[05:00] <maps> hi all
[05:43] <maps> hmmm what film to watch
[05:44] <maps> london has fallen or eye in the sky hms
[05:44] <MartijnVdS> sound of one, picture of the other
[05:44] <maps> lol
[05:55] <knightwise> good morning
[07:06] <MooDoo> well for any one wanting to play with nextcloud on ubuntu 16.04LTS server, let me tell you it's bloomin easy to install with snap :)
[07:10] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:26] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[07:29] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[07:33] <SuperMatt> morning all
[07:33] <MooDoo> morning SuperMatt hows the job goinf?
[07:34] <SuperMatt> It's going well, finally managed to tackle OS X, and beat in to the kind of submission that gives me a semi-decent workflow
[07:37] <SuperMatt> although part of me is thinking of aliasing bash on this thing to "docker start supermatt/bash"
[07:37] <SuperMatt> and have a real command line
[07:38] <MooDoo> hehe :)
[07:38] <SuperMatt> though really I've just got zsh and oh-my-zsh to fill all the painful gaps left by Apple's refusal to upgrade bash beyond version 3
[07:52] <MooDoo> hehe
[07:59] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:25] <foobarry> anyone had dealings with pimoroni?
[08:25] <Myrtti> why?
[08:25] <Myrtti> I believe we have
[08:25] <foobarry> bought a pi zero on saturday, nothing arrived and no response to my emails
[08:25] <Myrtti> oh. Do you have a Twitter account?
[08:25] <foobarry> yep
[08:25] <Myrtti> complain there :-P
[08:26] <Myrtti> (I've not emailed them ever, just used Twitter. altho mine was just a 'look what I've done')
[08:27] <ali1234> i ordered a pi zero yesterday evening, they are back in stock now
[08:27] <ali1234> you probably encountered a glitch on their website
[08:28] <ali1234> i told you so :)
[08:28] <foobarry> lolz
[08:28] <ali1234> or maybe they'll ship it out to you now
[08:28] <ali1234> i dunno
[08:28] <foobarry> if they oversold they should just tell me
[08:28] <ali1234> they didn't sell out instantly this time so they'll probably honour your order if you bug them
[08:28] <foobarry> just tweeted them as per Myrtti advice
[08:29] <ali1234> they haven't oversold, they still have stock
[08:29] <ali1234> they probably didn't have stock on saturday though, hence why you have not got one yet
[08:29] <foobarry> they may have done on saturday
[08:29] <foobarry> altohugh i like the look of the chip for $9
[08:29] <foobarry> includes wifi , bt, etc
[08:29] <ali1234> well yeah i mean they might have had none at all
[08:30] <foobarry> must be a loss on that
[08:30] <ali1234> i ordered a chip in january i thnk
[08:30] <ali1234> pi 3 was released since then... its better i think
[08:39] <ali1234> apparently they did have a batch up last friday
[09:00] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Fresh Veggies Day! 😃
[09:01] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XbT0QHYKAA  you're welcome
[09:02] <zmoylan-pi> thing that makes the chip more interesting is the pda case they plan to release for it
[09:23] <knightwise> morning peeps
[09:25] <davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZFqyAhvQWc thanks to JamesTait and fudgeday it led to this and I realised I remembered them all :(
[09:27] <JamesTait> Nope, not going there.
[09:27] <JamesTait> I already feel old enough, thank you.
[09:27] <MooDoo> oh dear
[09:30] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I like the look of the PocketCHIP. So very tempted...
[09:30] <davmor2> 70's ads for car oil because men were manly back then and looked at their car engines rather than looking at the piece of plastic on top of one nowadays :D
[09:32] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Thanks. I have realised I am now closer to retirement than I am to my memories of those adverts.
[09:32] <TwistedLucidity> I would be more forthright, but this channel if meant to be family-friendly. :-P
[09:35] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: don't blame me JamesTait started it
[09:50] <MooDoo> davmor2: I know why ubuntu doesn't boot now, it can't handle drive sizes of >2tb on non uefi hardware...
[09:50] <MooDoo> davmor2: sorry boot drive sizes of greater than 2tb
[09:51] <TwistedLucidity> What?
[09:51] <davmor2> MooDoo: stop trying to use ntfs already :P
[09:52] <TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Is that an Ubuntu limitation, or something kernel-y that affects most distros?
[09:52] <davmor2> MooDoo: also use 64bit :P
[09:52] <TwistedLucidity> Or maybe GRUB-y?
[09:53] <MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: don't think so, think it's a limitation of BIOS vs uefi
[09:53] <Switches> TwistedLucidity: It's actually neither, it's an MBR limitation and using GPT on non-UEFI systems can be a bit sketchy
[09:53] <MooDoo> davmor2: shush
[09:53] <MooDoo> Switches: that what i meant lol
[09:53] <MooDoo> guess it's use a small boot drive, then create another partition
[09:54] <Switches> If you run Windows is where the problem is as Windows can't boot from a GPT disk prior to (Windows 8 i think it was)
[09:54] <TwistedLucidity> Switches: Ta, good to know when space gets tight on the home server (I had been considering 4TB drives)
[09:54] <davmor2> MooDoo: oh you mean you don't partition your drive well I have no sympathy then :P
[09:55] <MooDoo> it's wierd though as vmware esxi works fine as it's software gpt so sees it all :) which is what i'm uding at the moment
[09:55] <MooDoo> davmor2: bah humbug
[09:55] <Switches> Tbh as long as your Bios can see the full size and you don't run Windows you can just use GPT with a small "boot" partition at the start of the disk flagged as "bios_grub"
[09:55] <MooDoo> Switches: yes i've just read about that.
[09:56] <Switches> Well thats wrong actually it's not really a "boot" partition just a blank space marked for Grub to fake a EFI loader
[09:56] <MooDoo> not sure it's worth the hassle when I can just run a ubuntu vm [in my situation any way]
[09:56] <TwistedLucidity> So it's not the physical drive, but whatever partition you're trying to boot from?
[09:57] <Switches> It depends tbh, if the VM has hardware passthrough and VT-x/VT-d imo it's pretty much worthless trying it on baremetal, if it lacks passthrough and either of the VT's then the performance suffers
[09:58] <Switches> Well kind of TwistedLucidity the problem is the way MS products read a bios with larger than 2tb drives
[09:59]  * TwistedLucidity checks channel
[09:59] <Switches> or well really it's how any OS handles bios calls
[10:01] <Switches> an original "bios" normally can't handle disks larger than 2tb, so the bios manufacturers kinda use a "firmware" fix for it to see them, that causes issues with MBR on the disks and things go all weird arse
[10:01] <MooDoo> stupid old computers lol
[10:01] <Switches> :D
[10:01] <Switches> That too MooDoo
[10:02] <MooDoo> I have a dell 2950 with 6 disks that's a 4.5TB raid 5 might have a play about
[10:02] <davmor2> MooDoo: Stooopid sysadmins not partitioning I blame :P
[10:03] <MooDoo> davmor2: I'll just raid 1 2 x drives and then raid 5 the rest ;) lol
[10:09] <MooDoo> :)
[10:09] <popey> Myrtti: TIL: sudo purge-old-kernels
[10:09] <Myrtti> ooh.
[10:10] <Myrtti> ah, part of byobu
[10:40] <SuperMatt> ok, maybe changing the date on my PC forward a couple of years was a bad idea...
[10:40] <SuperMatt> must only do that sort of thing in vms
[10:40] <MooDoo> lol
[10:41] <Switches> xD
[10:41] <SuperMatt> every thing I was using suddenly broke because certs were no longer valid
[10:41] <Myrtti> ahhahahhahaha I just purged kernels out and now I have to do it again
[10:41] <Myrtti> sweet jebus
[10:41] <Myrtti> ok, I'll reboot again then
[10:41] <Switches> Just don't put 2038 in.. the world will end!
[10:41] <SuperMatt> hah
[11:17] <ali1234> hmm... i never realised there's so much meat for sale on ebay
[11:17] <ali1234> i wonder how they deliver it
[11:20] <zmoylan-pi> by general post... even the toughest steak is very tender after that... :-)
[11:26] <zmoylan-pi> i've heard a few americans describing getting packages packed with dry ice
[11:26] <popey> I have had meat delivered
[11:27] <popey> in a cardboard box with loads of packing and ice blocks.
[11:27] <popey> it's rated to stay frozen for 24 hours on the doorstep
[11:27] <zmoylan-pi> of course if it's cured meat an air tight package with nitrogren amto will do the trick
[11:29] <zmoylan-pi> and hawaii gets through a lot of spam as it doesn't need any refrigeration iirc
[11:30] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:31] <popey> yo
[11:31] <bigcalm> Is it September yet?
[11:32] <bigcalm> popey: I'm thinking of getting a Volvo V40 D2 in a few years. What's your experience of Volvo been over time?
[11:33] <zmoylan-pi> boxy but good? :-P
[11:34] <popey> I loved mine
[11:34] <popey> Not sure I'd buy a diesel these days
[11:36] <bigcalm> zmoylan-pi: Volvo - they're boxy but safe
[11:36] <bigcalm> Yes, I've been wondering about petrol vs diesel now
[11:36] <popey> getting rid of my volvo, i never use it
[11:36] <bigcalm> All of my cars have been diesel
[11:36] <popey> I'd quite like an electric car
[11:37] <bigcalm> I'd love an electric car, but my purse would not
[11:37] <zmoylan-pi> the charging points at nearby tesco and shopping centre are often in use
[11:41] <zmoylan-pi> and i have noticed i have to listen more carefully at junctions as leccy cars are much more silent as they approach
[11:43] <bigcalm> popey: have you experienced this with your pebble time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3WJ8zE3A4s (excuse the terrible video, it was late and dark)
[11:43] <popey> is it maps updating?
[11:43] <Myrtti> Volvo's arent' that boxy anymore
[11:43] <bigcalm> Yes
[11:43] <popey> yes, i saw it and made a similar video a year or more ago
[11:43] <bigcalm> Ah
[11:43] <popey> it's bonkers
[11:46]  * Switches grumbles under breath, people are stupid
[11:48] <Switches> Can anyone tell me why people think MS have bought Canonical because of the whole Ubuntu on Windows stuff?..
[11:49] <foobarry> "people"?
[11:50] <zmoylan-pi> ms makes lots of deals with lots of companies... and for most of those companies it seems that later they end up with smelly end of the stick.
[11:50] <Switches> Well so far I've seen it on G+, Twitter and a few other places posted about..
[11:50] <MooDoo> Switches: it's been going about for years,
[11:51] <MooDoo> Switches: popey has been a secret MS employee for ages ;)
[11:51] <Switches> I know it just kinda gets to a point where you see it and just cba explaining to people that MS and Canonical are working "together"!
[11:52] <foobarry> ah, magically a piromoni email appears
[11:52] <foobarry> ali1234 theory seems correct. they either oversold or screwed up on sat
[11:52] <MooDoo> Switches: feed on this - http://techaeris.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Microsoft_Canonical.jpg ;)
[11:52] <Switches> The other thing that gets me is Canonical are in the "wrong" for working with MS, yet Redhat and Novell should be the "poster boys" for working with MS >.<
[11:53] <ali1234> nobody should ever work with MS
[11:53] <Switches> rofl
[11:53] <Switches> Why?
[11:53] <MooDoo> at the end of the day it's not a bad thing, what ever makes things better is always good
[11:53] <ali1234> can you name a company that has ever benefitted from a strategic partnership with MS?
[11:53] <zmoylan-pi> stac, sendo worked with ms and ended up suing and winning against ms but are now still dead
[11:53] <foobarry> its never better for the other party
[11:53] <MooDoo> bash on windows is a fantastic idea and works quite well
[11:53]  * Switches was an oem for MS for 15 years, it had its ups and downs but made me and my company money..
[11:53] <foobarry> its just a project by one guy
[11:53] <foobarry> rather than a company collab
[11:54] <ali1234> that's not a strategic partnership... that's you selling MS products
[11:54] <MooDoo> i'd also like to see it the other way around as well, windows on ubuntu running windows apps natively from the os not using wine etc
[11:54] <ali1234> canonical aren't in that business
[11:55] <ali1234> nokia were though... went great
[11:56] <zmoylan-pi> nokia actually may have done better than ms from that deal.. a rare instance
[11:57] <Switches> MooDoo: That would be a good thing
[11:57] <ali1234> considering that the deal was done only to eliminate nokia as a competitor and ended when microsoft decided they didn't want to be in that market any more... no
[11:58] <Switches> Guess that's one way to look at it
[11:59] <SuperMatt> https://blog.mozilla.org/tanvi/2016/06/16/contextual-identities-on-the-web/ - oh man, this is going to be awesome. I means I can be signed out of facebook, amazon, google, etc for most of my browsing, but then I can select the personal context for certain tabs, and they'll be logged in
[11:59] <foobarry> http://boingboing.net/2016/06/15/intel-x86-processors-ship-with.html
[11:59] <foobarry> had problems due to AMT already
[11:59] <zmoylan-pi> but now nokia has bought alcatel and a number of wearable companies and looks set to re-enter the market
[11:59] <foobarry> windows machines in sleep state were flooding our 1Gb network due to AMT somehow
[12:01] <Switches> Yay more stuff on Intel ME :p
[12:01] <ali1234> alcatel phones are terrible
[12:01] <foobarry> SuperMatt: poor choice of name though: containers
[12:01] <foobarry> i picture a phone from the 90s when i hear alcatel
[12:02] <ali1234> as for wearables... there's certainly a lot of room in that market... but if they just make another rubbish fitness band or overpriced smartwatch then they are toast
[12:02] <zmoylan-pi> i have one ali1234 cheap and nasty software, the hardware isn't bad
[12:02] <Switches> Don't worry before long Intel and Redhat will have everything under their control muhahaha :p
[12:02] <SuperMatt> foobarry: sure, but it helps techs quickly understand what's happening
[12:08] <Switches> foobarry: That looks to be a really interesting read, had a scan over it will read it properly later (pocketed) lol
[12:59] <foobarry> COME ON ENGLAND!
[13:00] <foobarry> problem with working in IT is lack of enthusiasm for football among colleagues
[13:01] <daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/16/lester_haines_obituary/ :(
[13:02] <popey> my tv stream is so bad, the football looks like FIFA 2010
[13:04] <MooDoo> I've got it open on a tab in the background, if it gets exciting i'll switch to it lol
[13:04] <foobarry> iplayer?
[13:04] <foobarry> mine seems fine
[13:05] <foobarry> flash performance sucks a bit
[13:06] <popey> tvcatchup
[13:08] <foobarry> iplayer seems fine here
[13:11] <MooDoo> ah nice to england in can't finish mode again lol
[13:11] <foobarry> sterling is lame
[13:14] <DJones_> Sheesh, an MP has been shot & stabbed in yorkshire
[13:15] <MooDoo> blimey
[13:16] <daftykins> :/
[13:16] <zmoylan-pi> that won't affect the brexit vote in any way... :-/
[13:17] <daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304
[13:17] <MooDoo> no it won't just wondering what it was all abou
[13:25] <popey> http://imgur.com/a/xPoW8  top one tvcatchup, bottom is iplayer
[13:25] <diplo> Guys, I've got a customer who wants to backup to a usbdrive every minute of pdf files that their system has created, I need to check drives are mounted or not because staff remove other drives that are plugged in, this is a 1tb drive so not flash, I was just wondering whether it causes damage to drives constantly mounting / unmounting them ?
[13:26] <diplo> Linux box, with a ntfs usb drive
[13:29] <daftykins> oh you'll have some horrible permissions woes there i'd bet, using NTFS on the external
[13:30] <daftykins> that idea doesn't sound so nice to me, what volume of PDFs are we talking?
[13:30] <diplo> Thousands
[13:30] <diplo> Not had any perm issues on the backup
[13:31] <diplo> More worried about the drive being mounted/unmounted quite often for wear and tear
[13:31] <diplo> As in writing to the drive I mean, not keeping the permissions
[13:32] <daftykins> it's a disk and mounting is just reading, can't see any issues unless the machine and power supply to this drive aren't UPS'd
[13:32] <diplo> Very hard work customer who basically wants any paper invoice he creates on his counter create a pdf and sync it to a usb device every minute in case of issues with anything
[13:33] <diplo> He's quite a high maintenance customer, so bosses rather we just do what he asks than try to argue
[13:34] <daftykins> well, it won't be a very good backup if the power goes :>
[13:34] <daftykins> if the initial copy is on a single disk i'd have more issues with that
[13:35] <ali1234> diplo: mount/unmount shouldn't do anything... the drive doesn't know if it's mounted after all
[13:36] <daftykins> unless it were uncleanly unmounted, you get that error message about NTFS ones no?
[13:36] <ali1234> yeah
[13:36] <ali1234> it might even refuse to mount with NTFS if it is not clean
[13:38] <diplo> yeah it does, basically tried a less good solution with fstab before
[13:39] <diplo> It is supposed to stay plugged in and use the same mount point, but the guys staff are unplugging it i'm sure, so it tries remounting as a different drive sde at the same path and fails because its already mounted ( although its not )
[13:39] <diplo> I've got lots of ways around it, just wanted to check me unmounting it constantly wouldn't do any issues
[13:39] <SuperMatt> Shouldn't do
[13:43] <daftykins> diplo: did you use /dev/sdx or UUID?
[13:43] <daftykins> i guess being in fstab would get ignored if someone removed it though
[13:44] <diplo> I'm using uuid now
[13:44] <popey> oops
[13:45] <daftykins> honestly it should just never be touched and be UPS'd, the host and this drive
[13:45] <daftykins> if that can't be handled, then this customer needs to handle his own staff
[13:45] <daftykins> hmm naughty IPs trying to hit the Austrian lad i know again - 195.2.252.67 - - [16/Jun/2016:15:40:11 +0200] "POST /xmlrpc.php HTTP/1.0" 200 581 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible: MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0)"
[13:45] <daftykins> wordpress abusers
[13:47] <diplo> Sorry, lost internet
[13:48] <diplo> Yep, had this discussion with the boss, basically he says if you agree with what the customer says he disagrees with what he formely said and if you disagree with him its all out war
[13:48] <diplo> They've tried dropping him and hes threatened to take him to courts
[13:48] <diplo> PITA :/
[13:49] <daftykins> that doesn't sound like the world i live in XD
[13:49] <zmoylan-pi> that's one way to build customer relationship....
[13:50] <daftykins> i heard a great line yesterday, "if 10% of your customers are causing 90% of the trouble, that's ok if they're bringing you 90% of your profits"
[13:50] <daftykins> if not, bye bye
[13:52] <zmoylan-pi> one of the weirdest/toughest programmes i wrote was for a service based database called troublesome customers... initially it was simply to look for on site callouts within last 30 days, covered v uncovered. but every customer had a difference idea of what a troublesome customer was
[13:54] <daftykins> would you tend to charge for follow up support calls, even if they were resolved within 5 minutes?
[13:56] <zmoylan-pi> the company worked on support contracts which were fairly liberal in terms of accomodating the customer... 99% of calls were covered by support contract
[13:57] <zmoylan-pi> they'd pretty much have to be standing over the smouldering pc with a lump hammer saying 'i'm really glad i killed the bloody thing' before we'd charge them :-)
[13:57] <daftykins> heh
[13:58] <zmoylan-pi> sometimes even then...
[14:50] <popey> *applause*
[14:55] <bigcalm> There's a lot of shouting happening outside the office window
[14:56] <popey> haha
[14:56] <davmor2> bigcalm: 2-1 to England
[14:56] <MooDoo> we did a russia
[14:57] <zmoylan-pi> invaded poland?
[14:57] <MooDoo> no silly scored in injury time
[15:02] <foobarry> my iplayer got paused somehow and we were watching 5 mins delayed
[15:08] <diplo> Spoilers!!!!!!!!!
[15:08] <diplo> :)
[15:23] <daftykins> when i fire up my baseball streams, i'm always 20 seconds behind mates in the US :( they see it all happen and comment before!
[15:23] <daftykins> no the plus side, it's a good way to make you pay attention...
[16:19] <Myrtti> well.
[16:21] <daftykins> https://roketman.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/well_well_well.jpg
[16:21] <Myrtti> she died ;__;
[16:22] <daftykins> who?
[16:22] <Myrtti> the shot MP
[16:22] <daftykins> omw
[16:22] <daftykins> any details yet?
[16:24] <Myrtti> I suppose.
[16:25] <Myrtti> BBC News is on it quite well
[16:26] <Myrtti> :-|
[16:29] <bashrc> shocked middle class sensibilities
[16:30] <bashrc> was there a motive?
[16:30] <daftykins> no info yet it would seem
[16:30] <daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-leeds-36543180
[16:30] <daftykins> updates there
[16:31] <bashrc> it's sad when people become victims of violence. There's a lot of it about, and most of it doesn't get onto the BBC news.
[16:33] <daftykins> weird for a gun crime to crop up in England, or at least it is to me
[16:36] <Newman101> Good grief... MP listening her constituents murdered. This is beyond belief.
[16:36] <zmoylan-1i> would it make such big news if the victim wasn't an mp?
[16:37] <daftykins> most likely not
[16:38] <Azelphur> Tempted to buy a surface 3 and put Linux on it, anyone have any recommendations around that?
[16:38] <Azelphur> I like that it has a long battery life and supports USB charging, yet can run a full OS
[16:39] <daftykins> not sure about the 3, but the pro 4 a client has suffers from that sleep bug and so i'm advising everyone avoid it like the plague
[16:39] <daftykins> tempting to say it could be a win10 thing, but the fact they keep trying to fix it with firmware updates says otherwise o0
[16:43] <Newman101> Dualboot might be an option but if you run solely Linux you won't get firmware updates because they are distributed through Windows updates.
[16:50] <zmoylan-pi> what are the surface keyboards like.  they seem very... flat looking with little travel
[16:51] <Newman101> To put it mildly, problematic.
[16:51] <Newman101> The keyboard stops responding occasionally.
[16:52] <daftykins> the keys on the type cover for the surface 4 seem very nice, i set one of those up - though £104.99 at Gatwick airport for one, it better be
[16:53] <daftykins> Newman101: which model is that?
[16:54] <Newman101> daftykins: Surface Pro 3.
[16:55] <Newman101> daftykins: usually the problem is solved by shutting down, holding down the volume up + power, then powering the surface again.
[16:55] <daftykins> mmm i found the key travel was a bit better on the newer type cover
[16:58] <Newman101> Also, auto-rotate tends to stop working occasionally which is VERY annoying.
[17:26] <Azelphur> Newman101: ah, so basically I shouldn't buy a surface
[17:26] <Azelphur> that's a shame, I wanted something long life and microusb charging
[17:28] <popey> chromebook
[17:29] <Azelphur> popey: is there an x86 chromebook with usb charging?
[17:31] <brmbrmcar> Chromebook?
[17:31] <brmbrmcar> hehehe
[17:47] <popey> Azelphur: the hp ones are I think
[19:19] <daftykins> *gasp* http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/16/adobe_36_flash_flaws/
[19:19] <daftykins> ;)
[19:19] <popey> NO WAI
[19:20] <daftykins> ikr!
[21:54] <zleap> anyone had issues with the 16.04 mini iso file,  just tried to write to a external usb disk and it just shows up blank
[22:24] <maps> hola
[22:24] <maps> que pasa