| Unit193 | infinity: Looking forward to the American election too, eh? | 00:08 |
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| teward | for my own reference, if I update a package in the repositories that another relies on, and the package that relies on mine depends on it, how would a rebuild be issued, or what would be the most sensible way to approach that? Hypothetically. | 01:26 |
| infinity | teward: Why would a rebuild be necessary? | 01:27 |
| infinity | teward: Are you talking an SONAME bump in a library, or similar? | 01:27 |
| infinity | teward: Anyhow, if there's a library transition in play, you do something like "pull-lp-source foo && cd foo-* && dch -R", enter a changelog entry like "Rebuild for the libbar transition.", and upload. | 01:29 |
| infinity | teward: But first, I'm curious about specifics, rather than hypotheticals. We don't rebuild rdeps unless there's a reason. | 01:30 |
| teward | infinity: with regards to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-June/016654.html, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2016-June/007360.html, and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2016-June/007361.html | 01:30 |
| teward | infinity: basically, it's on the discusison list - if there is a package with a .so dynamic module built against 1.10.1 and we release 1.10.2 for bugfix/security reasons, a package with the .so dynamic module would need a rebuild | 01:31 |
| teward | reading up on the thread may make the reasoning more clear? | 01:32 |
| teward | more or less to try and understand weird edge cases | 01:32 |
| teward | granted, i've not yet merged in Debian's dynamic module handling yet, which might be a pre-req | 01:33 |
| teward | rbasak: fyi ^ | 01:33 |
| infinity | teward: Having the server ABI tied to version is madness. | 01:33 |
| teward | I told nginx upstream their dynamic modules approach doesn't work well in downstreams | 01:34 |
| infinity | teward: But, if we're stuck with that for now, then any rdeps in the archive would need a rebuild on upgrade, yes. And they better have proper dependencies based on some nginx-signature-12345 provides or something. | 01:35 |
| teward | got a reply "Yeah we know, we'll work on it but it's not a short-term goal" | 01:35 |
| infinity | teward: It's not hard to fix. All they need is an ABI tracker that bumps signature if and only if the ABI breaks. Which means some rebuilds, but not on every version. | 01:35 |
| infinity | (This is basically the PHP approach) | 01:35 |
| infinity | teward: Anyhow, does nginx actually have rdeps in the archive right now? | 01:36 |
| teward | infinity: for now, no. come next LTS, probably. | 01:36 |
| teward | or sooner, if people start putting things into Debian for third-party modules | 01:36 |
| infinity | So, let's solve this properly before then. For both Debian and Ubuntu. | 01:36 |
| infinity | Modules need to have a specific exported ABI to depend on, so they don't have to depend on nginx (>> foo), nginx (<< bar) | nginx-foo (<< foo) ... | 01:37 |
| infinity | You can see how that gets ugly quickly. | 01:37 |
| teward | indeed | 01:37 |
| teward | I think this is something that should be deferred until nginx can fix things? | 01:37 |
| teward | because the way they've got things done, at least AIUI, there's no ABI-based handling | 01:37 |
| infinity | You can fake one. | 01:38 |
| teward | infinity: guidance on that would be appreciated | 01:38 |
| infinity | Remind me when it's not... Today. | 01:38 |
| teward | works for me :) | 01:38 |
| * teward looks back at the nagios page saying all his Ubuntu Server VMs are down, and figures he should probably fix them instead of worrying about nginx :P | 01:39 | |
| teward | (at least for right now) | 01:39 |
| infinity | teward: As for upstream, they need to track ABI, but what they do with that information is another question. They *could* export an ABI define somewhere, that people could test against. Or, they could go the sane route, and promise ABI stability in a major.minor (or even just major) series. | 01:40 |
| infinity | teward: The latter would be much better, but it means checking for ABI breaks in upstream commits and blocking them or backing them out of people oops. | 01:41 |
| infinity | s/of people/if people/ | 01:41 |
| teward | infinity: I think ABI breakage is more prone in mainline (1.9.x as an example) than 1.10.x which basically doesn't change once released | 01:41 |
| infinity | Well, "basically doesn't change" isn't a promise. ;) | 01:41 |
| teward | except for bug fixes, and I think that nginx is smart enough to make notices about it | 01:41 |
| teward | well, with dynamic modules being a 'new' thing with 1.9.x, 1.10.x, I think they'd put "This may break third party dynamic modules" over the lists i'm on | 01:42 |
| teward | and that'd prompt the need to poke rebuilds or 'fake' an ABI change | 01:43 |
| infinity | Not if the ABI signature checked at load time is based on the version, they won't. :P | 01:43 |
| * teward yawns | 01:43 | |
| infinity | Cause, in their mind, they break modules regardless. | 01:43 |
| teward | infinity: I get what you're saying, i'm basically dead here. | 01:43 |
| infinity | Anyhow. Another time. | 01:43 |
| teward | um, clarify "they" | 01:43 |
| teward | there's nginx upstream, Google PageSpeed upstream, and us :p | 01:43 |
| infinity | They, upstream. They're not going to inform you if a change may break modules, because their "ABI" breaks on every version change anyway. | 01:44 |
| teward | (there's two upstreams) | 01:44 |
| infinity | nginx upstream. :P | 01:44 |
| teward | :P | 01:44 |
| teward | well | 01:44 |
| teward | i have an evil painful workflow that I currently do for a few home-grown packages which depend on others | 01:44 |
| teward | basically a shell script that builds one, pulls in for the build env on a separate package, and tests. | 01:45 |
| teward | but eh | 01:45 |
| infinity | We can talk more later. I have a hot date with a shawarma. | 01:45 |
| teward | could potentially adapt, but CBA to bother now | 01:45 |
| teward | heheheh, enjoy infinity | 01:45 |
| teward | i'm going to go find coffee... | 01:45 |
| teward | and fix my servers... (I think the hypervisor powercycled...) | 01:45 |
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