desirable to choose a locale for everything? | 13:57 |
| dobey | pmcgowan: time/date/number formats should be configurable separately from locale | 13:58 |
| dobey | ideally, anyway | 13:58 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, no it is not. firstly I don't know which locale use which time format. So if I'm a french user on a french phone, which locale to I choose to have 12h time. secondly, if I want 12h I still want a comma to separate the numbers, thirdly if I want 12h time format I still want the name of the day and month in French | 13:58 |
| jibel | or maybe I'm French using a phone in english but with 24h time format and don't want the day in French but the whole UI in english | 13:59 |
| jibel | well, you get the point. it's what dobey reported it should be configurable separately from locale | 14:00 |
| dobey | or maybe i just prefer 24h time and i'm a USian | 14:00 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, well the bug descrition is something else, and a comment says date format and 12/24 are controlled together | 14:01 |
| * dobey wonders what's up with that unity8 cpu usage bug | 14:01 | |
| attente | i'm not sure how easy it is to configure each setting separately, it probably needs some patching to accountsservice | 14:02 |
| dobey | i don't see why we can't just use the same gsetting for 12/24h time as we use under unity7 | 14:02 |
| pmcgowan | again this bug was about locale formats | 14:02 |
| pmcgowan | if we dont realy want that we can ditch this MR | 14:03 |
| dobey | what bug? :) | 14:03 |
| jibel | I was referring to bug 1392699 | 14:03 |
| ubot5 | bug 1392699 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't change locale settings (e.g. language, 12/24-hour time, date format) independently" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1392699 | 14:03 |
| dobey | yeah that is about being able to set each thing individually | 14:03 |
| pmcgowan | I mainly went off comment 10 from gunnar | 14:04 |
| dobey | not about choosing a locale for date format separately from locale for language. it's about specifying the formats in the UI. | 14:04 |
| dobey | maybe one way to implement that is to use LC_FOO settings and reboot, but i don't think just having a list of locales is what we want there | 14:05 |
| dobey | becasue "English (Jamaica)" doesn't really tell me if it's what i want or not | 14:05 |
| dobey | other than for the language | 14:05 |
| dobey | seeing visual examples of formats and selecting from them would be a better UI/UX | 14:07 |
| pmcgowan | dobey, jibel still confused since this is exactly what the desktop has, although it also has the 12/24 swicth | 14:07 |
| pmcgowan | desktop settings present two panels just like this silo | 14:08 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, on the desktop I can select 12/24 independently of everything else and change it without a reboot | 14:08 |
| pmcgowan | sure but thats another bug :) | 14:08 |
| PaulePanter | Hi. What is the best Ubuntu phone at the moment, which can be bought in Germany? | 14:08 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, we can also add that capability | 14:08 |
| Blindhero | PaulePanter i would also like to know this | 14:08 |
| PaulePanter | Maybe, Meizu Pro 5? http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/devices | 14:09 |
| dobey | pmcgowan: well i think something more like mac here would be better, in both cases: https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/osx/prefs_language_region.png | 14:09 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, but how is the silo fixing the bug? There is a hundred list of countries, how am I supposed to know which one uses the format I want? | 14:10 |
| PaulePanter | It says it's sold out. | 14:10 |
| ogra_ | PaulePanter, apart from being sold out it is definitely the best one | 14:10 |
| Blindhero | it was sold out 10 minutes after the release :/ | 14:10 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, but its the same on desktop, how do people do it now? | 14:10 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, and date/time and number cannot be set independently | 14:10 |
| dobey | pmcgowan: there is a gsetting i can set for 12/24h under unity7 | 14:11 |
| pmcgowan | yes I know | 14:11 |
| pmcgowan | its separate from the formats setting | 14:11 |
| Blindhero | I'm thinking about buying the offical version and just patching ubuntu on it | 14:11 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, on desktop I don't have a list with hundreds of languages and there is an example in the dialog | 14:11 |
| * pmcgowan looks again | 14:11 | |
| Blindhero | but it's more expensive in germany | 14:11 |
| dobey | jibel: well, only because you don't have all these languages installed | 14:11 |
| dobey | jibel: if you install all the same langpacks that we have shipped on the phone, the list will be just as large | 14:12 |
| PaulePanter | Blindhero: https://www.cect-shop.com/de/meizu-pro-5-5-7-zoll-3gb-ram-32gb-interner-speicher-64-bit-samsung-exynos-7420-octa-core-android-5-1-flyme-5-os-4g-lte.html | 14:12 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, right the difference is it shows the example results which makes a lot of sense | 14:12 |
| jibel | dobey, I know but that makes this implementation unusable on a phone | 14:12 |
| Blindhero | oh thanks, on amazon the prices were about 600 euros | 14:12 |
| pmcgowan | so I think we need that, and then we need the 12/24 toggle in date time | 14:12 |
| PaulePanter | Blindhero: Oh, there are versions with Android. | 14:12 |
| dobey | jibel: it makes it unusable anywhere :) | 14:13 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, I got it now | 14:13 |
| Blindhero | I don't really want android... :D | 14:13 |
| jibel | dobey, on my desktop I won't install 99% of languages I don't use | 14:13 |
| kenvandine | pmcgowan, can you guys document what we want on that bug so attente has a good reference? | 14:13 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, was there some other unwanted side effect re the language? | 14:13 |
| dobey | jibel: 'ubuntu personal' will have the exact same set of languages installed as the phone | 14:14 |
| jibel | kenvandine, it's documented https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeAndDate and marked "not possible" for phone and tablet ;) | 14:14 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, the name of the day and month use the locale | 14:14 |
| dobey | jibel: fwiw, i'm not disagreeing with you, just stating that the gtk+ dialog used under unity7 is a poor example of something that is "ok" since you don't have all these locales installed. | 14:15 |
| attente | sorry about that, i have a small fix to prevent the language changing when the formats changes, i'm just building it now and will re-test it | 14:15 |
| dobey | kenvandine: 'i want a pony' | 14:15 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, my proposal is to simply show the example section for this silo, and add a separate task to do the 12/24 toggle | 14:16 |
| pmcgowan | attente, ^^ | 14:16 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, so with a phone in French and date/time set to english for exmaple, the day is in english in the greeter or the datetime indicator | 14:16 |
| pmcgowan | attente, can we more closely match what desktop does | 14:16 |
| pmcgowan | jibel, no thats a bug | 14:16 |
| attente | is it meant to be only 12/24? or is it all of the locale formats settings? | 14:16 |
| pmcgowan | attente, two different tasks | 14:16 |
| pmcgowan | both are desired it seems | 14:16 |
| attente | so a different menu for each setting? | 14:17 |
| dobey | i mostly want the mac dialog | 14:17 |
| pmcgowan | yeah but that means fixing linux | 14:17 |
| dobey | attente: christ no | 14:17 |
| dobey | pmcgowan: not really | 14:17 |
| pmcgowan | attente, no ignore the /1224 for now | 14:17 |
| jibel | pmcgowan, looking at the duplicates the most important feature is to add a 12/24 switch apparently | 14:17 |
| * kenvandine thinks so | 14:18 | |
| pmcgowan | jibel, yeah now I know, bug abuse | 14:18 |
| attente | if i fix the branch, maybe we can just use that for now until a design is ready for the mac style dialog | 14:18 |
| pmcgowan | attente, can you show the resuling example like desktop | 14:18 |
| pmcgowan | lots more work probably | 14:18 |
| PaulePanter | Blindhero: I don't either. It was just new to me, that there are versions of that phone with Android. | 14:21 |
| Blindhero | flymeOS seems to be something like a distribution of android, never heard of that | 14:22 |
| dobey | flyme is meizu's android fork, yes | 14:23 |
| kz6fittycent | more like blimey... | 14:24 |
| === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader | ||
| Blindhero | So i'm thinking of buying that Meizu Pro 5, but i was never installing a new os on smartphone .. is it hard to do? | 14:24 |
| kz6fittycent | no, it's quite easy | 14:25 |
| ogra_ | well | 14:25 |
| kz6fittycent | granted, I have a Nexus 4 so YMMV | 14:25 |
| ogra_ | ubuntu uses a different partitioning scheme ... but the install tools you can use will never touch the factory partitions | 14:25 |
| ogra_ | and yeah, the N4 is completely different (using loop mounted images instead of partitions) | 14:26 |
| pmcgowan | ogra_, do we know if those flyme phones can be unlocked | 14:26 |
| dobey | it's easy on the N4 | 14:26 |
| ogra_ | so to flash ubuntu you would first need the meizu factory tool to change the partitioning on the android phone | 14:26 |
| ogra_ | dobey, i know :) | 14:26 |
| ogra_ | and as pmcgowan mentioned above, it will only work with a fully unlocked bootloader | 14:27 |
| ogra_ | not sure the flyme devices are unlocked | 14:27 |
| kz6fittycent | ogra_, have you flashed uTouch on the Meizu? just curious.. | 14:27 |
| ogra_ | kz6fittycent, no, but i wrote a lot of the system on that level :) | 14:27 |
| pmcgowan | I don't believe they are | 14:27 |
| dobey | ogra_: iirc, some are and some aren't, and it's basically a crapshoot | 14:27 |
| ogra_ | yeah | 14:27 |
| ogra_ | likely a matter of luck | 14:28 |
| ogra_ | kz6fittycent, i'm one of the lucky people that were able to buy one when it was on sale | 14:29 |
| PaulePanter | Will there be a new charge of "Ubuntu Meizus" in the foreseeable future? | 14:29 |
| ogra_ | you have to ask meizu :/ | 14:29 |
| ogra_ | canonical only delivers the software to them ... the rest is up to them | 14:30 |
| Blindhero | i've read that android apps are not compatible, are they? | 14:30 |
| dobey | i just want all the remaining issues on n5 fixed | 14:31 |
| ogra_ | Blindhero, nope | 14:31 |
| dobey | Blindhero: no, you can't use android apps on ubuntu | 14:31 |
| ogra_ | dobey, just send more money to mariogrip then :) | 14:31 |
| attente | kenvandine, jibel: should be fixed now, but i'm not sure what we should do in general for the bigger question about making each setting configurable independently: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/ubuntu-system-settings/1392699/+merge/296271 | 14:39 |
| Blindhero | why isn't there an emulator? :( | 14:40 |
| Blindhero | nevermind, is there a list of supported apps? or ported apps .. | 14:40 |
| dobey | Blindhero: the security model of ubuntu is very different from android | 14:43 |
| Blindhero | one of the main reasons why i want to switch to ubuntu | 14:44 |
| dobey | Blindhero: and if we supported that, then there'd be no reason for people to write ubuntu apps, and we want developers building things for ubuntu, not things for android | 14:44 |
| dobey | https://uappexplorer.com/ shows all the available apps and scopes | 14:44 |
| Blindhero | thanks alot | 14:45 |
| dobey | most are webapps (containerized browsers for specific web sites) | 14:45 |
| Blindhero | oh nice telegram.. :) | 14:45 |
| kenvandine | attente, rebuilding the silo, but not sure how i feel about landing this | 14:49 |
| attente | because of the change? or because of the discussion about the design? | 14:50 |
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| mariogrip | dobey: working on it ;) something might maybe come this week :) | 15:11 |
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| mariogrip | Something blue | 15:12 |
| dobey | mariogrip: awesome! | 15:17 |
| om26er | Hi! OOM killer kills content-hub window when I try to select an image from gallery. Who works on that part of the stack ? | 15:38 |
| om26er | workflow: telegram -> send a photo > select gallery from content-hub > select an image from gallery > you are returned to a fuzzy content-picker window. | 15:40 |
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| om26er | oSoMoN, ping | 15:44 |
| oSoMoN | huh, that sounds bad | 15:46 |
| oSoMoN | tvoss maybe? | 15:46 |
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| tvoss | oSoMoN, please file a bug against content-hub/unity8 | 16:07 |
| tvoss | om26er, ^ | 16:07 |
| om26er | oSoMoN, :) I actually pinged you about this: http://i.imgur.com/j0cMj0V.jpg probably a UA string issue. | 16:08 |
| om26er | tvoss, thanks will report the issue, I assume the solution would be to increase content-hub' priority. | 16:09 |
| om26er | oSoMoN, Twitter shows its basic version, not really sure when this issue started. | 16:09 |
| oSoMoN | om26er, that’s bug #1577834 I believe | 16:20 |
| ubot5 | bug 1565063 in Canonical System Image "duplicate for #1577834 Update the chromium version in the user agent" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1565063 | 16:20 |
| dobey | om26er: what device is that content-picker issue on? | 16:21 |
| om26er | dobey, that was krillin, with quite a few apps running. | 16:21 |
| om26er | dobey, I killed a few apps and now the issue does not happen. | 16:21 |
| === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader | ||
| om26er | so it seems when I selected gallery to pick a photo, it consume quite a bit of ram and subsequently OOM killer tried to make some room and ended up killing the content-picker itself. | 16:22 |
| dobey | om26er: ah ok. there's a similar issue on some of the unofficial devices, but i'm pretty sure it's not OOM | 16:22 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | I should have been in here now I am again | 16:31 |
| kz6fittycent | hello SebthreeBQM10HD | 16:31 |
| kz6fittycent | haha | 16:31 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, hello stranger :d | 16:32 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | or not quite h eh he h | 16:32 |
| Mickle | Hi | 16:34 |
| brunch875 | hello! | 16:34 |
| Mickle | Actually, i have some question abou ubuntu touch | 16:34 |
| Mickle | i'm not sure , im in the right place or not | 16:35 |
| brunch875 | haha this is probably the best place to ask such a question | 16:35 |
| Mickle | ok | 16:35 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | Mickle yes this is the right place whats your question | 16:35 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, I just in here now... | 16:36 |
| Mickle | I wondering why ubuntu touch is too slow | 16:36 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, hmm? | 16:36 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | Mickle, slow how and on what device? | 16:36 |
| kz6fittycent | man, I need a new laptop...my keyboard isn't typing all the letters... | 16:36 |
| Mickle | and don't have very typical feature | 16:36 |
| Mickle | ? | 16:36 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, oh I see you have left the other channel | 16:36 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, were you not in the ubuntu-on-air channel | 16:36 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | yep we can continue our chat here | 16:37 |
| kz6fittycent | okay, good, I was worried that there were two of you! | 16:37 |
| dobey | it's not too slow on my nexus 5; and it has typical features | 16:37 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | Mickle, which device? | 16:37 |
| Mickle | i try in nexus 4 | 16:37 |
| dobey | Mickle: so what "typical features" do you mean? | 16:37 |
| Mickle | in my meizu pro 5 ofcource it's better | 16:37 |
| dobey | it's generally pretty smooth on my nexus 4 too | 16:37 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | Ubuntu Touch has worked nicely on my BQ Aquarias E 4.5 | 16:37 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | and | 16:37 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | Meizu MX 4 | 16:37 |
| Mickle | but in that one also alow | 16:38 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | and if it was to slow on my tablet well | 16:38 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | I woudn/t be using it right now with this name :d | 16:38 |
| s` | it's not smoothless indeed | 16:38 |
| s` | even on my pro5 | 16:38 |
| dobey | Mickle: i think you need to clarify what exactly you mean by "slow" because in general, slow is not how i'd describe it | 16:38 |
| kz6fittycent | I only use uTouch. I've been using it on my nexus 4 | 16:38 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | can sometimes depending on what using the bluetooth keyboard with b be a bit slow to type with though, but other then that its fine enough for speed | 16:38 |
| dobey | but if you think it's slow, get a 2012 Nexus 7 and try running android 5 on it | 16:39 |
| Mickle | dobey: when i open note or other apps | 16:39 |
| dobey | app start can be a little latent, yes. there are performance optimizations being worked on to improve that | 16:39 |
| Mickle | WORST THING IS in terminal i don't have full control | 16:40 |
| dobey | ? | 16:40 |
| Mickle | most of the commands in terminal doesn't work | 16:40 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, if I buy the Full HD version of the Android E5, and then try and put Ubuntu on it myself, I guess that would work? seems BQ no longer sell the Ubuntu Edition of the 4.5 and E5 HD so | 16:40 |
| dobey | what commands? | 16:40 |
| kz6fittycent | Mickle, are you referring to "apt-get" commands? | 16:41 |
| Mickle | everything u thinkex, man | 16:41 |
| Mickle | info | 16:41 |
| dobey | SebthreeBQM10HD: you need the tools from bq to repartition the device; and i'm not sure if the full hd one is the same hardware exactly | 16:41 |
| dobey | Mickle: well, the terminal app is not shipped by default, if you want to use CLI tools, make a chroot and install the things you want to use, inside that chroot | 16:41 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, yeah they got like a flashing software on a site for download I seen that | 16:41 |
| kz6fittycent | Mickle, or are you referring to commands like ssh, cd, ls, etc? | 16:41 |
| dobey | Mickle: so man/info pages are a waste of disk space for a consumer phone device | 16:42 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, seems the E5 thats on sale on Amazon is the FHD so | 16:42 |
| Mickle | Kz6fittycen: actually i'm nit sure | 16:42 |
| Mickle | but i find command on net | 16:42 |
| dobey | SebthreeBQM10HD: i'd say "ask bq" :) | 16:42 |
| Mickle | adn follow them | 16:42 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, the Flashing software will work with the Android version, but indeed hardwaer may be diffenret. there customer support is usless mostly | 16:42 |
| dobey | Mickle: http://askubuntu.com/a/623311/50737 | 16:42 |
| mhall119 | kz6fittycent: GPS takes a long time to acquire on the Nexus 4 | 16:43 |
| mhall119 | even using the Aquaris channel with the Nokia HERE AGPS | 16:43 |
| mhall119 | it's been my experience that the AGPS works well in some areas, and not at all in others, which indicates holes in Nokia's data | 16:43 |
| kz6fittycent | So, yesterday, I was going to update my /etc/hosts file on my N4 to do some adblocking...alas /etc/hosts is "read-only" and I'm too chicken to change that! | 16:44 |
| mhall119 | not surprisingly, Google is has much more data and does a better job at this with Android | 16:44 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, I got mhall119 to message you here :d since he started replying in the other channel | 16:44 |
| mhall119 | yeah, didn't realize you had already left there | 16:44 |
| kz6fittycent | ah! mhall119 I was worried that I'd missed something!! | 16:44 |
| kz6fittycent | thanks SebthreeBQM10HD | 16:45 |
| kz6fittycent | mhall119, yeah same with mine. Sometimes it's dead on and fast and at others, it thinks I'm on another street. | 16:45 |
| kz6fittycent | mhall119, so, I am sorry to pester you about uDropCabin but it's actually working for you? | 16:46 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, I guess got a Android phone if it doesnt work :d I havent flashed any phone yet | 16:46 |
| mhall119 | kz6fittycent: yeah, just tried it again after you said you were having problems and I was able to download files just fine | 16:46 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, but was thinking of maybe buying that one and then trying to flash it later on some time :d | 16:47 |
| kz6fittycent | wow... I've tried several times to get it to work. Visited the dev's Git page and he's got nothing to help me out. I can sign in but that's it... | 16:47 |
| dobey | SebthreeBQM10HD: well, feel free to try :) | 16:47 |
| Mickle | dobey: in the terminal i can't dellet or go into directory full like desktop? | 16:47 |
| Mickle | wy | 16:47 |
| Mickle | *why? | 16:47 |
| mhall119 | kz6fittycent: that's very odd, do you need to give the app access within dropbox's settings somewhere? | 16:47 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, on Amazon anyway they don't have the HD on sale, but there was one or two or so Full HD, so might buy that next month or something, and try | 16:47 |
| dobey | Mickle: it's a phone, not a PC. / is a small partition, and read-only, because updates are done via system images, not via apt | 16:47 |
| kz6fittycent | mhall119, If so, the dev didn't specify. Maybe I'll check that out... | 16:48 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, Ebay didnt come up with much either | 16:48 |
| Mickle | is there any tools i can have more access? | 16:48 |
| kz6fittycent | mhall119, though there's that lame webapp in store for uTouch.... | 16:48 |
| dobey | Mickle: if you want to use legacy X apps, then you need to do it via libertine container. if you want CLI tools, you should use libertine container or a chroot | 16:48 |
| dobey | Mickle: i just pasted you the answer | 16:48 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, An Android phone with kit kat though hmm a older version, but that woudnt be to bad | 16:48 |
| dobey | Mickle: of course, you can also break your phone and keep all the pieces. it's unsupported if you do though. it's still ubuntu, so you can technically do whatever you want in it. but making / r/w and breaking your phone isn't supported :) | 16:49 |
| mhall119 | kz6fittycent: try going to https://www.dropbox.com/account#security and seeing if uDropCabin is listed at the bottom with "Full Dropbox" Access type | 16:49 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, it did say on the site that should be able to put UBuntu on the Android phones with there software, but yes maybe there is enough difference for it not to work since the screens are diffenret for a start hmm | 16:49 |
| dobey | SebthreeBQM10HD: if it has the same kernel and just a different device name, then might be easy enough to flash | 16:50 |
| dobey | SebthreeBQM10HD: but like i said, i don't know the details :) | 16:50 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, well I guess they have two E5 's the HD and the FHD probably rather similar hardware between the two as well except for the screen | 16:51 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | I coudnt find a HD for sale so | 16:51 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | but a Fhd or two or so yep | 16:51 |
| dobey | SebthreeBQM10HD: right, that's usually how it is, but i can't say for certain | 16:51 |
| dobey | i don't build the phones :) | 16:52 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, true but you know about Ubuntu on phones :d more than me | 16:52 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | oh and an actsual Ubuntu Edition BQ HD E5 may go on sale some wehre in a year or so, but then it will be a even older phone etc | 16:53 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | annoyingly BQ seem to no longer sell the two phones | 16:53 |
| Mickle | dobey: thanks, just where can i tell about bugs and Suggestion about apps and ubuntu touch? | 16:53 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | dobey, I have like pretty much eveyr other Ubuntu device so far it seems, as in the 4.5 and MX 4, and M10 HD, but missing something h eh | 16:54 |
| dobey | Mickle: see the topic | 16:54 |
| Mickle | i write a lot of idea ubuntu touch and aome aps | 16:54 |
| kz6fittycent | Dang SebthreeBQM10HD you've been busy buying all those uTouch devices | 16:54 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, yes seems so :d | 16:54 |
| kz6fittycent | lol | 16:54 |
| dobey | though app suggestions aren't generally helpful. there are plenty of "app suggestion" lists floating around | 16:54 |
| dobey | but nothing official | 16:55 |
| Mickle | ok thanks | 16:55 |
| kz6fittycent | dobey, suggestions are like ...opinions... everyone's got one!! LOL | 16:55 |
| Mickle | have good time | 16:55 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, I kept on h9olidng off the maybe buying the BQ E5 Ubuntu Edidition, since I already had the other two phones, and didnt really need that one as a result etc | 16:56 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, plus it kept on being in stock on BQs website untill more recently | 16:56 |
| dobey | kz6fittycent: pretty much | 16:57 |
| * SebthreeBQM10HD doesnt really have a Android phone anymore as well except for that old Samsuing Galasxy S3 and a really old one same one gave me like thre years ago if that counts. so maybe getting a Android phone upgrade if what I put above doesnt work etc, wo9udnt be to bad :d | 16:57 | |
| kz6fittycent | mhall119, well, it's not showing up... | 16:57 |
| kz6fittycent | mhall119, the linked apps in Dropbox that is | 16:57 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, I guess once you reolise you have nearly everything so far, you sometimes think, oh but I am missing.... maybe I will buy that eventually or I will but when h eh | 16:58 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, luckily I dont seem to be interested in it being ported to things lilke the one plus or fair phone in the sense of then wanting to go and buy those phones myself :d | 16:58 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | :) not :d | 16:58 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, and when some more common make finally probably sels an Ubuntu Phone, Sony or whoever it may be, I probably won't just be running off to buy that one, if you get what I mean :d | 16:59 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | may not buy at all, I don/t want to many phones :d | 16:59 |
| kz6fittycent | mhall119, yeah when I kill the app and restart it, it just asks me to sign in again...I give up. | 16:59 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, the Meizu Pro 5 is good, I will be buying that maybe later on this summer hmm | 17:00 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, yeah I do. If the Meizu Pro 5 would support LTE in the US (different freq.) then I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.. | 17:00 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, well I am in the UK so it will be fine for networks here :d and not our fault the rest of the world :d, that you in the US have some diffenret network h eh | 17:01 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, don't hate!! :) | 17:01 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, and I am not so sure I would want to go to the US again :d since the air port stuff hmm | 17:02 |
| mhall119 | kz6fittycent: there's a github URL listed as the contact for the app developer (long-click the app icon in the launcher to see it), best to open an issue for him there | 17:02 |
| mariogrip | mhall119: we are having the meeting today in 30 mins right? | 17:03 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, I think you can buy the M10 tablet to US | 17:03 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, those are good devices :) | 17:03 |
| mhall119 | mariogrip: I'm good to go if you are | 17:03 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/meizu-pro-5-unboxing this guy lives in the US and uses ATT. He said that he gets HSPA or whatever it's called. But not 4g/LTE | 17:04 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | mhall119, mariogrip what kind of meeting :d ? | 17:04 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, yeah I havr read about that that it deosnt quite work with the US networks | 17:04 |
| mariogrip | mhall119: yeah | 17:04 |
| mhall119 | SebthreeBQM10HD: he and I have weekly meetings to talk about his work | 17:04 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, but with the tablet that woudnt be an issue since thats not for use on mobile networks anyway | 17:04 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, uTouch only supports GSM networks right now. We have both CDMA and GSM in the US. It's the LTE part for GSM that's the only issue. | 17:05 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, oh well move to EUrope then :d, yes I am joking :) | 17:06 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, I thought about buying a Nexus 7 and running Touch on it. My brother does. Though he doesn't ever really use it. He's more of an Android guy. He | 17:06 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, if you want a nice Ubuntu device! | 17:06 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, I wouldn't mind visiting again | 17:06 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, I would suggest recommend the tablet, I guess not hte HD but the Fhd like the fan boys :d | 17:07 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, eventaully I will buy the FHD as well thats the plan, yes b oth M10's :d | 17:07 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, but alas, I am 'merikan through and through! | 17:07 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | but that's a tablet, not for use as a mobile phone | 17:07 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | in fact in the OTA `11 upgade I beive hte phone app got remoed as a result of it not having hardware for that | 17:07 |
| kz6fittycent | SebthreeBQM10HD, what's the FHD tablet? | 17:07 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, or you could wait for Ubuntu desktop to pretty much turn into the same thing as ubuntu touch :d | 17:08 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | thats where things are going | 17:08 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | with Unity 8 and libertine etc | 17:08 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, there are two versions of the BQ M10 tablet, I bought the cheaper of the two first | 17:08 |
| kz6fittycent | oh okay | 17:08 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | the rejected by most people versoin first :d | 17:08 |
| kz6fittycent | Hey, gotta go! Nice meeting you SebthreeBQM10HD! Probably see you next week! | 17:09 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | kz6fittycent, if you read omgubuntu for example, and read anything about the tablet, you would be see that most of it was banging on about the full HD , and in the sense that the HD version what I am using now, is not good etc | 17:09 |
| SebthreeBQM10HD | oh gone already, oh well | 17:09 |
| mariogrip | are we ready? https://oneplus.net/oneplus-3 | 17:21 |
| mariogrip | Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ 820, 16 MP camera, 6GB RAM (6 yes 6) | 17:23 |
| dobey | mariogrip: is it < 5"? | 17:38 |
| dobey | nope :( | 17:40 |
| dobey | 5.5" screen, and a bunch of space taken up by a button | 17:40 |
| dobey | lol, type-c, but not usb 3.1? pfft | 17:41 |
| === olli_ is now known as olli | ||
| mariogrip | dobey: :P | 18:05 |
| dobey | how hard is it to make a phone with a 4.5" screen that's at least 1080p | 18:06 |
| mariogrip | dobey: that's too small for me :P | 18:12 |
| dobey | mariogrip: well, you can have a big phone if you want. i just wish they'd make phones with this great quad/octa-core 64bit hardware and massive ram and storage, in a more reasonable size like 4.5" | 18:17 |
| mariogrip | dobey: yeah, i dunno why, but maybe it's enough demand for it | 18:19 |
| mariogrip | or not enough space for that hardware without having a thick phone | 18:20 |
| dobey | mariogrip: well, iPhone 5S is still that size :) | 18:23 |
| dobey | and 6S is 4.7" | 18:24 |
| dobey | 1334x750 pixels | 18:24 |
| dobey | ooh | 18:25 |
| mariogrip | dobey: yeah, but that's iphone | 18:25 |
| dobey | and the new iPhone SE is 4" display | 18:25 |
| mariogrip | dobey: how about the oneplus x? 5 in | 18:25 |
| dobey | mariogrip: yeah, but the point is that there is obviously demand for phones of this size | 18:26 |
| mariogrip | dobey: but not as much as bigger phones | 18:26 |
| dobey | mariogrip: i don't think there's that much demand for bigger phones. there's demand for features, and android phone makers are only putting features into big phones | 18:27 |
| mariogrip | dobey: make some sense, bigger phone, more space to put hardware | 18:27 |
| dobey | mariogrip: the hardware isn't bigger, so that's a non-argument really :) | 18:28 |
| mariogrip | dobey: :P well, i don't makes phones, so i dunno lol :P | 18:28 |
| mariogrip | 5.1 on hammerhead needs some testing this week, if that goes well i think it's ready for rc-proposed | 18:29 |
| dobey | mariogrip: well, the CPUs aren't really any different from commodity PC CPUs in terms of advancement. as time progresses the dies get smaller, not bigger. :) | 18:30 |
| dobey | so a CPU that once had 2 cores can now have 4, or 8 | 18:30 |
| dobey | anyway | 18:30 |
| mariogrip | dobey: also, bigger phone, bigger heat sink (the phone) | 18:30 |
| dobey | mariogrip: cool. so you figured out the crazy framebuffer flicker thing? | 18:30 |
| mariogrip | dobey: yeah, vsync issue | 18:31 |
| dobey | mariogrip: i think mostly the reason for the bigger phones is bigger flatter batteries, because android has historically been very bad at power management; especially with arbitrary apps running all the time | 18:31 |
| dobey | sweet | 18:31 |
| dobey | mariogrip: and wifi with wpa? | 18:32 |
| mariogrip | dobey: yeah, after 5.0 has much better power handling | 18:32 |
| mariogrip | dobey: jup, that works now | 18:32 |
| mariogrip | I need to do some more debugging on bluetooth, it drops out 3 seconds after i connect something sometimes it does not start | 18:33 |
| dobey | mariogrip: sweet. | 18:33 |
| dobey | i might flash it on again later and give it another try then | 18:33 |
| mariogrip | dobey: i haven't pushed anything yet, i can ping you when i have | 18:34 |
| mariogrip | dobey: usb setting fixed also, so adb works | 18:34 |
| dobey | ok great | 18:35 |
| dobey | yeah, ping me when you get the fixed build pushed up :) | 18:35 |
| mariogrip | dobey: yup :) | 18:35 |
| dobey | i have many bt gadgets i want to use with my phone :) | 18:37 |
| mariogrip | convergence :D | 18:38 |
| dobey | just ordered a neat fitness bracelet thing; trying to convince them to publish docs for communicating with the device | 18:38 |
| dobey | nah, keyboard/mouse aren't really things i want to connect to my phone, genrally | 18:38 |
| mariogrip | dobey: you could "sniff" the calls that get send over bt and create an app using that | 18:39 |
| dobey | mariogrip: yeah, the problem is their app only works on android or ios phones; and i don't have any of those. only android device i have is a 2012 nexus 7, which the app won't install on :-/ | 18:40 |
| dobey | maybe i can try to do some funky thing with ARC or whatever to get it running on my PC | 18:40 |
| mariogrip | dobey: yeah, ARC might work | 18:41 |
| dobey | it's too bad they took down their app for the headset from the play store too. trying to get them to give me info on that so i can do the cool extra things with it | 18:42 |
| mariogrip | dobey: yeah | 18:42 |
| dobey | http://www.slashgear.com/jawbone-era-review-2014-16313375/ | 18:44 |
| mariogrip | dobey: there might be something on github that someone else have been working/hacked on | 18:44 |
| dobey | i haven't found anything | 18:46 |
| === dpm is now known as dpm-afk | ||
| === bfiller_ is now known as bfiller | ||
| === mr_rcollins is now known as awesomedude23 | ||
| === awesomedude23 is now known as mr_rcollins | ||
| Drew_Neilson | Hi | 22:59 |
| Drew_Neilson | What are Ubuntu's equivalent of MS Windows' universal apps called? | 23:00 |
| k1l | do you mean the snap packages? or clickpackages that are used on the phones right now? | 23:04 |
| Drew_Neilson | I don't know. | 23:05 |
| k1l | can you rephrase or detail your question? | 23:06 |
| Drew_Neilson | If I want to do a Google search for a game that works on both Ubuntu Touch and desktop Ubuntu, what is/are the search terms to use? | 23:07 |
| Drew_Neilson | Game or app | 23:07 |
| k1l | i am not sure if snap packages are supported on the ubuntu touch right now. | 23:08 |
| Drew_Neilson | So are you saying that Ubuntu does not have a platform for apps to run on both Ubuntu Touch and desktop Ubuntu? | 23:09 |
| k1l | that is not surprising since most apps/games are not specialised to be run on small touchscreen devices. but snap is going to be a universal package format and will close this gap. | 23:12 |
| Drew_Neilson | So at some point in the future, if I want to find a racing game that works on both Ubuntu Touch and desktop Ubuntu, I'd Google [Ubuntu click package racing game]? | 23:15 |
| k1l | i guess "snap packages". but that will mean the package is made for all form factors. | 23:15 |
| k1l | click packages is what is now used on the ubuntu-touch devices | 23:17 |
| Drew_Neilson | Oops, I meant [Ubuntu snap package racing game] | 23:17 |
| Drew_Neilson | Ok, so in the future if I want a racing game that works on both Ubuntu Touch and desktop Ubuntu, I'd Google [Ubuntu snap package racing game]? | 23:18 |
| k1l | i guess so. | 23:19 |
| Drew_Neilson | Honestly, it sound like Ubuntu and Canonical are WAY behind Microsoft when it comes to universal apps. There are already apps that run on both Windows 10 on desktops and Windows 10 on phones. | 23:21 |
| Drew_Neilson | The IRC app that I am typing this text into us a universal app that runs on both Windows 10 for phones and for desktops. | 23:22 |
| k1l | Drew_Neilson: the plan is not to have a ubuntu on desktop and ubuntu on phones in the end. but to have one ubuntu running on all formfactors. | 23:22 |
| k1l | and on that race windows is far behind ;p | 23:24 |
| Drew_Neilson | Well Microsoft realized that they can't just dump all of the old software that runs on Windows on x86 | 23:25 |
| Drew_Neilson | they have to maintain Windows on x86 desktops AND Windows on phones and tablets. | 23:25 |
| Drew_Neilson | And gradually get developers to write for the universal app platform. | 23:26 |
| Drew_Neilson | Doesn't Ubuntu have the same problem? | 23:27 |
| troyready | Drew_Neilson: yes -- libertine is the current strategy for handling legacy apps https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Libertine | 23:27 |
| troyready | (install instructions on that page are out of date iirc -- it comes ootb on recent OTAs) | 23:28 |
| k1l | ubuntu works on expanding the codebase from the ubuntu-touch base and migrating that with the desktop codebase. look for "convergence" and ubuntu | 23:28 |
| bregma | right now, clicks work fine under Unity 8 on Ubuntu "yakketty yak", assuming they're build for x86 as well as ARM | 23:30 |
| bregma | until snaps work on mobile versions of Ubuntu, that's the universal package format | 23:32 |
| bregma | the hardware graphics acceleration is still not satisfactory for X11-based apps (XApps) though | 23:33 |
| Drew_Neilson | My head's about to explode. This seems to be MUCH more technical than I thought it would be. | 23:34 |
| bregma | well, we can run any old desktop app on any device, but it's still rough around the edges and games may be slow... also, most any old desktop apps don;t work well on small touchscreens as opposed to desktop-sized monitors with mice and keyboards | 23:35 |
| troyready | Drew_Neilson: that's probably not an incorrect assertation. It's still all pretty dev-preview-esque right now. Not like the works-out-of-the-box state of Ubuntu on the desktop | 23:36 |
| k1l | most people underestimate what it means to use a regular desktop app on a small touchscreen. most regular desktop apps cant be used in a proper way. | 23:37 |
| bregma | libertine will come out of the box on *all* devices with OTA-12, but still requires CLI usage to install apps as a barrier to casual use until it's more ready | 23:39 |
| Drew_Neilson | All I know is, if I want a racing game that works on both Windows 10 desktops and Windows 10 Mobile, I'd need to Google [universal Windows platform racing game]. Simple as that. | 23:39 |
| bregma | it'll happen with Ubuntu, but it's still under open and public development | 23:40 |
| k1l | game makers werent that happy about UWPs api beeing not open and other restrictions. | 23:42 |
| bregma | I suspect you're not going to find Windows does what you're looking for in the next year, either | 23:42 |
| Drew_Neilson | bregma: There are already several UWP apps. I'm using a Windows 10 Mobile phone with some of them installed on it. | 23:44 |
| Drew_Neilson | I'm not trying to sound like a MS fanboi, I'm just interested in convergence, which leads me to compare the Windows ecosystem with the Ubuntu (ecosystem?) and the Google ecosystem. | 23:46 |
| k1l | Drew_Neilson: MS got the best desktop ecosystem, google the best smartphone one. ubuntu is building both combined. | 23:51 |
| k1l | the ubuntu convergence looks quite promising if you look at how the devices changed in recent years. the desktop is dying( at home) while phones get more powerfull and can run desktops when connected with monitor, mouse and keyboard. | 23:53 |
| Drew_Neilson | k1l: Yeah but it sounds like Ubuntu Touch is not consumer-ready, whereas Windows 10 Mobile is (I'm using it right now.) | 23:53 |
| k1l | Drew_Neilson: its consumer ready. a lot of users us it right now. | 23:54 |
| bregma | Drew_Neilson, there are already several convergent Ubuntu apps (shipping on phones and tablets no less), and we just had the Unity 8 development team dogfooding their development environment using Unity 8 so you know it's gotta be fairly advanced | 23:55 |
| bregma | that's the same software, phone or desktop | 23:55 |
| bregma | *that* is convergence | 23:55 |
| Drew_Neilson | Ok, so I'd there are Ubuntu apps available for downloading that run on phone and desktop, what words denote that they run on both? What words in their store lusting denote that they run on both? | 23:57 |
| Drew_Neilson | *if | 23:58 |
| Drew_Neilson | *listing | 23:58 |
| k1l | Drew_Neilson: ok. lets explain it the other way: | 23:59 |
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